LIVE Sales Role Playing Exercise and Selling to Value with David Weinhaus

Alright, everyone, welcome to Agency Journey. I'm Andrew, So excited to have David Winehouse on with us today. David, how you doing, man?

Very good to be here, Andrew.

Love it, love it. Today we're gonna be digging into a lot of topics around agency sales. But before we jump into kind of the blocking and tackling, David, would you give folks who haven't heard your name before kind of a quick one minute overview of who you are and how you got here today?

Yeah. So my name is David Winehouse. First of all, I'm very excited to be here. I'm a big fan of the podcast. So as I was telling Andrew, being able to like converse and talk back now to the podcast. Raise the roof, baby. So my name is David Winehouse. I lead partner sales enablement at HubSpot. What that means is I lead a ton of groups working with agencies on improving their sales skills. So specifically, how can they dig deeper for pain, how can they sell more value and how can they have more of a structured sales process? My background is I've been before in this role. I was doing sales for HubSpot for five or six years, first selling directly to customers and then I work with a ton of agency partners. So if any of you are out there. Hello. That I've worked with before. Hello. To help them sell. Prior to that, I don't really have a sales background. So that's one of the things that may be a little bit interesting about my story is that I come from more of a marketing background. I was in corporate marketing for UPS for a number of years and prior to that I was developer. What? Yes, I was developer back in the day. Right, right. Basic and I don't know all these other languages. Right. Years ago. Can you believe it?

That's crazy, man.

So I never thought in a million years, like if you told me I would be selling, much less like helping people to sell, I would have never believed it. I didn't have the greatest impression of salespeople until I had to sell. Right.

That's when it typically changes. Right. These people aren't so bad.

Exactly. Until suddenly I'm the one picking up the phone and calling. And that's because I started a couple businesses leaving ups. I got into the freight world a little bit, started my own business. And you know, Andrew, when you run your own business, you're doing everything and that includes selling. So I found out there were parts of it I was really awful at, like, you know, just showing up and like, you know, schmoozing people. That that was Never my strength. But then there were parts of it that I was really good at, which was kind of figuring out product market fit and who would be most interested in this specialty that I was selling. And I was also really good at being helpful and problem solving. And the longer I did it, and particularly when I came to HubSpot, it all kind of clicked together that, that, that is selling. It's not that schmoozing part. Oh, that doesn't hurt. But, you know, you got to go with your strengths. And, you know, a big part of sales is that problem solving and being helpful. And I found out I was good at it and I wanted to share it with others. And so that's what got me to my current position.

That's awesome, man. Well, I'm glad you're here because you've helped a lot of people along the way. We want to talk today kind of focused in on value selling. And so just to kind of open this topic up for people who aren't familiar with it, when we talk about value selling for agencies, what are we going for? Like, what's the shift? So.

First of all, I like to think about what are we selling? So I mentioned before product market fit. So the first thing we got to understand is what are we actually selling as agencies when we're going out? And a lot of people think that we're selling SEO or social media, where we're selling ebooks or blogs or landing pages, but guess what? We're not selling those things. What? Surprise, right? So what do you think, Andrew? I'll give you my answer in a second. But at the end of the day, like, if you were to come up with one word or a couple words on what we're selling, what. What do you think that I'd say we're selling?

A desired outcome.

Okay, very good for most businesses. All businesses are a little different. We adapt. But what are some of those outcomes?

So if you're an 8, if you're. If you're a digital agency you're selling, would it be increased revenue at the end of the day? So you think about who am I talking to? I'm talking to the CEO of a business. Like, what gets them up in the night and how do I help them get from that kind of state right now to where they want to be? Where do they want to be? Like, I'm selling them that place. I'm not selling them tactics. Selling a destination.

That's awesome. That's absolutely right. And we have to know those tactics, and we'll weave them into the conversation and they're a means to an end. But at the end of the day, we're selling exactly what you're talking about. We're selling outcomes. And I like to think of it, if I had to summarize it in one word, it would be growth. Because generally the folks that I'm working with, they're looking for growth. So whether that growth means revenue or customer acquisition or larger market share, whatever the really key measurables are, that's what we're ultimately selling to folks. And so that that's where we have to start from when we're talking about selling value. So I'm not talking about selling the value of an ebook or the value of a blog. What I'm selling is the value of my ability as a partner with you, Mr. Client, to sell growth and what actually matters to you.

That's a transformation for a lot of people. Like, I know, like from, from my days at Guava Box, walking in early on, we would go in there and pitch like the deliverable menu. Like, here's all the cool stuff I know how to do that I can do for you. Like, why, why didn't they want to sign?

