Rethinking Lead Scoring Before Sunset

Foreign welcome to the Admin hug everyone. If you are seeing this, it's the first time you're seeing this, so that's great. And we're going to share that link out with you so you have the housekeeping, you can follow along, you can save this, you can click on it later in the day when you're looking for the resources that you're looking for. But you now have a wonderful new link to share all of the wonderful resources that are available to you. So you're very familiar. Admin Hug Event Landing Page we are going to be rethinking lead scoring today. Next week we're going to be talking about custom events and the following week when I am on a cruise, we're going to be talking about these customer agent HubSpot credit. So if I'm not here, there'll be a whole team talking about credits even when I'm not. The week after that we'll be talking about messaging tools and you can go and get all of the events all the way through the end of October onto your calendar as you see fit. If you miss an event, don't worry, that's okay. We've got the HubSpot Admin Hub YouTube channel. All of the events are recorded and they are there. As soon as I get them up and running, you you can go check those out. We also have the HubSpot Admin Hug LinkedIn group. Please go in there, connect with your fellow admin, make sure you're getting all of the resources that are available to you and making sure you're connecting with your fellow admin. We also have a space on the HubSpot admins community. Make sure you're going in there. The posts will be going up with all of the recordings on there as well. When you are thinking about all of the amazing things that you're doing as an admin, I want to hear about them. We want to know like what are are the great things that you are sharing. That's why Casey's here. She shared some amazing ideas of what she wanted to do with lead scoring and she submitted this form for us and now here she is. So we're going to be talking about that today. The Super Admin Bootcamp is not open yet. The Fall Cohort will be open on August 15, so if you are interested in that, it's a great course. Make sure you go get on as soon as it opens because those do fill up really quickly. We all know Bevy is our friend, but sometimes she's got some issues. Turn it off, turn it back on again, check all those little things and you can get it back started. If you've got any ideas for a hug, these happen every single week, rain or shine, boat or not. Make sure you're submitting your ideas for those hugs so that we make sure we're getting the content and topics that you want. Otherwise you get the resources that I want to share with you. You can also connect with myself or Kyle. He's enjoying his time off with his new little one, but make sure you're sharing and connecting with us on LinkedIn and then the upcoming events are always going to be here as well, so you'll be able to have those. And I will go ahead and stop sharing my screen and let Casey take it away. Casey awesome.

