THEY BUILT SYSTEMS TO KEEP AFRICANS SMALL

My dad stayed in the same position for 30 years. He never went up. He has so many promotion opportunities, but he never took them because he believes in his family. They should not be that big.

Your journey to freedom, how did it start? Where are you now on that journey so people can know what to do?

I'm not completely there, but I'm great and I am much better. Than who I used to be. Who I used to be, that wasn't me. That was what society created. That was what culture created. And I mentioned earlier, I took healing. Healing in a sense of me getting up and say, no, this is not who I am. I'm not born to be small. I have too much inside of me to remain here. So there was a discontentment inside of me. Now That's problem. That's a problem. I had to do life with wickedness and stubbornness to be able to break out of it.

How do you mean?

You cannot be compliant and become the person you need to be, especially in this society. Compliance is not something you should hold on to.

So there's an attempt to culturally make you comply, subdue you?

You have to. That's what you— who you were raised to be. How can you be anything that you have never met before? It took me to be out of here to understand that there was a problem.

Hey guys, if you're watching this now, that means you are here for intelligent conversations and this is exactly where you want to be. We have conversations that will get you at the edge of your seat. And this particular one is one you don't want to miss. I have a very honest request from you as we start this conversation. I'd like for you to like this broadcast that helps us to get this to as many people as possible. You know, we can work together getting intelligent conversations to people all over the world. And I'd like you to drop your comment. Let us know how you feel. Let us know how this has impacted you. And one thing you want to do also is to subscribe to this YouTube channel. As this will notify you whenever we're bringing up videos, podcasts, or any other kind of video that can be a blessing to your heart. I look forward to having you again and again on this show. Thank you so much. Hey guys, welcome to Declassified Podcast. I mean, this is a very special edition, first edition in the open field. And this is a very necessary edition of The Classified. Ewo to all my people right now in Togo. We're going to be diving deep into something very serious, something I have seen across different African countries, and I have not been able to lay my hands on it and get the kind of explanation I've gotten to this concept till I started having this conversation with the both of them. And so we're just going to dive straight in. You were sharing with me yesterday about— and the both of you precisely— the effect of the training that an average person has received. Maybe for now I narrow it down to Togo, then I talk about my experience across different other African countries in respect to the fact that that kind of training is such that it robs people of their identity and can make you become timid. You want to dive deep into that conversation.

Thank you for that question. This has been a burden for us for a long time, seeing that our people can be more, but they've not been allowed to.

Who are they?

Society. Family.

That's what makes us right. In Africa, family is everything for us. But in this case, instead of family or culture being a booster, the culture in a way has become the oppressor and the one that suppresses the gifts and the voice in our nations. Now I tell people, nah, everything about African culture is bad. I love my culture.

Not everything.

Not everything. Yeah, I love my culture, but there are some things that we've held on to that is killing us. So if you look at the average kid in the West, they ask questions, they're curious. When you tell them something, they will ask you Why? The average African parent will feel threatened and disrespected because the child asks why. And that is because of the way we were raised. We were raised to be quiet. We were raised to say yes. But what we don't realize that Every time the child says yes without questioning your opinion, that child is losing the ability to be analytical in the future.

Are you serious?

Yes, the child is losing the ability to even question the next person that will come to him or her. And we've seen that I'll call it pandemic in the African nations.

So you practically were raised like that?

I was, Apostle.

Is there a part of you that can relate what she said?

Definitely. I think for me, um, I didn't realize— I thought first I was born like this. I didn't realize it was, um, how we were raised, because since I was a child I would be just in the corner reading books. And when was the shift for me? When you talked about— we were having a conversation, we were having a conversation and you talked about the effect of our culture on education, on our kids. And I realized that I was doing some things with my daughter she'll be asking questions and I wouldn't give her the answers. I would just tell her, just do what I said and move on. And she was asking a lot of questions when she was a kid. And I realized that now she is going to be 10 this year. Slowly, she's not asking that much questions anymore. And she will come to me, she wants to ask me something and she will say, you're going to say no anyway. And she just leaves. So it has— that's when I started realizing that it was really cultural, that it was something that I've been accustomed to and that I was replicating. So now I'm really working on unlearning that. And when I was also at university abroad, I was having really a difficult time blending in. I was not able to—

You were in university in which country?

