THE UNSEEN TRAP OF OUR LEADERSHIP CRISIS

Do you really think Americans are in the business of helping people? The Americans only care about one thing. America and Americans first. The American people. American interests. Jude Bella, with over 200,000 YouTube subscribers, an independent filmmaker and investigative journalist whose obsessive, months-long deep dives into African history, geopolitics, and corruption have built him a reputation as one of the most rigorous and cinematic storytellers covering the continent today.

We are having a case where even youth are saying whatever it is they want to steal, let them come. I'm tired of people dying.

If you've not experienced this before, you would think the people calling for the intervention of the Americans, you think they are foolish. I don't think they are foolish.

Yeah.

Um, and like you rightly said, pain can drive people to do anything just to come out of this.

Yeah.

Horrible situation. But What we are saying is that their pain is real and we understand the pain. We feel it. They are our country people. But at the same time, we shouldn't hand over our home to someone we know will destroy it. Our leaders are not doing well. They don't care about the security of the people they are leading.

Yep.

People dying have become mere statistics to them. This same thing will repeat whoever is placed in power by the Americans.

Do you think poverty has been weaponized to make people so weak, hence the reason why the government don't respect them?

Yes, we did an episode in, um, Nasarawa axis, and we spoke to some people there. While working on the streets, I saw firsthand how people were practically struggling to eat, that's for food, to survive. For such people My question is, if a politician comes around and offers them just ₦5,000 to do anything for them—

Yeah.

How do you prevent them from doing that? The northern part of Nigeria has the highest number of school dropouts, or people that haven't even been to school before. Poverty is not only being weaponized, the Nigerian leaders, the Nigerian elites, they know that they need to keep people poor for them to maintain their power. So it is like we have an industry, an economy of poverty.

You're saying that as long as there's poverty, people can be weaponized? Yes. And poverty will create cheap soldiers?

Yes.

That can be used to fight any kind of war?

Religious?

Yes.

Or socioeconomic war?

Yes.

Do you think that's what is happening in the North? It is.

Insecurity in Nigeria is now more economic than ideological.

Welcome you to the Classified Podcast. Um, myself and my team, we've been working so hard behind the scenes to get different intellectual conversations across to you. We know that this Conversations will form the basis for what will change our world as we know it, because words form narratives. Narratives shape culture. And this is the reason why I want to invite you to join me on this journey, not just as one who is going to view this today.

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Thank you. You're someone that doesn't need introduction, particularly for those who are interested in geopolitical conversations and matters around Africa and even Nigeria. Your voice has been loud over the past few years. So when I look at someone like you, one of the first questions that comes to my mind is, why did you start this conversation?

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you.

Um, I've also followed your work, and I like it a lot. Thank you. Um, the way you came into mainstream media was something we really appreciate. Those short videos, yeah, telling us things that, yeah, people were Scared to. Yeah, it was quite interesting.

Amazing.

Yeah, um, talking about why I decided to get into these conversations that I'm pushing online, it has to do first of all with accountability. Yeah, yeah, justice, accountability, these are two things that are very important to me. And, um, based on my personal experience with a law enforcement agency in Nigeria, the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, I decided to get involved and see if we can support these conversations to push the authorities to hold leaders accountable.

Yeah.

And we Nigerians also have to fulfill our civic duties, which is bringing these conversations to the fore, because it's more than just going out to vote for leaders. We need to hold those leaders accountable. Because at the end of the day, a politician is an employee of the state, and we are the state. So taxpayers are the ones paying their salaries.

Do they see it so? They don't see it like that. Many of them don't feel they are.

Yeah, because we have turned politicians into sort of celebrities, which is not supposed to be. They are, if anything, they are our employees. So I don't think, um, it's their fault. It's Nigerians' fault. We made it that way. We sort of gave them too much power.

Yeah, but some people feel if you don't give them the power, they'll grab it anyways.

I don't think so. The, the number one problem I see in Nigerian politics and governance issue is that our politicians are not afraid of us. If you put the living fear of God in them, and what I mean by that, you should understand, if they are afraid of the Nigerian people, there is no way a president will carry 5 billion to go and buy yacht when he had just removed fuel subsidy and people are crying for hunger. Crying for rise in transportation cost. There's no way any leader that is afraid of what his people will do will carry money and spend on luxury. You know how much they spent on the renovation of the Vice President's house? Over 21— is it million or billion? I can't really get the exact figures, right? So you spend that amount of money when you are not afraid of the people you are governing. You know that this money can build hospitals for them. It can, um, it can spur the economy if invested in the right sectors. The Nigerian people right now, this is 2026. There is nowhere you go in Nigeria right now, no state you go to that can boast of 4 days of uninterrupted power supply. Not even the federal capital.

4 days?

Yes.

Which state can boast of one?

Not even the federal capital.

No, definitely not.

So if people in the FCT are so comfortable with living 24 hours, sometimes they have light up to like 10 hours, that's all. And then they see the president's son riding in a long motorcade Yeah, the president's son is not even an office, you know that. Yeah, I don't even think we have office of the first lady, do we? There is nothing like that. It doesn't add anything to the Nigerian economy, yet taxpayers' money are being used to fund this luxurious lifestyle because they are not afraid of the Nigerian people.

So if we're going to talk about the fact that they are not afraid of Nigerians We probably won't look at it like this, that maybe Nigerians have lost their respect as far as these guys are concerned.

Yes.

Um, I have this guy that I like so much, um, online, and the father used to be an ex-governor, I think, somewhere, Akwa Ibom. Very cerebral, very sound, amazing man. And one time he was being insulted, okay, and that, um, your father was part of those who destroyed this nation. And he said, when my father was destroying this nation, he used the word, your pathetic parents were there shouting, ogami, throw some change. Do you think poverty has been weaponized to make people so weak, hence the reason why the government don't respect them?

