Ep. 1 - You Should Have Been An Astronaut (Pilot) | Developers:After Dark

How the hell are we starting this?

We're gonna. We're gonna start it with me describing what exactly it is. So that's probably gonna be the big thing. So what we have is we have Developers After Dark. We have people who are going to talk, and we have people who are going to listen, and we're going to have conversations. Now, the question, right, that everybody is going to ask, if they haven't asked already, that knows about this, is, what exactly is Developers After Dark? Now, for me, personally, ever since I was a kid, I. I've loved comedy, right? And I've loved watching people have the ability to have conversations that are very fluid, right? And that can be interviews, it could be podcasts. As time went on, whatever it was, there was. There was a real admiration on my end for that type of discussion. And when you can marry the two together and it could be something that's fun and it could be informational and there could be a conversation. To me, that was the pinnacle, right? And even to this day, there are things that I still listen to where it's. Whether it's like something in Philadelphia podcast, right? Whether it's bad Friends or, you know, watching people like Lex Freeman do interviews or whatever it is, there's those elements there that. That kind of personify that. And that in particular is what I really wanted to try to create. Not mimic, but I wanted to try to create something that had those really, really positive aspects to it, but revolve it around technology. Not getting too in the weeds with, like, ones and zeros and coding, but like, technology, life, careers. Right? For example, like, how did. How did you get to the job that you were at? Right? That's one of the things that I would ask anybody that would be a part of this. And not just the careers aspect, too, but also, like, being able to, you know, have a conversation about how technology is impacting your life. Less career, but more personal. You know, not to the extent where people are uncomfortable, but having a conversation, because that's always been what it's been about. And nothing personified that more than when me and Dennis did the talk at Inbound, where it was like it wasn't reading from a card. Sure, we read a couple things off of, you know, the slides, but it was. It felt like a conversation. And I think the audience, too, took from that and kind of like, felt like they were having, even though it was us, you know, for the most part, until the Q and A. But it felt like a conversation. But what I wanted to do was I wanted to try to take those finer points that I always, always had admired over time and bring it into something like this, where we could then pull in also the things like HubSpot careers, technology and things like that. And this is something we all three of us have talked about for, I don't know, the longest time now, but it was just trying to like, pull in what aspects would make this a really, really great thing to do. And I think those, for me, at least personally, are those things. And I, I couldn't think of any other way to kick something off like this than to talk to both the two people who are, you know, instrumental in making this a reality. So with that.

Well, yeah, just because software, I mean, my, my, my instrumental part is like, I have the stuff to do it.

So it also does. Two people are. I don't know who's talking, but I mean, give yourselves credit. It does take a certain type of individual to like do this and participate in this. And that's why like, even going forward, like the people that we choose, right, it's not just going to be random people. Like, I, I foresee it as not just hubspotters, but like, you know, potentially template providers, app creators, you know, it could also be just be developers, could be entrepreneurs. Like, I didn't think of people that I've run into throughout my career and throughout my life that I admired, not just because of the fact that they were good speakers, but they were their, their take on things, right? Like there was a. One of the ones I would love to do at some point is my manager that was at the real estate place, this guy Mark. Fantastic person, right? Just like when talking to him, like when it came to like, managerial stuff and like big picture stuff, he just, he had everything kind of tied up nicely in a way that was just. I was in awe of it, you know. And then that's the kind of thing that kind of led me to this where it was like I would hear people speak in a certain way or about certain things that were comfortable, but I was in awe of the way they did it because it was entertaining. It wasn't boring, right? It was something where it's like I, I could get in that conversation. I want to have that conversation with that person. Um, so I wanted this to at some point and of course, and then maybe, you know, I might have to leave you guys behind. Like Timberlake, this, like in.

Whoa, whoa, Whoa.

Reynolds wants to do one on Bond. I mean, like, I remember that was like five minutes through this, like, I.

Already be Left behind.

I'll remember both of you, like, at the greatest light. Yeah, honestly, good to know what family means to you.

Seriously, dude. So. So are we going to be able to interview the. The carpet lady from Tick Tock? Is that, Is that part of. Is that considered technology? And how.

Yeah, I could reach out. I don't know. I just found out about her today. So it would be. They use ground penetrating radar like they do in, like, what is it first, Oak island and things like that. I mean, there is a technology angle there that you could really do. So that's where I left off. Is that there. She was doing virtual digging. She said she was going to do virtual up.

Aj, quick, quick summary of where we have so far and then bring us explain.

So. So this morning I took the dog for a walk and I did what everybody does, which just jumped on TikTok and like, you know, anything I could do and somebody. Well, first I was on Facebook, he was like, hey, you've seen like, you know, the, the. The TikTok body carpet thing. And I went, what? So sure enough, go to search Tik Tok. First result. And literally a woman is talking about her house being haunted. And then she's saying that they were doing some digging and they found a carpet buried, like, two feet underground. And then, like, everybody was like, call the police, do this, do that. So she called the police, the police went there, saw the carpet, and they're like, yeah, we can't waste resources unless we know for sure. So she's doing what TikTok wanted, she's digging it up. But before she's doing major digging, she said, like, and this is where I left off. So, like, I'm after this, I'm going to jump back in naturally, because I, I can't. I need to know what's happening at this point. Naturally is she's saying that she was doing virtual digging. So I don't know if that's like, related to, like, the technology where it's like you just kind of like sewing our head or whatever, but I feel like that's going to be way more expensive than just picking up a shovel. But under your floor, like, usually that's a good thing. Like, if I found hardwood under my carpet, I would be ecstatic. I would be asking, well, yeah, but this is like finding a rolled up carpet in your garden underground. Like, it's not like she pulled up, you know, carpeting was like, oh, look, beautiful hardwood floors. She literally was something historic. So she has to be careful as well. Right? Like, but Specific points.

Very good point.

I mean what if it's a time capsule and inside of there are like cell phones from the 60s, right? Like where exactly in the 60s they.

Put their time capsules wrapped up in carpet? No, we have all this snag carpet around. We're gonna wrap it up.

Sounds plausible, right? Just for people that have no idea who we are and maybe stumble across this one day at three in the morning when they're just. They have nothing else to watch and they've gone through every YouTube video evenly possible. Why don't you both tell everyone who you are and what you do? Sure. I'll start this Google AJ Laporte and I am not the musician from Kalamazoo. So I am the other one. I am the like random result in the middle of all of the music results. You give that cars with that on there. I'm not, I'm not the Calvin Greg.

You should.

Yeah, like so it's, it's been interesting though because like for the longest time when like social was taking off and like, you know, handles and vanities and all that stuff, I made sure to try and grab AJ LaPorte on everything. So like chances are you go to slash AJ Laporte on any social media. It's me with the, with the minus of like I think Pinterest. Somebody beat me to that one. Which wasn't really jumping on the Pinterest bandwagon anyways. But you know, I basically like I was looking for the AJ laporte.com domain for like four years. I was hounding whoever owned it because it was some like handyman service and never got correspondence from, offered to buy it from them, did everything, whatever. So I just kept following the expires year and every year it was coming up for all of.

Or stock. Stock I think is the correct word.

Yeah, every year I was pretty much, yeah, I was like, I was like, I added on a calendar like because I was like every year it was, you know, renewal. So you knew the date. So every year I reach out at the same time and offer to buy the domain from them because the renewal was coming up and every year they just renewed. So eventually I just put it on monitoring, it got available and I bought it. So I was really excited because I was like, Finally I have AJ laporte.com, which is what I wanted. So I started doing all this stuff, you know, making AJ Laporte be like search. And then musician comes along and then everything gets blown away thanks to like Apple and Spotify and all as so like so you're the Michael space or the Office space. Michael Bolton. Real life in this is real life. This is what happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But to his credit, he doesn't like he's very musician. Like he actually celebrated. I. I have not listened to it. I've listened to a couple of songs and I have to say like he is a musician so that's awesome. He's playing gigs all over Wisconsin area. I'm sure John may run into him at that point. But Alamo's use big your children do what Your children.

Have your children listened to this music?

They have not. They have not. No. Because some of that, some of the titles of the songs made it seem as if language in the songs were not that. Well that's a shame.

I. I would pay you $10 to say that's actually your music and just sell them thinking that this other person is you for the rest of their lives.

They know it's not by now because like when it happened I was like I'm not like man my Google like everything I've been doing to try to keep like number one on Google. So yeah they already he's on the border with like CDs just kind of fasting my own and what. What is it, what is it that you actually do aside from not being the musician in Cal. Good point. I totally remember tangent. I go on tangents a lot. But no so I work at HubSpot with the wonderful people here. A developer advocate or operation advocate type thing. But yeah, mainly I just. I'm focusing a lot now on our processes and like streamlining things, recording, seeing where like basically where I'm. I'm a kind of person where if I have to do something more than once like automated if it's something you know, new minimum, minimal like you don't need to keep going and you don't need to keep like repeating the same test every week, five times a week. Just automate it and then just keep checking on the automation, making sure that it's running smooth and when there's hiccups come up, then you fix it, you know.

So that.

That's kind of what I do. I really big passion for a lot of the automation and especially reporting in data. As Dennis will tell you that I love data. Anything data. I get my hands on it, manipulate it, look at it, find trends.

I love it. Yeah that's. That's why stocking the AJ laporte with the owner of the domain for Lone Star.

Yeah apologies to I. I think he was in New Jersey, actually.

No joke. Oh, my God.

I think he might have been around you, Dennis.

So. So if I go say hi to this person who's probably gonna cry and, like, run away, because if I mention your names, like, this guy's been stopping me for weeks.

Probably he's gonna be like, that guy.

He stole my business domain. I let it expire for one day.

Hi, I'm Dennis.

Dennis Edson. If you Google me, I am number one on it. However, a long time ago, there was a guy whose name was Dennis Edson Simile, and I thought it was just someone trying to mess with me, because who the hell has the Dennis Edson simile name? They no longer exist on the Google, so I finally overtook them. I hang out with these people here, and I am a developer advocate who is responsible for. Well, the only reason I'm on this show, to be quite honest, is because I have access to YouTube and Nick is totally exploiting me for this. I'm like, you know, he. I'll be out of here after the show. This is the one. You know that. So.

Bye.

It was nice.

The nice. The nice thing is this could either be the start of or the end.

Of something really great or the end.

Of looking at it.

So.

