The State Of Hiring Across The HubSpot Ecosystem
Jason Azikar, founder of Hub Search, breaks down hiring trends and salary data for HubSpot admins and RevOps roles. He covers what skills are in demand, how the market is shifting, and what people in these roles should expect to earn.
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Lovely. Thanks, Kyle. Thanks Deanna. Great to see you guys. All right, so let me start with the most basic intro that I possibly can. I'm Jason Azikar. I'm the founder and CEO at Hub Search. I hope everybody here has at least heard the name Hub Search before. This could not be more our target audience. So I hope almost everybody has at least heard the name before. If you haven't, I'll give you the very brief Genesis story a little bit about us just real quickly. So we're a recruiting company and at the most basic level, our job is to help HubSpot admins land their dream job. That's what we do. All of our clients, our HubSpot Solutions partners or HubSpot customers, they come to us and say we're struggling to hire somebody phenomenal who really understands how to be an operator inside of HubSpot's toolset help and we get to plug in and do all the recruiting and talent pipeline building, et cetera. It's a lot of fun. I was at HubSpot for many years, so this journey for me started at HubSpot. I was very fortunate to be a member of the recruiting team and then later a leader of the recruiting team from 2012 to 2015, a lot of fun, Very, very cool time to be at HubSpot. They announced the CRM was actually becoming a thing while I was there, which was pretty neat. I still remember the conversations in the engineering area of like, should we build a CRM? Should we just do a free CRM? No one's going to buy it, right? Like, it's not going to be a major component of our product any anytime soon. We're a marketing company. Like those were the conversations in 2012, 2013 and we all know where the CRM is today. So like I said, really fortunate to be at HubSpot early. ISH left HubSpot in 2015, did some consulting for a number of years around talent acquisition and recruiting. Got to, got to work with some really cool brands like Chewy and Klaviyo as fractional head of talent in Boston, which was a blast. And then in 2019 had the opportunity to start a recruiting company and Hub Search was born. The light bulb moment for us in 2019 was when we realized that nobody had built a HubSpot specific recruiting org. When we first started talking about the idea of really becoming hyper niche to HubSpot, we're like, this must exist. There's no way someone hasn't done this. There are several for Salesforce, Somebody must have already thought about this, right? In 2019, the Salesforce ecosystem already had at least two reasonably large successful recruiting companies. That, that was all they did. They had planted their flag in the Salesforce soil and said like, this is our specialty and nobody had applied that model to HubSpot. So we felt like that was an awesome opportunity. So we started in 19 and you know, about 5ish five and a half years later, we're coming up on 500 placements. So so far so good. It was a good bet. We've done most of our work in North America. We did acquire a recruiting organization in Columbia about a year and a half ago, which I'll talk more about, which was really fun. We are in the process of aggressively expanding into the UK and broader Europe, so lots of really fun stuff. All that being said, we've got what I think is a pretty unique lens on the HubSpot ecosystem, particularly from a talent perspective. One of the things we do with all of this data and conversation that we're exposed to is create the HubSpot ecosystem salary guide. I'm going to share my screen on it in a second. This is the fourth year we've done it. Basically every year we track all the Data we're exposed to in HubSpot, by the way, we don't use some, some secondary ATS. We turn HubSpot into a really slick candidate management platform, which I love and I'm happy to talk about that separately. It was a really cool, really interesting sort of bespoke build that was a lot of fun. But we track everything. So every time one of our, a member of our recruiting staff has a conversation with one of you guys, right? Somebody, somebody who's in the HubSpot ecosystem, an admin and expert, whatever it is, we track all that stuff. Every time I have a conversation with a potential client or a client, I'm tracking what they're offering for salary, how they're talking about required experience, years of experience, all these things, and all of that data gets aggregated at the beginning of each year into this, into the salary guide. So I will share my screen on that. I'll start walking through the slides. Kyle, Deanna, please, please interrupt me as we go with, with questions. I'm happy to stop at any point and double click on anything in any of these slides.
Okay?
Okay, you guys, we got it. You can see it.
Yep.
