Finding Happiness in Times of Hopelessness
This is a YouTube video titled "Finding Happiness in Times of Hopelessness" featuring a deep and reflective conversation between George B. Thomas and Liz Morehead. Recorded in early 2025, the discussion explores the complex nature of happiness, its challenges in modern times, and personal experiences related to mental health, media consumption, and life purpose. The dialogue is part of their ongoing podcast series "Beyond Your Default," where they share life stories and insights to inspire listeners on their journey toward happiness and fulfillment. The conversation is candid, thoughtful, and covers both global and individual perspectives on happiness.
I think people are trying to manufacture happiness instead of just being happy. And my mind goes to this thought of removing all happiness obstacles. So instead of trying to manufacture happiness, it's how do I remove the obstacles that are actually in the way of my happiness so that I can just be happy? And then right about there, my brain took a real sharp, hard right turn. Because I also have to ask the question that hit my brain as soon as I had that thought of removing all of the happiness obstacles. Am I someone's happiness obstacle? And if so, then what? Like, and I'll be completely honest, I don't have a freaking answer for that. But I thought it would be important to share, like, where my brain went. If it is my job to remove happiness obstacle so that I can therefore be happy, am I a roadblock for somebody in my life? And what does that mean to them? And what does it mean to me?
Welcome back to Beyond. You'd default. I am Liz Morehead, your host, and as always, I am joined by the one and only George B. Thomas. How the heck are you?
I am doing great. It is a fabulous Monday morning. I had had a weekend that I did zero work. I spent spent time with my wife celebrating my 23rd anniversary, or our 23rd anniversary. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, she has put up with me for that long. She is a saint. But we had a great time. We were very happy enjoying each other and just being. And so I, I have, like, this new vigor. And I'm excited for this week and I'm refreshed. And I'm also very, very excited, Liz, to get into this conversation today.
Yeah, you and I are both coming back refreshed. I was in New York over the weekend. I got to see some friends who I actually hadn't seen since this time last year. And we all had this moment of, how the heck are you doing? I'm like, well, that's a loaded question, you know, but it was, it was so soul filling. It was so rejuvenating just to. I think you and I both, for the first time, actually stepped away, which is not something you and I are historically very not real good at. Now, are we going to talk about the fact that you slacked me a couple times this weekend? No, we're going to let that go. I thought it was.
I mean, it was like one time maybe.
I was so proud of you. I was so proud of you that it was only once or twice, like, genuinely proud.
I mean, it did have to do with AI in Search, but that is not why we Are here today.
This is not why we are here today. We are here to talk about happiness. Which is funny considering I'm in a really peppy mood this morning.
Nice.
Even though I thought I was going to have a heart attack, I've been up for we record this very early in the morning, by the way. What, 7:45 early?
Yes.
You get a frantic little voice memo at 7:00 clock going, hey buddy, been up since 5:30 driving to D.C. yeah. Have been having a heart attack for about 24 hours because I left my backpack with everything on the train.
Yeah.
Thank you. Air tags and technology.
Which by the way, I wasn't happy that you did that. But I was actually happy for the extra 15 minutes because I was still like knee deep into like prepping what I wanted to say and talk about for many of this question. So I was like, oh thank God, like another 15 minutes to like put a little bow on top of this.
And you know what was interesting too? So the way I drive in From Annapolis to D.C. i had the same thing. Like I had my heart in my chest. I was checking my find my iPhone to see that my MacBook had not moved from Union Station. It hadn't moved for many, many, many hours. But has it moved? Has it moved? Did someone take it now? But as I was driving in, I was watching the moon set over Washington D.C. it's not a full moon yet, but it's pretty darned close. And it was probably one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. And I'm so excited.
Happiness and chaos.
Exactly.
Is where my brain goes. Oh my God.
Yeah, I know. And I had this moment thinking about the conversation we were having this morning because I want to start by sharing a little bit of data because I'm a big fan of research. Liz, a year ago driving into the city is just in a full blown panic attack for an hour and a half. Even though all of the data and facts showed me that everything was going to be fine and I was going to be fine, I would struggle to just find happiness in any way, any sort of positivity. So I decided actually to look up a search term that I will admit to the listeners that I looked up at least 10 times last summer, which is how to just be happy. Like is there a project plan? Is there a Gantt chart? Is there a set of tabbed spreadsheets that I can implement as an independent self starter? I didn't find any. But what is interesting is how much that search term volume has doubled, tripled and quadrupled in the past five to six years. To be fair. Not terribly surprised by that. I don't think a lot of us are, given some of the global, quote unquote, unprecedented events we've all been experiencing. But as I started digging down the data rabbit hole, are we okay? Because in 2022, CNN reported new Gallup poll data that showed happiness among Americans had hit record lows. And then I thought maybe that was just like two years ago. That was still on the heels of the pandemic. There had been a lot of promise and disillusionment around vaccines and the world reopening, but just this past week. Data, by the way, we would not have had if we had originally done this podcast, by the way, when we had intended to.
Yeah.
Because it just came out like, I think I know, just Tuesday or Wednesday. Yes. It's funny, you and I, big believers in coincidences.
Yeah.
For the first time ever, the United States did not crack the top 20 happiest countries in the world. And again, why? A lot of reasons. In addition to what we're experiencing as individuals in our own lives. We've got global events, we've got long tail consequences still of the coronavirus pandemic, a lack of optimism about the future, increased polarization in politics. And this is also something I didn't even think of. But of course, this is where we ended up. There is a marked rise in loneliness, particularly among younger generations, because they have grown up in more remote education and work environments. One of the things I love about this show to set the tone for what we're about to talk about today is our willingness to explore the gray and acknowledge the realities of how challenging all aspects of living a life beyond your default really means. For example, in the past we've talked about the fact that, yes, it is a choice to embrace a victor mentality in your own life rather than giving into the easy and insidious comfort of feeling like life is happening to you. On the other hand, we've acknowledged previously multiple times that the growth mindset community has a massive problem with toxic positivity, where many of us are encouraged to dismiss or simply quote, rise above complex negative emotions when we are entitled to experience and process those emotions in a way that makes sense for us. So today we are talking about happiness. But you're not going to find any false platitudes or dismissive sentiments. Instead. George, are you ready to dive deep into beyond your default tool?
