How to Stay Consistent While Handling Change and the Unexpected in 2024 [HubHeroes, Video EP66]

Rule number one broken. There you go. Does that make you happy? I turned off, George. I turned off the. Are you for real, Devin? I turned that off. That's rule number one.

Hey, you.

You threw down a challenge without even knowing you threw down a challenge.

That was a.

That was a cry for help. What are you talking about?

I took it the wrong way. I'm sorry.

I'm prepared for chaos.

Speaking of you.

Prepared for change. Sorry.

Speaking of chaos. You want to hear something fun, guys? You want to hear something crazy? Some wild. This is our last recording of 2023. By the time this hits people's feeds, it's going to be probably the first Tub Heroes episode they listened to in 2024.

But.

How is the future.

But, you know, last week we was the last episode where the whole gang was together for the year. This week we got a smaller crew. It's me.

It's you, George.

It's you, Devin. And I'm willing to wager that for all of us, that includes us and our listeners, we're looking ahead to 2024 as a big year, Right? Maybe it's a make or break year. Maybe it's a dream big year. Maybe it's a stay the course because we're slaying the game already kind of year. Or maybe if you're me, it's a I'm about life lessened out universe, can you chill just for a sec kind of year. But whatever the case may be, if you're thinking about 2024 in that way, this is your episode. Because we're not talking tools today, guys. We're not talking optimization strategies. We're not talking content tips at all. So you may be asking why a HubSpot, a HubSpot dedicated podcast isn't going to be talking about tools, tactics, strategies, best practices. Why are we doing that? Okay, I'm going to answer that for.

You guys by reading off a list.

Of different situations, and then I want us to talk about what makes them similar.

I love situations, by the way.

I know.

So let's pretend for a moment your.

Predictions for results of a campaign you launched fell short because not enough of the humans you serve took the actions you wanted them to take, for whatever reason. Or maybe it was the opposite. The responses were overwhelming, bigger and better than you expected. A client you absolutely love and who loves you in return and has never said a negative thing about you has to discontinue their contract. Not because you did anything wrong, but because they hit hard times. Or maybe you've hit hard times or maybe the market's taken a hit. Or maybe HubSpot has introduced new tools and features or like they did this year. Maybe an entirely new freaking hub out of nowhere that helps you rethink how you do inbound. Maybe your company introduces a new product or service. Maybe other content publishers and creators follow the lead of the New York Times, who this week, as we're recording this, sued OpenAI for using copyrighted materials to generate responses in its ChatGPT platform. And if this suit goes in favor of the New York Times, it could result in OpenAI having to destroy any and all data sets leveraging that copyrighted material. That is a huge precedent to set. Maybe your SaaS platform vendors are going to raise their prices. That impacts your budget. Maybe a social media platform you rely on to attract, engage and delight prospects and customers changes their algorithm, which kills the little organic traffic you had coming from those platforms. Or maybe our all time favorite, an inbound greatest hit, Google, does another core update that ruins your life and impacts your search rankings. As a result, the organic traffic you're seeing to your site gets tiny and small. So what do these all have in common? What do these, each of these scenarios represent? Well, I'm going to tell you. First, if you're an inbounder or a business leader of any kind, you've likely experienced some, if not all of these disruptive circumstances. I know I have definitely many of them just in this past year. Second, there's a good chance that at least one of these things will happen again to you this year, either positively or negatively. And that cuts to the heart of what we want wanted to talk about today, right. In theory, we're all gallivanting into 2024 with plans and strategies. Maybe there. I love your galloping. Gosh, if you were watching this live through the community folks, you'd see George doing his little skip. This is my favorite.

But think about it. Whether they're documented or just living in our heads or some combination of the two, we've got plans, we got things we want to do, we have business that needs to be conducted and get done. But one thing is for certain, we will encounter disruptions, circumstances this year that will turn what we're working on to some degr on its head. Because even positive disruptions are disruptive in what we in that we need to.

Pivot, adjust and adapt.

So that's what we're talking to be truth, to be the road that we want to travel down. And so you know, I know we're not really challenging people Per se. But one of my challenges for any of the listeners is to realize, like, there's a way that you have to do business, and there's a way that you could do business. There's even a way that you should do business. And my challenge would be, well, should it be business as usual, or should you go into the could or should realm dependent upon what change or what pivot is happening around you in your life? That. That's my thoughts.

Devin, what about you? What's the change that you went through this year, and how'd you handle it?

Well, well, 2023 has probably been the longest year of my life. Yes, it has been. To call it a roller coaster would be a gross understatement. It's like, professionally, you know, it's been fairly stable, but this year it got a divorce. And. And it was not an easy divorce. This. This person wants me to suffer. And so I've been going through it this year, but having to, you know, pivot every aspect of my life, from finances to parenting to my circle of friends, everything, it's. It's this. This year has been quite the undertaking. And it's just. Life has been tough. And so dealing with. With that change, managing that change. Therapy helps having someone to talk to. And I mean, that's whether you're going through massive changes or not. I highly recommend therapy for anyone. Whether you think you're crazy or not. Doesn't matter.

Probably are.

Yeah. Yeah. It's always the ones that think they're saying, but, yeah, no, this has been just massive dealing with, like, personal change. Like, even now, like today, as we're recording this, going into New Year's this weekend, it was like having to constantly refer to documents and visitation schedules, like, do I have them for New Year's this year, dude? Like, how does that work? And it says that it's for parent two for odd number of years, but technically I'm parent two, so it should be in my year. But, oh, wait, New Year's, they counted as the year that it falls on. And so since it's an even year, this means technically hers. So I have them now during the second. And it's like the whole. It's like you're doing algebra just to figure out how you're spending time with your kids. But as far as, you know, dealing with it, there are things that you have to deal with just because you have no choice but to deal with them. The thing is, is that, you know, life happens, and you can either roll with it or be rolled over by it. And how you choose to, to handle life happening is entirely up to you. It doesn't mean that you're not going to come out unscathed. Doesn't mean that you're not going to shed some tears. It doesn't mean it's not going to hurt. But you know life is going to do what it do, baby, and you just, you just gotta go with it.

