Episode 24 - Developers:After Dark with Jennifer Nixon

Welcome everyone to episode. What are we at 24 now of developers After Dark.

Yeah, we can almost rent a car. Yeah, we can almost rent a car. Yeah.

Yeah. 24 episodes thus far and you might notice a very large hole in the the group here. Nick is unavailable today due some issues, but fortunately the Laporte parents had a backup plan and they produced two laporte kids. So we have AJ Laporte here to help us out as well. Wow, my Internet is bad now too. Before we get started, I am going to run through Nick's bucket list or as he says, paying the bills. Of course, anytime you need to go to the backlog of anything that we've done before, you can always visit us at devs@darkpod.com that is your go to resource for all of our podcasts. Of course you can go to Spotify and YouTube. I do encourage that as well. But it's all there for you folks. And next up, yes, we do have a YouTube channel. This is, this is an important one because I run it and I feel like I want to give it a little bit of praise. We got good stuff coming from Brie. Come on there. Brooke is always producing stuff. I might be putting some stuff on there soon and yeah, that's going to be a great resource for you. But more importantly, oh my gosh, let me put it up here now. The developer.HubSpot.com changelog. If you're going to be looking at one thing, this is it. Because this is what either makes you or breaks you. And quite literally it could be the break if you don't pay attention to the changelog. So go there, you'll see what's going on, what's new, what is sunsetting, all that good stuff is there. Pay attention to that. And guess what, aj, I feel like you need to learn a few things. I usually do.

That's okay.

What I'm going to do. My friends, I want to point you over to Academy. HubSpot. This is your go to resource for all things HubSpot. I know Jennifer has probably accomplished 98.7% of the courses on the Academy, so she is well decorated, I'm sure. But this is your go to resource for all things you need to learn about Academy as well or HubSpot. Go look at that. And I, I just saw this up here and I just need to put it up because it just says Nick was wrong. So I want to just always highlight this Nick was wrong plug right here. Okay.

Okay.

I want to stop jabbering and I Want to bring on. If you don't know this person, I don't know where you have been living, because this is the epitome of the community. I will talk about her all day long, but I will allow her to talk about herself. Jennifer, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Awesome. Hi, everybody. I'm Jennifer Nixon, and I am now the developer community manager here at HubSpot. I've been an active member of the community for a few years now, so I don't know that everybody knows me. I'm still meeting new people every day. So it's an amazing community. And I'm really just so grateful to be in this spot now to where I can meet so many more of the community and help empower more developers through this role.

And I have to say, active is an understatement. Very big understatement, Jennifer. Like, you are just. You were just huge in the community with help. So.

Okay, active. Yeah, I mean, champion active. I got. I have a trophy, you see, back there.

So I am going to disconnect real quickly and let AJ take over because all I'm hearing is a metallic sound of robots trying to invade my house. So, aj, you talk. I'll be back.

Yeah, okay, that's fine. I don't mind talking.

This is fun. We get. I'm first. Nick doesn't show up, which, you know, I have this feeling he just doesn't like me because he's one person I have not met in all of my time in the community. So I think he has a way of avoiding me. Just joking.

It's really just me. I just put my hat the other way when I meet with people and just say, I'm Nick, and then I just flip it back the other way when it. When I'm going to meet with people as me. So, you know, it's okay.

Yeah, I guess. His AI bot is down today, so.

Yes, the AI version that we have of Nick is not available for the recording today.

Yeah. And now Dennis is bailing on it. So maybe. I don't know, maybe I'm just not very important at all. This. This probably shouldn't happen.

Oh, nonsense, nonsense.

I don't know what anybody out there really wants to know, but I'm sure that maybe there's something in this story that I've had that might be a little bit interesting, hopefully.

No, absolutely. You're a very interesting person. And so it's. Let's talk about your. Your basically intro into, like, how you got into, like, technology in general. Right? So a lot of what we do talk about on this podcast is, you know, the person themselves and like, how they became their journey into where they are now. And I mean, you, you've had a very big journey. If, if I'm not mistaken, you started in architecture.

