Is Failure Fatal or Is Failure the Ultimate Redirection for Good?

You talked about wounds that we carry around. And there's so many times that I've had to ask myself this and forgot to ask myself this. And I want to ask the listeners with this visual of wounds, these failures that you might be carrying around, you realize that you have Neosporin and band aids in your life, right? You realize that you can fix those wounds. They can be healed. You don't have to walk around this world with gaping holes in your life because you haven't taken the time to fix them. And that's the challenge that I would give the folks. If you're sitting here listening this and you've been beating yourself up because of perceived failures versus what we're about to get into when we talk about this conversation around failure, please do me a favor and heal. Take time to heal those. Listen to the words that we're about to talk and use those as the medicine for you to actually move forward in a very, a stronger, empowered way for the rest of your journey.

Welcome back to Beyond.

You'd default.

I am your host, Liz Moorhead, and.

As always, I am joined by the one and only George B. Thomas.

George, you are back.

Yes, you are back.

You abandoned me for two weeks. And I understand you needed a vacation. Yes, heavy air quotes, time with family. But we need to address the fact that you abandoned me and all of.

Us for two weeks.

How are you? Was it worth it?

I'm doing great. It was worth it. I got to about day three or four though, and to be honest with you, started itching a little bit because I do like to be at my computer. I do like to be creating content. I do like to be adding value. But I pushed through that, got past like day three or four and then all of a sudden it was like, okay, this is really good. I'm really enjoying this. And so the beach, the sun, some beverages, maybe the casino here or there because we're on a cru for all the listeners just knowing what the vacation was. But it was really great because I had the entire family there. We flew Seth in from Oregon, and then I also flew my mom and my dad in. And so there are eight of us on a cruise ship for 10 days and it was absolutely fabulous.

That's amazing. I am so happy for you. But being the mid Atlantic east coast petty woman that I am, I will say I remember you started posting your first initial photos, being on the cruise and at the beach right as the Northeast was just getting pummeled with snow and ice. Like literally, you left and my first day at work without you, A world without George, which was very devastating for me. Don't function well that way. We lost power. Two of our clients, we all had to cancel our meetings because in Mississippi, they had freezing temperatures to the point where pipes were bursting in houses. And meanwhile, George is just. He took all the good weather with him.

Yeah, it was funny because the first day we were on the cruise, my parents got a message from my brother because they're from Montana, and he's like, well, good time to leave. It's negative 30 here. And then we got a message from some of our neighbors, and they were like, well, you guys picked the perfect time because it's like 30 degrees, which for North Carolina is very, very chilly.

Oh, it was wild.

I mean, I live in Connecticut currently.

And it was colder in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Than it was in Connecticut. It was cuckoo bananas.

We are not here to talk about my grievances with the weather.

No. But what I find funny about the intro to this podcast episode is my timing for vacation is the exact opposite of what we're talking about today, because it was not a failure. It was a large success. As far as the timing that we decided to go on vacation, I think.

We need to take a moment and.

Recognize the flawless segue that you just slid right in there.

The flawless.

Just.

You know, speaking of success, have you heard of failure? I know, it was so funny when you and I hopped on the mic this morning.

Are you excited to talk about failure?

Oh, as excited as all of us.

Are ever going to be.

And I said, I have plenty of practice.

We're both super good at it, which.

Is what we're going to talk about today, because I have, surprisingly, a lot.

Of complex feelings about the topic.

And I think. You know what, George? I want to just start. Let's get right in with a question. What is your earliest recollection of failing.

In a really big way in your life? And I'm talking about that moment that really colors how you thought about failure from an early age.

Yeah, I want to answer that, but I do have something that I want to kind of preface. No, maybe that's not the word. I just want to put something out there because I want the listeners to make sure that we've packed our backpack in the proper way for the rest of the conversation that we're about to have.

It's time to pack a snack in a backpack.

It's a snack in a backpack day. So the first thing is there's a quote, and I'm going to start with the quote, because it's really important to understand what this quote is saying. It says, winning is great, sure, but if you're really gonna do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat and go on to win again, you're going to be a champion someday. And this is Wilma Rudolph, by the way, when I see the words champion someday, I want to replace that with, you're gonna live a life beyond your default. Right? Because that's why we're here. That's the conversation. And on this journey of a life beyond your default, you're going to have trials and tribulations, ladies and gentlemen. Trust me, this has not been, you know, a straight paved, easy road to get where we are. And yours won't be either failure or failing actually doesn't matter. It's what you do after that feeling of failing or failure. So let's get to your question. Like, what's the earliest thing? I kind of started to feel sad when I started to answer this question because I type out some notes because you asked for the earliest. But I realized that I had about a seven year period that I should probably call the dark ages of my life because it's like failure, failure, failure, right? And so when I think about this, the first one that I would say, man, this is a huge failure, was dropping out of high school. But Liz, I have to share with you, this seven year period, it started with dropping out of high school, then I got an honorable discharge from the Navy, which I thought I was going to be in there for life, right? 20 years and retire. And I lasted almost three from the Navy, I went to Faith Ranch. Some people who have listened to historical podcasts know that part of the journey. But I left there. And I didn't leave there because I was going out on a great, like, mission of life. I left there because I met a girl. But we'll get back to Faith Ranch later on. Losing several jobs, getting a divorce, and not having any direction in my life. Seven years, those main things are just like, bam, bam, bam. And I'm like, wow, I was really great at failing during the dark ages of my life. And for me, failure meant that I was less than. Failure meant I was worthless. Failure meant I was a screw up, right? I'm not lovable, likable, nor did I think that the failures I had to go through the dark ages of my life would add any type of value to my life or others. At that point, I just Thought like it. Like, I'm jokingly calling it the dark ages, but it was a dark place in my life where I was just simply trying at that point to survive because of all the failures or perceived failures and the way that that was impacting my brain to where I thought I was in life at that moment.