Yes, um, I think, um, was it last year or 2 years ago, um, we did an episode in, um, is it the Nasrawa axis? I don't— I can't remember the name of the community exactly. And we spoke to some people there. While working on the streets, I saw firsthand how people were practically struggling to eat. That's for food to survive.

Daily basis, daily bread.

Yes, yes. We have mothers with 3 children one, an infant sitting in the middle of the road begging for food. So while me and my team, we went into the market to get some things to share for them, before we could open the sack we brought, they rushed us. So for such people, my question is, if a politician comes around and offer them just ₦5,000 to do anything for them.

Yeah.

How do you prevent them from doing that? And then there's another thing here, education. If you go to the north, the northern part of Nigeria has the highest number of school dropouts, or people that haven't even been to school before, right? So when we talk about out-of-school children, it's merely a statistic to some people, right? You don't really understand what it means until you see it.

Yeah.

So take for example, a child is born today to a northern family. I won't call it a family because they are not a family in the sense of the word. So the child is born today and give it a year, He now has a sister, two of them, and they are left with just their mother who has no business, didn't go to school to fend for them. Then she sends two of them to the roadside to beg for food.

Yep.

They stay on that roadside from maybe from the age of 2, 3, 4, they're already there. And that is the life the child knows until he turns 18. Now, that age of 18, he is now a man to fend for himself.

Yeah.

He has never been to school.

Yeah.

All he knows is begging.

Yeah.

Now someone comes and say, take this weapon, let's stand on this road. Some people will pass, will collect things from them and sell and make more money. Isn't that going to be enticing to him?

Yeah.

Now imagine this. This someone that is coming now is a politician driving a car they had never seen before.

Yeah.

And then the politician comes with armed policemen.

Yeah.

And long motorcade. Yeah. And tells them all they needed to do was to make sure in the coming election he wins the office. So poverty is not only being weaponized, The Nigerian leaders, the Nigerian elites, they know that they need to keep people poor for them to maintain their power. So it is like we have an industry, an economy of poverty.

So it's like we have— we are like— it's an industry.

Yes.

So if I understand your theory, you're saying that as long as there's poverty, people can be weaponized? Yes. And poverty will create cheap soldiers. Yes, that can be used to fight any kind of war, religious or socioeconomic war.

Yes.

Do you think that's what is happening in the north?

It is, it is. Insecurity in Nigeria is now, um, more economic than ideological. It is more economic than ideological. So if you look at, um, how Boko Haram recruits— now I'm not, I'm not going to go into so much detail because this is security we are discussing now.

Yeah.

But according to research we've carried out over the years, the Boko Haram, when they come to recruit, they don't just attack any community. They attack communities that they have lived in, they have studied, and they see the lack of governance, the lack of presence of any means of government agency. Some of these people don't even have police, um, do I call it area commands or whatever? There's no presence of any sort of area council, no leadership. You know, now all we have— before now, I think during the time of Obasanjo, we used to have, um, local government chairman.

Yeah.

Um, council wards, councillors and all that. Councillors. Now you go to communities in the north, there is nothing like that.

Have you lived in the north before? No. Okay, I grew up there, so I understand what you're saying.

Okay. I think my father served there for a year. I stayed there a few weeks. Yeah, but you go to communities like that that have no presence of the government, then these people coming, you know, there are communities right now that Boko Haram collect taxes from.

Oh, definitely, yeah.

They make laws for these people.

Oh, yes.

So when they came in first time, they started teaching them, right? They came in the name of teaching them the religion. And then it became something in form of a school. So they started recruiting young people, radicalize them. Yes. And then they started offering stipends, money. And these people are poor. Remember the analogy I gave you earlier? For a child that has known nothing but begging on the streets, now you have a group coming to keep them together as a community, teaching them, offering them stipends, and then It progresses to giving them arms. Now they are being radicalized, carrying out all sorts of crime. And mind you, Boko Haram is not just in the business of bombing places. No, they sell drugs. They are involved in arm trafficking, human trafficking, even this illegal gold mining that we hear about. I saw reports, was it early this month or late last month that the government is naming Chinese companies as part of, um, people sponsoring illegal mining. If they go to a community like one in the north now and you see foreigners offering these people money, people are just hustling to survive.

Just to survive. I saw a report that there's been over— they've been able to mine over $3 billion worth of gold. In a particular northern community between 2019 and 2025?

It should be more. That's the UN reported. That is underreported.

That's underreported.

Yes.

You believe that in the areas that we have extreme insecurity, that there are mining activities going on?

Yes, it is the main reason.

You believe it's the main reason why it is happening?

It is the main reason. Now, when this illegal mining started, I think it was post-2008 financial crisis.

Yeah.

When gold started picking up again.

Yes.

There was even an incident, I think around 2013, 2014, that happened in Zamfara of lead poisoning. We did a video about it 2 weeks ago, right?

Was it related to water?

No, gold mining. Okay. So this community, they were involved in this artisanal mining. But then the gold in Zamfara, that particular community, has high concentrate of lead. Lead is poisonous to the human body. Yeah. But these people, they don't know anything. So they just brought this gold sand to their compound, to their living quarters, and they were using their bare hands, using locally fabricated tools, their shovels, In fact, some were using grind— local grinding machine. They used to do their normal grinding of food and to process these things. So the lead now mixed with their food. Yeah. And children died. I think close to 400 children died of lead poisoning, the highest in record in human history at the time. And then when this happened, Doctors Without Borders were the ones that discovered it and remediation efforts were carried out. But after this incident happened, already we had cases of Boko Haram at that time, 2014, right? Yes. These armed groups now discover that this land that they are fighting people, killing people over, is rich with gold. So their attention switched. From mere kidnapping people and killing people into securing this land.