Right, right, right.

Why am I walking out of here with my tail between my legs?

Exactly, exactly. Or sometimes you can sell that stuff too. Right? But the challenge is how do you grow it? Right? Like, and is it getting you with the right client? So, you know, one of the things is going back to product market fit. There's a time and a place for everything. And so if you have a client that's very deliverable, focused, they want a specific set of tasks and they have a budget and it's good business for you, I would never tell an agency, don't take that business. All right? If you can bill based on hours, or you can build based on price, or you can build flat fee on a deliverable, there's good margin for you. Go ahead and do it and take the business down. But generally, if we're looking to grow our agencies and grow in our business, we're trying to align with clients who are looking to grow ultimately and align ourselves with that and get recognized for the growth that we can help to contribute. So I'm a big proponent of leading with that philosophy and looking for clients who are trying to grow and then sell our value in being able to help them grow. That makes sense.

Makes sense to me. But let's dig into it because it might be a new concept for some people. How do you like when you're working with agencies kind of in the trenches. How do you help shift the mindset from I'm selling this stuff that I do to I need to sell growth to the person I'm talking to.

Yeah. So part of it is it's not just. It is a mindset from an agency perspective, and we talked a little bit about that, but it's also understanding from the prospect's perspective what growth means to them and if they're invested in growth. So that's maybe the question. Yeah, I see your eyebrows raised. That's maybe the question that we. How do we do that with a client? Right. Prospect, I should say.

Yeah.

Because not all prospects are coming in saying, I want to grow. How can you help me to grow? Right. More than likely they're saying, hey, Andrew, you know, we got this website here, and we're hoping for some more leads or we're hoping for prettier pictures and nicer buttons. How much does it cost me to have you guys help me do that?

Yeah. Yeah. That's a big shift. Like, that's a huge change because you're telling them, like, hey, what you think you need, you don't actually need. Like, let's take a step back and figure out, where are we going with this?

Yeah, where are we going? Right. So we might say, what does growth look like to you? Or that may be a little bit too broad and too vague. Right. Maybe if we want to get a really confused look back for our prospect. Right. We could say they're like, so let's run with that for a second. So, Andrew, we can flip this if you want, but I'm a prospect and I say to you, hey, Andrew, I need better buttons on my site because I need more leads. How much? I saw you guys have some cool stuff on your site. Can you guys do some work for us? How much does that cost for you guys to help us with that?

Well, first of all, Mr. Prospect, let's take a step back. When you say you want more leads.

Yeah.

What do more leads mean for you?

Well, you know, I got sales guys. I'm always trying to team my sales guys up with new sales opportunities. So, you know, more leads the better. Andrew, Always more leads the better.

So is it just a volume play for those sales folks? Are they looking for a specific type of person? Like when. If they get a list of people, like, who's the first person they want to talk to, what's that lead look like?

Well, you know, in our manufacturing business, we're looking generally for, like, you know, Facilities managers who are looking for new equipment for their plant, you know, particularly our food processing equipment.

Okay, so food processing. And how are those leads coming to the sales team right now?

Like, how do they find my sales guys? They're pretty hustle. You know, they hustle for the most part. Like, you know, I don't hire the newbies out of school. Hire the, you know, the more experienced guys. So I'm telling them, man, I don't want to see you in the office. You should be out, you know, on the golf course. You should be buying lunch for people. I give them a nice little expense budget. So, you know, got to do what you got to do if you're in sales.

So they're out there grinding. They're working the leads. They're earning the leads. What would it mean for them if you could give them those people teed up, like, you knew how to attract the right type of person that they're trying to.

Yeah, well, I mean, that would be awesome. You know, like, I do want them out hustling and stuff, but expense budget adds up, you know, and then they got to travel, and they want to go, you know, take a plane, flight to meet in front. So, you know, if we get leads coming into our website, that would be. That's why I'm interested in doing this, because, a. I also like to hire some more junior guys as well who don't have the same Rolodex, though. Older guys are expensive.

Yeah.

People perspective.

And what happens when they run out that Rolodex?

Right. Absolutely, man. Then they just got to hustle more. I'm tired of yelling at those guys, you know?

Exactly. So what you can do from the website side of things is it's not just about the button.

It's not just about the picture.

We've got to pull this thing back and figure out who are we trying to talk to? Where are they hanging out? How do we attract them in?

Exactly. And that's the conversation. Nice. Well done, Andrew.

