SEO and Growth Strategies For Agencies w/Jeremiah Smith

Hello, this is Gray MacKenzie, and before we get started with today's interview, I want to quickly thank our sponsor for this episode, textexpander. You know I'm all about standardizing processes and working efficiently. Well, TextExpander helps agency teams do both from an efficiency perspective. TextExpander saves me personally a couple of hours worth of typing each month. And when you magnify that across our growing team, the time saving adds up. And this is a cool part that I didn't anticipate when I first started using Text expansion tools seven or eight years ago. TextExpander keeps our messaging consistently on point with the right spelling, language and formatting. So we've been able to eliminate a ton of simple mistakes and copy paste mix ups by rolling out textexpander across the team. I've actually got a video that'll be up on our YouTube shortly with a bunch of my favorite use cases. But for now, I want you to head to textexpander.com podcast and you get to lock in a 20% year one discount for all Agency Journey listeners. Again, thanks to Texas Banner, both for their sponsorship and the impact they've had on our team. Now let's get to today's interview. All right, welcome back to Agency Journey. My name is Gray Mackenzie. I'll be your host today and I've got the privilege of bringing on an old friend, Jeremiah Smith from Simple Tiger. Jeremiah, welcome to the podcast, man.

Thanks, Gray. Thanks for having me, man. It's good to see you again.

I am, I'm pumped to dig into the story. We do this thing where we batch record all our podcasts. So we'll do like one recording day for a quarter or two recording days typically. And I've had days where it's been like, okay, by the end of the day, I'm starting to get. Starting to get pretty tired. Today we're. This is interview number four for the day. And what's made today awesome, what makes most of these days awesome is when you're actually pumped to talk to every single guest who comes on. And so this is one of the highlights of today is getting to catch up and dig into the. Into your story and what you've been through as a starting point here by way of helping people get to know Simple Tiger. Can you give us the overview of the agency? And you guys have. You're very niche down in terms of what you're doing, but just walk us through what Simple Tiger looks like.

