How to Unlock Hidden Revenue for Clients with a Non-Traditional Agency Model with Tristan Ruml
Tristan Ruml explains how he rebuilt an agency around client revenue instead of traditional service offerings. He walks through real client wins and the sales process changes that made them possible, offering a blueprint for agencies looking to unlock hidden revenue streams.
Alright guys, welcome back to Agency Journey. This is Andrew and today I'm so excited to be joined by Tristan Rummel from Tortuga. Little background on Tristan. Tristan was on our team. For those of you who've been following Zenpilot and Dunebound for a while, Tristan was on our team while we were doing Bound. And then kind of through our transition we had to let Tristan go. And that was one of the hardest things we've ever done as a business because Tristan, we've been friends for 10.
Years, eight years like that.
Long, long time. And so this podcast is kind of a story of what did Tristan do at that point and how did he set out, test out new ideas, rebuild an agency from essentially nothing. I said, Tristan, can you kick things off and kind of give people 90 second background on your skill set, like where you come from and how you got to where you are right now?
Yeah, absolutely. So my background was originally I worked at an agency about five years ago when I, I got out of school, worked in an agency there, struck up on my own, figured out that way while I was running my agency. Also purchased equity and ran an apparel company in there too. So I did that cash out of that business. Still was doing the agency. I always had clients on the side. Got connected with Andrew again after a couple years, started working with Do Inbound. Then things kind of went south to Do Inbound there for a bit. And so, so then that was probably nine months ago now. So nine months ago. So I did this background. I've been working with clients, stuff like that. So I kind of left and I just kind of had this moment of I got to figure out how to put the pieces together because I realized I didn't. The agency I was trying to build didn't really make sense. I didn't really enjoy what I was doing. I just kind of looked ahead at what was going on in the market and where my biggest wins were with clients. And I just started going to networking events and talked to several hundred business owners, just pitching them on different things to see what really resonated. Yeah, I was like an addict for about three months because I just need to get first of all because I needed clients, but also because, but also just because I wanted to figure out like I just had to get them that process. I know I'm going to start saying the phrases are going to start resonating with people and they're gonna be like, yeah, I'm interested in that. Because I realized my highest value was not necessarily that a traditional agency model Was more breaking down a business, finding assets, marketing assets and opportunities, and then leveraging them, so creating, like, real quick wins for a business. So that was usually my quick wins were like my biggest wins, where it wasn't necessarily, you know, like an SEO campaign. It was more, oh, I'm gonna help you put these pieces together in your sales process. And, oh, okay, here. We've made a ton more money trying to figure that out and just realizing, like, is this even a business? Not traditional agency model in any kind of way whatsoever? And they just kept push pressing with it, though, because you start finding that once the market, if you find the market needs something, you can build the business around it. That's really what I had to get out of this mindset of, like, an agency needs to look like it does SEO or it needs to look like it does print ads and realize, like, no, I can build an agency implementing and putting these pieces together for businesses to generate more money for them. And there's always gonna be people, they're gonna pay you if you can make them more money. So once a guy and then they just getting that message dialed in has been, like, one of the big things for me. So I've been. I really got that kind of dialed in around July, August. Been rolling with that ever since, and absolutely loving it. Got some great content, getting some awesome results. So it's been a ton of fun.
That's cool. So let's talk about some of those results. What is, like, a recent win or kind of some asset that you've discovered or something found with a client that you could highlight that you've learned from or like a process you've implemented?