I have to be honest, it's both validating and hard to hear your answer. Because when I created that question, I mean, every time I write a question for this show, I always, you know, just reflexively answer it for myself. Our answers rhyme in a way. There were definite dark periods. I'm coming out of one right now where I realized, you know, hey, it wasn't necessarily failure, but I've had to learn to make jokes of, you got divorced twice from the same guy, ma'. Am. And I've learned to make the joke of, well, why do something soul crushing once when you can do it twice for twice the price? But still, it's just like the dagger, right?

Yeah.

But I love what you said there about perceived failures, because I did a little activity last night that I think you might find very interesting. I wrote down a big list of all the things that were possible in my life because I failed at something.

Oh, this is fun.

Yeah. For example, for the vast majority of my 20s, I felt like a complete failure. I went to Boston University. I went for the wrong reasons. I was entirely depressed and I never finished college. And then while my friends were in college and finishing and doing all the things that they were supposed to be doing, I was off on this different track. They're worried about finals and boys, and I'm worried about rent and how am I going to get a job without a bachelor's degree? Because it was before the job market crash. It was before they started making, you know, bachelor's degree or commensurate experience. And I remember there was just this really incredibly dark five to seven year period where I felt different, other disconnected from my community, disconnected from my family and all of these little different things. I remember all of the job interviews that I took, and then I was.

Devastated when I never got them.

The relationships that completely failed. And the reality is, is I would not be sitting here on this mic with you having this conversation and not in, like, the little. Well, because I ordered a burrito at breakfast that one day in January 2007. I'm talking about the fact, like, I don't even know who the person would be if I had, quote, unquote, succeeded. And I had this incredible moment speaking to students At Quinnipiac University, they had marketing students and they were talking about how you ended up in your career. And I said in a completely backward way, never finished college. Meanwhile, all these people next to me were talking, well, so I went and got this degree and I did this, that and the other. I'm like, so I did none of that. But here's what I can tell you. And I had this completely non traditional path, this completely non traditional trajectory, and looking at that list last night of all of the wins, the successes that.

Came out of those things, I wouldn't.

Change a damn thing. I wouldn't change. Hurt like hell.

But, you know, but it's interesting because there is, first of all, there's gonna be an echo on this podcast because what you just did and what you just said, I'm like, oh, I know that I am going to say something very similar, but in a very different way. So this is gonna be fun. But Liz, when I hear you say what you said, you're the one amongst others, that basically what I heard your answer was to them is, well, I failed my way to success. And there is a power internally that should come with being able to say that, because there's one thing to, like, just have overnight success, which by the way, usually doesn't happen and if it does, many times gets screwed up. But when you've had to go through the trenches, you've had to go through hundreds of hills and valleys, you've had to get punched in the face a thousand times, and you still arrive at the opportunity to speak to young minds and inspire, empower them. And part of the conversation is, I failed my way there. That's empowering.

I think the other thing that was really interesting too about that moment when I was speaking to those students is that nobody thought of what I was talking about as a failure. I think sometimes we carry these wounds within us of places where we fell short, places where we didn't do the thing, quote unquote, that we were supposed to do. And we have the expectation that people are going to hold us to those standards. And the students had incredible questions. So we're like, well, wow, you were self taught. What resources did you use? What certifications did you go after? If you were working from the time you were 19 until now, and now you're your own business owner and you are a respected expert in your field, what jobs did you take? What did you learn from them? And there was this really great girl who said, I already feel like I'm behind. And this 21 years old. She's like, if I don't get this internship and da, da, da first. Sweetheart, you are exactly where you're supposed to be. You are right on time. You have no idea what lessons you are going to learn and where you're going to learn them from. Do not panic if you don't have this figured out. At 21, I am 41 and we're still workshopping and focus grouping a few things. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. Listen, when I was on vacation, I was having a conversation with somebody and these words came out of my mouth, shoot, I'm 52. I still don't have it figured out. Like, that's the thing. You just need to realize it's one step at a time. It's one minute, one hour, one day, one week at a time. People have grit, which is important to this conversation. You build yourself in a way. You enable yourself with the superpower of being able to figure it out along the way. Now, here's the one thing I do want to pull out of what you just said. You talked about wounds that we carry around. And there's so many times that I've had to ask myself this and forgot to ask myself this. And I want to ask the listeners with this visual of wounds, these failures that you might be carrying around, you realize that you have Neosporin and band aids in your life, right? You realize that you can fix those wounds. They can be healed. You don't have to walk around this world with gaping holes in your life because you haven't taken the time to fix them. And that's the challenge that I would give the folks. If you're sitting here listening this and you've been beating yourself up because of perceived failures versus what we're about to get into when we talk about this conversation around failure, please do me a favor and heal. Take time to heal those. Listen to the words that we're about to talk and use those as the medicine for you to actually move forward in a very, I'll say, stronger, empowered way for the rest of your journey.

I'm observing a significant delta, a gap between how you used to think about failure and how you think about it now. So how would you define your relationship with failure now and what caused this change?