That's the first live role play here on the podcast.

Oh, baby. There we go. Like, Andrew right in the boat, man. And he's like. He's answering the call, Right? So that was good. So what I like about what you did is you talked about not just the leads, but what it meant for the business, the value for the business to get those leads, and how it mattered for his salespeople. And I was starting to drop some value stuff is there that, you know, if this were a longer conversation, Andrew would have probed into. So for Instance, if I can hire junior salespeople instead of senior people, like the dollar signs or the signal should be going off in your head, there's value to be created there. Right. If my sales guys can sell with more velocity, Right. Because they don't have to fly or, you know, they can make use of their time better, there's value to be created there.

Yeah.

So we are hearing all that stuff, and we're eventually going to tie it together for them. Ask other questions. Absolutely. Ask them the questions we're not pitching. Andrew wasn't pitching me, you know, landing pages there. He was talking to me about what I was ultimately trying to accomplish. Now, there are a couple other things that I recommend folks look for as they're having that value conversation where this might have played out if we. If we had more time to do this. So the first is that I really recommend going towards is what. What is. Does the business owner have a value? Do they have a goal? Rather so. So one of the areas that we might have gone in is to. So you're trying to generate more leads for your business. Do you have a business plan you're working towards this year? What's your nut? What are you trying to get to? And then I want to know, okay, that's cool. Is that easy? Is that medium, or is that hard? This is a Dan Tire question for those of you guys that know Dan Tire. Is that easy, medium or hard? Right. Or my variation of the question is, if we weren't having this conversation today and you were to go about doing what you're doing, maybe a little bit smarter and a little bit harder than last year, but how close would you get to that number on your own? Right. And then when do you got to get it? You got to get it by December. That's cool. Why? I mean, if you got it by March of next year, is that. Is that okay? Or does that have. Would that have consequences for your business? Or if you could get there in October, like, what would that mean for your business? And what we call this in the training, we call it finding the gap. Right. And we're not just hearing pain, but we're actually trying to quantify and figure out what the gap is.

Yeah, seriously. Because the gaps, what's going to motivate the action? Right. Because if they could do it by themselves.

That's right.

Why don't you just keep doing what you're doing?

You ever asked that question in a sales call, Andrew?

I have. Like, why not just keep doing what you're doing? Like it sounds, you're telling me you're good, like, right? You get on like certain personalities, they think that they're up here and you're seeing that they're down here and you're like, how do I show them the difference without just telling them, here's everything you're missing? Because when I tell them, then I have to defend it. And that's like, that's not fun.

No, make them defend it.

Right, exactly.

What happens when you ask them that question? If everything's working, why don't you just keep doing what you're doing? What happens when you ask them that?

Usually this just silence.

Silence, right? Well, I don't know. And then the clouds open and the angels start singing and their face changes. Right. And they start to defend their trade shows or their pay per click and they can't even do it for like three seconds. And then, you know, they're like, you got me, right?

Bingo. Bingo. So from like let's say we've got, we want to have more of these value type conversations, right? What do, like, what are some things that agency owners do to tee these up? Because if I've got people, the only thing they're coming to me for is web design. And I want to have bigger conversations. Like, does that start on the discovery call? Like, where how do I begin to position my agency to have these higher level sales calls?

Yeah. So it really does start in the discovery process. Like if you're, if you're waiting till you're, till you get into the pricing standpoint, you have a list of deliverables that you talked about and now you want to incorporate value pricing like it's too late. Right. Because now you're just left at pricing deliverables and then now you're using value pricing and it's out of sync and you're going to get questions and it's a weird dance to do. So it starts at the very beginning of the sales process. So for instance, I want to give a shout out here because I presented on this whole topic of value selling recently, or really I facilitated the discussion with a partner, a friend of mine, Keith Gutierrez Magility. And Keith wants to work with businesses who are looking to grow at least a million dollars in annual revenue over the next year. Okay. So that, that's from day one. And he's not shy about saying that to a business. And that goes back to what we would call like a positioning statement. So you might even say very, you might say on the connect call, even, Mr. Prospect, we specializes in working with businesses who are serious about growth, most of them are looking to grow a million dollars or significantly more over the next year. They realize that their systems are working well, but not well enough to get them to that point, and they're looking for some innovative sales and marketing solutions that can help them to get to that goal. Yeah, so he's teeing up the value of what he's doing. He's not talking about how they provide landing pages or blogs or ebooks or even leads. He's talking about the growth and the type of businesses that they're looking for.

