How to Build a Profitable Agency that Runs Without You

All right, welcome back to Agency Journey. This is your host, Gray MacKenzie. And this week I've got the pleasure of bringing on someone who now holds the record for, I think, the longest time span as a guest on this podcast. Mike rose from. From a handful of different things. We're going to talk about Mike, your, Your journey at Mojo Media Labs to your acquisition, to your work as an author and what's coming up next. But welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, Greg. It's great to be on again after all these years.

I know. So I should have looked it up, but either end of 2015 or I think it actually was in 2015, but could have been early 2016, I think you were the 14th episode of the podcast back to say. And we talked a little bit about. You wrote this book Roe Powers ROI back in 2012.

That's right, yeah. Yeah.

Wow. You've passed the, you're into 11th year now of the book. But so we talked a little bit about that. We talked about where Mojo was. I think you're around 14 people at the time. And so there's this whole like agency growth story and then you know, kind of culminates. I want to work my way. We're gonna go in media's race here and start kind of halfway through the journey or a little bit more than that, and then work our way back and work our way forward. But if we start kind of with the event that a lot of agency owners, a lot of listeners are probably anxious for at some point in their life, which is an exit, you were able, you and your wife Nicole were to sell the business last year to a much larger agency backed by some PE capital in, in Gravity Global. And so can we just kind of start with, give folks the real quick overview of what, what was Mojo Media Labs and what did the exit look like for you and Nicole and the team?

Sure. Well, I'm keeping it real here. My golden retriever is rolling around under my feet, so I'll try not to let that avoid me avoid the conversation. But yeah, it was a tremendous opportunity, a life changing opportunity, honestly for Nicole and I. And we went through the decision making process to even decide to sell. Like the same decision making process we did for everything. I mean hire Spires clients, you know, moving hiring, I mean, you name it. We just follow the same process which is, you know, and that was really driven by, you know, core values and, you know, the, the first thing, it had to be good for the Mojo makers, as we called them. We, we abolished the word employees. We don't like the word employee, it seems sound subservient. So we, number one, had to be good for the Mojo makers and number two, it had to be good for the clients. And then we felt that if it was always good for the Mojo makers, was always good for the clients and it would be good for Nicole and myself. And that was the same decision making process. I think it's just habit that we go through to decide to ultimately move on to exit Mojo and sell to Gravity Global and go through that decision making process in order to make sure it was the right fit for everybody.

How long was the time like, and I don't know, I don't even know the inside scoop on like the interest come inbound to you guys or was this a decision, hey, we're gonna start building an exit plan. And obviously you guys had done a lot to prepare, which I'd like to talk about as well. Kind of the work that, that went into getting the agency in a place where it was both desirable and, you know, you had the ability to exit and leave day to day operations. But how long was the timeframe between that first touch point with the Gravity Global team and then actually closing the transaction?

We signed the LOI on January 3rd and we officially closed on May 12th. So we went through. Yeah, relatively speaking, I was pretty quick. It's. They're based in London, so it's a London headquartered agency. And we went through four stages of due diligence. Excuse me, four different areas of due diligence to include legal, tax, financial, etc. And so that was, it was, it was a very. We were prepared for it. We are very grateful to have run a very tight knit and very well run agency in the sense of we had our stuff together, so it went super smooth. But to answer your earlier question is when we decided that the bigger decision here was we actually decided on in 2013. I won't give you the long story unless you wanted, but I came home from an event one night after talking to multiple friends over multiple years of selling their businesses. And I came home to Nicole and I just basically said, In 10 years, on May 13, we're going to sell Mojo Media Labs. And that would have been 10 years from 2013 to 2023. And she knew the state of the agency at the time, which isn't the greatest state, as we all experience on our journey. And she basically just kind of said, you're absolutely insane. There's no value here. I mean, what we've created is a monster and our culture wasn't great. And, you know, revenues were okay, but profits were terrible. I mean, it was just in a really bad state. But I said, listen, I don't know how we're going to do this, but that's, that's the goal. That's a 10 year plan. So we decided. I decided and then slowly was able to, you know, get her on board with it. But it was just that it was a mantra for me. It was just, it was a purpose that I needed to have happen. And whether I was going to stay involved or, excuse me, whether I was going to stay owning the agency and exit at that time, or we sell it to the, the employees or we sell it to somebody else. I mean, but the objective would be for me to have a what's next and move on. And, and so that was a very ambitious goal. And we even set not only the date and the time, but also the, the number. And I'm really glad to say that when we exited on May 12, a day before May 13, which was ironically my birthday, but a year before, a year earlier as well, and for more than what we originally threw out there, which was just a tremendous kind of realization that, you know, you can set big goals and they can be really far into the future. But I think it's the process of setting that and just relentlessly figuring out, I'm not going to worry about the how yet. I'm just going to know that this will happen in the future. And I think things just kind of align with when you do that.

