Building a Solid Financial Foundation With Adam Rundle

Welcome to the Agency Journey.

All right, welcome back to another episode of Agency Journey. This is Rundle from Clever Profits, Adam. I am a current customer of Adam's. Client of Adam's. Customer. Customer sounds.

We would say customer. We would say client actually. But you can say.

Right, right. So I'm excited. We'll dive into to what Clever Profits is a clever profit story. What you guys are doing, our working relationship, all that good stuff. Adam, thanks for joining me, man.

Great. Thanks for having me. Yeah, great to be here. Great to talk to you and share some thoughts with you and your audience. And thanks for being a client. Clearly we're doing something right somewhere. Maybe we can chat about that at some point. That's a good thing to always know what to do. Well, but John, pleasure to be here.

So let's get a little bit of the backdrop because obviously people listening are like, oh, he's not from Pennsylvania. Great. Wonder what's going on here. So your story, there's so many things I want to hear about, but give us kind of the backdrop and then how the accounting side of things and bookkeeping and financial world came about.

So, yeah, I'm definitely not from Pennsylvania. Born and bred, South Africa, a little town called Pretoria. Well, not little, it's actually the capital city, but not many people know that. But Pretoria and South Africa then went down to the University of Cape Town, which is by far and away the best part of South Africa on the coast. Studied there, studied accounting and was very fortunate to get involved in a law firm as I finished college as their, as an accountant as they, you know, the way things happen in the world is always pretty incredible and reflection. But they pretty big law firm, 150 people, old school leadership or like old school partners and everything. And the guy who was running their finance, who was a lawyer, who was the head of the finance one had transitioned out. They were kind of looking for someone. I met a guy. The rest is history. I kind of come in as this little whippersnapper, new dude on the block just to help him and just really enjoyed the environment and was very fortunate to grow over those four years with them pretty heavily to us eventually essentially a CFO and sitting in the executive meetings and telling some of the guys who have been there for 45 years how much they can pay themselves and what kind of bonus they can take. It was kind of fun. Just learned this. I learned the practical application of what I had studied, which was a lot of fun. And I really, I think I got an incredible opportunity to do that in A unique way. And not just sitting at a big four firm working on one small part of finance. I kind of got to see the whole picture and more importantly how the picture translated to decisions. And I think that's why Clever Profits is what it is. It's why I am who I am. Because that's the part I enjoy the most is anyone can run a P and L, anyone can reconcile an account, but what you do with it is where everything that's the value. And so I got to experience that firsthand, which was a lot of fun. And then my wife, we wanted to do something a little bit different. She's a South African as well and she lived here in America for a couple of. For a year in 2014, internship on Capitol Hill, blah blah blah. And we wanted to do something different and we decided America would be fun. And so we moved to Annapolis where she was from, where she spent that year. Incredible community of people. And I had to make some money. So I decided to start my own little accounting firm. It was called ABR Consulting originally. I'm pretty sure most people listening here would know about conversions. AI Dave Rogemoser they were running a business called Before Proof, actually called Privet and Scale and Entrepreneurial Alliance. They were my first ever client. They used to live here in Annapolis, the three partners. And they got me connected to a lot of people, more clients, exposure. And then they ended up starting Proof and then went off and did the whole SaaS thing and moved to Austin and stuff, which is awesome for them. And then just that grew and was happening. And then I met Brian Newman who's my business partner now and he's the tax guy based out of California and just realized like hey, I can't do this without him. If I don't have a tax guy, I'm nothing. And then Taylor Profits was formed. He had Clever Taxes was his business. So we stole his IP and his name and his logo and everything. Threw more my clients in the ring and we came together and Clever profits was born. And you know, now we're 35 people and you know, lots of clients and trying to change the world. You guys.

