5 Practical Leadership Lessons Agency Owners Can Learn from General Eisenhower

Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to the day before Thanksgiving. If you're here in the U.S. also known as Wednesday, November 21st. Hey, we want to pop in here with a quick kind of pre Thanksgiving message. We haven't done our agency vision live the last couple weeks. We've got an excuse for that, which we'll share with you live here today. But yeah, Dimmer and I wanted to pop in, do a quick agency vision. He just finished up a book in his downtime. While he's twiddling his thumbs over there.

Exactly.

Dimmer, what's up with you?

Well, I wanted to show everyone why I've been out. And if you're listening to this on the podcast stream. I'm sorry, how do you pull this.

Up on your phone?

I'm pulling this up on my phone. This is, like, insanely technically advanced. Can you see that?

Oh, yeah, that comes through.

There we go. That is Rosie Jean Demski, daughter number two in the Demski family. She showed up a little over two weeks ago. And so I've been off the grid, hanging out, doing dad stuff. Bottles and burps and diaper changes and everything. And so it's. It's been a good time.

I got a question for you. What do you tell people? Do you say, this is my second. We just had our second baby. We just had our second daughter.

What do you. I've been. I've been. I've been saying little girl number two because I'm outnumbered three to one at this point, so I want people to empathize with me on how much floral there is in my house, how much pink there is surrounding me. Disney princesses all over the place. So that's how I've been framing it.

That's awesome. We had Laurel, our oldest, and then Bennett, who just turned two the other day. And with a boy and a girl, it was always just, we had baby number two. But I feel like when I've said to other people about you guys, I'm like, yeah, my buddy Dimmer, they just had their second little girl. There could be boys there, too. He might have seven kids. He's got five boys. And now he just had a second girl. I don't know. But I think it's funny that I've been thinking of, like, do you say anything differently when it's two of the same?

Yeah. So it's been a good time having, like, two weeks to just be at home. And we do. We did a. I think a better job this time than with our first of just kind of, like, shutting out and just like saying we're going to spend this time as a family and just kind of hunker down and do our thing. And that's just. It's been really rejuvenating and so public. Thank you to Gray here for holding down the fort and keeping the operation running. And a. I'd say a big shout out to a business that runs on processes that can lose a co founder for two weeks. And, hey, we're still running here. So thank you, dude, for giving me and the family the opportunity to have that time. That's special rare.

Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. But really keep it coming. No, it was. It's cool to have that time, obviously, when someone's at. I mean, I love having you as part of the team, too, but have time to see, okay, here's how things function without. We're a small team, so without a core person on the team, how do things function? And from all of us in the Agency Journey Insiders community, to you, congratulations to you and Ray.

Thank you. Of Rosa Jean.

That's awesome. I'm excited to meet her in person. So you get some extra responsibility on your shoulders now. A dad of two, and leadership is a big part of your calling right now. Have you learned any lessons recently regarding leadership?

Great. That's a fantastic question. Thank you for asking.

Listen, when you kill a dad and the dad jokes, the very tangentially related silly puns have to come with it. That's what I'm here for.

You're welcome. That's perfect. The purpose of this live is not just to give you guys a family update, but I want to walk through five practical leadership lessons that agency owners like y' all can learn from General Eisenhower. And kind of the background for this episode comes from the fact that I just finished this book. Put this guy up there again. This is Eisenhower in War and Peace. It is by Gene Edward Smith, a fantastic historian, biographer. He did a biography called FDR and On Grant, Two other US Presidents, and it's by far. This is the thickest book I've ever read. It's 750 pages. It's November now. I started it in July, and something this big of an undertaking, I was proud of that. It's definitely the biggest biography I've read yet, and I was just sucked into it. I didn't know much about General Eisenhower moving into it or President Eisenhower, and I learned a lot. And I'm really excited about some of the lessons that I took from it that I can apply to our business And I think would be really helpful for a lot of folks here in the community. So I'm ready to dig in whenever you are.

Say that. Say the name of the book one more time since I.

It is.

I've not done my, my assigned reading yet.

It is Eisenhower in War and Peace. There you go.

So, yeah, five lessons. You got five lessons, you said, what'd you say, 700 something pages in there?