And what about you? What do you do? Me? I. I do do a lot of things. I. You know, I could juggle chainsaws. I'm really good at landscaping long lots on the beach. There's. There's quite a few things that really personify who I am. If you Google me, I think there's a lot, oddly enough. Like, there's a lot of nickel ports. There's actually. Do you remember A.J. growing up? There was actually one in the town over from us. Like, literally, same name, Nick laporte. Like, the same. Like, I went to a party once, and they were talking about this other Mick laporte. And I'm sitting here with my friends, and they're like, if you know what, it wasn't very good. You know, it wasn't in a positive light. And I'm looking and I'm like, that's not me. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what they're talking about. I've never been there. I don't know. It was the weirdest thing. And then, like, going to doctor's offices as a kid growing up, they'd be like, oh, wait, this is a different nickel port. And I'm like, what do you mean? And so, yeah, there's. If you Google, there's, there's a couple of those out there. But no, I am a technical program manager here at HubSpot. I am also in the same department as Dennis and aj. I am just on a different team. Basically. We handle quality of the things inside of the marketplace, a couple other things outside of that. But in a nutshell, right. Like the, the quality of the ecosystem is basically what our team handles.

So they can only complain you for bad things on the market.

Well, you lay down like 110, especially on the template side of things. Yeah, there's, I mean, there's probably even a template marketplace provider that hasn't even, or hasn't not run into me yet at least once or twice, because at the very beginning, I was the first person started reviewing everything for that. So, you know, my heart goes out to those people. Three and a half years ago, that, that's the vid thing. So, you know, but it's, it's like anything else. It's a learning curve. But yeah, I love to do it. Yeah, that's kind of who I'm, I've always been a person too, who just kind of loves, like, the technical side of things. Like AJ said with, with his love for analytics and things like that also kind of had that same kind of drive.

Yeah, same, same. I think it's probably why I'm in tech at all. Right. I mean, just like the idea of you have the data, you have the automation possibilities, how can you make it easier in your life? Right.

Actually, I wanted to kind of pull on that thread, actually. I'm glad you brought that up. Like, let's start with you, Dennis. Like, how did you like your journey to HubSpot? Like, was it a traditional journey as far as.

No, no, no, no, no, no. My, my. I have the probably least traditional journey to this point in my life. I would say in the top 10% of people. I, I, I grew up in Kansas on a farm with, you know, dairy farm. So I did that for a while. I went to college for English and then after that, Kansas Hayes, Kansas, Fort Hays State University in western Kansas. No joke, Buffalo, behind my dorm type of place. You both probably be happy to hear there's a Taco Bell in my, my dorm. So that.

Nice.

You're welcome. After I went to Florida because I had friends down there in Orlando and I became a photographer with the PGA Tour, which was an awful job. Really. Yeah, it sounds cool, but it was pretty awful. A lot of travel, a lot of just had to work at Disney's a lot I know you're going to Disney soon, aj, So I don't ruin it for you, but I had to shave. I'd be like, this, like, pristine person, which is not me at all, especially when I was in my twenties. And then after that, I became a park ranger in Jacksonville, Florida. Fort Talbot State park, or Talbot Island State Park. Sorry, park ranger there. Moved to New York, became a photographer type person. Oh, no. At first I was a gardener in New York, and then eventually a photographer at a lingerie and sleepwear company. While I was there, I also did, like, IT work and all kinds of stuff. Wife and I decided to have this baby thing. So we moved out of the city, north of the city, and I looked for a job here, and I found an agency that built websites. I had been building websites, you know, like, on the side for a long time, as well as, like, my old company's website. Not in, like, an official capacity, but, like, I just did it because I was that guy, you know, the guy. You can always say, like, ask AJ to do that. You'll figure it out.

It's one of the first, like, pieces of technology, if you will, like, from a coding perspective. Was that one of the first things that you kind of like.

No, my first thing, if you want to get into the weeds. Commodore 64, when I was a kid, that was my first. I messed around with that. Tried building things. It was all like, you know, command line at that point. So I was. I got to coding there, followed by a little bit, I guess I got into. I mean, I'm old, so, you know, like, I was like, the. The websites didn't exist, like, when I was in high school, right? Or like, maybe just starting to, you know, like, we had something called Gopher, I believe. I'm not sure if you all remember this. This is like an old way of searching, like back in the early 90s, late 80s, something like that. It was like, tell.

Right?

Type stuff that you could search with. I was. I used that kind of stuff back in the day. And then I built my first Geocity site, I think. Yeah.

I think anybody that's ever done a lab has built their. Can say, right?

Confidently. Yeah, yeah. So did that. And then, you know, of course, MySpace, like, was where you could start really playing with. I wish I'd be on Facebook now if I could do, like, the front end stuff like you're doing MySpace, because I would need. I mean, I was shitty at it, right? Like, I do, like, awful. It was not pretty by any means. It was like this tiled Background of like, tags.

Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, it got me into it and made me realize this is kind of fun. And so I just kind of kept up with it throughout the years and I'd have people ask me to do a website here and there. And then I started doing WordPress stuff and PHP and then as I got to this agency, I had the WordPress stuff down pretty pat. And my soon to be boss said, HubSpot. Never heard of it. And I thought, yeah, why not? You know, I can code whatever, I'll do it. And then be quite honest, I hated coding in HubSpot because it was like, wasn't even. What was it called back then. It wasn't even the design manager at that point. Right. The cos or something like that.

They called it the CLS for the web portion of it was called the cos, but I think it was always Design manager.

Was it?

Was it? Yeah.

All I know is like, it was like a drag and drop template thing and if you wanted to do anything, it like put a code component into somewhere. Right. It was like a. Yeah. And I hated it. But I learned it and then I got to start loving it and I became active on the community forums because I didn't know what the hell I was doing with HubSpot. So I answered questions which allowed me to learn more about it. Became a community champion.

Nice.

And was poached by HubSpot because of my, My work on the community.

That's a pretty, that's a pretty common thing, isn't it? Right. From going from the community to.

Oh, I was gonna say. I don't know, I'd love to meet the other person as a similar.

No, I just. No, no, no, not like that. I mean, I just meant like from like being like whether it's in the dev slack or the community, and there.

Is a high propensity of a community champion to be taken by HubSpot. If you listen to this, become a community champion because, you know, people start paying more.

I was trying to, I was trying to get a plug into that. I did enough. Yeah, okay, that's fair enough. I mean, how many people, it's like.

4, 5, 6.

Come over that they get really active in the community and. Yeah, I think it's just the knowledge that they gain from it. It's almost as if they do work at HubSpot already. You know, they get, they get to learn a lot and help a lot of people and that definitely. Well, people notice that and people recognize that. Even I know for me, when Opportunity came up. It was like I got a link shot to me and saying, like, hey, we're doing this. Are you interested? And I was like, absolutely.

So, yeah, I mean, like, the relationship between HubSpot and the community is pretty symbiotic.

Right?

Like, it's like they're give and take both ways quite a bit.

Now, the individual to my upper right on my screen, kind of familiar. Kind of familiar with that journey a little bit. You know, lived inside of it for a little while. So why don't you. So why don't you tell us how you got which. Which is nice, because then it blends into the real important part, which isn't how I got it, but which is you. Yeah.

Wait, you know you're related. You don't even spell your name the same way. I didn't.

I didn't mean that our. There's a right way to do it, a wrong way to do it. We all know that. That's why there's two ways here. But we never tell us. Easy, Howard, you. Your journey got to HubSpot. Yeah, I mean, I. A lot of it was actually following in Nick's footsteps, you know, like, especially, like, you know, when you have.

You're not gonna get on the show again just by, like.

I know, right? Like, it's just. Get the air pump out for his ego, and let's just start hitting. I got a whiteboard over here where I'm making tallies of, like, all with me. Nice things. People said they're gonna come. Yeah. But I mean, I. I want to say, like, we both have always been very artistic. Like, art has always been something that we always enjoy doing growing up, like drawing, doing all of that. And I think basically when high school rolled around, we always. We had the same art teacher, Mr. Moss. Stephen Moss. Who. Yeah, who he actually. He's retired from teaching, and he. He's in Indiana. He does paintings, and he's in galleries and all sorts of stuff, so it's really cool. His work is fantastic. Very, like, impressionistic kind of stuff. It's just great. I'm sure impressionist probably wasn't even the right word, but. But he kind of kicked off a lot in my brain of, like, art and design and really getting into, like, the graphics side of things. And, you know, from there, I started doing graphic work, really. So more in high school, it was just like, you know, doing my friend's band designs, things like that. Smaller things here and there. And then once I got into college, it was where, you know, they're like, what do you want to do? You know, what, what is it you want to be? All that stuff. And I, I thought at first I wanted to do marketing. You know, I really liked the idea of making people buy things they didn't need. I thought that was an interesting thing. Like, you know, the way that you sell a product and how you can like the psychology of it was interesting to me.

Would you say selling people things they don't need?

Yeah, like, that's what I thought. Marketing wise people like what you want to do. Yeah, yeah. You know, and it was like, it was because like you got to craft a story around something. You got to take something and really present it to people in a way that they may not have thought. So is it, is it fair to say then probably one of your first like experiences into like the technology realm or that. And I'm not say coding, but like Photoshop, you know, digital artwork. Because it's, it's funny because I think like what you started doing originally is probably one of the things that most likely suffer the most over time and not, not, not just because of any one particular thing in particular, but like CD art. Right? That used to be a thing where like people would buy the CD sometimes for, yeah, maybe a song. But that artwork on there was just impactful and that's just like one of those things that went away it. A hundred percent, 100% wise. And you know, like, I really, really sorry, I'm trying to turn off the notifications from the other slack that I realized I didn't do. But yeah, like, it was, it was huge for me. It was eye opening, right. Like, because I, it was a friend's band, I made a CD cover and like insert. And you know, back in the day when like lyrics were actually in the insert and like you could in it up and fan it out. It's like I made this really big like CD insert form. It was really cool. And I kind of just like kept going with the graphic stuff even when I got into college. And it was great because Philip Age was his name. He is no longer alive, unfortunately. He was a wonderful teacher, but he kind of really supported me in college because there was the tab was the Technical Arts Graphics association at Eastern. So like I got in really well with that teacher. He was very supportive and really like made you push the envelope of your skills. Like, oh, that's cool. You can do graphics. Try doing this. Try making this. And it was one of those things where like, you know, it was me and two other people that got to know him really well. And we joined Tata and we were doing graphics. So people would come and say, like, I need a design for a bar crawl. That fraternity is doing. Okay, here's what we do. Here's how we do it. Here's how it breaks out. So it got really interesting there. And then it got to be like, okay, well, let's create a magazine for Taba to showcase people what it is we can do. So it started like slowly morphing more towards web. And I remember there was one class and Nick, I think at the time you had graduated already. You were doing web design at the. At the time, forgot what it was. It was in almost like Bolingbrook or Oakbrook is where you were at at the time. It was like the dental websites and things. Yeah, there was a quick. Was less than a year because then I moved over. But yeah, they were looking at them. So like Nick was doing websites at that time and like, I was like, I'm going to take a web design course here.

