The Agency for Agencies: Katie Street from Street Agency

For it to be done. So off I went and got myself a decent client and launched my own agency. And really what we, what I want, wanted to do is to, to provide something different to the market. So not your kind of normal cold calling lead gen approach that, that often solves a problem but is, you know, is a short term fix and you're just quickly, you know, trying to build engagement and taking a sales approach. And I'm not saying we don't advocate doing some of that, but what we aim to do is to help solve the new business problem permanently and make it easier both now and into the future. So we help agencies build really engaged audiences by pushing out marketing tactics and we do that predominantly using email marketing automation tools. And it works really, really well. So much so that my agency grew 300% last year. We practice what we preach, we put helpful content out into the market, insightful content. We produce webinars, we do events. I have my own podcast over in the UK which you can listen to anywhere in the world. So I don't really know why I said over in the uk. So we practice what we preach and we really help and actually what we do, you know, it's, it, it works, you know, our clients stay with us. We don't have the short retention that a lot of other kind of new biz agencies have. We do, we do focus more on a marketing approach which enables us to get better, more consistent results and it solves things forever, not just a quick fix. So that's, that's straight. And then because I'm insane and already have a very fast growing agency thought oh, I know what I'll do, I'll launch another business. But saw a real gap in the market and predominantly this is UK focused as we launch but because I think there are similar ish things over in the States. But we are launching a membership business called the Agency New Business Academy or as we call it Tamba. And that aims to basically give all the knowledge, insights. There's training course courses on there, there's templates and things that you can work through. We've got a hookup with ALF and winmo to give kind of live feed of leads and opportunities. So it's an awesome platform that empowers anyone and everyone to improve their chances of attracting and winning the right kind of clients for their agency business.

Right, I'm gonna come back to Tamba, but going to the street agency, a couple specific questions that I think might help folks understand more about what you do. On the email said are you a HubSpot partner or are you?

Yeah, good guess. But we are agnostic as well. So I say we're agnostic. We're kind of. We have two preferred partners. We've investigated quite a few platforms over the years. And that's not to say that we won't add others in the future, but we are a HubSpot certified partner and we are also partnered with a similar platform called Kulia K U L E A and they do everything that we need them to do. Between the two of them, they work slightly differently, but they give you the same end result.

Right. So on the email side, if you can help, help us help me understand what does a normal engagement look like. Like I, I'm bringing you in right now, our email marketing needs a ton of work. We're using ConvertKit right now. We can go back to HubSpot. We've been in the ecosystem since 2012, but announced through ConvertKit and I would imagine, I mean this is the power of serving a niche that you've got pre built template. We already know the flows, we know the timeline that generally works for agencies and the type of content that needs to go out there. Obviously the actual content needs to be personalized to the services that you have and audience that you're talking to. But what are those first couple months is that getting month one is kind of strategy and tech setup, Month two is building out those campaigns. What do those engagements usually look like?

You know, how it's done. Right, so yeah, exactly that. So initially we start with all our clients. I guess you're obviously onboarding and we kind of refer to it as an immersion phase, but really understanding the agency and starting to look at the market and the opportunity to make sure that we are targeting the right audience at the right time with the right subjects in the right place. And I say we do email marketing. We do also use social channels. LinkedIn plays a big part in what we do often as well. So the initial engagement is really us, you know, looking at the market. We often speak to our, the agency's clients to understand what it is they truly value about them. We do some peer and competitor research to understand what their peers and competitors are talking about. Are there, you know, social posts, getting engagement, what kind of content are they putting out, what kind of events, webinars, podcasts, etc. Subjects are they talking about? Because hopefully there's been a little bit of a strategy and science behind that. So initially, and then, you know, once we've done that, where we're really trying to define what is your unique value or your value. And sometimes it isn't always totally unique, but what is your value proposition? What's your niche? Your niching is really important. Lots of agencies think they want to, don't want to cut off their nose despite their face by, you know, by niching in and just go wide to everyone. But actually that's terrible. You need to niche is my experience in having done this for the last God. I mean, I've worked in sales and marketing for my entire career, like 20 years. But definitely, you know, from an agency marketing point of view, you need to understand who your audience, who the likely audience that need you are, what their problems are. So the initial thing we do is that then we once we've defined a kind of key proposition that really helps tell, you know, and when I say value proposition, we're talking to the needs of your audience. What is, what are their problems and how can you help solve them. We then dive a lot more deeply into that and look at some of the key trends and problems that we maybe saw amongst all of our research. And we develop a content strategy and plan. And when I say content, strategy and plan, that's the kind of subjects, the tactics that we use will often vary. So we will think about where the audience live, what specific services that agency may have and or sectors that they serve that can be very, very different. And then we'll produce content in different ways to engage the audience in different ways. So sometimes we're putting on webinars for our clients sometimes. And we're helping you with speaker outreach and book interviews. Sometimes we're doing video interviews, sometimes we're helping them put podcasts together, sometimes we're writing insights for them. So we basically develop a strategy, go ahead and actually create all of the content and the things or put together the ideas and make them happen. And then in the background, we'll have been getting all the tech set up happen. We will pull a data set that matches the audience that we've researched that we know need them. We'll use the content and the tactics that we've defined in the plan to push that out. So it's very much insights driven and the content is talking about to the problem that we know those people have. You know, hopefully they're sat there going, oh, I was worrying about that last night. Now you're talking to me about it and you're answering the problem that I have. We want to understand the problems of the audience and we want to create content that helps them answer those Problems, hopefully in a unique and different way. I think agencies often think they need to have case studies. You do not need to have case studies. You just need to have an opinion based on what you do and you know something that's different and it's going to help them answer things that keep them up at night, basically.

