HubSpot Developer Group Product and Engineering Q&A | HubSpot.Extend() 2022

Okay, it's go time. Thank you everyone for joining. I just want to give a little bit of an intro. My name is Sarah Rosso. I'm the Director of Product Marketing for Connected Platform, which includes our developers and all the folks building on the platform. I want to talk a little bit about the panel today. First of all, you've seen some forward looking statements in other sessions. Just reminding you that's also in effect this session as well. While we're waiting to get started, I would love to hear and and about the thing you're most excited so far today as I'm giving you a little bit of this feedback that'll help us kind of gauge where the questions might go. But today we're gathering a few of our HubSpot product experts to delve deeper into community questions. Some of the questions we're going to kick off with were asked earlier in other sessions and places and you'll also have a chance to submit and upvote questions right now. So if you have a question to submit, use the Q and A function to submit your question. If you're shy, you can also help by upvoting a question to get it attention. And it is best to use our time today to talk about the features and the announcements of the things we presented. And then while we won't be able to answer every question, live, some of those questions we may answer in the Q and A box directly and some we may answer in a blog post or in channels following the event. So and a big plug if you're not signed up for the HubSpot developer newsletter, do it now. We highlight all the best content from our channels and community on a monthly basis and all the content from this event will be in that as well. And I'll ask someone to drop in a link for but first we'd love for you to get to know all of our panelists and I'm going to pass it to Popcorn it to Timothy hello everybody.

My name's Tim or Timothy Finley. Pronouns he him. I am a principal software engineer at HubSpot. I've been here for a long time, 11 plus years. I've been working on the CMS and content platform for a while in the past year plus I've been working with our developer experience teams and as some of you probably saw in a panel earlier on, doing some JavaScript building blocks and JavaScript server side work and I'd love to talk with you today. Popcorn it to David

hi everyone, my name is David Adams. I'm a developer advocate, engineer at HubSpot, my pronouns are he, him. I've also been at HubSpot for a very long time, a little over 12 years at this point and helping HubSpot developers for the vast majority of that. Answering developer questions for at least 10 or so years. And I will hand it to Mark.

That was Mark. Hey everyone, my name is Mark Hazelwood. I'm a design lead on the developer product group here at HubSpot. Work on a lot of the developer experience platform. Been here for not quite as long as Dave and Tim about seven years, but I probably met some of you really excited to talk about some of the new features and answer all your questions. We go six Sejal.

Hey everyone, I'm Sejal. I am product manager at HubSpot. Unlike everyone here, I am relatively new to HubSpot. I am six months into HubSpot and really enjoying the community that we have got here. Thank you Charles.

Thanks. Hi everyone, my name is Charles Balma. My pronouns are he, him. I'm a product manager working on the CMS developer experience and I'm the newbie to the bunch. So I've been here for a few months at HubSpot and I'm really enjoying learning about and engaging with the community and I will pass it to Ben.

Hey everyone, I'm Ben Anderson. I'm an engineering lead on HubSpot developer platform. Right now I'm focused on UI extensions which you saw earlier and also just more recently on HubSpot projects and I can't compete with Tim and David, but I think I'm about where Mark is. I'm going on about eight years at the company and just really looking forward to hearing from you all today.

Thanks everyone for the intros. I am seeing a bunch of questions filter in. I think you're going to be pleased. I saw one, I think the most upvoted one is already on our slate to answer. So we will get to your community questions. Keep them coming, keep voting and I'm going to kick us off for the CRM folks. The CRM development tools are in beta right now. What are the, what are, what kind of feedback are you getting from folks in the beta and what are they most excited about?

I think so feedback we have been getting so far. They've been in the beta for a while and we've been getting really encouraging feedback from everyone. Thank you for everyone who have tested for beta. Your feedback has been really helping us improve the product a lot. Thomas Lane, who was in the chat earlier, I don't know if he's here now but his team has built QR code generator using it one of something with they kind of integrated custom forecasting solution that they had homegrown. So people are building a lot of innovative stuff with it and the more they test and more things that we know what you're trying to do, what you're struggling, where are your challenges? It helps us improve the product, it helps us identify where the gaps are and where we need to fill, where we need to put more priorities. So yeah, keep testing and keep reaching us, reaching out to us with feedback. Thank you. I won't see if Mark has anything to add or Ben, do you have anything to add to what I said for beta?

Yeah, I can say a little bit more and I think I've been on a few of the feedback calls with some of you. So yeah, really appreciate everything we're hearing. We're already hearing some of the themes from the feedback from the projects beta. One of the things we're hearing is improvements to testing and debugging. That's been a big thing on our radar right now. We know it's not very easy to find logs and all the related events related to CRM card rendering and debugging a surface function. That's one of the big feedback themes we're hearing and one of the things that we're working on to improve. Another one that's close to my heart is the overall projects model. This is a brand new system for us. It's a brand new model for building stuff. We've seen some confusion about how it relates to our previous systems like private apps and what the longer term future architecture is going to look like. This is a big thing we're hearing and it's a big question on our radar. My goal is that by the time we get to the full release that this architecture is a lot less confusing and it's a little more seamless and consistent. That's part of the feedback we're getting too. I'll just echo. The biggest thing we can ask is that people are trying this stuff out. It's all brand new and that people are giving us feedback. We're hearing a lot but we still need more.