I love this so much. And Devin, when I listen to you, I, I keep asking myself and you know I'm a big proponent of is it possible? Right. I love to like ask yourself, is it possible? Well, in a different context this time I go, man, is it possible that it's a roller coaster, a horror story and a visit to the dentist all wrapped up in one? Like maybe that was Devin's 2023. But, but my dude out, out of that, like the thing I took away is like, you're still standing 100.

That is the takeaway.

Yep. And, and hashtag props. Because the, the fact that you were like, life is gonna do what it's gonna do. And my brain immediately went to. And it's the decisions that you make in between that that will make the man or the woman. So this is super dope. Freaking super dope. Liz, what about, what about you?

I mean, I'll be honest, in many ways my year kind of rhymed with Devin's with some extra spice and different spice in different areas. I, I went. They say what, like you're only supposed to do like one, maybe two big life changes per year. Three is the absolute max.

You just did all of them. Right?

I decided to just do like, let's just, let's just do a 12 month long stress test and see what happens. I got a divorce.

I relocated from Maryland to Connecticut. I had numerous times had to rethink my business due to factors that were within my control and factors that were outside of my control. There were times where, and you know, George, you and I have talked about this at length because you have been, you know, not only a partner, but a dear friend through this journey. Like, there were days where I'm like, I am getting up because I have a meeting. Thank goodness I have that meeting, you know what I mean? For a long time there, you know, I felt like I was a little.

Deadline machine, which was, which was a challenge.

So when I think about like the.

Different changes that occurred over this year.

There are a couple of things that.

Immediately spring to mind. One, I had to get really good.

At discerning.

What were tests that were outside of my control, experiences or circumstances outside of my control versus those that were self inflicted. And what can I learn in either case? You know, because let's be honest, when you're going through a lot of change, especially if it's traumatic change, especially if.

It'S change where you're trying to do a bunch of new things all at.

Once, you know, be a business owner for the first time, relocating all of those different things, you know, you're going to make mistakes and then most of.

All, learning how to learn and grow through those moments as opposed to getting.

Trapped in the, you know, kind of.

Doom spiral of I made this mistake.

What does this say about me? Yeah, and I'll admit I wasn't perfect.

At that all the time. Like, there were a lot of moments this year where I confronted parts of myself I didn't know I possessed. Both good and areas where I needed to make changes. You know, there were times where the. I literally didn't know how I was going to get through certain moments, but it came down to, well, what am I going to do?

Explode?

I still, I'm going to get up the next morning. Like, there's really not like, you know, like excluding the idea of, like, I'm just going to wake up and implode one day. Like, the days are going to keep.

Going, so I had to keep going.

So when I think about this past.

Year, it's funny, I and I about my own question, like, would I have handled things differently?

It reminds me of the conversation George, you and I had a few episodes ago where we were kind of goofing on ourselves about like the Thanksgiving episode we did last year. Like, we were effing morons. We had no idea what was about to happen to us this year for different reasons.

Yeah.

It's funny, I can see moments where I'm like, maybe in that micro moment I might have made a different decision. But when I look back this year from the perspective I have now and the position I'm standing in it, I.

Don'T, I think this was the path.

I had to walk, you know, and you know, there's still messes I'm cleaning up. There's still things I'm learning, there's still lessons. But like, I feel really good about where I'm standing right now.

Yeah.

Even though it was an interesting journey to get here, we'll just.

Yeah. Nobody's. Yeah. Nobody said it was going to be a straight road. Right. It's. It's a windy, curvy uphill downhill. Liz there's three things that as you were talking though, I want to pull out the the ability to refactor your business, the ability to reframe your life. Those are two superpowers for anybody who is trying to make it through as life is going to keep kind of chugging at them. But then when you were talking about trying to figure out if it was a test, immediately popped into my brain. The serenity prayer. Religious or not religious, it doesn't matter. You've all seen it hanging in a restaurant. You've seen it hang maybe in your grandparents house somewhere. But this idea of God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change. Like, just let me accept it. The courage to change the things I can. And dang on it. This is the part that was like smacking me in the face when you're talking. The wisdom to freaking know the difference. Like, yep, that's just a bundle of like good life advice right there. Is like dissect it into this bin or this bin, burn that bin and hope for the best on this other one. Like, let's go.

Yeah, that's what made the whole journey so fascinating this year. And I'm sure there are lots of new spicy lessons in 2024 that we'll be talking about this time next year and that, and that's exciting and that's.

Great and Good, good for 2024. Liz, you strong little badass.

But when I think about, when I think about this past year, I think the big thing for me is that I think sometimes we can kind of get stuck in the plot points instead of the larger story. Right? Like, is the story this year that I had to like reimagine my business in multiple different ways due to events I didn't expect? Is the story really about like the tough mornings, the tough days, the individual moments, the divorce itself? Or is this the year I chose me and I bet on myself? And that's how I'm kind of looking to think about it, is that I think cumulatively or individually, when you have a lot of events, particularly those that are outside of your control or come out of left field, or choices you didn't know you were going to have to make until you were presented with new information. I think sometimes we'll get stuck on what the plot points actually were, like the events that actually transpired instead of what the story really is that unfolded. And this is where I'm kind of the content nerd, right? The story isn't that Devin and I.

Are divorce who went through the.

The story is that this year we are ending it as Devon and Liz, full stop. Our values in T with a clear vision of who we want to be, where we want to go, and who we want to do it with. And I think that's a much more powerful and interesting story.

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I love it.

I love it. So let. Let's switch gears here a little bit. Why is it. Because we've talked a lot about kind of the negative side of change, but sometimes there are positives, right? Like, let's put it in the inbound context. One of the examples I gave at the start of this. Sometimes you can take a swing with a marketing campaign, a piece of content, and it goes viral or it has, like, wild changes or wild responses that you didn't expect. That opens up a whole new world of possibilities. And even that can be truly disruptive. Even that requires you to drop things, change things, adapt, move, pivot, et cetera. Right. Why is it that even when change is positive or negative, what. What makes us so squirrely about it? What makes us so resistant? Even if the change is positive?

I can opt in there.

Oh, yeah, go ahead, Devin. And then, George, you need to at some point bring up who moved my cheese. I know that's your favorite example, but.