I'm ready to rock and roll, yeah.
All right, so let's dig in let's start talking about happiness. First question, did the data about Americans decreasing happiness surprise you?
I'll answer that. But Liz, I'd be remiss if I didn't kind of recap where my brain went with your intro piece. And that is that people are searching Google for an answer that Google can't give them. People are searching for an answer to a question that many times they can't give themselves or they wouldn't be searching it on Google. Now I'll get back to that. But my answer to you is it's, it's interesting where my brain went because my answer to you is no, this data did not surprise me. But the fact that the question we are asking is pointed to America's happiness actually surprised me. The research that we dove into you gave me a couple links, as you always do, felt very media focused and almost like it was political communication. And I'm very cautious of that when I see a Fox or a CNN or I would list them all out, by the way, because I'm not literally that I watch one or the other. But as I dove into this, I'm like, why is this news channel pages that we're looking at? And so that's where we might want to start to be honest or at least circle back around in this episode onto a little piece of that that I'm packing. But you see, the thing is, listeners, you need to know what you consider happiness. You have to know the scale in which to then measure that thing that you're actually calling happiness. But rest assured that happiness in this conversation around happiness as we move forward. Because by the way, Liz, you and I were talking before we hit record. I do not feel like this will be the only happiness conversation that we have on this podcast. But happiness is not an American thing. Happiness is a global thing. But at the same time, I have to point out that it's a very personal thing. So when I see things like the articles we dove into for our research phase of this episode, I have this uneasy feeling of them both being too broad of brushstrokes. Right. We're just trying to kind of paint over this thing. And listen, Liz, I think it's important for the people listening to this podcast to understand where this episode idea came from in the first place and why I'm so passionate about having it today. And honestly, for many days in the future, I feel like this is going to be a big portion of what we do in the future or talk about in the future. And so listen, I get a Opportunity or get the opportunity to hang out with. Well, it was men. Liz, by the way, I've been meaning to tell you this. My men's evolve leadership is actually turning to just evolve leadership and women are actually entering the group as well. So remind me after we're done recording this to let you know who you could talk to if it was something that you wanted to be part of.
I totally do.
But I'm sitting in one of the meetings, right, and they're bi monthly meetings, you know, once every other week on Tuesdays at 2 o'. Clock. And one of the men was sharing his life, struggle in the moment. And one of the men told him, you have to do what makes you happy. Now one of the crazy things I do is I pay attention to people's faces even in a virtual meeting. Like I am a huge nerd when it comes to micro expressions on people's faces. And everything in my course said that this cat who just heard you gotta do what makes you happy, that it was registering zero in his brain, in his cranium of what had just been said to him. And as the group started to move forward in the conversation, I said, hold up, hang on, hang on. And I paused and I asked the man, I said, what makes you happy? And Liz, there was this longer than life pregnant pause. And finally he said, I don't know. To which then I said, that's what you need to figure out first. Like you need to know what makes you happy. And then the other men started adding other thoughts and advice as we all kind of do. I sat there as that was happening and it got me thinking. Almost everyone wants to say, like, I just want to be happy. You even mentioned it in the intro. But they're chasing something that they don't know what it is. Are they chasing an untangible statement or are they really knowing what happiness is for them and taking the right steps to make it happen? And so many times I think we hear this and we think it and we just don't know. We like, we don't know. I don't think happiness is a broad brushstroke. I think that it's an intimate journey that you have to understand and be on. And let's look at the fact again that this is global, which I can't wait to dive into in the future. Not an American problem because sure, why we might not be in the top 20 dang gone kind of smacks me in the face. Not surprising though. I want us to know that it's global because I Think there's two things we as Americans can learn from these places. That are happier. I'm using air quotes, by the way. Or that are happy. We can learn from them and modify our lives as needed. Or at a bare minimum, start to understand what others are calling happiness. If we're in that camp of I don't know. So there's a whole thing. Did the stats, like, surprise me? No. Did I freakishly feel like we might be headed down the wrong direction for the conversation that was in my brain based on where this came from? Yeah. I was a little worried. Now, I don't think we'll go off the rails, but, like, I just want the listeners to know that when Liz and I sit here and we have this conversation, you know, Budapest, we see you. Australia, we see you, like Japan. We are trying to come at this at a individual, human, but global conversation of what the frick do we even mean when we say, I just want to be happy?
Do you know what my favorite thing to do is, George?
What?
Is to make you a little bit anxious with the little research grenades that I throw at you, as if I'm not intentionally trying to. You think you'd know by now we've been doing this for almost a year.
I don't know if my brain works that way.
We're just gonna.
Oh, yeah. It was like she just pulled the pin and, like, threw it over the fence. And I'm like, oh, my God.
I know. With a little cute slack message. Hey, we're all set for tomorrow.
Yeah. And I was like, are we?
We are. We are. 100%. Because the context that you just provided, I think is critically important for two reasons. One, this is a global conversation. And I loved the points you were making there about us learning from each other, not only from the countries that are happier, but maybe the ones who are also in the same boat. We are. I think that Sometimes there are two things that can happen. One, sensationalist headlines happening at news organizations that publish 24 hour sensationalist headlines. Right. There's that the data is sound, but does create this echo chamber of everything is terrible even if the data is sound. I think the other thing too, that we need to be aware of what you alluded to is that I think sometimes there is this idea of American exceptionalism where we forget that we are a part of a global community. I think sometimes that is very easy to forget. I saw something on, I'll admit TikTok, but it was something that was fascinating. A European was visiting family, extended family that they had in the United States and they made a TikTok for other people in Europe to say, hey, I have a better understanding about why Americans don't leave America often when they go on vacation. Apparently this is something that other countries around the world think is strange. They said you have no concept of how big the United States is. I can in 45 minutes be in Germany, Switzerland, Spain, France, Scotland, Ireland, all of these different cultures and countries. And in 45 minutes you can still be in the same state and hours away from ever escaping said state.
Yeah, I drove for three and a half hours and was still in North Carolina this weekend.
Yeah, and I think that's something we forget as Americans is that we live in a country that is geographically huge and isolated, which can make us not lose perspective of the fact that this is a global conversation, which is why I kept digging for data. Happiness is not an American specific discussion. Now, George, I want to look to you specifically for a moment, however. Have you ever struggled with happiness in your own life for whatever reason? And do you consider yourself happy now?
