The Basics of Process Design | HubSpot Admins HUG | October 25, 2022

Any CRM or any revenue operations process. So forgive me if some of this seems somewhat. It's not basic, but we really, we've tried to boil this down to like, the bare bones of something you could teach, like your grandma and grandpa of helping them understand what rev ops and CRM is and how building processes work. So let's jump in. I've told Kyle if you have questions, Kyle has license to interrupt me. I am not like a slide reader. I'm like a discussion guy. So if you have questions and want to poke in and have thoughts to share, please do. I like when discussions go different places. So we have three pillars that we really like to teach in helping people understand process design and revenue operations. And the first one, it kind of is a little unrelated to process design, but it's like the first thing you need to think about when you're building a CRM and RevOps process. Whatever you do, it has to fix something in the customer life cycle. And I want to give you an example. I've had people come to me and they've said, hey, I really, I want like a CRM that it can like run not only for my customers, but it can be like an applicant tracking system for my hiring process to. And I'm like, oh, that's actually a really interesting idea. Do you hire a lot? And they're like, no, no. We probably only hire like two positions a year, but it'd be really nice if it was automated. And I'm like, okay, that's just automation for automation's sake, right? That's process for processes sake. You're just. The OCD takes over a little bit as you're like, everything needs to go in the CRM. Like, everything needs to be regimented and have a process. I, I agree with that. I teach this. But the first thing that we like to teach, especially beginners, is that every single process you build, you need to be able to make a business case for how will this help our customers? Will this actually save us time and. Or help make our customers lives better so that they convert more often or we get more of them at the top of the funnel or wherever. Right? So color all of your process design thinking with this pillar. If we look at the customer life cycle, we do a lot of our examples with a fake company called Affluence Financial Planning. So Affluence Financial Planning has a funnel right at the top of marketing. I met you at a chamber of commerce meeting, booking an initial financial consultation, building a proposal and delivering it to the customer. Getting that proposal e signed and paid for and then a customer success and kind of renewal workflow of getting more proposals out for other members of their family. This is a great process. There's a lot that we can do in HubSpot or another CRM and hammering this process out. But really like let's focus on the low hanging fruit here. Like think about what can we do to make our customers lives easier. Are they having a hard time booking a consultation with us? Could we make maybe make it easier with a booking page? Are they wishing that they got an initial follow up right after we meet them from the meeting? And maybe a business card scanning app within HubSpot's mobile app could be the ticket. Like where are customers actually having problems and where can our process solve those problems? We'll talk more about that in pillar two. But again, like for you to be, for you to get paid to be a process design person, a rev ops person at your organization, you've got to make cash for that organization. And the way you do that is by impacting in a positive way the customer life cycle. That's how you, again, I kind of look at it as like your career. How are you going to add value and increase your salary and make your life a good one? And the way that you justify your value, the way that you make this process design work valuable is to link it back to customers. So I've repeated myself 10 million times on that. But I'm adamant about not automation or process for process or automation sake. Right? So revenue operations, you are expected to be like this, the Avatar and Nickelodeon. Please don't take this down. Anyone that doesn't understand this reference, Avatar, the Last Airbender, Earth, Air, Fire, Water. You in revenue operations are expected to be the person that is able to make use of sales and sales operations and marketing and marketing ops and then customer success and reduce churn and drive more renewals and upsells and cross sells. And so it's your job to be able to build a process that encapsulates effectively all of those different elements. Right? And so you need to be someone that can kind of work Cross functionally. You need to understand what the entire customer lifecycle looks like so that you can find bottlenecks in it and improve it. So the first thing that we harp on is in process design and this is kind of part of our second pillar which we'll talk more about. So again, first pillar, we