Oh, it's in my notes. It's. It's in my notes. So we'll get there.

Prediction machine.

Yeah, we'll get there.

Well, the thing is that we are, you know, for the most part, creatures of habit. And we like, you know, things consistent. Like, case in point, my mom. I had to go to Philly for a couple days. My mom came, and while she came, she decided that my house wasn't clean enough and hired a cleaning company to go through and clean my house because my mom doesn't understand boundaries. And so now, you know, in my house, looking for things, I can find nothing because everything's been moved around. All of my shoes, for some reason, are in the basement. Can't find anything. And so while, yes, technically it is a positive change, well, personally, I didn't notice anything except the place smelling different. But it was tough because it was like that routine was messed up. And that change pushed me out of my comfort zone and out of my predetermined happy place. And so change is tough because it requires you to reform new neural pathways and to exercise that neuroplasticity in order to get involved and engage that change. But, yeah, that. That is, you know, for me, anyway, why change is difficult because you have to change with it. And it's not fun. It's not easy. It's like exercising, but without all the endorphins.

So I love that you kind of landed on. It's like exercising. Because it dovetails quite nicely into. My answer to that question is, to be honest, it doesn't have to be hard, but. But we don't exercise that muscle. If I keep with the same analogy, Devon, that you're using, like, most of us, I'm not saying all, because there are probably some listeners that are like, I do.

That.

I did. Sweet. You are awesome.

Good for you.

Good for you. But most times we're not preparing for it, we're not looking for it, and we're not flat out embracing it with open arms where like, no, no, no, no. But there is the ability to become a transition specialist where you are preparing for it. You're actually excited and looking for it, and you're ready to embrace it when it comes, Right? And again, yes, Liz, if you are a person who. You just hate change and you want to try to reposition your brain around it, then you could definitely get the book who Moved My Cheese? Because I think it helps with you to start to understand that. But here's what. I want to dig in a little bit deeper to this, because, by the way, I have a deep relationship with change. I moved 18 times before I was 15. I went to multiple different schools. I have thousands of different friends. Over my lifetime, I've probably had 32 jobs. I've been a bouncer at a bar and a bartent, you know, bartender and a pastor at a church and a HubSpot guru guy. The Internet says, if you do it on chat GPT. Who's George B. Thomas? Do that chat GPT and see what it says. It's ridiculous. Like, so I. I am intimate with change. And the funny thing is that it comes down to. And I love the way that a previous boss would. Would talk about this Remington beg. And he. He would always say. And when I say always, I mean this would. It would come up in a lot of conversations. You say, hope for the best. Now, when you hear that, I want you to put in your brain, run the scenarios, Hope for the best. What are the best scenarios? Plan for the worst. Run the scenarios, right? Hope for the best and plan for the. For the worst. Now, my brain, when I was getting ready for this episode and was thinking about Remington and thinking about this like, it doesn't have to be hard, and I got into that mix of the scenarios, right? Because I do this when I was a kid, somebody said, and it was when I learned how to downhill ski. They're like, visualize what. What Olympians do is they visualize their run down the slopes. They visualize the race. They'll be in their living room six months before, and they're visualizing, they're running the scenario or scenarios that they want for the outcome. So I got in this mental loop of running around scenarios, and I started thinking, you know, it's kind of like Avengers end game, where Dr. Strange reminds Tony they only have one shot. And Tony, this was. There was no other way. There was no. Because Dr. Strange had run the scenarios.

Now.

Now here's what I'm saying. You don't have to be a superhero, but you just have to allow your brain to take the possible journeys to run the scenarios of what happens if that best case, what happens if that worst case, and. And let the branches go. Right. So that's where I kind of live in this space where I'm always visualizing what could potentially happen if I were to do a thing. And by the way, anybody who is probably listening to this podcast or has paid attention to the journey, like, went from an inbound zero HubSpot zero to HubSpot hero to podcaster to video creator to YouTuber to like, marketing to sales to sales to service to service to operations like designer developer, like, it's nothing but pivoting and transit, transitioning. And again, I go back to this. First of all, the mentality, it doesn't have to be hard. We're telling ourselves a story that has to be difficult, and living a life where we're preparing for it, looking for it, and embracing it when it comes.

I love a lot of what you said there. What's interesting to me when I think about the answer to my own question of why we perceive change as so disruptive. I mean, humans, we're hardwired not only to constantly seek out threats everywhere because there's that little caveman that lives inside of us that's like, but what if we. Lionstigosaurus. Yeah, I'd like to. Not that. Not have bears.

Yeah.

We're also like a path of least resistance kind of people. We're in. We're inherently lazy, and we're programmed to be that way. But one of the things that actually got me through this year, eventually, after kind of months of ingraining it in my head, is this idea that feelings aren't facts. And this is where I started to.

Notice an interesting pattern that was actually. Yeah, look at that. Look at that. I started saying to myself, feelings aren't facts. And it's something that's been reinforced by a book that I'm actually currently reading called the Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, who's a big modern, stoic thinker.

And it talks about the fact that.

There'S a big distinct difference when we.

Look at perceived obstacles.

Now, obstacles in this case can be again of the negative persuasion and unexpected disruption. They can even be positive because an obstacle forces you. There's a difference, however, between objective assessment and our perception of a situation. And often our perceptions are informed by our fifis. And our fifis are trying to keep us from being eaten or we're scared, or it's all those little stories that we tell ourselves about a situation that prevent us from doing three key things that Ryan Holiday talks about in this book. And this is from Marcus Aurelius, who is a former Roman emperor, that whenever you deal with an obstacle, there are three things you need to do. You need to look at it with an objective judgment. You need to take unselfish action, which.

Means it doesn't matter how you feel about a situation.

It doesn't change the facts and it doesn't change what necessary actions need to occur. And then the third thing which is the most important is a willing acceptance of the facts and what must be done. And quote, according to Marcus Aurelius, those are the only things that you really need. And so it's not always easy. But when I think about the idea of why is change hard? It's because of that kind of weird fight or flight response, that, that rush of adrenaline, that kind of freeze moment of like, I wasn't expecting this. And then we hyper focus on the feelings. We hyper focus on removing and. And treating the feelings as opposed to acting in an inspired and purposeful way with the actions that we need to take it.