Yeah, maybe just a call out for how can folks join. The beta might be a good reminder. I saw we're trying to answer that a little bit but maybe just a reminder would be really helpful.

Yeah, just it's Easy now. All HubSpot public betas are available for anyone to enroll as long as you are in the plan that beta is open for so if you are sales to service enterprise account, you can go to the product update and enroll into beta yourself. We also have recently created a community on the page and we were trying to get all the discussions flowing there so that we know what you're trying and any questions you have, you want to talk to us, reach out on the community page and we are happy to help you there. Thank you.

All right, let's switch gears a little bit to our CMS folks. Like we, we're, we're getting a bunch of. Actually no, let's continue with the CRM tool.

Sorry about that.

So we've been talking a little bit about the UI extensions or like CM CRM cards. I think some people are talking about like they have a question like how are they comparing to the existing CRM extension cards? And like can we kind of demystify that a little bit? I don't know if that's Mark, but go ahead and jump in.

I can talk about that. I think we are trying to reimagine the way you build UI extensions on HubSpot. You build experiences in HubSpot. So unlike the existing CRM card API that you see today, it's a lot different to start with, this is a different experience. You can build new UX on HubSpot and with UI components we have, you can hook up serverless functions to the action and build more interactive experiences instead of a simple card. There are a lot many possibilities that opens up in the future where you can build more interactivity inside HubSpot and make it a hub for all kinds of operations at the same time. You don't need to find a hosting service. You can host these apps on HubSpot itself. We are seeing many different use cases and we're trying to reimagine how you build complete UI extensions on HubSpot.

Yeah, we had a community question earlier about will the new CRM card features, middle pane custom UI components be available in public apps? We're big users of CRM cards for our Marketplace app, but so far it looks like the more powerful features are only for private apps. Can you go ahead and speak to that?

Public apps are on our minds and we're thinking about it. We want to make sure we get everything done for private apps first and solve really unique business use cases for individual customers and then open up for public app. So we are thinking about it and that's all I can say at the moment, but more to come in the future.

Okay, great. I skipped over a CMS question. I'm going to change gears, go to the CMS folks and then we'll come back to a little bit more of the CRM. So GraphQL is now live.

Woohoo.

We timed it just perfectly. What did you hear about most during the beta and what are you hoping for now? It's nga.

Yeah.

So first off, a big thanks to Will Goby and the rest of the team for rolling out GraphQL. So it was a lot of work on their part to roll it out and so far what we've heard back from the beta is that developers really love the ability to traverse relationships and data. They like to increase portability across accounts and then also having a familiar query language from another platform that's also growing in adoption across the web, like across the web development ecosystem. So those are some of the things that we saw in the beta and going forward, now that it's live, we're really excited to see more production use cases using GraphQL and also just interested to see what kind of queries people come up with and how they really connect to their CRM and their CMS and pull all their data together. So that's what we're excited about. The one other thing that tying back to that theme around familiar query language, we're really trying to build an open stack for development at HubSpot. GraphQL just another way to pull data as well as the JavaScript building blocks that we introduced today. We're hoping that the combination of those two things will really just open up the the ecosystem, make it a little less daunting to join and start building on HubSpot.

Great. And there was a question earlier from the community about will the example project shown in the JavaScript session be made available to look at and play with?

Yes. Yeah. So as a part of the private beta we are excited to share that is some of our getting started type projects. So we will share that with the community.

Okay, great. We have a ton of questions that we've lined up. We have a lot of time too, so just. I know folks are sitting tight. I even saw the most upvoted one we already have to be answered. So we'll be getting to that. So let's switch back to the CRM folks for a second. And there's a question about do forms in the card builder support drop down select options for inputs?

I would say we are thinking about dropbound options. Forms are not complete without drop down select. So yes, we are thinking about it.

Yeah, the forms as they stand now was very much just an initial release so that we could have people play around with it. But we knew right away obviously we can't, we need much more, we need much better form controls in there. So yeah, again, can't promise anything of course, but I mean it would be very, very incomplete if we didn't have something to support that use case very soon.

Are the new development tools going to have Python available as well?

I can talk about that one as well because we've been debating that a lot internally, especially with the ability to use Python for the API endpoints on the cms. I think where we landed on this hopefully isn't too much of a surprise where basically the debate is do we go wide and cast a wide net and try to, you know, add support for many different languages at once or do we go deep and try to make the experience really great for one language and then roll that experience to any other support we want to add in the future? So I think that we can build a much better experience to build on if we, if we take that latter approach where we just really focus in specialize on one first before we decide to go broad and just kind of have mediocre support from all.

Okay, one more on the CRM side before we switch again, when will the developer tab be ungated to Super Admin permission set? I'd like to see developer specific permissions without getting Super Admin.

I'm going to jump on this one. San Joe yeah, so yeah, figuring out, I think one of the big things on our mind right now is like figuring out how to model all the granular permissions that go along with like viewing and deploying projects and accessing all the different tools that are under the current development navigation area because it's a big problem. So we at the moment we started, we opted to start with Super Admins and we wanted to kind of get a gauge how people were going to use the tools, how they think about permission and access levels that they want their teams to work with with those tools as we like try to figure this out. So it is definitely not the long term goal that this stays under Super Admin permission set. Like we're going to add developer permissions for sure.