Yeah, that's the vision role that tied back to the book concept. That's amazing. Congratulations on the sale. I want to give people a little bit of color. What was the profile of Mojo at the time? And what's the profile of Gravity Global? Yeah, you know, team size, primary services, that kind of stuff.

Sure. So Mojo evolved over the years. We had some pretty big, what I call kind of quantum leaps at Mojo in the, in the early days in 2011, 10, 11, 12 even, we were, we were a project shop. We were working month to month, you know, trying to earn revenue like you, the best you can from project, you know, cash flow, if you will, and, and just knew there was a better way. So the first big quantum leap for us was to decide to go inbound and obviously go HubSpot. And, and that was, that was a big moment for us. And that took us into the B2B space, which then over the following many years, probably up to the time we talked in 15 or 16, we made another kind of our Second big quantum leap, which was to really go all in on account based marketing, which is in my opinion the best strategy you can take if you're dealing with B2B clients. And that was another big quantum leap for us. And that took us even further and deeper and in more up upscale if you will, to the, in the B2B world. And so we really, we got to be known for that. And as a result, when we were looking at the potential buyers and we were very, very fortunate to have many at the table to settle on Gravity because they are the largest, excuse me, the most awarded B2B agency in the world. And I think There were totaled 400 awards last year alone. So it's, it's tremendous. And so we knew they could take our account based marketing processes and clients and we could apply that to much to already installed clients, which was a really nice fit for, for both of us because our team was completely bought in. And when I say the first decision was, is it good for Mojo makers, Was it good for their careers? Can they advance? Can they grow? Can they not just grow from where, from a career perspective now they can work anywhere in the world and most likely walk into a Gravity global office, which is, which is tremendous. It's really nice to be able to offer that to them and practice the skill that we help develop over time, which is in the account based marketing strategy space.

That's awesome. Why were there so many bidders for Mojo Media Lab? So is this a very like process working with a broker to go through the exit process or was it all inbound? What did that look like?

Yeah, we found a partner that really specialized in working in the agency space and got to understand how Mojo was run beyond just the digital space, but how we were run as a business. It was really important for Nicole and I to, over the past many, many years to really teach financial literacy to everybody in the business. And we wanted them to understand how we made money, how we lost money, how, how the business ran. Right. And so I say that because we just, we, we were in the digital marketing space, we just happened to be there. But we're all business owners. We could take what we've learned from running a business and apply it to almost any business. So the agency was well run from a business management perspective and everybody in the business was very aligned to how to produce the most performance out of the business from a profitability, from a top line and bottom line perspective. And they really liked that. A lot of the buyers we talked to just liked how well run the business was and how they could potentially scale that. And it was almost like intrinsic value. It was value you really can't put a number on, but there was value there beyond the typical value measures of a business to how they could apply that to now a much, much larger agency.

Yeah, I think, and I mean, just for listeners to know, like, I've had a chance to see how you run the business just through working with you guys while you still had the agency and your kind of obsession with data and with like, just having transparency around. Is this, like, is there a dashboard that shows me, you know, where. Where are we from a growth perspective? Where are we from a delivery perspective where, from an operations perspective is abnormal in the agency space? And I wish that every one of our clients looked like, you know, had that same drive for, hey, I actually want to know how this is run. But that that led to. And you kind of, I mean, you really chipped away over the years of like, how do we get a number for this? How do we quantify this? How do we quantify this and get clarity on what this, what these things look like? And so that's really cool to hear you say. Like, there is a lot of sophistication there that wasn't just kind of wrapped up in your. I think the coolest part to me about the whole story and way that you and Nicole ran the firm is it wasn't just kind of data hoarding so that you had numbers, but the transparency side and teaching members of the team how to think about and understand what running a healthy business looks like.