It's interesting, Liz. My brain goes and God, I'm. I'm praying right now that I don't get hate mail, but I'm gonna share it because my, my just. It's the way I'm built. I wonder if part of the problem isn't because for many of us, our default state is a state of selfishness. Like, yes, fight or flight, but also what can. What's in. Let's listen. We've heard Brian and Dharmesh, both from the stage, probably say the what's in it for me, right? Sometime in the inbound stages. And our perception is from a perception of what did you do to me. What did you do to the journey? Like, went from an inbound zero HubSpot zero to HubSpot hero to podcaster to video creator to YouTuber to like, marketing to sales to sales to service to service to operations like designer developer. Like, it's nothing but pivoting and transit transitioning. And again, I go back to this. First of all, the mentality. It doesn't have to be hard. We're telling ourselves a story that has to be difficult and. And living a life where we're preparing for it, looking for it, and embracing it when it comes.

I love a lot of what you said there. What's interesting to me when I think about. When I think about the answer to my own question of why we perceive change as so disruptive. I mean, humans, we're hardwired not only to constantly seek out threats everywhere because there's that little caveman that lives in Sandoz, but what if we lie? A stegosaurus. Yeah, I'd like to. Not that. Not have bears.

Yeah.

We're also like a path of least resistance kind of people we're in. We're inherently lazy and we're programmed to be that way. But one of the things that actually got me through this year, eventually, after kind of months of ingraining it in my head, is this idea that feelings aren't facts. And this is where I started to.

Notice an interesting pattern that was actually. Yeah, look at that. Look at that. I started saying to myself, feelings aren't facts. And it's something that's been reinforced by a book that I'm actually currently reading called the Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, who's a big modern, stoic thinker.

And it talks about the fact that.

There'S a big distinct difference when we.

Look at perceived obstacles.

Now, obstacles in this case can be, again, of the negative persuasion and unexpected disruption. They can even be positive because an.

Obstacle forces you to stop, reevaluate, and then move forward in a different direction.

Right. There's a difference, however, between objective assessment.

And our perception of a situation.

And often our perceptions are informed by our fifi. And our fifis are trying to get us, keep us from being eaten, or we're scared, or it's all those little stories that we tell ourselves about a situation that prevent us from doing three key things that Ryan Holiday talks about in this book, and this is from Marcus Aurelius, who was a former Roman emperor, that whenever you deal with an obstacle, there are three things you need to do. You need to look at it with an objective judgment. You need to take unselfish action, which.

Means it doesn't matter how you feel about a situation.

It doesn't change the facts and it doesn't change what necessary actions need to occur. And then the third thing which is the most important is a willing acceptance of the facts and what must be done. And quote, according to Marcus Aerillis, those are the only things that you really need. And so it's not always easy. But when I think about the idea of why is change hard? It's because of that kind of weird fight or flight response that, that rush of adrenaline, that kind of freeze moment of like I wasn't expecting this. And then we hyper focus on the feelings, we hyper focus on removing and, and treating the feelings as opposed to acting in an inspired and purposeful way with the actions that we need to take it.

It's interesting, Liz. My brain goes and God, I'm, I'm praying right now that I don't get hate mail, but I'm gonna share it because my just it's the way I'm built. I wonder if part of the problem isn't because for many of us our default state is a state of selfishness like yes, fight or flight, but also what can. What's in. Let's listen. We've heard Brian and Dharmesh, both from the stage probably say the what's in it for me? Right. Sometime in the inbound stages we've, we all think like what's in it for me? We, we come, we show up and our perception is from a perception of what did you do to me? What did you do for me? Like what can I get out of it? And I often wonder because one of the pieces was this like unselfish acceptance of the net. Right? Listen, it's hard to do inbound properly if you're a selfish human being.

Yeah, I, I agree with that. And that's one of the reasons why I, I really liked that approach is that unselfish in a way is probably the most radical act of self care we can do. So the, the unselfish action, right? Doing the thing that needs to be done instead of focusing on self preservation, addressing the, the uncomfortable feelings. And again, I understand that these things all sound great in practice and are great in theory and are challenging. You know, let's not talk about how many times had to sit. Liz had to sit with her head in her hands this summer.

Go.

Feelings aren't facts. Now go to your damn meeting. Like move. Do something literally do Anything but like. The reason why I consider it to be the most selfless act and the most radical act of self care is that ultimately when you act on facts rather than your feelings, it makes it much more easy to move forward. You're not stuck. You pull yourself out of the mud. It's the irony is that when you.

Move from a to a place of unselfishness, you actually end up taking care of yourself a lot better than you.

Probably thought you would.

Facts. Facts.

So let's start digging a little bit.

More into the inbound and HubSpot ecosystem.

Yeah, I don't want to get too.

Specific with them just yet, but I want to start with one of our favorite topics here, which is mindset. So when we think about inbound practitioners specifically, not just the humans, inbound practitioners explicitly, what are the key mindsets that they need to proactively embrace going into 2024 before changes strike in terms of how they think about and deal with the unexpected?

Yeah, listen up. Ready? I'm gonna give that again. Listen up, humans. Like, I would read any book, I would listen to any podcast, I would watch any video that pertains to the topics I'm about to list out. I think fundamentally they are the inbound keys to success and parts that I've built into myself and I've tried to recreate in those that I've helped with HubSpot over the years. Okay, so get your pen and paper ready because again, podcast, book, video, whatever, here are some things that I'm going to throw out at you. 1. Agility and flexibility. Okay, listen, can you imagine if it was a boxing match? Let's say it's, I don't know, Muhammad Ali. And he just came like straight at you, arms down, like, like a dinosaur with, like, tiny, like T. Rex arms. You're going to get punched in the face. Not agile, not flexible, not moving around, not dancing, not prepared to pivot or change. Okay, agility, flexibility. Next one. Continuous learning and curiosity. Listen, I love that my spirit animal is Curious George. I have a Curious George stuffed animal. I think about Curious George. I try to stay curious. I'm always trying to have that growth mindset, learn something new, do something new. I referenced it earlier in this podcast. Freaking A. I didn't know how to podcast. I didn't know how to edit videos. I didn't know how to be good on camera. I didn't know jack squiddly squat about HubSpot or freaking inbound marketing or marketing automation or any of it. But I had this desire of Continuous learning and curiosity of how far I could take it if I actually understood it. Innovate or innovation and creativity. These are keys that I would put in there. How can I always be trying to make something just a little bit better than it was? I need to innovate on that. I need to innovate. By the way, when's the last time you innovated on yourself? Good God. Anyway, being creative and having creativity is like the Life Fuel campaign offers email copy, like whatever, like be creative. I'm going to bring up the humans. Customer centric thinking. How do you actually have customer centric thinking in your employees, in you, in your company? And then here's the thing that you got to understand about inbound HubSpot. The ecosystem. It's about long term thinking, not short term wins. Therefore it is based in freaking strategic whatever you want to call it, right? So if I. If I give this to you again, books, podcasts, videos, whatever you can find, just start googling tonight. Agility, flexibility, continuous learning and curiosity. Innovation, creativity, customer centric thinking and strategic long term growth. That's what you should be paying attention to.