Yeah, so let's recall for a second, a couple minutes in the podcast, I said failure meant I was less than. Failure meant I was worthless. Failure meant I was a screw up, not lovable, likable. There was zero value that would be added to myself or the world. Because of these things. Your question now goes hand in hand with the question above, right? Because failure actually meant I was learning. And boy, during that seven year dark age period, I was learning fast. I was learning at hyperspeed. Because if you think like, boom, boom, boom, boom, failure, Fair, fair, fair learning. So instead of like having failures, I now call them life lessons or the ability to learn ways not to do things. But I gotta say that it's not only the ability to learn those lessons, but then change the strategy that I use the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 17th time that I go back at doing something. Failure also now means that I have ammo to help others in the future. Let me explain that because that's a little bit, kind of maybe of a weird concept. But one of the things that I think about with my stories and the reason that I was so just wanting to do this podcast is I feel like I have this belt of ammunition that I have been given these stories that these hells that I've had to go through that have been able to be turned into things that will help impact people's lives. And so I believe that many of the things that I've gone through in life. Liz, and I'll use air quotes here, even though you're probably listening and can't see me air quoting. These air quote failures have actually been by design to be then used as a tool to help others who cross my path, who have made the same failures and are struggling with the same internal thoughts and external actions in their life. Now, I don't want anybody listening to this to think that I've, you know, always thought of it this way. Like you said, there's a large delta like the way that I thought about failures and the way that I think about learning lessons or life lessons. Now it all changed for me because this was part of your question in about a 45 minute time frame. And I've mentioned Dave Wright on a historical podcast. Dave Wright was a pastor at Trinity Baptist in North Canton, Ohio, where we started to go to church by some, you know, interesting things that that happened. Go back and just listen to the episode. Anyway, I went from I'm not lovable, likable, I'm worthless to God is setting me up for a great success. I don't know what it is yet, but I realized something now at the beginning of this 45 minutes, I would say that I felt like trash. By the end of this 45 minutes, I realized that I was a treasure. Now, the title of the sermon was called Treasures in Trash Cans. And the concept was basically taking something that is trash and turning it into a treasure. And Dave, during this 45 minute period, used examples of things that could be considered trash, but when remanufactured actually become treasures. One of the ones that, and there's, there's multiple things, but one of the things that sticks to my mind and ladies and gentlemen, you can Google this after you get done listening to this episode is Kopi Luwak. Now, Kopi Luwak is just Google that in Google coffee. Because there's this little animal that goes around and eats the coffee beans. And they don't actually chew them, but they digest them. And there's enzymes that actually happen and interact with these coffee beans. Then they release them. In other words, they like poop them out.

What goes in must come out.

It must come out. The harvesters will then go around and get these beans and then they will be turned into coffee. And what you would think of because of this like, sort of gross process, those beans are trash. This coffee sells for hundreds of dollars, hundreds of dollars for small bags of it. Because.

Kidding.

I'm telling you, ladies and gentlemen, you can Google afterwards. It becomes a treasure. It becomes a treasure. But one would think of it as trash. And so he had all these examples of trash to treasure. Moments. I realized the realization in the 45 minutes in the examples that were being used is that I'm not trash, but I'm being molded, I'm being transformed into who I need to become. And I started to think about, and you've heard me, Liz, talk about life's chisels and hammers and how we're shaped with saws and things that are hard and hurt instead of like tissues and toilet paper. Our perceived failures are life's chisels, life's hammers being used to create the masterpiece that is us. My failures do not define who I am. How I learn from those failures and what I choose to do next does.

Meanwhile, I'm looking at a picture of this raccoon looking tree dweller. The common palm civet is the name of the animal that makes our fancy expensive coffee. If you think I won't be linking this in the show notes with absolutely no context whatsoever, you are wrong. You would be incorrect. I want to. Yes. And what you said. Yeah, because there's a part of me that is an absolute 100% agreement about what you were saying. That ability to contextualize failure and understand that. There's my favorite quote from Benjamin Franklin. Right. And, and I've mentioned this one to you, which is things which hurt.

Instruct.

Yes.

And there are ways to think about failures in which things that seem destructive are actually quite constructive. Like, there's another maxim you hear a lot thrown around. You know, rejection is redirection. You know, sometimes you don't end up with the things you want because those things were not meant for you. Right. But the reality is, is we have to confront the fact that in many cases, failure, it hurts like a bitch. It hurts a lot. And I wrote about this in the beyond your default letter newsletter last week about this idea of, like, you know what, guys? Sometimes things are just going to suck. And sometimes one of the most important parts of. Of the process is just being in the suck. I struggle with. And we're going to be talking about this in a future episode. Toxic Positivity has a long, insidious tale that reaches into a lot of different toxic behaviors in terms of how we treat our feelings and think about our feelings and how we look at the world. But in the context of failure, one of the things that I particularly, over this past year learned is that sometimes the best thing you can do is not try to make something constructive out of something. Maybe the reason why you are where you are in the first place is because you did not sit with uncomfortable feelings. Because I've noticed one of the things that at least I have had to work on is this idea of, I need to learn how to just be uncomfortable. I need to stop trying to remove pain. I need to stop taking actions from a place of, well, my fifi is hurt. I don't want to feel this way anymore.

I don't want to think about this thing anymore.

And so, George, my question to you is, how do you find that line for yourself of being in the suck constructively? Because sometimes you need to sit there and knowing when it is the time to reflect. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

I do. I do. It's funny because a couple things are coming to my brain. One, the song by Garth Brooks. Thank God for unanswered prayers. I don't know why it's coming to my brain, but, like, what a great title. Yeah, like, nah, you know, maybe those things that I wanted weren't meant for me. And thank you, because I know I was praying for this, but I got this and I'm in a way better place. And so the reason I'm bringing that up is there's a sense of just letting it do what it's supposed to do and having faith in the fact that it's going to be where it's going to be, and so are you. The other piece that's coming to my mind is like, we wouldn't do this other places in life, right? You're not gonna half bake a cake. It's gonna be crappy. Like, you're not gonna, you know, half build a model. You're gonna want to, like, take it to completion so you can see the beautiful work. I hate to use the term, but there's a lot of things in life that you're just not gonna do, like half ass. You're gonna go all the way. So why is it, when we're actually looking at the life lessons that we've been given, dare I say, blessings in future stories, that because we' to think of them in a certain way, that we run from them and only let them quarter bake or half bake instead of fully marinate? I don't know, maybe I'm hungry. I'm using, like, cooking analogies and marinate, whatever. It doesn't matter. First of all, Liz, we are uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. Failures hurt. They're painful. So the first thing that one would have to teach themselves to actually fully bake the cake, that is the failure, slash life lesson is to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations. The second thing, and part of that is that a human would have to realize and build out the understanding and steps of. Well, it's all part of the process. It's. It's all part of the process. It's supposed to be. And again, I'm leaning into the positive side of understanding. If. If I keep even the most grotesque thing that I think that I could ever do as a failure in life, if I can lean into the positivity and the lesson of it versus the negative and the gaping opened wound of it, now with a process and a mindset, I can navigate that pain.