What, what. What year was this?

Oh, Jesus. Right after graduating, I was. It was. It had have been what, early four? 2004. Yeah. 2005. 2004. Maybe 2005. Yeah. And yes. Right. Right around that time I asked.

A web design course was offered in my college when I was.

You know, what they offered there was graphics. It wasn't really a web design course, but what they offered was, I remember at Eastern they did have like a. A web basics, but like, it just shows you how this ages things a little bit. But they didn't. Towards the end of the course, right, they were going to start to cover css, but they didn't yet because it hadn't really cough found me. That should tell you all you need to know about that. Yeah. Because in that course it was actually really fun. We started building websites and I was talking with Nicola and I was like, oh, hey, I learned how to do websites and tables. Right. You know, and he looked at me and he goes, tables aren't a thing anymore. Like, it's divs and CSS and like. And I was like, what do you mean? I'm not learning the right things. So really Nick was teaching me what he was learning and then I was bringing that back to my class. In what I was building, it was. It was like. I mean, it's like that too, but it was, you know, you look at that and you think like, well, that's even crazier because it's like, that's not really a big of a thing to Go from table, like nowadays, right. To go from a tables website, switch to a CSS website. It's work but yeah, it's just a different scale, you know, then compared to now. Yeah, it really is. And I remember, I remember that was my first real introductory other than like MySpace and you know, like playing with code there. But that was kind of like my first real big introduction into web was that class. And like talking with Nick when he was teaching me what he was learning, it was really interesting. And I remember bringing back a. Like a project at the end and my teacher going, can you explain to me how you did this? Because it was css, it was all of those other things. So that was. So you made a website jumping off. Yeah, yeah, we had to, we had to make. Done.

No, no, no, I was just gonna. I'm sorry, I didn't. Don't heard me.

Yeah, but no, wait. It was like you had to make a website for like a business or for something. And I again, my friends, my friend's band, I made a website for them and it was like, you know, everybody else is making like fake businesses or whatever, but like I really. And Dennis, you know, this by me. I'm a little extra when it comes to doing things. I like the bells and whistles occasionally. So it's like, you know, let's. I make it a little fancy fold. Never heard this. Never heard of this.

Yeah. You know, I always talked about.

I ended up like incorporating a video into there, right. And like that was huge. Like, oh my God, they can watch a video on their, on their website of like them singing and all this stuff. So like that kind of was my jumping off point. And then after college, I basically my first job was sales in a school supply kit company. And it was because I had worked there all summer long, you know, in the warehousing, doing all that actually worked with me too. That was, that. That was a warehouse job we had for a summer or two. Yeah, that was, that was interesting. Yeah, it was, it was good. It was a lot of interesting stories from that won't get into that probably for legal reasons. It's a warehouse. You work in the warehouse. You do warehouse stuff. That's.

Yeah.

But then after that when I, I started working in their office in sales and their website wasn't the best. You know, it was table based. It was, you know, but when you look at that industry at the time, everybody's was table based. It was, it was just the basics you could get. So I told him, I said, hey, let me. Let Me do the website. You know, I'll still do sales, but let me do the website on the side. So I started doing both. And then, you know, we eventually got to that crossroads where, hey, the website needs to be updated. Hey, you need to make your quota. All right, which one am I? Because one outweighs another and, like, help me prioritize. And then I ended up going into, like, it. I. Did you find that? So I did a lot of find at that time, A.J. like, at that, like, because right at that time, like, you know, being on the web was. It wasn't unheard of, Was it? Like, you know, but did you find that the company embraced the ideas? Because, like, you know what I mean? Like, you come from depending on the company and depending on, like, the knowledge of the other people there, right? You make into a company and have. Have these things where it's like, hey, you know, we could do this or we could do that. And based on the, you know, it's the analogy of the, like, you either do things or you become the dinosaur on the side of the, you know, highway. Did you find that there was any kind of, like, pushback with that? You know, like, trying to apply some of these more. You should call them at the time, modern things, you know, I. At the time, no, they were actually very open to, like, yeah, we do need a little bit more, like, refresh of things, and we do need a little bit more, like, style to some of this stuff. Right. And it was care, you know, like, that was one of the great things. They didn't care. They.

Honestly, that's what. That's what I was thinking because, like, I've done the same thing for my old company. And it was like, yeah, we do need to have something on the Internet, but it's such a low priority. Like, you know, you do whatever the hell you want with it. Because not a.

That's literally like, back in the. That's literally what it was. They were like, yeah, we have a website because that's what people do to get to us. But, like, the main avenue of sales was cold calling emails.

Exactly.

You know, it was one of those things. And it was a very interesting sales process in school supplies because you would get those emails from people saying, how did you get my information? And it's like, hey, I'd hate to break it to you. Your PTO site has your email listed on it. You're kind of opening that up. It's public information, you know, and it was. It was interesting to do a lot of that, but like that's also where I started embracing technology because I remember cold emailing, like getting these people, like we would, we would spend literally there was probably like a two week period where we would, we would have our states assigned and we would scour just school listings, PTO websites, grabbing this information, populating spreadsheets to then put into at the time, which was like a makeshift CRM of SharePoint, right? So we spent all this time doing all this stuff but then it's like, okay, well now I need to email these people. And everywhere I looked people were just copying and pasting, changing out the information, doing whatever. I'm like, no, this, this is you. You sent maybe 30 emails a day. It was painfully slow. And that's where I was like, we can automate. And that was like my first introduction to automation. And it was like mail merge was the thing. There was a, there was a toolkit called Mail Merge Toolkit. You hooked it to a Word doc and you sent it through your email. I approached the company and I was like, hey, I want to use this, you know, and this was one of those things where like again they were really open to trying new things. And he goes, you go ahead and pilot it, I'm not going to release it to everybody, but test it and let me know how it works. Suddenly I'm getting double triple the quoting that other people are getting on a daily basis. And then next thing you know it was rolled out. And that was kind of my introduction into going into it with that company. And then from there, after doing it for a couple, couple of years actually there, I was there for a while. I jumped City Agency that I was at last and that was, you know, they had an opening for a front end developer. I had by then done WordPress websites. I had done some Magento which was fun to do a little bit of E commerce. Like I did multiple different things and it was interesting going into the agency and when I got hired in the agency, Dennis, much like you, it was, I knew JavaScript, I knew something like front end stuff. I could work on some websites here and there, but they were like, hey, HubSpot's coming out with a CMS and we need somebody who can dedicate to it. Can you learn it? And I said, sure, where are the docs? And then that was kind of my journey into HubSpot. And then I think a couple years later, like I said, you know, I was talking, I think it was Zach Wolfson actually who messaged me, said hey, we're starting a developer relations Team, we're hiring advocates. Are you interested? And I was like, send me a link, man. I'm there. Sign me up. So, and it was interesting because I actually had reached out to like Luke Summerfield and them inquiring about positions within HubSpot, because being in the community, being in the dev slack helping people, I really enjoyed it and I really like believe in the brand. I do. And so I wanted to be a part of it. And that was my introduction there. And it was really funny because. And this is a story that John and I always tell for those who know John McLaren. The day of my interview, I'm in the lobby, you know, night before, just get in, fly in. I'm in the lobby, sitting there, I had just eaten dinner and I'm walking back and I hear somebody laugh and I go, I know that laugh, you know, and I look, John is sitting in the lobby and I was like, I know why you're here. And he goes, I know why you're. And it was, it was probably like one of the coolest things ever to like run into somebody else from the community who, you know, John and I talked so many times, you know, we all talked in the community at that point. And it was just so cool because after the interview we met at a, I think it was Fridays at the time that was in the mall there. And we were just sitting there talking and we literally got to a point where, and this is when, you know, you're in a good community is we looked at each other and said, I don't care if you get the job or if I get the job because either way the developer community is going to move forward based on what's happening, right? And it was like one of those things where like usually people, when they going for the same job, it's a lot of competition. But that even right there showed me like what this community was about because we're talking about the same job we're going for and either of us are like, if you get it, it's going to be great because then a lot of the things we've been talking about in the community will finally move forward. And then, you know, luck had to be, we both got hired out.

So that's so cool. So cool. I love that story, man. Do you think that the I can figure it out philosophy of like getting a job is possible these days? Like I, I, I do, I don't know if I could actually have the same job I have, like, if I started now, you know what I mean?

Does that, does that make sense, honestly? Because you know what, there's a. A lot of times, especially if you're like, kind of browsing through LinkedIn or whatever, you'll find that a lot of the questions people ask are, what do I need to know? Like, for this, this or this? Right. And, like, what's Tech Stack or what? And I think because of the fact, honestly, because there's so much more as far as, like, well, what framework, what. You know, what programming language. Right. It's. If you make it like generic and broad, it's hard. I couldn't imagine. You know what I mean? Because it's, it's. It's almost like you're picking, you know, like your superhero stats to competing with other superheroes. It's like, okay, what do I want? Do you all want Superman's laser eyes or do I want to be able to be, you know, super fast, like Flash and it's. And you can't have them all. Right. Or you, you could. You can only excel in certain ones. But it's like, especially in a playing field now with so many people, you know, are trying to buy. For sure. Yeah. It deals to me. Like, I, I don't think I could get where I'm at right now unless all the stars aligned perfectly.

Yeah, yeah. The alignment and a lot of like, trust somewhere, right? Because like when AJ said, show me the docs when you were trying to figure out HubSpot, I don't, I don't think I would have gotten the job now. I did then.

Good.

You know, because I think it was just a different time. But if I said that now in a job interview, show me the docs. I'll figure it out. I don't know. I don't know if I get the job. I think they'd find someone else who.