750 pages. There's more than five lessons, but these are the five that I pulled out that I thought could have the most practical impact on all of us as business owners, as leaders. Today, couple high level thoughts about Eisenhower's personality that might help set the stage for this. He was going into World War II. He was just a colonel in the U.S. army. He wasn't this shiny big leader going into everything. And he wasn't very charismatic like General Patton would be or General MacArthur was. These are big personalities. And I. Eisenhower was more of a logistics guy coming in from the back. But what you see early in his career is his ability to network and his ability to know people. And he uses it to his advantage in a lot of ways. When he gets assignments early in his career that aren't the most advantageous to moving you up the military ladder, he's kind of leveraging these relationships that he built with more senior generals to say, hey, get me out of here, take me somewhere else. I don't want to be here right now. So that, that's kind of a background of who he is. He has a logistics background and he's good at building relationships, and he's kind of even keeled in that sense.

Sorry to cut you off. I'm looking up right now. Do you know how old he was? What year was he born? 1890. Okay.

Yeah. So he was the last U.S. president to be born in the 19th century.

Nice. I guess if Kennedy came after him.

And he was young Buck. Yeah. So sorry to. First lesson. That's okay. That's pretty much why we're here. The first lesson is have the self confidence to surround yourself with smart people. And this is one thing that I saw in him from how he chose like his Chief of staff, how he like, built different staffs at different posts around his military career. Specifically, when he became Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces During World War II, he brought in generals and he brought in influences that could intimidate him. They had more experience than him. When he became Supreme Allied Commander, he'd never commanded troops on the ground, so everyone around him was technically smarter at him smarter than he was at the job they were doing. But what he did is he had the capacity to recognize the value that they had in and the confidence to bring them together and not feel defensive. And I think this is a huge lesson for us, Gray, as business leaders, is to know that we can surround ourselves with people, whether they're on our team or if they're mentors that we work with, or if they're masterminds that we join, whether they're just network relationships that we build. We need to surround ourselves with people that are smarter than us. And that should be kind of a sign. You always want to be the dumbest person in the room. That's what my dad used to tell me growing up. And I think that's something to strive for. Instead of being someone who has to prove how smart you are or prove how original your thought processes are, surround yourself by people who've been there, done that before, and you're going to be in a position to win a lot of things, leveraging that team that's surrounding you.

If I could add on to that, I think that don't be the smartest person or hire people that are smarter than you sounds intimidating to people because it's like, well, anybody who's smarter than me, I want to make a good amount of money. If someone's smarter than me, they probably want to make even more money than I want to make. How am I going to hire those people or whatever else? I don't really think that. And that's. I used to think of it as, like, overall smarter than you, and now I don't think of it that way. I think of it as like, I want to hire people who are smarter than me in that specific context that I need them. You don't need to be a better baseball coach than I am because that has no bearing on the success of what we do with our business right now. I need you to be better than me at these specific things, at web development or at SEO or at coaching and leading people or whatever specific things that we need. So I think of it more as, like, you want people who are clearly superior to your skill set in that specific role, even if it's what we think of as more menial.

Tasks.

A virtual assistant people. Often, I think it's easy to look down at someone who's in that type of role, but really, I want that person to be better than me at handling certain tasks that I have.

Yeah. And I think it's important to surround yourself with those people and to share with them your vision, share with them where you're trying to go, what you're trying to do. But then empower them to act like, don't micromanage those people, don't micromanage those experts. Bring them in, teach them the system, share the vision, get them bought into that vision and then let them operate. Because otherwise you're going to lose those people fast because you're not entrusting them with the process that you're asking them to control right there. So that's something that Eisenhower did as President is he built a diverse cabinet of people from both political influences, from the business sector, from higher education, from the military. He surrounded himself with all these people and he entrusted them to run their operation. And that freed him as the commander in chief to only deal with those big high level issues that kind of bubbled their way up to the top. He wasn't stuck down micromanaging and all the minutiae. So that's number one, have the self confidence to surround yourself with smart people. Number two was to practice solitude. And where you see this come out, you see a lot of different points in his life. But one point that really stuck out to me was leading up to the decision to launch the D Day invasion. This is something that had been over two years in the making. It was going to be the largest movement of men and materials in history and all of it rested on General Eisenhower's shoulders to say, yes, we're going. And when it came time to actually make the decision, all of the decision makers, all the different generals and meteorologists and everyone were around the table sharing their opinions. And Eisenhower asked for everyone's opinion. Everyone shared their perspective. But what happened was he didn't take a vote on should we go or not. He asked for everyone's expert opinion and he took over 10 minutes in just complete silence. And just picture this room where you're about to launch the biggest invasion in the history of the world. And it's completely silent. And he's just sitting there thinking and contemplating what to do. And what he's doing as a leader in this situation is he is blocking out the noise and allowing his mind to just process all of the inputs that he has been soaking in from the people around that table leading up to it. All of the everything that's brought him to this place, he's processing it in that moment of silence. And there's a cool episode. We'll throw the link on the comments here and blog post as well on the art of manliness. Podcast that talks about this moment in Eisenhower's life as well and in other moments, other leaders lives. How you leverage solitude to basically open up the subconscious mind to process all of the inputs that are coming in. But it's a powerful leverage tool that we can use as leaders. Especially with so much noise on social media, our inbox, clients asking for our attention. It's easy to allow kind of the chaos of the everyday to get the better of you. But what you want to do is be able to collect inputs, use solitude to then maintain perspective on those inputs and make strategic decisions on those. And Eisenhower was a great example of someone who could do that and then decisively act when it was time to act.