Yeah. So two that I got, two that I'm just really super proud of right now. Like, I love my clients. That's like, all props to them because you can only figure out what's going on once you understand the business owner and, like, their mindset. So one of them was an agency owner. She ran a social media agency. And I met her in April at an event, One of the hundreds of events I went to. I met her there. I was like, I need to figure out who the social media party people are. And back in where I live in Columbus, Ohio. So we got connected. We were talking, and then all of a sudden, we kind of got. The relationship got a little bit better, and she's like, well, I'm actually shutting everything down. Like, I'm done. I'm gonna go get a job. I can't do this anymore. I'm so stressed out. I'm so burned out. It was like she'd been doing this for two years. She's like, on the outside, everyone thinks I'm like killing it, but I'm crushed. I'm like all these things. I was like, well, I guess I'm a therapist now too. I just kind of took a step back. I kind of told her what I had been doing, how I had been transitioning and paying attention. What does the market actually want? Instead of getting this framework of. It has to look like this. Like I need to build an agency that looks like what HubSpot told me to build, understand what the market actually wants, to find the messaging to make it happen. And so her and I had like a. We had one session together and we bracely broke down her entire business of what she had been doing, all her past client experiences, what had worked, what hadn't worked. So then we start tweaking things and I started trying out different verbiage or putting it together. What were her biggest wins with past clients? And her biggest wins with past clients was actually fixing the cultures. So she started doing a lot of the. She started doing a lot of work with these organizations down in Texas. And there had been. It was like a urgent care facility. And so there was a lot she was doing. They were helping with reviews because she was like review management, like review marketing, stuff like that. She's seeing all these problems with reviews. And so she starts talking to the owners about, all right, how do we kind of get this stuff fixed? Like, there's a lot of disconnect going on here. And so she kind of takes that brand perspective because it's all part of the brand itself and it ties to the culture. And she went there and fixed it and then they open up more locations. But it wasn't. Once again, it was a traditional agency move. It wasn't like, oh, we did so well because of social media. It's because she came in there and fixed the core fundamental parts of the business that really just made the brand, you know, how your staff treats patients as part of the brand, how the staff treats each other and how they display themselves and how the patients talk about you. That's all part of brand. So we kind of came with this like brand culture mesh, which in our area is unheard of. But she turned around and sold it for 7,500 after one session together. So we had. We restructured it and she turned around and sold it, like right away.
That's amazing.
We spent a couple hours. Yeah. So it was super cool. To see her do that, but she has so much more confidence and. And just like, again. And just seeing, like, I'm excited about my business because she's like, this is what I'm super passionate about, is fixing these problems. And then realizing, too, like, once we got going, that these kinds of businesses do exist in places like Oliver in California. Like, there's one in the Chicago market, New York. So markets are farther ahead of where we live. So just kind of realizing that something. Just because somebody doesn't exist where you are now, like, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and there's not people paying money for it.
Yeah.
And then the next one this guy is. Met him at another networking event, too. So he runs a pavement management consulting business, which.
The thing.
That's this thing. I didn't know he. I didn't know it was a thing either. I was like, what are you talking about? So he and I kind of broke that down. So he sell it to cities, municipalities. So fixing their roads, just a B2G play, which is really annoying because you're selling to be your bureaucracies. It's hard to sell to governments. And so he and I were like, okay, let's figure this thing out. We just got to break down every piece of the business. And we restructured his offer because no one in that industry really knows how to market and all these other things too. So we really restructured his offer. I broke down every piece. We just went through. Like, this guy is a g. He's been in the industry for, like, 20 years. Yeah. He just hasn't been able to reach that next level because he couldn't put the pieces together in marketing. But he's got the energy, and he's really coachable. Like, he's all excited about it now. And so we just really put it together. And then I was talking with him. We met last Tuesday, and we put together a list. I'm like, you got to contact these people. These are the angles you're gonna use. This is the scripts you're gonna use. And I was like, we're gonna work on this together. We're start implementing and getting this stuff out there. I followed up with them like, well, how many emails did you send? He's like, it was a list of, like, 57. I sent seven emails. Like, well, okay, so what happens? Like, two people responded right away. He's like, that's 40 grand worth of business. Yeah. And then he was like, well, he's like, I can't believe this actually works. Like, once we go through the rest of this, he's like, it's gonna be multiple six figures booked out for 2019. He's like, that's unheard of. Like, I've never. That's gonna be, like, double the size of my business. And so that was really cool, though, we just taking, like, our marketing skills and realizing that, once again, it wasn't my SEO experience, it wasn't me running Facebook ads. It was really working with a business owner, breaking down what's there and then leveraging all the stuff that we leverage to generate that business. Was existing in his business already. He just needed the help tweaking and putting the pieces together to really get dramatic results. It's a lot more affordable than for a business owner than going after these other things. So those are my two big wins. Yeah. But once again, all shout out to those clients, like, they're just wonderful people.
So it's kind of like you're helping them discover what is your strength, what is your core spot, and how does that align with what your clients are actually looking for?
Exactly.
They actually need.
Yeah. And so much of it is actually just messaging, you know, because so much of it is, how do I explain this to people? And that's been something that's been difficult for me and I still struggle with. But it's really. I see this with a lot of. I think you and I have talked about this too. You see a lot of agency owners is they kind of go in there saying, like, how do you explain what you do? And it's like, well, I do Facebook ads for real estate agents. That's fine. You're telling me just kind of like a service, like, what are you actually doing? There's not really, like a positioning and messaging of, like, where the light bulb goes off for someone. Like, okay, you're unique versus the 15 other Facebook ads for real estate agents. People like your position differently, and so kind of working with these business owners and like, how do we position you against your competition? You're actually. You're going to beat the pants off them. And it's also going to align with, like, what your strengths are and putting it around what your background, your strengths, what assets you have, and, like, past experiences. So that's. That's really what it is, is figure out the way the messaging is and the positioning, and then that's really one of the biggest opportunities for a lot of businesses.