Sure. Yeah. So, yeah, first of all, thanks again for having me Excited to be here, man. Love, love talking about this stuff with you. So, yeah, we've been doing this for about 15 years now, so I would consider myself a veteran in the SEO world because 15 years is just a long time. But let's see. Yeah, so way back when we started this as a marketing agency and didn't know really what I wanted to do with it at the time, we were kind of doing a bunch of stuff. Web design, logos, business cards, whatever anyone would pay me for. Right. And then I kind of stumbled across SEO on accident. When one of my clients needed help with SEO, I built them a website and they were like, that's great, let's get it in Google now. And I was like, huh? How do you get a site in Google? There's probably a form I have to submit or something. You know, I had no idea. And so I dug into it and I found this whole like, oh my God, it's like walking into a cave and there's a secret alien civilization underground. I was like, oh my gosh, there's like this whole underworld of people doing SEO and getting all these sites to show up in Google and oh my gosh, I can't trust Google. Everything's manipulated. It was like, you know, went through that whole crisis moment. But at the same time I started thinking, that's very valuable. That's an extremely valuable thing because when I search something, I'm, I'm very targeted and I understood the meaning of, of good quality marketing and targeting. And so that's what kind of pulled me into SEO. I nerded out on that and taught myself and, and did it for a client's website for a little while until they just blew up with it. And so then after realizing the power of that, I decided, you know what, I'm going to try to cut everything else out and focus on this because I really like it. And all that happened in the span of like 6 months of creating this agency. So from from the very beginning to I'm doing just SEO, it's like six months. So I got really lucky that I picked that specialty early on. But then I continued doing SEO for a bunch of different types of businesses for a long time. And it took me a while to kind of figure out that I have an audience that I should actually go after. And after bringing my brother on, which we can talk about a little bit, he and I kind of started looking at things. After working with several clients and we started noticing patterns. We liked working with these clients. We didn't like working with all those clients. These clients made good money. Those clients were annoying. So we kind of figured out that SaaS businesses were the clients that we enjoyed working with. We spoke the same language. They understood it well enough to where we're not trying to teach them elementary SEO. Like, they understood it. They get it really quickly. They're connected. They're looking at metrics. All the stuff that we needed and we resonated with. It just resonated with the realizing, you know what? I'm kind of. I've invested in this marketing world. I've invested in this operations world, and then I'm just like, sloppy linchpin that doesn't know what he's doing in the middle, and everything has to flow through me. And so when I stepped out of that role and I hired my first salesperson, that really, I gave them a good system to work with and to run with. That's when things really started to change. Now, prior to that, I had hired a salesperson before, but I didn't set her up with, like, really good systems and processes. I didn't give her the proper training. I didn't know what I was doing. And so I didn't set that role up for success. So I still kind of regret having not done that because that may have wasted somebody's time. And, like, anyway, so I carry that with me a little bit. But figuring out that sales role and the sales process and then getting it out of my hands and into somebody else's hands helped a lot. Because one thing a lot of founders and owners of agencies are going to do is they're going to customize the heck out of everything to make their client happy. They want everyone to like them. And if they pay their company, that means they like them. And if. If I could customize this. Oh, of course I can customize the CEO. I can make anything happen for you. So what was happening is we were having, you know, 20 client roster. Every single one, we had 20 distinct projects. And so it was like we had no efficiency because of that. And that's where actually you guys came in and helped us a lot straighten that up. But after I hired the sales rep, I was able to say, here's how we do what we do. That's it. He has no control over modifying projects or contracts or things like that. And so he goes out and he pushes really hard and he pushes back on clients, like, well, we're not able to do that. I can talk to our CEO, but I can tell you right now we probably can't do that, that kind of thing. So what started happening is we started closing deals consistently that all looked the same and operationally things really improved. Everyone came in with proper expectations, profitability started improving, things like that. And I'm not involved in it. And so what I was able to do is actually take a big step back and go back and look at our marketing now and say, okay, how can I feed him more leads now that we have this? Marketing breaks sales, sales breaks operations, but sales isn't getting enough leads to break operations. How can I break sales so that it breaks operations? You know, so that's where I'm at now, is just focusing on doing our marketing and staying out of the sales process as much as I can jump in when I need to, to just kind of help modify things and keep things on track. But I would recomm that everyone focused probably first and foremost on trying to develop a sales process, get somebody to handle sales, and as a founder owner of the company, step away from that so that you can focus on and invest in marketing.

Yeah, that's awesome. I think it's so true. Like we've all made that mistake of hey, hired someone, tried to put them in sales, figured I'd build the system once I was forced to build the system and like, it's just a, it's a challenge. I don't know, Jeremiah, when the last time I was on your site was before as I was kind of preparing for this conversation. You've always had a good looking site.

Thank you.

But I noticed you've got some really long form, like some pillar content with the SaaS SEO guide and stuff like that. Is that newer or have you put together some of that stuff more recently? Or is that, have I just been missing that?