This is one of those things where I love the Venn diagram of the way you and I think because we have distinct overlaps, but then there are distinct differences. I love the way you are phrasing that, but the way that looks like in my life is very different.

The way it looks like in my life for everybody.

Well, no, but, like, I'm not sitting here thinking, like, what is my failure cake going to look like? Like, I know you're not thinking that literally.

Yeah.

There's still an approach that is very open and welcoming in terms of how you think about failure in your life. Whereas mine is what I like to call the explosion rule, which is that if something is going catastrophically wrong in my life, in my head, I'm like, well, what are you gonna do? Explode? Six months from now, whatever this is will be over. You may have spicy new problems, but until then, you have to keep getting up and keep moving.

Yes.

And that is the thing I've noticed that has stood me in good stead the most in my life. When I think about failures and how I've moved through them. The key word there for me has always been move. You know, you can have your moment, you can have your SADs, but it's that where failure has become a destructive force in my life didn't really necessarily.

Have to do with the magnitude of.

The failure or what the failure actually was. It was how long I would allow myself to emotionally navel gaze about it.

You know, because I think there's something.

To be said for the fact of.

You know, when you have something happen in your life that is either a disappointment, a failure, whatever, you know what.

Two things can be true. You can have a growth mindset about.

Failure, and you can also honor the.

Feelings that you're having. You don't need to banish disappointment. Shame.

You're allowed to feel those feelings.

The thing that becomes destructive is when.

You create a monument or a sculpture.

Memorializing that perceived failure, and you just.

Continue to circle it and circle it and circle it, and you just don't move on.

There's a distinct before and after state where you got mentally stuck with the.

Thing that did not happen or did, did not go according to plan.

And that's where I think failure can become a derailing forces.

And I think we've all experienced this. You know, again, we're humans sometimes we're.

Going to fail at failing with growth.

You know what I mean?

That's fine. But that's where I've noticed things can get a little bit dicey, is where you just continue to stare at it.

As if staring at it is going.

To change what's happened.

It's interesting because you're unlocking in my brain, and I think it kind of goes with the conversation that we're going to continue to have here is like, it's a moment in time. And we all know that time flies by so quickly. At the beginning of the vacation that we kind of talked about at the beginning of this episode, you know, 10 days seemed like forever. We got to the end of it and we're like, wow, that flew by. Your failure is a moment in time. It could be a 15 minute, it could be a five second out of the 40, 50, 80, 90 years of your life. And Liz, like, you're saying, why in God's name are you making a memorial out of it? Why are you not just treating it like a mile marker of life and driving right on past it, 55 or 65 miles an hour and just heading on to the next piece, the next adventure, the next journey, the final destination. Like, why now? Or have you done a U turn? Can you imagine how ridiculous that would look? You're on the freeway, you're driving down the road of life, and all of a sudden you see a car just going around mile marker 657, just circling around 657. They can't leave it. They're just circling around it. Like, that's mentally mental, visual. You're like, yeah, that would be dumb. You're doing that with the crap that you think that you got wrong seven years ago, right now, listening to this. Why?

I know you've already talked about this a little bit, but I'd love to hear a bit more from you about what specific times in your life. Now, in hindsight, you're glad that failure occurred where you can point at something specific and say, glad that happened.