Canada.

Canada.

Yes. So I wasn't able to, uh, relate with people. I was having difficult because it's not the same, um, type of learning. Um, people speak out and they explain what the teacher said in their own words, but we were more, um, we more learned to repeat what the teacher said. So it was been difficult for me, but I was not able to express that. So It has really been an eye-opening conversation for me yesterday because when I was talking, I realized the people in front of me that were not Togolese were surprised. And that's when I really started realizing it's— this is really an issue. And I was not aware of that in that manner.

If I can deduce from what both of you are saying, you're saying that some of the things that we see in many of our African countries that the people are relatively calm and withdrawn. They look shy. It's not just nature. It is the culture of silence that has broken people.

Yes. Okay.

There are questions I want to ask both of you. You have been in the West for over 20 years. When you moved to the West, did you, did you feel, did you experience the effect of the culture you received here in Togo in America? Did they affect you? Were there fights you had to fight to break free?

There were many fights, both in education, in career, in business. Face a lot of challenges, had to face many battles to be able to be where I am today. We were taught to be in the back of the room.

You were taught to be in the back of the room?

That's humility and that's respect. You don't stand in front. Actually, you don't stand, you sit. That is humility.

Is that gender-based culture or just average Togolese?

In Togo, we still have those gender inequality, but this is for the average Togolese. And you see that even abroad that we don't do much with ourselves. Not because we don't have the capacity, not because we don't have the potentials or the intellectual capacity, But because we were taught, you were meant to be small. So anywhere you go, you need to be small. And if you try to be big, then you become a rebel. And for me, my family, for a long time I was a rebel because nothing small was enough for me and I wanted more. So We were engineered from childhood to know that you, you are small from family, then you start school, school tells you you are small, then you get into career, career tells you you are small. So even our names, every name, every cultural name in Togo literally has V to it. No way.

What does that mean?

It's V-I. V is small.

No way. Yeah, so give me examples of that.

If you are Kojovi, Adjovi, Ablavi, Komlavi, Kokovi, Akovi, small.

You want to tell me the meaning of that?

Someone who is born on Wednesday, and the V is what she's just referring to.

Yeah, why?

Because we've been engineered to be small. So from the day you were born, your parents made sure that your new identity, not the identity you came with, is small. So everywhere you go, you remain small. Even when we tell people we are from Togo, the first thing, if they know, because most people don't know about Togo, they they say, oh, that small place, you people are really small.

I think people have that impression that Togo is quite a—

even abroad.

Yes.

Do I blame them? No. That is the impression that has been given to them because even the map is small. But were we small? No. Who made us small intentionally? From map to names to education, our curriculum. To our choice of careers, to the rooms that we can sit in, to the kind of businesses we can do. That we can do trade, selling, buying and selling, but we can't do global trade. So it's been strategically engineered that this nation, Togo, to remain small.

You said something quite profound yesterday, that there were roles you could have taken in the organization, I think managerial role or something, that you did not take them because you felt small.

Yes, um, I didn't feel— I didn't feel like I was able to do it. I didn't feel I had the capacities, but I studied, I studied economics and finance. Um, so Canada, yes. So I knew deep down that I, I had something, but I was not feeling like I could do the job and I could do the job properly. Um, so for me, it has always been battling with, um, knowing that you can birth something, uh, quite big, but also having low self-esteem. And I'll say for me, I really had a great childhood, to be honest. My parents were great with me. There was no time— and I'm the last born, so I had that privilege of having two big brothers and my mother and my dad. And they have always been supportive in what I wanted to do at university, in whom I had as friend, they would give advice and everything, but they wouldn't be, uh, pressuring. So I've had that chance. Um, so I feel like what I, I get from what she's saying is that it has been going on now, um, that mind engineering for some long— for decades. That's why, um, we don't, uh, even realize that it is something that is not supposed to be that way. So, um, there were positions, um, where I had to, uh, discuss for, uh, as long as 2 months before being able to, uh, um, to say yes. And even last year, there was, um, supposed to be a recognition, um, in a magazine towards the job that I was doing. And I said no to the person. It was a partner I was working with because I didn't— I wasn't seeing how I could be talked about in the magazine. So I said no to that opportunity. And before that, that partner was someone I was having frequent, um, conversation with. And after that part, he just vanished. So that means people don't have time, um, to wait for you to be ready. So, uh, he had other things to do. So, and, um, that's, um, that part, precisely. Um, he's abroad, he's in Europe, so he had other things to do. So he didn't have time for someone to be, uh, uh, um, to be, to assume who you are and just take responsibility of the job that you are doing and say, I've done this and I'm, um, I'm completely at ease with what I have as growth. So I think that we really have to do the job ourselves. We really have to build that confidence. And as you often say, you have to be prepared for when the opportunity will come. And for that time in particular, I was not prepared.