find bottlenecks in the customer life cycle. But how do we actually do that? We do that through needs analyses and initial system outlines. So let's talk about a needs analysis. And this might sound a little bit like this kind of sounds like consulting speak. Needs analysis and system outlines and scopes of work. It's not just for consultants, any admin, anyone tasked with improving revenue, operations, design and process, you need to first understand and ask questions about that customer life cycle. Because there are a lot of people across the teams that you cover that understand a lot more about what the problems and bottlenecks are. And second, as part of an initial system outline, which we'll talk a little bit more about, your role is to be able to codify everything that people are telling you and turn it into, hey, this is a document that outlines and prioritizes what we like, how we are going to solve these bottlenecks, basically. So let's start by talking about needs analyses and questions. Question asking. So revops is when I call them the questions of the soul about the customer life cycle. You are the person whose job it is to take the step back and say, hey guys, I know that we're busy, but let's work on the business rather than in the business. Where are the pain points in our customer life cycle? You see, hey, people in sales, people in marketing, people and customer success. Where are we seeing problems? Where are our customers? Either we're not finding enough prospects or those prospects aren't converting well enough, or the ones that convert don't end up renewing or they cancel or we can't upsell much to them. Like, where are people slipping through the cracks? What proposals close the most often? Who's our ideal customer? Who, like, what do our ideal customer relationships look like? These questions, again, there are often people at the organization besides you that are better tasked with answering them. But you are the one whose job it is to codify those questions, right? Turn it into something that is, I guess, consumable and turn it into an action plan. I guess that's the best way of putting it. So I want to talk about this idea of like a needs analysis and asking questions. This is like, you could rip a lot of this stuff that I'm going to teach you straight out of like a relationship or couples therapy book. The active listening, asking great questions. You'll often hear me when I'm doing a needs analysis. When I'm talking with a client. You'll hear me say things like, okay, so what I'm hearing you say is your biggest bottleneck is xyz. Your proposal generation system is really broken and it makes your proposals look really unprofessional and thus a lot of your customers aren't closing on a life insurance policy because they don't trust you. Is that what you're telling me? Oh, yeah, Peter. Like, you've. You've understood it. It's really nice to feel heard like that. Literally, that's just. It's like couples therapy just applied to business, right? I shouldn't talk so much about couples therapy. I'm happily married. No stigma against it. But yeah, I read these marriage books and books about, like, friendships and relationships, and I'm like, this is literally just process design. Like, this is just making people feel heard about the problems that they see in accomplishing their goals and. And then taking good notes so they feel even extra heard and then repeating back to them to make sure that you understand. So something I've heard a lot that I really like to hone in on is that idea of being the, quote, dumbest person in the room. That doesn't mean that you're, like, an idiot, right? Like, you don't need to be stupid. That means that you are the person that is asking the questions to make sure that you clearly understand and that you aren't making it seem like you already perfectly understand the entire organization and its customer life cycle. And you don't need any help, right? Like, you've got all the answers. You don't have the answers. Your job is to ask questions. So we get to a point where we essentially codify those notes into a document. And this document, we call it the initial system outline, and it's comprised of two different things. It is synthesized notes of what's most important to them, and then it is a flowchart of their idealized process, right? Like, what they want to see happen. So give me a second. I'm going to actually pull one of these up because we have it. Everyone that's here, Whoops, that's not the right one. This one. Everyone that's here, we're going to make sure we send out this cheat sheet because we have a nice. We're going to brand it to look a little bit nicer. But it's our system planning cheat sheet. It's our things that you need to think about as part of this process of process design. But I want to show you the initial system outline. Can everyone can see my screen? Right? I know it's a little small. I'm going to zoom in.