Okay, switching gears. And now our number one most I think Mark, I don't know if this was your question originally, but we had already noted to ask it. But what is the advice of the server side rendering team for brushing up on our react skills in the most relevant way ahead of the beta release? I've used Gatsby and next in the past but island seems like an Astro thing. Is it worth hacking together an Astro site this weekend? Timothy, I think you want to take that.

Sure thing. I'll take that. Astro for those of you that don't know, I believe that URL is Astro build. It's pretty new. I'll start from the top and say while Astro's islands aren't exactly the same as the islands that we previewed in our talk earlier, Astro's islands in their progressive hydration approach has been a big inspiration for us and we think that's really useful. And I think that you can learn from Astro and a lot of that skill and those high level ideas, maybe not the exact syntax will transfer Translate over to HubSpot's JavaScript building building blocks. But as for brushing up on React, like please don't feel compelled like there's always this, you know, technology, new, hip, latest, always have to do new things. But if you're interested I think that and we think that investing in the time to start learning or brushing up on your REACT skills is really, really useful. Again, Hubble is not going anyway, but if you have the time and interest, there's lots of great videos out there and online courses and I don't have a good list off the top of my head. We can get some of those and make sure we package those up along with our private and public beta docs as those come out. And I've also heard a lot of good things about the new React beta docs both for learning and tutorials that have like these live examples you can play with and as a good reference. So we'll gather up some of those resources to help you out later on. But please, if you're interested, take the time, invest in React. I think it'll be well worth it for your future and we'd love to hear your feedback when you get there.

We have questions on fhir. I do have a couple more rapid fire ones set up for the CMS team and then I would suggest anyone listening to 249 of you please to go and vote up the rest of the questions that you want us to handle and we'll try to do our best to get to them. So some rapid fire for CMS team So will the GitHub integration work for CMS websites as well or is it limited to CRM projects?

Yeah, so we built the JS building blocks on the developer projects GitHub integration and that's really because we see that as the future of development for both the CRRM and the CMS. So developer projects is now in public beta. And so as it goes through beta and platform matures, we do plan on bringing that continuous integration and deployment power to the CMS eventually. So I can't commit to a timing right now, but that is, that is in our plans.

Okay, and will we remain limited to HubSpot fields in the creation of our JS modules or will it be possible to create create new ones?

I'll take that. The quick answer is yes. Well, it depends. You will be limited to the fields that are available today for existing Hubble modules. I think the best way to think about it is that the JSX syntax we showed for module fields and if you have a fields JSX file inside your JS module folder, think about that as syntax that will render down or compile down to fields JSON. We wanted to do that for interoperability to start and so yeah, we'll be using the same system, it's the same fields, it's the same page editing, module editing, sidebar, all that kind of stuff. It's great feedback though. We would love to explore in the future what kinds of additional flexibility and power we can add to those fields in the sidebar. But they're very much the same thing with a new way to write and read them and abstract them now.

Okay, one more for rapid fire is the dev server only for JS partials and modules or for HubSpot modules, templates and everything else CMS related?

I'll take this one and it's again a really good question and the answer is actually a little bit complicated and messy depending on how you think about it. So yes, the the are the CMS dev server that we're previewing today is is mostly targeted JavaScript modules and JavaScript partials and giving a real and fast developer experience where you can do hot module reloading and change those react components locally and see them change live and all that kind of good stuff. It is you still if you want to make a change to a Hubble template or a custom module that's written in Hubble, you will need to make that change. Neither do an HS upload or edit it in the design manager to see that change. However, the cool thing that we have already in our again very early dev server preview is that you can do things that proxy a real live rendered page. So let's say you have, I don't know, let's say it's your, your, your partners or your website, your home homepage that's out there and you're like you're working on version 2 of it and it's a separated, it's a copy of it or it's in bu temporary unpublished change. You can start tweaking that Hubble template to Refer to a JavaScript partial or a JavaScript module. And then you can have the dev server proxy that locally so you see that that exact HTML that is coming live from the server rendered Hubble. But your local JavaScript changes that you're making on your machine without uploading are like kind of stitched together. So it's a little bit of both worlds mixed together and it's a little bit weird to wrap your head around. But we think a lot of you, you'll like it when you start using it and love to hear the feedback around that.

Great. So we're getting into pure new community questions at this point. I did see one. I'm going to jump in on one for me because I did see someone ask about the HubSpot Theme Challenge and for 2022 there will not be one this year. So we really only have two months left of the year. And I would say definitely keep your eye on what we're coming up with next. And there are some app and theme accelerators that the team has been doing and those are also great opportunities to get guided to guided help on things that need to be built. So we'll drop a few links. I'll try to drop them as well about where you can find out more about those programs. But for in the next two months, no. Okay. The top voted one right now. Any plans for DND areas for blog posts so that modules can be used? Who would like to take that one?

I'll jump in and take this. I'm not up to date with the latest of this and I'll definitely bring this question back from the team and we can hook up to talk more with you later. I think that we're very, very interested in exploring how we can make that kind of wonderful drag and drop experience working with blog posts. But we don't have anything to announce at this time, I don't think.