Doesn't solitude sound intimidating though? How much time do I need? Is that like I'm taking every single weekend completely offline? Is that like I'm meditating for an hour every morning? Is there any recommendations you have for people who are similar to me? Like, okay, I understand that's important. At different periods of my life, I've been better and worse at it, but how do I, if I need more of that right now? Like, where do I, I've got three kids, I'm coaching a high school sport, I'm running a business. Where do I like, how do you talk to someone who's in. And that's like, my situation is not unique. Obviously pretty much everyone listening is, yeah, we're, we're running an agency because we're the type of people who get involved and do stuff.

Exactly.

Where do we find time?

Yeah, and this doesn't have to be like a weekend retreat where you're by yourself and you shut out all inputs, although that would be healthy for people. Practicing solitude can just be going for a 15 minute walk and not having a podcast in and not checking your slack notifications. That's the thing is when you allow those interruptions to come in, it derails kind of the heavy lifting that your subconscious mind is doing. We're leaders of businesses, we're leaders of organizations, right? So we're the ones tasked with solving the big problems. And if we are constantly allowing ourselves to be interrupted by the chaos of notifications of just the curiosity of, oh, what's going on on Facebook, what's going on on Twitter right now? We don't give our minds the opportunity to sit and chew on all the stuff that we learn, all of the client conversations that we have, all of the blog posts that we've read, you know, we don't allow ourselves that capacity, that space to interpret that information, kind of crunch it down and use that to solve the problems that we're facing. So practically it can mean a 15 minute walk. It can mean just turning the radio off on your commute instead of having the radio on. So it's finding those little opportunities, like no extra time. Is it Tony Robbins, who advocates that a lot, like, what are those moments in your life where you're already doing something in the shower? Like tuning out? You don't need more content, you need more space to process the content. Is, I guess, the kind of the rule of thumb there. So we have little things. Great. It doesn't have to be huge amounts of time, but for me it's walking into the office without listening to a podcast and just allowing that silence to kind of. To process kind of what's in the backlog of my mind.

I think for our personality types especially, and that's a broad statement, but the type of people who are entrepreneurial, where we understand opportunity cost, we understand a lot of concepts that make us think, I could be learning, I could be adding. And we are kind of obsessed with adding and creating value and building things in whatever context and shift that that takes. So the thing that I found most helpful is I need to be doing something where I have an excuse to just sit there or to just do whatever. So whether that's like when we've gone fishing, it's like while we're fishing, realistically, I'm not catching anything, but I have an excuse for why I'm not doing something else or at my computer or doing something. Showers. I know Marcus Sheridan has shared on a podcast episode about how he it's not uncommon to take multiple showers a day. And for me, that's something that it's like, well, this is part of my routine and I don't have, obviously I can't be working or I'm not listening to stuff. I don't use the Bluetooth speaker in the shower because it's a great time to just kind of think. It's not very long, it's quick, but there's something that I need to be doing or if I'm working with my hands or doing something physical. Carrying equipment around for baseball is like a form of rest or like kind of relaxing for me because I have to be using my body to do something else and I don't have, depending on the current state that I'm in, at least, like, I'm not actively trying to process any one thing. Just kind of sitting there, driving in the car is Another one that always leads to ideas. It's like, well, I'm stuck here on the road for another four hours. What am I going to do? Okay, yeah, I guess my mind will just kind of take over. So I think, I think you're right that it doesn't need to be big, but it does need to be something where you're not stressing out about what you ought to be doing instead of just sitting there.