Can we give a shout out to Chad and the live audience who took your little list and gave us a brand new word called flex? Agility.

I love that. I love that.

I also want to.

It's right next to automagical.

Now I know. I want to also shout out Chad for this great little nugget piggybacking off of something you said earlier, George. Quote, Chad says a natural human condition is that your internal reality becomes your external reality. What you have vision for or what you play in your mind or focus.

Now I know.

I want to also shout out Chad for this great little nugget piggybacking off of something you said earlier, George. Quote, Chad says a natural human condition is that you're in Cassandra. Those winning scenarios become your reality because you're flooding your internal reality with those winning scenarios. Without vision, people perish. The same principle applies to positive attitudes versus negative attitudes. Damn, Chad.

Preach. Chad is preaching in the chat pane. I'm just gonna throw that out here.

Do we all just get to go home now? Is Chad clock out? Chad, do you want.

We're done.

He's the new host of Hub Heroes podcast from today.

You don't need to be here anymore. He probably follows directions better, George. Speaking of which, Devin, what about you?

Ouch.

Freaking ouch.

That.

That actually hurt a little bit.

Are you kidding me? I literally started this episode by cutting off the introduction music while I Was mid robot hyping myself up, going, look, see, teacher, I broke a rule.

So, yeah, I guess.

I love you, George. I love you, George.

Wow.

Yeah, sure.

Well.

Just everything that you think you know is probably going to be close to obsolete or obsolete by this time next year. Like, you look at 2023 and the impact AI has had on 2023. You look at the impact AI has had on HubSpot and the way we do inbound and just the way people are marketing in general. Just in 12 months, and it's like we have. We have gone so far in 12 months. Imagine what the next 12 months is going to look like. And the thing is that you. You can't get comfortable with your technologies, with your methodology. You got to be ready to adapt and go with where the change leads. You don't want to be. You don't. One, you don't want to be behind. But two, you really don't want to be a Luddite. You don't want to be the typewriter manufacturer who's shaking their fist at the word processor. You don't want to be the. You don't want to be a Luddite. You don't want to be the typewriter manufacturer who's shaking the horse regulate or horse regular who is shaking their fist at the Model T. You want to, you know, go with where the technology and their fist at the word processor. You don't want to be the. Everything is taking you.

I love that. Don't be the horse wrangler shaking your fist forward. That's freaking amazing. So, okay, admittedly, none of us can predict the future, and we've already started dabbling into this conversation about feelings versus facts, et cetera. But how can we program ourselves to anticipate change in a healthy way, even if. If we don't know what it is without lapsing into catastrophic or fatalistic thinking? And I'm actually going to start here because one of my favorite tried and true ways to navigate change is to understand that kind of change is the norm. Which means what you need to focus on are the things like we were talking about earlier, George, the things that you can control. And one of the things that you can control and make sure that you have clear documentation and organizational understanding around are your processes. So what are your systems? What are your profit processes?

What are the things that support the.

People and platforms and processes that help you keep running? Because usually that's where I see things.

Start to fall down.

Because sometimes change is a happy one. Like, for example, someone on Your team, who is absolutely critical, goes into labor early, but all of the processes live.

In their head because you have a.

Quote, agile organization who doesn't want to get tied up in processes. So you never created a wiki or wrote anything down.

Like that's where I think sometimes change becomes a true problem. It's not necessarily the change itself, it's the fact that the true problem, it's not necessarily the change itself. It's the fact that the ecosystem in which the change is being introduced is not fortified, is not stabilized, is not documented. You have a bunch of people who are quote unquote, working together, who all have a different idea in their head about how a bill becomes a law across your entire organization. And that's where I think things start going awry. Ecosystem in which the change is being introduced is not fortified, is not stabilized, is not documented. You have a bunch of people who are quote, unquote, working together who all have a different idea in their head about how a bill becomes a law across your entire organization. And that's where I think things start going awry.

I think the other thing too is when you see organizations, George, and I'm sure you I think the other thing too is when you see organizations, George, and I'm sure you've seen this as well, where they talk a big game about wanting professional development and education for their employees. But education and learning is not a mindset that is native to the company culture. And when you have a static mindset where you're not constantly learning, that means you aren't training your people to constantly be excited, evolving you, they, they will become terrified of anything new that comes along. Because if you don't make it easy or create space for that type of organizational education to occur, the big feeling that they're going to have is annoyance. They're going to feel like maybe it's it's adopting a new technology or making a change. If they don't have seen this as well, where they talk a big game about wanting professional to have time or aren't empowered to go learn, learn things, they will view that element and education for their employees. But education and learning is not a mindset that is native to the company culture. And when you have a static mindset where you're not constantly learning, that means you aren't training your people to constantly be evolving as something that is incredibly negative because it takes them away from their billable hours, it takes them away from the things that they're quote, unquote supposed to be doing or the things that they're graded on on their scorecard. So those are just a couple of my thoughts right off the top of my head. George, what about you?

Yeah, I. I love this conversation. And it's funny, Liz, because I just kind of try to simplify this.

You.

They. They will become terrified of anything new that comes along. Because.