Yeah, that's better.

So I give you a. This is an incredibly simple initial system outline because I don't Want you to be like freaked out that you need to build this gorgeous document that tells all the hopes and dreams and looks like the declaration of independence. So this is actually an example of an initial system outline that students are able to build coming out of our course. Like, this is what you can build when you come out of the Revops bootcamp. You are able to go into your organization, use our cheat sheet to run a needs analysis and you end up with three sections essentially. First, I mean, look at this. You introduce the company, but we barely do any work. You don't need to like tell everyone this is our organization, this is what we do. You don't need like a whole preamble, two page document. What you really need to hone in on is we have understood the customer life cycle. Hey, sales marketing, customer success executive team. Am I understanding correctly that this is our sales funnel? That this is our customer life cycle? We talked to Affluence Financial Planning and we understood that they go to lots of chamber commerce events, which they get business cards and phone numbers. They offer free classes and webinars. They have word of mouth referrals. Sometimes people call in, sometimes people fill out the web form. The sales process, in short, is we do a meeting, we get a proposal, we get them to sign it, and then we get them to sign contracts. The customer success and renewals process. We follow up with previous customers. This right here, this document, sear the following statement into your brain. Remember how we talked about mirroring and how active listening and repeating things back to people leads to understanding, trust everyone being on the same page. An initial system outline is just a written active listening tool. It is you showing that you have listened to what your sales, marketing and customer success and revenue teams have to tell you. That you have, that you have listened, that you care, that you want to help fix it and that you understand it enough. And this, that this doc represents you caring about them, reaching their goals and you and that they can trust you essentially with their goals and pain points. So we establish the customer life cycle just to make sure we understand. Yeah, in a perfect world, this is what this would look like. And then section 2 system goals and pain points sorted by priority. We don't touch the process until we have pain points and problems that we need to solve. Right. So Affluence Financial came back to us and they say, oh, it's super annoying right now. You guys don't have this problem, your HubSpot admins, but everything is in the Excel spreadsheet. Everything's a jumbled mess quotes and proposals are on people's computers. Okay, cool. What does that tell us? Well, we'll probably need to implement a CRM, right? But now let's go into some things that maybe let's say you already have a CRM, you're still going to have these problems. Lead intake is wonky. We have a web form, but the web form doesn't go into a single database. And we get notified by email. But then it kind of like goes to individual reps, emails and it's all like scattered. I get a business card at a chamber of commerce event, but then that business card, like how do I get it into somewhere where I'm reminded to do something with it? People fall through the cracks. It's really hard. Like people come to our events, but then we like never follow up with them. So that's kind of top funnel stuff. Then all people slip through the cracks. Like calendar bookings are a problem. We don't have any reporting. These are all, these are problems that you don't have to be like a mastermind, like come and do. You're not expected to walk in on day one of your job or on day 365 of your job and be like, oh, you need reporting. Oh, you need a booking tool right there. Oh, let's implement a quoting and CPQ proposal tool right here. Your ideas are great, but again, let's get back to this idea of the needs analysis. You can get answers of what needs to be done from the people that actually spend time in the roles that you are trying to help. You will get much, much further in building trust and in succeeding in implementing a process. If you have adamantly followed this process of ask questions, get answers, take notes, present notes back, make sure everyone is aligned, make sure everyone's on the same page, make sure that people have had a chance to be listened to. Now that doesn't mean like you need to go full group think and gather literally everyone in the organization together in a room to then put together every stupid idea that they have and put all of them in kind of equal order of priority in the new process. But people will implement systems where they feel like they were listened to. No one. I learned this Implementing CRMs. Like everyone hates the external consultants who comes in or the new hire who comes in and is like, what up dummies? Like, time for you to enter the 21st century. Those systems, they just, they don't work. They don't get buy in, right? So the initial system outline is your chance in a simple document to make sure that everyone has been listened to and everyone agrees about what the priorities are. But the initial system outline is not just text. We also are all about building the flowchart. Again, it doesn't have to look. We very purposely have not made this the sexiest flowchart on the planet so that you don't feel like it's worthless if it's not color coded 18 different ways. The flowchart is another way for you to say, this is how I'm understanding your system works. Are we on the same page? Have we properly identified it? We have a web form. It should go to a contacts module. We then see if they're a good fit. If not, they're lost. If yes, you probably want a calendar booking link. Okay, so a booking happens and a meeting happens and if they're still interested, we need some sort of proposal building tool. Am I understanding this flow correctly? If the initial system outline is where you identify kind of pain points, the flowchart is where you sell people on a vision of the future. Right. You are selling them on. This is what your bottleneck looks or this is what your customer life cycle looks like sans bottlenecks. And again, doesn't have to be beautiful. Honestly, the more complicated a flow chart is, the less people are likely to read it. The more simple and straightforward you can keep it, the better. So getting back to my kind of jumping through these slides, I want to kind of step back for a sec, of course, and talk about, We've talked about this pillar number two, this. The way that you will get a process implemented is by