I mean, that's like asking me if I breathe. Do you breathe? Yep, sure do. Like, I struggle with this all the time because probably multiple reasons, but I'll say one, I'm a human and two, because I lose sight of the target. But. But historically I didn't even have a target right, Which I think is why I tied so much into what this person in the meeting when he said, I don't know, I was like, woo, brother, been there, done that. Here's the thing, by not having a target and by forgetting my target because I am human, the worst thing is that I let the world take me for a ride. I was swept away by what my family said happiness was, from what my friends said happiness was by what the media said happiness was. I felt like I was splashed like in this washing machine of life. But I was never really clearly clean or understanding of what happiness meant for me. It was not happiness designed by me, but I will say one of the biggest decisions that I made in my life that took me from, listen, I'll use the words very unhappy to a place where I could start to build a framework and understanding for my personal life. Happiness was actually one really for me. It was easy, but it was one big decision. I stopped watching the news. And trust me, listeners, when I tell you this was a choice for happiness, not a choice for ignorance, because there's a big difference there. But listeners, I would challenge you to search news and personal health or is the news Healthy for me. And take a journey to see if this is something you may choose to do to help your happiness journey. Because when you are fed, unless you kind of leaned into these, like, these stories in this echo chamber, in this reason for ratings, and every night and every morning and on your drive, you're feeding this into yourself. You know, my grandpa, my dad, many people you've heard, garbage in, garbage out. It is the news for you, the garbage that is coming in that you should figure out how you're actually letting it come in. Why might watching the news be unhealthy? This is not the episode that we're having, but increased stress and anxiety from exposure to negative news. By the way, one of the things my wife and I said probably about 20 years ago is I wish we had the money to create the happy news channel where all it was was 24 hours a day happy news that you could tune into. Of all the good stuff that was happening in the world, why might watching the news be unhealthy for you and causing a block in your happiness? Negative impact on mental health, contributing to depression. Like, do you deal with depression? You know how many people on the planet deal with depression? Even physical health effects like heart problems, sleep disturbances due to the chronic stress and the chronic worry. I have a friend who is a worry wart. I mean, one of the biggest worry warts on the planet. And I'm like, brother, could you just do me a favor and quit watching the news? And he did for a week. I said, just one week. Like, let's make it simple. One week is easy. And at the end of the week, I asked him, how do you feel? He's like, dude, I feel so much better. I'm like, okay, now what? He's like, I'm going to watch the news. I'm like, no, come on. Like, what are you doing? We see this stuff and we get desensitized and it just becomes, well, that's the norm. And is it. It's. I don't know if it's the norm, but man, it is sure is created like it's the norm and it's this sensationalization of like these things that are happening. And again, I'm not saying that we should be ignorant. We should just be very careful in the way and the amounts that we allow this to come into our life if we are on this journey of happiness. Because it's real. It's. It's real hard to be happy when you're faced with information overload that causes fatigue, that causes A reduced attention span and creates, Liz, as you said, this echo chamber and this polarization from the type of news that you might consuming versus what your friends, family and coworkers might be consuming. And now all of a sudden, we're on opposite sides. Like, I've literally seen people's behaviors change. COVID 19 from what we were being told to what then became our reality. And everybody believed that it had to be this thing, but did it? I mean, I watched social media during COVID and people were talking about the freshman 15. I lost 79 pounds during COVID I saw people talking on social media about how they felt trapped in their home. I had the pleasure to go out and walk for three hours a day or go over to our friend's house that they had a pool, because I refused to believe that my life had to be structured in a way that a news story and the reality of the globe was being told that we had. Okay, all right, so I'm going to stop. I'm going to go off my soap. But on this topic, Liz, because we are here to talk about happiness. But for me, that was a big piece of, like, unlocking all of the stress and anxiety and like, stuff that I. I just, like, I gotta. I just can't do this anymore. And I would ask the listeners, like, what part does that play in your life or blocking your life of what it is that you're looking for that is happiness?
You know, I have a couple of thoughts about this, a few in response to what you just shared.
Yeah.
And then just my own relationship with happiness as well. I don't disagree with you, but I am, yes, ending a little bit here because this is something I have always struggled with somewhat. I will admit part of it has to do with my upbringing. I'm a Washington, D.C. native. Yes, we exist. No, we're not all terrible. Everything's fine. Okay. I have been very blessed in my life, as have you to know in related to the earlier part of our conversation, that sometimes we can all get trapped in our own echo chambers and there's this American exceptionalism ideal without a lot of acknowledgment for other perspectives or other ways of life. And I know that I have friends in my life right now where they consider it a privilege to. To be able to step away from the news because what is happening in the world is something that is impacting their daily lives. What I do agree with, however, is that there is this idea of you are what you consume, and we need to be mindful of the Fact that many of these news organizations, in fact most of them, with very few exceptions, are for profit organizations that are ruled by advertisers. It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum we're talking about. It does not matter. They are 24, seven media conglomerates that are looking for your eyeballs in an increasingly competitive attention economy. So while I have not taken a step back from the news entirely because for me personally, I believe an informed electorate is an empowered electorate. And I know you do the same. You still consume news in your way, and I have done the same. And I had similar reactions to it. I will tell you the thing that actually caused me to step back from the news and re evaluate my relationship with the news and my mental health was something that I don't think you and I have ever talked about this.
Oh, boy.
Five of my friends were killed in the Capitol Gazette newsroom shooting in Annapolis. And I don't want anybody to make any assumptions about what my politics are. But let's just say, you know, we know that shootings are an epidemic in this country. And I had partaken in online discourse and in an advocacy kind of way. And then I. It happened while I was in Connecticut and I, at the time, I was a writer for the Capitol Gazette. I had to turn off my phone because the news organizations were finding me online and trying to contact me through my direct messages to see if I was there. The day after the shooting when the whole town shut down and we had a quiet candlelight, vigilant, everyone was silent, but the only thing you could hear were news helicopters overhead. And then the sad part was, is that we were watching on the news, all of these people debate a topic. Something I still to this day feel very passionate about at a time that was not appropriate. And it made me realize, like, they really didn't care about us. They didn't care about what we were going through. By the way, when I shared this story, I want to be very clear. You know, it was my editor and a mentor I lost. But there is a lot of pain and suffering to this day that still exists in this community because of it. And that really changed kind of my relationship with the news forever. Because we were a product, our town was a product. And I never quite got over. I will never forget that smell of all the candles burning and the feel of the breeze on my face and how silent it was except for the crying and the helicopters.