So let me, you know, sometimes And this is one of the things I've discovered. When people are being engineered in a certain way to become certain things, oftentimes they don't know till they are face to face with something else, and it occurred to them that maybe something is actually wrong with the way I was brought up. What was that moment for you that you saw something else? And you said, oh no, I've been raised wrongly. The environment has cheated me. What was that moment for you?

For me, my business in the US, the business was growing so fast. It was being published in very reputable magazines in the US. Essence, People, who are like reality TV shows, you know, Washingtonians. It was even named, um, top 50 florist in the US. Many achievements, but I never claimed it because I never thought I was good enough to wear that crown. Yes. So I will have other people say Why is it that you don't post these things? Why is it that you don't talk about it? Say, oh, it's okay. Somebody may look at it, actually my people may look at it and say, yeah, she's humble. But what I was doing myself was robbing myself of many other opportunities. Like my sister said, I've had so many great interviews for publications. But in the end, I said, no, it's okay, don't, don't publish it, I'm good. Yes, because that's what we're taught. You can't be big, you are too small to think big. But it got to a point when I realized people that I was doing better than were actually pitying me, like What's going on? What's the issue? Then I realized there was a problem. Why am I not claiming my victories? Why am I not taking my crown? And for a few years, I started going through a process of healing, healing from that identity that was given to me that I never asked for. Healing from that smallness that convinced me that it was okay to remain in that place. And it's been a process, gradual process. A lot. I lost so many opportunities.

Yes.

I lost so many opportunities, um, especially in this— maybe things have changed and I don't know, but, um, we were raised as girls, and your story could be different. We were raised as girls to think we were only good for marriage, so we were prepared for marriage. I'm a sibling, one sibling of 7 girls. Um, it was just all about marriage. One day you would just go. So my dad felt like he'd never had a future because all he gave birth to was girls, and girls could never become anything small again. So everybody was being raised to become a wife one day and to have children, but you never think at the time that you will ever become anything big, whether a leader or someone that impacts other lives. Small. It was a closure that was prepared for us.

I would say I had more chance. I had really more chance because when I was going to university, I remember at some time I was starting a relationship with my now husband, and my dad was saying, was just saying, I didn't send you over there, you know, for relationship. I sent I will send you there to study. So he has always been big on education first. So for me, that was a chance because I had more chance, to be honest. And really, it's sad, but what she just said, I would say, is the reality of many, many girls, I would say, even across Africa and also in Togo.

When you look around, you walk around Togo, You see the same problems in people? To be honest, I'm thinking the mindset of defeat. Do you see it in people?

Definitely.

Everywhere?

Everywhere. People can be in the same spot for 10 years and they won't even move. Really? Yes.

Is it because they are comfortable?

I would say this. That to add a little bit to what Atia said, my dad once told us, he put us in the best schools in Togo. He worked hard to make sure he put us in the best schools. But one thing he always say, I'm doing it so when you fail, people don't say it's because I didn't do it.

Wow.

Yes. So he put us in the best school. I had the best classmates.

I need to note that down. Are you serious?

Wow.

Yeah, he put us in the best schools, but it was for so that people don't say because they were girls, you know, he didn't do anything. He did it to shield himself, so he made sure we had education, but the education was because he didn't want backlash. And my dad, like you said, stayed in the same position for 30 years. He never went up. My mom tried everything. In his mind, he has so many promotion opportunities, but he never took them because he believes in his family. They should not be that big. And this is the thing also, my uncles that actually tried In my family, my dad's side, we have great medical doctors, great government officials, but then they go and it's like something made sure they came back there.