Okay, so are you, like, take the pavement management consultant. Are you, like, working with him to, like, put a sales process in place where one yeah, before. Or is it just scripts? Like what is. What are kind of the missing pieces that he didn't have before that you're helping him implement?
Yeah. So he really had no sales process. So what was one of the big problems we had too is, you know, we sit down, he's like, hey, here's a deal. He's like, I've been, you know, this is my revenue was. But I don't really have a sales process. I'm just getting leads here and there. Okay, so what do we need to do to get these things going? And so what I kind of step in is it's kind of customized in a sense too. Cause you start building out scripts. So we built our referral scripts, we turned around and implemented. We built out, we looked at his proposals. Cause that's a huge leverage point too. It's like figuring out what the proposals are. Because it's usually like an RFP type thing with municipalities, stuff like that too. So what can we do to stand out from competition?
Yeah.
And then the other thing too is one issue. This is actually one of the things we fixed in the sales process is that I'm sure, like I used to, like I had this issue too. Used to. And so I kind of figured out, I think it was one of the podcasts was a agency journey podcast where actually got it fixed, was love it. Sending out proposal and then never hearing back from someone.
Yeah.
You know, you send the proposal out, you got this, all the stuff in there. But you know, they just pretty much just looked at the number and they made their decision and they're not really. You're not able to walk through them, what happened or why you made the suggestions or you know, what the reasoning is behind the proposal you sent over to them. And so he and I sat down there, I was like, well, you haven't been getting on the phone with people. He's like, you keep sending these off. He's like, yeah. He's like, I'm so frustrated. It's like, I know I can do, like, do great work for them, but I send it off and I follow up and I follow up with them for six months and never hear back. Like, well, here's the deal. Like from now on you're just gonna. This is what we're doing. Like you, when you send it, you send it either right. Right before you get on the call. So that way you're there, like either whether it's an in person meeting or on a call to explain the value and make sure everything's Very clear. And say, okay, okay, I got that. Once again, this is all shout out to him. Cause he's a great client, gets work done. The next time he had one of those come through, he's like, okay, I'm going to follow with this. Tristan's process, he sent off, it was a local municipality. He sent off the proposal. He's like, I drove in there, they had the proposal all printed out there. We walked through it, we closed him once again too. Just being like. And that's like fixing that part of the sales process is how do we kind of connect those dots and just finding what those break points are. And you and I had a client years ago, we worked on, and the whole problem with them was that we were driving them a lot of leads. But the problem was the sales process.
No follow through. Yep, yep. What I love about this, Tristan, is the approach that you're taking puts the client at the center. And like, that's what a lot of inbound people say that they want to do, like, with their content. But the tactics can be other. You know, the tactics can just be forced on someone because that's your prescription. Where this is like leading with discovery. And it's like, what is their business? Where are the gaps? How can we fix the gaps?
Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing too. It's like for something like pavement management consulting, no one's searching for it. It's like really figuring out, like, okay, so now we. How do we do content distribution? It's like, well, it's going to be mostly like LinkedIn. We just start connecting with people and things like that too. So now we're using LinkedIn Sales Navigator as a tool because his website's fine, but it's not. It's not going to drive in the business he needs to right now. It's not a long term. What are the quick wins? And then once he has that revenue coming in, we can feel a lot more comfortable with, like, all right, now we're gonna start building out stuff that's gonna take, you know, six to 12 months to really see the results.
Gotcha. Okay. That's awesome. Those are two great wins. Got some cool processes from there.
Yeah.
From the customer. Put them at the center, like some really groundbreaking stuff. But let's move now. Like, what are some lessons learned, some things that you've tried out that haven't gone well? What's something that you can learn from that you might be able to share? Spare someone who's listening, like the journey of making the mistake themselves.