Exactly. That's awesome. So number three is protect your focus. And one cool anecdote that Smith shared in the book was a moment that happened just after Eisenhower was inaugurated as president. A member of the White House staff came up to him with an unopened envelope kind of on a tray. And Eisenhower said, I don't open envelopes. That's why I have a staff. And at first thought that sounds pretty snobby, right? Like I don't open my mail. I've got people that do that. But when you kind of dig into it and you understand why he said that, you see the wisdom in it. What he's doing right there is he's protecting the inputs. He's protecting what shows up on his desk. And I think as entrepreneurs today, we are horrible at this because we want to always be on top of things. We always see what's coming in. I know I struggle with putting systems in place that filter out what actually gets your attention. Your focus as a business owner is one of the leading determining factors of how successful you're going to be. Like, what are you applying yourself to? What are those problems that you're allowing yourself to think about? Like what gets in front of you, what gets your attention right there? So do you have systems and processes in place? Is your team structured in a way to solve problems that you don't need to be solving? Like as a business owner, you got your $10 task, your $100 tasks, your thousand dollar tasks. Are you, do you have systems in place to make sure that you're not doing all of those things, but you're only tackling the things that maximize your output that are like the most profitable for you? Profitable in revenue, like doing client work, but also profitable in terms of growing your business? Are you scaling by applying your focus to the right areas? Right.

What was the context where he's writing about that? Was the context like, here's an envelope that I just want you to open, or was it like a ceremony where he's like, here's this, here's a cool.

No, it was in the office. So it was Just, it was, he'd just become President, it was the first day on the job, and I guess they were just following the protocol of what it had been for the previous administration. Like, here's a piece of mail. I don't know if it's from the general public or if it was from someone else, but his response was very abrupt, very blatant. And as classic Eisenhower, he ran his entire administration the way he would run an army, where each cabinet member, instead of just being kind of someone who's there and shares their opinion from time to time, he viewed them as a general of an army. So whoever was the Secretary of the treasury, that was his unit and he was in charge of running it. And Eisenhower made sure that they were on the same page about the policies. But then he would entrust that person completely. And what was really cool is this. It was Eisenhower who really maximized the cabinet meeting. And he had them every single week. He met with everyone, followed a very strict agenda, and he took complete control of the meeting in the process. And he was one of the first presidents to actually regularly implement that and ran it like a machine, man. He had a very strict process. It protected the inputs that he got. So he spent his time solving big, big problems. And that's our role as business leaders is how do we put systems and processes in place that pull us out of the weeds and put us on top of the business so we can guide the ship essentially in the direction where we're trying to go?

Right. Well, props to him, man. If someone brings me my mail on a platter, go ahead and open that.

Exactly. So that's point number three. Point number four is lead your team by assuming command and taking ownership. And this is a really cool story where he did this a lot. But one specific situation was kind of during the early stages of the Cold War, the United states had these U2 spy planes. And these things were kind of cool. They could fly at 70,000ft. And at this point, the Soviet fighter planes could only go up to like 50,000ft. And so as I'm reading about this story, I'd heard about it before in the past, but this is kind of the first, like blow by blow. I heard the Russian fighter pilots would know that the plane was there. They would get up to that 50,000 foot point and then their engine would stop. So this like reconnaissance plane is flying overhead. These fighter planes are trying to get up to it. The Soviets didn't have the technology to knock this plane out of the sky until they did. When they did. It was an embarrassment for the Eisenhower administration because one of his, like, one of the things that made Eisenhower so popular was his authentic personality. Like, he always told the truth. And that was like, he's kind of a classic, you know, Middle America kind of guy. And that's what made him so likable by the army staff and by politicians alike. And so that's what he was leaning on in his relationship with the Soviets, was, I'm telling you, everything. And so when this came out, it really blemished the whole administration and it was really the. I think it was the Secretary of State Dulles who was really pushing this really hard. And Eisenhower could have easily swept that guy on the rug, under the rug, made him walk the plank essentially and say, hey, this was his initiative. But since Eisenhower was the one who put his stamp of approval on it, he took complete ownership of this. And this was. He blatantly disregarded some political advice to the contrary. But this was just how he operated. It was kind of his ethos for leadership. He took ownership of this. And by taking ownership of this decision to run these surveillance flights over Ukraine and over Russia, he actually lost an opportunity for some peace negotiations. He was working on some nuclear test restrictions and some disarmament movements early on in the Cold War. And all of those talks got put off by this assumption of ownership right here. But what it allowed him to do was move. Once he kind of swallowed that pride and kind of took those lumps, he was able to move through that a lot faster. And so they were able to overcome the crisis, even with the Soviets, to then move forward beyond that relatively quickly because he took ownership. And this jumped right off the page for me. From an agency perspective, how many times do we have times where our clients come to us and they're complaining about team members or they're like someone drops a ball somewhere and it ends up on your plate. And it can be easy to throw a team member under the bus. But remember, we're agencies and our rate limiting factor is our team and our team's ability to execute on the solutions that we're providing for our clients. And your job is to foster that family that you have inside of your agency. And so as a leader, take command of that role and take ownership of what happens at the agency. If it's someone's fault, you can address that internally, make sure it doesn't happen again. But when it comes to externally presenting United Front and take ownership of that, it's going to be, it's going to win you points with your team because they're going to see that, oh, he's protecting us. They're creating a safe place for us. And it's going to give you points with the client because you're going to step up, own it and be able to move on a lot faster. They're going to respect you more because you're someone who takes ownership over something like that. So that was big for me. Gray. I like that one a lot.