Thank you so much. Deanna hello everyone. I am so excited to be here. You are anyone in the circle of my life, you've probably heard me not stop talking about this for the last week. So thank you all for attending. A little bit of background hello, I'm Casey Hawkins. I do freelance HubSpot consulting, specializing in marketing. And if you're not following me on LinkedIn already, I have been basically obsessed with lead scoring for the last few months and that is what we're going to talk about today. So lead scoring has gotten a bad rep and honestly, in most cases it's pretty well deserved. But today isn't just about pointing out what's broken, it's about showing you a way to actually fix it. If you walk away from the session with nothing else, I hope you leave with a clear framework to rethink scoring, one that's grounded in buying behavior, not just an internal checklist. We've only got a short time together today, so my goal is to make this session valuable on its own, whether or not you follow me later on LinkedIn or are interacting with any of my resources after the fact. But if you want more support as you build, or just want to follow along with the conversation and resources I'm sharing between now and August 31st, you can check those out at ValueFirst site, score, course, hug, or connect with me on LinkedIn. So let's talk about the perfect storm that's bringing us here today. As most of you probably know, because it is a little bar inside of HubSpot, the legacy scoring properties are going to be sunset on August 31, but as Deanna's email so perfectly put it today, sunsets can be beautiful. And I there is an opportunity for this one to be beautiful and that is because the current scoring that I see many organizations use are based around old broken scoring models. And this new tool brings a great opportunity. So quick pulse check in the chat has. Have you started already migrating your scores to the new tools or are you still figuring it out, waiting till the last minute? All right, great to hear. A lot of people are already moving. My greatest fear in life right now is on August 29, August 30, I get a bunch of LinkedIn messages from people begging to that have questions. So great to hear a lot of things. So here's the thing. Although this feels like a tech change, there's actually a strategy moment here. I think too many teams are just going to recreate their old broken scoring model into the new interface. And that can be a real trap. Because if lead scoring wasn't driving alignment, prioritization and revenue before, rebuilding the exact same logic won't suddenly fix that. And that's where this opportunity comes in. You have a clean slate and a moment to pause and ask yourself, what should scoring actually do for us and how can we rebuild it to reflect the way buyers behave today? Check. Let me zoom out here. All right, so let's talk about why this matters. Most of us have lived this exact cycle at least once, right? Have you ever had a hot lead get sent to sales and totally flops? I have this happen all the time to me. I have clients that are like, we want CEOs, we get CEOs, LinkedIn downloads, I got them coming in hot, go to sales, nothing, silence. Sales is complaining, we don't have any good leads. Marketing is saying, look at this list of CEOs that we sent to you just last month. But still there's just misalignment happening. If this sounds familiar, you're not alone. It's probably one of the most common stories in B2B marketing. But here's the deeper issue. That lead scoring model was rewarding the wrong things. It wasn't measuring intent, it was measuring activity. Or worse, it maybe wasn't even measuring activity that correlated with buying behavior. So how many people have seen that story before where someone downloads a LinkedIn checklist? That action's a trigger in a score bump. Marketing celebrates qualified, let's send that thing to sales. And then sales gets it, looks at the form and is like, what am I supposed to do with this download of a resource? Maybe they don't even know what resource it's even downloaded. And then the deal doesn't go anywhere. No follow up, no conversations. And that's the blame game. Marketing thinks sales dropped the ball. Sales things. Marketing is sending junk. And then we're just in this flywheel, which is a bad flywheel. We have good and bad flywheels in our world. This one's not so great. How confident are people's. How confident are you in your score's ability to reflect real buying intent right now, not just looking at what the behavior is? All right, we've seen the broken scoring cycle. We've all seen it. We've also talked about how this moment is an opportunity. But what does a better approach actually look like? I call this the value first scoring approach. It's all about shifting arbitrary activity to scoring based on real value signals value to your buyers and your business. So let's walk through it first. What do we need to stop doing? We need to stop scoring just to hit MQL targets. A white paper download doesn't mean someone's ready to buy. We can't just say, oh, we need. We're 50mql short of our goal for the month. Let's just lower the scoring threshold for MQLs for the month. We also need to stop using one single mysterious lead score that tries to do everything. That's not giving our marketing teams. It's not giving sales teams. It's not giving anyone enough context to know what to do. If all we know is here's a CEO with a score of 100, go after it. And we especially need to stop scoring things like email opens, which, let's be honest, are barely trackable anymore anyway, and start measuring things that are real value and showing real buying intent. Now what do we start doing? We start scoring actual buyers signals, behaviors that reflect interest, intent, and fitness. We build separate scores for different types of intent because engagement is not the same as fit. And we focus on data. We trust things that are consistently captured and actually mean something. So all of those industry fields that you imported From Zoom info 10 years ago, are those the best things for us to be scoring on? My guess is probably no. So here's the big question for you to start thinking about. What would scoring look like at your organization if you focused less on MQL math and hitting that MQL goal and more on buyer readiness?

All right.