Obviously there's a lot of similarities between what you do and what a digital agency. I mean same type of client relationships. Like P L structure would look a lot similar between. Between both. But you mentioned something there is kind of like a throwaway comment. Not really a throwaway comment but just a one liner that's similar between you and me. But you can definitely see mountain the way that you live which is focusing in on what decisions do people make off of that. What do you actually drive? What's the behavior that gets driven by the data that gets produced from the financial team? And you see that coaching art, like in everything that you're doing, even with some of the stuff that you're doing, building out kind of on the. Not the core of a profits business, but also from a coaching perspective. Which transitions me into what I really had you on to talk about for 30 minutes, which was rugby. Everyone says that at some point you're still coaching, right?

I am, yeah. Look, I missed over this because I'm an accountant. Now I'm going to come forward as an accountant. My biggest desire growing up was to become a professional rugby coach. And I was coaching at a very high level in South Africa as a.

Wait, your desire was to be a coach, not a player?

Yeah, coach. I was never really a good player and I don't think I enjoyed the game. I played the game, but I just, I love coach coaching. I had this passion for coaching. I probably spend more money trying to become a professional rugby coach than I did to become an accountant. A lot of investment into that time. Time in New Zealand, time in Europe. Just a lot of time and effort and realizing and, you know, hard life. Is it really what I wanted? I don't know. Still question, like, I'm a young guy, maybe anything can happen. But the transition from America to South Africa to America was a big realization that, hey, I've got to, I've got to do something else. I can't just coach as much as I want to. And so that I think a lot of what I brought to the my business world is that coaching element because I'm so passionate about it and I love it. And I think what you're hitting on is it's just so. It's ingrained in me. I think anyone who's ever worked with me would say like, oh, you're a pretty decent coach. And that just because I've done it for so long, maybe in a different context and learned how to do it in this context. But I coach at the U.S. naval Academy, which is fun, which is great. Have a lot of fun with that. Heading to practice after this podcast, which will be fun, but nothing that active. I mean, it's more hobby now than anything else.

I don't know. Your LinkedIn says attack coach. Is that still accurate?

Yeah, I'm the attack coach.

I have zero idea what that means. I mean, I would assume that's an off.

It's like an offensive coordinator, right? Like an offensive coordinator. But I mean, the relationship between rugby and football is very different. Football's a very different type of game. I have a ton of respect for it. I actually find it hard in some ways to watch, but love watching it in some ways. You know, football's a lot more strategic and so there's a lot more people involved in that world where rugby's a little bit more simplistic in that it's a lot more of a free flowing game. So there's only three coaches, there's only three of us. You know, we don't have a 15 man coaching staff. So an offensive coordinator is like managing players, team personnel, depth charts. So that's. I just manage a group of guys on a field and move the ball to where you want it to be. I mean, that's kind of my job. That's awesome.

So when did you and Brian get together?

You tell me dates now. I can't remember the exact time. I mean, I think it was middle of 18.

Okay.

I. We had a mutual client and I just realized, okay, this, this is the kind of guy I want to work with. This is the kind of guy I want to do this with. And we just had awesome conversations from then. The union was simple and easy.

And then the goal, because you guys have grown a lot in a short amount of time. Was the goal similar from the beginning or is this kind of organically evolved?

Yeah, I think the goal was. I don't know if we truly articulated the level of growth and I don't know, I don't think we were probably a little bit surprised by the level of growth, to be honest. But we always knew that this was the vision, that we wanted to build something and build something of decent size and decent impact and our visions aligned there and we work exceptionally well together. And, and it was, you know, I've consulted many, many, many people on partnerships to my job. You know, I'm CFO and help people think about partnerships and stuff like that. And I always have to remind myself that my, my, my real life experience with Brian was like the easiest thing in the world. Like it was like three or four phone calls and we knew we wanted to do this and we just carried on. And you know, some people don't have that experience. Some people, it's. It's a pretty painful experience at times. So just what I'm trying to say is like we were just so aligned. It was easy. It's like, yeah, we can do this, let's go.