Yeah.
So there. There is a privilege of being able to step away from the news. But I think it is also critically important for you. To your point, George, I think this is a healthy tangent to take because the news has such dramatic impact on how we perceive and think about happiness and think about the world around us. So what we consume is who we become, whether that's news, whether that's relationships, whether that's people. Now, in terms of my own relationship with happiness, this is something I've struggled with quite a bit in my life. I spent years thinking happiness was things, happiness was life looking a specific way, having certain types of clothes, relationships, stuff like that. And. And then that's why I had to blow up my entire life. Last year I'm like, oh, I built a prison, not a castle. And so last year I went through this whole evolution of I can't even make big decisions for myself because I don't even know why I'm making these decisions in the first place. To your friend's point, similarly, I don't know what happiness is. And so what's interesting is I look back on this past year, I realized it's not only been a discovery of self, but it's been a discovery of what actually lights me up. And there's this incredible musician named Hosier, he's Irish. He emerges from his cave once every three years to just create heart wrenching music that just like rips your heart out and throws it on the floor. And he's like, I'll be back in three years to do it all over again. He did this incredible album last year called oh gosh, I can't Remember, doesn't matter. The whole concept album is it mirrors Dante's Inferno and his journey from heaven into purgatory, into whatchamacallit, into hell and then back out again. And the. There's the last song in the album, it's called First Light. And this is what I love about this. And this is where I really come to my relationship with happiness. Now, the idea of First Light is that when you experience light but then walk through hell and then reemerge into the light again, it is up to you to define what your relationship now is with the light. Because when you go through long periods of darkness, light can feel traumatic. And at some point you have to realize though, that the war is over and you are a soldier hiding in a foxhole on an abandoned battlefield and the skies are blue above you. What is your relationship now going to be with the light? Yeah, I find that fascinating.
It's fascinating. Which, by the way, I think the album you're talking about is unreal Unearthed.
Thank you. Thank you. I knew it was like unearthed on something. It's so incredible.
Oh, it's interesting because it literally says Hozier wrote the album during the COVID 19 pandemic and stated it was his way of making sense of the experience of the last two years. It was inspired by Dante's Inferno, which he began reading at the time.
Yep.
Yeah.
And a bunch of the songs, some of them go through, like the Seven Deadly Sins. I'll send you this song, George, and I'll include it in the show notes.
Yeah.
But when I heard it, it was like the first time I had felt a real feeling in a really long time.
It's so interesting. I want to circle back though, because when you asked me that question, by the way, and I don't know if you meant to or it just kind of happened, but you asked me two questions.
I did.
You're like, and do you consider yourself happy now? You just tag that on to the end.
Why not?
I think I'll try to answer both of these, but I did a really piss poor job of answering the second question because I was just so in depth in like the first question is stop watching the news. But sort of, kind of in a way. But we've covered that. So, like, it's funny, Liz, because the question like, do you consider yourself happy? Now I'm going to give you a real honest answer to that. On most given days, the answer is yes. But not every single day. Because sometimes I feel like happiness can feel like a moving target or maybe a better way that I put that. On other days I may just take my eyes off of it for a bit on purpose or maybe not. But I want to break down the fact that 80% of what we have been doing here on this podcast, when I started to think about it, 80% of what we've been doing here has possibly been breaking down my journey to happiness through the lessons that I've learned along the way. Understanding my starting lines don't dictate my finish line. That truth makes me happy, by the way. Episode two, not carrying a metric butt ton of historical baggage with me along the way makes me feel lighter and happier. Episode three, Realizing that I'm only human and I need to be kind to myself. Guess what? Easier and happier. Episode 5 Being a Blessing bomber in others lives. Mega happiness. Like mega mega happiness. Episode 6 Redefining hustle and leaning into healthy hustle. Episode 8 who man happiness. Like in balance and the power over fear. Leveraging forgiveness and choosing the words to use to shape our destiny. Episode 11, 12, 14 and 15 Listen, I could keep going, but at the end of the day, in my mind, a journey beyond your default. This is also a journey to unimagined happiness. So am I happy most days? Have I been aggressively working hard for the last 20 years to be happier? Without a doubt. Liz, what are your thoughts on that?
You always have to turn it back around on me, don't you, buddy?
Hey, that's the only, that's the only like tool I have is like, let me go and throw it back in her corner for a second.
Well, I mean, it's only fair considering I just like again, lobbed that grenade. Have you ever struggled with happiness? And also. Yeah. Do you consider yourself happy? And what is the meaning of life?
You know, just true, right? Little questions, tiny ones.
You know, as you were painting that picture, I think it makes a lot of sense because when I was thinking about the journey that we've been on so far, because for those who are longtime listeners, first time callers, you may remember what was about 10, 15 episodes ago, we did a check in, work in progress. Like we are very much on this journey ourselves and we have another one of those check ins coming up again. Yes, we do, in a couple of weeks. But what, what is fascinating about it is that we started off on this journey not quite clear of what that finish line was going to be or if there even is one. And I think that's what a lot of this journey is about, is a willingness to set off toward a destination that you don't necessarily know what it looks like, whether it's purpose, happiness, fulfillment, meaning something else. You know, we have a diverse global community which has always been exciting to see in the numbers of where people are downloading this podcast from. It's not something I beyond my wildest dreams. It makes me so happy. And at the same time, one of the threads that hold us together, no matter how different we are, is that we all woke up one day and said, you know, maybe on paper, maybe the facts, quote unquote, are telling me I should just be happy, I should just stay in my lane. I can never rise above the system. The man, the whatever, is telling me that this is the box I'm going to live in. And we've just decided, no, no, absolutely not. You know, as dark as things got for me last year as well, you know, I joked with you, I'm like, I'm really glad we have this recording at 7:45 on Mondays because I would still be a potato in bed, crying if we didn't have it. But even then, still getting up, still having the conversations. And I think that's what makes this conversation about happiness in particular so important. You know, we're going to be digging more in depth here into definitions, which is something we love on this show because we've already started to tip. You know, I don't want to give too much away, George. I want to start this definitions conversation by having you talk to us a little bit about what happiness means to you now and whether or not that's changed over time. Because there's a lot of moving goal posts here in this conversation.