So here's. Here's where we start shifting from what's broken to what we should be building instead. And the key shift is instead of one messy lead score, we're breaking it into three modular, actionable sources. First, is the contact ICP fit. Is this person even relevant to sales? Are they decision maker? Or are they a student, intern, a partner of yours, a vendor, anything like that, then company ICP fit. This is probably only relevant if you're in B2B. If you're doing B2C, you might be able to get away with just the two. But for my, for my fellow B2B people here, is the company a target in the target market? Do they fit your firmographic sweet spots? And then finally and this is the new piece and this is why I'm really excited about the new tool, the Engagement Score. Is this person showing meaningful recent buying behavior? These aren't just helpful conceptually, they're way easier to build out and maintain in the new scoring app. So I'll pop over to HubSpot real quick and show you how I'd set up something like this. So for those of you who have not played in the new scoring tool yet, I'm talking about the lead scoring tool. Right now there's a health scoring tool for Service Hub peeps, but the lead scoring tool is going to be available to anyone with a Marketing Hub professional or enterprise subscription. And now Sales Professional or enterprise, which is a new update. So if you didn't have it before, check it out. This is going to be under your marketing tab right now and Lead scoring. But I always recommend searching for things in HubSpot just in case the navigation changes again. So once I'm in here, I'm going to go ahead and create a score. If you haven't been in this tool, you'll have the option to create a combined score, an engagement score, or a fit score. A contact fit score is going to be based on properties inside of HubSpot. This is the old scoring tool. In most instances. The old scoring tool was just scoring based on properties on the HubSpot records. So it's a good place to start for me. I'm going to build this first Contact ICP fit using the Contact Fit score. There may be a case where you want to build this as a combined score, but in most cases it'll be a Contact Fit score. Just name it real quick. And now I can start adding my property groups. So now I'm going to start thinking about what a contact ICP looks like at my organization. How do I know if this person is relevant? Is a relevant sales target? Is it their job title? Their experience? Do I have information about their buying authority? So I'm going to start with the job titles because that tends to be the baseline. Melissa ICT is ideal customer profile. Thank you. It's hard up Here Balancing chat. So let's do job title here. My big, big caveat, especially when we're talking about these contact Fit and company Fit scores is, is where is the data coming from? As I mentioned before, if this is from Zoom Info, if this is from Zoom Info five years ago, scoring them based on this is not, is probably not helpful. So make sure you are incorporating that as you build out your scoring model. Not just what are the points that we're scoring, but where's the data coming from? How complete is the data? And by that I mean if you don't have job title data for 90% of your HubSpot database, scoring based on job title is not going to get you that much. So we need to look in that case at ways to enrich that data reliably. Sometimes that's going to be adding that to form fields. I know the marketers in the room are going to, myself included, are going to tell you that every additional, every additional field you add to a form reduces your conversion rate. However, we can only work with the data we have. So at some point there's a balance there on what data we need to figure out who our targets are and what data we want to and what data and how easy we want the form to be to fill out. And sometimes I think it's okay for forms to be harder to fill out, especially if it's a high value resource. Especially in the case of a pricing page, a demo form, if you need that data to route them correctly, that might be worth making it a little harder to work out. The same logic here comes into why I don't think we should be just lowering the score. Lead score. If we need more MQLs to send to sales, we shouldn't just be making a form shorter because we want more conversions. If they're less qualified, then is it really worth it? A tale for another day Another caveat with all of these fit score pieces is what does the data actually look like? So today I'm going to say job title contains CEO, cfo, cio, but big. But here this doesn't include if someone says chief Executive officer, do I need to add that? Do I need to clean my data up? There's some larger pieces around what data you're using and what that actually looks like in your system. And sure, it's easy enough in this instance to say chief executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer. What about people who just write chief exec or I'm a bad speller, which is why I'm not typing it out right now what if somebody else spells it wrong as well? That can all change how your scoring is happening. There's lots of tools in OpsHub to clean your data and of course there's a ton of enrichment tools. But just be careful with which ones you're using and how reliable they are. But for here, let's say for this example, I want my contact to be a CEO and maybe what do I have in here? Employment seniority. Is any of the Director, partner, senior. We can start there for now. You're definitely going to want to talk to your sales team about this as you build it out. I think one of the traps people get into way too often is how the marketing ends up creating these scores based on what they think, not what sales is looking for. I find one of the easiest things to do is to start asking sales, hey, send me some examples of some good leads. But also check on which contacts are associated with deals if you're able to. In your HubSpot account, I had a client who we built a lead score all around C suite executives at hospitals. We were only sending that, we were targeting that in our ABM campaigns all about C suite executives. Then we started to notice they were having trouble getting in touch with C suite executives at hospitals because those people are busy and don't want to talk to salespeople. Where we were seeing most of our deals come in were lower level managers. And so we do some small deals with a lower level manager and then that manager would get promoted and we'd do a little bit of a bigger deal and then they'd get promoted again and we do a little bit of a bigger deal. So it actually was a very interesting eye opening experience looking at who the contacts were with their deals because often they were managers at the beginning. All right, so let's say I built this all the way out. You can of course use. There's a lot of new features in the tool that I love. The score limits is one of them. So if you wanted to, you could give a limit of five. When I'm looking at like job titles, seniorities, things like that. And maybe I want to give a different score based on trying to find role champion. Another instance might be if I have a different scoring group for in that example, maybe I have a different scoring group for managers than I do for executives. So there's just some ways to kind of balance your score in here and take a look at who's your actual target market. Another thing I love about the new scoring tool is this ability to exclude or, or score specific contacts. So I do, I help a lot of teams with ABM campaigns, account based marketing campaigns. I have a client right now that we're just doing some scoring on contacts who are at those target accounts, which makes it a little easier for us to see who's relevant save. Now we have a contact fit ICP score. In theory, we'd also have a company ICP score that's going to look at things like are they in the right industry size, revenue, location. But again, clean data and reliable data is really important here. But the third piece is that engagement score. And this is what's different about the new scoring tool that makes it possible to score based on, based on buying behavior in a way that we were not able to before. And if you haven't played with this, and maybe you haven't because you just went to rebuild your old score using the new app, I definitely encourage you to check this out. It's different and change is scary, but there's some really powerful things in here. So here's where we can start adding behaviors. And again, when I say behaviors, I mean meaningful buying behavior, not just a LinkedIn download. Not to say that a LinkedIn download can't give you some points, but in this case, let's do web events. So now I can say page visited URL contains pricing.