What you're describing is the culture of being basic.

Yes.

You can have a fantastic career.

Yes.

You can have a fantastic job.

Yes.

But when you have the culture of being basic, your limits will always be within the confines of that career. You are not adventurous as to being able to do something outside the box. Yeah, you wear a normal lab coat and look prim and proper. Yes, but inside there is something that is dead. Yes, I can't seek for more than this job. It looks like a predictable life. Yes, like there's a predictable future.

Very.

But the problem is that you can't become more than the opportunity the job has given, and that's the culture here.

Yes, the average Togolese, the achievement, the average, not everybody, is to graduate from university, get a job with Thai I can't even call it white collar, blue collar, because it's not— it's not that level. Get a tie, sit in an office, get a bike first. That's a big— that's a big achievement. Then, then you buy half a plot. That is big.

Half a plot.

Then you build maybe 2 bedrooms on it. That's the achievement. Once you do that, you become the biggest person in there. So the youth has been engineered to think that building a house, getting a car with a driver, having two maids, having your children in private school is being big, but that's been basic. That's being basic, but it's because they never saw their fathers do better. So when they can do that, it is big for them. That is being big.

And once people reach that climax, that point where they feel now they're big, they settle.

They settle. They're done. That's where they remain.

Let me ask you a question. Has this ever made you cry before?

So many times. So many times. I cry because I saw the potentials in the people. I know we are more. I know they have so much creativity. If you go around the streets of Lomé, you see how creative we are. Wood, arts, knitting, even clothes like this. We are very creative. Mm-hmm. We knitting kete. Togo used to grow cotton. I don't know about now. We used to make things. We are very— in French we say artisanal. Yeah, very, very creative people. But this is where they remain. You come back 30 years to see that same man, young man that you saw, grow old on that same street.

Yeah.

I want you to do something. Both of you are going to do something. I want you to address the core of this problem. You speak, and I want to do it in the native language and mix it with French. You— I want to speak to the core. I want to speak as though every Togolese, born and unborn, is standing right in front of you and you are addressing the issue and speaking to the depth of their soul what they should do. Speak the language. You want to go first?

I think I'll go in French and I'll let the English for you. La lumière qu'on a quand on est enfant, dans le sens où quand on est enfant, on a une lumière en nous, on a de la curiosité, on veut faire des choses, on veut apprendre. Et plus on grandit, plus cette lumière disparaît. Donc en fait, c'est de pouvoir savoir qu'on peut, on a le droit en fait de rêver grand, on a le droit de voir ce qui se fait à côté, de vouloir avoir la même chose, ce qui se fait dans d'autres pays à côté de nous. On a le droit de vouloir réaliser de grandes choses. Donc pour moi, c'est vraiment de ne pas perdre cette lumière-là, même quand tout à côté de nous nous fait sentir petit, nous dit qu'on peut rester vraiment dans ce qu'on connaît. Ne pas perdre la lumière et toujours vouloir en fait aller plus loin, de toujours vouloir rêver au-delà même de ce qu'on connaît. Et aujourd'hui, en fait, on a la possibilité possibilités. Même si tu n'as pas la possibilité de sortir de ton pays, tu peux quand même voir sur internet. Il y a— on peut maintenant rêver à travers internet. Donc c'est aussi de ne pas juste utiliser en fait internet pour les réseaux sociaux, mais de pouvoir utiliser internet pour se documenter et comprendre ce qu'il y a en dehors de mon pays, pour comprendre en fait ce qui est possible. Donc pour moi, ce serait ça.

Yeah. On atteint nos gouvernements, on atteint nos médias, on atteint d'autres gars. On ne dit que les dieux l'atteignent. Mais les dieux m'ont encouragé. Je ne sais pas si c'est Dieu qui m'a dit: «Vois, va à Sanoukoué, va me dire coucou et nous soupons les miens.» Mais je ne sais pas, je ne sais pas. Je ne sais pas ce qui m'a pris. Mais je dois y aller. Je note bien, je prépare mon texte. Voilà. beaucoup de distraction sur les réseaux sociaux.