You really nailed it at the end there. And that is the teaching part. And data is one thing. We just couldn't get our hands on enough measurables or data. But that really wasn't the end goal. The end goal was to provide the insights that the data was telling us. Right. And hence the teaching part. And, you know, the. The insights, not so much for our clients. I think too many agency owners build their agency for their clients and they don't build the agency for themselves to get the data for themselves, how to run their agency first, then to make good client decisions. So we just tried to collect all that information. We weren't the best at it. We just tried to learn day to day and make the best decisions we could based on the information. But mostly how to empire, empower all the mojo makers with the information, teach them how to get insights from this information so they can make the best decisions for themselves. Because if you're working in the. In the B2B particularly space, but any space really, but B2B space. And you, whether you're a front end programmer or a content creator or visual design or whatever you do, if you know how a business is run, if you're taught how the business is being managed, then you're going to be a better resource for your clients. What we would say all the time is we are an expense on our clients. Pnl. Right. So first of all, we had to explain what a piano was a profit loss statement. We have to explain what an expense is and we had to explain what a variable expense is. We had to drill down into what SGNA is and what sales and marketing expenses are on a. When they got to understand that how our business ran, how well, we, we tried to explain how it ran and let them make their own decisions. As a result, it put more value on the quality we needed to deliver for our clients. So we stayed in expense there and be able to just speak business talk first and then talk digital marketing talk second.

Right. So we're kind of already getting into one of the key things that allowed you to achieve your goal. I had a schedule and above budget, above, above, above target. I guess a budget's normally not a good word, but in this case it's a good word. But so you know, Mojo's not the only business that you and Nicole have run. You've, you know, we've talked a little bit in the past about some of the other ventures and the cool stuff that you've been into. You've been an entrepreneur for a long time, but what else happened? Like paint the picture for us. So if you had to take these last 10 years from you making that commitment to actually realizing that dream, other than the data side and training the team, like what are the other checkpoints that you guys hit to have a really valuable saleable asset?

Sure, number one, I think it has. I mean, everybody can approach us differently. I'm just going to share my opinion. But it, the agency can't be run with you, the owner. I think it's really important to figure out how to remove yourself from the agency. And I followed my own process that I kind of created. But it's, it's, you know, we hear all the time and I hear talk about you really as an agency owner. I'm talking about owners here. You really have to work more on your business than in your business. And I see a lot of head shaking and saying, yeah, I need to do that. But it's really never been defined what that really Means and to me, working in your business is the areas of subject matter expertise to deliver the work to the client. And I worked very hard at not getting pulled into the SME world, which is in the business. And it was really hard. Even when we pivoted to that second quantum leap into account based marketing, it's hard for me not to get a, to be obsessed about something and not go super deep in it. But I just trained myself to how do I leverage this and work on the business? How do I create a strategy, a business strategy, not a client strategy. How do I create a business strategy around this account based marketing concept and then how do I create processes? Of course, you guys help tremendously with that to make that strategy implementable, you know, operational within the business. And, and that just kind of got to be a habit where I, I spent probably 0% of my time in the business and 80% of my time on the business. And, and over time, because I knew this deadline is looming, nine years, eight years, seven years, six years down the road, that's, I had to slowly even take a step further, working more strategically on the business. And that then later led to working more on the vision. And to me, vision is like sound. It's indescribable. We have to create our own vision and that is through our core values, our mission and our purpose. So we worked a lot on the culture of the business and how to communicate that culture internally and externally. And you know, it's exciting to present Mojo in a, in a presentation in for 30 minutes and not even say what we do, but why we do it. And that, that, that became pretty exciting because we even had people we were pitching apply to work at Mojo because they just loved the vision, they loved what we were doing and that was pretty special. And, and over time I added another aspect to that ratio to not just work, get out of working in your business, work more on your business, but and most importantly, work out of your business. And for me, working out of the business was me slowly working on my what's next. So you know, if you ever plan to sell your business or if you ever sell your business, you're going to get asked this question and, and just be ready for it. And that is what's next? What are you going to do next? And so I set my what's next the same day 10 years ago that I set the, the exit. And that was to, to really work on my concept, return on energy and, and be able to, you know, share that with with other business owners and Key executives. And, and that was my driving force to not get sucked into the whirlwind of working in uh, it motivated me to work on and, and eventually getting to, you know, the, as they say, the four hour work week where you're basically working 90% if you will, out of the business, 10% on the business and 0% in the business. And lastly, I think it was probably more challenging to work four hours a week than it was 40 hours a week because there's a, there's a psychological thing like do they need me? I'm not, I'm not, I'm not giving enough, I'm not available enough. Am I taking advantage of the situation? Are they seeing. So there's a lot of head trash. And as you slowly move through this process. But what we discovered is that as, as this process was happening, it was only increasing the value of the business. And I'd like to say that was intentional, but it was kind of some unintended positive consequences in that. But that's basically how, how it worked.