So are you saying that Boko Haram started like a religious ideology, then moved to economical ideology?

Boko Haram began— we have factions now.

Yes.

So yeah, it began, it began as a religious identity. And you believe— yes, that is down back, back in 2002. And but now it's very much different.

It's one different—

it's very much different. We have factions, we have the ISWAP and the the original Boko Haram.

Yes.

All of them, in fact, as late last year slash early this year, they were fighting themselves.

Oh yes, they were.

But yes, they still kill people. Yes, there are so many interests involved. It's not just one thing, but the land, the places that they are carrying out their attacks, they are merely pursuing people away from mineral-rich regions. Also, you need to know that When we talk about gold, Nigerians only know about gold mining, gold mining. Nigeria is very rich in lithium. Oh yes, lithium. Yes, and it is part of the minerals powering this insecurity crisis. The government is aware of this, they cannot deny.

And you believe that Western countries are, of course, in collaboration with China?

Not in collaboration.

Chinese separately doing their stuff?

Yes. And the reason for this is, you know, China right now controls the rare earth minerals.

Oh yes, they do.

Because of this, the, the West is trying to build an alternative to China because they cannot have themselves depend on China for rare earths. And why? Because of something called semiconductors. Yes, they are needed for your warplanes, everything.

In fact, I heard a Chinese, one of the leader said something, you know. Um, he said when America was going to bomb Iran with the B-2 bomber to bomb their nuclear sites, um, he said they thought that nobody could see the plane because that's the idea of the B-2 bomber. You can't detect it in the radar.

Okay.

He said we detected it. We even listened to the conversations in the cockpit. And usually that happens when the red materials that they use also in the production, according to Americans, when it is not pure enough.

Okay.

And the reason why China controls it, because they are the ones that can purify to the level needed, needed for, um, you know, warheads and some of those stuff and all that. And when we look at this, Africa looks like, um, a bowl of cake that every part of the world is eating from except Africa itself.

Except Africa.

Do you think Africa has friends?

No, we don't.

But America is coming to help us.

Sorry, I'm not laughing at this question, but do you really think Americans are in the business of helping people?

I don't know.

Americans, one, they are not Father Christmas. In fact, they will tell you it is in their— in the language of their foreign policy.

But Trump is a Christian.

Does it matter?

It needs to help Christians.

Okay, now here's the thing. Trump is, um, how do I put this? Okay, let me leave the Trump topic first. I'll get to that.

Okay.

If you look at the American foreign policy, yeah, it is stated there in black and white, yes, that it is in the interest of the American people. American interest.

Yes.

Every president Whether Democrats or Republican, they live with this.

Yes.

If they deviate from American interest, they will be impeached.

Yeah.

So whether Trump is Christian or Muslim or pagan or Jewish, it doesn't matter. If Trump is coming to Nigeria to do anything, it is for the American interest. It is not to help.

But now I want to say something quite honestly, and these are some of the reviews I've gotten.

Okay.

Many Nigerians are saying, and I think it is concerning and we really have to look at it, okay, that if you guys are saying that Americans coming to, they are not having good interest of Nigerians in their heart, how about the leaders we've had all the years? If you say America are going to come steal some of our resources People are dying. What about the leaders that we have? They've stolen more from us. So let them come. If they're going to control the entire nation, let them control the entire nation. If we'll be safe. What do you say to those kind of statements?

Nigeria will not be safe. And I'm not saying this out of sentiments. In fact, most of these people saying this thing don't even know Trump. I followed Trump right from 20— 2015. When he declared for presidency first time. Yeah, I was a strong Trump supporter.

Oh wow.

Yes. So I have followed his political journey, right? Trump was loved by the Democrats when he was not a politician. So let's not even get into the Trump versus Democrats arguments. Yeah, Trump is an American.

Yeah.

What I want Nigerians to understand is something called sovereignty, right? No, nobody should have the right to unilaterally decide to come into Nigeria to help Nigeria fight its battles. Nigeria is a country, except you are now saying that Nigeria is now a vassal state. Are we?

No, we're not.

Aha. So if Trump decides to come in today, boots on the ground, I will remind people what Americans have done in all the places they have had boots on the ground. None of those countries were left better off.

Afghanistan, Iraq. Okay, no, we're not left better off. I know what you're saying.

Okay.

Yes.

The US spent, is it $2 trillion, $2 trillion in 20 years to remove the Taliban and replace them with the Taliban.

ISIS.

No, no, before the US got into Afghanistan, yes, the Taliban was in power.

Oh yes.

They spent over $2 trillion for 20 years.

Yes.

And when they left, Who is in power now? The Taliban.

Specifically to the Taliban.

And now they armed them because all the weapons, everything, all the—

they left all their everything for the Taliban. Yes.

What a way to win a war, right? What a way to win a war.

You know about this Syrian, um, he was formerly an ISIS member, I think now he's in Syria. Syrian president who was even notorious for beheading and all those stuff. Now he's a friend of America.

So if Shekau were to be alive, and I'm saying this with all seriousness for Nigerians to know what is happening, if Shekau were to be alive, or whoever is heading the Boko Haram factions now, if America decides that the Nigerian government is no longer aligning with their interests, they will come in, deliver Nigeria from the Nigerian government, and hand him over to Shekau. That is how America operates.

So you are not— but you are not buying that, that they're coming and they have any help to offer?

We need to keep Americans far away from ourselves.