Already has experience in it when I. Yeah, it's. Well, I think Imposter syndrome has a lot to do with it too, because, like, even like. And we, we've all talked about this to great links like in the past, just in general. Like, if you pull that note on my, My, my. No, perfect. Perfect tire. Yeah. But so for those listening, we don't know his notes. He doesn't share anything with us. You know, he's going to leave us behind. But no, yeah, no, I think that, that, that's got a lot to do with it, to be honest. Because, like, I mean, that still hits me to this day. Imposter syndrome. Every now and then, you know, depending on what you're doing, and it's a tough hurdle to get over. And I think once you actually just ignore it and start moving forward and like you can actually feel comfortable enough to be thrown into something unknown, it is going to be something that will stop some people, but it, it really shouldn't.

I would, I would challenge you, A.J. i would challenge you a little bit on your, on your word choice. I, I don't know if ignore is the right word. I would say accept it and then be able to you move on via pass.

Yeah, I think accepting is a way better word. I'm terrible sometimes, but okay.

No, no, no.

I mean, at the end of the day, you're not going to, there's certain things you're not going to know. Like, I couldn't imagine right now the way I got into SEO was basically just the owner of the real estate company said, you know, SEO? Nope. Like we're gonna know. That was it. And there was like, you figured it out with resources. There were a couple people that worked at sister companies or companies that were friends with and have relationships that you know, could help me on if I had a question. They were gonna do my job, but, you know, they would help me out. And you know, it's like I, oh, I often like, like you mentioned those. I often wonder if that's even something passable today where it's like, you don't know anything about this. Well, we're going to, we're going to build you up.

So you do.

Where a lot of times it's now it's like, you know, you see the meme where it's like, you know, entry level, five years, 10 years experience.

Yeah, right, right, right, right, right. That, that couple that with like the work from home. Like, I don't know if like also I would have been able to build up the trust with people in areas to be able like go ahead and work on that website. I know it's not a big deal, but like do it. You know, I trust you. I, I, I'm not sure if it's a thing these days.

I don't think I would have been able to learn what I know now without being here, like completely in office. I mean, I hate it. I had to travel. God, it was like an hour and change each way. But I, I wouldn't change it for the world because like the things that I learned from like some of the smartest individual work within the real estate.

We'll cut all this out, right? Because I, I don't want HubSpot to be thinking now that like we should all go to the office. Let's just cut this section.

That section. I mean, but it's a different time too, because, like, in our. Just offense to this that this is a bad idea. There is there. There, like before there was. I mean, there were. There were pockets of like, these things to be able to learn. Whether it's the. Was it the linda.coms or the, you know, other ones where. Yeah, Corsa or Codecademy, but those weren't as prevalent before. And plus two, I think, because the way things rapidly change, I don't. I don't think those scenarios would even work now because, like, you learn one thing, right, and it's like, react, react, react. It's like, no, no, I'm more of a vujs guy. It's like if I wasn't. Even if I was in an office, it wouldn't have mattered. You know what I mean? It's done things that got changed. I would literally, yeah, I would have. I would have been doing. And again, real estate's kind of like a 247 job. It felt like a 247 job with like, when things happened, I would have been home more. Even if I was still having to go to the office, I would have been home more, learning other things. When things changed so rapidly or because there was so much of it that it wouldn't have mattered, I probably would have burned out a lot quicker than I did working, you know, a decade or so in that industry. So, you know, would you say that.

AI agents is in its infancy, would be comparable to running code? I don't think so. Right. It's way more complex.

You mean like AI agents as in, like the way they're being described now as far as like, building them out as like separate.

Right.

Yeah, I don't think. No, I don't think so. I mean, like, what I think about. And actually I had this conversation with a buddy of mine that used to work in real estate. Like, which is funny because it's like the way it looks now. Like. Like, for example, the real estate, like agents you would create would be like a mortgage calculator. Could be an agent works if you wanted to have this sort of like, you know, digital sales agent. An agent would be one that reads like like a word doc. And then that would be like your FAQs from your company. And that would be an agent that then answered these questions inside of like a. Or something like that. Whereas I've never seen any of them to an extent where that takes the place of like, front end Coding. Although I've seen like, I remember somebody tried to do like, build me a, what was it? Build me a theme. Build me a HubSpot theme for the market. Yeah, and it was, yeah. Oh, that was, that was when AI was like when ChatGPT was first putting code out and stuff. Yeah, it was, it was. That's why, like, I love AI, but I don't think it's ever going to, to replace developers fully. And like, I don't think it's ever going to replace a job to the fullest extent because, like, the one thing everybody knows is AI cannot show emotions. So there goes any type of like, thing with that. But the fact of, like, the code that does get generated, sometimes it works and sometimes it's so off the mark like it's making up APIs. Because I remember there was somebody that had an issue with one of our APIs, and I'm like, this isn't an API. Like, I mean, this. And then it came out like it's chat GPT just making things up on the fly to supplement what it's missing.

So you could say the same of certain human beings. Like, I think as well, there's one.

On this call and I don't know, we don't have to name names. That's okay. Maybe John, we're going to have to name names. That's fine. Well, let's just skipped over your journey though. I did, I did. You did? Was that intentional? Mine, I, I, I, I could say it's not like Dennis's, but mine is unique in the sense, like how Dennis is where, where is a journey that can't say many people take. I didn't go to Eastern and for any with technology, actually I got my bachelor's degree in psychology because I thought at one time in my life I was going to be a psychologist. I just didn't really like to listen to people at all. Like, I talk a lot, but I don't, you know. Are you going to, did you not.

You know, going into it?

No, I thought I could going into it, I, I, I wasn't completely oblivious to that. Knowing that that is probably one of the prerequisites of it, what I did, but I did. My wife will attest too. I, I talk a lot, but there's sometimes where I don't listen as much. Maybe I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say that's 100 true, and I don't give her credit for that, but she might be right. But at the end of the day, you Know I went to Eastern for that. I mean eg were at Eastern four by. It's a good year overlap maybe not a little bit more. I mean we took. What did we do? What class did. We got. Oh my God. Oh, it was the music or something from like. Yeah, it was like the history of music or something like a certain like year to year it was like I had to fill in some like things for student aid. So there was oceanography, there was a couple things and I was just like, yes, but you know, but no, I did, I did graduate with that and right out of. You know, once I started getting towards the end of it and I got into that tradition where I'm like, I don't know if this is what I want to do technically. I also did have a minor in was business and I think at that time what they call programming or like computer programming but it wasn't anything, you know, like you took an Oracle class you took then like a basic HTML class you didn't. It wasn't anything like groundbreaking. So from there I was kind of stuck. I was like ah, you know, do I go on and get my master's and just try to do this psychology thing or should I try to go on and maybe because our, our dad like growing up in Full transparency was a, A programmer. And um, that kind of swayed me towards moving to one end of the spectrum versus the psychology end. So what I did was, you know, I just started applying to jobs and basically the first one that said yes, that was of some sort of. Was it on Craigslist has like $5 to type up, type up this HTML and notepad like but one sec. Yeah, no, it was a place. It was, it was like dental websites and stuff. It didn't last very long because I had actually then found the real estate place which ever since that. It was like a couple months at this one place. The owners knew each other too, which was ironic. So. And then I went over to the real estate place and forever, for almost my entire career I worked at that real estate place. I'm not going to say the name. It's a great place. I just, I won't, I, I won't say the name but I'm. I'm sure the owner would be like any, any publicity is good publicity. Why did you. But he's one of those people that are too. That are like an entrepreneur that I would love to talk to and just like fire question that because of their perspective and things like that. But, but long story short that the real Estate places where I worked for a majority of the time. I took a year or two off and worked here locally because we were. Me and my wife were getting married, and we were talking about having kids. And again, that commute was killer. It was killer. I learned so much. But the commute definitely pushed me, like, mentally. But. Yeah. So all throughout that. And Charts had been working there for.

Please, please, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, we need a logo on that to.

No, I knew what was going to happen. That is. Is it not a fake motion orientation? Just to let you know, this is my soul. It's zero sugar. It is zero sugar. It's very good.

The.

For the longest time, I worked in real estate in the city, and we're just, you know, transparency outside of Chicago and the north side is where the place was. But I would say probably into my second. I call it my second leg of working there because I took bedtime off in between. That's when AJ started saying, like, hey, you know, I started working for this place. You should, you know, check it out. Check out the things. And, like, you just started there. I'm sure everything sounds great. You know what I mean? Like, you get that. Like, that's one of those things, too, that you get, not just imposter syndrome, but you get that kind of like, I'm going to go in there and I'm going to turn this place onto theater and let me show you. Like, I'm going to. I'm going to fix everything. It doesn't work like that. But in your mind, no matter how old you get that first couple of weeks, you think that's the case, just like, oh, he's probably just, you know, he's just probably really excited, and it sounds great and all this other stuff, but, you know, after a couple, you know, a year or so went by, that's when he sent me the position for. There was a particular position that I applied for that I wanted. It sounded really good. I got it. And, you know, and that's kind of how I got in here. And then, you know, after, you know, something got shifted around. That's where I'm at, where I'm at currently. But, yeah, without. Without that original push by aj, I know. I honestly don't think I would have, like, proactively went out. I'm. I'm going to go scour the HubSpot jobs again. Let me go see. You got to go see. I got to do this. Got to do this. Because you don't do it, you know, the way they Treat employees here was. I didn't believe it, honestly. I mean, you work in real estate. Like I said, it's, it's a, it's a bit cutthroat, you know, into a certain aspect. The boundaries of hours kind of get blurred sometimes. Right. Like I would take a train, I just train home and it be gonna take an hour and a half to get home sometimes. If you know, the metro here is not like sometimes always the greatest. But you know, then the minute you get home there'd be an email that's something had to get fixed immediately because there's an emergency. Yeah. Like it's been, we're going on 10 hours now. I'm like, okay, let's get this one done then. So, you know, hearing anything outside of that was. I'm like, yeah, no, that, that ain't real. Nah, nah, can't be, can't be. You know, then later, you know, you come to find out you have to tell Ed. Right. And it is so.

Well, you know, you really don't have to.