Right. I'M going to describe what you guys do from the outside so that, and then you, you can, you'll describe it.

Better than me, that's for sure. Because you experience that. I don't. I just on the inside.

So you guys start similar to what a lot of agencies do. But you guys start. You call it the profit accelerator. It's a six week program. It's actually a little bit different from what agencies are doing. Strategy is a piece of it, but you're doing a lot of historical catch up bookkeeping kind of get you up to speed in terms of where you are now, get the benchmark in place and then form. Okay, here's what needs to happen. Here's a recommendation. For a lot of agencies there's a little bit of time and attention spent on where your current marketing is, but most of the time ideation. I think there's a lot more forward looking strategy and ideas than catch up work. Not that you guys aren't doing the forward looking strategy, but most agencies aren't doing as much in terms of hey, let's go back and fix things as part of this. Then you move into what agencies think of as the retainer model and that's where you guys are doing the bookkeeping and tax prep for clients. The has, has that been the model from the beginning or did you guys start selling straight into the retainer?

Yeah, we started straight to retainer. I mean originally, you know, my first, first few clients were all just retainer. Like hey, how can I help you get better? And what we realized is we're a sticky service. Not everyone's looking for a new accountant every second day of the week or a new doctor or new lawyer. They relatively grudge purchases. No one's waking up in the morning. So I can't wait to pay my accountant today or I can't wait to pay my lawyer. It's that kind of world. And we're not naive. We know that that's the kind of world. And so the profit accelerator was designed to do two things. It was to give us an opportunity internally to, to really figure out whether we can help someone. And, and there lies the fundamental of the historical work. Like if we don't do the historical, I don't have, we don't have a crystal clear objective view of what's happening in your business. Anything I tell you is going to be Sh1t. Anything I, you know, I can tell anyone how you can build a skyscraper. Like anyone can do that. But can you do it based on your foundation and where you are. And what you're doing, it's a different story. So there's that part, but then also the part that we realized for the client is this is a commitment they want to make and they're not looking to have. I think agencies are more disposable. People can kind of bounce around a little bit. They can have two or three different agencies in a year, and it's not that painful. I'm not saying it's not painful. It's painful, but it's not as overwhelmingly painful as having two or three different accountants. That would be excruciating. And so we disrespectfully to people like, hey, we don't expect you to sign your life away. Just this is two or six weeks. You're going to get what you need anyway. You need the foundation. Whether you think you need or not, you have to have it. You're going to get the strategy, which is going to help you. You're going to get a tax plan which is going to help you. But also you're going to be like, hey, these are some up. It's like, I don't want to work with him. Or you're going to be like, hey, these guys are cool. Like, I enjoy working with him. And I think there's. I think that's a good way to start the relationship. I think it helps both parts.

This is a much more technical question, but why six weeks? And I know that's not like, there's.

Probably four major deliverables, and so four weeks would be like cheap as you would be really good because you can't mess up a week. And eight weeks would be too long because you're twiddling your thumb. So I think six weeks just feels like good buffer point, good time frame. And we said, everyone, it's six weeks, but it's really until delivery. Right. If it takes us quicker to deliver, we quicker deliver. It takes us longer. We'll communicate through that. But the time frame is roughly six weeks. Right, Right.

Makes sense. That's awesome. On the back end, you guys are. Is every client doing bookkeeping and tax prep.

So we have a couple of tiers. So our lowest tier, we've got like three tiers. The lowest tier is the compliance office. So mainly just bookkeeping, accounting and taxes with a monthly report from your account manager with all of them videos saying, hey, this is what's happening. And access in Slack to kind of chat to us and your account manager and your team whenever you need them. That's kind of the lower Tier. The next tier is more strategic. Big emphasis on team growth, on you trying to grow your team, trying to hire people, build compensation structures, that kind of stuff. So we're looking, you know, you have an account manager you're going to meet, you know, once every two weeks. You're going to have a little CFO strategy call once every two weeks to get the lay of the land, what's happening. Normally, weekly reports are sent out and then everything else that's below that, obviously all that bookkeeping, accounting and tax work is carried through. And then the top tier is. The next level is executive level. So sitting as a CFO on your executive team. So, yeah, we're looking at businesses who have an executive team. They have a CEO, coo, cmo. There's a group of four or five people sitting at the top every week, sitting in executive meeting, making decisions. We will sit on as the CFO in that. And there's normally just more calls, more interaction, more interaction with the team. So it's just a little bit more in depth, hands on the business.