Now, we talking about that, probably you must have heard my opinion around that season. It was quite loud and everywhere. Um, yeah, um, let me ask this very important question. I believe one of the things that has controlled us as a people in Nigeria is pain. The fact that our own people have not done so well when it comes to leading us. People have died, people are suffering. The political class have no mercy for the people, and it has pushed the people to say without thinking about the consequences that if we have suffered this much from the hands of our people, we don't mind being recolonized again. Now, if we are going to speak to this kind of situation, we really honestly, and this is what I have learnt, have to also look at the pain of these people and the fact that pain can make people speak from misinformation. And how do you want to start helping these people who are championing conversations like this from this depth of pain they felt from their own people? They were not around when their fathers were colonized, so they probably don't understand the depth of what those ones went through. But now this is the reality on ground. We are having a case where even youth are saying, whatever it is they want to steal, let them come. We're tired of people dying. And if we look at it, if we see— we saw what happened in Jos, the mother holding her son. She will pay any amount for that boy to come back alive. Recently I saw the video of a man who lost his pregnant wife, I think the father, and about 4 children in one night. So when we look at all that under the leadership of our people, when you have a case where the president went to Jos but stayed at the airport and would not even get inside, and, um, the governor of Plateau State will not come down from his armored truck to address the people, this is painful. To see and to watch. It makes the matters on ground difficult to meddle into without considering the emotions of the people and how they feel. How exactly can we help Nigerians at this point?

Well, um, to be very honest with you, when I saw that video of that woman, it broke my heart. If you've not experienced this before, You, you would think the people calling for the intervention of the Americans, you think they are foolish. I don't think they are foolish. Yeah. And like you rightly said, pain can drive people to do anything just to come out of this horrible situation. And I think it was 2017 when I was living in Benue. We woke up to sounds of gunshots and it lasted for close to an hour. And then it was in that year that Buhari was— was it Buhari? Yeah, he came to bury— he didn't come. He didn't come. They did mass burial at that time in Benue. The place where the bodies were buried were just behind my plot of land.

We're looking at how many bodies?

I think there were more than 100, more than 100, by Fulani herdsmen.

Is it really Fulani herdsmen, or it's just another faction of Boko Haram?

It's not faction of Boko Haram.

It's Fulani herdsmen?

Yes, Fulani herdsmen, and they are herders with cows. So this community was raided, burned to the ground. I saw pictures, I saw videos of fathers, children. So when I went to that place, I saw the land, I saw the— you could see graves and it, you will feel it, right? So you wish, we cannot just write off the pains of these people. Like that pastor, is it Femi Lazarus? Um, Dachomo? Yes. Okay. His church was burned to the ground, right? Members killed. He has had to perform dozens of mass burials like this. Um, so I understand from the perspective which they are speaking from and inviting the Americans to come and intervene. But what we are saying is that their pain is real. Their pain is real. And we understand the pain. We feel it. They are our country people. But at the same time, we shouldn't hand over our home to someone we know will destroy it. Our roof is on fire. We can put it out. We can put the fire out. And that is why I keep saying that the solution to Nigerian problem is in the hands of Nigerians. If our leaders are not doing well, it's not even if, our leaders are not doing well.

No, they're not, far from it.

They don't care about the security of the people they are leading. Yeah, people dying have become mere statistics to them. This same thing will repeat whoever is placed in power by the Americans. Because if the Americans come to intervene today, Donald Trump will not magically become the president of Nigeria after such an operation.

Nope.

And Can I tell you that the Americans are actually on the ground in Nigeria as we speak?

Yep.

Since they came in, the attacks have increased. This year, in the month of February alone, over 321 people were murdered. 321. Now, I know these numbers because these are stories I work on every day. And somebody asked me on my comment section one time how I'm able to stay sane. If I tell you the things I read every day, I come across every day, some of them I cannot mention because I don't want to get anybody in trouble. It's pathetic. It's worse than what you know. It's worse than what is reported. Over the weekend, the Nigerian military says they conducted an operation to take out Boko Haram camp.

Zio bia. Yes.

The place that was hit is said to be a market that was evacuated 5 years ago. That's the official report. Now there are reports of over 100 dead, 200 dead. The government is never going to tell us.

How many did you think dead?

More than what they are telling us.

You think those are civilians?

Now, we did an investigation for News Central when Donald Trump said that the Americans conducted an airstrike.

Yeah.

In Sokoto. We did the story and I sat with my MD, a very respected man in the media industry, Sakayo de Akintemi, and he watched through the entire video and He told me, Jude, this is, this is a very nice work, but I have issues. I said, what are the issues, sir? And so he started telling me the level we had gone to investigate this, what he was doing. I wasn't aware while I was working on the story, the effort he had made. He sent people with drones to the place, that's to the sites where the airstrike happened. New Central exhausted resources to find the strike. That is, we are looking for airstrike as if it was a needle buried in haystack.

Are you saying there was no strike?

That's not what I'm saying, sir, but we found— we were looking for—

did you, did you see anything? We did not find it, sir, but there were reports of Um, some things that happened, I know, in Kwara, like some buildings being blown off. Things— they were difficult for us.

Yes, the Americans showed us video of a Tomahawk that was released from wherever. What's, uh, New Central? New Central is a media organization, you're aware. We are among the best in Nigeria right now.

I know New Central.

Yes. We try to find it, sir. This is America. America likes to take victory from where they are even losing. They like to celebrate their victories early.

Yeah.

Americans struck ISIS in Nigeria and they released only one video from somewhere where something is coming out and that is all. Did you see the coverage of the airstrike location in CNN? No. Did you see it in MSNBC?

No.

Fox?

No.

Fox News is like Trump propaganda news network.

Yeah. So they didn't broadcast it, but some videos were circulating online.

I don't know where they took those videos, but News Central went there, sir, because I've been to Chukutu.

Um, okay, that was a while back.

Okay.

And funny enough, apart from the girl that was killed— okay, trying to remember her name now. Deborah that was killed for blasphemy, as they said. Sokoto has been quite a relatively peaceful place. And when the US said they struck, the Tomahawk missile, they said to have bombed Sokoto, somewhere in Sokoto. And there's been quite a number of unsolicited defense for the US that they understand where the leaders of the— wherever those guys are, and that's why they have intelligence, and that's why they bombed that place. Do you think people give the US credit more than they deserve?