Because I think if we simplify it, then, then people kind of get it. And while you can't predict the future, you can open your eyes to what's happening around you. And what I mean by that is that sometimes it's.

If you don't make it easy or create space for that type of organizational.

Education, okay for you to take your blinders off, it's okay for you to pay attention to what's happening around you. And when you take the blinders off, when you take the blinders off and you're paying attention to what's happening around you, you can actually start to do what is like measuring to occur.

The big feeling that they're going to have is annoyance. They're going to feel like maybe it's adopting a new technology or making a change. If they don't have time or aren't empowered to go learn, learn things, they will view that as something that is incredibly negative because it takes them away from their billable hours. It takes them away from the things that they're, quote, unquote, supposed to be doing or the things that they're graded on on their scorecard. So those are just a couple of my thoughts right off the top of my head. George, what about you?

Yeah, I. I love this conversation. And it's funny, Liz, because I just kind of try to simplify this.

Because.

I think if we simplify it, then, then people kind of get it. And while you can't predict the future, you can open your eyes to what's happening around you. And what I mean by that is that sometimes it's okay for you to take your blinders off. It's okay for you to pay attention to what's happening around you. You. And when you take the blinders off, when you take the blinders off and you're paying attention to what's happening around you, you can actually start to do what is like measuring the moment. Right? Man, there seems to be a lot of people talking about podcasting. There seems to be a lot of people talking about how this is the year of video. That's a little bit of a joke, but not really, man. AI seems to be a thing. Although then you can go into times like oh, everybody says I should buy this mini disc player because it's the coolest new technology that's not going to be here in about six months. Right? Like, but you're measuring. Devin knows what I'm talking about. The mini disc player. Thank God I bought one of those too. Anyway, the point is you can measure the moment and then because we've taken our blinders off, we've paid attention, we've actually measured the moment. The next thing that I try to do is give us the ability to actually prepare to play. Okay, now you got to pay attention. Lean in just a little bit. Be prepared to play. Listen, some of you might remember a platform called Blab. It was one of the first platforms that came out that was about kind of like this group video chatting like thing that was happening. Did it become the place to be? No. Was it a great testing ground and a place to play? Yes. Start to think about things like anchor when it came out or you know, different out. Like different things have come out. Vine. Holy crap. The precursor to tick tock. Where did they become the thing that everybody stuck around and stayed at? No, but those who were prepared to play were preparing for performance in the future on the thing that would actually stick. Right. And so then where I go from that is once you've actually played and you've practiced and that equals perfection and permanence, then all of a sudden you can measure the momentum of you playing. And if you continue that or not so paying attention, measuring the moment or movement that's happening in the culture, prepare to play with whatever it is that's going on and then measure was their momentum gained from me taking time to play and should I now double down and it be part of my legitimate strategy as I move forward? It's pretty simple. If you just break it down to those little steps that you're paying attention to.

That's fantastic.

Devin, what about you?

I'm still thinking about the mini disc player. Like that took me back. That was supposed to be a game changing technology. I remember that in movies hackers were busting out mini discs in order to save the world from the nuclear launch and all that. It was crazy. But yeah, I would take a step back and say, don't get caught up in the pity party. That's one that I think derails people more than they give it credit for is getting stuck in the woe is me and getting stuck in the why me and trying to find catharsis in the the bottom of a wine glass or the bottom of A cocktail and just feeling sad. And yeah, it feels good to get that out, sure. But it's not going to solve your problem sitting here talking about how horrible this situation is and how messed up everything is. It is. But in not to negate what anyone is going through. Not to say that what people are feeling is not impactful, but thing is that everyone's going through something impactful. Everyone is struggling. Yes, some people are struggling harder than others. My life, a significant portion of my life sucked this year. But I can walk down the street and point to six people who had it way worse than I did. That doesn't mean that my life doesn't suck in relation to everything that I'm going on. But what it doesn't do is give me the excuse to wallow and become stagnant because of my feelings. The only way to get through something is to get up and get through it. You can't get through something by sitting still. So you can't just sit and have a pity party. And that's one of the things I love that you were saying earlier, Liz, that you were telling yourself, get up and do something, you got to get up and do. There have been plenty of times in the past few weeks where I've had to tell myself, okay, you gotta get up, you gotta like, yes, your bed is comfortable, at least bring the laptop into it and do something. And yeah, you can't just sit and be sad. Just stop sitting and being sad and feeling sorry for yourself. Rub some dirt on it and gets to moving.

You know, I'm gonna be honest, Devin, you dropped a lot of incredible bites of wisdom there. The one thing I will say though, that I found incredibly hurtful is the realization, thanks to you, by the way, that a 12 ounce can of Coors Banquet isn't going to solve any of my problems. So that's kind of a disappointment.

Coors Banquet, she's a classy lady.

She is a classy lady.

That's right.

Have you met me? I'm all class. So let's talk about HubSpot and inbound specifically. Yeah, there are a lot of changes that happen now. Sometimes feeling like on a daily basis or like literally new hubs or massive changes will just pop out of nowhere and that can feel a bit overwhelming. George, how would you recommend our listeners? How do they keep up with that? How do they keep that overwhelm at bay while also still remaining agile and open enough and aware of what's going on?

God, I wish I had a good answer to that one. No I mean, fantastic. Listen, you can only do what you can do. And having the understanding of you, you've given it your best and you're at least attempting or trying. Because let's be honest, the amount of product updates and the changes that have been happening, even to the methodology and the trainings is a metric butt ton. Like, a metric butt ton. And it's funny because Devin mentioned technology and methodology. Right. A little bit ago in. In one of his things. And, you know, you have to ask yourself, are you paying attention to product updates? Is that a daily thing that you're going in and looking at, by the way?

It's.

