Danielle Urban: Scaling Marketing Ops & Flexible Leadership | Women of HubSpot

Welcome to the Women of HubSpot podcast, the show that celebrates the voices shaping marketing technology and the ever evolving HubSpot ecosystem. Hosted by George B. Thomas from Sidekick Strategies, each episode brings you the stories, strategies, and superpowers of the women driving this industry forward. It's their time. It's their mic. This is Women of HubSpot.

All right, it's your boy, George B. Thomas. We're back with another episode of Women of HubSpot Podcast, and I'm excited to be here today. I'm excited to see where this conversation goes. And by the way, if it's your first episode of watching or listening to this, if you're on YouTube, or if you're on Apple or Spotify, listen. This all started with a crazy LinkedIn post that started with a crazy conversation. My daughter, it was the super bowl, the Philadelphia Eagles were playing, and she started to talk about how the quarterback had an all women's team. And I saw her face light up and I saw how energized she was by the empowerment of this ability to. That somebody would do this. And I thought to myself, wow, this is incredible. I went to LinkedIn, I did a post, I said, if you know a woman of HubSpot, let's tag them. Let's shine the light on them. By the way, zero strategy. Just being a human who was impacted by a conversation with a daughter. Wow. Did the post go nuts? Like, absolutely bonkers. Probably like my highest, like, engaged post ever. To which then I looked at both of my daughters, my wife and I said, we've got to do something with this. We've got to start having conversations. And I have been on an amazing journey with some ladies, Courtney Sembler, amongst others. And today I'm here with Danielle Urban. Danielle, how the heck are you doing today?

I'm doing great. It's finally cooling off here in the Boston area. So I. We can, like, be outside again for more than five minutes.

There you go. Yeah, the temperatures have been running rampant in places, and then yet I've talked to some friends who were in Texas and they're like, yeah, it's crazily cool this time, which, who knows what's happening with the planet, but at least we can go outside and spend time and be cool and get some sunshine, because that's always good. Okay, Daniel, I'm going to warn you, these questions that we're going to go through, there's a little bit of, like, valley, and then we go into the peak because there's just some conversations that we need to have. And I'm super curious of, like, finding out more information about you, what makes you tick, and kind of how you got to where you are today. So let's go ahead and start at the very beginning here. Well, actually, before I do that, why don't you tell people who you are, what you do, and actually where you do it? Then I'll get into the first question that I want to ask you.

All right, so I'm based in the Boston area, but work with clients across the globe. Actually, we've got an Australia client. I've worked with people in Netherlands. So I'm the co founder and CEO of Cartographer Consulting. And so we come in to help companies optimize their processes. And it's usually not always, but usually B2B SaaS, companies that have their tech stack centered on HubSpot.

Nice. Nice. Got to love HubSpot being mentioned at the very beginning of this episode. Usually that's like, way later when I ask you one question, one question about HubSpot. Okay, let's dive into this. If we could go back in time. Time. Ship back to the future. What a Delorean. Whatever, whatever. And we could meet young Danielle Urban just starting out. One, what would we see? And two, Danielle, what would she be most proud or surprised by where you are now?