I know you've spoken from your heart. Let's get towards the solution to some of the problems you've mentioned.

How did you—

your journey to freedom, how did it start? Where are you now on that journey so people can know what to do?

I'm not completely there, but I'm, I'm great, and I am much better than who I used to be. Who I used to be That wasn't me. That was what society created. That was what culture created. And I mentioned earlier, it took healing. Healing in a sense of me getting up and saying, "No, this is not who I am. I'm not born to be small. I have too much inside of me to remain here." So there was a discontentment inside of me. Now that's problem. That's a problem. I had to do life with wickedness and stubbornness to be able to break out of it.

How do you mean?

You cannot be compliant and become the person you need to be, especially in this society. Compliance is not something you should hold on to.

So there's an attempt to culturally make you comply, subdue you.

You have to. That's what you— who you were raised to be. How can you be anything that you have never met before? It took me to be out of here to understand that there was a problem. Yeah, and it goes from childhood to adulthood to marriage to every sphere of your life. It took me to be out of here to understand. But again, if all of us have to go out to find our identity, who will be left? That's why we that have gone through the journey, or maybe still going through the journey, but that have broken through, we want to help others break through. And it's not gonna be fun. It's not a smooth journey. It is a journey that will even create rejection. Definitely rejection, reproach, shame. But this is a sacrifice we are willing to make to make sure we become who we were supposed to be. Wow.

Yes, for me, um, I thought my journey started 15 years ago.

15 years ago?

I thought.

You thought it started 15 years ago?

I thought because, uh, 15 years ago I realized when I was growing up that you couldn't satisfy everyone because we were always expected to say yes and to please, uh, every other people. And I started having, um, issues with people and with family and At some point I understood you couldn't please everyone. Um, no matter what you do, there will always be, uh, people that you cannot meet their needs. So, uh, what I decided from, and that there was also the difficulties of, uh, living abroad without your family. So what I decided at that time was that, uh, everything now will be about me, about my nuclear family and about the small group of friends that I had. And then all the rest was not my problem. So I thought that was the way. That's what I mean by I thought that I understood something, but it was just, um, um, now, and I will say from last year, I'm now understanding that that's not the way, uh, that there needs to be more to it, uh, that that's not, uh, my healing process hasn't even started because I didn't even know I had, um, wounds. I had to heal from. So I think now for me it's just starting. And why it's important for me, it's also because of my children, because I don't want them to, um, to go through life not knowing there's more to it. So for me, I'm just starting the journey. I'm not even They yet at all.

Now, one of the things I understand is that the culture that suppresses people, particularly women, also enables weak men. And you find issues of domestic abuse and all that. Hope that's not something around this part of the world.

That's the average life.

Yeah, you want to give me a graphical definition? Of description of what that looks like.

The greatness of women, or the boldness of women, is considered a threat instead of a tool that they can use. So you have to respect your husband and honor your husband. I agree, I don't have any problem with that. But a male that feels they are only strong only after the female is weak is a failure.

Wow, that is strong one. It's a failure.

What is society without women? After you break all the women, what is left of you? Women, youth— men are okay, but the women and the youth drive society, drive a nation. So if you suppress your women, what is left of them? And to just give you one example, for the average Togolese When you go through difficulties in your marriage, you are not allowed to talk about it.

Are you serious? No, not even a therapist, not a counselor.

I don't know, maybe the younger generation. We were brought up to keep it in. You're a woman, you can take it, so you take it all in. So we see a lot of women that are broken. From trauma, from wounds. Even if when the man is beating the woman, when a man is beating the woman, you can't even go to your parents. No way. If you do, pack your bags. Let me tell you a funny story. When we're younger, my dad, my mom, my mom, she was very industrious. She wanted so much. So she would tell my dad, I'm tired of renting, I want to build our own home. I don't have the money, why can I build? And my dad will say, just in case our daughters have issues in their marriage and come home, they will have a place. So for us not to have a place for them, let's keep renting. Yes, let's keep renting so that when they go through issues and violence in their marriage, they don't come back?

What should happen to them?