Very intrusive question, but I'm going to ask it anyways. Feel free to decline to answer. I would assume in a business like that that it's similar to any distribution where 80% or, you know, whatever, the majority are lowest here.

Yeah, vast majority. I mean, I think we are on. I'm going to lie to you now because I don't know the exact number, But I think 250 or something. I don't know how many clients, something like that. And I would say it's 15, 20 on the top end, maybe 50, 60 in the middle and the rest of the bottom.

Right.

And I mean, you know, our hope, and this is not sales talk, it's just our hope is that we move people along the cycle. Like, hey, if you be smaller and just started, we want to help you go through the tiers and get to the top. That's. That's helpful for us, that's good for us, and that's also good for you. So it's all geared for that. I mean, that doesn't always happen, and that's neither here nor there, but that's the vision.

Yep. I mean, I haven't worked with a million accounting firms. We had Josh barely on the podcast probably, I don't know, a year and a half ago, who's a good friend and accountant. Have you ever heard of the podcast Entrepreneurs on Fire? Entrepreneur on Fire.

What's his name? The CPA on Fire? His name is John Dumas.

Is it yeah, correct. That's the. The podcaster. So John Lee Dumas got super famous for. Not super famous. I mean, in our very small niche. Yeah, he got famous for having a podcast every single. Doing these entrepreneurial interviews. Josh Bauerly, accountant running CP on fire, cold emailed John saying, hey, love the podcast. You need some tax help, as he was going out on his own, and it wound up being perfect timing. So he got to deal with him. I did not know that at the time, but maybe a year or two later, I'd heard John on the podcast, we needed a new accountant. I cold emailed him, I said, hey, your website's terrible. We need an accountant. Do you need a new website? So we wound up trading services back and forth for a number of years, where we do the marketing and web stuff and all of our financials in bookkeeping, which is helpful and funny. So anyway, that. Long story short, we haven't worked with a ton of different accounting firms, but you guys interface with your clients in Slack. So the cool thing is there's a monthly report. You send it with a loom video each month. And obviously depending on what year of service you're on, it's monthly or weekly or whatever, but you've got Slack access. So you guys have these things that are. I'm gonna assume more and more firms will move to this, but a pretty modern communication tech stack, at least with clients. Am I right that. That's abnormal. And then has that been a piece of. I feel like that was undersold and this might be positioning. I feel like that was almost undersold.

I'm taking notes. I'm taking notes. What did I tell you.

Of the distinction, I guess, in communication styles between that and a number of past experiences?