Back when I was in college, we won't go much further back than that, but I went into a business administration degree, and I sort of settled on that because I was like, I like psychology, but I don't want to be in school for like 12 years. Don't really love the clinical side of it. So what do I do instead? My dad was like, split the difference between business psychology. You end up in marketing. I was like, great, let's do that. So I did a couple internships, like, a lot of internships, and figured out, like, this actually is pretty great. This is a good fit. And so all through college, I was really focused on making sure that, you know, I was learning as much as I could. I went to Babson College, which has been number one in entrepreneurship for, like, 20 something years. Maybe they're up to 30 now. I don't even know. And so we all had to learn how to spell entrepreneurship. And it was ingrained in absolutely everything that we learned, down to, like, our science classes. We had to write, you know, how something could be commercialized. And so I laid the groundwork for what I'm doing now, not even really knowing that I wanted to end up here. You know, it felt like that was too Big and open ended for me at the time. And so I followed the corporate path and had some really awesome jobs, some really terrible jobs, but they all sort of fell into the same space where I was an early marketing hire, sometimes the first marketing hire, and had to set up systems to make myself look like 10 people. I fell into HubSpot quite often with that. Uh, so I did a handful of HubSpot implementations and just built up a really crazy skillset. And so now I think if my like 22 year old self were to look at where I am now, she would be most proud of the fact that I'm just like doing the damn thing. Like I, I get to define what my day looks like. I get to structure my life where my kids can be a priority, like the top priority. I have, you know, a schedule for myself. We get to travel, do interesting and fun things, live in a house that needs work but is still pretty great. So all the things that I kind of hoped for myself but never really knew how I was going to get there, I'm in a great spot.

I love kind of how you're already painting the picture of a journey of like, had some good jobs, had some bad jobs, was building a foundation that I didn't know I'd need, but I use it every single day and this is absolutely amazing. So along this journey from then to now, I'm sure you've probably had some inspiration or mentors. And so Danielle, who are some of your biggest like inspirations or mentors along the way?

Yeah, one of my first jobs out of school, I was laid off from my very first job. I was let go after four months and it was the most giant ego blow that you could possibly imagine. After putting in so much work, graduating with honors, doing a bajillion internships, to be let go and told, I just don't think you're getting it in that meeting was like, are you serious? Like what? That came back around. I won't get into too much detail there, just in case anyone's listening in and is intimately associated with that story. But it came back around and I got some satisfaction and closure there. But the, the job that I had after that, I was coming into it slightly damaged, a little unsure of myself, and I was hired by someone who I had known for a couple of years, Chris Selland, still an amazing mentor and friend all these years later. He, he's really good about staying in touch. I'm not. But very quickly after I got into that job and got to work with this incredible Mentor. Our team was expanding and so they put in someone between us. And at first it was like, did I just get hired and then get a demotion? Like, what is happening? But turns out that manager Jason Bailey was one of the most pivotal influences in my career because he just like, foolishly believed in me. Like there was absolutely no bound to what he thought I was capable of. And. And so he would throw me the craziest projects just because they needed to get done. And then he provided the air cover when, you know, others in the organization maybe saw my ability and wanted to take advantage of it. He sort of helped me figure out where those boundaries were, how to apply them, apply them for me, and then just give me the space to do whatever made sense. We also worked for a very large company that had very large budgets and had a very unique situation where we were very free to spend those budgets. So we got to do a lot, test a lot. And I never would have learned without, you know, his wind at my back and the space in the unique situation that we had to really stretch.

I love that idea of his wind behind your back and the, the space to stretch the budget to do things, to just like, my mind goes to like, it's almost like you had the perfect marketing playground.

I really did.

Yeah. So let's dig in a little bit deeper and we're going to kind of go into some of these, like, valley questions before we go into the peak here. You're going through this journey. You know, you even talked about like, initial layoff after honors and then this other job and how it's like this magical thing. But have there been any hurdles along the way or, or biases that you've had to overcome in your career? And if so, how did you navigate those?