Okay, cool. So I won't just read back my what's new in 2012? I'm end up talking about all this stuff. Let me talk through some of these key insights because this, this is where I get to just sort of add narrative on top of all the data. So every year after we, after we go through the process of crunching all the numbers and looking at sort of trends across time and what's changed from the years, years prior, I get to kind of sit back and go, well, what do I think this means for the ecosystem? And I compile these key insights and the number one key insight from this past year was that HubSpot partners and HubSpot customers are hiring more technical professionals. This is phenomenal news for the HubSpot admin community. So I'll give you some, just some sort of like narrative evidence here. So in 2019, 2020, even into 2021, nearly all of our work was market related, right? Most of the requests of us was something like we need a phenomenal digital marketer who really understands how to do their work in HubSpot, right? How to get the most value out of HubSpot's marketing hub and marketing tools. And if they know a little bit about the CRM, cool, great. But it almost doesn't matter because it's not our CRM of record. We use it for some stuff, but we're on something else. And this really started to change. Like I said, 21 ish. And it started to substantially shift more technical, more toward the admin. Right. Everybody still defines HubSpot admin a little bit differently, which isn't totally wrong. There are lots of flavors of HubSpot Administrator. But when I say, when I talk about HubSpot Administrator in this context, I'm talking much more about primarily a CRM professional. Right? Somebody who is really focused on how an organization leverages CRM and marketing Hub, but really with more of a focus on CRM. And that's been a major shift for us. I mean, at this point, 8 out of 10 of our searches are focused on HubSpot CRM. And usually we hear like, hey, the more this person understands about marketing Hub service Hub to an extent, opsub to a lesser extent, the better. Right. Those are bonus skills. But really what we're looking for is somebody who understands from a technical perspective how do we get the most out of HubSpot's tools, which is totally different than a marketer who understands how to leverage marketing channels and tactics and do the work in HubSpot. So things are getting much more technical out there. The second key insight was that, and this is the partner specific thing, but the HubSpot partner ecosystem is changing quite a bit. It used to be that a HubSpot partner could really focus solely on spin the flywheel stuff. We're going to set up HubSpot for you. Well, we're going to set up Marketing Hub for you. Well, we're going to create a content plan and a calendar. We're going to write the content, we're going to launch it, we'll deploy it for you, we'll track it and we'll share some insights. And really almost no focus on CRM management integrations with other products. Like it was really a marketing hub play. And that that is very much changing. And we're seeing that in the ecosystem, specifically HubSpot partners that are in sort of this, what I would call legacy partner model are starting to struggle. And, and that's become. That became really evident to us in when we started looking at what segments of the HubSpot partner ecosystem we're leveraging our service to grow. And it really started to become this newer wave of HubSpot Partner, which is much more looking like a technology services provider, much more like integrations, sophisticated and complex implementations, integrations, et cetera. Those tend to be the HubSpot partners that are growing. Number three, which should really hit home Here, I Hope is that HubSpot customers are investing in HubSpot admins. This is a wonderful thing for the ecosystem and it's a major shift from the years past. I mean, look, HubSpot themselves for many years sold HubSpot on the idea that it's so simple, it's so intuitive, you don't need an admin. And it was, I mean that was true for many, many years when HubSpot was really just a marketing tool, marketing automation product that did some other fun stuff. Frankly debatable. You probably should still have had a HubSpot admin which in those days would have been a marketer who really knew the tools. But it was designed for SMBs, right? It was designed for small businesses where an existing member of the team could go to the academy, get everything they needed to run their instance. And this has really started to shift and we saw a marked shift last year where HubSpot customers are starting to recognize broadly that they need someone to run the product, they need someone to own the tools. And it's probably not a marketer. It's almost always these days, some flavor of an operations professional. I'll talk more about this stuff when I get to the HubSpot admin slide. But HubSpot admins these days are generally coming from an ops track right there, Sales ops professional. You're a marketing ops professional, you're somewhere in the operations world and you become a HubSpot administrator. And we're seeing it across all different sizes of HubSpot customers. Right? Of course bigger, you know, mid market companies are going to need, are going to need an admin. But we're seeing it across smaller organizations too. Three to $5 million companies that have 15, 20, 25 employees are now starting to hire HubSpot admins, which again is exceptional news for this audience because it means that the pool of opportunities is growing substantially. You know, it used to be that it was difficult to find an opportunity where a company was looking for an admin. Right? It was difficult to find the right position. Now the, now the opposite is true. Lots of opportunity, difficult to find. A really great HubSpot admin number four was interesting. So we, we started to see that North American HubSpot partners are starting to hire in Latin America quite a bit, frankly. This is, this is why we chose to make an acquisition in Colombia to take advantage of this trend. What we've started to see is this isn't exactly HubSpot admin statement. This doesn't quite impact the admin crowd. This is Much more of like an earlier career operator type role that is being shifted outside of the U.S. but we're seeing it quite a bit. We're starting to see HubSpot partners push things like think about a HubSpot specialist, somebody who might be earlier in