That's a real vlog. You have so many follow up questions. Let me ask a one tied to what you just said about just kind of your own psychology. Did you feel like as you scaled your time down and down and down in terms of time that you're working on or in the business and you're working more out of the business, but knowing that you're running towards this finish line of selling the business, how did you combat the feeling that hey, like the business is fine, we're okay if I work less and less, but also I could be an accelerant here and we could increase our valuation. You know, every dollar that we generate in top line revenue or, or in profit at least is another six, seven that we, that we make when we go exit this thing. So how did you combat that feeling or the, the desire to kind of optimize the outcome?

It was all consuming. I mean, I think if there's one, we all have three resources we invest every day and that's time, money and effort. And we all have the same amount of time. Money is I think, quite frankly irrelevant to a positive outcome. Whether you have it or you don't, or you need it, or you think you need it or whatever the case might be. It's really the effort. You know, effort is, you know, the drive, the ambition, the obsession, the relentless pursuit, the persistence. You know, that's the effort part and the effort that went into this. And to be clear, it wasn't just 10 years ago, wasn't to sell the agency. It was for me to exit the agency. And how that looked, I had no idea. I just knew that I didn't want to be running an agency beyond this point in time in my life. And we, I set the goal initially because our youngest, my son Preston, graduates in May of, I guess, this year, May. And I really wanted to spend that, that, that summer with him before he goes to college. It was like, if I can exit on May 13, that's around the time he'll graduate. That's my birthday. I'll spend three months just hanging out with him and just kind of really, that, that was really kind of the silly little motivation that I had. It. We can, we can set goals to our head, but we really have to process goals with our heart. And we always try to connect the head to the heart. And again, just kind of a, A repetition thing that we do is habit. It's like, how can I create a goal that touches my heart? And so the exit was for that, honestly, that reason. It wasn't anything grandiose than that. And I knew then I wanted to take ROE to the next level, return our energy to the next level. So, you know, the, the psychology behind it really was, how do I exit as an owner? And I don't think I've ever said this publicly before, but I never from. For the hubspotters out there, I, I never got an inbound certification before. And it was really kind of a conscious decision to say, that's going to pull me in, quote, unquote, in the business. And I would kind of obviously take it. I think I could explain inbound and ABM very, very well, but I didn't want to take the certification because I knew that pulled me in. I'd rather find the right people. It was more of a who, not how. Find the right people to do the. The how. In order to find the right people in the world that we live in, in the agency world, you had to have an amazing. And have a great culture and anything we could bolt on. To have a great culture was an objective to, to, to do that. And so you, you, if you go to my LinkedIn, you won't find any inbound certifications and all this other stuff. I didn't talk to. I was, I was part of the advisory council. I was kind of like part of that process, but it was more from a visionary business strategy perspective than it was maybe what it's typically designed for. I'm not necessarily proud of that per se, but it was part of the process to say I, I want to be, I want to exit and I want to do it under my terms. And this is my what's next? And so just kind of a lot of micro decisions every single day led up to that ultimate goal is a great illustration.

That's a really cool. I feel like there's a lot of those cliches or principles or kind of tests that who really cares about the practical? Like, would it have mattered to you hit your goal if you get certified? Certainly. I think of that as like, what do I pick up in the morning when I first wake up? Am I grabbing my phone first or am I grabbing my bible first? That tells me a lot about where, where I am functionally right. Right now. Is it wrong if I grab my phone first? Like, no, that does not like necessarily wrong. But it's an indication of where my heart and where my head is at. And so that's a cool, a really cool illustration endpoint. I want to talk about stage three, like what comes next for you? But last question before we get there because this one I think is probably, maybe not top of mind, but probably something that comes up anytime we talk about exits and your, and your long vision for that. Did you communicate that vision to your team or when. When. And how did you communicate that vision to your team?