And I think what's cool about that value statement is that it's completely focused on the type of prospect that you help or the type of client you want to help transform. So it's almost an aspirational statement as well for the prospect who's listening to it. Like, oh, I want to be focused on growth. Like, you're, like, telling, these are the people that I work with, and now you have to level up to that rather than saying, I do all of these things and here's how cool my Facebook ad guy is. And, like, here's how slick my websites look like totally different.

You're focused on your prospect and their pains and their aspirations versus focused on your boom. Exactly. And the other thing is, if you're in front of a prospect who doesn't. Who isn't driven to grow a million dollars next year, that's nice to have. But they. Then they might say, but what do you do with websites? Or what do you do with this? And he might say, listen, that's great, but that's not really what we do. Yeah, right. Or I might do that, But I'll tell you up front, like, that's not what I'm building my business on. We're really good at it, but we're not gonna be the cheapest person that you're looking for, because that's. You know, we're ultimately looking to help folks grow. So you can have that conversation much earlier rather than three hours down the road, you know, when you find out they're not calling you back or they're trying to nickel and dime you on pricing. You know, you've set your kind of stakes in the ground in terms of what you're looking for.

So I've got a question now on finding value in the process. So, like, asking those type of questions, like, ele. Elevating their mindset to that bigger level, getting them out of the deliverable mind to. Then pricing with value in mind, how does this idea impact the way agencies price the service and present price to prospects in the process?

Yeah. So one of the things that we talk about a lot in the classes called Project lion, by the way, our Project lion boot camps that we have. Do you know why we call it Project lion, by the way?

No.

No. All right, Because I got to tell everybody, because we hunt as a pack, right? We do small groups. We do this together, we hunt as a pack, we learn together. Plus we're fierce, right? Love it. We don't turn our prospects into prey, by the way. We turn them into lions as well. So anyway, so it's the Project lion boot camp. So we talk a lot about value and anchoring value. So for instance, if I have someone and they said, yeah, we have a business plan and, you know, our nut is million and a half dollars this year, but we can close some of that on our own. What we really need is a million. We need to find a million dollars in growth. All right, so we've. We've established that that's why they're looking for leads. One of my favorite questions in the sales process is, that's great. You're. You need to find. It sounds like you need to find a million dollars in growth. Like that's a serious target for you. What were you hoping to invest? Or what were you thinking of investing in order to drive that million dollars in new incremental growth?

That's a great question. Write that one down, people.

But I have to have earned the right to ask that question, meaning I have to understand what their gap is. If I don't know what their gap is, I can't just say, what were you hoping to invest next year on your website or in lead generation? Because I haven't. There's nothing to back up that question. I have to. I want a number, right? I want to quantify. I don't want a number. What were you hoping to invest? And kind of like your previous question, the answer back is that. Pause.

Yes. So now let's pause here. What do you do when your prospect has crappy goals? Is that like a red flag where you're like, peace out. I'm only wanting to work with people who want to grow by a million dollars a year.

You mean like, well, there's different categories. So there's low goals or there's. They haven't thought about their goal. Like, they haven't articulated. They have goals, but they haven't articulated them, or they're just kind of wishy washy.

Well, I guess I'VE got two questions. One is, what do you do with someone who just hasn't thought about it, hasn't articulated it?

Yeah.

And the second is like, what if the prospect is like, well, we'd like to grow by 10% over the next year and that's 300,000 or.

Yeah. So in general, my measure is I'm looking for people that are serious about growth and generally, like, I think Keith Gutierrez has a good measure, like a million dollars. I think that's, there's a lot we can do to help folks grow a million dollars. They could be serious about growth. And if they're looking to grow a half million, if I had it, my server, you know, if I had like starter type things, maybe I'd play with that. And. But at the end of the day, regardless of what their number is, they gotta be for me to want to work with them. They gotta be serious about growth. And that's even if they can't yet articulate that goal. It's one of the reasons I like to ask, like, if they have a business plan. Because if they have a business plan, they put some thought into this, they're serious about it. Right. And even if they're not about to open it up to me completely, they're gonna start like talking to me a little bit about what it is or how many customers they're trying to acquire or how difficult it's gonna be versus last year. If they don't have a business plan, that might be okay. But I got to know what's driving them. Like, have they thought about this? Do they have something in their life that's driving them? Do they have a vision for their, for their business? And if I believe that they're serious, but they just haven't articulated it, then I can work with that. I may want to charge them to help them. I might want to say you need a business plan or you need to come up with some goals. Like if you don't do that, you're throwing money away. And so I can help you do that. And I got to get paid for like, it's going to be valuable for you and this help. You know, we can do it as a small project first, but I would work with them, but I got to believe they're serious. If they're wishy washy about growth, if things are going well, if they're already taking two vacations a year, they're not going to hire more people, they're not going to introduce a product, they're not opening up a new Location. They just always want more leads because it's all. I always want more leads.