building outlines, plans and flowcharts. That's the like, like, this is a measure twice cut once situation. You have to gather feedback, digest it, add your own ideas, and then put it forward for proposal or stuff won't get done again. Doesn't need to be a mountain of paperwork, but, but we make sure that everyone is on the same page before we work on stuff so that our systems actually get used. And this, this is another thing I want you to sear into your brain. This is, this is like my favorite visual concept. So revenue operations is what happens when you take this funnel right here and you turn it into a flowchart. That is, that is ultimately what you are being paid for. A funnel is like a generalized idea of the different stages that our customers go through in their life cycle to give us money. A flowchart is when that life cycle turns into discrete steps where we're able to identify, oh, that's a bottleneck. We are Losing customers there, prospects are slipping through the cracks there. I am a big proponent of LucidChart for tools like this. I've also seen Miro Honestly, Visio, there's a lot of good tools at this point. It's kind of becoming standard. I for one have loved towards visualized thinking for revenue operations process design. I think that it's more inclusive for a lot of people that don't. I've had dyslexic friends that like writing big fat initial system outlines and it's been really cool to see kind of this visual thinking be an easier way for them to represent what happens. Again, a flowchart will often get you more buy in than just the written portion of the initial system outline. So let's say you're implementing a process. You now you've, you have thought through the customer lifecycle, you've done your needs analysis, you've taken all your notes and codified them into an initial system outline and a flowchart that's attached to that. And now what we tell people is ultimately we solve most of these problems. I mean your HubSpot admins, we solve problems by building and implementing no code software. I say no code. Obviously we do low code or code sometimes, but especially CRMs. This is how we solve most problems. And this is like another kind of important point to remember. It will take time for your brain to solidify its overall grasp of revenue operations. Some of you are mid career, you've been doing this forever. Some of you are maybe newer. No matter where you're at, it does take a lot of time for your brain to start thinking like a rev ops expert. For you to be able to walk into any business and be like, all right, here's your business model. There's your customer life cycle, there are your gaps. Like there's a problem, there's a problem, there's a problem. Go. The skill of being able to actually set up a CRM is the hard skill that helps get a Russian literature major a job where just the skill of kind of planning and flowcharting might not be good enough to get them hired, but being able to actually implement it within a CRM, that'll get you hired. So I want to talk about the idea of turning this flowchart into something that's a little bit more software tangible. So I want to show off what we call a final system plan. So final system plan is where you have taken the initial system outline and you have digested it into actual tangible CRM steps. So I want to Kind of repeat this concept. It is not easy as a junior level or first time admin or first time process designer for you to masterfully run this whole process. Design initial system outline needs analysis. Like there's a lot of soft skills and experience involved there that just take time. The place that you can add so much value is if you're able to take an initial system outline and say, all right, time to turn this into a actual functioning piece of CRM software. Like, time to go build this in HubSpot. So what are our modules and fields? Okay, we have the contacts and then we need to update the contact type property to include lead potential client and client. We want to make sure that these are our lead sources. It's a single select pick list dropdown. We want an interested service, single select pick list at the contact and maybe the deal level. We want statuses. We want, if we lose deals, the reason for disinterest. We want like at this point you are outlining the exact steps within the CRM of what needs to be built for you to actually be able to implement the process that you have outlined. These are the workflow rules. If you're on the professional tier above of if a certain field at the contacts level is triggered, then trigger this lead follow up email with this template. Here's how we want to enroll them into our marketing list. If the deal is created for someone, then automatically enroll the contact with a workflow rule into the newsletter list. Set up bookings, we're going to set it up and when the status is updated we'll automatically email them the bookings link or something like that. The final system plan, this is not necessarily, it depends on the team, but a document that's this planned out is not necessarily mandatory for getting buy in. Like you don't really show a document like this to the, to the CEO or to the CRO necessarily. They might not care that much. Right. They might not care about how you get it done in the CRM. Ultimately what they care about is do they like the vision from your flowchart and can you tell them, yeah, I'll be able to do that in the CRM. I will be able to implement that. So in a lot of cases what we tell people is the final system plan is more for you. It's more for you to make a to do list of what are all the modules and custom properties and workflows and sequences and stuff that you will need to set up for yourself and that is it. Man, you guys listen to. That was like a 30 minute monologue. Hopefully there's some usefulness here. The good news about us is that this entire curriculum is available kind of as you go. If you come to our website, we're happy to. For people that are interested, you can come and Kyle will put into the chat a link to our RevOps Bootcamp form and landing page. You can come learn a little bit more, look at the curriculum and then if you fill out a form for anyone that's here, we're happy to give you access to a lot of these courses just for free. We'll talk through. There's more stuff that comes as part of the bootcamp, but just the self delivered courses. We're happy to let you poke around and hear my baritone voice soothe you with knowledge of process design. This is what we like to teach. This is a skill that will make you more money in your career than almost anything else is the ability to navigate rev ops organizations through building their process. So I'll stop sharing. Sorry, I just no liliquid for hours.