their career just starting down the track where they want to become a HubSpot administrative, but they're not quite there yet. That type of role is being pushed outside of the US for a number of reasons. Cost is obviously one of them, but it's a trend that we're starting to see. And number five was a bit of a shock to be honest, was that digital marketing salaries have stagnated. So when we really started crunching the numbers and we got into the salary comparisons, this was the first time across any segment that we track where we saw a slight decrease in average salary and it was with digital marketers. And I think there's a number of, there's a number of potential reasons there. I think the primary driver here was there was such escalation in salary across Covid that I think what we've started to see is a bit of a correction. So like if you took a seven year chunk, if you took a six or seven year window, salaries are still way up, but they've started to level off from the, from the things that we saw during COVID I won't read these quotes back to you guys. Anybody, anybody who's on this. By the way, if you don't have a copy of this, of this salary guide, go to hubsearch.com it'll be one of the first CTAs. You can download the thing. Skip that. Okay, this is important. Employees, aka HubSpot admins, how to use this guide. Why is it valuable for you? Well, lots of reasons, not the least of which is understand what you're worth, right? Understand what your skills are worth in the job market. And we'll talk a lot about that stuff today. And I can, I'll just give you, I'll give you a round number. So what we're seeing this year is that HubSpot customers hiring for a HubSpot admin. And I would put this in the senior individual contributor range. 90 ish to about 125 to 130 is what we're seeing. I mean really, really good numbers. And that has, that has been tracking up over the years. And I could talk, we can certainly talk more about what senior individual contributor means. But anytime I'm talking to a HubSpot customer that talks to me about Describes their need. And I'm going, okay, this is clearly a great senior admin. That's the numbers we landed. And there are outliers, of course, but on average 90 ish to about 125, 130. Another way that you can use this guide is if you find that you're underpaid, which, which you might. Right. But part of the value here is to compare, you know, have a truthful comparison about your skills, where you are in your career as it relates to the data that we found. If you find that you're underpaid, this, this guide can be a piece of content and a bit of a supporting data. When you ask for a raise, right. I'm sure I'm not telling you guys anything anyone doesn't know, but just asking for a raise is never enough. You have to say, I believe I'm worth this based on this data. And that's always the way the conversation starts. It's never just, hey, I want to raise, I have done the research, I know I'm worth this. And then show some of the supporting data and this guide can be that for you. And that's number three. Right? Support your conversation with data. And let me say one other thing there because I just, I think it's. We're talking about the, we're on the topic of asking for a raise. I think it's a really important thing to mention. The answer isn't always going to be yes, obviously. Right. In many cases you're going to get a, you know, we, we love you, we think you're valuable, we want you to stay, but a raise just isn't in the budget at the moment. Which is an okay answer, right? I mean, you're asking for cash expenditure that the business may not have been expecting, but so important that the next statement is, okay, I understand, but let's build me a plan. And I think that's a part of the conversation that people often miss. Right? You ask for the raise, the answer is no. You go back to work dissatisfied, not feeling great about the conversation, when in that moment you've got the opportunity to say, okay, I understand that it may not be in the budget. Now, how do we get me there? What are the things that we can build structurally into a plan for me over the next three to six months so that when I come back and have this conversation with you in that timeframe, I can say, I did this, I did this and I did this, which you told me would earn me a raise. It's such an important way to approach the conversation if the immediate answer is no or not right now. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about defining junior versus senior versus mid career. This is our opinion, right? I mean everybody, literally everybody will define these things differently. And let me give you a little, let me give a little context on this before I, before I dive into the content on the screen. Years of experience is my least favorite qualifier. And what I mean by that is we have conversations with, with individuals that we're working with. Like when we're, when we're working with HubSpot admin, for example, and we're working with them on their job search. We find commonly that somebody with, let's say seven years of experience hasn't actually had the same level of exposure to sophisticated or complex problems as somebody who's only been doing it for three and a half or four years. So years of experience is in no way an indicator of level of skill, but it is a part of the conversation. Right? And it's, honestly, I think it's a part of the conversation because it is just so ingrained in, in people's brains as I should. This is the way that I can quickly look at a stat and know whether somebody is senior or not. Not necessarily true. I mean, in my opinion, the reality of the situation is there are plenty of people who are more senior at four years of being an admin than folks that have been doing it for eight years. So take that for what it's worth. But that's, that's my opinion. The way we define it is entry level generally means your first job something like zero to one year into your path. And when I say, and this isn't necessarily your first job ever, this absolutely applies to folks who are changing careers. So you, you know, you did something, you got out of school, you did something for a couple of years and you decided, hey, I really want to follow a path toward becoming an expert in HubSpot. Like I'm choosing this path. Well, the first thing you start doing puts you in this entry level position even though you may have done something else for a number of years. So this is really