Yep.

You know, they got money to spend at a budget. I'll work with them, but otherwise, like, I'm not going to spend a lot of time.

Yeah, gotcha. So now we get back to this point where we realize what the gap is.

Yes. Where do we go next? So they say. So they give us a like look. So back to our story. Right. So, Andrew, so we'll role play. I'll do the one this time. So I've just asked you, what were you hoping to invest?

Well, I was hoping to invest 125,000.

Okay. Okay. All right. So let me just make sure I got this right. So you're looking for a million dollars in growth. Actually looking for a million five next year. But you can cover half of that. You can cover 100, you know, half million yourself. So you need to find a million dollars in new growth. Just make sure I got this right. And you're looking to spend. You said 20. 25,000.

Yeah, 25,000 is what I've got budgeted for marketing.

Okay. To grow a million. Is that right?

Yeah.

Okay. Can you share some ideas? What are you gonna do? I want to know. This sounds interesting. Do you know what you're gonna do with that 25 grand to get a million?

Well, we thought that just putting a new website out there would be the answer. Like, it just needs to be refreshed.

That's what we thought. That's cool. So it doesn't work. So it's fine to get started with something. But you're trying to get a million dollars next year, you're going to put out a new website. What's like writing on this for your business? I mean, can you afford to wait a couple years or three years? Because websites, I mean, 25 grand, I'd call that more of a slow burn.

Yeah, well, this is pretty important for us. Like, if we can hit a million in growth this year, that helps me keep on track to hit my exit plan. So.

Okay.

That I've got 25,000 set aside for the website.

Okay.

But grow, like, growing is important.

Okay. Would you like some advice?

Yeah, go ahead.

So you probably gathered this for my questions, but I just give you some advice, and this is whether or not you work with us or not. But. But generally, we'll see companies who, if they're looking for a certain amount of growth, will generally plan on investing about 10% of that number to help drive that growth. Okay. So for other words, if you're looking to grow a million dollars in business generally, companies in your position, it can vary a little bit by industry and your competitive marketplace and other factors. But where they should start thinking about and calibrate from is about a 10% benchmark. So about $100,000 is what I would recommend that a business like yours starts from in terms of thinking about investment. Does that make sense?

That makes sense. Walk me through. What do we do? $100,000 sounds like a huge number to me.

Yeah.

How do we. What does the path look like? Because you're telling me I need more than just website. I understand that.

Yeah.

But $100,000 is a lot bigger number than what I was thinking.

Yeah.

We've got, you know, it's not like there's not money in the business. We've got money. We've got money in different budget categories. Like break this down for me step by step, because that's a lot more than I was thinking.

Yeah, no, I totally understand. And you know, and again, whether that's all with us, so I'm not saying our price tag is necessarily 100. We might, we might mix up that mix. Some of that might be on media spend, actually, or getting things ramped up or some advertising or things like that. But I'll say part of our job, part of what we do as part of the sales process is try to come up with a plan together so we can use the funds that you have invested in the smartest way possible, given the way things are going in sales and marketing these days, to give you a really good chance of success. But, and I think you're asking the right question. The absolutely the right question is it's figuring out what are likely to be the right resources and then coming up with the plan and what we try to do. So I'm gonna go, I'll go a little bit beyond here in the role play. What we try to do with you, Mr. Prosp, is we want to come up with some scenarios for you. So your marketplace a little different, your competitors. I want to know about this stuff, by the way, who you're competing against and where the low hanging fruit is and what your assets look like, like your existing database, your word of mouth, like all these things. And then what we want to do is come up with a plan for you. And we call it giving you the best chance of success. We don't call it like, you know, this is marketing. This isn't, you know, this isn't crystal ball territory. So we'll generally come up with three ranges of scenarios. We call it like our target scenario with you, that we have a pretty good degree of confidence that we can help you to hit. But we're also going to come up with an ideal or like a home run scenario where if just there's low hanging fruit there and things really catch fire, that's a range of outcomes as well. And then what we want to do too is we want to develop like a lowest case scenario with you. And in some cases we call it like a walk away scenario. Like if we just can set up some measures where we say this is just not working. What we all thought about the market and these tactics, like we're losing money, we're not making money on your services, we want to identify that with you up front as well. So if we ever get into that territory, and that is not our goal, that's not how we build our business, that's not how you build your business. But we consider this business planning. So we like to know that up front so we can have a range of outcomes for you. And then we'll. Then we take the conversation from there.