I'm in a very privileged position where I don't feel like I've had a whole lot of biases. There's definitely influence. I worked in tech. I mean, I worked for giant tech companies and then smaller tech companies, and they're always, you know, male dominated industries. But I never really took that at face value. It was, you know, to your brand. I walked in, I'm like, these are people, these are just humans that I get to work with and get to know. I, again, I'm in a very privileged position to even be able to come into the space and that mentality. And so maybe there were biases that I just choose to not pay attention to. And especially early in my career. I think, like I mentioned, there were folks who saw my capability and Wanted to take advantage of it. And there were plenty of times where I was the person stuck at the booth. And I try not to think too much into that because I was 22 years old and in a male dominated industry. But you don't know where people motivations lie. But I always assume the best intentions. So I don't feel like I had a whole lot to overcome. You know, I, I had incredible parents that were supporting me. I went to one of the top business schools in the country. Like, I really was coming at this with, you know, every resource that I possibly could have been provided prior to, you know, entering this industry. So as much as there may have been hurdles, it was really just learning curves. Like I had to make my own mistakes to understand things. You know, I had to get to those points where I was overextended and come back. And that I can admit has happened as recently as this year. So like, you're constantly learning where your capacity is at and, you know, how you engage with people. But I show up to every conversation on just like, let's meet a new friend and there's no assumption. And maybe they have assumptions about me, but hopefully that's, you know, in line with my positive assumptions.

Yeah, I love that so much. I think there's a couple things that. And by the way, we're talking kind of about business, but also kind of about life here, to be honest with you. This idea of like repositioning hurdles as learning opportunities. And then what I really love is this idea of positive intent, like moving into a situation with positive intent versus kind of any type of maybe negative historical baggage that could be possible for many of us to grab onto and then try to lug along when we should have just kind of let it go and have that positive mindset. So I love that. Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to go at this again. And life is life, sometimes lifeful life. But have you ever had a moment working at these tech companies and where you just felt maybe underestimated, maybe you felt overlooked, maybe you felt out of place in the industry? You know, maybe there's a time that kind of rings back to, well, there was this time. And if so, how did you handle that?

Talking about being at a trade show booth was humbling because I was like, I have a business degree, I work in marketing. And it's very easy to fall into the trap of like, I'm not even qualified to have this conversation. But I, it was a good marketing lesson because I was representing a product that was A column oriented database. I still can't really tell you how that's different from a regular database, except that it processes across columns instead of rows and that makes it faster. But I. It had no front end interface. You can't look at the product. So to even show it off, we had to have engineers build out the Booth demo. I had to have talking points to even know it was happening. And so people would come up to me at trade shows where they're incredibly qualified to be having the deep conversations about the product and why it's different and what matters. And I absolutely could not answer that. But I could be a friendly face that described what I knew, hit my talking points and then passed them off to someone who can really answer their questions. But I had to get myself in a place where it was like, I'm qualified to show up and be a part of this process. Like, even though I can't answer these questions and I truthfully have no idea what's happening, even at this company, I can still connect with someone and that is a valuable part of whatever their sales process or even just this conversation becomes. Because they have a friendly face, they have a positive association with our brand, with me as a representative. So that it took a lot to get there. And then, you know, later in my career I really struggled with how do I break out from being really good at the thing I do hands on keyboard, to how do I be a trusted advisor? And that leap is huge. And I never quite figured out how to do it in corporate, but going out on my own, I've been able to test that left and right. Like how do I plug people in under me? How do I separate out this project so that I can be the trusted advisor and position, position myself as such and then have others alongside me that can do the hands on keyboard to expand. Like really, I just want to build our business.

Yeah. So good. So many pieces in there where I think if people are paying attention that they could input into their own life and, and ideas and mindsets. It's, it's interesting because you're very, I can tell you're just a very positive person and you've been set up for success and, and it feels like to me that you're a go getter and like this is what I want to do and let' go after it. But I'm curious, along this journey that you've been on, have you, Danielle, ever experienced like, oh, oof, gut punch, like failure setback and, and if so, like during that failure setback, what did you take away or learn from it that you might use today still?