That's a piece that I teach during the Super Admin workshop that we do. Bus bootcamp. Sorry, Super Admin Bootcamp that we do through the HubSpot Academy is like, listen, make it a daily practice to go in and look at the product updates. A. For the product updates and the education to what those updates mean, because each one of those updates means you could do business just a little bit differently than you did the day before, but also to go in there because you can look for the product betas, because now you can get into a beta that allows the tool to do something it once couldn't do, that maybe somebody in your team was asking for. And now all of a sudden, you're a HubSpot superhero because you're actually freaking paying attention. Remember, take the blinders off thing that I said? Anyway, you're paying attention to products, updates, and betas. By the way, if you've gone through the HubSpot Academy ecosystem and you're a fan and you got your certifications, and now you're like, I got my certifications. I know what I'm. I'm just gonna leave HubSpot Academy on the shelf. You're doing yourself a disservice. I myself, who have been doing this for almost 12 years at this point, went to research the marketing certification marketing software. I know it like the freaking back of my hand, but I'm like, you know what? A master is always a pupil. Go hit play, watch the videos and see what you can learn. It's completely freaking different. Like, it's different instructors saying different things. And so I immediately was like, oh, crap. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people out there who feel like they check the to do box on certifications, are not revisiting them, are reliving, you know, five, four, three, two years ago methodology in their business, thinking they're cutting edge, and they're no longer cutting edge because They're.

It's.

It's become shelf help. Right. HubSpot Academy. The thing that was great about it, the moment. Right, Man. There seems to be. Was. It was. It was inbound self help. But if it's turned into shelf help, meaning it's in your portal but you're not looking at it, then you're doing yourself a disservice. So again, product updates, product betas, and get back in that HubSpot Academy and look at what they've done redone or heck, let me not even mention the new certifications that have been launched. By the way, I gotta give Jorge Fuentes on my team a shout out. Homeboy just reached certification number 43, which makes it officially one more than I've ever achieved in my hubs. Like, Jorge, holy crap, dude.

Remember when 13 was the move? Remember, 13 meant you were, like, the best in the world. You're the bomber.

Let's go. Let's go back even further. When I first started at Quintain Marketing, which was a HubSpot agency back in the day In Annapolis in 2014, there were five certifications, and three of us got all five of them. And John Booth, one of the owners, made us little HubSpot certification tiaras with five stars for each of the certifications.

Yeah.

Yeah. Meanwhile, Jorge's out here making us all look bad. Thanks, buddy. We really appreciate you. Good job.

Yeah, no, I'm. I'm like. I mean, I was ex.

As.

As a. As a boss who invests in the humans in the room, I was excited. As a guy who is very. Do I say this in public? I don't know if I say this. I'm very competitive.

Very.

My family will not play Monopoly with me. I am very competitive. And I saw that 43. In a rush of emotions, good, bad, and ugly ran through my body of like, how do I get in front of a computer and watch a whole bunch of videos real quick right now? Like, I can't be losing. Anyway, congratulations, Jorge. You're amazing.

You did it. And George is, like, super happy for you.

I am.

Totally. I know. I am. I know. Devin, what about you? Would you add anything to that for HubSpot or inbound specifically?

Absolutely. Two things. One, HubSpot YouTube channel. Some fantastic content goes out. I should know. I'm one of the people that creates them. So if you haven't already, go on the HubSpot YouTube channel. Check that stuff out. And then Kyle Jepsen, HubSpot tips and tricks. Just look up HubSpot tips and tricks. On any of your favorite social media platforms, you'll find them there, especially LinkedIn. He has some great tutorials on some of the. On broad topics, but also some of the niche topics. But those are two of my favorite places to stay on top of what's going on. So just to recap, if you weren't writing It down, the YouTube channel for HubSpot and HubSpot tips and tricks.

Okay, and now Devin made me think of another one. If you haven't searched for the HubSpot Super Admin YouTube channel, that's another go to resource. If you've been in the game for a while and you think you know everything and all of a sudden you want to get your butt handed to you, go watch some of those. They're lengthy, 30, 45 minutes, but holy crap, we're talking about the inner depths of like, reporting. And like, it was the first mover information on the help desk was one of the super admin hug things. So like, add that one into the mix too. We'll put it all in the show notes. By the way, if you left your pencil at home today, I freaking love that.

Okay, so let's look specifically at third party platforms that aren't HubSpot.

So the ones that we find ourselves relying upon, right. Like I think a term that gets thrown a lot around a lot is rented land.

So like your Facebooks, your Instagrams, tools like chat, gbt.

How do you walk that fine line of still looking to them as core parts of your strategy without being too wedded to them? Because, George, you and I had a very interesting conversation earlier this week about sometimes, I think inbound practitioners, marketers, business leaders, get a little bit hazy on what it is they actually own versus.

What they don't own.

Yeah.

So, George, let's start with you.

Yeah, man, here's the deal. Like, and it's weird to me that we run into this scenario somewhat because, like, if we take this out of the digital sphere and all of that for a hot second second, a carpenter, hammer tool, saw tool, like level tool, measuring tape tool, not married to any of the tools because the tools are actually what help him or her create the house or the garage or the shed, depending on how big the project, but they're not married to the tools that are helping them create the thing. They're married to the thing that they're actually creating. Makes perfect sense. The lack of understanding that Facebook is a freaking tool, that LinkedIn is a tool, that Twitter or X is a tool, it. It amazes me like where is your house? Where's your shed? What is it that you truly need to be married to, by the way? That's probably your CRM contact list with all the humans that actually are in it. That might be the community that you're building because you're paying attention when you're realizing people, humans, we want a place to belong. And if you create a place that they love you and love the place that, that they're going to come there and belong there. Like realizing that all things point back to the home, the shed, the garage, whatever it is for you right now. If you think about your business, if you think about your brand, what are all things pointing back to right now? I'm curious, where is it? How much could it change? Could it just explode? Could it disappear? Whatever it is, God, I hope you have control over it. And not control in like the evil word control, but control of like I can make it awesome or I can keep it from not sucking like that. That just fundamental control of wherever it is that everything leads back to. The things are tools, ladies and gentlemen. Be married to the right thing. That's almost.