That's powerful because like you just, you. So I can't just thought like someone comes in, I need a deliverable, I have a budget for that deliverable. But we're elevating the conversation now. Right? And so what I like about what you did is you anchored first, you anchored me at $100,000. Now we'll keep the conversation going, but I don't think you're going to charge $100,000 for the services that are coming out. But you've elevated the conversation and you've also built on the trust that you had developed in the sales process at that point to say like, we've got these different buckets and this is like my heart is in this for you to grow. And so like you're leveraging that connection there too.

That's absolutely right. And I did drop a line in there that I think is really important. And I believe it when I say it. I'm not just saying it. But part of this is whether or not you work with us. This is what I recommend for your business. Right. And again, that's not like a tricky line. I'm not like saying that because I'm trying to like do something psychological with them. It's true. It's like I'm trying to. If we take that helpful mindset, you know, if I were in this guy's shoes and I was looking to grow a million dollars and I Didn't know how I was going to get there and I was only spending 25. Like that doesn't make sense. If this were a friend of mine and they were telling me their business plan, I'd be like the same thing I did to you. Really, like 25 grand to grow a million, you know? Yep.

So because it's relationship, like it's got to be relationship over revenue at that point on the call. Right. Because if I'm the agency owner and I'm trying to sell you the service and I am just gripping to yes with white knuckles because I need to sell something, like you're gonna smell that a mile away. Like I've been, I've been the two handed white knuckled guy on those sales.

We all have been.

Yep. But you can't, like you've gotta be right where you said, like you have to come with a spirit that's like I need, I'm trying to help you out here. Here's my plan. Take it from me or take it from someone else.

It's so important we say sometimes mental mindset matters. Right. So if you go into this call thinking like even subconsciously, like how do I get this business? You've already lost. Right. That's not the goal. The goal is can I help this person and do they need my help? And so if Andrew told me he was looking to grow 250 grand and 25 invested and he already knows how to do it, like he doesn't really need my help. Maybe, I mean, but this guy who worked in this role play, this guy sounds like he needs my help. He has real and serious goals. He doesn't really have a plan to do it. He needs some help on the budget. So that's where I'm honing in is can I help this person?

Yeah. That's awesome. David. We're gonna wrap it up there. I just want to say thank you for coming on, sharing your insight, your expertise here. If folks are listening, they want to learn more about what you're up to. Like where should they go to check things out.

Yeah, great. Thank you. Awesome question. So I mentioned we have these Project lion boot camp. So maybe offering some more. But we have two primary ones today. So the one that I teach is called the sales skills boot camp. And it's all about how you can advance and close deals with more velocity and with the right prospects. So the place you can get more information about that is if you go to Bitly so bit ly SSBinfo. So that's SSB as in sales skills, bootcamp info. And then I'll also put a plugin for my colleague, Dan Tyre. If any of you guys have ever worked with Dan. Dan and I are great because we're like Tweedledum and Tweedledee, man. Like, I'm like, you know, I like, sell with, like, strategy and thoughtfulness. Right. I'm not like, the schmoozer. Dan sells with, like, energy and like, boom is Dan Tire. So. So I also encourage you to consider Dan's boot camp. Just don't take them both at the same time. You can take both of our boot camps, but just. It's too much to do at once. But Dan teaches how to fill your pipeline with opportunities. So if I focus on the discovery process through the close, Dan really focuses on identifying your target list and then connecting and reaching out proactively to talk with prospects. His is called the Pipeline Generation Bootcamp. And you can get more information about his class at Bit Ly. So Bit Ly PGB info. That's PGB as in Pipeline Generation Bootcamp. So check them both out.

Thank you, David. It's awesome. We hope to have you on again, man. This is great.

Absolutely. And by the way, sorry, I should have mentioned those classes are for HubSpot partners. Right, I should mention, sorry, guys, if you're not a HubSpot partner, but we do offer free of charge to HubSpot partners. So think about becoming a HubSpot partner. Or, you know, if not, we'll try to catch you through podcasts and other ways like that because we. We do like to share. So, Andrew, thank you for having me on today.

Yeah, it was awesome. Thanks, David.

Thanks.