Okay. And one we talked about earlier, and I also know it's in the list is how much access to vite or vitae. I'm not sure about that one. Do we get. Do we have to do any of the setup or interact with it at all?

That is me as well. One second. All right, so this is. So for those of you that aren't familiar with vite, it's Actually a French word, French word for quick. So it's a speedy modern open source tool that's built on top of, I think it's esbuild rollup and a bunch of other stuff. And so Vite gives you a lot of sweet JavaScript tooling and features out of the box. And compared to maybe some of you have played with webpack, which is very powerful and great, but it tends to bring a lot of configuration and complex with it. Vite is kind of the opposite mentality of just like give you stuff for free and you don't have to worry about it. And so both the local CMS developer experience that we previewed today and the production builds that happen on top of this developer project system with these JavaScript building blocks, both of those are built on top of Vite. So the great thing is that you get all of these things that are built into Vite for free. Like in our demo we showed like you get some CSS module stuff for free. If you want to use TypeScript for free, there's a bunch of other stuff importing JSON files and getting your all assets, there's a huge, huge long list. So. And right now in the, in our implementation that's nearing private beta, like nearly all of those for free building blocks in Vite will be available for you to use without having to set it up. And that's great. Like we, we're still kind of actively exploring how much that we're going to expose. Is that something you can add your own custom Vite plugins to or not? Will those plugins intersect with some of the HubSpot ones? It's a really interesting question. I don't think we have a great answer yet. We, but we definitely want to explore that more. Very good question.

Okay, thanks for asking that. This one might be for Mark and the CRM folks, but will webhooks be available for private apps?

Yeah. So we've been, we've been hearing this question a lot and I see it's got a lot of upvotes, a lot of people asking about it. This is one of those things that kind of falls in the category, excuse me, of like private apps and the new projects architecture. There's a lot of familiar concepts, but a lot of it is brand new. The feature parity between public and private apps. It may seem like it's easy to carry that over one to one, but it's not as easy as it may seem. Webhooks is one of those things that is on our list of big Features that we want to bring over to project private apps. I can't give a timeline or exact priority, but I would just say, and I'm not an engineer, I'm a designer, but it is a thing that people are asking about. The best thing we can do is understand the use cases that that's going to serve from the private apps perspective. Webhooks have been available in public apps for a long time and so we sort of understand the sort of marketplace app and public app model for those and how people are using them. But some of those use cases for like why you want to use webhooks in private apps and how you would imagine using them integrated in with projects and serverless functions and all that would be really helpful for us to understand. So I would encourage you to like reach out through the community and like talk, talk to us about that because it's, it's on our radar. And yeah, it's definitely a thing that people are asking for.

Thanks for answering that. I know that the questions, we can't really group them very easily, so I'm going to try and group a couple right now. Getting back to the D and D areas, can JS partials or JS modules be included in D and D areas via regular modules?

Yes. I'll take this. I think that the answer is yes. And private beta you will be able to do this. And I think the best way to think about it is that with JS modules we want to add a lot of new power and functionality to what you can build and what you can access and doing third party NPM packages and all stack overflow and all that wonderful stuff. For those of you especially that have react experience already, but from the rest of the HubSpot product and whether they're the marketers or business builders or CEOs or whomever that are using your services to build websites, a JS module shouldn't be a thing for them. They should just see a module and it's just from their perspective, they're taking a module that they don't know that it's implemented different under the covers, they drag it into their page, edit the module sidebar, and it all seems to work. That technical implementation detail is really important for us and I think really important for you because it gives us a lot of power and it can do some wonderful things. But it's just the module that can be used in the same way as everything else.

Seen lots of D and D questions in here. Just one more that's been uploaded quite a Bit and a reminder to folks if you would like us to see a question. It does help if you vote, so go ahead and scroll through. I see a lot of questions but I would love to see that Are there any plans for coded templates for DND email and if so, when can we expect to see that available?

I don't, I don't know if any of us know that offhand. I've worked with the email team but not in a couple years. So I think that's a question we'll have to take back to them. I don't know if we direct experience or knowledge about that. Good question. We'll try to find out.

Yeah, agree on that one. Thank you.

Will system pages ever have a page editor experience? They require templates and marketplace themes. But users building websites in different languages downloading these themes don't currently have an easy way to change the text in these system templates. Thanks Alyssa for the question. Who fails? Like maybe they could jump in on that.

Sorry, I didn't follow the question. Do you mind?

Yeah, it disappeared unfortunately. Let me pull it up. So will system pages ever have a page editor experience? So they're required templates and marketplace themes, but users building websites in different languages downloading these themes don't currently have an easy way to change the text in these system templates?

Yeah, I mean Charles, you can take this if you want but I think like I also don't absolutely know the answer for this. I know that there's interest in like we would love to make system pages work better and like be more easily editable, especially by those that are non technical but I don't think we have anything to announce at this time. Good feedback. I'll take it back.

Thomas, I am going to call. I know the answer to this but I ask it every time. Okay, I'm going to give you your moment of fame. Will we ever get direct SQL access or SQL access? GraphQL is much better but direct transaction SQL queries would allow us to do joins.