The thing is, we were— Hollywood is a very good propaganda network.

Oh, someone said it right. All right.

If you— there's no way you watch Hollywood movies and not believe in the absolute strength and superiority of the American.

Okay, someone said it. So you know that the US, like, they send Hollywood forward to prepare the ground for them wherever they're going.

Now let me shock you.

Yes.

It is not just, um, coincidence that every military movie you watch from Hollywood, the US, the Americans win. It is a fact that every movie that portrays the US military must be directed by somebody from the US Ministry of Defense, now the Department of War.

Are you serious? Always directed by someone from there?

It's a fact.

Wow.

So you cannot put out a movie about the US military from Hollywood without the approval of every script from somebody from the Department of War.

Wow.

Have you heard of, um, Operation Mockingbird? No. Okay, it was a CIA operation. That was meant to control the world's media.

When was this?

Um, it was during the Cold War era. So Mockingbird is one of those operations where the CIA has operatives working inside every news organization you can think of, from the Americas down to parts of Africa. Even in Europe. So it is almost like they are feeding stories to people. And also, also, they got their way into the church.

Oh, I mean, don't shout, don't shout.

They got their way into the church. Yeah, into— and not just the church. Now, now, sometimes when I talk about the church, people tend to comment things on my timeline like, why are you always talking about the church? Why not talk about Muslims? And I reply to them, because I am a Christian, I'm not a Muslim. I don't know how they operate in the other side. Yeah, right. But I can also tell you that the Americans funded terror groups as well.

Oh yes, they did.

Right. Al-Qaeda is one of those groups they funded.

The CIA proxy. Yes.

So I'm saying all of this to say that whatever Nigerians believe about the American military strength is not so true, sir.

Is not so true.

Not so true, because if you go to Vietnam—

Oh, they decimated them. They did a lot of things.

They did a lot of things in Vietnam.

Yeah.

They bombed the hell out of them. Yeah.

But look at this, look at this.

Can the Americans say they won the war?

They can't say they won. Look at the tunnel, look at the masterful preparation of the Vietnamese soldiers. But you open something, you must finish. And when you talk about some of the things they're doing, funding also in the church.

Okay, yeah, okay. So, um, I think this was Honduras. Was it Honduras? One of those Latin American countries. There was, um, most of Latin Americans are Catholics. Yeah. So there was a time that the, the head of state, this left-wing, right-wing stuff.

Yeah.

So the CIA was funding, um, a rebellion movement against the state in order to take control. Of whoever was in power. Yeah, right. So this is, um, I can't remember the exact country now, but it's one of those Latin American countries that this operation happened. And not just that, and then you talk about the assassination of J.F. Kennedy. Yeah, come on now.

I mean, I think now it's declassified. Partly.

Parts of it.

By states.

States, right? So this is a country that we know their track record. They can make you believe anything they want because what they are after is power. And can we talk about Iran?

Yeah.

Okay, look at what is happening in Iran right now. The Americans, right from the time of Henry Kissinger, one of their most notorious Secretary of State, yeah. They had known that they needed to control Iran. Yeah, right. But all the presidents from that time, they knew so well not to invade Iran. Yeah, because they know what it will result to. Yeah, even if you win— if you winning here means toppling the government, if you are able to remove—

almost impossible now.

Yes, if you are able to remove the government, all you'll be left with is another Iraq.

Yeah.

Which is ISIS now.

Breeding ground for terrorism again.

Exactly. So it was always going to be diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy. Henry Kissinger loves war. This man lived for war.

Yeah, he did.

But he advised against invasion of Iran. And then we have a Christian-loving president that wants to come to Nigeria and deliver Nigerian Christians. From a religious war, siding with a baby-killing regime.

Netanyahu?

Yes. Also, Nigerians need to know that the Netanyahu they are calling to come and save them is a war criminal.

Yeah.

And not just war crimes now. He was in that— why am I even saying was? He is still under indictment in Israel.

Yeah.

President Trump is pressuring the Israeli government to wipe his slate clean because Bibi is Trump's ally. Trump can go any length for his friends that are quote unquote loyal in his own words. So the moment you turn against Trump, he will do anything to bring you down. So watch out for when Trump and Bibi will clash. This alliance will end.

You feel it will crumble at some point?

They are going to unravel themselves because the war they cannot win. Yeah, it's a war they cannot— okay, now yesterday the peace talks ended in stalemate. No, no, no resolution.

Yeah, for now.

And Trump, that was so eager to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, is now the one going to blockade it.

He sent two, um, naval ships.

Yes. To blockade somewhere. He's— he has been agitating to reopen.

But you know, Trump is trying to get China to come get Venezuela oil.

The whole Venezuela and Iran war is always about China. It's not even about saving the protesters.

They benefit from it. They will benefit from it.

Now here is why it's about China. Yes, Iran controls I think the third largest energy reserve in the world.

Yeah.

We're talking about both crude oil and natural gas.

Natural gas.

So China, China gets its oil from Iran and Venezuela. Yep. Right. And now that China is controlling the rare earth minerals.

Yep. Yeah.

The US need to have some form of leverage over China. Yeah. So if US can now control the oil in Venezuela and the energy in Iran. Iran. It leaves China with only Russia as an ally, someone to negotiate with. Yes. So they're trying to cut China where it hurts. And China, you know of this Belt and Road Initiative, right? The BRI has been able to link the entire world together, and it is something the US cannot just sit by and watch, which is why they launched their Lobito Corridor, something in Africa to get access to the minerals in DR Congo, right? Where Trump celebrated the win that he ended the war, shook hands with Kagame, and only for 2 weeks later, M23 began bombing again. So I'm saying all of this to say that the Americans only care about one thing. American interest. American interest. So the first question I want my Nigerian, um, my fellow Nigerians to ask is, what is the American interest in Nigeria? I am not saying that we should not, um—

will it be worse than what we have at the moment?