So it's funny because I mentioned earlier there's going to be an echo in this podcast. And I said, oh, that's fun. When you said, oh, I did this thing because if you remember, at the very beginning, ish, I said, seven years dark ages. Dropping out of high school, getting an honorable discharge, leaving Faith Ranch, losing several jobs, getting a divorce. Listen, if I didn't drop out of high school, I wouldn't have picked up the sponge mentality that I've been running with my entire life. We'll talk about that more in a future episode. I wouldn't have the fire in my belly that I've had for years, that have gotten me, or has gotten me to the place that I am now, of owning a business, employing an entire family, you know, having contractors, helping humans, being the HubSpot, whatever guy, being the beyond your default, you know, guy. Liz, like you said, I wouldn't be on this podcast, wouldn't be sitting here with you this morning if that didn't happen. I'm getting an honorable so happy, by the way, that that failure happened at this point in my life, getting an honorable discharge from the Navy. I would have stayed in for life. I wouldn't be on the journey I am now. I wouldn't have the wife, life or kids or business that I have now. I wouldn't be sitting here doing the podcast with you, right? So same narrative, same things. But I know that that wouldn't be happening. Leaving Faith Ranch, I would be stuck. By the way, this one was hard for me because while I was at Faith Ranch and I was doing things that I know were good things, I actually had a mentality that I've never really talked about ever with anybody that I'm going to share right now and that. That I was hiding. I thought I was going to be in the Navy for 20 years. I got an honorable discharge. I had almost died through that whole process. And I was hiding at Faith Ranch in Jude, Ohio, making $100 a month teaching kids how to ride horses and about Jesus. Because if I'm being honest with myself and everybody listening to this podcast right now, I was afraid of the real world. And this was a safe place. That's why I stayed there for three years. Not because I was doing this great grandiose, mission style thing. It's because I was scared shitless about, like, tagging back into life and happening to live in the real world. But if I didn't leave again, the things that I learned about myself, the places that I've been, it wouldn't happen. Losing several jobs, every single job I've had. As a lesson along the way, have you ever had one of those moments where all of a sudden you see, like, all the dots align in your, like, historical life and you get the, like, goosebumps and you're like, whoa, dang. I realized why I did this, this, and this. Why do I treat customers so good in the agency that we're building? Because I was in food service. I like, I understand how to treat customers in a certain way. Like, by the way, I would hire anybody who has been in food service and teach them how to do the things we do. Because I know there's a fundamental foundation there that just makes for a different human. Why do I understand sales? I was a furniture store salesperson and manager in my life. Why am I so passionate about, like, spiritual youth pastor? But that could be considered a massive failure. You're not leading a church anymore. You're not behind the pulpit anymore. No, but I use it daily. Daily. Why do I feel like I can do anything? Can't drop forge working at a steel mill if you've never worked at a steel mill. You don't understand. If you had a family member who has or you have, you can do any job, anything. So, like, each one of these, oh, I got fired or I got laid off or I chose to leave. It's all in there. It's all been manufactured into the thing that I need to be for the services and products that I'm providing at this point. Getting a divorce. My wife of almost now 24 years wouldn't be getting version 2.0 gbt model. If I didn't go through the divorce, she wouldn't be getting what she's getting. I know how marriages can break, so I'm paying attention to red flags and doing my part to keep us on track or on the tracks. Like historical life lessons, AKA failures. That's how I'm able to do all the things that I'm able to do. Not having direction in my life was one of the things that I said at the beginning of this podcast. If I didn't have to go through that failure, that phase of life, I wouldn't be hyper focused on vision, direction, goals, habits. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, probably much like you, I know what it's like to be lost in the wilderness and I don't ever want to be there again. But I can only do this. I can only have this exercise because I take time to think about it, diagnose it, let it bake, let it marinate, accept feedback through those processes of learning, and then can say these things that I'm saying now. I feel like you might have something that goes along with this. So what are your hindsight, happiness things?

I'm going to use the most recent one because I think first, I don't want to piggyback off of some of the examples you've given because I have a few that rhyme as well. You know, I'm, I'm only in the position I'm in professionally because of very specific things that as well, you know, I'm in the position I'm in professionally because of very specific things that happened. Things that I actually looked down on myself for when I was younger. You know, that was something I discussed with the students at Quinnipiac. But if we want to take a look, let's just, let's just look at the messy, the ick. The divorce, right? And it happened twice. It happened twice with the same person, which is always a bit of a gut punch sometimes to think about. And then I'm glad I went back and without getting too into the nitty gritty details of it.

When we split up the first time, I don't think I really understood why I knew something was wrong. I did not know how to articulate it. My intuition was screaming that, you know, just every Possible red flag. Every flashing warning light was going off and screaming at me. And that, quite frankly, was why I left the first time. It was only in going back after having spent a year apart during the pandemic. It was interesting. We split up and then the pandemic occurred and then we reconciled. There were things I was not prepared to acknowledge. I could feel what was wrong, but I did not know what was wrong. And only in going back was I able to say that's what I was feeling, that's what I was seeing. Because in that year, I learned to listen to myself. I learned to ask more questions with confidence. I cared more for myself and about myself. I didn't like myself very much for a very long time. And because I went back and because I did it again, and then we split up again, it gave me a chance to finally resolve some very deep seated issues that I had not addressed. There is a cycle with women in my family around unhealthy relationships. And it was something I had never confronted within myself. It was something that I knew I had. You know, we've talked about this before on the show. My upbringing was complicated and I have a lot of love for my parents, but it was, let's just call it complicated. And it was painful. And those were issues I always talked about in therapy, but with it through a lens of hindsight. And then there was this moment when I was sitting with my therapist and she said, you have to realize that the issues of abuse you have seen as in your past is very much in your presentation. And we need to talk about that now because this is not behind you. This is with you. I share this because again, like the joke I made earlier, right? Like it's a. I meant, you know, make the same soul crushing mistake twice. Why not just call me Liz Taylor? But I don't regret it. I don't regret going back. I don't regret trying again. Because as complicated as things were, you know, this was someone who I had known since I was 17 years old. I would rather fail at it than say I didn't try. But also I can see now that idea of connecting the dots. I would be doomed to repeat the same mistakes, to repeat the toxic relationship cycles that have plagued me my entire life. Other women in my family as well. This is not new.

Yeah.

And I didn't see it. I could feel it, but I didn't see it. And then I saw it. And it gave me a chance. Like I loved what you said about GBT 2.0 would never have been possible I'll admit, when I was sitting with my therapist, I said, oh, my God, how can I ever trust my instincts about men again? She's like, well, you're not supposed to right now. You shouldn't be dating anybody right now. You should focus on work and health and, like, getting your life together and things like that. But I don't feel that way now. You know, you have to be able to confront and sit in the suck and do the work. But that's the biggest dot that connected for me. I feel like I have a second chance to get this right in a way that probably would never have been possible. I would have just continued to travel the same path, wondering why everything hurts a damn much.

So good. Thanks for sharing that. I know there's going to be a lot of listeners that just get good stuff from what you just shared, so I love that.

Gosh, I hope so. I hope so. So, okay, I want to pivot here a little bit because so much of what we talked about in terms of failure has to do with mindsets and how you're taking a look at the circumstances that are currently in front of you. So, George, what do you see as the key differences between folks who are able to bounce back from failures and those who who get stuck?