Yeah. So Thomas, thank you. Thank you for the question. I wish I could give you a new answer there but it's not planned at this time. So it's something that the team is aware of but it's not on a roadmap right now.

Okay, another one about cms. Are there plans to use the CMS technology with Hubble and React on other places in HubSpot as well as like customer portal, knowledge base or even in dashboards?

Sure, I'll take this. Is this where I can do the Pinky in the brain voice of like taking over the world. No, I'm just kidding.

Yes.

Like we don't have anything specific to

hashtag forward looking statements.

Yes.

I'm just getting excited anyways. So no, like we don't have anything to announce at the time, at this time. I mean we're excited about the future here and like to be clear, like we're. We want to start small here. We want to start. We're showing you this as a preview that a private base is coming out because we want to get your feedback. We don't think that we can just build this giant platform with all these interconnected features, throw it for you and it for it to be perfect. So it's important for us to start small, get your feedback, work together to make it as good as we can, and then incrementally bring it to the rest of the platform. So we have a lot of interest there, but nothing too specific to announce yet.

This is a follow up on the webhook question which we asked for Private apps is asking about it for Hub DB. Will there be webhooks for HubDB? This would be amazing. The use case is watching changes and performing an API callback. Assuming the answer to that is probably like, that'd be great.

I understand the question. I don't know. I can't speak to getting those events on our radar, but it's definitely a thing we can forward to that team because. Yeah, makes sense to me.

Okay. Jesus. I see your question about the APIs. I'm gonna punt that because this is probably not the right group of people to be answering that. But I do see that it's uploaded and a bunch of people are interested and we will try to get a good answer for you folks at another time. Is anyone thinking about GraphQL subscriptions as a replacement for webhooks? Charles smiled at that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I know on the. When we were talking about Thomas's question last on SQL, like that was a not planned at this time for this one. As far as I know, this is something that's on the team's radar and they're thinking about it, but there are no concrete plans that we can announce quite yet.

Okay.

Will it be possible to update a theme module using Hubble with an SSR REACT version of that module for existing customer pages without breaking any. Wait, without breaking anything. Thanks to the final piece, which is further complexity.

All right, could you repeat that one more time? I think I got it all, but I want to make sure that I Keep track of the whole question.

Will it be possible to update a theme module using Hubble with an SSR React version of that module for existing customer pages without breaking anything?

There's a lot of subtlety to this question and I think there's some spots where we still need to work and figure out some of the details here. We definitely want to be able to make it so that you can incrementally adapt. Like one of the whole reasons we're doing hybrid rendering and JavaScript beside your Hubble is we want you to incrementally use it. We want to take it into your existing page. We don't want you to have to rewrite your entire website to have to use these new building blocks. But as for the specific like, are we going to be able to make you be able to swap one exactly in place with the same data? I think we're going to have to look into more details there. So I don't have a great answer, but I want us to figure this out and do the best we can to make that easier for you.

Okay, this one's about public apps. Will we ever get integrated objects besides custom objects so that we can make even better and cooler public apps? As a thought about that, I think the answer is not yet. I think, yeah, I would say that

not yet, but we could check back and check and get back to you. I think David has more thoughts about integrated objects too. If you have anything to add, David, but. But yeah, we could check with the team and get back to you on that.

Yeah, I think it's something we're still collecting information on looking at these for a while. If you have a public app and you're looking to use custom objects and you're interested in the types of integrator objects that we might create in the future, we have that pilot program to get access to custom objects for your public app. And that's the basically we're using that as feedback for what types of objects we would use here. So we're still collecting feedback but nothing to announce right now as far as what those objects might be or when they might be ready.

Okay. This might also be one for you, David, but will custom coded actions ever have a centralized error handling place or a way of notifying specific users when exceptions are thrown or include other libraries like Sentry when that we can notify when things go wrong?

Yeah, I think this kind of goes earlier about just better ways in HubSpot in general to see these types of types of issues when you're writing code or building things that are running inside of the HubSpot infrastructure. I don't think there's any concrete plans right now, but we know this is a pain point for anyone who uses these functions or serverless or any of that kind of stuff. So nothing we can tell you right now, but we know it's a pain point and it's something we're focused on solving.

I think for that one that's where feedback is key. And so I don't know feature in particular, but I know as we're developing all of these features for the developer platform, we have opinions on what the best way is to troubleshoot it, but that troubleshooting, debugging and getting errors is such there are so many different ways to do it that the more we hear, the better we can deliver something for you in a more generalized way instead of just kind of going off our base assumptions. So I would change that to a call to action. Let's find out what will be most useful for you.

This is from a new HubSpot customer. Welcome Grant. So excuse the new question. Will the developer experience be improved for custom code actions in workflow? Can I develop locally and then deploy like the Hubble custom modules experience

now?

I don't think we have anything to announce regarding local development at the time. I'm I we would love to expand and offer more local development. We know folks love it. We love it too internally, but I don't think we have anything to announce right now with that. But I'll definitely take the feedback back to those folks.

This is a sandbox question. Are there any plans to copy pages from live to sandbox or the opposite direction?

I assume that's a CMS sandbox.

Yeah, it's a good question. Pages.