like years on the path, on the path toward becoming a HubSpot expert. HubSpot admin. So 0 to 1, entry level junior, which, look, I don't love the word, but it's, it's a good, it's just a good way to describe it. Junior something like one to three years. Right? You're, you're, you're past the point where you've Gotten value from curriculum, courses, training. You've done, you've done all the things in HubSpot Academy as you should. Excellent place to start. You've started to put that stuff to work in practice in a job, right? You're learning, you're learning HubSpot and how to actually leverage HubSpot to produce business outcomes, which is a really important component of this thing. Learning HubSpot on its own is one thing. Learning how to use HubSpot to drive the growth of a business is a different thing. And you've got to combine those two things to get further into this, into this spectrum here. So by the time you reach mid career, which again something like four to seven years, you've started to combine those two things. You have the, you know, imagine you're in an interview and you now, you now have the ability to say I impacted the business. This business that I was working at for the last couple of years, I impacted the business in these ways. I enhanced these metrics, I enabled these things, et cetera. You can talk about the value that you injected into the business because of your understanding how to best leverage all of the tools available in HubSpot. That's such an important, that's such an important distinct differentiation and distinction between I know the tools and I can demonstrate that I've added value to a business by using these tools. That's super important. And then once you get beyond that point, you get into this senior range which we talk about as eight plus years and it's just a continuation of the mid career, right? You've now you can say, you know, I've been at two or three companies where I've been able to impact the following metrics in important ways. And generally the more senior, you've started to get more exposure to sort of the edge cases of HubSpot. So some of the most complex things which I can talk more about, but this is, this is where we do an awful lot of our work. Most of our work, frankly, most of the stuff that our clients come to us and say, hey, we can't find this person, we really need help is somewhere across mid career to senior. Occasionally we're in the junior bucket and occasionally we're in the senior leadership like senior director, vp, C suite, like more, more leadership, more executive search. Most of our work is mid career to senior. And I say that because companies often find that in the junior range they can actually find what they need because there isn't an expectation that this person comes in and knows all the things and can Contribute day one Right. Hiring at the junior range generally means a company understands there will be training, there will be ramp up time, they're good with that and they make an investment there. And that's the thing most companies can actually find on their own. Once we get to the much more senior ranges like senior director, vp, C suite, more often than not that's somebody who's grown into that seat. Right. Somebody who had been mid career or a senior and grown into a leadership role. This, this mid career to senior range tends to be the most difficult thing to recruit for. Which is, which is why it is what our clients are asking of us. Okay, so this is the HubSpot admin slide. I'm not going to read this whole thing back to you guys. I'll let the slide speak for itself and obviously if you, if you don't have this thing, go download it afterward. But this is exactly what I talked about. On average we're in the 90ish to 125, 130 range. Let me talk a little bit about the outliers. So when we get above 125, 130 and it's not a leadership role, what we find is it is the most technical version of the HubSpot administrator, which isn't developer by the way. I have this conversation with companies all the time. Right. We have a potential client or a client come to us and say we think we want a HubSpot admin. We need this person to come in and be able to build custom code and be able to write in JavaScript. And I go timeout. It's not that that doesn't exist. Are there some HubSpot admins that also happen to have taught themselves how to code? Sure. But generally speaking that is not how I define HubSpot admin. Right. The sort of. The average HubSpot administrator didn't go to school for computer science, wasn't building apps in their spare time. It's much more of a systems administrator ops professional. That being said, what some businesses do need is somebody who can do all of the HubSpot admin things and has the ability to work with code. It's rare, but it does happen. That's, that's the type of stuff that really pushes the upper boundary. Let me give you another example. Another example of the type of thing that would push the boundary is really sophisticated integrations. And this is the thing we actually see on a fairly regular basis is that the management of complex integrations. And I'm not talking about what I'M not talking about is HubSpot to some other modern SaaS product. All right, HubSpot to some other modern SaaS tool. Reasonably straightforward. I mean difficult. You've got to learn how to manage the API like it's, it's a thing that takes practice and, and you've got to learn as an admin. What I'm talking about here is more like I'll use ERP as the use case. So manufacturing company, you know, $20 million manufacturing company is onboarding into HubSpot and their challenge is how the hell do we get this? How do, how do we get our ERP that was built in 1997 by hand in some super outdated language to have bi directional data flow and sync with HubSpot. That happens on a pretty regular basis, like that type of consideration. And that's when we, that, that's also the type of stuff that starts to break the upper limits of HubSpot admin is this really sophisticated and ongoing management of an integration less relevant account strategist we can probably skip. I don't know. Kyle. Dn, how much do you want me to go into some of these other titles? I'm happy to, but I think it's less relevant for. Well, let me talk about RevOps.
Yeah, let's definitely talk about RevOps. I would also assume those other titles are less relevant. But sound off in the chat if you want to dive into one of those because Jason is here.