So when we're talking about email, one of the first things that goes to my mind is the automation side. But it sounds like there's a good amount of campaign building as well. So. And you mentioned kind of strong retention with agencies. Are you starting with the automation, kind of setting up the workflows and here's what we want to have when people go through and I guess this is a two part question. I assume you start there and then maybe move into more campaign driven, the webinar stuff. Or maybe that's, maybe you're flipping that and you go the other way and do some campaigns to give you the content to do your automation. I know I should never ask a two part question, but this is what I do. Do you have a philosophy around for agencies specifically? Do you like to start with bottom of the funnel content and kind of build that content set out first, which would be, and then work your way up the funnel or go the opposite way and do kind of eye level awareness program right back down towards the bottom.

We do a mixture, but I must say so to answer the first part of the question, we start, we don't start with a kind of sales journey. We always start with insight pieces. So we always start with those helpful pieces of content. And we, we, and we usually want to go with impact. So we tend to start with the bigger, you know, most interesting and the most relevant insightful pieces because they're going to get us the best engagement. And it's more than anything, it's you, you need to, we need to be sure that, and certain that the content that we are pushing out is helpful. But you know, more than anything, I would say the most important type of content that you need to have is something that is answering a problem. So it's insights driven. So whether that is an article or like I say a podcast or something else, it's, it's talking to your audience about the things that are keeping them up at night. So we always start with that. And then there are lots of things that are important. Obviously we then go on obviously to set up automated journeys. We tend to be sending out emails on a weekly basis. Sometimes, you know, one a week, sometimes two weeks, sometimes three a week. Depends what you know, that the ambitions of the client are and what we're able to, you know, what we're able to manage with for them through the marketing automation platform and also what they're able to deal with internally in terms of the amount of leads and conversations that we generate for them. So we're always starting with, with that insightful piece. But I always talk about, so I'm kind of, I keep moving away from talking about automation and talking more about the content, but I think it's important because the content that you use and how we set up the automation is very much based on this. So we will start with an insightful piece of content. And that's the, the attract piece. That's the bit that is answering the problems that we have. We then have. So there's the attract piece, which is your insights. You've then got the second piece, which is prove it. So that's telling them how you've done that. You know how that might be in a form of a case study. It might not, it might be in a different way, but it's the, it's the prove it pieces. But you know that insightful thing that I told you about and I gave you some ideas and things to ways to deal with that problem. Oh, here's us actually solving that problem for someone else. So prove it is really important. And then the third piece of content, content that we push out is making sure that you've got something that's really easy to buy so often packaged up. So it could be, you know, buy this workshop or, you know, we can help you do this by giving you this. So three really important pieces of content that you need to have in your content strategy. And that is the kind of order that they go in and the way that we will automate the journeys and it'll be if they do X, Y and Z, they hit a certain score that, you know, they. Anyone who doesn't know about marketing automation, basically what it enables us to do is to not just see what they're doing and react in real time by setting up journeys based on their activity, but also as they engage more and more with certain content, content types or they attend a webinar or they do, you know, they'll get certain points and when they get, you know, say they get one point each for doing each thing, or some things might get two points, some things might get three points. When they reach 30 points, we go, right, they're really hot. They're hugely engaged with us and the content that we're pushing out we're going to send them this thing or you know, an invite to join something. Or sometimes it can be manual as well. So sometimes the alert will go to the campaign success manager who's running those campaigns and they'll go actually I'm going to look a bit more deeply into this because they're super engaged and I can see a bit of a trend. They're looking at this type of content. I'm going to actually send something that I'm going to write myself rather than it being an automated thing. So it gives us a really good deep dive. But it has to start with good content or good tactics in the first place.