So I'm assuming yes for the CMS sandbox. We know that there's not that capability right now to sync content from the developer sandbox or the test environment to live pages. And so that's something that we're actively working on and looking into. But I don't have any timing to announce for right now.

This is a question probably for every person on this. How long do private betas usually last? When do you think this might be ready for production? Which by the way there's another phase between private and production. But I would, I think it would be helpful to have a few of you weigh in on that because I think we talked at the beginning about private beta and the kind of the feedback we're getting. But like how maybe like giving a little insight of like what kind of signals are we looking for as a product team and what kind of feedback we're looking forward to, like move things from stage to stage. I'd love to get both teams to kind of answer that.

Yeah.

So I can start for the CMS side. So the answer that I'll give is I'm sure to satisfy or not satisfying for some people, but it depends. So we're really looking for when we kick off this private beta, we're really looking for engagement. So you know, how many people are using, how many people are using the product and then what kind of experiences are they having with it. And then the thing that we normally look for in the private betas are any kind of blockers that might prevent us from rolling this out to a larger audience. So we do have to go back through and find solutions to those. So the private betas can last anywhere from weeks to months. And so I wish I could give you a definitive answer, but it really all depends on the data that we're collecting in that private beta.

Yeah. And I would add like we see private beta is kind of validating our concepts and hypothesis. Are we solving the right problem? Are there people actually thinking that we are in the right direction and just kind of validating where we are going with it to get that confidence and continuous feedback? The more people we add into the private beta though, it's a small group of people but if the more feedback we get during that phase kind of solidifies the concepts that we send to public beta. So public beta is when we are like more confident about, yes, this is the direction that we are going on more and we want to open it up to a larger audience and get more higher level feedback and engagement and see what people are doing with it. And again, this is a phase also where we are inviting more and more feedback. More you test, tell us how what's working, what's not working, what's breaking or where you are struggling or challenges are. That level of visibility and use cases will help us improve our product a lot. So the duration really depends on when we think that we are confident enough and when we are confident that people are using it and solving the right set of problems. That's when we kind of decide whether we are ready for the next stage or not.

I can kind of jump in with it, maybe a UX perspective here. Yeah, and just echo like there is no like, like fixed time frame. It's all about like for me the quality of the experience. So like if there's still a lot of friction points that we're seeing or question marks about whether, you know, whether there could be potentially be friction points that we're seeing internally. And we haven't evaluated that externally yet. We're not hearing the feedback. Like, for me, that's what I'm looking for is I don't want to. I don't want to release something or say it's ready to go before it's ready. So again, I guess just another, just another call out for. To try things out and give us feedback because that's going to help us get ready to release.

Yeah, I think it's great also for this, this audience to understand too that we've made some strides in how public betas are accessible now to customers. So like, you part of like your job can also be educating either your colleagues or your, your customers like that you're building for how to do that, which is like by clicking on the little avatar, there's a section called Product updates and they can opt into things directly. So I just want to call that

out kind of, you know, keep harping on this. But the more we hear about these examples, which, this one is great because it's detailed. That's how we are going to get these changes in. But yeah, great question.

Yeah, thank you.

Thanks. Any updates coming for content staging? Content staging updates?

Yeah, I don't know if you want to take this, Charles, but I'm not familiar enough to know. Either we don't have anything to announce at this time or I just don't know what's going on.

Great. All right. And just a reminder, folks, it would be awesome if you could put your question in the form of a question that would also help me in asking the team on things. Okay, that one we have. So someone had a question about campaign. The Campaigns API. I actually don't think. Just correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think this team is the right team to ask about the Campaigns API. Okay. So I am going to. I know there's votes on that and I'm just acknowledging that we have it, but probably not for this session. So here's a REACT question. If you use REACT locally, what would a marketer see when they edit the theme in the Design manager?

If you use React locally. So I'm trying to remember maybe one of you folks on the CRM side that are more with. I'm pretty sure that you're going to be able to see like the project folder in the Design Manager, but you're not going to be able to click in and edit that maybe you can see it read only. I can't remember the details you folks check me, but it's like the Project ICD kind of system. It kind of breaks down if you have some people coming in from a different pipeline and making a change from the side. So it does make. If you make those CMS assets JS building blocks changes, they're going to be going through the pipeline. They'll be showing up either as read only or just as like an item in the sidebar.

Yeah, that's as far as my knowledge goes. That's right. We do show the project sort of file tree within the design manager at some level, but I don't, I don't know if they were asking if you're going to see like a module space in the page template or something, but as far as the files go, yeah, I think you're great.

People are loving the web hooks. We have another question. Part 3 Question of Webhooks we were really excited to see tickets added to webhooks. Can you expect to continue expanding other objects to other objects or custom objects?

I would give the same answer as like, as like bringing webhooks over to. It's really a matter of understanding what the demand is and to get that on the team's radar. You know, full disclosure, the webhook system is like a sort of like a framework, a shared framework that the system exists but teams kind of contribute to it depending on the events that we want to surface. So and I don't believe anybody from the teams who would own that are here, so probably can't give you any concrete but you know, same answer. Basically it's a feature ad.