I would even take it a step further. And you have to remember guys, as much as these tools design themselves or provide opportunities for small businesses and marketing leaders and all these folks to bring content to those spaces, ultimately these are shareholder run companies where they are trying to drive revenue. The businesses that use these platforms, we are not the priority. The priority is the ad dollars that they are able to generate and the advertisers and the shareholders who are looking at stock prices and stock prices right now for most places are not pretty or at the very least they're volatile. A lot of people are really anxious right now. So we have to remember that like, you know, we've watched it over the past decade. George is George or as Georgia as. Google has made tons of changes. Facebook has made tons of changes. Instagram got bought in the past, what, 15 years by Facebook, which I know a lot of people didn't like. We've watched tools vanish overnight, vine walked, so Tick tock could run. But who knows what will actually be here in the next 10 years. And if the big players are still here, what are they going to look like? Our news feeds are constantly changing all the time as consumers. I recently filled out an Instagram survey because I was quote unquote randomly selected. And I said I see more ads and suggested content than people I follow than ever before. And it is infuriating. It is becoming harder to get organic eyes on on your stuff. And that's going to continue. This is. There are so many things where it's a pay to play game. So, George, I love that, that, that.

Idea because I think, you know, control can sometimes have a negative spin. But the reality is, is that we need to keep our eyes on the prize. It's that serenity prayer again. What do you actually have control over? Or going back to earlier, is your energy spent, well, complaining and raging against the Facebook machine or coming up with a better strategy?

Rage against the machine. Well played. Well played.

You're welcome. Testify.

Yeah, thank you.

Devin, what about you? Any thoughts here?

Yeah, don't go back to MySpace. Basically, it's like, have you ever seen the videos, the graphs that change over time showing what the most popular websites were over a period of time? And you just see like at one, at one point, AOL.com was the most visited website on the planet. It. Things change. And if people are interested in what you got going on, if you have a community, they're going to go with you wherever you go. And all you need to do is just make sure that you are where they're looking for you.

I love that.

Yeah.

All right, final question, gentlemen, as we look ahead to this 2024.

In our first episode, dropping in 2024, if you could give our listeners one piece of advice about navigating the unexpected, what would it be and why?

I can go first, if you gentlemen would like.

I'm sorry, I was talking to a five year old, but yeah, no, the one piece of advice that I would give is lead with integrity. Lead. Just go through. I challenge listeners to go through 2024 with integrity. And if you want to do it on hard Mode, go through 2024 without telling a single lie, both professionally and personally. Try that one on for size. That's been me for the past 10 years. And sometimes are harder than others, but lead with the most integrity that you can. Because the first step to not lying is not doing anything that you'd want to lie about up or that you would feel the need to cover up. So try, try that. Try living with integrity.

George, that's some fire right there. Yeah, that's spicy. When I heard the. When I heard Devin say that, I. My brain flew back to this morning and another recording that we did for a different podcast, the word intention, like be intentional about the things that you're doing. But that's not where I'm gonna go. If you want to hear that, you can just go over to beyond your default podcast and listen to the episode that we did for that. But I'm gonna start this section and sort of end this section. You'll go, Liz. But I'm saying my thoughts are encapsulated with two different quotes. Okay, so the first one is, I don't know, Socrates, you know?

Anyway, so Crates Johnson.

Yeah, yeah. There you go.

For our Bill and Ted fans out there.

There we go. The secret of change is to focus all of your energy not on fighting the old, but on building the new. Okay, So I have two questions for you. In 2024, what are you gonna stop fighting? And in 2024, what are you gonna build that is new? Only you can answer that. But what are you gonna stop fighting that you've been fighting? Like, when I think about this and go a little bit deeper, what freedom will you give yourself that you've kept locked away because of historical baggage or beliefs?

Let me say that literally writing this question right now.

Let me. Let me say that in. In the. For the people in the back row, what will you stop fighting? What will you build that's new? And what freedom will you give yourself that you've kept locked away because of historical baggage or beliefs? Now, the other quote, the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, you say that in. For the people in the back row, what will you stop fighting? What will you build that's new? And what freedom will you give yourself that you've kept locked away because of historical baggage or beliefs? Now, the other quote are the ones who do. That's Steve Jobs. My hope, my prayer for all of the hub hero listeners is that you just get a little crazy in 2024. Just get a little crazy and believe that you can change the world. Just get a little crazy and have human centric marketing and a human centric business. Get a little crazy and believe in yourself and ask yourself, is it possible? What do I need to stop fighting? What do I need to start building?

I don't have any Socrates quotes. So this one just goes out to all my inbound hoes and all of a wide variety of area codes. Holy crap, George, did you just spit water out?

It was real close, but then I saw my. My board here, and I was like, I'm not gonna spit water on the mixing board. That would be a bad day.

So this goes out to all you cupcakes out there rocking the inbound train. My only piece of advice to you is to. This change is a feature, not a bug. When you should actually be worried is when there is no Change when your predictions are always right. No one's that good. Change is a constant change. Build yourself that way. Fortify your organization. Keep learning. Encourage your people to learn. Change like Thanos, that big purple thumb of a. Of a alien creature is inevitable. All right, nice. That's what I got.

Nice call back to any games. You know, we could end it right here. However, I can't. Liz. Hopefully you've got a little bit of now.

It's inevitable. All right, nice. That's what I got.

Nice call back to any games.

Cultural.

But I have to. Actually, Devin, I have to kick back to something you said real quick. You said, don't be the horse wrangler shaking a fist at the Model T. And for all of you that are listening to this podcast, I apologize because, well, you'll have to go to the show notes. But, Devin, when you said that, I immediately wanted to see a visual of that.

That.

So if you're watching. If you're watching this, if this episode you're gonna see on the screen, I'm gonna literally put on the screen. Noah's gonna edit the video version that I. I went to Dolly 2, and this was the masterpiece that I created of the horse wrangler shaking his fist at the Model T Ford. So. So we'll put it in the show notes. You can go watch it in the video@community.hubheroes.com we live in wonderful times. We live in the years that give us tools, that give us powers that we never had before. Embrace it. Go with it, Liz. Kick us out of here.

Well, I mean, I gotta be perfectly honest. I think that's a fabulous way to end it. That is a beautiful piece of art. But here's what I will say. Happy New Year, homies. We're so glad you're here. We're excited for another, what, 50, 52 weeks of hub heroes goodness. Thank you for being with us in this journey. And if you ever want to join a live recording, hang out with us. Talk in real time, see what happens.

Behind the scenes because some stuff gets edited out.

Join us at community.hubheroes.com and don't forget.

To leave a review of us on your favorite podcast provider. It helps us get found, and we love being told how pretty we are.

Oh, yes. Yeah.