Yeah, when I, When I moved to the, When I moved to the. The where was. I'm trying to remember. I call it the, the, the ooey ratio. So the ooey ratio is O I. It's out on in. Right. So it's. The ratio was. I started, I, I kind of say, I joke and started at a.00,130%. You know what I mean? Like a lot of people are. And I just knew that wasn't how I wanted to live my life. And so I set an initial goal just to have 33. 33, 33, 33% working out of my business during the 40 hour work week. Because if you're trading your time for money and you're an agency owner, you have a job, whether you kind of want to believe it or not, you have a job. And I didn't want to have a job and, and I wanted to create jobs, I wanted to create opportunities and, and for other people. And I knew that wasn't going to be the case if I was sitting in their seat. So when I moved to an 8020 0. When I moved to 80% working out of the business, four days a week out of the business and 20% on the business, which is a full day, by the way, that's when it was, it was running well. And I we stress test that over time to leave for a period of time and started a week and it was two weeks and it was like things are going well. And the first time we stress tested it was a week in Hawaii. And it was like I came this close to flying home halfway through it because it was just an absolute disaster. And that was around the 1514 timeframe, I believe. And so it started really rocky. But when everybody saw me slowly making this progress and I was very transparent about this progress, then they loved it because it empowered them to make decisions and they had a decision making process structure our values to do that. And so long as you're making decisions around the core values, then I don't care what happens. You know, you would have made the right decision. If you. If it's not ultimately a great outcome, it's an opportunity to learn. Let's talk about it. But I never tried to tell people what to do. And that that included, by the way, the leadership team, not just me. So, you know, we try to empower leadership team to have, to have people make their own decisions. And to do that you have to be okay with mediocrity. People don't like when I say that, but you have to be okay with that. You have to be okay with potentially really screwing things up. And. But it's if, if people are the right person, you know, meaning they're, they have the, the core values and they're living by your, by your vision that you set, then almost celebrate that, because I'd rather make those mistakes early on and then fix the processes as a result, get more information in to make better decisions and insights from that data to then keep plugging along. So that's kind of the process. But when I got to the 8020, it was, people were just like, just go, just get out of here. We don't need you here. And then I started to interject myself, then I got sucked in it again. And that was the head trash of me saying, oh, they need me. But it ultimately got to the point where they didn't. So when we set this plan in place to be pretty much 100% out just before COVID and when Covid hit, then I just felt the need to be more involved, obviously. And we navigated that super well. I'm so proud of the team, how we navigated that. And as a result, then I was able to put it into place just.

After that yeah, that's really helpful to hear. I think the point about tolerating mediocrity or, you know, some failures along the way is really hits home with me. I found it's easier for me, I don't know why, but easier for me to compartmentalize that in, you know, coached high school baseball for a long time and totally okay with losing some games early in the season to try to get the outcome that we're shooting for with a program or to make a point here. Let somebody fail in a situation because of kind of a bigger picture outcome and that's easier for me. I've done some journaling around this, like, why is that easier for me to process than in the business where it's like, oh no, this one client project is like, we're two days late and we need to solve this right now. Like this is the biggest thing and get so worked up about that. But I do think there needs to be a long term view as part of that.

That, that's really well said. One of the, one of the, the things that we followed was if you get, if you get sucked into that, if you try to control the outcome or you try to do the work yourself or you don't give up control, you feel like you have control, which you don't, or you want to do the work yourself, that's essentially called a micromanager. And nobody wants to be micromanaged, obviously. So we looked at it as micro mentorship. And, and as a micro mentorship perspective, it's like, how do I, I'm a coach, right? And in order to really mentor somebody, they have to understand how to be a great mentee. And not everybody, I think most people want to be mentored, but they may not know how to be mentored. So therefore part of the micro mentorship process is to help them understand that I'm not here to do your job for you, I'm here to coach you and build your skill set so you can be the expert to do this particular, hold this particular role. And so the micro mentorship is, it's easy to say, but what's so difficult about it is leadership and management are technically very easy. It's one to many. But mentorship requires that resource that we talked about time and, and that's what's so limited. So mentorship is one to one. And it's hard to mentor, much less micro mentor a team of 15 or 20 or 40 people. But if you put the right pieces in place, mentorship becomes working on the business. So how do you create more time for people to work more on the business and less in the business and working on your business, not on your client's business? And when we started to kind of look at it through a different lens, it, we started to attract the right people who really wanted to be in that environment. And that was what was pretty cool.