Yeah, I think it also morphed itself. We were email originally and. And I'm trying to rack my brain now to. To remember why we did this. I remember why we did the weekly report and the monthly report. That was also not a thing for a long time. And that started because I found it hard to keep up with all the clients. Originally it was just me and I had a small team of people, but I found it hard for me to keep up with where everyone was at. So what I did for two months is I just created a report for myself to know where people are. And then the guy on my team was like, why don't we just send this to people, because this is super helpful. And then there was. The report was born and now it's a massive part. So that was pretty Cool. But then the communications, and that's part of the communication is that helped us improve communication. And we don't think I'm not this clever, okay? Like I'm not that we didn't do the report to improve communication. We did a result that'll be helpful. But what it did do is it massively improved communication. Because one of the biggest problems with accountants is lack of communication. And so, and the longer that the communication is, as long as there's a lack of communication, both parties, I mean this is important for people to understand. Both parties fail because you're going, you're a client, you're going, well, if this like I need my stuff, okay, I want to know what's going on. But I can guarantee to you that the accountant is gone so far that it's hard for him to even just or her to deliver because they're just so far without the note. And that was my problem. I was like, I can't keep up anymore. And so I created this mechanism for me to keep up, which now became better communication. So that was not born out of trying to be innovative, just born out of a little desire. And then I remember the slack was just clients, clients were using slack and we'll ask the question, hey, can't we just use slack? And we're like, what is it? Let's try. And then we tried it and realized like, yeah, if you want to the age old story, if you want to sell someone something, go to their world, go into their world and be part of their world and then you can you consult them. So if we want to serve our people, go into their world, let's have a button next to their button on Slack so that they don't have make it easy for them. And I think it is pretty, pretty modern I guess. But I would, I would say imperative in the modern age. I mean I feel like, you know, communication is key in our services. We're done for you. Not done with you. We're done for you. Communication is key. We need to know what's going on. You need to know what's going on. It's symbiotic. We can't do our job if we don't know. You can't do your job if you don't know. So communication is huge. And we just had a creative project internally 2 weeks ago on 3 weeks ago on how to improve communication on Slack because we don't feel like it's good enough. So yeah, great, we are on slack, but we're still trying to improve that Because I feel like it can always be improved because it's fundamental to our job.

Made a big point that I think every early service provider gets wrong, which is thinking silence is good. If I don't hear anything, then things are good.

It's totally okay. And, and, and silence can, silence, Silence can happen. But you don't need to come from you. Hey, for sure you, you make noise. You may get silence in return, but you keep asking the question. Don't stop asking the question. Ask for feedback. Ask for what do you need? Just don't stop because that, that's an important thing to do.

Yeah. Okay, so let's, let's switch over. I could ask you a million questions about the business and wife. Great. I'm sure some of those will probably still sneak through. You guys work with a lot of online entrepreneurs, agencies, course creators, like people in the online education and agency service type space. And if I'm miscategorizing, feel free to clarify that. But common mistakes, kind of principles of what you guys apply because similar to. So we've got this whole methodology when we're working with clients. Here's the way. And there was actually a ton of compatibility with kind of our framework for how businesses should run and your framework from another layer of detail on the financial performance side of the business. And you guys have a specific methodology, specific way of breaking down and categorizing work. But before we get to that, I guess what are the common pain points that you see when people are coming to you? What are the common things that you have to go in and fix that you wish that agencies and similar businesses would just get right?

Yeah. I'll try and get you some concise answers. I think the, the first thing is the simplicity factor. I strongly believe in simplicity. Keep it simple. The very few things in the world need to be truly complicated. Very, very few things. And I'm not saying that. I'm not an absolute statement. There are things that do need to be, but very few things need to be. And I can tell you right now, finances does not need to be complicated at all. It can feel complicated and it can feel overwhelming, but doesn't need to be. And we achieve that by key drivers. So what we identified is what are the key drivers to make any business work. So this is focus on those. And I think the mistake that people are making is they're not focusing on that. That's the mistake is that there's too many sideshows. You know, often get on a call with someone and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I Just need to do my, my bookkeeping so I can file my taxes. And I would go, you do realize that that's like the, it's a 100% byproduct of your business filing taxes. Important fundamental. You can't not do it. You have to do it. And there's an obligation so everyone freaks out about it. But it's a 100% byproduct. If your only interest in the world is to file taxes, please don't ever pay a bookkeeper at the end of the year. Take all your stuff, find someone on Upwork who understands accounting. Lots of them say, hey, can you please prepare my books for me? Give him a week, 500 bucks. They prepare your books for you, send it to your accountant, they'll file your taxes and you'll carry on. Great. If you want to make, you want to run a business so that you actually have taxes to pay, you're going to need that stuff every week. You want to know what's happening every single week. And so it's that focus point where what are you focusing? And that's just one of them. And the other ones are, hey, I'm focusing on do I have the right software in play. And I'm going, gives a shit about your software, buddy. You don't have an acquisition model, you don't have enough people paying you money. So forget about what software you have. Let's go find out how we can get what people pay us money so we can actually have a business. Or I'm trying to think about whatever and I'm not thinking about my team. You've got to. It's just the focus point and it's understanding what is, what is the focus point. And I talk a lot about constraints and other stuff. I do everything in the world is a series of constraints. You identify the most important one, you solve it and you move on to the next one. You move on to the next one, you move on to the next one. And it's just hierarching that. You just got to hire that and you've got to get the hierarchy right and you got to go and do it. And I think that's the mistake a lot of people are making is jumbled. They're putting the byproduct first. They're putting things that are really non needle movers at all front of mind, putting a lot of time and effort onto an 8020 principle and they're just losing out, losing opportunity, losing out the ability to truly grow it scale at the rate they want.