Oh, so many. I mean, you only figure out how to be positive and come at things positively from taking those hits and like, realizing how much they could drag you down and then not letting it. So I think looking back over the years, that first job out of college, when I was let go after four months, you know, they literally told me, like, you just don't get it. And so to come back from that, I was in a really rough place for a couple months. Nevermind the financial impact of getting laid off when you have no income on your record prior to that. So very limited income, which makes it worse, actually. So coming out of that, I didn't realize it at the time because I was so sucked into, like, how are we going to pay our rent? How am I going to find a new job? Like, this looks so bad. I was so excited to jump into this. I was trying really hard and then someone just threw it in my face. But I've had so many hits after that. I had an example where I was at that big tech company with those incredible mentors, and we had a conference where this was when Twitter hashtags were really big. So every conference had a hashtag. Everybody's tweeting against the hashtag. We were live tweeting events, and we went hard on the hashtag. We had it printed on our conference bags. And then it was hijacked by protesters. We had to. And nobody told me. There were some, like, maybe this is going to happen. And no one told me, but other people knew. And so they actually had to rearrange where things were happening in the conference hall to make sure that the protesters were not going to interrupt any of the event. But it went from like, let's live tweet our opening session to like, you're killing babies. It was. It was really dark, really bad. And I had myself a nice cry in my hotel room. And then I had to come back and be like, but you know what, we're figuring this out. It's a good moment to pivot. It makes for a really good interview story if I ever get back into that world. How? You just have to figure it out and keep going. And so even recently, you know, getting into consulting, I started off on my own, but then earlier this year combined forces with my friend Brian Osat to form Cartographer Consulting. So I was a solopreneur for two and a half years, three years. And that is, is a whole other thing, because when your clients churn it Feels incredibly personal. And so I got very good at reframing that on, like, here's why. This situation is one situation not reflective of me or my skills. Maybe sometimes it was, but even then, like, that's a you problem, not a me problem. So, like, how do we just reframe that to keep going? Because in entrepreneurship, I'm sure, you know, you have to take those blows. You're going to make mistakes, and sometimes it was my fault, and you just have to own that and figure out how to make things as best you can and leave it in the past.

I love that. It's like, figure it out and keep moving forward. And then the fact that you're talking about, like, there's gonna be issues, there's gonna be pains that are gonna happen, but how do you mentally prepare yourself to just get past it and move on? I love that. Okay, Danielle, I'm super curious. Like, what does the word empowerment mean to you, and how do you pass that on to others in your field?

So the word empowerment, I think, has been sort of commoditized in the, like, female empowerment world or movement or whatever you want to call it. I think that phrase female empowerment has become synonymous with, like, girl boss, and it's not a thing I ever want to associate with. But when you take away that context, empowerment is taking ownership. It's taking up space. It's feeling like you are allowed to take up that space. I joke with people all the time. I want our business to do well so I can help my friends. Like, I want to hire my friends. I want to refer work to them. I want to create an environment where I can pull people up with me, and that's where I see empowerment. And I. Even with the subcontractors we work with, I'm like, how do we nurture them? How do we help them be better? Whether they stick with us or not, I don't care. Like, I just want to give them the space to excel and then take that into my personal life, too. I have two little girls. They're six and three. And so teaching them, you know, you are a person who has feelings and thoughts and meaning in this world from day one. Like, I don't care that you're a toddler and you're going to fight me. I'm putting on sunscreen every freaking morning. But, like, you still are allowed some, you know, ownership of yourself and your body and your choices, but I'm not going to let you get skin cancer. So you still have to wear your sunscreen. But trying to pass that on to them.

I love that so much. And it's funny, like I've said for years, like giving people a hand up, not a handout. And you even reference, like pulling people up, whether it be contractors or whatnot. And the idea of giving space. And I love that you brought in your daughters of like giving them the space from the beginning to be who they are or who they will become. Very great. So now that we know, like how you kind of think about empowerment, can you share a moment in your career where you, Danielle Urban, felt especially empowered by or proud of what you achieved?