That's a helpful framework in three core pieces is three core themes is a helpful framework too. What I was excited about this conversation for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons was you. You're selling two agencies, so I get to grill you on some questions around what is the value prop to agencies? And for folks listening, we get to listen to this from a customer perspective and I think that that can cause some introspection and some reflection around, hey, this is stuff that we're saying, like if this isn't making sense or how does this make you feel on your side of things? Like what are the answers that you're hoping that you hear from Katie, kind of a reflection back into how should you be selling your audience? You haven't gotten to sit on the other side of that seat before. So in that vein, I have a couple more tactical questions. One would be from a goals perspective, when agencies are hiring, what are you? I'm assuming it's retainer based. I'm assuming it's not paper performance because you don't control all the variables in the sales process. But what's the main value prop? Or I guess another way to answer this would be what do you highlight most in your monthly reporting back to these agencies? Are you primarily focused on number of deals or opportunities generated for their sales team, which might qualify as here's how many SQLs we're providing for you or here's how many deals actually got booked, however you break that down, or most agencies, what are the things that you focus on and is that aligned with what agencies are looking for? I'm sure obviously there's alignment that you get through there, but I think it can be easy for agencies to focus on top line traffic and here's how many leads generated and from a business owner perspective, on the flip side, they can care less for the most part about what the top Line traffic is how many conversations are we actually having?

Yes, exactly that. So actually we do, I've set quite a, I would hope an inspiring vision for my team. But at the end of the day we are judged most of our clients only care if they win work. So actually we do kind of, I guess, KPI ourselves to a certain extent to help them convert clients. So that has meant that my business has evolved slightly because as well as doing the attraction piece to actually attract qualified leads and opportunities and the right kind of prospects, which makes the conversion better because the people that are engaging are, are the right kind of clients because we've done the marketing right. We've also introduced this kind of win process that, where we actually deliver. We do go a bit more deep and we deliver sales coaching because most clients will come to us and go, we just need more leads. We're really good at converting them. And then we start working with them and we go converting the leads that we're giving you. There's something that's not quite right here. So we've actually introduced a kind of stuff, sales coaching elements which is, so we now have this kind of attract, which is what the business has been built on, which is all around the stuff that we've just been talking about and marketing and getting engaged prospects and then the second piece is the win piece. So we are actually a lot more consultative and proactive in that kind of sales coaching to make sure the agencies that we work with are set up well to convert the leads because there's no point in us feeding a leaky bucket. So that does mean that my team are, we have a quite a unique model and I don't know how it is over in the States, probably slightly different again, but we are on a retainer. But we also get rewarded on commission. So we get, usually it's 5% of the first year's revenue for any clients that we introduce to the agencies that we work with. So, so the team that and my team are then, although they have some KPIs around the amount of meetings that they book and of course There are some KPIs around the engagement and the other levels underneath that, actually their focus is to make sure that their clients are converting and winning those opportunities. So we report on everything, you know, everything. We go quite deep. We, you know, we make sure that they can see the brands and the companies that are engaging with the content that we're pushing out for them. But in terms of how I set the vision for my team is they're responsible to help feed that funnel, but also to be working with their clients to go, okay, what can we do to convert some of these? You have you thought about doing this? What did you speak to them about? So they're prepping for the meetings in a really constructive way.

Right. So makes sense. I'd assume for a number of agencies, maybe correct me if this is wrong, but I'd assume for a lot of folks, most agencies out there grow through referrals or like a badge of honor, that this is the only way that we would be open. It's not. That's great that you have referrals, but if you're trying to grow significantly, that can't be the only source of leads. And working your referral, even though there's a lot of similarities between working a referred lead and an inbound lead and that they both come to you, there's already a little bit of the expertise positioning. There's still a distinction in terms of level of education and knowledge and trust baked into that. So that makes sense that you got both sides of that piece from an internal team structure. You're, what, around 13 folks right now? And does it look like kind of a typical agency? Here's your account manager. And then we've got specialists supporting the strategist. Or what does that look like?