Yeah, without a doubt. Which, by the way, you made me curious because I ran over to our podcast analytics when you're saying that the countries we're officially up to, 33 different countries that are actually listening to the podcast at this.
You're kidding me.
No, no. Yeah, it's. I just literally looked at it. 33 countries have tuned in and listened to beyond your default, which is super exciting. And again, proves the point that many of the conversations we're having, and especially this one today, these are global conversations. These are just human conversations. And it's funny because, Liz, when you said earlier in the podcast we were a product, we weren't people. When we set out to create this, you even said we didn't really know the finish line. Heck, we didn't even know how the pieces were going to fit together. But we knew that when we started it, it wasn't a product, it was something we are going to create that was for the people. And we were creating it because it was also for us. And I think there's this magical thing, like, will we eventually do something that we might be able to monetize or be able to help the people with? Like, sure, maybe. But that wasn't the root of this thing. Like, the root was like, how do we fundamentally create something that helps humans be better, humans be happy, helpful, humble humans? So what does it mean to me, this conversation around happiness? And it's funny because I think it is a funny question that I'd almost like to spin back to the listeners, much like I have the tool to be able to throw it back in your corner. I kind of want to throw this one back into the listener's corner for a second, because as I sit and listen to this conversation, as they sit and listen to this conversation, I want to have a notebook and a pen and a pencil and be jotting notes down. The good thing is I can go back and listen to the recording and do just that. But grab a notepad, a pen, a pencil, an iPad, whatever. And I want you to try to answer two questions, like right now and what I'm. I'm going to give you the questions and I actually want you to pause the episode, answer the two questions, and then try hitting the play button to see what happens next. But question number one is I want you to just answer the question what is happiness? What is it? Just answer that in your words. Then I want you to answer it a secondary way. What is happiness to me? Because see, there are two different questions. There is what is generally happiness and what is happiness to or for me. So pause the episode, answer those two questions, and then come back once you've answered them and hit play. So what is happiness in general? That's kind of where I want to start because I made myself kind of answered these two questions to be able to answer this portion because of the understanding, like the fundamentally probably two things. Happiness for most people, by the way, is feeling good. And this could range from being okay to like really joyful. It usually happens when we have good relationships, do things that matter to us and reach our goals. Even though what makes people happy can be different for everyone. By the way, this is why I lean into this. It's an individual sport individual. Feeling positive, satisfied with life, and having a reason to get up in the morning are key parts of being happy. Now if we break that down for a second, feeling good or joyful, good relationships, FYI, with others and yourself. Episode 9 and 10, reaching your goals. By the way, Liz, we probably need to have a goals episode because I don't think we've actually talked about what we. I mean, they've been inside of the conversation, but not an actual like goals oriented episode. Feeling positive, satisfied with life, and having a reason to get up in the morning. Gee, I don't know about you, but that sounds like purpose to me. Which by the way, we could probably unpack purpose on a whole episode moving forward as well. So that just those ideas, like if you break those down and list those out, that almost gives you a little bit of a framework to start to work with, right? If you think about it like if I what feeling good and joyful, what does that. What are the good relationships that I have in my life? What goals have I set that I'm actually being able to achieve and get towards? Am I satisfied with life or am I stuck in a dead end job? Should I be dating her or him? Or is something different better why do I get up in the morning? What is my why? And what is, as my friend Mick Hunt says, what is my because? What's my purpose? Again, there's a little bit of a framework that you can start to apply to that question and to your life. Now, for me, and this is going to get a little weird maybe, but for me, it's 70 to 80% servanthood and 20 to 30% selfishness. I'm just going to let that kind of sink in for a second. It's 70 to 80% servanthood and 20 to 30% selfishness, but it's 100%. 100 of this happiness is designed and deployed for the purpose I feel like, or purposes. I feel like I've been put on before the show is that one of the nerdy things that I've been doing is putting every episode into a GPT. Because, yes, I'm a nerd and yes, I'm embracing AI and technology.
We love that about you, never change.
But I put all of the episodes that we have done, and I was curious if what I believe to be true and what we were creating and putting out to the world would match. And amazingly, I was like, oh, my gosh. So here's the thing. When I say the 80% servanthood, my purposes in life, if you will, growing and getting better. I believe in pushing myself. I believe in pushing you, the listeners, to be the best I can be. To be the best you can be, both personally and professionally. I teach about being positive, staying mindful, bouncing back from tough times and setting clear personal limits to help people grow. Because that's the shit that I've had to go through in life. That's the things that I've had to deploy. Those are the lessons that I've had to learn. I'm all about sharing and helping. The baseline of this podcast is we use my Life Stories and Liz's Life Stories to inspire you, the listeners. We talk about struggles and how we overcame them or how we're trying to overcome them in the. In the moment. I try to offer guidance and support along the way. It's all about learning something and then teaching that thing. I love to teach in a way that's easy for humans to understand. I want to give you, the listeners, the tools and knowledge that you need to improve your life again, a journey beyond your default. And a byproduct of this, by the way, in my professional life and in my personal life, it ends up leading into creating community. And I think that it's important to build a Place where people feel supported and connected, where people feel like they're seen. And I want everybody to feel like they belong and can grow together. And this one just cut me to the core because I was like, oh my God, like, wow. I believe in being true to yourself. I, I've tried to encourage myself. Liz has encouraged me on this one. When are you going to show up as a whole ass human? But we try to encourage people to be genuine and true to themselves. We believe that understanding and accepting who you are is key. I must say that again, for the people in the back row, understanding and accepting who you are is key to a happy and fulfilling life. So, Liz, that's kind of like the general and then me specifically. And it's funny because I felt like when I said that 80% servanthood, 20% selfish, that somebody might go, well, what's the selfish side?
I made a face. That person was me. Hi.