Yeah, and I feel like this is the part of the podcast where I take my wicker basket and just dump a couple things out on the floor for people to look at and grab for what makes sense for them.

Grab your notepad and pens, folks. This is that time of the episode.

Yep, this is the time.

Here we go.

So the first thing that comes to mind is just the ability to have grit. And what I mean by that, and the pure definition is courage and resolve, strength of character. Like, you have to have courage to go through the messy middle to go through the suck. You have to have that resolve and strength of character to get. Get back up and keep going. You, Liz had said, like, just keep moving. Just keep moving. Listen, when you get punched in the freaking face, you have two choices. Get up or stay on the freaking mat. That's it. And if you have grit and that courage and the resolve and strength of character, you get back up and you get back up and you get back up. But, ah, if you just get back up and let them throw the same punch and punch you in the face and you get back on the mat, then we've got a problem. And so with that grit and courage and resolve and strength of character, I think something that we've talked about though, and we have to have as a superpower is this learner's mindset. Being able to learn from how we just got punched in the face, have the courage and resolve to then try again. But with the feedback loop and understanding of that, oh, when they're gonna throw a right hook of life, they step forward with their left foot, Let me watch for the weight to shift, and understand that I need to do this thing. So that's the exterior part of it, right? A learner's mindset, paying attention, making it different. The second, third, seventh time you try it. There's an internal piece, though, that we have to hit on this, and that is the forgiveness of yourself. You even reference when you're talking to your therapist, what you thought was in your past is in your presentation. We have a great graphic for the baggage that we carry around for one of our episodes. It's in the present because you brought it with you. And I'm not talking to you, Liz. I'm talking to the listeners. It's in your present because you didn't set it down. So episode 15, the Power of Forgiveness, part two. The healing power of forgiving ourselves like grit, Forgiveness, a learner's mindset, and then a healthy dose of just patience, being patient, letting the cake bake. Liz, when I was listening to your story, I was like, she had to go back to read the final chapter so she knew how the book ended. Like, that's literally the mental visual that I was getting in my brain. As you're sharing your story, we have to have patience to get through the thing, patience to learn through the thing, patience to figure out the strategy based on the thing. The other piece that I want to throw out here, and this is hard for many. I know it was for me early in life, but I have this. I'll call it a thread. I have a healthy disbelief in chance, and I am completely bought into certainty. Now I want you to think about that for a second. I don't think things happen by chance. I think there is a destiny and a journey that each and every one of us are on. So there are certain things that are going to come. And the fact that you just think you accidentally made a failure, an issue, you accidentally had success. No. No chance. So a healthy disbelief in chance and a completely bought into certainty. When I talk about this, and hopefully this makes sense, I am. I will. And not if, but when. Okay, I am statements. I am going to be successful. I am not a failure. I am to empower, to fuel, to rev up. I will be A business owner. I will add value to the world. I will. It's the action of the I am, I am to empower, I will to act. And not if, but when. Meaning I'm not sitting around wondering, maybe wishy washy, but when. When I see the right moment, the right time, the I am is empowered and the I will will take place. Now if you think about where I'm dancing around, many of you have seen Groundhog style movies. Literally, there's a Groundhog Day movie that you could be thinking about right now. But there's a style in which they try, try, try again. And for about the first seven to 15 minutes of the Try, Try Again, they try it the same damn way and it doesn't work out. They keep making the same failures. It's like they're hitting their head against a brick wall because try, try again isn't really it. What's it if you think about chance, certainty, I am, I will not if, but when. It should be try, feedback, learn, try again. Try, feedback, learn, try again. You see, the first one, try, try, try again is a brick wall. Try, feedback, learn, try again is the open road that you're trying to drive down as you're seeing people circle around mile marker 657 and you're on your way to a life beyond your default.

You know, your answer reminded me of one of my favorite Latin phrases, which is astra inclenant sed non obligant, which means wow. The stars incline us, but they do not bind us. Which means I don't care whether you think about the occurrences in your life as fate, God, the universe, chance, life will serve up experiences, but it is up to you how you decide to act upon those things. My life got infinitely easier, particularly when it came to failure, when I stopped living with the expectation that something outside of myself was going to make my life, life more comfortable. Because I think particularly when it comes to failure, we will take them personally. It's not, it's just life like peaks and valleys, but it really is up to us to make the decision around what role failure plays in our life. Like I had this one client a few years ago where he said something just we were talking about. He was a Silicon Valley founder type, but one of the types of people who call themselves an entrepreneur. And it doesn't make me want to dry heaven to a paper bag because I know they're just going to spend many hours talking about things. I don't care. He's just this incredible man and one of the things he Said is, I learned early on not to think of failure as fatal. Instead, I learned to look at failure as an indication of what I'm supposed to do next. And I just thought that was absolutely perfect. I have a question for you, George.

Yeah.

What's worse than failure, man?

So can we actually rewind though, for a second and then I can answer that question?

Yeah, absolutely.