It definitely will. It definitely will.

You know what, I've seen a pattern. Okay, and if we are going to predict the future, we're going to go into pattern recognition.

Yes.

And, um, the pattern is that oftentimes when we are out, we just call for the next seemingly good thing. During Jonathan's era, yeah, Buhari was presented like the next best thing after Kik, branded well. It was so emotional.

That brings us back to the propaganda. I'm going to tell you about it.

Oh, interesting. It was so interesting until We started spiraling down.

The Change Movement.

The what?

The Change Movement. APC was all about APC change.

Change, yeah. Started spiraling down, and when that became so bad again, we just want something else. But every time we cry for the next best thing, we always get the next worst thing. Because we Nigerians are amazing people, loving people. But we don't know how to love with our eyes open and hold back and check what are they hiding, what are they smuggling in. Let's talk about the propaganda of that regime. You want to say something about that?

Yeah, so, um, Yar'Adua would have been the best president Nigeria ever had. Yara Dua.

Beyond Abacha?

I think this is a trap. All right, well, Abacha— we are working on a series right now that will take Nigerians through all our 16 presidents. In fact, I'm talking about this for the first time.

Ah, interesting.

That's a good one.

Thank you.

So that series is going to— it's going to shock a lot of people. Because a lot of things you think you know are not true. And in all of this, I must say, I must say that the Nigerian military is not appreciated enough. The Nigerian military is not appreciated enough. These people are fighting multiple wars at the same time. If the US— and I'm saying this— if the US were facing the amount of wars that the Nigerian military is fighting right now, the US government may even collapse. And this collapse I'm talking about is because their citizens will rise up and chase all of them out. The Nigerian military, they have officers stationed in the Southeast. They have people in the Northeast, in the Northwest. It's almost like we are fighting multiple civil wars at the same time. Oh, yes. And the funny part of this is we have very large porous borders. So some of these fighters are not even Nigerians.

They're coming in.

After the Obama adventure that happened in Libya that removed Gaddafi, some of the fighters left with a lot of arms. To the Sahel region. And some of those fighters spilled into Mali, the Tuareg fighters. Yeah. So those fighters with lots of arms, some of them into Nigeria. In that 2014-2015 period saw the influx of many immigrants that we don't know where they are coming from, some of them armed. So when you hear of, um, herders-farmers clashes, Some of these are not even headers because they don't have headers. Used to have cows, now, right?

And stick to control the cows.

So we are now seeing headers with AK-47s and no cows.

Do you think they are Nigerians?

Some of them, but most are not. There are some citizens from Chad, from Niger, and Nigerians need to know that Boko Haram don't only operate within Nigerian borders. They operate in Chad, in Niger, in Cameroon even. Yeah. So the Nigerian military is trying its best, right? But they don't have enough equipment. Yeah. And this is a complaint that we've heard from so many people. So many people.

There was a time that some soldiers revolted. That they didn't give them enough ammunition and now they can't fight. They are in, all of them, to be killed.

Yeah, and that is because the military is almost like a court.

They were killed.

Yeah, once you join, you cannot desert. You become the enemy. So they had to be court-martialed. And these guys, I saw your story on X, was it last week? Where someone was talking about picking up, he picked up and he's serving military personnel whose wife gave birth and he, to twins, but he couldn't go home for some months. And then the wife called him to tell him that one of them had died and that he had to come and see for the other one too. When you read things like that, would you want any of your relatives to ever join the Nigerian military? Now, if everyone choose not to join the military, who will protect us from this war? You see, when Nigerian politicians are this relaxed about insecurity It amazes me. The only thing keeping Abuja from feeling this heat are these guys, because insecurity is already in Kaduna here. They just need to breach this border and that is all. That is all. If, if, and God forbid, if the federal capital of Nigeria is overrun by militants. What happens to Nigeria, the most populous country in Africa? We can't even secure our borders. We can't protect our citizens. So honestly, we are not progressing as a country.

No, we are not.

Every president that has come in since Obasanjo I think with the exception of Yar'Adua in between, things have been better. The past have always been better than the future, sort of. So the change mantra that brought in Buhari was Americans trying to reorganize things.

Since World War II, they've been involved in over 100 regime change across the world. That's, that's a very huge number.

You, you, did you follow the one that happened then in DRC that brought in Mobutu?

Yeah, yeah.

So when, when people talk about Americans coming to help, just show them the story of DRC.

But you know, behind also the backdrop of all this story, you also see Africans fighting their own. We did that in Ghana against Kwame Nkrumah. Julius Nyerere. Yeah, also we did that.

Did they do it?

It's more like, it's more like they— I get it. It's more like they've mastered the science of engineering the emotions of the people to align with what they want to do. And they have a slogan: if you want to kill a dog, give it a bad name. And once you can label the people—

and the label now for Nigeria is religious persecution. That is the only thing that can trigger a country that is almost 50-50%. Thank you.

That is already fragmented. Yes. And people again cannot be judged based on how they react. Yes.

Because if you are telling— if you're asking me whether this family lost 5 of their children, they did.

They did.

Who were the people shooting them? They were shouting Allahu Akbar.

Yes.

So how do I convince this family that this person had nothing to do with Islam?

It's difficult.

It's difficult. No matter the fact you present to someone mourning, it's almost like you are spitting on the grave of their loved ones.

Yes, and sometimes it's just best to keep quiet.

It's best to keep quiet. And which is why Nigerians, we need to try and sometimes, no matter the pain you're feeling, we need to sit back and think and reflect. On these things. There are so many examples littered around.