Yeah, no, that's, that's past year or two to me. Maybe two and a half years, something like that. So we really, we were investing in our blog, just like we were helping our clients for a long time. Started noticing that it was a lot of just kind of fluff content. It wasn't, it wasn't carrying the weight that I think content needs to carry. And I started thinking about like what Brian Dean does for example at Backlinko and how he's like, when that guy creates a piece of content content, you want to read it. If you're in the SEO world, you need to read it. It's good. You will definitely learn several things. You might be overwhelmed actually. And every single piece of content he creates ranks very well for his target keywords. So I kind of Took that lesson. I started thinking, I don't want to generate 3, 4 blog articles a month, and I'm not even the one writing them. We're paying our writers to write them, and they're doing a great job, but they're, you know, it's, it's not as heavy thought leadership stuff as it needs to be. And I could sit here with you for, like, if we did a class on a, on like a weekly basis or a daily basis, I could sit here with you for days, talking hours on end about SEO and getting into the nitty gritty and getting into strategies and stuff like that, and it's all up here, but that's not getting me anywhere. And so I started realizing I need to write something, I need to build something. So I started practicing what we preach. And I built ourselves a piece of pillar content, which is the SaaS SEO guide. And we keep that thing updated. We're constantly optimizing it, tweaking it, but making that investment. I wanted to build something that was so large, so comprehensive, so competitive that anyone else would have a difficult time competing with it in terms of size and value and impact and stuff like that, so that when we put it out there, we would just dominate. And that's exactly what happened. Like, after publishing that thing, building a few links to it, it jumped up to number one for almost all of our target keywords. And we just started getting lead flow like you wouldn't believe. After doing that, I was like, okay, we're no longer just blogging for the sake of blogging. If we have a good point and a quick little news bit that we want to throw out in 800 to 10001200 words, we'll do that. And we do still blog, but it's like, maybe this month, maybe next month, I don't know. But we instead last month rolled out a massive SEO ROI calculation guide and how to estimate your ROI from SEO. Sean put that one together. And then Caitlin on our team, she's our head of content, and she's been handling content strategy for us for a while. She wanted to put together something about content strategy for SaaS companies. I'm like, let's do it. So these are the kinds of content that we're producing now. Large long form guides and pillar pieces of content. And those are bringing in a large majority of our leads and our, our good clients. And the cool thing is the people who have read them are now very well versed in how we do what we do. And so when we're talking to Them, they're just nodding their head yes all the way through the process. They've heard it all before. They're ready to pay. Let's do it. You know, Right. Quality leads coming in that way.

That's really cool. I think going super, super deep on that stuff. It just has really outsized returns we've got. We get. The biggest piece that drives traffic for us right now is our ClickUp for Agencies definitive guide. It's not even a lot of traffic because it's a pretty niche thing, right? It's like 1000 or 1200 visits a month to the guide.

But the intent is really good there, though.

Intent is perfect. Why would you read that if you're not an agency and if you're not trying to stream on your ops and you think ClickUp's the way that you need to get there and then have those conversations after that, you know, it's like, okay, like, you guys have already demonstrated just tremendous expertise. A lot of people, you know, it's so funny to see how many calls our sales team gets on. Someone pulls up their screen to say, hey, let's just take a look at your ClickUp real quickly. Pull it up, See, oh, growth, delivery. Operate like you see half of our stuff that they've. That they've built out. And so you're exactly right. Like that. That's a great takeaway from your own experience. Is that pillar content. It's going to have outsized returns from an SEO perspective for sure. But also from an authority perspective. It's not the. I was just talking this morning to Leila Pomper, who runs a company called ProcessDriven. I was asking her about her inspiration. She does some really nice content as well, and I love her brand. And I was just asking about her inspiration, and she said Gusto is a company that she's looked up to for a long time. And even when she's typing in to Google, show Google, like, how to hire an employee in Missouri, Gusto as the search query, because they've built a reputation like, this is going to be incredible content. We may not produce a ton of stuff, but when you produce it, you can trust it. It's going to be rock solid.

That's all part of this whole movement called product LED SEO, which I think it was. Eli Schwartz wrote the book Product LED SEO, and I didn't realize that that's what we were doing for a long time, but we've done it for, like, a company. I can now talk about trade. Gecko was a client of ours Who? We did a large product led SEO effort for them. It took like a year and a half for us to get it built with like no results on the pathway to get there. It was very grueling, very painful, and we're constantly answering to them, but they believed in us and so we were so lucky we got to do it. But if you go Google, like inventory management, you'll find that they dominate. Well, shortly after we got them to dominate for that keyword, they went silent on us. And we didn't know why. It was because they were getting acquired by Intuit to be a part of QuickBooks platform for inventory management. And we had gotten them there. We had developed the IP that made them dominate that whole space to where QuickBooks said, yeah, we'll buy that. And so they purchased Trade Gecko. So anyway, we lost the client because they had to in order to go through the M and A process and everything. But that was like a major feather in our hat. And I couldn't talk about it for a while due to NDA, but I got released from that from their head of marketing, so I'm able to talk about it now. That's an example though of product led SEO where we focused all of our effort on providing a lot of value in the content to the point where people may just consume the content for years without ever interacting with your brand. Otherwise, let them do that and then eventually you will establish such a presence that people just start flooding in and that's exactly what happened for them. So that's really cool. I love that whole process.