Yeah. I mean, but it's, it's right. I love hearing. Yeah. I've been here three and a half years, so it's obvious like something was right. I can't, you know, just kind of shrug it off as a coincidence. But. But yeah, no, and that's where I kind of. And really it was, I'll be honest, like we're talking about like, you know, learning things and was it possible then? It was a real eye opener like coming here just because of the fact, like just the way. And it's not just because it's HubSpot but like HubSpot esque companies, Bigger companies essentially. It's. It's like night and day. Like the real estate place I worked for was big. Big as in like one of the biggest in the city. But the company size, I mean you have realtors, you have brokers, 500, 600. Those aren't real. They're 1099. That means they're not real. Like they arrive, group a bunch of people in that so we can cut that in post. But they're not, they're not core. Like they're under 1099, so they're not actually like, you know, salary employees. So going from that to here, it was like a huge. And then any little job I had in between, same thing. Huge, huge. Just the way things are structured, the way things work. Maybe like, you know, you have goals and you have like what we call, you know, OGPs and things like that. And it was just like, that stuff was up. Yeah, we use jira, but that's. The rest of this was like, never heard of. And I know the acronyms are overwhelming, you know, sometimes, but compare that to never using an acronym unless it was like a real estate acronym. Right. Like an HVA for home value analysis. There was nothing when it came to like structurally internal. Like, it was just. Yeah, it was mind blowing. The complete different. Right. Almost to the point where it was like huge imposter syndrome. That's why it's like, when I, I first. I never thought that I was like, I guess that sounds like a real thing. It was evidently clear that it was a real thing when I went from that level of company to something like this, so. But, you know, ever since then, this is where I've been and. And I don't regret a day of it because I think I've. I've absorbed a lot more than you normally would if you just went to some other place where you were just kind of like, put in the spot, don't move from that spot. Don't, you know, you know, head down, punch out at five. Yeah, there's just a tremendous difference there that I personally, I think like, the growth. This journey would have never happened any other way. And I will lots of it to the real estate company as well. But like, between that, learning those kind of like, ways of doing things, and then here, it was a really, really good kind of one, two punch, essentially. So do you get a.

Do you get a discount on houses when you work for a real estate company?

I don't know if I should say this out loud.

Oh, whoa, whoa.

You can discount on houses. You can't just be like dog. But there, I mean, like, you do pay closing costs that you do pay. Like, there are commissions to the realtors and like, depending on who you use. So, like, there's things where, you know, that they may not be as expensive.

Chris, tell me it's a simple yes.

No, no, it's not a simple yes or no answer that's specifically selling you. It's not as simple as. But no. You heard of your discounts? Real estate. Got it. It's not like that at all. But like, but there are benefits to knowing the people who are actually, like, advocating for you. I'm sure you know what is probably one of the biggest investments, if not the biggest investment of your entire life, you know, especially if you're doing like a house. All right, any condo in the city, close to the lake. But yeah, it's. It was one of Those things where that experience and then this experience here is. Yeah, I don't think you could replicate that again if you tried.

Yeah. You know, I think the reason you both work here is like, your parents in the will have a obligation. You have to work to the same place if you were to inherit anything.

I've always. Our mother has always been like, you guys should open up your own thing. And I'm like, you want me to work with who? Like, imagine if there were more than two of us, like, the devil. Would you. Oh, man, it would be. It would be two people just talking. All like four or five, whatever to talking. It was just people dropping out of meetings like crazy, being like, oh, yeah. It's always interesting when. When people have asked me like, oh, you work with your brother, you know, you're not supposed to ever work with family. And I'm like, you guys just like, it's one of these things. Right. People just don't get it sometimes because, like, the way that we work when we work together is like, business is business.

Right.

And then anything that is like a personal thing, like, we'll talk about that after work. But like, we, like, our work ethic has always been like, we're here to work during work hours. We're not doing, like, in certain circumstances, I could see where that rings a lot more true. Like if we both, you know, if we were both co owners of like a T shirt, you know, company or something like that, what we're making, like, financial decision. You know what I mean? Like, the decisions we're making aren't, you know, they have a different. Different consequences around them. Right. It would probably be harder, you know, in the previous than. Than the latter here, where it's like, we're on the same department. We're not necessarily on the same team. Yeah, we work real closely together, but some of the things, even the decisions we make aren't even ours to make and either one of us, you know, so. But there's. Yes.

I think they also like each other. You know, that's kind of.

Right.

I discovered a while back, or maybe just like dawned upon me that because I have a. I have a sister, and I have a great relationship with my sister, so I just kind of assume everyone has that. And apparently that's not true.

Yeah, surprisingly. Yeah. Yeah. Then I. I thought that too. That I kind of thought that too Big hair. It's just. It's a roll of the dice, I guess, in some circumstances. But, yeah, it does help. I mean, obviously, if you don't hate the person you're talking there. Which is why I must do. I don't know how we get along so well, Dennis. It's just crazy. But you know, but I was, I was going to ask both of you too because like, you know, we talked about, you know, quite a bit about like our, our history coming to here and a lot of that's been techie to a certain aspect. There was like a, a job you could take or if it was one that you created or if it was a business or whatever that you could do that was not. That could take you away from tech as much meat grit, endeavor. You know what I mean? Unless you're on a deserted island like rearranging rocks, you're never going to get away from technology. Right. So to speak. But if there were a job where that could take you away from it as much as possible that you would do, what do you think that would be? Because I often think about that.

Oh, easy. No, I don't. I know I would be a park ranger. I mean if, if, if it wasn't for the fact that you're paid not a lot. You know, I could not support a family on my salary as a park ranger. When I was in Florida, maybe. No, I don't know. That would easily. That or farmer. I would be a farmer. But I don't know if I could ever get away from tech because I always like, want to involve like I want to automate things. I want to make things easier. So I, even if I was, you know, hoe in a field, I, I would be trying to figure out a way to automate the thing.

No, that's fair. I just meant like with it, with respect to like getting away from it as much as you could. I mean there's going to be things where, you know, like doing something, doing X versus like being and you know, programmer or things like, you know what I mean, where it's like armor, Armor, armor. I don't know. I don't think you know, the reason I brought this question up is I think me and Dennis can answer this, but I don't think you can. That's right. I don't think I can. I don't think you could. You go, you go heavy on things that you do and I don't think, I don't think you could separate the two. Even if there was like, even if I told you, like, okay, your job right now is going to be painting. Just painting walls. That's it. Like with a brush. Not like you would find a way. I would I would find, I would find a way to get like a rope. I would, I, I over. I over technical engineer everything. And like my, my wife even constantly is like, I don't need a solution. I'm just trying to explain something to you because like my mind is always solution based. Like, well, we can automate. Yeah, we can do that.

Like lost therapy to deal with that, my friend. That's you're supposed to acknowledge, right? Come on.

Yeah, full transparency. Like it is really hard for me sometimes to separate like, you know, like the work life balance. Like my mind is always going. I feel like you're reading my note because everything you mentioned in like literally the next thing. More foods. I'm not somehow. It's weird. It is weird. It is weird. But it, it is, it's just like I don't know if I could do it because like I, I am kind of like, like the work life balance has probably been the hardest thing for me. Especially since going remote. Like when I worked in an office. Like it was much easier. The drive home was my decompression period right here. It's a little bit harder because it's like, okay, hey, the, you know, it's getting to 4:30. Oh, I gotta go pick the kids up from school. Or hey, I gotta go do this. And it's like I walk out of the office. But like I had to really left the thing. So like I am like going on walks now like after work, like I'll take the dog for a walk. You know, like do things to kind of try and clear my head more. But like, I don't know if I could ever give technology. What about art? What about art?

Could you do art as a. I used to.

So my favorite thing when I was younger is I used to draw, but I would do it in ballpoint. No, he would do it for an AI. He would do some sort of AI drawing.

You know, he would, you know, he would.

I would, I would like now I would probably, I would probably just draw. He'd be running art competitions for AI bots or something. You know, it, you know, you probably like. I do. I just, I just love technology a lot. But honestly, if I had to mainly because like thinking about it a little bit more, it does involve technology. But this also wasn't a like a thing when we were younger. And I really wish it would have been but like esports, like, I probably would be very heavily involved in like video game tournaments and stuff like that.

True.

I'm. I guess I would push back on that. Just a little bit is. I'm actually weren't terrible at them, but it, it actually, I'm actually kind of glad we kind of grew up in. And I can't remember I was just talking with this or talking to somebody about this, but we grew. Maybe it was you, Dennis, when I was chilling down a bus with you. We grew up in an era where we didn't have. And now we have, right? And with a lot of aspects. And I think, like, yeah, I think that makes it easier for me to be able to pick something and say, well, if I could, like, we, me and my son, we drive by this, like, commercial lot of buildings, right, that don't have anything in them yet. They're smaller, right? So they like smaller shirt kind of buildings. But every time I drive by and I tell them, I'm like, I'm going to open up a coffee shop right there. I want to open up a coffee shop. Now granted, you're going to have technology with respect to brew stuff or. But, but, but like in its most like, basic form, I just want to like, make coffee, serve coffee, have a coffee place where people can sit down, you know, like the whole like piped bar stool.

You manage it.

You know, and even if, even if there was some marketing to it, like, hey, build me a, make me a logo. I don't, I don't want to do it. You know what I mean? Or build me a website. Someone else do it. I'll look at it and be like, yeah, it looks good, but just do it. I don't even want to do it. I could. So, so could you do that if.

You, you delegate, like, let's say like your, your favorite thing, but you delegate these, these tech tasks to other people. Would you be able.

I could probably do that. I know, I know. Growing up, I always wanted to do animation for Walt Disney. I always thought that, like, and, and this is going to sound super cheesy, and it always does. But like, when I was younger, my, my reasoning when people would ask me as I was like, put a little kid in front of a TV and show him Mickey Mouse and tell me that that expression isn't priceless, like the. It's not to me, like, it wasn't so much about the characters or the things that you were drawing. It was the joy that you brought to people through a story. And I think that's what made me fall in love with marketing is like the joy that you can bring people just by simply telling a story in the right way. And so thinking about it like if I had to go back, it probably would still be animator for Walt Disney now because like, as we've been talking, like I was thinking about like, what did I want to do when I grew up? And like they. So I think it would be that because like it always interested me like seeing those drawing sessions of them, like bringing the lions in and like drawing the lions and like, and do stuff like that. I always felt like that was such a powerful thing to be able to create such a motion pen or like a, you know, tentpole. So I think if I had to, it might be doing like animation stuff which still to today's is. Is technology based because like my kids love to show Bluey. And the first thing I did is rather than look everything up, I was like, what do they use to make bluey? And like I found the software that they use and I was like, how much is it? Could I do this? And I'm over techie on that at all?

No, not at all. No.

No. I don't think I could ever strike wave in tech, but it would probably do like animation and stuff like that. Very. Be fair. It's honest.

You can't, you can't get away from tech. It's always going to be there. Exactly right. Just how much, how much it like takes over your mind.