Sure, yeah. If anybody, if anybody wants to dig into any of this stuff, I'm happy to. I'll try to keep this, at least the ones I picked, just offhand, a little bit more technical. So RevOps is super interesting in many ways for. I don't think it's a stretch to say that essentially everybody still defines it incorrectly. We're, we're, we're working on it, guys. We're, we're trying, we're trying to standardize the definition of RevOps, but it is still used in many, many, many different ways in many cases. What I find is that when I, when I'm starting the conversation with a potential new client, like I get introduced to some company, HubSpot gives me a referral to one of their customers. I never start with title right because most organizations, there's no, there's no common language, they haven't studied this thing by the time I, I'm having my first or second conversations. So I always start with, okay, talk to me about what your business needs. Like, what are you trying to, why did you buy HubSpot what are you trying to accomplish? What does your current team look like? What are the capabilities? And sometimes I land on HubSpot admin and sometimes we land more on RevOps and there is definite overlap right. I think about HubSpot admin and hubs and revenue operations as you know, two sides of the Venn diagram. There's, there's definitely that, that overlapping area, the Rev Ops per the RevOps professional is, is definitely more strategist still definitely technical, still can execute in HubSpot to a certain degree but is much more business outcomes to technology alignment strategy on how do we think about using technology primarily HubSpot to accomplish the goals of sales, marketing and service. And I think that is generally what we see. I mean this is also an area that has started to drastically increase in popularity and in need amongst HubSpot customers. And a really interesting trend that we've started to see more recently is that bigger HubSpot customers with, with more ability to put resources into a HubSpot team will have both of these people. They'll have a HubSpot admin and a Rev Ops professional who is HubSpot specific. And that's, that's a power dynamic. I mean that's, that's a power team. So the HubSpot admin is really thinking about systems management, systems usage, data consistency, security, accuracy integrations and their counterpart, the Rev Ops person on the team is almost more in like a business partner role. That's the person who's going okay, senior leadership, what do you need? Tell me what your team, what your department needs from the systems, what are you trying to accomplish? And then the Rev Ops professional goes and translates that stuff into into build, you know, into plans for build and then works with the admin to produce the systems that'll accomplish the goals of the business. And the ranges here are really good. I mean not all that Dissimilar from the HubSpot admin 90ish to 125130 I would say is still, is still the average range. The stuff that will break the upper boundary here is what I've started to see HubSpot customers do is select a Rev Ops professional to put into more of a leadership role. So they're thinking about Rev Ops as a leader of an ops department. Right. So there is still some siloing that's taking place. Even though we all know that the idea of RevOps is to destroy the silos, that isn't always what we see. In actuality, what we'll see is that A company has an existing, a HubSpot customer has an existing ops structure, or they've got a person or two in sales ops, they've got a person or two in marketing ops, maybe even somebody in success ops more rare. And instead of escalating one of those people into a leadership role, they go hire a revenue operations professional who's got a broader view of ops holistically to lead this department. And that's a really cool search for us. We love writing that. It's a lot of fun and it's a really cool escalation of responsibilities where I think it aligns really well with the spirit of RevOps, which is, you know, again, broadly, how do you align technology with, with outcomes? Okay, this, I love this bucket. So excuse me. So, HubSpot Solutions engineer and architect. Very, very cool sub category of our ecosystem. This is generally more a position within HubSpot Partners. Right? So think about this. I mean, this is essentially the equivalent of HubSpot admin for the partners. Right? So we're at. Whereas a HubSpot customer would have an administrator, a HubSpot partner would have somebody in a role like this. HubSpot Solutions engineer, architect. And in many ways it is the same background, just in an agency environment versus, you know, brand side. And this, this is the person who, this, this role is used in many different ways, but generally speaking, this is the person who from the agency side would plug in like fractional admin to their clients. Right. Talk to me about what do you need from the systems? What data are you trying to track? How can your CRM be most useful? They're doing discovery with clients and then stepping back and building plans, building architecture and working with a team of executors on the agency side to go deliver technology solutions back to the clients. Pretty cool role. And you guys can obviously see that there is a bit of a pattern here in terms of average range of comp. The rev Ops Professional, the HubSpot admin and this role fall in about the same band of 90 ish to 125, 130 on average. And again, there are things that break the mold, of course, like we talked about, but that tends to be this the area of again, senior individual contributor for somebody who's really mastered, really mastered HubSpot, which again, just before I move on, has been tracking up over the years and I strongly believe will continue to track up. One of the things that we pay close attention to is what's going on in Salesforce territory. Like what's going on in the Salesforce ecosystem and there are a number of, there are lots of companies that report on comp data for Salesforce and if you backdate by about seven to eight years, we're on almost the exact same trajectory. So a Salesforce admin in many cases is still going to make a little bit more than a HubSpot admin. But those two numbers are starting to equalize, especially as HubSpot gets pulled up market, which for anyone who's paying attention is clearly the strategy and where they're headed. That will be a major driver of, of HubSpot administrators salaries and hourly rates. Right. If you're, if you're a consultant in this world, if you're a contractor doing HubSpot administration as a consultant, those numbers are going to be creeping north for years to come, which obviously is great news for this ecosystem. All right, HubSpot dev. This, this is a really cool category also. So we hear this term used incorrectly all the time. Very frequently I have a conversation with the HubSpot customer looking to hire and what they say is we need a HubSpot developer. And what I find is that they're actually talking about an admin. So when, when we talk about HubSpot developer, there are, I think broadly there are a couple of categories of professional that I would put in this. In the HubSpot developer category, most common is the CMS developer. Right? Somebody who knows JavaScript, knows Hubble, knows HTML CSS. Like a really niche front end developer is essentially what this thing is and it doesn't actually come up all that often. Generally companies don't need this thing unless they're creating custom themes, which does happen, but not super commonly. So it's a really niche thing. The other component here is more of a backend developer who has become focused on HubSpot integrations. Right. Building back to the manufacturing ERP to HubSpot integration example that I gave. That is an example where you've got to have someone who's building custom code and that's an example of the HubSpot backend developer that has become more common and I think that will continue to become more common in the front end component. And the numbers here again the consistency is in your face. It's like at the, at the senior individual contributor level for folks that really know HubSpot, we're in that 90ish 125, 130 range. All right, I'll skip the employers component. I already talked about this. This is sort of what I talked about on the. If you find that you believe you're undercompensated. This slide summarizes a lot of what I just talked about. Like, he asked for the raise, right? For sure. Ask for the raise. And if the answer is we can't do now, don't leave that conversation until you get your manager to commit to a plan. Because, because look, if you're, if you say that sentence, if you say, look, okay, I, I want to understand what the plan is. How do I get there? And you, you receive pushback, right? The response is, well, we're not really willing to do a plan. Well, what you've actually just uncovered is you're not. You're not getting a raise at any time soon. Right? You're locked into your number for the foreseeable future, which might be okay, right? You might say, you know what? I'm okay with that. I love. I love my company. I'm really happy where I am. But you might also find that that's unacceptable based on what you believe your value to be. And you may choose to start exploring your options. This is a shameless plug slide. No need to go into that.