Yeah, kind of. Yes. I think we are going to lose track now. I think, including me, we are 14, but probably scarily be nearer 20 by the end of this year, which is exciting but also scary sometimes. I'm sure you can stand with me on that one. So, yeah, in terms of how we work, I guess to a certain extent we are, yes. So we have. We don't call them account managers, but campaign success managers. They're responsible for the success of the campaigns, so that's why we call them that. And they are leading. They're at the front line, leading the campaigns out, managing the client, but predominantly responsible for the campaign success and getting engagement and booking meetings for the agencies that we're working with and getting them leads and opportunities. So campaign success managers are the central point for everything. And then because we do a lot of the doing as well, we have quite a wide team and our team, we've done things like when we help agencies redefine their value proposition, we've even helped them redesign. We've got people that can do brand work and designers, so we've rebranded agencies, we've got a development company that we work with. We don't actually do this bit in house, but we've actually Even designed and built websites for some of our clients and microsites. We've done two or three of those just recently, actually. So our team of. We then have a kind of strategy and content team who are responsible with coming up with campaign ideas, developing content, designing assets to power the campaigns that we have. And that can be anything from motion graphics and editing videos through to designing social posts and writing written content and reaching out to speakers and helping manage events. So exactly that we have a team of campaign success managers and then team of people that help create and develop and come up with the ideas for those content and tactic pieces, tactical pieces that we need to take to market and. And then of course, the other thing that I don't talk about enough and is super important and has been, I think, the reason that we have been, we grew 300% last year amidst the pandemic. Lots of agencies crashed and burned. So I'm really proud of everything that we've achieved and the reason that we've done that is because we have dedicated resource for marketing. Now, we haven't had dedicated resource for sales apart from me, but I am seasoned new biz person, so I do know the importance of sales. So I, you know, I focus a lot of my time on that. But we are actually bringing someone in at the moment to work with me on the sales and new business side of things. But we have a dedicated marketing team. So for quite a small agency where you met two of them, I think in preparation for this and hopefully you're going to be coming on our podcast, Greg. So we, you know, we have actually in our marketing team now three people. One of those people actually going on with mtv. So it's usually two people. But that's been really important for me from, from day one because if we don't do that, they will, you know, if you try to double down or use someone else within your agency to do it, you know what it's all like. You've all been there, you, you. It just doesn't happen. You get busy on client work. It's the first thing to get pushed. So having a team, even as a small agency, you know, and we had, you know, our head of marketing was here, you know, right at the beginning when there were only sort of four people, 25% of the agency has often been, you know, not something that we build to clients, but it has meant that we do. We practice what we preach and we push out really good, helpful content. We've got a hugely engaged audience. Like to my webinar, that I host on the first Tuesday of every month. We talk about various different, you know, sales, new biz and marketing tactics for agencies. But 1200 people signed up. I mean I'm super proud of that. So that's because we dedicate time and resource to it in exactly the same way that we do and that's really what we then do for our clients because lots of people don't have the time to do it. So we make it happen.

Right. That has been a common thread for agencies who are growing at significant rates is investing in their own growth and treating it like going way back to the beginning of this podcast here I were talking about HubSpot ecosystem impact, formerly impact branding design but impact in HubSpot ecosystem. We're one of the first folks in that ecosystem who put John Benini, who now runs marketing at Databox and has done the podcast before he let up more marketing. They grew way faster than else from the audience perspective. They've built an entire business around doing that and we've seen that consistently in a number of stores, Remington Dag, at Impulse Creative, just the initiative and investment they've made in terms of marketing. So I love having you on being able to that share kind of about the opportunity that you can hire folks internally and I think a lot of the tactical stuff that you shared with us, there's an opportunity to go implement that internally, sign somebody or to work with someone like Street Agency and hey here's another way to go make that investment and scale from there. Let's talk as we wrap up here a little bit about I'm pulling up the TANBA site right now. What was the I could see a world before we had this conversation because I wasn't educated yet where a lot of your stuff looked project based. In our world we do a lot of heavy lifting projects. We're in there for two to three months, four months and we are basically we take over your ops department for a little while and then we hand it back to you when it's cleaned up and ready to go again. And so I certainly see a membership being a piece to help stabilize revenue there. That's been something that we've built out over the course of this year. We're a little bit different where it's only in the back end but you're actually you already have a retention based business. It's service based so it looks a little bit different. But this seems like then this wasn't driven from hey, I need to get more recurring revenue perspective. What's kind of story and help us understand what if I joined Tanva what that looks like from an agency and get involved what does that look like in the day to day.