All right.

And we can add a time frame so I can look at people who have visited pricing in the last seven days. And maybe I want to score that a little differently than how I might score someone who's seven points. That's weird. Maybe I'd score that a little differently than someone who has visited pricing in the last 30 days. And this is one of the huge workaround, huge improvements is I can score every time because I do want to know if someone's visited pricing once or if they visited it five times. And in the old scoring tool there were some workarounds to kind of get you there and maybe some lists could have gotten you close, but you're not going to get all the way here in the old scoring tool the way that you can here to say, give people a point every time that they visit pricing. And I can limit that to a score of 50 and so on. While we are looking at this though, it's really important to look at the activities. So I just said, I was talking to Sarah Lane Hahn yesterday and I was saying I think I get in this trap when I talk to people about scoring and what points should be because you start talking about things like how Many resource downloads equal one demo request. And the truth of the matter, the limit does not exist. You cannot download enough resources for that to equal a demo request. So we can break, so we can limit the thing, limit things based on that. So if I add another event group here, let's say lower area form, submission, submission main. This is a demo account, so I don't know if I'm going to have a good name. Podcast guest form. Let's say that's a lower engagement. I might want to limit this score to 20, whereas my score for my high engagement might be 50. And then I can start to see the weight of the weight of activity. Not just did they download so many resources that they finally got to, they finally are valuable enough for a demo because even if you did download 10 resources, if the sales team calls you and says, hi, I saw that you were ready for a demo, you're probably not. The key takeaway here is that when you break scores into these modular pieces like this, you not only get clarity, you get some control. If something's not working, you know which piece to update and it's way easier to optimize and test and that enables this next piece. With these different scores, I can start breaking into buckets. So with a separate contact ICP score, company ICP and engagement score, now I can see, okay, these people meet our contact and company requirements, but we don't have, we have little to no recent engagement with them. Those are the people we should be nurturing with marketing campaigns. And then maybe there are hand raisers. So those are our demo requests and that they are a contact ICP and company icp. Call them immediately. Don't let a moment slip away. Those are the people we want to reach out to. Maybe there's some middle ground. Maybe there's people who are demo requested, but we don't have that full ICP data. Or they might not be our full ICP fit, those we still want to pass to sales. But maybe they're not as hot of a priority. But they could still be influencers. Or maybe their data is just incomplete and we need to work on enriching that to get more information on them. This framework will help you align with your sales and marketing around how to handle leads based on those score combinations. So with these in place, publish this one. Turn on now. I can create a list of contacts and obviously, or maybe not so obviously this can be applied to your workflow, enrollment criteria, your reports and so on. So however you end up doing this, but you can say things from Here is my ICP contact fit greater than or equal to 10.

Or.