One of the first times that my skills were sort of recognized in the industry, there was a tech conference that was specifically for women. It was on a weekend and it was sort of like a getaway thing. And I was in. I was nominated by my mentors and bosses at the big tech company. And I was chosen to teach a class. And I had never been put on a stage and to highlight my own expertise before. It was really cool. And I was really young. I was 22, 23. But I had learned a lot about how social media worked in that world. And there were a lot of people who didn't know that. And I still kind of struggle with. I don't realize that what I know is not the same as what everybody else knows. Like, you don't understand that other people's brain work differently and they have different experiences. You just think that's the imposter syndrome. Like, I assume everybody knows this. You can all google it too, or have a chat GPT conversation about it these days. But in that moment where I was told, like, you get to create a presentation, you get to write this lesson and teach people, it was incredible. And it was recorded and I didn't think much of it. I got through the conference and it was a lot of fun. Met some great people, networks like crazy. And then in our, like, company, all hands for our business unit within this big tech company, which was still probably 200 or so people, they played the video at our all hands meeting. And that moment was like, humongously embarrassing, but also really cool to have that recognized by like, really important people who were doing big things in this company. And I was just given this stage like once in the nomination, twice when I actually was on the stage, and then a third time when it was shown to the rest of the company that like, I had value to add here, that was different than anybody else. And it's really, like I said, it's really tough to keep that in mind, even making like a LinkedIn post, I'm like, well I, I have all these friends in the industry who know so much more about this. I would go to them to ask these questions. But recognizing that that inner circle is not the rest of the world and I there's so much value to be shared if I can just figure out how to get the words out.

Yes. So, so important right there to understand that the circle that we run with is probably not the people that need us, but we have to communicate so the people that need us can actually find us. And I love that you mentioned like a ChatGPT conversation or a Google. I have said for years one of my superpowers is just being able to Google things better than most mere mortal humans can because you can find anything. I once told a friend of mine, you don't know, you don't need to know everything. You just need to be able to find everything. And then that separates you from the pack. I love your story. I love that it was like and it was the gift that kept on giving. But really what I love about your story is you didn't say I have to do this presentation. You said I get to do this presentation, which I think is a key thing for people to pay attention to. It's simple words, but it's a huge mindset of the I get to do that versus I have to do that. Okay, so Danielle, keep chugging along here. If you could change one thing about how women are supported in this industry, you had a magic wand. What's the one thing that you would change?

I have a whole lot of feelings about this. So I work for myself because the cost of child care in Massachusetts is absolutely outrageous and I'm not shy about it. With two kids in full time daycare, that would cost me over $5,000 a month out of pocket. People have no idea when you say it costs a lot that is different to every person. But it's truly 5,000 plus a month for two kids in full time child care. So. So when I had my second child I was like what even are my options? My at a reasonable salary, still so much of it goes to childcare that I hate to say it's not worth working because work means a lot of things to me. But those, those numbers just never are going to make sense. And so we made the decision very with a lot of work. We made the decision with a lot of thoughts and considerations and conversations over the course of months that I quit my full time job. I started moonlighting in you know, freelance marketing ops. While I was on mat leave, I took a six month mat leave because the small company I worked for paid me two weeks and then I had no other benefits beyond that. And they were small enough that even my job wasn't protected. So if your company is under 50 employees, then they do not need to abide by FMLA to keep your role or a similar role there. They weren't jerks, so of course they wanted me back. They were very kind people, but they were a small startup with limited funds so they paid me my two weeks and that was it. And so I needed to figure out how do I, you know, keep my older daughter in daycare in a reasonable spot, because you also lose your spot if you pull your kid at all. And then there are wait lists, you know, 12 months long. So how do I keep her at least minimally in daycare and pay for that and then also, you know, support our life through these six months where I wanted the time to bond with my child and be home. And then what does life look like beyond that? And so the moonlighting turned into more work, which turned into even more work. And I said, I'm just going to make the leap and figure this out. And it worked. It took me a couple of years to get my feet totally under me, but I was able to work four days a week, like 9 to 5:30ish. So that worked out really, really well for our family, made all the numbers work out a lot better. And it gave me the space to have a nanny at home, which was really incredible. We did a nanny share so it was even more affordable. But then I had my nursing baby close to me and I didn't have to give that up. So I built all of this flexibility for myself. But to come back to your question, I've had to build that flexibility and make those decisions for myself. There really isn't a whole lot of space for that to just happen. In the tech world things are a lot more flexible because you can work from home. You know, people recognize the sort of deliverables that your job can do rather than the time online. So Even with my first daughter, I had to leave at 4:30 to pick her up by 5 or 5:30 because they charge me $10 for every minute that she that I'm late. So I had to get there. And so I was like, sorry guys, I have to go. And they were obviously very accommodating and very understanding because I was able to perform my job within the hours that I could show up. For it. But I think that is something that that is afforded to the privilege of the tech world and not much beyond that. And so there's so much that I wish we could do to support parents, specifically, because that's the chapter that I'm in these days where that flexibility just is not assumed. And I think it makes people really hesitant to move towards parenthood because there are just so many things to figure out logistically before you even get into the, like, emotional brain changing. That happens.