Yeah, but it's because I had to tie into something that you kind of punched me in the throat about. When we're on another episode where we were talking about self care and I leaned in, I said, oh, well, I kind of have to be selfish with my time to go on my walks, or my time to meditate or my time to do devotions. Because if I'm not selfish in the positive things that I need to put in my life, then life will steal the time that I should be implementing those in. And if I want to serve other people and I want to help other people be happy, and then I have to take those times to do the things that make me happy, make me feel loved, make me feel whole. And so there is this little bit of thing that's playing around in my brain of like, there is a positive selfishness that we may have to have this little bucket that we keep making sure that we're filling. So that's the 80, 20 or 70, 30. Servanthood and selfishness. What about you, Liz?
Jesus, George, happiness is a very good snack.
There you go. Good God.
No, I was sitting here thinking about it because I'm sure you saw me pick up my pen. As soon as you're like, we have homework. There are two questions, you know, what is happiness? And what is happiness? To me, I'll be perfectly honest, it's something I'm still figuring out. You know, I spent what, 40, 41 years programming myself into a life hole with completely warped senses of what happiness actually meant, what success actually looked like. A lot of that rooted in the fact that I had been programmed to believe and then allowed myself to believe and seek evidence of that. The people around me were expecting me to fail and waiting for me to fail. And it was only just recently, if we want to be super honest, probably only in the past two to three months, I've realized, oh, actually, the community I've built, the people who are in my life now, and that includes you, they're actually waiting for me to succeed because they know I can succeed and they're rooting for me to succeed. I know you've been waiting for me to figure that one out.
Yes.
So that's been the deeper journey I've been on. But when I think about what happiness is, I'm actually really content not to have definitions, which is kind of funny, considering I'm a word nerd, because I think my overemphasis on having the spreadsheet, the Gantt chart, the thing you were talking about earlier. Right. We're going to Google to ask it a question it cannot answer.
Yep.
And it's our obsession with having control. It's our obsession with knowing every nook and cranny of something. So I've just been allowing life to kind of surprise me. And over this past weekend, somebody asked me, what is the best version of your life look like? What does it look like? And I couldn't give a lot of specifics, but there were two words that came to mind. I said, I want to be able to breathe, and I want to be able to actually belong. And other than that, for right now, that's good enough. And I'm just allowing myself to find happiness in watching the moon rise over the Washington, D.C. skyline as I'm frantically driving my Jeep to Union Station to retrieve my backpack that I left on an Amtrak train yesterday. Or those moments when I share jokes over coffee at the local coffee shop that I can now walk to. The fact that I now. My. The hallway outside of my room here is filled with art because I live next to an artist, and every day there's something new and, like, wild and weird that he's painted and created that I just get to look at.
There is extreme power in finding joy in life. Surprises like this, this ability to. And again, less control, more flow, more water, less wall. But then to be able to find joy in what once was maybe life's chaos. But when chaos becomes surprises, it's beautiful.
Now, I already know that your answer to the next question, because we've already started talking about this a bit. Do you think there is a universal definition for happiness?
Well, I don't Think that there's a universal definition for happiness? Yeah. No, I'm just gonna say no. Yeah, I. I mean, I'm trying to, like, what? How could I extrapolate this? No, Like, I think it's different for everyone, and I believe that everyone needs to take the time to figure out what their happiness roadmap is. Liz, it's interesting because with this question, by the way, it was almost like she trying to set me up. What the. What is going on? Like, you never know what question? Yeah, I never do know, actually. But with this question, like, you put this. Here's an interesting quote, and I'm like, okay, why is there a quote with a question again, do I think there's a universal definition for happiness? No. Then I look at this interesting quote that says you will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of. You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life. And it's Albert Camus. I believe I said that last name. Right.
It's Camus.
I don't remember Camus. Chemist, potato, potato, whichever, whatever. But the idea is, the quote is what is important. But it's funny because I think there's a lot of just being instead of doing or creating happiness. And that's the thing, right? I think, like, people are trying to manufacture happiness instead of just being happy. And my mind goes to this thought of removing all happiness obstacles. So instead of trying to manufacture happiness, it's how do I remove the obstacles that are actually in the way of my happiness so that I can just be happy? And then, Liz, right about there, my brain took a real sharp, hard right turn. Because I also have to ask the question that hit my brain as soon as I had that thought of removing all of the happiness obstacles. Am I someone's happiness obstacle? And if so, then what? Like, and I'll be completely honest, I don't have a freaking answer for that. But I thought it would be important to share, like, where my brain went. If it is my job to remove happiness obstacles so that I can therefore be happy, am I a roadblock for somebody in my life, and what does that mean to them and what does it mean to me? Maybe that's a question we should ask ourselves more throughout life. But I'm literally sharing with you, the listeners, and you, Liz, that my brain asked the question that I do not yet have an answer for. But my gut, my heart, my soul tells me that it is a real important question to focus on, one I.
Will acknowledge and accept. And thank you for the Distinguished honor of basically calling me an emotional terrorist. When I take questions. I'd like to thank all the little people I've stomped on to get to this moment in time. Wasn't my intent to lead you there. I like to set you up for things, basically. I just like to set the conditions to break your brain because that's when the good stuff comes out. Yeah, like that. That is a fascinating question because it takes me back to last week. I am currently going through an experience where, you know, when you live a life where you are picking things and doing things because you think it's going to make you happy and you're much more superficially motivated, you don't spend a lot of time thinking about potentially how your actions impact others. I've always tried to live a life where, you know, I'm a good person. But push came to shove for most of my life. Once I got into any sort of fear, fight, or flight mode, it was Liz first and nobody else. I'm currently going through an experience right now where I am experiencing unhappiness that I can now see an echo of. This is an experience of unhappiness I have created for somebody else. Am I loving the experience I'm going through right now? No, don't love it. Can hold someone else accountable. But I can also be grateful for the lesson, the mirror that's being held up to past behaviors that makes me mindful going forward of what is the role I play in other people's lives in terms of their happiness. You know, I can't fix every past mistake. We're all only human, but we can be mindful about how we carry ourselves going forward. And I think that's a really holistic view of happiness because we tend to think the world is, like, out to get us. I catch myself on the edge of being judgmental and unfair to other people I haven't met. When I'm not thinking about what is the day that they're having, why are they feeling this way? What is the stuff that they're bringing to the table? Like, we get in these bubbles where it's just like there's that book, the four agreements, Right? And one of the four agreements is assume positive intent. We walk out in this world assuming the worst intent about so many things and so many people at all times in some cases. Are we correct? Yes. Because sometimes there are douchebags, which is why George has to have his no douchebags allowed. If there were no douchebags, the policy would not need to exist. But my Point stands that, like, we need to take accountability for the fact that the story of our happiness is not just our own happiness. It is the part that we play in the other people's stories of happiness. I think that's critically important.