And score. What did I name that one Scoring Recent engagement. There we go. Is greater than or equal to 50. So they were one of those like hot lead. They did one of those hot lead activities. Now I can use this either in a workflow. Maybe I am passing these two sales through a list, but I can see who my hot leads are and then I can layer other things on. If I'm in B2B, I can layer that ICP company fit as well here. Or maybe I say for between 1 and 9 or maybe even 5 and 9. So they meet some of our contact ICP criteria. But they also took a really good activity. Those are people we also want to send to sales, but maybe we need some more. We need some more data on who they are as a person. The goal here isn't to make sure your sales team this. The goal of this is to make sure your sales team isn't just getting a score. They're getting clarity. Who's hot, who's not, what kind of follow up is needed. And even if you're not ready to build the full tiering model right now, just starting with contact or company fit scores can already make a huge difference in showing your sales team the differences between contacts. And the reason I don't build all of this as a combined score is because I can't say things like are they a contact fit and a company fit and have they had recent engagement? If it's a combined score, it's all just in one place and I can't really divide things up. I also can. When it's divided, I can see how people are scoring and whether or not I need to make adjustments to one or more areas at one time. All right, let's land the plane. We've talked about what's broken in scoring, what needs to change, and how to rebuild a system that's actually useful, not just a checkbox. So now's the real question. Who here is ready to turn HubSpot migration from a problem into an opportunity? August 31st isn't just a deadline. It's your excuse to finally fix something that's probably been bothering your team for a while. Here's how I recommend you start. Whether you're solo in apps, working across a team or figuring it out on the fly. First, an audit. Ask yourself, what about your current scoring feels off if you're working within a team. Ask the marketing team. Ask the sales team. What do reps ignore? What doesn't reflect Reality. That's that example where my team was aiming to get CEOs but was only landing deals with managers. So there's a disconnect there. Clean. Look at your data. What data are you scoring on? Is it complete? Is it accurate? Do you trust it? Should you trust it? If not, what can you do to fix or enrich that? Then comes the build drafting those three scoring those that three score framework or two if you're B2C, fit at the contact level, fit at the company level, and then real recent engagement. I'm not talking about if they filled out a demo request a year ago. I'm talking about have they visited the pricing page today? What's that buying behavior look like at your organization? Then test, don't launch to everyone necessarily all at once. Start with a pilot group. Maybe you have even a baby ABM program at your organization or you have a few target accounts. Start to get feedback and iterate. I always say lead scoring is not a set and forget system. If you haven't looked at your lead scoring in a year, now is the time to do that. Rather than just rebuilding what you have, take a look at what's actually in there. And then finally the most important thing. Align. Bring sales into the process. Talk with marketing about how they're generating leads. Get agreement on what each lead tier means and how to handle it. The most successful scoring systems I've seen are the ones that become a shared language between marketing and sales, not just a black box that no one understands. And now pause for Q and A and dog hacks. This is Frank. He's laying behind me under a blanket. And then this is Bosun. He is my happy little boy. He's just happy to be here all the time. But also what's resonating, what's still unclear. What feels exciting to all of you as you think about your own scoring setup? Big question, small. All fair. I love that.

Thank you. Casey. There are a ton of questions in the Q and A and I. I'm very happy you've left a good amount of time to talk through them because there are some that I think you'll have some insight on that you can bring light to everyone. Let me give everybody a minute Ish to go over there. Add your questions. Upvote the ones that you're really interested in hearing. If you said one thing that you wanted everyone to leave with right this second, before we go into Q and A and start diving into all of the nitty gritty details, what, what's the one thing you Want someone to take away with right now.

I want people to walk away with thinking about lead scoring as not a metric for for teams to hit, but an enablement tool to get the right people placed in the right buckets. Is that too. No, that's great. I love that.

I mean, if you have to get the right message to the right person at the right time and you don't know that unless you stick them in a bucket.

You stick them in a bucket. Yeah.