Yeah, man, I love that answer so much. And I had no clue that it was that expensive. And what I love about your story, though, is the words I made. I had to make these decisions, and then I had to build the process. I had to build the machine. I had to build the flexibility, is what you said. And I think that's. Anybody who's listening to this or watching this, like, what decisions do you need to make? What is it that you need to build into your daily habits, your actions that can get you to a place where you can say, hey, I've got my feet under me, and we're doing it. Because to me, that's very inspirational. Like, you know, you took the dive. It took you some time to work it out, but now you're sitting in a place where, like, you can look back and tell these stories of, like, these are decisions I made. And this is how we figured it out, and this is how we made it work along the way. I love it. Okay, so this is called the Women of HubSpot podcast. So I do actually have one question that I ask around HubSpot. And so, Danielle, I'm super curious because you are kind of nerdy into the weeds with HubSpot. You've mentioned before in this interview that you've done multiple implementations and stuff like that and helping clients all the time. So right now, as we sit here, are there any particular tools, strategies, trends in HubSpot that excite you?

Right now, I have been getting introduced to the powers and magic of CMS Hub, which I have never used because I'm usually in the weeds on the technical side of things and the data architecture. But we're scoping out a potential phase two of a project that we have running right now. And we're looking at building, like, a customer portal where their clients can log in. And so I have had to get very ingrained in the CMS world and try to figure out, like, is this even possible? Is this a good idea for me to suggest to our client? And I sort of created this hypothesis and then tested it every possible way that I could without actually building the thing because I'll still need someone else for that support. But there are incredible things built into there and the flexibility that you have with it and that, I mean, that speaks to a larger effort where HubSpot has been building more features to give you more flexibility. And that's where it's kind of grown to the monster that it is today. There's just so much in there that I can't wait to discover because I've stayed so much in the marketing and sales hub with a little bit of CS Hub, but really my background's marketing. The marketing and sales pipeline and flow is like I live and breathe that every day. So to get a little outside of that is really exciting for me and to figure out what else is possible in this platform that we've all come to love and hate at times.

Yeah, I love me some CMS Hub and content Hub, to be honest with you, but it is super powerful, especially compared to what it used to be back in the day with Without a doubt. Okay, so let's talk about, along the way, this journey you've been on. Networking, building connections, creating friends, if you will. Right. How important is networking with other, we'll say females, but maybe just in general to you and Danielle, are there any strategies that you use to kind of build these connections along the way?