Jason, before. Sorry, back up. Do you want to give a shout out to Sprocket Jobs and talk a little bit about how that works?
Oh, sure. Okay. So I'll just talk a little bit about all the different things we do. So, yeah, we talked about, we talked about Columbia North America. We talked about Sprocket Jobs is a job. A. A HubSpot specific job board that we created. That is, it's doing okay. Frankly, I thought it would get more traction than it has. It's. It's doing all right. Definitely. Check it out. Do not use it as your one source. It's not that yet. I wish I could claim that, like, that is the place where you're going to find your next HubSpot jobs or your next HubSpot position. I wish it was. It's not. It's not quite that yet. I'm more than happy to be super candid on that. But it exists and p. And there are jobs constantly being, being shared through Sprocket Jobs. So as, as a part of your group of resources, as you're looking for something new, check out Sprocket Jobs. Look, if you're looking for something new, if your goal at some point in the coming months is to find a new position, broadly reach out to Hub search. Right? I mean, our job in this ecosystem from, from, from the candidate view, from, from the HubSpot admin view is you reach out. You'd have a conversation or first of all, you would send us some data on what you're looking for. Right. Fill out a form and tell us, like, all right, broadly, here's what I want to see. Each of those gets routed to a member of my recruiting staff. We categorize it in a bunch of cool ways in HubSpot and then when we take on a new search, that's the first thing we look for. We go to HubSpot and we go, all right, show me everybody who has joined our candidate roster, who, who matches these criteria. And that's when you would hear from a member of my recruiting staff. So, Frank, let us do the work for you is the idea. Right? Like don't, don't feel like your only option is to go click a bunch of apply buttons, let an agency do the work for you. That's, that's our job.
Cool.
All right, cool. I think that's all the slides. Let me get out of this thing and go back.
Yeah, we have a whole lot going on in the chat. I will export that out afterwards so you can just wade into it like a warm bubble bath. Because people love what you're doing.
Love it.
For the time we have left, I'm going to head over to the Q and A and we'll get through as many questions as we can. Everyone, if you want to hop over to that Q and A tab and upvote the questions you're most interested in, we will work through the most popular to least popular and see how far we can get in the 17 minutes we have left. So I'll give that just a few seconds.
You know what? One thing I did forget to mention, which I'm already starting to think about the next version of the HubSpot salary guide. And one of the things that we've started to see, and this was probably always true, but we have started to get more involved in communities and events this year and I've started to see a really interesting opportunity for candidates. So for, for example, Sprocketeer, if anybody's listening to this and isn't a member of Sprocketeer, that that's your first stop when this thing ends. Like being a member and an active member in Sprocketeer is the ultimate no brainer, right? For a bunch of reasons. Is that the thing that's going to land you your next position? Probably not. That's, that's not the intent of it, but it is absolutely how you can continue to further your skills, engage with the community and potentially meet the person who's going to introduce you to your next, your next company. So it's, it's a no brainer and the events thing has been really interesting. Right. So I'll give the Impact Live event is a great example right where, where I bumped into you last week or two weeks ago. Kyle. So there, there are lots of, of smaller events that are taking place throughout the year that I almost never see candidates attending and I think that's a miss. You know these are events that so impact a big HubSpot partner. I'm sure you guys know Impact, they host a thing called Impact Live. It used to be twice a year. Next year it's just once a year. These are pretty affordable events and essentially everybody walking around there is a leadership, is a leadership member at a HubSpot customer. I mean you could essentially turn it into a career fair for yourself. I don't see, I don't see anybody doing that. It's, I think it could be a really interesting hack. Right there's and I'll just mention a couple that I know are coming up. So Aptitude 8 HubSpot Elite Partner. I'm sure you guys know that name. They have an event coming up. I think it's November 14th in New York City. Same deal. Everybody there or most of the people there our represent leadership representatives from HubSpot customers and for and for not a ton of cash you can go join an event like this and make it a phenomenal networking opportunity. Mapsapalooza is a very cool thing. I'm sure a lot of you guys have heard of this. If you're, they're doing a big event in LA coming up. I think it's November 3rd or November 4th. If you're anywhere in the LA area, going to Maps of Palooza is a complete no brainer. I mean you're going to be amongst peers and lots and lots of companies trying to figure out how the heck do we hire a phenomenal office professional. So attending events like these I think is a, is a further your career hack that lots of people aren't doing.