Awesome. Okay, so tons, tons of questions over here. Let's start at the top. Curious to know how others decide on MQL threshold? So this is a question for the audience. I love those. Go ahead and add that to the chat. Like how are you guys deciding on your MQL thresholds with your team? What are those metrics look like? How are you getting to those ideas? And if you want to come off and chat with us, we'll bring you on at the end of Q and A. Let's see. Thoughts on using the Framework versus Decay for page visits or webinar event attendance?

Can you say that again? Sorry.

So what are your thoughts on using time frame versus Decay for page visits or webinar event attendance?

I see. I personally like there are two options now in a way. When it first launched, I don't think we had both of those options. I'm personally a fan of the time frame. I think it's a personal choice at the end of the day. I like time frame because it's a little more precise and customizable. I can say in the last seven days versus if I do decay, which I don't think I can do. Yeah, I can't do that. Then my options are much more limited. I can reduce by 100% every month and so on. I know when it first came out I was using Decay. I have changed my mind on this and mostly I have gotten a little more strict internally on internally as in like my brain on what recent means. For a while my original thought was like, okay, I'll decay based on how likely they are to remember that that thing happened. I am more likely to remember that I filled out a form three months after filling it out than I might be that I visited a page or even clicked an ad. However, I think that when we look at time frame, we're really looking at the last month or less in almost all cases. It's. It can be really important and to look at what they've done recently and this is going to change based on your organization. There's longer sales cycles, there's shorter sales cycles. But I think when you look at what that buying cycle looks like, that's the time frame you should be looking at and you should be scoring behavior with this that are happening within that time frame. And the time frame gives you more options. But a personal choice.

That's a great point. Looking at the what your buying cycle look like and matching that. Let's see, Joshua says what are some ways to use AI for qualitative scoring Like a context says in a call or transcript or email that isn't that it is an urgent need.

I think that with the new Ask Breeze actions that's a great opportunity to turn some of those qualitative insights into actual properties that you can score based off of. So you can within Ask Breeze put some of the some of that qualitative feedback and have Asprey's categorize it into things. In that example, maybe you would ask what's their time frame and have that drop into a property and then you could score obviously based on that. And you should. You can and should and should.

Let's see. What is the best way to combine the lead score tool with the Buyer Intent and target market tools in HubSpot to create a really robust system for our marketing sales funnel or would the lead scoring tool be sufficient for a very strong funnel on a dem.

I am currently building a lead score using Buyer Intent and Target the target account list. I mentioned at some point in all of my ramblings today that you have the ability to score based on lists. You can either exclude people or only score specific people. I have some teams that have ABM specific scores in which case we're scoring specific contacts which would be like any contact who is associated with a company that's a target account. Those are your filters. I also have kind of added points to if I I have some clients that don't like to do that because what if there's a target company that they don't even know is a target company. So sometimes in that case I might just add it to my company fit score and give extra points if they're on the company fit score but not necessarily like only score people. That way I and someone may know better than I I have not immediately seen a way as I started to build that out to incorporate Buyer Intent into the lead scoring app. Like that isn't an option. I don't want to do all this but what I did do in that instance and I don't have a demo account for the buyer intent. You are Able to add people from the buyer intent list to a static list. My workaround that I was doing was I was scoring based on contacts on that static list. It is a bit of a hassle because you have to update that static list on some sort of cadence. But I will certainly keep an eye out if that gets added. And if you follow me on LinkedIn, you can. You'll be the first to know.

But let's see. How are the group score limits helpful?

The group score limits I find to be helpful. I don't use them in all instances, but I find them to be helpful. If you want to score gore like in this example with high engagement and lower engagement, I never want my lower engagement activities to outweigh my pricing download, my pricing visits, my demo request downloads. So I would use a group limit to keep my lower engagement only to a maximum of 20 so that then I can score. If they have an engagement score of 20 or under, then I know that they're a lower engagement. They're having lower engagement, lower engagement. They're having like email nurture, maybe engagement type things happening to them versus if their score is over 50, then they have much higher engagement. And I would want to send that to sales. Got it.

Let's see. One thing that I see that doesn't exist in the new tool is the conditional and logic. What if I want to score a combination of properties? Is there something I can do?