Yeah, I. Networking is the entire reason that I have a career. My dad once told me, college only gets you your first job and the rest is who you know. And I hated him for it at the time, but because it made me so focused on my studies, which of course was exactly what he wanted. But I then got into the working world and just kept in touch with everybody. And I am so incredibly grateful that LinkedIn exists because I would lose track of everybody otherwise. Like, I'm just not dedicated enough to keep track of it myself. But I'll add everybody on LinkedIn and they show up in my feed, sometimes I show up in theirs and people come back around. I just had a message this morning from a salesperson who worked at a client who churned maybe 18 months ago. He got a new job recently and needed some help with HubSpot and was like, hey, do you have 15 minutes actually? He asked, what would you charge for a 10 minute call? And I was like, I would never charge for a 10 minute call. I would have no, no network if I did that. But I think I had to kind of get over myself, especially when I started on my own because when you first break into that world, you're like, oh, my gosh, everybody's a cool competitor. We're all out for the same jobs. What are we doing? But I got over that very quickly, thankfully, because then you find genuine friends in this world. You know, I just had no shame in reaching out to people. I've always been that way. But, you know, when. Let's take Sarah Lane Hahn as an example. She sort of burst onto this platform. It was a little over a year ago now, and I was like, who is this girl? Like, she seems like she's coming in pretty hot. But she initially branded herself with attribution. And I was like, I don't know. I have this stupid project that I don't want to deal with. Maybe she can help me. And so I reached out to her and initially was like, I don't know who you are. I don't know what we're doing here. Let's leave a little space to figure out what this is going to be. But then she was like, yeah, here's how I think you should do it. Here's how you should approach it. She helped me out with even the contract negotiation side of it because it was a much bigger project than what my client had initially thought. And that was the first 15 minutes of our call. The remaining 45 minutes was talking about our plan for inbound and how we could meet up and have lunch together. And then I was like, you could stay at my house if you want, and the rest is history. So now we've got this really great friendship where we're, you know, talking personal things outside of the usual platforms. But if I had never gotten over that initial, like, this girl's coming in pretty hot. She looks like steep competition, then what would I have to show for that? Like, that doesn't get you anywhere. And I think the HubSpot world shares a similar view. Maybe we have to, like, get people past that first, you know, standoffish point and pull them into the tribe, but we all get there.

I love that so much. You can stay at my house. And now your friends. And it started with, like, this LinkedIn. It's such a good story, and I think it's. To me, my brain leans into just the serendipity of life and allowing that to kind of happen as. As it should or will. Speaking of life and your journey, I'm curious because you've done a lot right. Again, if we go back to the beginning, had some jobs, lost some jobs, like, own your own thing, co own, like Solopreneur, like, it's just been a great journey, but out of that, if you had to pinpoint like one particular time, like, or maybe it's right now, I don't know. I'll just ask the question, like, what has been the most rewarding aspect of your career so far?

So the context of rewarding and like, what is rewarding to me has different meanings in different worlds because it's incredibly rewarding to me right now. And over the past few years that I've been able to choose this path where I have so much time with my kids, that's always been really important to me. I grew up with a stay at home mom and having her present through all of those moments was really special to me. And so I wanted to give that to my kids, but also show them that like, you can go be a badass and do whatever you want. And I think I'm there. So in that way, my life right now and my working situation is incredibly rewarding. Taking that more into the professional side of things. I constantly have imposter syndrome, but I'm getting to help companies actually change how they operate. And so I get to come in and say, I think if you did it this way it would be better. And then I have to take out, I think in all of my emails to make sure that I say it with authority. But I actually get to change how companies operate and it brings them to a better state. And that when I take a step back and realize that I'm doing that is wild. Like, I never imagined that I could have that much influence anywhere. And so that's really rewarding. But I think over the years I've been able to do some, you know, volunteer work, get involved with things, get to connect with people in different ways. And that all, like, I have met so many people, I've had, I've added so much richness to my life with the people that have come into it just along this path. And so there's, there are a lot of little moments, but I think right now I'm kind of killing it on all fronts.

I love just being able for you to be able to say that because sometimes even when you're killing it, the monster in your brain doesn't allow you to at least vocalize that you're killing it because you're just kind of on this hamster wheel. So I love that for you and your life and like it's rewarding. And again, I think if anybody that's watching or listening this, there's been A roadmap. There's been mindsets that kind of been laid in your answers to kind of if, if they're not there now, they can get there. With some of the things that we've learned over this interview. Okay, we're cresting up to the top of the mountain questions. So what advice would you give other women who might want to choose this same career path that you're doing?