Okay, great. The question I was asked next disappeared, so I'll just hope that someone answered that next. Is there a timeline for migration tool to change data center? Oh, I can actually chime in on that one. So the data migration tool is currently in private beta and I believe if you have a customer that is a good candidate or you are a customer, you should reach out to your customer Success Success Manager to get more information on availability, eligibility and just in general how the private beta is going. Okay, is there something in the pipeline for custom code on work? Hit the API burst limitations on internal HubSpot API calls via normal UI. There are no burst restrictions, but this applies when we use custom code. And have a perspective on that. Okay, I think this group's going to pass. David.

I don't think there's any plans, at least none that I know of. For improving that. It's something that we're aware of. We've heard it from a few folks. Part of it is we want to have better tools for handling those kinds of RAID errors in the workflows and just reevaluating our API limits in general. We do that every couple of years, just as kind of a general rule, see what those limits are and how they're working for our customers. But again, I don't think there's any plans right now to change how that works by itself, outside of providing better ways to manage that when it happens.

Thanks, David. Back to React. Are there plans to use React components in the CRM extension as well?

Specific plans? No. But as I've said earlier, that we'd really love to do what we can to build a wonderful modern platform for developers to use. It isn't like we're trying to look in that crystal ball to figure out the exact future and the tooling and the stack and the wonderful developer experience of the future. I personally think, and many of us think that React has a big part to play with that, but it isn't clear how all the pieces add up together. And we are working very closely, especially as we roll through these private betas and we get more feature sets in our in respective places and we get more feedback and they get their solid ground on the platform. That puts us in a lot better place to start drawing the lines further in the future to see if and when and how these things meet. So I think there's a lot of interest and some potential there, but we have no specific plans to announce at this time.

Yeah, and just to add to that, there's like there's one requirement that we had for cards and we need a server to be able to run because for things like Secrets integrating with other APIs. So we wanted to start there because that's a building block we know we cannot omit from the plan. So we're always looking to figure out how we can augment that. I've talked to Tim a lot about this, so we are definitely not ignoring it, but we just want to make sure we get those first building blocks in there, get the feedback, and then see what's reasonable to kind of iterate on from there.

I have a question on sandboxes. Will there be a better way to migrate sandbox CRM environments to production? Clients want to see the completed changes and how they work in the sandbox. Sometimes they want to test in sandbox as well. Workflows, custom objects, properties, everything basically then needs to be recreated in the Prod portal.

Yeah, and I can say Sandbox TV is working on that part on better pushing to production and syncing in terms of CI development. We have special sandboxes for developers called dev sandboxes and you can use a GitHub integration today to push your code if you're working on extensions to production. And that's a really good way if you're using GitHub integration and versioning with that. But if you are using standard sandboxes, we can get back to you on that. But I'm sure Sandbox team is working on that one very well.

Okay, there's a question here about changing a name of a field in a module. Is there any plan to add features that would allow developers to change the name of a field in a module without disconnecting it from the data across all usages? For example, we have a choice field called blob style, but now we want to change this to graphic style and unfortunately making that update would break the thousands of pages using it.

This is a really good question. I don't think we have anything specific to announce at the time, but it's a really good point and we can and would like to do better there. But nothing specific to announce at this time.

Okay, see a couple questions that are upvoted and I think, I do think this team is not the right folks to handle it. So let me see what else I can grab here. Are there any plans for timeline, events and private apps? I think these are all going to

mark almost, so I hate to be a broken record, but this is, I mean, almost literally the exact answer as webhooks. Because it's another one of those things where again, private apps and public apps feel very similar by design, but they are built on different architectures, different backend frameworks, which features we pull over and how we pull them over. We have to be kind of. We have to prioritize. Timeline events are on the list for sure. I'd probably hazard a guess that they're below webhooks, but they're one of the things on the list.

Yeah, go ahead, David. Sorry.

Just to follow up, if there's any other questions along this line, I think it's going to be the same answer for anything that's in private apps or only in public apps. We're looking at how we can make one of the things that only work for one make with the other, just in general, for all features of both of those. If there's any other questions, webhooks and timeline events are the two most common. But there's also things like calling extensions and some of the other extensions like that. But we're looking at that for every feature of public apps.

Okay, I know we're getting close on time. I'm going to try to grab the questions that are most related to what we've talked about today. And I'm also going to ask the panel another question to jump in. But first, with SSR and a bigger focus on React, will we still be limited to react packages 1.2 megabytes in size or less?

Limited to react packages 1.2 megabyte size and less. I'm actually less familiar with that. I mean one of the benefits of how we're doing this and we have server rendering alongside client side rendering. A lot of the bundle size considerations are far less concerning when we have that code running on the server and it's happening and then it's outputting some static HTML. So I think that is going to offer a lot more flexibility so that you can have either bigger, more dependencies. It's a tricky question to go fully down the path of all the nuances with it because NPM is a very great tool, but also there's dragons there. If you depend on this and this and this and this and you can pull so many things in. I don't think I have a specific answer here because I'm not exactly sure where the questionnaire is coming from, but I think that things will be better. But let's learn if there's a specific point there that's either driving friction currently or with the JS building blocks beta that comes out. Please let us know. We would love to work through and make that better.

This kind of feels like a follow up question almost, but with the potential added complexity of React modules, are there any plans to expand developer control over the module editing experience?