It's how much in that separation too. Like, like is you can do like I said, like I would be like, yeah, go ahead, make me a website and I'll just let you know if I like it or not. And then, you know, I could do that.

Can I ask France both you a question? Like as. Because you're, you're a little younger, right, aj?

I mean, how many years, three years older hours into this? I thought this wasn't it. So on that walk, on that walk.

You take with your dog, aj, you said you were looking at, with the tick tock. Right, Right. Um, both of you, if you're to walk, do you require looking at some sort of device to.

No, not, not, not. For me. This is something that just piqued my interest because I was like, aren't your detective put me in. Right. You know, so I would fight him for that. But yeah, usually when I'm walking, it's more just like nothing on like no technology, nothing. Just walking the dog and taking in what's around me. Because for me I need like there's a lot of people that can be like, oh, hecticness is happening. Cool. I'm just gonna go over here to. I need quiet like for me, pure, quiet, dark room. Like, Nick, you and I were talking yesterday, and you brought up that episode of Sherlock where the guy has, like, the goggles, right? And he's got. And it's really so, like, there's a scene in there, right, where he goes into his vault, and they're trying to figure out how to get in a vault. What is the vault? What is vault? So, spoiler alert, if you haven't watched the episode, don't listen in the next five seconds, there is. We open up the door, and it's a. It's a blank room with a chair, and that's it. To me, that is, like, Zen. Like, put me in a room with a chair, no windows, close the doors, and just let me think it out real quick. And then that's where I do my best. Solitary confinement. But, I mean, yeah, that's. I mean, the premise, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, for me, like, the quiet lets my brain just keep, like, rapid firing, and then eventually it will run out of steam and I will have formulated what I need to do, and now I'm ready to move. So that's a good segue, because that actually work life balance was going to be the next thing, which obviously read somehow, but, but, yeah, that's. I, I, I could appreciate that. I. Dennis, do you find yourself doing, like, similar things like that? I mean, like, there's, there's people who can operate, you know, in chaos. Like, sometimes chaos is like home, you know, as far as, like, things going on all around you. And then, you know, there's. There's the other end of the spectrum, too, where it's like, I need everything. Like, and with technology, too, with the work life balance as well.

But, yeah, Yeah.

I even have a rule where it's like, no fallen at the table or reading.

Yeah, good for you.

Yeah, I can't always. I don't always follow it, but, like, do you find yourself. Do you need. Can you do it in the chaos like that, or do you need sort of.

Yeah, so. So I, I'm. I'm kind of similar to aj. Like, if you get AJ and me in a room or in a, like, in a slack DM or anything like that, we can go crazy, like, off, like, into weird places. That does not help the situation at all. Like, you know, I can happily live in chaos. I love living in chaos, but it's terrible for me, you know? Like, I, I have to pull myself away from it, and I'll be as cheesy as possible now. Now that the kid, honestly, like that has been kind of like the anchor that has allowed me to, you know, decouple from. From the chaos. And like when she gets home, my mind kind of like changes and I become more like family first type person. But I don't know, I'd be. If she wasn't around. Like, you know, I love my wife and all, but we. I would still be in the, the chaos, I think if the agency life was really. I mean that was like, that was it, you know, like it was as fast.

It was furious.

It was crazy. It was 24 7. You just don't know you're launching a website at 3am you know, just for someone in, you know, Germany. It was. I don't know why there, but yeah, I loved it, but it was awful. I mean it just didn't stop and it was. It's just not good. So, yeah, I, I am a huge fan of the work life balance and I don't know why we're plugging HubSpot so much. You know, I guess to stay Floyd, but ever since I've worked here, it's been easier, right? I mean like I, I can actually leave when I need to go pick up the kid or if she has an event. It's like I'm not going to be here for a few hours or I need to take a mental health day. Those types of things are like actual real things.

Yeah. And I think it helps too because like they hold you to that through clock. I'm glad that got in that I'm still going. I try my hardest to. When it comes to the outlet, but it just got anyone who, anyone who listens to this now that. That needs to be like a staple in like.

Yeah, I seriously want to make coffee cups or shirts with your.

I would 100 rock that. Hear that? He has a. He has a thing on his computer that like talks to him. Yeah, it's I. The express authority settings. I have it read out the time on the hour and honestly, it's part of work life balance. Right. Because yeah, it's. It's not what we did.

No, it was.

I did, I did because the biggest thing. Right. So one time, this is the only time it's ever happened and I still don't hear the end of it. Every now and then I forgot to pick up my kids from school and it was because I lost track of time and I was like, oh my God. And it was like, you know, like it was one of those days where like the wife and I, we, we flip Flop. Who's gonna pick up kids this day? We can pick them up. And it was. She had something at work. I need to pick them up today. Got it. Cool. She said it to me in the morning. As my wife will attest, she'll tell me things. And it is in one ear, out the other. Half the time if I am on my phone or on my computer, I cannot multitask and have a conversation. But, like, if it's. If it's like, random slacks, I can do that. But if it's physically talking to somebody and typing, I will just. And so I forgot to. We'll cut this if DCFS calls. So we'll just. Yeah, but then when it tells me three o', clock, I'm like, gotta go get the kids. So, like, it's gonna be cool. It's so, like, to me, that. That. That is part of, like, the work life balance thing is that. And like, I. I think and. And how you said, like, we're promoting HubSpot a lot, but, like, there literally has been times where, like, it's been like, hey, you haven't taken days off, right? Go take some days off. Or like, hey, yo, are you okay? Like, you seem like that. You. You've got a lot of work on your plate. You seem like you might be stressed. Is there anything bothering you? Well, yeah, you know, like this papal kit. What are you, like, go. Go take a. Like a longer lunch.

You know, just, like, breathe a little bit.

They don't just, like, make you work. They, like, hold you to a standard of a healthy work life. Like a workflow, a work life balance. I mean, it exists, but, like, for me, like, it wouldn't have existed, like, previously. And again, it's a knock on the real estate business or the place I work. They treated me very, very well, but the work life balance was not. It couldn't be established with, like, the things I was trying to do there and they wanted me to do versus here, where it's like, even things they also wants me to do. I. That. That first year I was here, Chris my. The Chris that. That I knew would be like, it's five o'. Clock. Get out of here. What are you doing? Like, why are you still. And I was like, I got to get this done. I got to get this. He's like, no, he'll be fine. Like, that showed its face a little bit in real estate sometimes, but, like, here, it was almost like a staple. Like, it was always. You could find it, which was just mind blowing to me on it.

Yeah. I'm curious to see what things actually missing on our team is. When I was in the support side on the community, in the community forums, there's a lot of people from Europe who work there who would take two weeks off instead of one. And it's like the European thing, right? Like they are a cool thing. And two weeks off is actually where you actually disconnect from work. Like that first week you kind of still think about the second week, you actually melt away and you enjoy it. It's so American of us. Like, I, I don't know if anyone on our team's actually taken a two week vacation since.

I don't know, I'll take a day off and I'm, I'll still like at 2 o' clock be like, oh, I got to review this thing and that. Like, I don't. Yeah, don't be wrong. I get told like, don't do that. Why are you doing that? It's not like I'm that but like doing it for like 12 years, you know, in another.

I know it's right.

Yeah.

Hard.

Why does your guilt. I know artists. Our internal slack is very interesting for the fact that. Have you guys ever messaged people on your day off when you've, when you've marked it and it's, hey, it's your day off. I love them that when I, when I saw that I was like, this is just another reason as to why like even like they're literally telling you you took a day off, take a day off. And like I, I just think it's fantastic to be able to do that.

It's hard to do that though, isn't it?

Oh, it's super hard. It's super hard. It's, it's. Yeah. Why don't we jump to. Let's talk a little bit about. We're talking about work, life balances and then getting away from technology. But let's talk about things that are more like things in tech we're excited to see. And it doesn't have to be, it could be like a product, it can be like a thing. It doesn't have to be related to HubSpot or anything. Like, I mean, I know and granted we work there, so we should mention. Right. We just had a conference in which we talked about quite a few things that are brand new. Right. From a technology perspective. But like for example, for me, and I'll steal this one because I don't think anybody really knows of its existence because it's not something normally people look up but for me, continuous glucose monitor, just earning on a pushed one. I think it just got FDA approved. That's a year long which I still have to read. Like I, I'm just reading the headline and to me I was like. Cuz one's the one I use is like 14 days right to to monitor blood sugar. And I think the, the competing brand, and I won't mention the brand unless I want to promote it. Um, always thinking like a marketer. No, but no, like it only lasts 10 days. But this one they said is for a year. Which I thought was quite interesting due to the fact like you have to replace these things for infection reasons and like other things like that. So for me it was just like seeing it come this far just the way it is now where it's like oh, I can continuously check my blood sugar for 14 days straight with my phone. Right. There's some inaccuracies. You should always. I'm not a doctor always, you know, consult your doctor. But you should check it. You know the finger sticks as well. But just this alone and now going from 14 and now they're talking about a year for me and from a technology standpoint is like awesome. I love to see it. I'll follow it all day long and for me that's one of the things where it's like I'm excited to see that where it can go.

That's you know the problem with you starting and maybe saying anything at all right now is that what you were talking about is actually useful and not superficial. Like my thought was something new and cool with who cares if it actually exists. Yours actually has like life altering features to it. Mine is like whatever. I'm a huge fan of Home Assistant which is like home automation. Like instead of using Google Home or Amazon, whatever, you can build your own Raspberry PI and do all kinds of fun things with home automations. I love that it does nothing. Like maybe we can tie in your mod of the creation.

I mean it just has to be interesting. It doesn't have to be like that was interesting. I had other ones too but I took that one because that was the one that was related to me. I was like, I mean I'm sure it read my notes already, probably has the upworks but. But no, I want to make this.

Stuff I'm interested in asshole now like.

No, I said the whole automation stuff too. I love like it's. That's another interesting thing to you know, to.

Yeah, yeah. The fact that you don't have to like have like when you do with Google home or anything, you always have to have an Internet connection. Right. And with the home assistant you can do things totally locally. So also you just, your, your data is not stored. Well mean, at this point my data is already all stored there. I noticed. I don't know why.

That's their language. It's everywhere. Like I've gotten. Do you know any like, like data breach, leak, mail had things do you are of value?

I mean like, like Yep, I know. What am I going to do about it?