You did great. I dare say. I mean people lean into the chat if I'm wrong on this, but it seems like you held their interest because there are still 86 people in the room. So if you were down to like 15, then I would have said, yeah, you talk too much. But I think, I think you're people. People are liking this one, one thing that, that final system plan you were talking about and how that's mostly for the person executing the stuff. I think it's interesting how I can imagine the flowchart piece, the CEO level, like executive summary of this is how we're going to make it all flow. The action of turning that into that final plan probably uncovers a bunch of like, oh wait, how would I do that? Oh, right. I would need properties and like I would connect it. Okay, I can do it. But at that high level, there's a lot of details that are just kind of glossed over and forcing yourself to document it out line by line. This is how I will actually do it. Will give you more confidence that this solution, this flowchart, can be realized correct.

And also the final system plan is where you start getting to the final questions of timeline. How much is this going to cost? How long is it going to take? Is this possible? Are some features just going to be sorry, you don't get those for a while? And ultimately you will need to make that case to get a project green lit. But again, when you sold them on that first vision, a lot of those questions become almost Secondary, right? Like, like, yeah.

Cool. Well people, if you have questions for Peter, now is your chance to ask them while you're thinking about it. I'm going to drop this survey link in here. I would love your feedback on this session, what you thought of it. If you want more like this. Peter is. We met recently, I don't know, a month ago and now it feels like we've been through a lifetime together as he's building this program specifically for HubSpot and it's early innings for the workflow academy and HubSpot working together. And I'd love to hear how more is going or what more you would like to in the future.

Yeah, we, we just, we love the HubSpot ecosystem. We, we're on a mission to take this type of thinking and give it to people at the beginning of their careers so that they can get in that they can become a HubSpot admin as a job. That, that, that really is the focus. So a lot of you, you are, you are. What's the word? Role models for my students. So if you ever, if anyone's interested in coming and even mentoring or talking to our students, that's also something that we really, really like to see. We've, we've jump started over 70 rev ops, CRM admin type careers to this point and we're now kind of just finally breaking into HubSpot as a niche. So dawn, great question. Typical timeline for one of these projects. Oh, I hate to be the annoying guy that says, oh it depends, it totally depends. But that's where the total implementation, the good news on a like the question of needs analysis, initial system outline, flowchart, final system plan that can be sprinted through and should be sprinted through if you have someone at your organization who like some sort of key stakeholder who's like, yeah, I want, I want a better rev ops life cycle. Like I want better process in place. I need you to jump on that yesterday. And the actual act of interviewing, getting people into the room, asking them questions, turning it into notes, turning it into plans, you guys can see it doesn't take. The documents I showed you hopefully are not super overwhelming or scary. This is not a massive, massive undertaking. This is something that really you can sprint through in weeks or a couple months at the latest. The longest one I've ever seen was, took me five months and that was because they were the most like every last minute detail had to be mapped out from the beginning for them to even want to start. But that was the exception and not the Rule weeks and maybe a couple months. The bottleneck you're going to see is if you can't get people into a room.