Yep. Definitely see that. I mean, same thing in our world.

Yeah, for sure.

We just did a webinar earlier today with HubSpot talking about automation, kind of making HubSpot and ClickUp, the platform that we implement primarily on work together. And please, like, please don't try and keep automating this stuff until you actually have a process that like we're skipping ahead here, it'll break. You guys have this model called the Perfect pnl which is I think from my outside perception what you're like one of the core methodologies that you're known for. Translated to Agency World. It's probably, it's still the same rough numbers, but there might be some tweaks to that model. Can you walk us through the perfect piano? Yeah, yeah.

So the idea of Perfect PNL is born out of a couple of things. I was, I really enjoyed playing chess when I was younger and I remember learning like how to, how to position your pieces in the best possible way to, for success. And the likelihood of you achieving that is very low because you are reacting to someone else. But if you understood, you know, where do I want my rook or where do I want my bishop, whatever, like to, to give them their best, you know, their best effectiveness on the board. That's an important thing to understand. So I remember that, I remember then I read Profit first. Then I read a book called Simple Numbers, Big Profits and realized like, I feel like there's just a lack of a framework of what is good in this world. So I was again, very self issue. I'm working with these clients. Perfect Pinot came later. So I'm working with these clients. I'm going, I don't even know whether they're doing well or not. Like I'm still trying to figure out whether that's a good profit margin or they're spending the right amount of money and they're asking me and I'm just like, oh, okay, well, trying to figure that out. And so again, out of massive personal desire, I was like, I need to, I need to know what is good or bad. And so we started formulating this thing called the perfect DNA, which is essentially what the perfect business would look like. And again that's, it's a very generic term because every business is different. But it's just a framework of what the perfect business would look like and where you're spending your money. And then we identified that big, big thing I don't like about traditional accounting is just there's just a random list of expenses in alphabetical order which is even worse. Just this random list of alphabetical order expenses in your P and L that kind of makes no sense. And actually every now and then I look at one because we get one from someone and I don't even know how to read it anymore. But it's like, it's confusing because the way I look at our is it got a uniqueness to it. And so we realized, okay, what we actually want to be doing is we want to be identifying the key areas of the business and we want to be measuring them so we can manage them. Not just overall profitability. It's not enough. I need micro numbers, I need numbers less than 5, 10, 15% to manage so that I can manage them and get a better good outcome. And so we identified what the key drivers were. And there are only two key drivers in every business. No matter what kind of business you are, there's a, there is a third if you're manufacturing or a SaaS company which is development or product, building the product or manufacturing the product. But by and large if you don't have that, there's only two and it's client, acquisition and fulfillment. Your ability to get a client and your ability to deliver. And those are the key drivers. That's the heartbeat of every business. We call it the golden ratio. That's where businesses thrive. And then the third one is overheads. Okay, so you have to have a. But they're the byproduct how much you spend on rent, software, insurance, utilities, merchant fees. Like it's all because of the other, other two. Okay, so we don't let those be the drivers, we let those be the followings. And so the perfect P and I'll just simply states top line revenue. What percentage of your revenue are you spending on acquisition? What percentage of your revenue are you spending on fulfillment? What percentage of your revenue are you spending on overheads? And then what's your pre tax profit? And in an ideal world, if you're an agency, you want to be spending about 10% on acquisition, about 45% on fulfillment and about 15% on overheads. Get your 30% pre tax profit number. Awesome number, really robust. I'll factor in some taxes, you got to go net profit. That's the perfect P and L. Now obviously give or take percentage points here or there based on different nuances, but that's the blueprint, high level, the really robust art. Factor in some taxes, you got a great net profit. That's the perfect P and L. Now obviously give or take percentage points here or there based on different nuances, but that's the blueprint, high level view of what the perfect P and L is.