Yeah, more. I'm sure we'll get sued but thanks Home Depot, thanks everybody else. Like I've already got the three other ones that have told me the same thing from three other big companies. I'm like, at this point I might as well just put it on a website and say this is my information that I'm willing to part with on my credit card. I, I, there's nothing I could do about it at this point. Yeah. My take on the information is that even if you don't give any information away, your purchasing patterns, your habits, everything can still identify you. Everything can still do. And I, and Dennis, I think I've told you this before and Nick, I know you've probably heard me talk about the story of way back, way back in the day and I say way back in the day knowing clearly that I'm 40 and I sound like I'm 90. There was an article that came out of how Target knows you're pregnant now. You guys ever.

Yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah.

And the whole thing was that a dad got really mad because Target was sending offers to his daughter that revolved around like baby stuff. And he's like, this isn't right. And it turns out the daughter was pregnant she just had years ago. As a, oh cop. It has to be way over, way over 10, 10 to 15.

Imagine how much has changed by now.

That's what I'm saying. And like it's one of those things where like this has always been a thing. It's just because of the advancement of technology we know more about it. Right. It's the same as like, like nowadays, you know, safety is safety first when it comes to kids and things like that. Right. All of the things that are happening in the world today were still happening back when we were younger and stuff. It's just, it wasn't mainstream, it wasn't real time. There was no TikTok and Facebook and things to get that information right away. So these things have always Right. Or more did you all did you all read this. Did you all.

I'm sorry, interrupt you did you all just wrote a story on. I don't know what it was on the Verge or something like that. About the meta glasses.

Yes.

Like, people were on a train and, like, were able to dox people, like, real time.

So, like, it takes pictures, it goes.

To Instagram, like, does a facial search, and then it goes and gets databases and brings up all this.

We were taking the glasses and sending the feed to an Instagram Live. Yeah. And then they were using another computer to monitor Instagram Live and use AI to recognize the faces and do public searches on databases. Real time. Real talking strangers.

Like, they knew then.

That's like. And that's the uk they did. Was that. That. That's what the. I can't remember. It's. Is it the Reinbach theory or whatever? I think that's the. The episode of Sherlock where it's like that. Literally when that. When that episode was made, this wasn't even a thing possible. You know what I mean? They made it like, oh, this guy just knows everything. Because they show, like, again, not to spoil it, but they show, like, through the eyes of this individual that's Sherlock's nemesis at the time. And he's like, information. You know what I mean? It looks like little information being printed, and you assume it's his, like, breeding glasses that are doing this. It's some crazy technology that's now live. It wasn't. It didn't end up being just, you know, his brain knew this stuff, but now it's. That's kind of villain is possible because it's like the glass. And I'm sure that's not the intent. I don't want meta being like, you know, I'll get a letter of cease and assist. But it makes the reality that much more closer than humanly possible. So it's terrible. It's. It is. It is one of those things. And again, like, not. Not to, like, go backwards, but to kind of tie that in with, like, with technology and kids. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, digital photos, all of this stuff. It's just one more thing to have to worry about is like, now what. What can they do with this? And it's. Yes, that. That. That I have to say, is the hardest thing. Like, that. That is like, we are. We're in that era of raising kids on this modern technology. Like, looking back to, like, when we were growing up, it was like, oh, hey, we have a computer. Yeah, it's command line to Start Windows. Like, we're not really going to be getting into crazy stuff here. Whereas now it's like all the rage. And like, it's. It's hard to keep up with sometimes. You know, like, even start working in tech, it's hard to keep up with all of this stuff. Like, my kids are talking about wanting to play, and I'm not going to say the name of the platform, but they want to play an online video game and I won't let them. And it's because I've read things, you know, and I've seen things and it's. And it's those types of things where, like, it's hard to protect our kids all the time from technology. So, like, we do embrace technology in the house, but at a. At a strict level of like, hey, like, you're not going to be playing video games all day long, you know, Right? For sure. You can tell if they're stressed or if they've had a bad day, go release the stress. Like, players have it for a little bit, but then we're gonna do homework or, you know, we're gonna go. Like, I make the kids go on a walk with me sometimes at night because I'm like, no, we just need clear our heads. It's been a crazy day, you know, so it's things like that. But like, yeah, technology is, is moving fast. Like, I can only imagine what, like, if my children decide to have kids, which is totally their choice, but like great kids in the future, what is that going to be like? Right? Well, it hasn't really been that many years since all these advancements in technology, I research, but it's that weird battle in that line you're trying to draw where it's like on one end, you don't want your kids to be like cave people banging rocks and drawing on the wall. And at the same time, too, it's like, I don't want to be one of those, and I feel bad for them sometimes. But like, you're at a, you're at a restaurant and you're, you know, even if you don't have kids, right? Even if it's a nephew or even if it's like, you know, you know, somebody that you know and it. But you, you know, you look over, you know, I'm not one of those people that. I'm not going to assume something, but like, you stare at this other family at the table next to you, and it's at all, all four of them are just like this, right? Like at the table and I'm just like, somebody throw a pie, like something. You know what I mean? Like, do you have, like, have a conversation? Like, that's why I'm kind of. I try like as much as I humanly can. It's just like, no, no, no fault. It's you. You know, like, my son will love to play video games as well as, you know. And you know, right the minute he comes in the door, can I play? And no. Do I read a book, go run around, go do something else, then maybe later. But then, you know, like, we played.

Video games when we were kids, right? I mean, I was. We did do it. It was just like not all encompassing.

All because they weren't nearly as good as they are now too. That's like. They were. I mean, they were, they were great for like when you. When there was nothing to compare to. Sure, they were awesome, but like, it wasn't. Do you know what I mean? Like, if, if they had the games they had now it sound like. I know I sound like like a million years old, but like, just.

We should probably retitle this podcast to something like, you know.

But no, did that. The quality of it, the online presence of it and all that. I would have never, you know, I mean, like, they had stuff like that before, like, like Ultima Online and things like that where it was like. Or the. It was, you know, a massive multiplayer one. I mean, it was like 2D stuff. You weren't sitting there, nothing like now where it's like, it's. You could see where people just get immersed kind of like. Ready Player one. That's the reason why you think that movie. Yeah, I could see that being a reality at some point in the future and.

Oh yeah, definitely cool because of the.

Technology factor, but it's terrifying because of the, like what it does to our humanity in general, you know, so. But yeah, no, that, that's one of those things too. Yeah. Where's hard? Like, where do you draw that line? That's a, that's. It's a really hard one to do.

For sure.

Yeah, it's something because I mean, if you think about it, you hear in the news stories all the time, oh, people hit by cars or people walking off cliffs because they're not looking up. Like, they fall into the. Like. What was the one in the restaurant where. I can't remember if it was who it was, but they're like, they're, they're. They're. They worked at the restaurant, but they're walking and walking and they must have had one of those, like, the storage things that go downstairs, and they hit. It was open, and they're just walking. They're walking with the phone and just. I'm like. I'm like, oh, like, how do you have it? Like, yeah. It's one of the first things that was the hardest thing I had to instill into the kids is, like, listen, when you're on your device, when you're walking, the device goes down, right? Like, yeah, for sure. So, like, they're good at it. Now. We're like, we'll go to get in the car, and, like, they're playing, and then all of a sudden, they put it down and walk to the car and get in. I'm like, that's all I want out of this. Like, if you learn anything, please just never put it down when you're moving, because last thing I need is you get taken out by the dog or, like, smack her face into the car. Like, that would be horrible.

So there was. There was a story recently about a person whose family member was choking at. I don't know where they were. They. They went to YouTube to, you know, watch a video on CPR, and they were complaining to YouTube because there was an ad at the beginning of it.

That's.

It couldn't. Like, why.

This is, like.

This is where you should not rely on technology. You should already take a CPR class. You know? Like, you should know these things.

Yeah. I mean, I'll be honest. I don't. I have to. Every year, I have to rewatch the video of how to start my snowblower, because I can never remember, like, on valve, like, which. Which way the valve is supposed to go. And it's. It's so funny because I watched the same video every year, and it is the sweetest. It is the sweetest older man and his wife, and, like, they're joking around at the beginning, and he's like, are you recording now, honey?

Okay.

Like, it's the greatest video ever. But, like, if that video went away, I would probably not know how to start my snowblower.

Does the view count go up by 1 per year? Like, is it just you the only person that views it?

You would think, but it gets tons of views. And I'm like, yeah, because this is a staple right there. Like, this is funny. They need to hire this man and just be like, oh, you bought the snowblower. Watch this. Like, you know, like, I used to give you VHS tapes back in the day for four days.

Right. By the way, A.J. quick, quick. Plug for all things electric, get an electric snowblower. Because, man, that's so much nicer than.

Yeah, I need to. I need to get. So I use a lawn service here and, like, I have a lawnmower, but, like, I want to get an electric, like, weed whacker and things like that. So it's. It's definitely one of those things where, like, yeah, I need a. I. I need a lawns. For somebody who loves technology, like, I don't embrace it nearly as much as I should work in the house. Like, Web. Yeah. Right here is like, I still like the bushes in front. Like, I'll use shears. And my wife's like, just use the trimmer. And I'm like, It intimidates me. I don't. There's a limit to what you'll. You'll accept in technology. There's a. That's that limit right there. That is. That is it. Yeah. That's awesome. That is awesome. So here's what I was thinking we were gonna do because I'm probably getting close to time for our episode. I hit all.

For a while.

I've been dealing. I know, I know. I was just trying to find a gentle landing for. Without hating each other and logging off. I had always watched for the lines. Again, I'm trying not to show my. But I believe it was Craig Kilborn on the Daily show. And he always used to do these, like, it was like rapid fire. Ten questions, right? And I always used to like it because there was no. I mean, there was no good answer or sometimes it was literally asked in a way because it was supposed to be like, you weren't supposed to be able to answer correctly. So I wanted to, like, end these and we'll see how it will go. While this goes, it depends on who you're talking to. Like, if someone really serious or is just like, they're just going to be like, this is dumb. Thank you. I'm not going to walk, so. But I. I'll need you guys to keep honest because I'll ask questions and each one of you can answer, and then I'll tell you if you're right or wrong. And then what do you do?

Do I need to put, like, on headphones?

Something? Is this, like, quiz show? Like, are we going to feed him the answers when he's got them on? I've got. I've got a headset here. I can just kind of throw. You can both answer, but just be honest with your answers. And if one gives, you know, just. I. So that way we'll do it like that. I make no guarantees, but I know, like I said, this could be a complete failure, and then I could just blame it on both of you and just say it was your idea. So, I mean, we're cut. We're here, and we can. We can do it with that. That's fine. I have no problem. But you've been doing it your whole life, Nick. It's fine. Obviously, I need to take Most, if not 30 split. We're all very.