And I think more and more in person events are happening. They are coming back and I don't think any, I don't think everyone always hears about them but I somewhere in the world on at least a monthly basis there are HubSpot people getting together.
There's so much. Yeah. And they're all over the, and they're all over the country. They're not cheap. They're not cheap necessarily. A lot of these things will cost you 100 bucks or a couple of hundred bucks for it for a ticket. But depending on the effort you put into conversations while you're there, that could be the biggest, no brainer investment in your career.
Cool. Let's hop into these questions. Our top question with 19 votes from Jill. Where do HubSpot Academy certifications fit in? Does having a lot of them help establish someone as more of a senior level or are they just a nice to have?
Okay, maybe the question in our space right now. They are. They are required. You've got it. You got to have your HubSpot Academy certs. Okay. But it doesn't necessarily, it doesn't necessarily distinguish you from others because lots and lots and lots of people have them. But it is, they're important. Right. It will demonstrate. I love the academy. It does amazing work. The Certs are important. They're an important starting point that demonstrate that you as an individual have taken it upon yourself to further your knowledge of HubSpot, which is really important. Do they necessarily mean you can do the most sophisticated things in HubSpot? No, but that's not the intention. Right. I know there are organizations that are working on more advanced, deeper dive, more hands on boot camps, training academies. That stuff is going to be coming in spades in our ecosystem in days to come. But I think HubSpot Academy certifications is, is critical. You've got to have them.
My honest take as someone who works at Hubslide Academy is it's a signal of your commitment to the ecosystem and to the software more than it's a signal of your skills and capabilities. Right. Like if you.
Exactly right.
If you haven't taken the time to take some HubSpot Academy certifications with some of them won't take you more than a couple of hours to earn, then that's a, that can be a sort of a red flag that maybe you're not really in the space. So I, I'd say a lack of them disqualifies you more than having them qualifies you. Maybe is a fair thing.
It's all, it's all upside. I mean, why wouldn't. Yeah, they're free, they're free, they're there. You're going to get something cool out of them. Why, why wouldn't you do them?
Yeah.
And you look, you don't need, you don't need 30 of them necessarily. But being able, you know, being able to. How many are there, Kyle?
More than 40 now if you include the ones that are partner only. But yeah, no pressure.
You don't need all.
I think those days are gone.
Yeah. Look, you don't need all of them, but tough to say that you're a committed HubSpot professional, but you haven't done the things that HubSpot themselves offers. You've got to be able to show some of that stuff on your resume.
Yeah. And I think, especially if you're. This is you correct me if I'm wrong here, but I imagine if you're a generalist, right, you're a HubSpot admin. Right. Because you're here at HubSpot Admin Hug and you want to show like, yeah, I have broad knowledge. I know something about social media marketing, content marketing, but also things about sales and also things about customer service. Like these are just little ways specificity in your generalist knowledge.
So I totally agree and I think they're. The answer differs a little bit depending on where you are in your career.
Right.
If you're an aspiring administrator and you're like, man, how do I get my first HubSpot job? How do I get the first thing in this path? Well, then they're really important. Right. Because what you're trying to convince an employer is I've got the potential to be a very good HubSpot professional. I haven't done it yet. I need the shot, I need the chance. But as some proof that I'm committed to this thing, I've got 11 certs. I've got all the certs I can get without having access to a HubSpot portal. Like, give me the shot.
Yeah, Yeah, I love that. That's great. Annie asked, do you have resources for job descriptions and salary guides for HubSpot CRM admins? I'm in a new role as an admin under the umbrella of marketing systems administrator. And I think it's not encompassing the value I'm bringing.
That's interesting. So HubSpot admin is definitely a catch all title and it's internal language to some degree. There are 20 other titles that should probably be listed as HubSpot Admin. And that's, that's a great example. The title is so variable in our world. Like when we're onboarding a new client, title is the thing we do last. I go, look, whatever you're thinking about calling this thing, just pause on that for a second. Tell me exactly what you need. What is it? You know, the discovery stuff that we do. And then I go, okay, you should probably, your title is great. Which happens maybe 10% of the time or really, really what you want here is HubSpot administrator or something? Again, there are some to directly answer the question. We don't directly have job description resources, but there are lots of good ones. Let me make sure I understand the question. Is the question really more about like you want to build yourself a job description that better represents what you're actually doing and your value to the business? Like I think that's the spirit of the question.
That's what I'm understanding too. This is, this is question but it's been upvoted 12 times so she's clearly not alone in having it. If you all want to weigh in in the chat on your thoughts here for the sake of time, I'm going to move us on, but sounds like there's a lot to dig into.
Just build. Build your own. The short answer there is build your own. You can't, you can't really mess it up. If it's a thing you're doing in your day to day, just bullet point out all the ways you're adding value to the business and all the ways you're interacting with HubSpot that essentially GPT. Yes, yes. Stick all the things that you're doing for your business into GPT and say send me back an awesome HubSpot admin job description.