So I guess we're expensive to a certain street agency, not Tambour. And not every agency can afford to pay someone thousands of pounds every month or thousands of dollars to, to do this and can't maybe afford to, you know, an expensive new business director or salesperson or marketing person. So really Tamber was born out of the idea that all agencies deserve to get noticed and deserve to know how to better attract and win more new clients. There are some amazing agencies out there that are maybe too small or too busy or whatever it is that they can't, you know, they can't you. They can't recruit an expensive newbiz person or they can't use an agency like Street. So the idea was, came really out of that, that, you know, this is something that anyone and everyone can have access to. The costing is, you know, 75 pounds a month. I don't know what that works out in dollars, but probably not much starting point in terms of pricing and you get access to not just us and my vision for how to run new business, but the best people in the industry. So it is kind of UK focused at the moment, but we have got people from the aar, we've got brand leaders, we've got an amazing board, we've got people, you know, varying, different people with different experience, but hugely respected in the world of agency and new business and winning new clients, hosting training programs for us, giving us insights, hosting events, we've got templates on this. So anyone, whether you're just starting your kind of career in an agency and you just want to hone your skills because you're going to start to be involved with pitches and you want to get better at converting, negotiating, whatever it might be, or if you're a leader of an agency and you want to know how to define your value proposition and set a strong sales and marketing strategy and how to recruit the right kind of person when you get to that point. It's got content on there for everyone. It's got some really awesome partnerships as well. We've got a really amazing partner marketplace with some of the best leading agency tech partners and I'm hoping zenpilot soon. So we've got some partnerships on there with some really amazing discounts. People like HubSpot etc. That are offering really good deals to exclusive deals to anyone who becomes a member. Yeah, it's super exciting. It's got everything in there and it's really accessible in terms of cost. And it will also put you in touch with loads of experts that you might go do. You know, I want to do some bespoke work with them and you can then go and work with them separately. So it's just one cost, it's a membership base. There's going to be an awesome community, I think, that comes out of it. We've got in beta actually, at the moment going live probably two to three weeks time on sale, and so I'm looking forward to that, start making some money. But it also services, you know, an audience that we can't sell to at the moment. So I have, you know, I have to qualify out of a lot of the opportunities that we get coming into us because they can't afford us. I want to help them. I wish I could mentor and help everyone, but we're a service business and I can't. Whereas this model anyone and everyone can sign up to, we can push the leads that we can't take on the streets. There is obviously a little bit of that involved as well, but the idea really was born out of being a bit less selfish. I don't need it to make money. I'm actually doing it because I. And it will help refer business to street as well. Of course. I don't need it to make money. I did it genuinely because I want to provide something that helps agencies get noticed, basically.

This is something that a lot of people are trying to figure out right now. How do we. We have all these people kind of in the ecosystem, we can use a little bit more help. They're not ready to work with us right now. And one of the conversations that comes up a lot, I think of, like, in the uk, obviously, Ian Harris running agency Hackers or some of the other.

Yes, love, Ian.

Communities out there. How do you think about staffing? Have you appointed one person internally who's kind of the lead in driving the community? What does that look like?

Yeah, I mean, it's a challenge because we have no money. Well, we do, but it's being funded. So the first thing is it's not just me. So we've got. I've got the largest shareholding, but it's me and two others, Jody osman and Richard McCardy, who founded in the UK the BD100, which celebrates the top 100 people in the world of agency business development. So we've got obviously a strong tie with them because they're now. They're now shareholders of TAMBA and, well, co founders of Tamba. It's us three at the helm. So there's three of us, which definitely has helped us scale and get everything done. And obviously it's been an investment that we've all invested in creating and we actually have. We're recruiting lightly but we actually have three people hopefully going to be working for Tamba full time. So it is costing us quite a bit of money at this stage. We've got someone who's responsible for marketing Tamba. I'm using one of my existing team to help us ramp up and get sales in. So they're treating us like they treat a client and then we've got exactly like you say, someone to come and manage the membership and make sure all the members are happy and that they're aware of the events and that they're also able to upload and get involved and do whatever they can do. And then the last one is someone to manage the content on the site because the key to the site's success will be interesting, helpful content as well as the community platform which the membership person will own. So, yeah, three kind of timbre roles. The sales one will keep as it is now and hopefully it will just start to build momentum and sell itself. Yeah, that, that's how it's structured right now and it's a big investment. But we've got such great interest. Even before we've gone live, we've had 80 people apply for the beta test, which is amazing without us really even giving it a huge push yet.