You stay! And we've seen many die, we've seen many beaten to death, we've seen many destroyed— sicknesses, blunts, you know, beating, beatings. Beaten every day, but you, you just— okay, maybe not friends, but family is supposed to be a safe place, but you can't even go back. So most of the people, women you see in Togo, they are broken, they're traumatized, they're going through it, but they can't talk about it.

And something happens when an abuser sees that the girl has nowhere to go back.

That's their strength, and that's what happens. I was a victim. That's what happens. You can't run. Where are you going? It's a shame to your family for you to come back. So you stay until it happens, then we say, ah, let's cover it up and tell people another story. But we'll never help you when it comes to that because we have to protect the name of the family, not your marriage. You're a woman. I've had someone told me one day, you don't enjoy marriage, you endure it. Are you serious?

Hope that's not in church.

Most of them, most of the broken women are in church crying every day. So it is in church. It is in church.

Do you feel there's something the church can do to also stop some of these things in respect to the way the men are taught? The violence?

For me, I think it has to start with educating our boys, uh, because we are too big on educating the, the, the girls, um, learn them how to cook, uh, learn them how to be calm, how to be responsible and everything, and not enough focus on the voice. I think it's also responsibilities from every other person to do that, but there has to be a mindset, there has to be a mind reset because it has been going on for so long now that most of it we don't even, most of the person don't even realize that it is not the norm. That it is not normal. So, uh, for me, we don't have actually right now in the church what needs to be there for these women to be protected, unfortunately.

You ask what makes the church— is the people, it's not the building.

Yeah.

Can a broken church help Broken people.

Ah, if the people inside are broken, can they help a broken nation?

Wow, they can't. True. So we hide it. I don't even think there are structures in the church to help people. What we do is when the issue— if the woman, or even men can be abused, um, because some, some Togolese women can be powerful, but There are no structures or safe place for these victims to even voice it out. If they are bold enough to voice it out, what they will do is pray. The first advice is, "Keep it to yourself. Let's keep praying." How can someone that is being beaten, abused, be praying when the simple fix is for you to help them fix it? Or shield them from the trouble, from the violence. So the church does not even think, well, we say God is divorced and all those things. So here we are, the people are suffering, but to protect our doctrine that we made, that, and we believe that's holiness, we keep our women suffering. These are the same women that are serving in the church. These are the same women that are doing everything, including the first ladies. Everybody—

some first ladies are going to abuse—

oh, first lady of a nation, first lady of a nation, whether in a government, whether in state, they suffer more than any other woman. Emotional abuse, emotional abuse, domestic abuse, domestic abuse. Call it— you may think they dress nice, they empower position of power and all that, but you don't know the abuse. Because there will always be problem when you have broken men in power. When you have broken men in power and authority, women will suffer, the youth will suffer.

It's something you're saying that is very concerning. If we can look at the nation and we can see that this is a broken leader leading the people with force, with cruelty, with brutality, we can then deduce that the first victim of this force is the wife.

Absolutely.

And you feel many of those women are bullied to silence. You want to say something?

Bullied is an understatement. It is taken from you. If you are bullied, you can try again and be bullied again. Your voice is retrieved for life. And these are women that we look up to. So when you see them, why not do the same thing? So when your husband does it to you, is a norm anyway. So our voices are taken. We are not bullied, we are dead. Dead bodies walking around, dead wombs.

Sad. It's sad. Uh, it's sad. And once again, I think I've had Mercy. God has been merciful for me, uh, because in my case, once— and that's speaking just for me now, I understand, we know we are speaking more about average. And once again, in my— there are a few, uh, here and there exceptions. And in my case, um, I've not experienced domestic abuse, to be honest, uh, not once. And my husband has been trained in a way where even when you are having an issue, no one is allowed to raise his voice at the other person. So that's, uh, and that one has been really difficult for me because, um, I would say that not having been, uh, in a confrontational space before, when I'm stressed or when I have some— my voice just goes up, and I have that, and my— one of my brothers has that too. So when it gets to that, he doesn't respond. So he has been teaching me the hard way, um, and, uh, there was a time where I would just be avoiding communication, and it doesn't help at all. And here we don't— uh, you were asking about, um, speaking to people when you're having issues. We don't believe in that. When going to someone that is specialized, uh, psycholog— um, to, to, to explain your concerns, a therapist, we, we are not— well, I'll say allowed. We don't do that here.