Yes.
So question for you. What do you think most people get wrong about what happiness means? I know we've talked about this a lot already, but I'd be curious if there's any other stone that you left unturned here.
Yeah, actually Liz, there's like six things that I want to quickly cover here.
You literally have a list, don't you?
Yeah.
You take advantage when I don't ask one thing. You're like, I will give you 17.
Yeah. And then when you do say the one thing, I'm like, I feel paralyzed, but I want to cover six things. And then, by the way, just give you warning. Then I'd love to have your thoughts too. Oh, good.
Fantastic. Thanks, buddy.
What are people getting wrong? First of all, happy does not need perfection. Thinking everything must be perfect to be happy can make you unhappy. By the way, true joy often comes from loving life's imperfections. Those little surprises that we just talked about. And finding happiness even when things aren't perfect. The setting moon over the Washington skyline. Right. The chaos that is unexpected. Things that you feel like is a hurdle, but it's actually pausing you in life so that when you do pass it's safety. Happiness is more than just, by the way, feeling good. Happiness isn't just about laughing or having fun. It's all about feeling satisfied with your life, achieving your goals and feeling proud of what the heck you've even done, what you've been able to achieve. Happiness includes dealing with stress. By the way, happiness does not mean a stress free life. Believing that you must be stress free to be happy is not truth. Facing challenges and overcoming them can actually make you feel more fulfilled and happy. Because what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Happiness isn't a straight line, by the way. Many things in life that we think are a straight line are not a straight line. But happiness is definitely not a straight line. Don't expect to always feel happier and happier and happier. I've alluded to this. I've seen flat out said it in this podcast, like sometimes I just lose sight of it. Happiness goes up and down and it's normal to have good days, it's normal to have bad days. And you shouldn't be beating yourself up over some of those bad days. Happiness, by the way, is not just about success. Chasing success won't always make you happy. By the way, one of the things that I did probably about three to four years ago is I quit chasing success and I started chasing significance. It's okay, dramatically different race, by the way, but happiness isn't just success. Like real happiness comes from within, not just from winning awards or earning more money Americans. By the way, if you go into some of the data and stats that Liz does actually share in the show notes, you'll see how your perceived happiness actually has to deal with your paycheck in your wallet. That's all I'm going to say about that one. Happiness takes time, ladies and gentlemen. You can't buy happiness or get it instantly. It comes from living a life that's meaningful to you, growing as a person and enjoying the journey. Liz, what are your thoughts on those things?
Mine is pretty simple. A lot of things in life are a choice and we've talked in many episodes about choices that we make. Choice to be a victor, the choice to pursue growth, the choice to do a lot of things. And there's always a fine line in those conversations, right? There's always that toxic slant that growth mindset communities can take it. Just be a victor. It doesn't matter if you are, you know, the victim of true crimes. It doesn't matter. No, no, no, no, no. What I will say that I find very frustrating. And again, I'm just going to point to our toxic positivity episode. Certain aspects of how you think about happiness and define happiness are choices. Certain aspects of your personal happiness will come down to choices. But anybody who looks at you when you are having a tough time or actually experience something and says, your happiness is a choice, no, it isn't. It is not something we do a good job of already, of being mindful of is I'm a big proponent, proponent of therapy. I'm a big proponent of acknowledging if you have childhood traumas or traumas you've experienced about your life, honoring those experiences, often with the help of a licensed and credentialed professional. Happiness isn't a light switch. There is a relationship that you, I think a lot of times think about your relationship with happiness as a literal relationship where you need to go to couples counseling, get back on the same terms, make sure you're wanting the same things. How are you defining happiness? What is your relationship with happiness? What does it look like? Like, I have basically been rehabilitating my relationship with happiness for over a year and I'm still unwilling to define it for myself because I'M still relearning what that means. So anybody who walks up to you and says that growth, mindset, pardon my French. Happiness is just a choice. Buck up, kid. You can choose to be positive, send them my way, and then send them your therapy bills. Also, it is a choice for me to have you pay for my therapy. Then, if happiness is such a frequent choice. So that's my one thing. That is my feeling about it, because I think we. We are autonomous creatures, and we do have choices when it comes to mindset. But this idea that happiness is just like, oh, it's a thing. We just happy. We could just choose to look at the entire world differently. No, no, don't buy it. Not a fan. You're making a face.
No, I'm down. I'm down with what you're throwing out here. I like it.
So in your perspective, George, what ways can folks still honor their feelings about the world or what is happening in their own lives, but also explore and find new ways to create happiness for themselves?
Yeah, I'm going to keep this one real simple. First of all, in the question, honoring your feelings, do me a favor and quit shoving them in the little black box that you shove them in so that you don't actually give them room to breathe. Don't, like, look at the lessons that you could learn from them and realize that they're your truth. I want to swear so bad at that point, but I'm.
I already did it. If you want to do it.
Yeah, no, I'm not going to. I'm just. I'm just freaking. Look at them, like, start to understand them. Unpack them. Anyway, quit trying to hide your feelings, because it just ends up in a really bad place. So the next part in this question is, like, how can they explore or find ways to be happy or even. It says, create happiness in their own lives. So first of all, let's talk about find ways. Well, the easiest way to find something is actually be looking for it. Are you looking for happiness again? It goes back to. Do you even know what that is? Let's just say this. If you were going on a trip, you would need a map. You would need gps. Do you have a map and GPS for your happiness? Where it lies? Is it a X on a treasure map that you haven't even found the map for yet? So you have to actively be finding it. Now, here's the thing that I get a little ishy about. I don't know if it is something you can manufacture or create. Can you create the things around you that enable it? Yes. Can you create the things around you that actually hinder it? Yes. So my thing is on this question list, I'm just going to say unpack your feelings and give them room to breathe and have your GPS or your treasure map ready because you know where the buried treasure, AKA your happiness factors, actually live in your life. Life.