That is awesome. You mentioned Trade Gecko. I couldn't resist checking my email here. September of 2014 is when we were quoting way back at Guava Box, putting together proposals to do their website way back in the day.

Right on, man. That's cool.

That's funny. You mentioned Sean once or twice. So you work directly with your brother in the business and the rest of the team, how was that experience? So bringing them, bringing them in and then splitting up. Okay, hey, who's, who's doing what internally? How's that experience been working with your brother?

Yeah, so there, you know, people ask about like the sibling rivalry thing and stuff like that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say we've ever really had the sibling rivalry thing. I would just say that we've always like where we've clashed has been on our perspectives. And I attack things coming from the west, he attacks things coming from the east. And so we just think that we're both right. But we end up both being right, just both needing to listen to each other and learn a bit. And it helps a lot, actually having two separate perspectives. Because quite frankly, I'm the anxious, dreaming visionary who's constantly coming up with new ideas and ways to change everything that we're doing all the time, which, if that just runs amok, it will destroy a company. And he tends to be a lot more practical and slow moving and steady and consistent and thorough, which means that he shoots down a lot of my great ideas. And I say great, but they're just great. To me, they're not great out in the world. Because if you look at all my ideas, you know, out of the thousands that I've had, the hundreds that I've implemented, two or three really, really worked. You know what I mean? So it's a numbers game for me with ideas. Well, he helps shoot down the ones that are very serious. Yeah. Filter those out and get us down to the ones that are likely to work. So I don't end up expending all this energy and effort working on stuff that ends up being a failure. And so we work really well together. It does have its tension moments, and I think being brothers create some of that tension too, because we're just close. We love each other. We're like best friends. And so one thing about your best friend is you don't mind holding punches. You just tell them exactly what the hell you think. So we do that with each other. We have to be careful not to do that in front of our team or clients because we don't want to create that toxic environment. But if he and I are on a call together, man, there's like no holds barred. But anyway, it's fantastic though. He's very, very strong at what he does. He is a little younger than me, but I've never, like. I haven't felt that way since we were like 18 or 12 or something like that. Like now he's just. He's my equal. I mean, so I love working with him. Though there is a certain element of maybe some sibling telekinesis that we've got or Espa or whatever where we can kind of. He and I could each get on separate calls and then come back together and we're like, yeah, we were saying the same things, kind of. Kind of stuff, different people. So there is that benefit too.

That's. That's really cool. You guys are. You have a lot of differences too. Like, there are some siblings, we don't run into it very frequently, but some folks who we've worked with, they were like, you guys are probably too similar. I'm not sure you should be in business together. I think what you guys have is actually really healthy that to have that distinction and difference.

It really is, honestly. I mean like I, I remember the business when it was just me running it and I was kind of all over the place. It was like a rudderless ship, you know. And then he kind of really wants to hold a track and stay in that line for a while and you've got to give him real good reasons to get off of that line and he's reasonable. So I mean like if you give him real solid reasons and he's like, yeah, okay, so that's good. But he kind of keeps me on track when and then I can kind of focus my energy in that direction and we're able to work together really well with that.