I just want to call out real quick. I did not drop in the link to the survey when I said I was dropping in the link to the survey. Now there's a link to the survey in the chat. So now please click the link and go give us some feedback. Peter, we did get one question in the Q and A here from Vereen. How do you prioritize action items and maintain buy in difficulty, impact price dependencies, et cetera?

Yeah, great question. This is why some of you might be like annoyed at how much at the beginning I talked about the customer life cycle and how that's pillar one. But the way that I answer any question about buy in and difficulty and identifying priorities is if you can make a case as part of your initial system outline for how every single thing you're going to do is going to turn into pictures of Benjamin Franklin printed onto US Currency. You will, you will get buy in, you will be able to get people to buy in and you will be able to better prioritize what needs to be done. So, so a lot of that's loosey goosey, right? You, you, A lot of it's experimentation. You are not 100% sure which is going to be the bigger return on investment or which. You'll hear me say a lot. Low hanging fruit. My clients get sick of it at a certain point of me saying that they're like, are we on some, Are we in an orchard, Peter? Like stop saying low hanging fruit. But it really is, it's like if it comes down to if we need to implement a booking tool so that our salespeople can more readily book meetings and, and spend less time like going back and forth with their prospects or we need to implement like an automated proposal building and generation tool where we can use the quotes functionality in HubSpot to ship like really easy, pretty looking standardized proposals that you don't need to go into Microsoft Word to work in. That. That is a hard ROI question. Right? It starts to be like how much time are the salespeople spending and how many of them are spending tons of time going back and forth on booking a meeting? Is it more important to raise the conversion rate at the stage of the prospects that get to a proposal versus increasing the number of prospects who might get a proposal by having more people take a meeting? Right. So it's, it's, it's hard. The good news is there's an amount of common sense you can have there in calculating it. Right. And you can have the salespeople answer that question for you. They can say, hey, actually when we think about it, a booking tool would be nice, but a proposal like, we send those out every day and if we even closed three more of them a month, it would pay for the salary of our new HubSpot admin. And you're like, ooh, hey, thank you. Maybe could it pay for a raise if we got four of them? Let's talk. So hopefully that answered the question of prioritization.

Yeah, I love this question from Phil. CRM implementation is essentially infinite. How do you go from initial MVP setup to ongoing work?