That's cool. One of the reasons I love sports so much, these are just going to continue going. This is the life of dealing with a coach, is just the transparency that's involved there. So certain contexts where we understand, or at least there's like a culture of more of a culture of taking ownership, and I guess this even varies even within the sport. But I feel like, you know, if we. Our pitcher just has a terrible day and we lose, like, it's a team loss. It's a. Obviously one person underperformed. But there's a culture of like, we own that as a team. Now, on an individual development basis, there's plenty of blame shifting. You know, there's plenty of kids who are, well, I didn't get this opportunity or I didn't. Like, it's all someone else's fault. And it's much more individual. But there's this culture as an organization, normally for teams, where it's like, we own our own success or failure, and that's a team thing. And one of the big differences between what we do on the baseball field and what happens in the agency is the level of transparency. Anyone can come and watch and see. We don't really need to address it because everyone kind of understands and sees. Well, here's part of what played into that. I say that, but maybe that's not true because there's plenty of irrational people who. Their own version of what happens isn't the same. But we have less transparency into the whole process in the agency context. So it's easier to hide and to point fingers and to say, well, this happened, and they'll have no way of knowing whether that was true or not. So when we have that veil of protection, it's easier to try and deceive people. Or sometimes it's accurate, sometimes it's not accurate.

Yeah.

So we need to fight against that. I think that doesn't mean. I'm not saying open up every single thing that you do and have it all on video so that your clients can watch and instant replay it back and forth and see who actually Dropped the ball where. Yeah, or when things go well, regardless, it's not fix. It's fix our own character and develop ourselves. Like, strengthen and sharpen our moral compass and do the right thing.

Take responsibility, stepping up and taking ownership. Man, it's. It's funny how simple it is, but also, like, how refreshing it is when you see it in action. And that really jumped off the page when I was reading that about Eisenhower. The last thing I want to highlight is this one was. This one was really interesting because I think we think of, like, presidents that were generals. And two examples that kept coming up was Ulysses Grant and General Eisenhower. And you think, like, oh, they're generals. Like, they're going to be itching for war. But both of those examples were people who had seen the reality of what war was and wanted to stay as far away from it as possible. But a policy that Eisenhower had was, if you're going to commit ground forces, do so with overwhelming force. Like, don't put one foot in and one foot out. And that is a principle that we can take to decisions that we make as business leaders. Initiatives that we undertake is, number one, if you're going to do something, think long and hard and strategically about what is the reality of the cost of this initiative. Should we tackle it from this direction? Are there any directions that we should tackle it from that we're not seeing? Like, how is this going to impact all other areas of the business? And then once you make a decision that this is something that we want to do, go all in on it. Like, don't go half in and say, okay, we're going to try to do it a little bit here. No, go all in and make it happen. Like, put your best foot forward to win right there and not try to, like, you know, play something halfway, but go all in on it. Eisenhower did that in a couple different situations. D Day was a big one where they just went all in on that. They wanted to go in earlier, but since they couldn't muster the full force to really hit it hard the way that they wanted to, they held it back. During the desegregation policies that were happening under Eisenhower in high schools, when they were bringing high schools together, he deployed the 101st Airborne unit to Little Rock, Arkansas, to oversee and break up mob violence and everything right there. He could have done that with just, like, a little force, but he sent the entire group there, and it just made an overwhelming statement of, like, the federal government is coming in to reinforce the law of the land right here. And because he did that. That swift action that really nipped a lot of things in the bud right there. As you're leading and as you're thinking about different initiatives you can go into, into 2019, I challenge you to analyze what you want to do. Pick the one or two things are going to have the most impact and go all into those things. And don't allow multiple initiatives to dilute your focus because you're not going to get value out of them. Go all in. You're going to commit the ground forces, commit to overwhelming force on those few initiatives and really knock them out of the park.