Yep. That's awesome. That framework was really helpful as we were going through the profit accelerator to compare. And we have a very similar. We break everybody's hookup up for an agency into growth, delivery and operations, which is your parlance, acquisition, fulfillment and overhead. So super similar on that side. But even just putting dollars and cents to it. What does that mean from a comp structure perspective, from a retainer balance perspective? There's a lot of decisions go back to earlier that come out of how you structure because of that. You guys probably have looked at this. Do more clients come to you looking for bookkeeping help or CFO help or for tax help? And I would assume that's all very, very seasonal.

Yeah, this time of the year where every single person just tax help. And there's times of the year where they're nice, pretty seasonal. I don't know what the split is. And the reality is, you know, if you're looking for help with one, there's a high likelihood that you have. You probably need help with the others because they feed each other. You know, if you had a really solid bookkeeping thing in place, yes, you may need some tax help. But it's normally easy to find because you probably connected to the guys doing your bookkeeping or the person who's doing your bookkeeping. So, yeah, I mean, it's a bit of a mix. Seasonality is big and we try and just help people where they can. So if that's your focus, we're going to help you with that. And if we uncover anything else, hey, we'll see if we can help you there.

Right, Right. That makes sense. I've got so many other things I could grill you on, but we're at time here, so I'm gonna let you go. But before we do, let's put people in our direction. Cleverprofits.com is the site. Is there a better way, Adam, outside of just going to the site and booking a call through the site or reaching out through the site?

I mean, you could. Yeah, my email is adamprofits.com you can send me an email, you can see me on Facebook and just say what's up? On WhatsApp? On WhatsApp on Messenger, and I'll say what's up Back and we'll have a chat and see if we want to chat to you or not. Yeah, we don't have. It's funny, we've grown exponentially. We I would say got a fairly sized business but we're pretty simple in the sales side. Got one guy, Jacob Goodson, who's our sales guy and you know 90% of our work is referral so we actually don't do any marketing really. A little bit Cheryl there with some videos and and landing page like you know, little things here or there. So we just chat to us just say what's up and we'll say what's up and if we can help, we can help. If we can't, we can't. Great to get connected so keep it easy.

Awesome. Well, this has been really fun to do. We've enjoyed working with you and the team. I think it's an important resource for folks to know about. There's a lot of I've seen a lot of pop ups in the like outsourced CFO positioning world. Heard feedback on a bunch of different people. Remington Bagg was on the podcast recently. He gave Account Foley a shout out as another good firm. There's a handful of them but we hear about a lot that are not a great experience but been a great experience working with you guys. So I appreciate your time coming on. Be willing to share. Adam, thanks for joining us.

Yeah, great. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And to your audience just yeah, thanks for listening. Sorry for accounting's not always everyone's strong see or enjoyment factor of listening to. We try to make it a little bit more exciting. I think we're young people trying to make a difference in the world. But yeah, thanks for having me man. Thanks for listening to the Agency Journey podcast. Visit agencyjourneyinsiders.com to join the podcast community and be sure to subscribe for future episodes.