That's correct. Yeah. So my journey is definitely different. My first, like, encounters with technology were around fourth grade. My parents, you know, bought the computer we had. You know, where in the world is Carmen Sandiego and Oregon Trail? If anybody, you know, is. Is quite from that time period and, you know, in school. And it's one of those things that I didn't really realize till I was kind of thinking about this part of my story. Like, what was my first interaction with technology? I just thought everybody started, started using a computer in fourth grade. I didn't realize that it was new, that desktop computers at home were this new and exciting thing. I remember going to this, like, military PX store with my mom and like, all the Microsoft, like the Windows boxes, they were like big boxes with flaps on the front and I'm like, what are all these boxes? And you would buy your computer. They were literally in these, like, big boxes in the aisle. And yeah, I mean, that's kind of like my first, you know, interaction with technology. But I just thought it was, you know, we didn't grow up with it from infancy like kids do today, but it seemed like the normal point. Like, I've kind of learned math, I've learned reading, and now I learned computers.

Yeah.

So just kind of got into it a little bit and I think I, I wasn't really sure. I did some web stuff, you know, like everybody did geocities. I, I learned how to code a. And I didn't know what I wanted to do, though. I didn't know what I wanted to go to school for, so I was undeclared. And then I actually, my first, you know, course degree specific class was computer science engineering. And that's what I thought I was going to do. And after the first class, I was like, no, they were talking about the abacus and the history and how we were going to go all the way back to like, C sharp and learn all. And I was like, I just, I kind of want to just like, learn what's happening now. Like, I don't want to know the whole history of computers and be able to code everything under the sun. So I kind of just like took a step back and when I did finally declare my major, it was architecture. And just, I think overall, whether it's technology or architecture. There's some like commonalities. You know, architecture requires like really high level thinking and then like very detail oriented execution. And the same thing is true with anything you code or any project. You know, you really need to understand the strategy, the high level and then you can get into like all the details. So that's kind of a tie I think. I didn't really come back around until I got into marketing and you know, it's, I don't know, a difficult story to kind of go into because you don't know how far back to go. Right. Like you don't know how much to share, like share it all, you know, even remotely relevant. But I, you know, I got my first job in architecture during the housing bubble. Like literally it had already burst. So I was just lucky to find a job. Wow. And it was already extremely difficult to get jobs in architecture and then just add that on top of it. So I made it about two years before that kind of impact came downstream. And yeah, it was web. Like I, I just made a portfolio. I tried to figure out like I am now in the middle of Texas, I'm not living in a big city, I don't know, you know, if I'm going to get back into architecture. And I had already been through this like really extensive journey to just get that job that I was like, what can I do? And there was a multimedia design job and so I built a website and luckily I don't know if it's luck or you know, just somebody seeing potential and a huge like thing that has happened to me in my career is somebody that I interviewed with, met or knew like they were able to see potential. It was never about you can do this 100%. It was always about I think you can do this and I think you have the skills and the capabilities and the ability to learn. So that's why academy and things like that are so important to me and continuing to learn and grow because I never want to do something I feel like I can do 100%. So I got into multimedia design. That led to marketing, Marketing led to HubSpot Rev ops And you know, that's like the most condensed version of getting here. Obviously the community played a huge part in my journey with HubSpot. And I mean I think I submitted one of the first ten ideas in the HubSpot community when it launched. So it's one of those things that I don't know. You, you see the opportunity to grow and to learn and to HubSpot has Always had this mindset or the, the ecosystem. I feel of like the information is there, the opportunity is there. Like if you take it, you can do a lot of cool things with it.

Yeah.

How did the community actually, how did you get into the community? What was your inspiration? Because you were extremely active and very, very pivotal to the influence and success of the community. How did you get to that?