I would say that you just constantly should be open to meeting new people, having new conversations, even if you don't know where it's going to go. Like, I'll strike up a conversation with anyone and decide in the first few minutes if I want to continue it or not. Like, you always have that option, but usually you can find some common ground. You can find something interesting and it ends up being some level of networking. Like, I'm never trying to do that. I don't want to be selling every day. But I've met some really incredible friends just from being open to talking to anyone. And I think there's, there are some aspects of like, safety and, you know, considering how you want to grow things and how you want to be perceived. But generally, I think being open to literally have a conversation with anyone can take you great places. Like, if I can leave a positive impression about me with someone, then that could be a referral. That could be new doors that open. That could be an invitation somewhere really exciting. That could be a new lifelong friend. And so just having that openness through my entire career and really, like, I become friends with a dance mom every school year, so like, I just get to pick which one.

I love that. It's funny because it's like not only who you know, but who you know and who they know. And like being able to just. Again, the word serendipity comes to mind, but it's around the relationships that you're willing to build. I also love that you put the life lesson of you could always pull the parachute cord and be like, yep, this conversation's over. You have the power to do that. So you love where you're at. It's very rewarding. You're kicking butt and taking names. But I'm curious, Danielle, what are your long term goals from here to wherever you're headed?

It's hard to think beyond where you're at always. And it's hard to even think past like three years. So we have hopes of growing this business to be, you know, multi millions of revenue and have people working for us. Like I said, I really want to pull my Friends in and make their lives better too. That timeline is very ambiguous. You know, we've set goals for ourselves, but how we build that, we're still kind of figuring out we really, I have to keep reminding myself, we really only formed our business in February. We filed the paperwork and got our LLP in February. This is our first full quarter of work. And that's hard to remember when both of us were solopreneurs before this and had a lot of lessons. But moving from solopreneurship to even a partnership, there's a lot of knowledge transfer you have to learn. But then looking at growing that business, it's a completely different mindset. And so we have big hopes of, you know, building the business and maybe selling it someday. But the end goal of all of this is to like be able to take care of our families, be comfortable enough where we can spend time with them and take time away and have that time be meaningful and not like always on call. I have hopes of fixing my house. My foundation is sinking, so I really want to fix that. And it's very expensive. Like I say, that's like three years. You know, let's grow our business, let's hire people, let's fix my house. By that point, my kids will both be in regular school, not, not preschool. But I don't know what comes after that. You know, I like traveling, I like hanging out with my kids when they're not screaming at me.

I think those are some great goals. I love it. So as we land the plane, Danielle, first of all, thank you for taking time to do this. I, I've learned a lot about you, who you are as a human. I think the viewers and listeners have to learn some lessons along the way. We've got two more questions as we land the plane. What is a surprising or little known fact about you that people might not expect?

Oh, this is a fun one. I had myself a little quarter life crisis, was laid off from a job and went to culinary school. So I have a culinary certificate from the Cambridge School Culinary Arts. It was a full time program for three months and then I worked at the culinary school for a year in their front office and then decided the, the pay and the flexibility couldn't quite match the tech world. So I came back around. But even in my time there I was like, oh, you want to implement a new software? Here, let me write all of your documentation and manage that. That process for you should have been a clue for me. But yeah, I absolutely love cooking. I travel to eat and drink wine and then I try to bring it home with me and recreate it for my friends and share the wealth.

I love that. We need to be friends. No, I'm just kidding. Not because. But I love that because I. I, too, just. I have a son who went to culinary school and loves to cook. And, man, I love when he can just kick butt and take names in the kitchen. All right, last question. Finish this sentence for me. Success to me equals blank.

Success to me is being able to choose your own path.