Love that question. Two ways of approaching that either at the outset, what I will sometimes see is your initial system outline literally might comprise years of work. And again, a lot of that comes back to prioritization and how long it actually takes to implement something in a CRM. But I've seen initial system outlines that are fairly short, but that comprise years and years, like all the way on line seven, it's like customer success process. And we've determined that customer success isn't quite important enough yet. Like, we need to fix our leaky marketing funnel and then fix our leaky sales funnel and improve our proposal. But then like 15 months later you're like, okay, time to start a customer success team. You'll see that at smaller orgs, right. Where they don't have a customer success team. Okay, we got finally got to line 7, time for customer success. So that's one answer is you might capture a lot of stuff in your initial system outline that you don't get to for years. The other one is I've seen a lot of orgs do every couple months some form of that needs analysis, initial system outline process. Because sometimes as you implement new things, priorities change. Right. So the answer probably is some combination of the two. There's going to be things that you dig up at the beginning that you're like, we can't even think about that for months and years. Like, we got so much work to do. But at the same time, it is helpful to come back multiple times. Right. Keep having these conversations. Yeah. Andres in the, in the chat says two to three month implementations. I, I do, I mean, varies on the organization. But I really like cadences like that because I will. I'm going to throw something out there. This should have been a pillar. Should have had this in a slide. Sear the following into your brain. Planning is amazing. Process design is Incredible. Measure twice, cut once. But if you don't actually cut, implement something that makes people's lives easier. If you just spend, like if you just keep planning and keep planning and keep planning, then people will eventually tire of you and you'll be that annoying person that talks a lot but doesn't actually get results. So yeah, that four to five month planning process I did, they finally got so sick of it that I was like, okay, shut up, stop planning. Like, let's go build something. And we went and implemented, we migrated them off their old CRM, implemented a bunch of cool stuff and then they were like, oh, okay, finally. That was sweet relief. Like the process has given, has given us what we wanted. So I agree with Andres. Two to three months, that's a tight, nice window to give people some tangible result of what you've built to whet their appetite for more stuff. Dawn asked about, she had two good questions. The percent savings are, is there a standard ROI tool that, that we provide? We probably should build that. That would be good. That's, that's something we should, we should look at really. Again, I hate to be so loosey goosey, but it is kind of like a little back of the napkin math. Sometimes it's like, okay, we've, well, you can't call it back of the napkin because some of this you have to pull like as reports from your HubSpot. It's like let's pull a report of how many deals did we create, how many languished in each stage if we could. And then, and then what amounts are they at? Right? Like what's the total amount in pipeline of stuff that died at a certain stage? Let's say that 10 or say a million dollars died at the proposal given stage and another $200,000 closed. The ROI answer there is, hey, that's a what 200,000 over 1.2 million. So 17% ish conversion rate. If we could crank that conversion rate with a better proposal tool up to 30%, then that's another hundred to 150 grand. That sounds like a great salary for a HubSpot admin. Like that's the, that, that really is how we approach it. And it's, it's like you gather data and numbers from the system and from the needs analysis to kind of get an idea of the scope of how much money is on the table at each kind of stage. But then it ends up looking a little bit back of the napkin. It ends up looking a little bit like our educated guess is that if we converted These at a higher rate. It would look something like this. And then one more question Don had. How do you handle the naysayer who doesn't believe cold hard cash, baby? Pillar number one always. Pillar number one always, always, always. If you can make a case that you will, that there is a point in the customer life cycle flowchart that something's happening that leads to you losing money or not making more money, then you will win against almost any naysayer. And part of cash too is part of that is like the cash that they'll have to spend on paying you to build something to fix that problem. So you will have to kind of factor your time into the equation. But absolutely everything, every initial system outline must lead back to cash. These are good questions. You've got a decent group of people here, Kyle.

I've got the best group of people in the world here, Peter. It is recorded, Kathy. Yes. So this recording will be shared out afterward. Peter, were you going to share that document with me too so I could send that out also or is there someplace.

Yeah, we'll send, we'll, we'll give Kyle a nice little goodie basket on his follow up email of, of stuff to send out to everyone. So you'll get, you'll get that cheat sheet. It's, it's, it's not our prettiest version right now. We just kind of finally codified it a few weeks ago. But you'll get the cheat sheet. We'll help get you access to our courses that, that you can go take and kind of self guide at the beginning and we'll go from there. Cool.

Well thanks everyone. I don't feel bad giving you 10 minutes back in your day. Peter, last question. If people want to get in touch with you, what's the, what's your preferred method?

Yeah, let me, let me put in the chat. We're going to put our rev ops boot camp and then I'll also put my personal email. If you guys were like salesforce admins, I'd give you some catch all sales@the workflowacademy.com but you guys, you get my actual email so I'll just throw it out there. If you are at an organization that's looking to solve some of these problems and get training to kind of think this way, we have, there's a lot more where this came from. The other nice thing is we, we have partnered with the Department of Labor, the U.S. department of Labor. They're, they're really happy to see U.S. based companies give their students this type of thinking. They see, they see employees learn what we have to teach and then they, they make more money and they grow and they become good taxpayers. So there are government subsidies available for if you are an admin or if you are an employer of an agency or whatever. If you fill out that form on the page that I sent over we can get into touch and probably set up some sort of training package that won't cost much or anything. So shoot me an email. Would be happy to talk. This was excellent. I really appreciated talking to everyone.

Yeah, agreed. Thank you Peter so much for being here everyone. Dropping the survey in one last time. If you have any feedback for me about the hug in general or Peter on this presentation and I think we're going to call it a day there so I'm going to tell the platform to start shutting down. That always takes a couple seconds longer than I expected to but yeah, thanks Peter and thanks everyone for being here.

Thanks Kyle. Thanks everyone. Good talking.

Bye bye.