How do you work through your own moments of hopelessness?
Yeah, I hate this question.
I know.
I've been waiting for this question. The entire thing. I'm like, I don't have hopelessness. I don't know why we're asking this question. I mean, I might have had a time in my life, like, so many years ago where it felt hopeless, man. I have divorced parents and I'm a high school dropout and, oh, I got medically honorably discharged from the Navy. And. But that was like, so many lifetimes ago. And I don't know if it's because I'm so activated in the victor versus victim mentality at this point, or if it is that I have understood the assignment and I have my treasure map and I know where the X is and I know what my happiness factors are. But when I saw this word hopelessness, I was like, nope, nope. Like, I, at this point can say, I don't think I have those moments. I don't know if I spend time working through or even focusing on these kind of moments. And maybe it's, I don't have these moments of hopelessness because I am so hyper focused on the moments of happiness that create a happier mindset. And what I do want to drill down into at this point is that what I mean by this is it's the micro moments for me. Like, I find happiness in my feet being in the crisp, cool grass. I find happiness sitting at my back table with a coffee and a cigar, watching a sermon. I find happiness sitting next to my wife as we're playing blackjack. I find happiness in a nice steak or a warm buttered roll. I find happiness in the sunset and the sunrise. I find happiness and just being able to look over and pet my dog and be like, oh, I love you so much. You're such a good dog. To be able to see my kids and what they're becoming and who they're trying to grow up to be. I hate this question. I don't focus on those moments. I don't know how to answer this question. I think in a way that gives value. If what I have said hasn't given.
Value, well, I can answer it.
Please Do. Because I feel like I'm doing a crappy job at it.
No, I actually like the contrast here because I think what can happen is that we. You even pointed it out. You've gone through moments of hopelessness in your life. You are not giving the answer you are giving right now because you have never experienced hopelessness, lack of direction, screaming at the universe. It's not that you've had those lack of those moments. There is more time and distance between who you are now and those moments. Yeah, I'm very close to some of mine, so I'll be perfectly honest and say, here's what you need to do. Ask for help. Whether that's professional, whether that's in your community, whether that's friends, family. Ask for help. It is not wrong to ask for help. It is not wrong to feel feelings of hopelessness. You and I have talked offline about some of the mental health crises we're seeing in this country, specifically. I'm sure there are global echoes of this. But, for example, there is a mental health crisis with young men right now. To sit here and hear us say, you know, we have some distance from moments of hopelessness in our lives is not to devalue the fact that some of you may be feeling that. So ask for help. And then also, honestly, in my moments of hopelessness, which are not too far in my rearview mirror, I didn't wake up and go, you know, I'm going to meditate myself to happiness. No, I just continued to get up every morning and try again and just allow time to do its thing without stopping trying or asking for help when I needed it. Get help from friends, from families, from licensed professionals, but do not be afraid to ask for help. It is never a crime to ask for help. The strongest people. Strength is defined by, yes, doing scary things, but also knowing when to reach out and not do things alone.
I have to say this because I don't want anybody to think that the words that came out of my mouth previously are from a place of, like, judgment. Like, how do you have these moments of hopelessness? I hope that the listeners hear where I'm at and what I said and my discomfort in the question as like, hopefully an inspirational moment of like, oh, you mean I can achieve that in my life? Yes, you can get there. Yes, it is possible. Yes, working through the muck, the mire as getting help. Like Liz says, it can get you to a place where you're just fundamentally a different human being focused on fundamentally different things and living a life that you just had no clue was even possible being a human that you could never envision that you could actually be. And it is so good.
I hope no one would take that that way either. I found your answer very illuminating. And for those of you, if this happens to be your first episode that you're listening to us, I would encourage you to go back and listen to some of the previous episodes in which George has gone back to those places and shared some of the stories from places well within the default.
Yes.
You know, you've talked about moments where your wife was literally saying, you can't take a meeting right now, you freaking lunatic. You're going to the hospital, you're in the ambulance, worked yourself almost to death. The time that you almost died.
Yeah.
The Blessing Bombers episode.
Yeah.
Where you talked about, like this, seeking purpose. This is about a testament to the journey. And one of the reasons why I love this show is that you and I have a shared vision and we are at very different parts of our journey.
Yeah.
Very different.
Yeah.
So, George, as we wrap up this episode, I'd love to hear from you if you could leave our listeners with one way to challenge themselves about their own relationship with happiness in this coming week. And by asking for our listeners, I'm asking for me, what would it be?
I'll answer that. But by the way, if you're listening this at this point, I commend you because you have spent probably over an hour trying to figure out what happiness is. And that makes me happy that you are invested in yourself enough to give yourself the time to actually unpack where you're headed and what this is going to mean. So, Liz, when I sat down to think about this, I was like, well, what's the fundamental thing? Like, what's the one thing? Because I don't want to get yelled at, Liz, today about like, well, Liz, I've actually got two things. I just wanted to, like, drill it down to one. So the number one thing that most of us humans should focus on is practicing, especially around this conversation. Let me put that caveat with this conversation of happiness. The number one thing most of us humans should focus on is practicing gratitude. The simple yet powerful habit can profoundly impact your, my Liz's overall well being and perspective on the life that we're actually living in the moment. And by acknowledging and appreciating the good in your life, even during challenging times that we all have, you cultivate a mindset that recognizes and savors positive experiences, fostering a deeper sense of the word that we've been chasing this whole episode. Happiness gratitude helps shift focus from what's missing or negative to what's abundant and positive, promoting a more joyful, fulfilling and happy life. So this week the challenge I challenge you, the listeners and myself. By the way, Liz, I think I'm going to be erasing that whiteboard back there. It has a lot of good stuff on it, but I think I'm going to be erasing that whiteboard because my challenge for the listeners, myself and Liz is to get a piece of paper, a whiteboard or anything to keep a weekly and I'm saying weekly even though you might do it longer than the week, a weekly journal of all the positive things that happen in your life between now and next Monday or depending on when you're listening to this, the next seven days. But keep a journal of all the positive things that happen in your life as you travel this path to a life of happiness, to a life beyond your default.