Well, so the first time I joined the community, support sent me there. They were like, oh yeah, this isn't something we could do but add an idea and maybe we'll add it. So I kind of got addicted to adding ideas in the beginning, but kind of fast forward when I started using HubSpot in 2016 and that's when I got really into Academy, like had to onboard and implement. It was when your onboarding specialist kind of had the right blog was like the first thing. And I'm like, I can't publish a blog. Like we've never used this platform, we haven't done anything. And I still kind of joke with them about it because it forced me to learn a lot of it on my own and dive into, well, how am I going to configure this CRM? What do we really need to do and what do we need to get out of it? That led me into this internal. So I was doing B2C marketing and sales with HubSpot when it was really meant for B2B. And so when I left there, I really wanted to tackle that challenge. Like it's not just workarounds, like you can be successful. So I started freelancing with realtors, mortgage lenders, home builders, contractors. I. I've traded like paint my house and I'll build you a website, set you up in HubSpot. Like, you know, any opportunity I had to get somebody into this platform because there's so much potential beyond like the initial vision. Right beyond HubSpot's initial target audience. And so when I really went out on my own, that's when I got back into the community and I started to get involved and it was honestly like I had a lot of, you probably know Remington, Remington beg with Impulse Creative. Like he was our partner. So he developed a lot of the stuff I was using at the company I worked for. And it was like, I don't know, mind blowing what they could do with Hub DB and websites. And we had everything, like reviews, lenders, our team, everything was coming from Hub DB and dynamically creating page home listings communities. So I didn't feel like it was something I would be able to get to that level with. And I had a chat with him, like, how do I get to an agency? How do I get to be where you are, like where I'm not just doing HubSpot, like internally. And he was like, you need experience, like you need to work with clients. Like that's the biggest gap. You have the project management, you've got the technical skills, you just, you need some hands on experience. And I just got that from the community. I answered questions. I, you know, the biggest thing was not just looking at the question and saying, oh, here's an answer, but what's your use case? Tell me your industry. And I really started to dig in and started offering like help. Do you want to jump on a zoom? Do you want to like figure this? I don't know the answer, but we can figure it out together. And it was a much slower process to reach the, you know, ranks and to level up in the community because I wasn't really answering a large volume of questions. I was really trying to dig deep and get that experience. And then it just like blew up from there. And then, you know, paid work came in and agencies and all of that stuff. But it was just, I always call it a playground. It's the perfect place to go and learn. So if you think you know, something goes, test it out. If you, you know, you can go there and find a question and even if it's answered, you can try to build that in your demo account. Like there is, It's a gold mine for use cases and problems that need to be solved. And yeah, and everybody's like, well, how do I use this? Or what would I even use it for? Why would I need to do an app card? Or you know, there's all your use cases. Like you can go through there and find old solutions. Be like, yeah, you could do that, but now you can build a UIE and you can bring it directly, you know, into the deal record.

Yeah. I mean, it's also good for trends too, right? Like you can find what's trending on there and like see what people are asking. And then that helps inform you, like, hey, maybe we should start building for this kind of an audience. Or like we're seeing an uptick here. I think of it as like the holiday trend on marketplaces where all of a sudden like, hey, it's getting close to Christmas and everything is Christmas. Like, yeah, it helps identify like what is to come.

Yeah. And I think the other thing too that I learned from it and I was also freelancing for like a theme developer at the same time. So I was doing support there and support in the community and it was kind of like this back and forth, but it showed me, like I could see things bubbling up right? Like, oh, this CMS feature is down, or it's not acting the way it should. I've done this a hundred times now, like all of a sudden it's not working the way. Is this like a change? Is it supposed to be this way? Is something broken? And I started to really get good at diagnosing. Like, when is it something that can be fixed and when is it something that like, needs to get to support? And how do we do that and how do we escalate? But yeah, it's. I don't know there, the community, if, if you're not in it. Like, I, I don't know that I have a lot to plug on this, but if I had to recommend anything, if you are using HubSpot and you're not@community.HubSpot.com and you're not learning something, I don't care if you answer anything, ask a question, read a question. There's just so much knowledge there. And, you know, if you're building an automation, it's like the, I don't know, beautiful reference I'm waiting for. Yeah. For somebody to build like AI on top of it. Like, how can we query this?

I guarantee that'll happen. Did you, when you first started playing around with the community, did you have any fear of asking questions? Are you intimidated or do you like, jump right in and you're, you're okay with it?