Yes. Love this question. It is my number one complaint. My only workaround right now is to create a list and use that list as the and criteria. So you would create a list with all of the and criteria and then add that to the score. I believe list criteria is only available if you're using just double check the fit. Yeah, it's only available if you're using a fit score. So if I want and criteria and if I want and criteria and I'm using an engagement score, blah blah blah, then I would build that engagement score as a combined score and put all of my list and criteria in the, in the fit group and then all of the like recent engagement in the other engagement group. Okay.

Sometimes we got to work around things.

That's what this group, that's what this group does best.

I'm.

I'm guessing this is gonna, I have a lot of faith in that changing, but maybe too much faith. Just.

No. I always share, I always share the things with the teams that ask for them. So if HubSpot's teams are asking for the chats and The Q&As from this they get it and your voice is heard either in the chat or the Q and A or saying come on and share your workaround. So don't be afraid to share your opinions. We do a lot of offline events and use custom object to manage them. To transition the scoring we need to do, we will need to move events to marketing events to count them as behavior. Marketing events are limited for offline events though.

Any suggestion limited to offline events meaning. So your events aren't. You're not able to get your webinar events here in marketing events probably like.

Trade shows and stuff I would imagine.

Trade shows and stuff like that.

Likely.

Yeah.

Julia, if you have specific information you can go ahead and add that in the chat. Yeah.

I have. I've just started using marketing events. It's obviously gotten better. Another workaround I have used are lists in those cases similar to my and criteria. But yeah you can import lists into marketing events and add them as either registered or attended. So you could if it's a trade show list I would just add them as registered and use that personally. Another thing I've done too because I you know every client's a little different. I do things a lot of different ways is sometimes I have like properties that I'll use. So I'll say like have they attended a event and what type of event they attended. Some workarounds there.

We've also got custom events happening next week here at the Hug. So you know, maybe there's an option for what you're looking for there Julia as well. So see you back next week. Let's see. Rally says what subscription tiers are required for the new lead scoring. It seems parts of it are in some pro hubs and parts of it are in enterprise.

So it is now available Marketing Pro and enterprise previous you it's just the number of scores that you have available depends on your subscription enterprise. You can create up to 50 with pro. I think it's 5 but still that's enough in most instances I've been working in prior to like last week, two weeks ago or so and that's marketing or sales hub as of a week or two ago. Also prior to that you could if pro hubs couldn't use combined scores. But that has been unlocked as well. Up to 10 for pro. Great. Even better. Even better.

Let's see. Stevie says we have campaigns clearly labeled top of funnel etc. Is there a good way to score a context based on their engagement with the campaign as a whole rather than Pro per asset.

There is actually and this is a fairly new update I think is it with campaigns? So I guess it's with emails. Email email clicked. I would. Now I'm going to go on my email rant. I would really not suggest you score on anything in email other than clicks and even that. I prefer to use web visits to clicks. But for the point of the example, marketing email campaign at time of send is what you're going to want to use and you can use contains any of and put in your phrasing or anything like starts with any of things like that email name at send time. Also you can use contains any of. The weird nuance here is at Sentime, which is HubSpot. Just trying to be very clear that like if you. You can change the name of an email after it's sent but it's not going to be captured here, it has to be what was sent at the time.

Interesting nuance to point out there too.

Yeah.

Let's see. Is it possible to create different lead scores for each business unit?

I don't know. I think they're all in one but I could be wrong. I don't work in a lot of business unit accounts.

Yeah. If anyone in the chat has, you know, examples or if they're aware, then absolutely. Please definitely share your expertise there. Let's see, we've got time for a couple more. I'm going to get resort because I saw some more votes come in. How do you deal with negative scoring if you can't have a score below zero in the new lead scoring setup, would it be best to create a negative score score and then create a calculated property to subtract this from fit engagement scores? Or is it better to build the elements you negatively score into an exclusion list so they don't flow into scoring at all?

I've done it both ways. I prefer the exclusion list myself. I think that's a clean. I think that's a cleaner setup. However, you could create a negative fit. That's this. I built this to show this off. At some point I built a negative criteria and then I used a calculated field. That is a good point though. While we're on that, I mentioned building these as three distinct scores just to close the loop there as well is I use a calculated field to add all those scores together into a total score and then to your point contact fit plus recent engagement. If you wanted to have a negative score, you could do your negative as a. You could do your negative as a negative there. Just like that. Love it.