I don't think there's tons of specific plans. Like we're always trying to add new field types, add more capabilities to field types and more power and things like. So we're constantly trying to make those better. I mean some of those are going to be a little bit more in the developer side of things. Some of those are going to be a little bit more on the content creator, business owner, marketer side of things. I think the questionnaire is probably coming from the place of like the wanting more control on the sidebar to change like a layout and that kind of stuff. I don't think we have any specific plans at that time, but it is really interesting feedback and we will certainly be looking for it, looking towards some of that in the future.

I think there's a separate question, but kind of related to code editing really coming to the code editor, such as code completion, if anyone has any thoughts on that.

Charles, do you have about the features that are coming to either Design Manager versus the things about VS code and that kind of stuff?

Yeah, looking forward, we're really planning to double down on the local development experience. And so while I can't discuss the specifics at this time, there are a number of improvements that we plan on making to the existing like VS code extension and then also our CLI tooling. So while I can't comment on the exact features, we are looking into improving that local development experience.

Great. I think we're going to have time for maybe one or two more questions from the community. This is your fast and furious upvoting time while I ask the panel. Actually I'm going to actually turn it around on them, give them a magic wand to ask the folks that are listening anything that they can. So I would love to hear a couple perspectives from folks on what they would love to hear. I will go first just to give you an example. Like I've been really excited to see how many folks are coming in from all over the world. And I think one of the biggest things I'm looking forward to as we start to tell these like, these customer stories, especially the, on the technical side I want to be telling those technical customer stories is I want global, I want some global use cases. I want, you know, some local, you know, integrations and things that we need to highlight. So would love for like that to be really represented in the stories that we're telling is how much, how many people we have really all over the world building on HubSpot. That's my magic wand question. I don't know if someone else wanted to jump in. Tim, I know you maybe had a question.

I'll go, I'll go. So classic magic. Well, I guess it's not the classic magic wand question. It's kind of like the backwards magic wand question. So if I had a magic asker for the community, like I guess I'd cast a spell to make the broader web development community as kind and as enthusiastic and as joyful to work with as our HubSpot developer community. So like, you know, I'm, I'm an engineer, I'm a nerd. I love technical debates. I love excessive bike shedding and all that kind of technical, kind of jibbing. Jabbing and what's better than whatever. To be honest, there's a lot of folks and leaders across the broad web development space, you know, tech, Twitter, Silicon Valley, whatever, or that orange website, all that kind of stuff that tend to take things a little too far in my opinion. They have way too many us versus them debates and they bring out their pitchforks. So. But, but the web is like a huge and varied space. In my humble opinion. There is never going to be one perfect solution that meets everybody's needs. And it's kind of a little useless to have those arguments about this is the best thing and you should always use it for this. I know I'm getting touchy feely and sappy here, but I wish that we would all learn and work better together to make the web and the world a better place. And I think that the broader technical community that I often see, and maybe I spend a little bit too much time on Twitter in those places, could learn from the example that you folks have set and the enthusiasm and the kindness and all that great stuff that you bring and anyways, so I'll stop rambling there, but that will be my magic wand.

But as, as a product manager, I want to see my products being used more and you know, understand how people are using it more. So I'm on dev slack. If you have, if you are there, you can see my calendar, book a meeting and talk to me. I just want to about talk to as many people as possible. And that's the magic one, that if I can talk to as many developers as possible who are using HubSpot CRM for, you know, extending and integrating, I would love to do that.

Yeah. And just to add to that, Also, as a PM here at HubSpot, it does help to, if I had my wish, I would really ask for just continued engagement and patients as we continue to build. So from What I've seen, HubSpot is, you know, excellent at, you know, putting out small tests and so be patient with us as we continue to put out these tests. Please stay engaged and continue to give us your thoughts and feedback so we can keep improving the products.

Yeah, there. And someone was saying, how can we say thanks to you folks now and in the future, the HubSpot developer. Your experience is overall very good and we appreciate, we appreciate that. That's really helpful to hear. I think that one of the things I'll reiterate is like, you know, when you're asking for things that make your job easier, like we're seeing with those examples that like, even if you have like can't tell us your customer name, but like, if you give us as much as you can about what the customer is trying to do to make them successful, that just really helps us and we may start to hear repetitive themes. Right. Versus like, can we have an API endpoint for content staging? If you put it in a context of like, this is what we're trying to do, this is how we're trying to make customers successful. Those that additional, like whatever, 30 seconds, two minutes of putting that context in really enriches like what we're able to do in acting on it. I don't know if anyone else had a magic wand answer, but we are getting pretty much at time. So I think that. Let me just see if we have time to answer any more questions here. I do want to just thank our panel today. You know, it is, it is hard taking, I think. And I want to thank the community, like some really good questions. I know we couldn't get to all of them. We don't have every single like product and every single piece of the product represented here. So some of those things we just weren't able to get to. But I really want to appreciate like both the community and the folks for kind of taking these rapid fire live questions and we hope this was useful for you and we'll be giving out, you know, all this content later on our channel. So if you haven't signed up for the newsletter or for the YouTube, definitely suggest that now. Yeah. So I just wanted to kind of make sure we end on time and to thank everyone for coming to this. Really appreciate it. Thanks everyone.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Bye.