Oh, wow. Wow.

That's pretty generous. That's. That's pretty generous. So we'll do this. All right, so we'll go. And I have. And literally, I have the answers on a different sheet because obviously somebody's been looking at the notes, so I'm glad I did that. So, Again, question number one. In which year did Microsoft release Windows 95?

1994. 1996.

Let's go with 96. Just because Dennis took 94, somebody want to give the right answer. 2002, Windows 95. Well, I didn't know if this was a trick question, so.

I think it was released in Jan. Or Dec. 28, 1994.

You know what I'm gonna do? You know, I'm gonna do too. I'm gonna keep. I'm gonna keep score in somewhere. If this actually does, why are you.

Being an and not telling us?

I'm. Just wait. Just wait. These are the war zones 10 questions. If that was your official answer, then AJ has one, and Dennis has zero because it was 1995. So. But I think my six originally. All right. Originally would give one answer. I was hoping this was a. Oh, my God. I hate. They only released this once in one year. It didn't keep releasing Windows 95 every year. So you're giving multiple answers, but. So you bought that zero, so that's good. That's. Because what I. What I hope is if this does take off, that we'll have a scoreboard of the people who have done the show and their scores up there to that.

Oh, wow.

So.

So I'll.

I'll.

It'll be publicly known that I had zero so far. Cool.

Cool. It's only question one. There's still nine more you can do. Which Ninja Turtle would you be if you had to choose? Donatello, hands down. Come on.

Why Donatello?

He was the technophile.

Them. I probably Michelangelo, the. The. The one who just jokes all the.

Time actually know we were looking for Leonardo. We're looking for leaders here. We're looking for true leaders. And you Guys, you both did. You didn't choose a leader. I. This was awful. Captured, didn't he. Wasn't Leonardo the one that always got captured? But he was the leader. It don't matter. At them.

Was he also the whiny one?

Maybe that's why I gravitated more towards laying on. Because it was the wine.

You.

I think you gravitate more so you get half points on that. We'll give you half points. That's fair. That.

That's.

That's very.

It's very leadership.

Like, see, I just. I just solved a quarrel. I'm good. True leadership quality right there. Well, now, this one we may have to cut later, but I would love to know your favorite HubSpot employee with a mohawk. We'll give you time. Give me time. Can I search the people directory? Like, do I have to answer it?

Yeah, this is a hard one.

I'll bet. Yeah, I'm sure it is. Sure it is.

I'm kind of blanking, so I'm gonna.

Go with Luke Summerfield because he actually does have Mohawker. Did at one point.

Oh, my God. I love. Now Luke is amazing.

You know, you both don't get the credit for that. I'm just going to let you know right now, love Luke to death. But if that's your answer, you're not getting the points. The answer would have been me. And I'm just saying. I mean, I'm making. I'm making this whole thing enjoyable. So the answer would have been me, but that's for yourself. You're making an enjoyable thing for who I just said I was enjoying.

Also, another leadership quality is like make sure that everyone sucks up to me. Got it.

In the books I've read, that's pretty much how it's outlined. So I just.

All right, Leo. All right, Leo, you keep on going.

All right, we're on question four. How many cats do you need for a colony? I want to say that's just because I like the show, though. Yeah, yeah.

Colony depends on what country and where are we located for this? Because it changes.

This is a United States question. Question.

Is it eastern United States or is it western? Because also again, regional.

Area. The coconut. East of the Mesa. Dixon Line, I believe. Oh, wow. North of I or south of I80. Because everybody knows that Illinois north of south makes a big. Yeah, that makes a big difference. You can just take Illinois out of this completely because it's variates.

Yeah, gotcha.

I'm gonna say. I'm going to say five cats.

That's close. A.J. and I. I. Nick, I think you know the answer to this one. It's clearly seven.

Actually, it's going to be three or more. So you both get the points. All you had to do is not say anything less than three. Good. I'm glad. This is good. Good. This is going good. Now, number five is going to be how many months have 28 days? One. Yeah, there's. There's only one. But it depends on the year. Is if it's a leap year. It doesn't have 28 days. We'll say on average how many. Where's your logic in there? So 0.25 on average. On average how many months. It's only on average is a quarter.

Of the years of the months have 1.0.25 of one month has. Is 28 days. If you average it out over all the years.

Lot of math. Well, we're going to say I'm Fury. Well, you're both wrong because all months have at least 28 days in them. There is this one particular stat. I mean, it was a good. I love the mathematical explanation behind it, but at a certain. I didn't notice there's going to be like task masks where I have to think off with box. Come on. I pretty much tuned you both out when you didn't give me the answer I was looking for. Waiting to the end. So it's fine for this one. What is a. What would you call a group of pandas?

Panduck, I'm calling you. I can go more than I want.

I can. I want to give you a quarter of a point. This is even close. But I would I A corral. I mean, you guys should both really know this one because it's an embarrassment. That's actually what a group of pandas is called. It's called an embarrassment. Wow.

So you insult us as well.

How brilliant is that? With the question I did like. Why did I agree to this? Why did you read what a leader you are? You should have read further down what a leader. Should have read further down the notes. All right, Question seven is going to be in Pac Man. In the Pac man video game. What is the name of the pink ghost?

Pinky.

Yeah, I think you're right, actually. I think it is Pinky. Is that your answer? Are you just agreeing with Dennis because he gave the right answer? Yeah, done it. Because I. I don't. We'll give you that. We'll give you that. That's correct. That is correct. That's good. That's okay. Now who Created the character. Since we talked about the show off a lot today. Who created the character? Sherlock Holmes.

Doyle.

Conan Doyle. Awesome. Yep. You're turning it around, right? Stir Arthur. Both, but you're turning it around. This is what I like about this. See, you started on a low point, but you're bringing it up. And I'm. I'm. I'm really happy about this.

So. So rephrasing that you broke us down and now you're rebuilding leadership.

That's leader leadership. That's leadership. I'm. I'm bringing you up. It's not my fault you stumbled off the block, but I'm bringing you guys up. So that's. It's good. So question nine. What can be broken but is never held my heart, my spirits. I'm thinking, well, that one. I'm going to give you both half points because that was really good. I didn't expect that. It's. It's a promise. It's a promise. That good as in, like, JavaScript premises or promise. Just the number of promise. Like, like, promise me that we'll be able to do this again. Because this was actually really fun. But. Okay, so final question now. You guys are. You're doing good. I mean, you almost have. I think you have an identical score here, which is really, you know, AJ Cheating on the notes. This kind of makes sense. But very last one. What has to be broken before you can use it?

I promise. No. My heart. An egg.

A glow stick. Dennis is going to get the point on that one and probably going to beat you out because it is an egg. An egg is something that has to be broken in order to use. It's not going to glow unless you crack it.

I mean, and this is true.

The judges were very specific at what they were looking for, and it was not that.

I didn't even hear the judges.

Multiple judges right here. You don't. I mean, they don't want to be on camera, but it's fine. You guys. I mean, you did not. You did not get a sailing score. I mean, we're not. You know, you're not getting a promotion anytime soon with this. But I'm really, really happy with how you guys turned it around at the end. It was a really good. I mean, I'm like, chef's kiss. It was. Was good. I like this. All right, well, what.

What was the end.

Final score? The final score for Dennis was. You got three, four, five. You got five. That was good. It's not really hard. It depends on what school you go to. Eastern. We Might gotten away with it. All right. And AJ got four, so. I mean, four times. I mean, it's like I've been before. It's okay. I don't mind.

I think the glow sticks. An extra credit point. I mean, that's thinking outside the box.

I will give you a quarter of a point for glow stick. So you got. We'll go into some really weird scoring possibilities here. So we'll give you a. We'll give you a point.

Donatello time.

Yeah. Which. 0.25. That's gonna get you at four and a quarter. Perfect for. It's. I like this. This was good. This is good. Smoke.

This makes me feel bad. I hate it.

The deal as the failure, I mean, isn't over. So why don't we. If there's anything you guys want to plug or if there's any place that people can find you and talk with you, if you like talking to people. I do. Why don't you go ahead and give a shout or people can find you. Yeah.

Go, aj.

I was gonna say go for it. Done it. But I mean, really, LinkedIn is probably the easiest place to get a hold of me or, you know, Google AJ Laporte and look for the emoji that is my face like this as the favicon, because I absolutely love that. So, yeah. Yeah, that's really all I got. Otherwise, if you see me on the street and you want to yell at me, I usually respond to like, hey, you, or things like that. That's fair. That was fair.

Imagine to get a hold of me, just contact AJ the other AJ though, the singer.

Yeah.

Oh, my God. Is that speaking? No, LinkedIn's always good. I think it's like LinkedIn.com DennisDSON or something like that. Something really?

LinkedIn is LinkedIn.com. yeah. You're welcome.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. We have some developer hugs coming up. I guess one on the 17th and one on the 24th. 24th is going to be CMS react. It's going to be cool.

And.

And the one. The 17th is we're. We just launched mobile chat SDK for. So you can put chat on your app, in your iPhone or Android apps, which is kind of cool. But yeah, become a. Develop a hug member because I've already loaded it up. We're going to have a ton of content over the next couple months.

Awesome. And where can people find. Well, I mean, depending on how the reviews go on this, you might be able to find me here again. I'm not quite sure, but if not, Meyer Low is a good place. You'll always find me there probably at the hours of happen to midnight. And LinkedIn is the third place. Probably better finding me on my LinkedIn. Yeah I think it's Nick J is important on LinkedIn other than that if you're a developer who's already in our developer Slack I'm also there as well. Connect.com should plug that as well on oh boy.

Hell make me feel bad like plugging all these things.

Well to be fair, he has a notes list. He's been. He was prepared. Leonardo. Leonardo. I'm just saying. But yeah those are some of the main places you can find me. And then hopefully more videos I'll be doing for the the the YouTube channel for the HubSpot developers. I owe Dennis a couple more videos. I and that that's great going and then yeah, hopefully. I mean I'm. I'm hoping this, I'm hoping we can continue to do this and do more of these and if you guys I would be more than happy and would be more then I would owe you guys big time if you continue to do this with me.

So I this has been a huge waste of my time and I refused every.

This is really catapulting my career. You got to start getting all the animation skills ready for Walt because it's over there.

You own the farm.

Well, with that thank you everybody for watching. I hope you made it through the video and see you again soon.