You know, even this podcast is a risk, okay, in the sense that it can go south.

Yes.

Sometimes pain controls the opinion of the people.

Yes.

And one of the major questions in my mind right now— our problems are quite complex.

Yeah.

The emotions, what we feel, they are not simple. Across ethnic line, across religious line. It's difficult.

Very.

You have been in this space. You have some of the backend stories that an average Nigerian don't have access to. You know what the media is sifting from the people. When you look at what is happening with your knowledge of geopolitics, um, what do you think we should do as a nation? To break this cycle? It's a vicious one.

Um, firstly, I think Nigerians, we need to come to a place where we agree that we are Nigerians first before tribe. We should keep tribe aside.

Patriotism.

Yes. As long as we all see our different tribes to be the nations we come from, and that we are all just part of a collective union of Nigeria, as opposed to the Nigerian being the thing that we are as our identity, we'll keep having this crisis. Now, I am Igbede from Benue State. Right? Benue has, um, I think 4 ethnic groups. Mine is Igede, a very— a minority of the minority. So, um, in Zone C we have Igede and Idoma, right? And then Zone A and Zone B are the Tiv, which is the majority in Benue State. Since the formation of the state, nobody from Zone C has ever become governor of the state.

That's Igbo?

No, both Igbo and Idoma. And the logical explanation is that, um, of course, this vote along tribal lines. So we have Zone A, Zone B, they are always going to get the majority. I understand, but can we have somebody from the majority that actually cares about the state? At least. At least. Now, when you're coming to the Zone C region, my friend, we went to the same primary school, the same secondary school. If you ask him now, he will tell you, otuko, asa 2004, was more developed than Otukpo today.

Are you serious?

Yes, sir. It's terrible. In that Zone C, nobody from Igbedi has ever become senator.

Wow.

Yes. My point here now is, can we look beyond tribe as a country? If we can, it's one of the first ways we can get over this vicious cycle, this fighting ourselves. Because imagine now that Lagos State— I shocked them that day when I told them that Lagos is, um, the economy of Lagos is bigger than most African countries. You are aware, right?

Most African countries, yes, I'm aware.

Yes, it's that big and prosperous. Now imagine the people in Lagos decide to vote for a Lagosian as their governor, not a Yoruba person. Now this is going to get me in trouble. I think I'm ready for that dragon now, right?

You don't want to smoke a Lagosian and not—

yeah, we need to, we need to remove everything called state of origin. From our constitution.

It's tough. You know why? Because people don't feel it to be innocent. Look at what just happened in South Africa. Yes, there's xenophobic reaction because the Igbos were installing an Igbo chieftain. The same thing happened in Ghana. So one of the things you want to ask is that why are they reacting like that? Maybe they don't just trust what they may be doing next. They see occupying agenda. Yeah, I think that has also fueled the divide, um, that we see.

And the story that is always referenced is, uh, Uthman Dan Fodio.

And it's obvious, it's obvious. And even Biafonja, um, in Ilorin, um, it's a very complex story also. Yes, you wonder how Ilorin has Emir and not Oba. And they speak Yoruba.

Yeah.

So I think I'm just saying in fairness, while I'm really much of an advocate for us to unite, but sometimes I'm like, what are these guys not saying? But what you said first is really something we should look at. We are no longer patriotic.

We are not.

We're tired.

We are just— in fact, the ideology of if you divide Nigeria to become more prosperous is a lie. It's a lie. I think it's one of the— it's one of the propaganda that is being used.

I think they will divide it once they are done perfecting the business plan from the West.

Because now imagine, imagine, um, place like, um, the, the Southeast— that's the Igbo region, right? Southeast. Now that is agitating for Biafra. Imagine a Biafra state that is landlocked. Yes, the people will tell you we are industrious, we are this, we are that. It's going to be catastrophic from day one because you will be starting from zero. Your economy will be, will be trash before you will you'll be able to trade with international, um, with anybody outside your borders, you will have to go through Nigeria. Yeah, that is now going to be an enemy state. So will Biafra, as small as it would be, want to be an enemy of a giant such as Nigeria?

Do you think if Biafra ever goes or leaves Nigeria, that Nigeria will remain Because the Arewa would just say, we also have the Oduduwa.

The funny thing is they actually wanted to break away after, um, after they killed Aguirre Onsi. Do you know that?

They wanted the North.

Murtala Mohammed wanted secession. He wanted— he said he doesn't want to have anything to do with Nigeria anymore.

Do you know about the Abuja Accord?

Yes, yes.

Would it have helped us?

It would have if Gowon had—

He, he slighted them at the last moment.

But I think Gowon had his own reasons, and one of those was that the— that Ojukwu was negotiating in bad faith. Also that the power was going to be taken away from the central government.

And decentralized.

Yes. So Gowon was just going to be a figurehead.

Would that not have helped us better?

It would have helped, but now—

Nigeria, not the presidency.

Not the presidency. And that is a problem we have.

Do you think—

which is why I told you from the beginning that I am not so much democracy fan anymore. Not so much.

Someone believes that— some people believe that democracy Um, as an idea is to give the people the illusion that they decide who rules them every 4 years or 5 years until they are too old to vote.

Festival.

And then they find out that festival, they are not really the one to decide. But again, um, I had a conversation with Dr. Obi.

Okay.

And she said She also made the quote, um, by a scholar that said that for those who said democracy doesn't work, have they seen the effect of something else that worked? Well, I didn't answer, but my answer is yes. We've seen Singapore, China. I'm saying China is tough. Yeah, the communist system is tough. For a while, for a long time now, they've had the one-child policy.

I think they reversed it.

They reversed it because the idea of the population of China is being found to be some lies.

So, and they also manipulate their currency, which is— but, but here's something with China that I like. Everything the West says is bad for China, is bad that China does, is actually in the interest of the Chinese people, not of the leadership of China.