Right. That's awesome. Well, I think that's important to share though, that, hey, here's what goes into actually running even an early stage community. You've been in the space for a while. We've been in this space for a little over 10 years and I've seen dozens of agencies launch community and there's four of them that have stuck. A ton of people try to launch this model. Oh, it seems like a great, great deal. We get that recurring revenue coming in with very low effort and at scale. It's a great business model and to get to that scale, it's a challenging business to build up, but you don't get that skill without making investment on the front end.

Yeah. And it is an investment and we haven't got any funding. Actually we did get a small grant which was amazing, but it is self funded and it takes a lot of time. We've self built the platform. We've decided to go to T bespoke because we wanted to create something that was quite different and had things in that none of the other platforms that we could just buy off the shelf had. So it's been a journey and there's been lots of bugs and things go wrong and keep me up at night, but it's been a fun one and I am so excited to see how it performs and to grow it and to make it better and more helpful. And that's why we're doing beta testing. We want to get feedback of the people that are potentially going to buy it and make sure that we shape it around them and make it useful for them.

Yep. Awesome. Well, good. Well, Katie, I appreciate being able to come on and to share. Obviously, Canva is T A N B A IO, I think. Yeah, you got it Agency, right? Is it Street Agency?

Yeah. Look at me with all the trendy URLs, eh?

You're in good hands if you're with Katie. Well, that's awesome. Anywhere else that you'd point people to.

Follow your journey, I would say those are the two. The best two places. But feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. Katie with an IE street. And yeah, any questions, bring them my way.

Awesome. I appreciate coming on, being one to share. Thanks for your time, Katie.

Lovely to meet you, Gray. Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for listening to the Agency Journey podcast. Visit agency NCJourneyInsiders.com to join the podcast community and be sure to subscribe for future episodes.

The idea really, you know, was born out of being a bit less selfish. Yeah, I don't. I don't need it to make money. I'm actually doing it because I. And it will help refer business to street as well, of course. I don't need it to make money. I did it genuinely because I want to buy something that helps agencies get noticed, basically.

This is something that a lot of people are trying to figure out right now. We have all these people in the ecosystem. We need a little bit more help. They're not ready to work with us right now. And one of the conversations that comes up a lot, I think of in the uk, obviously Ian Harris running Agency Hackers or some of the other.

Yes, love Ian.

Communities out there. How do you think about staffing? Have you appointed one person internally who's kind of the lead in driving the community? What does that look like?

Yeah, I mean, it's a challenge because we have no money. Well, we do, but it's being funded. So the first thing is it's not just me. So we've got. I've got the largest shareholding. But it's me and two others, Jody osman and Richard McCardy, who founded in the UK the BD100, which celebrates the top 100 people in the world of agency business development. So we've got, obviously a strong tie with them because they're now. They're now shareholders of Tamba and, well, co founders of Tambour. It's us three at the helm, so there's three of us, which definitely has helped us scale and get everything done. And obviously it's been an investment that we've certainly all invested in creating and we actually have. We're recruiting lightly, but we actually have three people hopefully going to be working for Tamba full time. So it is costing us quite a bit of money at this stage. We've got someone who's responsible for marketing Tamba. I'm using one of my existing team to help us ramp up and get sales in. So they're treating us like they treat a client. And then we've got exactly like you say, someone to come and manage the membership and make sure all the members are happy and that they're aware of the events and that they're also able to upload and get involved and do whatever they can do. And then the last one is someone to manage the content on the site, because the key to the site's success will be interesting, helpful content as well as the community platform, which the membership person will own. So, yeah, three kind of timber roles. The sales one will keep as it is for now and hopefully it will just start to build momentum and sell itself. That's how it's structured right now and it's a big investment, but we've got.