Okay. One of the biggest things that has been my problem is it kept me out of some really cool deals and just blown sales. You know, that's tough, especially when you need the money, which was like months ago. Like, you're just in that place, you're like, how do I make this happen? And for me, the big thing was like, I just keep tying it back to this was the messaging. Like, I had a really. Even now I have an easier time explaining it, but that's because I had to put a ton of work in to kind of explaining what this looks like. Because it is like non traditional, but also what the value is that can be delivered for a client. Figure out a way to tie stories in there. So there was one account that I really wanted, like, could have done really well for them. It was a B2B, like really unsexy industry. Their contracts are worth like half a million. So I'm like, it doesn't take that much to do this results for them. I really want to work with this guy. We know each other for years and. And you start putting that together. And I just couldn't explain what I did. Like, it just was one of those things too. It's like, I gotta bring this to my partner and we're gonna talk to him. And now it's going. Now you're playing telephone. And now he can't explain what the heck I do because. Yeah, and now there goes the sale. You know, there. There it goes. And just figure out, like, I gotta figure out, you know, the faster the best. I think it was like, I'm sure you guys have seen this too. Even with the rebrand, it's like, it's so important to be able to explain what you do and the value it brings to people and be able to do it succinctly. And that can take a long time figuring out what that sounds like. Because when someone says like, oh, I build websites, like, the value is not the website. Yeah, no, I do this. Like, the value is all the other stuff that comes along with that. It's gonna be like you're releasing a ton of stress on them if they got a website generating leads on autopilot, you know, stuff like that. I say like, that's like the angle you always want to lead with, but that's what the real value is. You're not just building a thing. A thing is not going to fix a business like you and your ability as a marketer is going to fix that business and deliver results. And I was so bad at this and So I just, you know, I was telling you I went to all these networking events, and the fact that I only walked away with like a handful of clients after all of that, you know, just was like a testament to how poorly I explained what I did. Just, like, figure out I had to, like, you know, well, you guys, you know, you try to put food on the table, you got bills to pay, you know, like, well, I. I can't explain what I do. I don't have a good job at succinctly explaining the value of what I do. I think another thing too, like, agencies, you know, any networking bank you go to, there's like 10 other marketing people there at every single event. So how do you differentiate in a saturated marketplace too? You know, because there's gonna be 10 other people. They're all saying, like, oh, I do, you know, social media management. How do you know that's the best? You know, business owners also be like, what's the best? Like, who do I. Who do I go with? And also, a business owner has been educated. Like, I need a social media person. But then you start uncovering that, like, the underlying problems of the business are not necessarily social media problems.
Yeah, different problems.
Yeah. And so be able to explain all this stuff to you. I just, like, I sound like an absolute moron more times I care to mention, but it was. That's definitely been. That's definitely been the biggest learning experience. And realizing that even with a lot of clients I work with too, it's a lot of. It's messaging, positioning, really fundamental marketing problems. But sometimes we just don't focus on that for ourselves.
Any tips or exercises or resources you would recommend to any agencies that are. That are sensing the need to tighten their messaging right there?
Yeah, I mean, a lot of it's just. Yeah, for me, it was. I was working with a copywriter, like a great guy, Andrew Milligan, and he and I were chatting and he started really kind of reframing things in the sense of it's about outcomes. Like, we're not just talking about, like, sometimes we do, like, feature benefits of something, like in copywriting, but also really understand, like, what the outcome is for that person. Like, what does that look like once you've kind of stepped in there and transformed things for them? So taking a step back and like, well, so for me, if I'm talking to a client, oh, we have a messaging problem, but what's the outcome? It's a messaging problem. Like, people understand what you do. You can sell better. Like, those are all like, Good. Like, those are all great. But when you start digging into that pain a little bit more. Like, so that one client that I blew the sale on, they came to me for a messaging prompt because they're like, here's the deal. Like, our contracts are worth like half a million, but we cannot explain what we do.
Yeah.
And realizing like, oh, okay, so your ability to not be able to simply explain what you do is costing you several million dollars a year.
Yeah.
So you're losing contracts. You know, people are visiting your website and navigating away because they don't understand. There's no clear clarity what you're doing. You're stuck competing with bottom feeders for, you know, income. There's no predictable cash flow. There's also what you're digging into the pain. And what is the outcome of having those problems fixed? You know, when the guy also told me, he's like, I have a hard time hiring people sometimes because I have a hard time explaining what we do. So now I have that problem there too with like retention, things like that too. And then also with what I do with my. Specifically, sometimes talking to business owners, you start realizing, like, well, when they're paying points, like, I don't really want to be paying for a bunch of overhead with an agency. How is this going to work out for me? So how do we address that concern too? Because that could be a sales objection or it's going to be, you know, is this going to be super complex or is there going to be what's it going to look like from our management perspective, things like that. So really just break it. Really taking the time to really get in the head of the business owner and the market. So it's like understanding, I mean, basic copywriting, basic marketing stuff, but just taking the time to do that and really understand what the outcomes are if they, if I fix this problem for them and what are the outcomes if I don't fix this problem for them? Like, what keeps happening? They keep saying deals they're not able to hire. They're not able to, you know, not able to grow the business they wanted to. They're, you know, they're just gonna keep racking up debt. Nothing's changing in their lives. And be able to understand that and be able to explain it once again from the sense of, I understand what the customer's going through, the potential client, and be able to explain it that way.