Because my fear is that people are running from failure. My fear is that when they fail, they don't know how to process it. So let me just bite off a little piece here that's running in my mind about the idea of you're running from failure because you don't think, think that you're allowed to fail, which means you're running from the life lessons that are going to turn you into who you need to become, which means you're being counterproductive to yourself, which is really kind of a weird paradigm to get into. I, I want to set you free for the choices that you make in life to potentially lean into failing, to, like, live on the edge, to, to, to go in the direction that is scary and uncomfortable, but is very, very rewarding. And there's, there's two things that I want people to think about. The one thing that I want you to start to run through your mind instead of running from failure is turn, face it, and say, what do I have to lose? It's a very freeing statement, by the way. What do I have to lose? And actually give yourself time to bake through that. What? What? You have time to lose? And what if. What if it goes absolutely insanely amazing what if? Right. So what do I have to lose? And what if. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because when we made the choice to start George B. Thomas LLC and go out on our own, man, that could be a massive failure. Like, there's bills to pay, there's kids that need to eat. There's like a hundred thousand reasons why I should stay at my job, keep my insurance, continue to add to a 401k, and do everything that the world tells me that I should do to be air quotes successful and run away from the fear of failure as fast as I can. But I'll never forget when my wife and I started to talk about that decision and I said these words, well, babe, I can always go back and get a job. What do I have to lose? I can always go back and get another job. What if this goes extremely amazing in a direction that we can't even fathom right now? Right. So those Literally, the things that I said to pay attention to or the things that I did. And if I hadn't faced and run into failure, there would be no beyond your default. There would be no sidekick strategies coming. There would be no success stories of George B. Thomas, llc. They're like, none of that would be happening if I didn't face the failure and then realize, if I fail, I go get a job. I've been working for people my entire life. It wouldn't be anything different than it was before. See, that. That's the thing. I think people give failure too much weight. Okay, so what's worse than failure? You. You asked me that. Not trying, living small, staying safe. Like, those three things right there are worse than failure. Living on the edge, leaning into failure, getting life lessons, always realizing that building yourself into the best you is going to be through hard times. Because it's the hard times that actually forge us into who we become after that fact. That's the growth model. That's the growth path. That's how you become an anomaly, something special. That's how you become the 1%. By facing fear, by leaning in to what the world might call failure and seeing what can happen on the other side. What if. But if you're going to be like, I shouldn't try, and I'm just gonna stay here in my safe space at Faith Ranch for three years because I'm afraid of the world, that's way worse than any failure that I've ever had to face.

I want to point to something you said, because I think there's another side to it. You talked about this idea of, you know, running from the failures and the importance of keeping that momentum, moving forward, keeping yourself moving forward. I think there is something to be said for the fact that everybody needs to develop some sort of internal audit to understand what is actually happening in front of you. Because I think sometimes when we experience a failure or whatever, the catalyst moment that is occurring in front of you, that is creating a negative feeling. Those initial feelings that we have can create aversions to seeing what is actually happening. And that makes it impossible to process and actually keep moving forward in a productive way. Because I will tell you, I had spent decades being someone who is forward, moving tons of momentum, building myself up, developing my own career. Meanwhile, I was running like a bat out of hell away from problems, and I was not addressing them. And then I was just shocked, taken aback when the Piper came to collect right after I turned 40 and everything started slowly falling apart. Now, granted it part of that had to do with me going back, trying that marriage a second time. But there were a bunch of other things that I had spent a lot of time running from because I was, quote, unquote, moving forward. And so I think when we think about how we look at failures in our lives, we have to have those internal audit structures where we stop and we set aside the aversion feelings and say, what is actually happening here? How did we get here?

Yeah, My brain is so weird sometimes. I don't understand my brain. But as you're talking through this, and I don't know why, Liz, but I'm just tied to, like, visuals all the time. And for some reason, there's two visuals that are coming to mind. Like, if you've ever lived in a house where you've got, like, the tall carpet, like, you know, and you move it one way and it looks dark brown or dark. Dark blue, but then you move it another way and it's like, light blue, and you're like, oh, God, how did that. Dark and light and dark, and it's the same carpet, but it's the angle in which you're looking at it that it looks completely different colors. Right? And so when we get into these failures, what's the different angle that. Is it really dark or is it really light? Is it really negative or is it really positive? How am I looking at it in the right way? Like, my brain goes in that direction. The other thing that came flying in my brain for some reason is, have you ever seen one of those cups? And I think I'm getting two visual analogies because I know there's different types of humans that are going to be able to grab one of these and roll with it. But have you ever had one of those cups where it's, like, a thing, but then you fill it up with, like, a cold beverage and all sudden stuff just shows up on the cup that wasn't there before because the temperature change. And now it's like a completely different scene than it was, like, 30 seconds ago. Or, like, hot? Like, are you living life at the right temperature? Are you hot enough to see what you need to see? Are you staying back and being safe and being too cold? Right. So is it negative or positive? Is it hot or cold? Are you lukewarm in the middle? Like, there's just these things when it comes to failure and these visuals of perception and direction and just stop and take time to think about those. I don't know. Use those visual tools if they work for you. If they don't email me, be like, dude, you're weird.

The cup analogy worked for me.

There we go.

Big fan.

There we go.

Big fan. So let's stay on this path a little bit. How can someone who struggles with fatalistic or catastrophic thinking work to shift their perspectives on failure?

Yeah, I'll keep this simple. During the process of doing these episodes, Liz gives me some research, things that I can look at and read, and then I go watch some videos and I think about stuff internally. For this, there was a tidbit of information out of the research that I was like, oh, I really like this. I want to make sure that we talk about this. So reframing your failures as great content can help you bounce back. Now I know why this hit me so much. Because I love creating content. I love creating videos. I love creating blog articles. If you asked me if I was a marketer or a content marketer, I would lean more into. I'd probably be a better content marketer. Although now I'm a business owner and so I do marketing, sales, and everything. Anyway, but reframing your failures as great content can help you bounce back. Rather than trying to forget or gloss over mishaps, use them in the story of your career. That's what they said. I'll add in. Or use them for the story of your life. Okay, but this was career focused. But career or life, don't gloss over them. Use the mishaps for the story of your career life. Experiencing failure and sharing your lessons humanizes you. By the way, they didn't say this part. This is my words. What are other humans hungry for? Other authentic humans. So sharing your hurts, sharing your pains, sharing the lessons learned from the failures that you've been able to go through makes you more human. I'm like, oh, I love this so much. It can help you find common ground with others. What do we want from my words, by the way? We want to feel connected. So you mean to tell me that the failures that I go through are going to make me more human and make me more connected to the humans that I actually want to have in my life? Then why am I running away from them? Okay, back to their words. Once you're bouncing out of a dip, look for ways to tell your story in an inspirational way. Perhaps one that boosts your personal brand. Have you listened to the podcast called beyond your default? Like, we're literally creating content in a very human way to connect others to us and their best selves. And are we telling inspirational stories and inspirational. I think so. And so not Only does this help your cause, but it helps others, too. That's where their words end. And when I read that, Liz, I was like, servanthood through your lessons learned, servanthood through your failures. And looking at life through this lens of servanthood through lessons learned and servanthood through failures, it's easy for me to say, man, I love my failures. I love everything that I've ever failed at in life up until this point. And I can't wait to love the failures that I have in the future.