Are you saying there are no therapists in Togo?

There are, but, um, people think it is— I don't know if the word is demeaning, but We've had big issues where you have to go and they will say you have your family if there's something that you want to talk about, but the family is not specialized. The family will just project their own experience onto you. The family, it can never— and when you go to family, you know, you will never say the truth, the 100% true story. It will always be a part because you cannot say everything. Because at the end of the day, there are some things that when you say, the family will never forget. But you, you will have moved on as a spouse. So, uh, we don't believe in going to someone to talk as a therapist. We don't do that here.

And most of the time when you go to family, the woman is the one that is— that every— most of the time No matter how bad it is, the woman is to be blamed because she is supposed to carry the burden and hold the home together. It's true, but how can a broken bucket or bucket with a hole hold water? It will leak. The families are leaking. From families to the church, the church is leaking. Once the church is leaking, society is leaking, then it goes to the top. We are all leaking.

So one of the first things anyone will observe about you, your colorful, your white hair, signature white hair. Okay, it's the first thing. Putting it side by side with some of the things you've described about the culture here. Is that a symbol of resistance? A symbol of the fact that you have to fight and break through? I want to know what it is.

Yes, you know, I never thought about it.

Yeah, let's talk about it now.

I was always a rebel.

Oh God.

And that From my voice to my look to the way I appear, everything about it is intentional because I intentionally chose not to be put in a box. I don't want to be put in a box of culture. One thing you will notice in Togo Togo, most women dress the same way, Ankara, but it is sewed a certain way, even in offices and everywhere, homes.

I feel the difference between Togo and North Korea is the fact that you guys can move around.

You can say that again. So for me, all the women look the same. I remember when I turned 10, my mother started buying me Ankara. To dress like a woman. I was young, why should I dress like a woman? So we always go to the tailor, and instead of sewing what everybody is expected to wear, I will go to those white people catalog. At the time it was like Korean catalog, and I'll flip through, I'll find a page, and I'll tear it, and I'll take it to the tailor, and I say, Shh! So mine like this. So Christmas Day, I look different from everybody, and my mom will be so upset. But she grew to the point to understand this one is not normal, and I don't want to be normal. And this look may not be for everybody, but this look is to tell someone you don't have to be who they say you should be. Be you. There is a uniqueness about you, and that uniqueness I carry everywhere. And anywhere I go, they notice me, and I'm not shy anymore.

It's not difficult.

It's not difficult for me. But, eh, I've seen a lot of people that want to look like me now. Wow. Because they see it and it's beautiful, but they wouldn't have thought it. But once they saw it, they're like, okay, then I can be like this. So my whole goal is to make sure not every woman has to look the same. This uniform, uniform idea is killing our uniqueness, it's killing our identity. And we need to be ourselves.

Wow. Wow. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. It's been such a brilliant conversation. And one of the things I've taken from here is that oftentimes when we travel across African nations, there is a conclusion. These people are calm, easygoing. And all that, that has to do with being subdued when you look closer. While it can be something beautiful as a good virtue, patience, calmness, it can also be a pointer to the fact that something might be killing the might in the people. Yes, and I think also that this has been the genesis of xenophobic issues we have across Africa because other people come, particularly Nigerians, who are not as scammers that we look for opportunities and we just eat it on the run. Yes, and you know, you see that happening across some places and then the resistance is now built against our own people, when for in fact we can just learn from each other. You know, here in Togo, you can move almost at any point. There's security. Yes, same as Ghana. Everywhere is safe, um, which is good. Soon we'll be able to say the same for Nigeria. Soon.

We look forward to it.

It will happen. Yeah, it will happen soon, you know. And, um, I'm so intrigued because I'm speaking to a generation of Togolese that are redefining the norm. We are having this conversation being streamed from all over the world, and the name Togo will be in the mouth of people even as we have this conversation. But much more important is the fact that you went to Canada, came back home to redefine things. You're in America, came back home to redefine things. Maybe this might be the genesis of seeing Africans coming back to say it's time to rebuild Africa and it will be done by Africans.

Yes.

So I want to thank you for having this conversation with me. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you.

Thank you. God bless you.

Thank you.

Thank you.