Yeah. On your pricing page right now. So this kind of has. We talked a little bit about sales. You guys have done a really nice job of packaging up and just put a ton of work into your operations too and streamlining how you deliver for clients. But I was noticing on the pricing page you kind of pitch a little bit of that. I'm curious about how much you actually will use that as a value prop in the sales process. It may not be, I don't know what the situation is, but you talk about that you'll have access in our project management tool that we'll use for collaboration and you'll have direct channel access to us in Slack and you know, weekly check ins, that kind of stuff. Does that come up very much in the sales process or is that just there as like a reassurance of, you know, you're always going to have a touch point with us, we're going to treat you like the premium client that you are.

I think that that's more of me assuming that they want to know that we don't hear much about that. People don't really ask like what tool do you guys use, what interaction method? Like and especially in the SAS world, like Slack, everybody uses Slack. And so that that's normal. Everybody's in Slack project management tool. They don't really care. They would rather not have another tool they have to deal with. But at the end of the day, client doesn't seem to mind so long as it's clean and straightforward for them. So I think more so though saying things like weekly updates, weekly touch points, weekly calls, that kind of stuff that really gets them, pardon me, it gets them interested it also makes them curious, too, because they're like, so I'm going to have to be available every week. Like, you know, we have to have that whole discussion, too. It's like, how much the client's going to be putting in. So that's what actually comes up in discussion.

Yeah, that makes sense. That's healthy to get on the table. I do. You know, it's funny, in any of these conversations, there's an element where people are arguing or looking for both sides. You got one client who wants to know, hey, how many hours do I get to talk to you? And then the other client's like, how many hours do I have to talk to you? Like, I really. Hands off.

Yeah. And I think that comes down to the vertical you're into. In the SaaS world, we do a lot asynchronously, so we do a lot without calls. We do a lot of slack and loom videos and stuff like that. And so that is very, very helpful for our SaaS world because a lot of them are remote. Some of them are overseas or spread out throughout the world or traveling or whatever. And so time zones are like, just shoot me a video 10 minutes and explain the thing and I'll shoot you back my video questions or whatever. So that's worked out really well for us. I love asynchronous communication when I can get it.

That's awesome. What's next for Simple Tiger? Like, as you guys are looking forward here, we're talking a little bit before hitting record about some stuff that you're working on from kind of a sales and delivery perspective. But what are the big goals for you guys?

Yeah, big goals. I mean, we've got our delivery process down to a science to where it's so like, it's the kick that Bruce Lee talks about. We've practiced that a thousand times. We could do it in our sleep now. So really for us, it just comes down to sales and marketing in terms of our growth. And then I personally, as like, the visionary. I'm kind of thinking about how much more I can do for the SaaS industry. So we've got a captive audience of clients who really trust us, who really love us, and we're excellent at the SEO thing that we do. But we've seen the value from our own efforts of taking the content that we've created in SEO, for example, and it ranks organically and starting to promote it with paid channels and just driving some traffic to those through ads and seeing what that does. And it's actually started Feeding us really well, too. So it's made us start thinking, like, should we look into some other channels and should we become like a SaaS marketing agency or should we just stay a SaaS SEO agency? I'm kind of a fan of the idea of just broadening it into just a SaaS search agency for a little while and just doing like some Google Ads as a service, because that complements what we're doing really well. We're already doing a lot of things that would feed that and it would add some stickiness. So that's kind of what I'm digging into. We offer paid search right now. We're just not pushing it really hard. It's not the kick that we've practiced a thousand times, although we are pretty good at it. Yeah, I think that's the area that I'm curious about expanding in.

Yeah, I think it makes a ton of sense. We talk about the concept of earn the right. We're going to earn the right to move on to the next thing. Yeah, you guys are one of the few examples. Most people are anxious and antsy and they want to move into the next service and the next vertical before they've earned the right to do that. Like, from an outside perspective. Not that this has to mean anything to you, but you guys would fit in my profile. Like, now, here's an agency who's earned the right to go broaden that and say, okay, now, like, now, let's take the next channel, then let's go.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Yeah, dominate that too.