Yeah, that's big. You gotta understand, where are they? What's a day like in their shoes? Because if you can put Yourself in that state. Like then you can articulate kind of you start at the end and you work back from there. And so it's not them at the center of it or not you at the center of it, but it's them and what they're feeling and where they want to go. Yeah, that just helps drop everything into place. That's awesome.
And then once they get aligned with that too, you don't find those conversations about like, well, how many blog posts I get a month? Yeah, it's really like you've completely reframed the conversation where like I think this is something like we've not you and I've talked about this. Somebody's like an inherently hostile relationship between like agencies and clients. You kind of come into that place where they can tell that you living in their heads. Like Robert Collier the copywriter says, you know, you want to enter the conversation going on your prospects head. That's what you're kind of doing. And now you're at the same side of the table with them because you're like, this guy gets me and what it's costing me. But you're also positioning yourself still as like, I'm the guy that solves that for you. I'm not the here just to boss you around. I'm better than you, but I'm here, the guy that solves it for you. Let's do this together and like, let's grow your business and. And that's what a lot of clients I think business owners are really looking for now because they've kind of gone through, churned through all these different things, especially depending on the size, they've kind of churned through all these different marketing strategies and the tactics and they kind of get a little burnt out. Some of them aren't really there and then agency because like when we're now we're trying to prove results and we can't really deliver on it or you know, there's some issue here. There's a problem with the client once again, like the hostility is still there. There's all that friction. So figuring out how can we get we really be like more empathetic of what the going through but at the same time too like being respectful of what we are and what we can actually deliver and be able to articulate that.
That's huge. So now with this in place, what is something that you were like right now that's got you excited, Something that you're learning, like looking forward could be a tactic for me.
I just, I just love working My clients, honestly, like, I get. I get super excited to work with my clients. I got one. We're rolling out into. This is going to be interesting. We're going out to 800 retailers with whole Foods and Sprouts in October. Yeah. So put together that campaign, making sure everything makes sure like not too many things fall through the cracks. Work with different vendors and stuff like that. So that's going to be interesting. It's going to be fun. Once again, this client worked through like my process and now it's more of like an outsourced CMO kind of role, you know, And I think so that's. So it's a little different in that sense of what I'm working with them on, because it's like they're taking this new initiative, just kind of stepping in there. It's like we don't have time to. We don't have money to hire a full time cmo. You step in part time. I got my network and then we leverage it that way. So I'm really excited about that because it's gonna be a really good challenge. And I got a company that's trying to enter the US Market from Europe. So that's been an interesting challenge too. Just in the sense of stuff that's very obvious to us is like not obvious to like certain other parts of Europe, things like that and breaking that down. But it's also exciting to opportunity and also just work with business owners that are excited about the businesses they have again. You know, there's something fun about that. You know, I think that's. And I think as agency owners tend to be very like, they really care about their clients. It's gonna be very like empathetic people and creative people. And there's something really rewarding about that fact that you can kind of get that, get that light back in their eyes of your clients. And then you have that fun relationship where you're, you know, you send each other emails, you send each other. You know, obviously you don't give your phone number to all your clients, but certain clients become like best friends with like having those kinds of relationships and realizing like, okay, we saw the professional boundaries. But at the same time too, like, I'm just super pumped about your business. I'm excited about where it's gonna go.
Yeah, you kind of reignite that passion for them and get.
I'm always, I'm super excited about Pavement now. So who would have said.
That'S awesome, Tristan. Well, it's been so cool to watch you on this journey. I'm learning a lot from watching you. I'm sure you like. You've definitely helped a lot of people who are listening right now. If anyone wants to reach out, say hi to you, what's the best place for them to get in contact or to follow your stuff?
Yeah, for sure. LinkedIn Definitely more active there than anywhere else. And then probably Facebook. You should be an email but it's I mean eventually your inbox gets swamped so I probably won't reply as fast but if you reach me on LinkedIn or Facebook be a lot quicker. And then my website's tortugamktg.com because I couldn't buy the real domains I wanted to buy so when I email me.
Cool. Well thanks so much for coming on sharing your story here with the audience guys. Hope you got a lot out of this. Reach out to Tristan, say thank you. You have any questions, send them over his way. He's always really helpful and willing to help folks out here on their own journey. So till next week, have a go.