That's great that you know how I get one idea or theme stuck in my head roughly probably every six weeks or so. So, like, earlier this summer, it was more and more. And then whatever you're obviously thinking of or you're already partial too, is just what you see everywhere you look. So it's like your greatest strength is your greatest weakness. That was a theme earlier this year. Still a theme for me. And then lately it's been this idea of, like, trying to understand the decision that you're making. Like, the real decision that you're making. Not do I want to start an agency or not? But do I want to start this type of business? Am I the type of person? Like, is this the type of thing that I aspire to do? What's the reality of the decision that I'm making? So I think this is a good. This aligns really well with that concept of, like, figure out what's the real decision that you're making? Obviously you need to do the analysis and figure out, is this what I. Is this the type of thing that I want to do? But once you do, are you the type of agency who specializes in something, or are you the generalist who just continues to say, yes? And if we back up and look at all the examples and history shown us, like, who has more success? What are the pros and cons of both of these? What are the lifestyles that these types of agency owners live? What are the sizes that these tend to accrue and what are the revenues that they tend to build? What are the margins they operate at? All the different questions that are there to be asked once you make a decision, or once you realize that decision, make a decision and then go all in on that decision and don't back off because it's not working and waiver back and forth, but realize the decision that you're making. And then, like you talked about from the Eisenhower example, is just Go all in.

Make it happen. So those are the five points.

There it is, the five points. That's great. I'm glad you got through the book and you're able to distill it.

Good takeaways. I'd recommend it if you're a history buff or if you just want to learn how. You want to learn more about something you didn't know about. That's why I went into it. It was worth the trip, man.

What's next on the reading list?

I've got three books that I'm thinking about. I got one on Churchill. Obviously, I'm a Churchill fan. I've got one on George Washington. I love George Washington. He's like, by. I've got a man crush on him. And then one on the Battle of the Bulge, which I don't want to go like, I want to nerd out on you guys on history. But the Battle of the Bulge was result. Well, this is oversimplifying it, but that was at a moment in the war when General Eisenhower took direct field command. And like I said earlier, he had never done that before. And so General Montgomery, who was with the British forces, was like, very, very experienced at that aspect of war, as was General Patton, as was General Bradley. Like, these are all on the ground, folks. Well, Eisenhower kind of overruled that, took direct command on the ground. And the Battle of the Bulge was kind of a result of some strategic errors. Well, looking back in hindsight as 20 20, we would call them errors. He was applying some classic military principles that were brought over from World War I. But long story short, he made a blunder. But he corrected that blunder very quickly and actually wielded a big victory after or the Battle of the Bulge ended the way it did because of the way Eisenhower moved everything. And so I'm curious about digging into that a little bit more.

Well, that was just a little sneak preview of what did you say you started this book in July?

This is July. So around May, I'll come back to you guys. Yes, that's a reality.

All right. Well, we will wrap it up here. If you listen on the podcast, you're not yet a member in Agency Journey Insiders, go to agencyjourneyinsiders.com that'll redirect you to the Facebook group. You can join right there. We'd love to have you in and participating in the conversation as well. If you're watching live or you listen to this prior to Thanksgiving, Happy Thanksgiving to you. If you're in the U.S. if you're not in the U.S. you can still have a Happy Thanksgiving and be grateful, but enjoy the time and take the opportunity to find solace, solitude, find small ways to rest and count your blessings. This has been great. I appreciate you sharing with us here, Dimmer and everyone tuning in so we'll connect with you guys soon. Have a great week.

See you guys.