Yeah, that's awesome. So what's next?

The question, right, the big question, it was cool, is, you know, I was able to at least check that box a long time ago and you know, when officially published Return on Energy Roe Powers roi, the book, you can find it on Amazon back in2012. So, you know, I, I knew that was going to be my what's next. I, I, I started jotting down. I have a chemistry background, so I'm a scientist by trade, so I'm always experimenting and, and testing and retesting and breaking and fixing and the methodology, Return on Energy methodology back in 2007 and then published the book in 12. And I went, when it, when it came out, I was like, that's my what's next? I don't know when, I don't know how we're going to do this, but that's what I want ultimately my legacy to be from a business perspective. And you know, I'm really proud of it. It's having published the book 12 years or 10 years ago in 12 and, and it just, you know, going into the 13th year or the 11th year, it's, I wouldn't change a word in the book. I mean, it's, it's been, it's, I'm really proud of it. It's, it's, it's, it's content that's just blessed me across the board in so many different areas. And so that's my what's next? I want to create. I want to take this and I'm grateful that the business. I'm not in this position, say five years ago because five years ago I would have wrote another book. I would have gone out to speak and I would have did consulting. I mean that's what you do, right? And it's like what I value most is my freedom. I thought it was financial freedom, but what I discovered over time with myself, it's just more freedom. And that's what is done. The why behind making all decisions moving forward. And therefore it's not going to be around exclusively those three things. It's going to be around creating digital products through a learning management system that we can create and deliver. And I'm incredibly Blessed to get asked a lot to kind of consult and work with people one on one. And that's just not enough time. So by creating these online products, people can take them and then we can touch so many more different lives. And ultimately it's to energize entrepreneurs to ultimately grow their business to live a life they love too. And that's what's pretty special about it because the technology is really caught up to being able to deliver the product in a digital form.

Yeah. Let's tell people a little bit about the workshops because I think you just ran one of the first workshops that you've done around it, but walk through what that looks like.

Sure. So we launched the first set of workshops last week, actually the week of, of February 21st and 22nd, and to a founding member group. And it was. I was just really pleased and I'm, I'm my biggest critic, so. But I was really pleased with how, how it turned out. There was just a lot of work that went into it. I decided to take six months off after May last year and to fulfill my goal to spend time with Preston and whatnot, but in my family in general, but in Nicole and things like that. But I needed that time to just kind of reset and plan and then hit it really hard in, in November, December. But I'm really pleased with how it turned out. I was in a good state of mind to create it. So the objective is to really help business owners and key executives through the process that I and we as a leadership team went through. And that is to really come up with a healthy ooey ratio using return on energy. And that is again the ratio of working out on or in your business. And that's step one, which we call the ROE Workshop or the Entrepreneur Breakthrough, if you will. And then that is a. Is a prerequisite, if you will, to what we're building now, which is the ARI Masterclass.

That's awesome. If folks want to check it out. What's the. Where should we send.

Yeah. So if you know for, you know, the agency world's my people, so I just love, I love this, this audience and. But send me a personal email. Send it to mike@returnonenergy.com and I'll make sure you get a discount code or something to an upcoming workshop, which is the next One is on March 24th, I believe.

Awesome.

And it's a live online workshop.

We'll make sure we've got that in the show notes. Sure. Man. I could ask you so, so many more questions. Folks who've written books are some of my favorite people to talk to because you've had to you know you've fought through all of this stuff hundreds of times before and so the ability to then articulate and communicate it is super, super helpful. So I appreciate you being willing to come come back on share your story. Again. Congratulations again on the on the exit and on the transition and on stage three. I'm excited to see and follow your journey as you keep moving but but thanks for joining us today.

Let's do it again in 2028 and see see what where we're at. It's been great great and you you guys have been an incredible resource for us along the the journey and honestly you know couldn't have done a lot of this without you and your team so that very grateful for that as well.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Cool.

All right. Thanks Mike. I appreciate it.

Appreciate you. Bye.