Of the Chinese people.

Do you understand? Yeah. So China, they talk about the one-child policy was because to prevent what? Overpopulation. Yeah. Right. And then the One China policy. Do you know what Taiwan would mean to the economy of China if they were to be reunified? Taiwan. There's this company in Taiwan called, um, TCM, right? Um, the semiconductor company in Taiwan. It fabricates or produces almost all the semiconductor used in American companies like Nvidia and all of those things. So if China gets hold of it, the US is out just like that.

Do you think China wants to unite with them again?

It is a policy. In fact, it is now in their constitution that they don't have the right to secede. President Xi Jinping had made it a law that you cannot— it's now against the law to secede. So no part of China can break away. And Taiwan, they have made it clear to Taiwan that they are going to reunify them back to mainland China, either with force or diplomacy, whichever. In fact, um, few days ago they met with, um, the opposition leader from Taiwan. So it's just a matter of time, just a matter of time. And relating this back to Nigeria, if you admire Singapore, you need to know the story of Singapore. Yep. Lee Kuan Yew was not a good man.

We call him a benevolent dictator.

But he cared about his people.

His people.

So his philosophy was that if you don't like what we are doing, you are an enemy of the state. Yeah. If you don't want the progress of Singapore, you cannot be part of Singapore. It's just, it's just like saying you're either for us or you are against us. Now, is that, is that tough? Yes. Is it going to lead to, um, some innocent people getting caught in the middle? Yes. But being innocent now, how innocent are you when you are being a tool in the hands of an adversarial country?

Oh, now you hit the nail. Yep.

Do you see it now?

Many don't even know.

Do you see it now? So if now My channel on YouTube, if I decide to use my channel to do propaganda against the Nigerian states, saying things I know to be false, to just rile up the people and lead the nation into civil war, yeah, doesn't the Nigerian government have the right to lock me up without right to a lawyer or something? A lawyer coming to defend me is actually working for whichever state is sponsoring me, especially if there is a state sponsoring me. Wow. Right? So now we have Burkina Faso.

Yeah.

Um, about a week or two weeks ago, the leader— I hate to call him junta leader like the West will always attribute him— he is the leader and president of Burkina Faso, right? Traoré. When he said that, um, his people should forget about democracy And everybody were running with it. Now look at him. Every dictator gets to this point, they always come as benevolent.

Nkrumah was almost at that point. He saw that this thing was a trap.

So now my question is, is it working for the people? Why are elections so important that even this leader is performing well, you just want us to go and vote for somebody else? And then my reference point to them is, how about Paul Biya? Cameroonians my age don't know any other president than Paul Biya. Yeah, and I'm 32 years old. This man has been in power since 19— since the early 1980s, right? And guess what? He initially abolished the position of vice president. They have now reinstated the position of vice president. Guess who is the vice president now?

Femi Lazarus.

And if anything happens to the president, who becomes the president? The vice president.

So succession is in place.

So now elections, democracy is now becoming almost like the World Cup, every 4 years. Right? We perform the ceremony, we join the queue, defend democracy, defend our vote, chant against INEC, and then what? We elect a tonto. And then when tonto is done for the 4 years, and then he appoints his colleagues and friends into INEC, and then we chant again, defend our democracy, defend our democracy, and then We vote again and then we have another president, and then we wait for 4 years and then we defend our— this is tiring, is it not?

Let's say you start voting, let's say someone start voting at age 20, and each president, let's say they got to go through 2 election cycles, each of them 8 2, 4 years, that's 8 years.

Yeah.

And let's say you're able to vote at least 10 times. That's 4 times 10, that's 40.

40 years.

Plus 20, that's 60. Out of that 4 times, 10 times that you voted, you have 5 presidents. So 5 presidents will take the span of 40 years of your life. 5, 10 years of self-deceit. Yes. Believing that another Messiah is coming.

It's coming.

It's a vicious cycle.

And now this, this analogy you just gave, people think this is so far into the future. Let me count the 5 presidents for you. You voted Yar'Adua.

Obasanjo.

No, no, Obasanjo is too far behind.

Okay.

You voted Yar'Adua, who came in with Jonathan. Jonathan completed his term. So Jonathan's end, or the end of Jonathan's time at 2015, was the 8 years, right? Yeah, then we had Buhari, right? Buhari did 8 years. Yes, we are into the third now. Tinubu, Tinubu will do his 8 years. Yes, look at that, look at that. So we are just, we're just doing election festivals.

I want to make a request.

Okay.

I think what the conversations we've had today can go either ways— trouble, yeah, or enlightenment, yeah, depending on how open-minded people are. And, um, hopefully no one gets to cut it for malicious intent. Either ways, I like to request that we're going to have to have you again. Okay, um, many things have been classified today. Okay, even though this is Declassified Podcast. Yeah, um, then we can have conversations around other subject. Okay, and now we can focus on the continent as a whole. Okay, and look at the Western influence and interest and where we get to really dissect. If looking at the number of years Africa spent under colonial masters, and all of a sudden, within the space of 10, 15, 20 years, all the countries, one after the other, were getting their release. Is it planned? Was it staged? Was it a transition from colonialism into something entirely different? These are the conversations I want us to have in the next episode.

Okay, that's very interesting because let me give you a hint now.

Yes.

All the former French colonies, their democracy were planned by a man named Charles de Gaulle. They didn't gain democracy. Democracy was now becoming the trend, and the United States was going to frown at France if France keeps hold of their former colonies. So France needed to design a system that will make it look like these states are now governing themselves. But in the terms of the democracy they signed, the French had the right to state— to put their military on the ground in those countries, and they also had to control their currencies. I'll stop here. Wow.

Yeah. I want to really thank you for coming.

Thank you so much.

It's so enlightening. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.