I want to add two things to that. There's a flip side to this failure conversation that we haven't really touched upon yet. So I'm going to touch upon it here. This is something I have a little bit of experience with. There are too many times I have thought I have failed in my life, and I didn't actually fail. I either fell short of somebody else's arbitrary standards and considered their perspectives and their worldviews as superseding my own. Where in hindsight, I look back and go, wow, I actually did really well. There I was giving someone else permission and ownership over defining my life experience. I was giving my power away because depending on who you ask in my life, terrible daughter, terrible student, lousy wife, like, you can look back and you, you have to ask yourself, either circumstantially in this moment or as a pattern throughout your life, are you allowing the wrong people to define what is success and what is failure? Because I will tell you right now, if I were to talk to my dad and talk about how proud I am of where I'm at, sure he'd probably think, well, she didn't run everything into the ground, but I would still be a failure. That is approval. I would never get in that very hypothetical scenario because that, you know, that is not a conversation that could happen now. But when we think about failure, who are we allowing to decide what is and is not a failure in our lives? So that's number one, because I think we spent a lot of time talking today about failures that are actually we done screwed up. Up.

Yeah.

Or something did not go according to plan. And that is factual. But there are also perceived failures where it's because someone else is defining for us what is success and failure. And it is not based on your values or principles or your own measuring stick, carry your own ruler, cupcakes. And that is what you use to measure.

And it's not even really that they're defining. We're allowing them to define what we're giving away.

Our power.

Yes, yes. And I wanted to tie back into that. Just carry your own ruler. That should be a hashtag.

Maybe that is the measuring stick that you need. Number two. Some of the biggest and most painful failures I experienced in my life, particularly those in the past couple of years, were born of the fact that I was chasing after things that never belonged to me. They were not supposed to be mine. And I'm not sitting here saying like, well, I was trying to go, you know, I saw a necklace and it didn't belong to me and I tried to steal it and I failed. That's not what I mean. Think it. Let me use a very heavy handed analogy here. A dog will have a hundred percent failure rate at trying to be a cat. Can't do it. Oh yeah, it's really good at being a dog.

Yeah.

What things in your life are you reaching for that are simply not the right fit for you because you were trying to be someone other than yourself? And this is something I struggled with for a really long time because I had these wounds where I didn't like myself very much. I really struggled to look in the mirror and see something worthy or someone worthy or in a value, someone lovable and worth loving. I would try to be versions of myself that I thought would be palatable, that I thought were the quote unquote right versions of Liz. So I would go after certain types of clothes, certain types of cars, certain types of decisions, like on paper. This time last year I had a perfect life. And I was the most miserable, hollow and alone I have ever been. I had never known such soul crushing anguish without shedding a tear or being able to articulate what it was. Because I had spent my entire life building a life that was not meant for me. I had left no room for the love and fulfillment I had so desperately sought out my entire life because I was so afraid I wasn't going to have it. I filled my life with stuff and with people and with things and with distractions that were not meant for me. And then I failed at a significant portion of it. But that's because I was a dog trying to be a cat instead of just being like the best dang dog I could possibly be. So those are my, my two little footnotes there.

Oh wow, I love that. I love that so much. I'm sitting here and my brain is battling because I can think back to so many times in my life that I was trying to be instead of just being. It's almost like that whole thing that you're sharing was like, punch me in the face of, like, because you're trying to be and you're grabbing the wrong things. You can't just be and actually have the right things that you've already been given and use the things that you've already been given and who. Yeah, I don't know. There's something going on in the brain. I feel like we might have to unpack back that a little bit more in a future episode. But, man, that was. Liz, that was really powerful. I love that.

All right, George, you ready for the final question of today?

I am.

All right, It's a doozy. What would a life completely devoid of failure look like?

Yeah, well, first of all, ladies and gentlemen, punchline, There is no such thing. Like, you can't have a life devoid of failure. It's like, it's just not gonna happen unless you are just mentally. I don't know. I don't even know what you would have to. Have to believe that you've never made a failure. Like, to me, to answer the question, it would be boring, and I would feel like I'm stuck on again, that mile mark or 657, just going in a circle, not learning anything, not doing anything, not, like, achieving anything. And to be honest with you, it was. Would suck, in my opinion. Liz, there's a quote by Napoleon Hill where I think ties into this. Every adversity, every failure, every heartache carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit. Every adversity, every failure, every heartache carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit. Listeners, when I think about that, I want to have failure moments in life so that I can collect the seeds, so that I can plant them and nourish them and benefit from the fruit of the tree and the shade of the tree. Heck, this tree just might be that tree or set of trees that I keep talking about in these episodes where I'm like, go lean against the base of a tree and do xyz. Dependent upon the episode, maybe a failure that you have had is the seed for your tree to sit at the base of and plan for this exciting adventure. This adventure, this journey of living a life beyond your default.