There you go. That's actually an excellent use of AI tools.
Totally.
Chris asks, do you have data on ranges for HubSpot Solution partners? I would also be curious about any data about the ways roles are built out across the solutions partner landscape.
Definitely. So that data is included in the averages within the salary guide. Cool. And it does differ a bit. Right? Generally speaking, let's just take the HubSpot administrator role generally. So HubSpot administrative, assume that's a customer position. HubSpot Solutions Engineer, Solutions architect, similar skills but for a partner, the numbers are marginally better on the, on the customer side. Generally they're companies with deeper pockets. It's just the reality of the situation. You know, if you're working for a $30 million manufacturing company or whatever it is, chances are your salary is gonna be better than if you're working for a 12 person agency. It's just, it's just the reality of, of the types of businesses and the margins they can drive. But they're not vastly different. Maybe, maybe 10, 15% better on the customer side.
Related question from Michelangelo. Where do you see a more promising career in the future working for a HubSpot agency or for a HubSpot customer? So this is you just like, but like long term, what do you see.
Depends how you splice it, which I promise I won't dodge the question, but it does depend on how you look at it. I strongly believe that one of the things we're going to start to see amongst partners is consolidation. We have seen it. We are seeing consolidation amongst the HubSpot partner ecosystem. Every week you see some acquisitions, some merger. Smartbug and Globalia Aptitude a just merge with obo. I mean there are lots of organizations that are coming together which will reduce the volume of opportunity because these larger organizations will have better ability to leverage their resources. So there will be fewer. Really what I'm saying is there will be fewer seats. I think the stronger long term opportunity is customer side.
Interesting.
Right. And I just think that the easiest way to think about it is HubSpot is laser focused on more customers. More customers. More customers.
Yeah.
That's not the same. On the partner side, HubSpot is not obsessing over how do we get more partners. In fact, probably the opposite. How do we have fewer, more technical, bigger, more enabled partners that are credentialed?
Yeah, I think one thing. Or accredited rather. I think one thing I would point out though is like fewer seats in partner land. Certainly. But if you join a HubSpot partner, there's roughly a 0% chance that at some point they're gonna like change VP of something and they're gonna be like, we're done with HubSpot now we're on Salesforce. Right. Whereas that is true on the customer side, these sorts of shakeups do happen occasionally.
Well, very true. And I think really important to say. I wish I knew the exact number. I will guesstimate that something like 80 to 90% of HubSpot admins who are customer side got there through partners.
Oh, right.
The partner partner is how you get to that point in your career. Right. You joined a partner, you learned, you went from rudimentary and like academic understanding of HubSpot to that mid career point that I talked about. Like I've impacted business metrics with these tools. I did it for years. That's the thing that gets you the job in many, many, many cases at the customer. The other option is you go up to the ops track within a customer.
Yeah.
But lots and lots of the admins that we end up placing within our HubSpot customer clients are coming from the partner ecosystem.
That's good to know. This may be our last question. I'm going to combine two together because they're very closely related. Carrie asks, how does fully remote work impact These numbers up or down. And Karina asks, is there more demand for on site roles or remote?
Okay, so remote doesn't impact the numbers at all. In my, this is a, my opinion thing. I still have conversations with companies that try to, try to claim that they should be paying less in lower cost of living locations, which I think is insanity. Where you live. Where you live is irrelevant because I don't care if you live in the lowest cost of lowest cost living place in the country. You can still compete for jobs in Boston and New York and Miami and Seattle. So that, that doesn't matter. So I think it's. And we don't really see that that much anymore. That was much more of like a right after Covid thing or during COVID thing. So your location shouldn't dictate your salary, your skill should. What was the other part of the question?
Is there more demand for on site or remote?
Still remote. It has, it has come back sharply. I mean, in Covid we were, I mean everything we did during COVID was remote. We're something like 70, 30 now.
70% remote.
70% remote. 30%. And the 30% is mostly some flavor of hybrid. Very rarely do we talk to companies that are like, must be button the seat, must be in the office five days a week from eight to five. Like that. That has largely died.
Yeah.
Cool. I mean we do, we do still see it, but most of it is, look, we have an office space. We bought this building. We want to leverage it. We love the team atmosphere. We need people local ish who can be here a couple days a week.
Yeah, that makes sense. All right, well we are just about at time. I would love before we hop out for you to let people know the best way to get in touch with you. If they are, they're interested in continuing the conversation.
Fantastic. Email me adjacent hubsearch. Reach out to me at any time on LinkedIn. I'm more than happy to have follow ons to these conversations. Definitely get the salary guide and please, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Amazing. Jason, thanks so much for being here. Thank you all for being here. Good big group here today, very active. I'll make sure to export out your chat and questions to Jason so he has those. But yeah, I think we're gonna call it here. Thanks everyone. Go enjoy your Tuesday and hope to see you all back.
Thanks everyone. Thank you.
Bye guys.
Thank you.
See you next.