No, I mean, for. I was, like I said, I was kind of in the community with the ideas forum first. So I knew Jenny a little bit and I knew some of the teams. So I kind of, you know, knew that it was a safe place and nobody knew me. Now I'm like, oh, see, Anonymous user 1729, don't go look it up. But yeah, I think everybody is there to learn. And if there's something that I think exists across the ecosystem, whether you're a partner, developer, app builder, it doesn't matter, what you are is like, it is probably one of the safest spaces to ask questions and to grow because everybody, like, grow better is a real thing. Everybody genuinely is there to be helpful and learn. And I feel that the handful of people I've met who are like, no, I don't want to talk to you, like, why are you asking me this? Or no, I can't tell you that secret or those uncollaborative people are really the ones that don't do well in this environment. Because I think the people who see that the pie is big enough for everybody and that we're only going to get better when we learn from each other, those are the people that do really well. And I think it's like 99.99995% of the ecosystem that kind of has that philosophy.

Yeah. Yeah. A long time ago I was talking with you and you kept on telling me that you were not a developer. Have you changed that position? Because I've been pushing and saying to you, I don't know, for years now. I feel that you are a developer. And how do you feel now?

I'm torn. I almost wore my HubSpot developer shirt for you. But I, I think in theory you are correct that I probably could say that I'm a developer. I think for me, you know, one, I've never had a formal job title that's developer. Right. I think there are a lot of people. I'm a front end developer, I'm a back end, I'm a full stack. I'm an engineer. I've never had those roles and you wouldn't want me to have one of those roles. But I think I've gone beyond the marketer plus of I know enough to be dangerous. Like I've now coded like a very, very small API, which I never thought that I would do, where I've created a CRM card even though it didn't really do a lot. I just, I know the basic function to get something like that started. So I guess, yes. But I think that's why this role or being the developer community manager is so important to me because it really extends beyond the term developer.

Right.

I love that the mentorship program is ecosystem mentorship because we have so many very talented people that are in. I mean they're doing things with Ops Hub Pro that you would think you'd need a developer for, but you don't. But they have the tenacity to get after it and to really figure out like how can I build this automation, how can I do this custom coded workflow action? And I, I think those are all very technical things and none of those people would call themselves a developer. And that's kind of why I like to keep the title off of myself because I think there are a lot of people that relate to my background and experience where we didn't come up through code. Code might be something we dabble in or it Might be something we don't do a lot of, but it doesn't make us any less a part of this community. And I think that's why maybe I draw the line there. I used to say devs that I've met just set the bar so high that I was like, no, no, that's not me. But I think it's becoming a broader term and how we define it.

I think so.

Yeah. I think it's definitely.

Sorry.

No, go ahead, Dennis. Good. I was just saying. I agree. Good. Oh, he's dropping it. I have to agree with you, though. I think the way that you said it, where, you know, like, everybody just helping each other and like, like the community definitely is something. And like, so being on this side of, you know, HubSpot, when you were in the community, it was very interesting watching your trajectory through the community because you kind of have the same pathway as both Dennis and I and as well as John McLaren. Like, we all came from the community and like, we kind of, as we progressed, we're like, yeah, you know, and then we moved over to HubSpot. So it's been very interesting. And I know, like, through our trajectories, we've talked about a lot of, like, the key milestones and, like, moments that, like, defined what we did as we came through. So what would you say, in your opinion, are, like, through your career trajectory so far? Like, what are some of those key moments for you that were very pivotal and, like, helped shape your career?

Yeah, you know, I think it's easy to see someone like myself. I'm very goal oriented. I'm very driven to. To think there's this big grand plan, and I really don't think there ever was. Like, I didn't think I'd end up at HubSpot. Like, that certainly was never written down. I never, you know, like, maybe it was in the back of my mind somewhere. But I think that the key milestones for me was I started with like, those 10 core certifications in academy, and I just kept a new one would come out and I was like, sure, I'll try it. Dennis said, I've probably done like 98. I think it's more like 85. I think they've had like 45 out of the 50 something plus that they have now because I recognize, like, I don't need to learn how to do a sales hub demo call. I don't need to. I wasn't setting out to get them to get them, but hitting 45 and then becoming an HCT and the CMS for developers. I finally took the limit off and said I don't have to code at the level of Power Pro. I can just make a theme and it can.