All right, let's see I have built 95%. However I'm stuck with trying to add LinkedIn forms not showing in ad interactions. How do I add scoring to this.

LinkedIn form should be under your forms not your ads actually. So it's a little bit of a gotcha there. So you would do add form. I think it's form name. It might be form additional though. This account doesn't have LinkedIn it's just a demo portal but it should be here. You do form name is any of and then your LinkedIn form should be in here. I think they come up as like LinkedIn lead gen form colon and then.

The name Love that Sharon go ahead and try that and let us know.

How that works out and DM me on LinkedIn if it doesn't work I'm happy to find some time to look at it together with you.

Casey Keely says when we were using the legacy scoring we really only used engagement activities, web visits, form fills, etc. Moving into the new system, is it recommended we start at engagement score? Is it appropriate to create a scoring model for all three options or or keep to one. Where do you see full reporting on the lead funnel performance?

So for from a reporting perspective I would do a calculated field to show my total scoring amount and then I could, I could score. I could do a chart there. I know there's not out of the box, a ton of out of the box reporting for scoring at this time. I do like that they have this scoring distribution but that's only available with you your engagement scores obviously. So then I would probably build a custom report and show some of those buckets. I do have a client that we kind of. It's a little janky but we ended up building kind of a report like this. We had a workflow that says like when lead score changes and then we have buckets on whether they're a hot medium or low and then we have a distribution just like this basically based on which bucket they're into.

Taylor has a follow up question that kind of goes to that is are you using funnel reports as well to do some reporting on the engagements or you can.

I am probably a bad person to ask because I don't like the funnel reports.

Candid information only here guys. Let's see. Spot says how do you decide what exact number is the right number to score people that visited pricing page like why is 10 better than 15?

It's not. There is no right answer. It's. I mean that's why this like planning that's why this, like, building your framework makes sense. I like to build it outside of HubSpot first. It's just cleaner. But it's really, you know, you put everything you want to score out there on a list and then you start figuring out like, okay, what is the right. How much more important is a demo request than a resource download? That's where you start to get in that trap of how many resource downloads. But that's where the limits, I think how many resource downloads equal a demo request? But that's where those limits come into play. That's a great point. We're gonna.

We've got maybe one, two more questions, Max. Jeanette says, when do you recommend companies use lead scores in really small orgs whose sales teams don't get that many leads? Is it worth.

Might not be. I actually did a video a couple weeks ago on this. It might not be. And I worked with organizations where we don't build a lead score because of just that. All we do is say, here are the leads that have come in, however, still really, really, really important for that context piece. If you are giving everyone your. If you're giving everyone every lead, they still need to be treating the leads differently if they requested a demo or if they downloaded a resource. So that's. That's the piece that you just still want to keep into play. But sometimes a list can tell you that.

Let's squeeze one more in if we can. Any pro tips on how to weight scores? Do you look at contact an account ICP Behavior plus Behavior in a weighted model, kind of leading into your value for scoring deck here. I'm going to actually share your link because I grabbed.

Yeah. So that again, is going to depend on the organization I do like, and that's going to depend on what your scale is. I mean, you could have many of the organizations I work in work off of a score of 100, and we kind of start backpedaling from there. And also, like, what's your threshold? So if your threshold's 100, okay. If they request a demo, that's 100, great. If they visit the pricing page 10 times, maybe that's 100 and so on. But it. Some of it does depend on your organization and how important each element is. And that's where. If you map it out outside of HubSpot, it can be a little easier to figure out, like, is this a mandatory or an optional? And start to figure out what those scores are from there. So I would write every criteria that you want first. Then you might want to start figuring out how reliable that data is and then you can start saying okay, this is all mandatory and high criteria versus lower.

I love that. As Casey told me when I asked her to come to the hug, I could talk about this for hours. Unfortunately, we don't have that. But I do appreciate Casey coming and joining and sharing all of your amazing insight and knowledge about lead scoring with us. I will catch you all next week. We'll be talking about those custom events and have a wonderful day everybody. Welcome to the end hook no flashes.

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