Yeah, we'll see what happens. That's one of those things I want to be real careful with, because if we burn a client with paid search, we'll lose their SEO. We'll lose everything. Reputation's everything at the end of the day. And so I really want to get solid with our paid search. And we're doing it for ourselves and it's working great. But we're different than a SaaS business. And so our cost per clicks, I don't mind them being crazy high, but for some SaaS businesses, that won't work, maybe, you know, so.

Right.

Gotta figure that kind of stuff out. But we'll see.

You just hit that. You just hit the nail on the head with one thing that people don't think about with niching down in this. I think when I say it, most people think of it as a big risk. But like the marketing, we're serving agencies exclusively and that ecosystem is so tight. Like, if you mess up for somebody that's everywhere if you do great work like that'll. That'll make its way around. So that does. You're exactly right. That has the potential. You guys are in the SaaS space. All these people are going to conferences together. That works in your favor, but also if you mess it up, that works against you too. So I think people just need to realize that'll work both ways as you make that decision. The whole point of doing it is it makes everything. It makes it easier to go acquire clients. It makes it easier to service them better and to do it to be the kick that you've practiced a thousand times. You guys have done SEO for SaaS so many different times, but you actually have to deliver on that promise or else that's also going to get around in that ecosystem.

Yeah. I mean, our mission statement, our core values drive so much of what we do that we repeat it whenever we are in the sales process. We repeat our mission statement, our core values. So everybody knows. And then we do that when we're hiring anybody on our team. And then when we have, like, our monthly calls or our quarterly calls as a team, we repeat them real quick just so that everyone remembers. And I find that that gives us a little transcendental to aim at that kind of pulls us out of the rigmarole of just doing a job every day and reminds us, hey, there's more to this that we're trying to deliver on that we really want the client to connect with. And if we can stay focused on that, it makes us, instead of just a commoditized SEO provider, it turns us into, you know, a partner that people enjoy working with and feel integrated into their team. And so that's part of what we aim at. And that has really given us the best referrals over time. So. And we can see when we're not doing well with that, things get quiet. We're doing really well with that. Everybody comes in through the site. Hey, so and so mentioned you at so and so conference. And I'm like, right, okay. We're kicking butt for them, you know.

So that's awesome to get to see that play out over time. Are you guys running on EOs? You've mentioned visionary. You mentioned kind of the core Valley space.

Okay, yeah. You picked up on that? Yeah, we're doing. We're doing Eos. We did that at the beginning of last year. We switched to it, and from nothing to that, and it was fantastic. Highly recommend. Every agency, heck, every small business ought to be using eos, my friend. A series of dental practices throughout the state of Georgia. And I told him, I'm like, dude, you need to do eos. That'll get your whole ship in order is fantastic. And everybody enjoys it too. Like, our team actually loves doing it now. They were unsure about it when I first pitched it because I pitch all this crap. And they're like, another thing that he wants us to do. But I let them kind of take it and run with it, see what they thought. And they love the weekly touch point. And then we started putting out fires and then after a while, fires stopped happening as much. And then we started predicting potential fires and putting those out far before it ever happened. And now we've gone like pretty much six months with nothing but rave reviews from clients. Just totally happy. Everything's good, no fires. I'm like, that's amazing for an agency. I can't tell you a six month period of time we haven't had a fire. So this is good, right?

That's awesome to hear. We've self implemented since 20. Do you guys work with an implementer or do you do it internally?

We did self implementation. Yeah. And we're all remote. We relied real heavily on our software to do the implementation. So we use 90. Yeah. And I like it a lot. It's great. I'm looking at EOS1. I think it is just because I like a clean, clean, beautiful ui, but I have no reason to change other than that. So I'm not going to do that to 90 yet. But I am a big fanboy of good UIs, so we'll see.

Yeah, that's awesome. I think we first self implemented in 2016, but just this past year I've started working with a professional implementer and that's also been how I think both were really impactful, but kind of helpful to have. I would imagine you guys probably have a somewhat of a similar dynamic. Andrew and I have been best friends for 15 years or whatever now there's no holds barred in conversations. It is helpful to have a third kind of voice and person there. But that's a great. That's really cool to hear the impact that it's had on you guys. Just having one kind of objective, okay, here's the operating system. We all got to play by the rules. We didn't make them up. It's not Jeremiah's idea or Sean's idea or anyone specific idea. Just here's what we're doing.

Yeah, I mean, every single year. So for that third point of view, every single year, Sean and I analyze kind of like our. Our number one weakness or area that's really holding us back. And then we hire a consultant or a coach in that area to fix that or help us fix that, and we run that until that's no longer the issue for us. And then whatever the next big issue is, we move on to that. And that's been really helpful for us. I mean, you guys came in at just the right time for us. That really helped us along a lot, got us to the next point where we went on with Joey and then from there on the Marcel and so on and so forth. And so it's really cool to see how that works. And that's. I think everyone should always be hiring some sort of a coach, some sort of a consultant to improve their most underperforming part of their. Their business or their life. So that's been good for us.

That's. It's surprisingly, surprisingly rare. But I think that's a big part of your story in success. The people who are wired that way to say what you just said are also the people who are going to, like, those are probably the people who would succeed anyways. Because, like, no, it's not. Just, I don't have to solve this all by myself. Like, I'll go pay for access to get. I'll understand the who, not the how, and I'll go get that help from the outside. So. Yeah, and you even mentioned, like, there's swings and misses in that. It's not 100% hit rate.

Totally. I would say that we, like about 60% of what our consultants tell us is what we end up doing, which is not me saying we know better. It's that the other 40%, for some reason, we could not make that work or didn't want to make that work, maybe subconsciously or even consciously or something. But that 60% that we made work was super worth it. To the point where it was like, hey, look. No, this was a win. Like, so I imagine anyone who could make 80, 90% of what they're doing work is fantastic, but for us, just a little bit goes a long way because we really want it. Now, a lot of that comes from the fact that for like five, six years, Sean and I kind of sat in our own little bubble, our little silo, and thought it was just us against the world and we weren't trusting of anyone to kind of help us grow this thing. And then we really struggled with enough issues, and I started reaching out and started kind of getting a little help here, a little help there, and we Were apprehensive. But then a few things worked that we got, and we're like, okay, you know, this actually felt pretty good. And now, now it's like, all right, who are we going to hire next, you know, to help us with the next big issues? We enjoy it now. So Marcel's lucky because he, you know, we went through all our bad baggage and we got all that. Got rid of all that. Now we love working with consultants, so.

Yeah, that's awesome. Good for you guys. Well, I already kept you on longer than. Than I meant to here, Jeremiah, but I appreciate it. We could talk all day. I appreciate you being willing to come on. I gave a shout out to the site earlier, simpletiger.com. where else would you point people to follow along on your journey?

Yeah. For following us along, really, our website's probably the best place to do it. I don't post much on Twitter. I don't get involved too much in the social sphere. I probably should or need to at some point. But I just got to warn you, if you go to our site, you're going to get followed around everywhere by our ads. And so that's something we're testing. We're playing around with it. So you may not be in our target market, but you may still see our ads, because we haven't figured that part out yet. Yeah, I would say watch for our pillar content, and then if there's something that, you know, you do really well as an agency, put that into a large piece of pillar content, and you'll be surprised how it can sprout legs and walk around the web and not just show up in search, but you can aim ads at it. You can sit here on a podcast and talk about it, drive people to go look at it, stuff like that. And it just creates so many opportunities for your agency. So. But yeah, thanks for having me on, man. I really enjoyed it.

That's awesome. I appreciate you coming on, being generous. Sharon, though, here's what's worked, here's what didn't work. I've always appreciated that about you. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing today, Jeremiah. Thank you.

You got it. Great. Thank you.