What Does It Mean to Be Humble, Really? #humble

Humility is about having a realistic view of yourself, which, by the way, when I say that, that means if you're a stinker, then you're a stinker. But if you're not, which I know if you're listening to this, you're probably not, then have that realistic view versus the view that your internal, worst enemy might be having of you. To me, it means acknowledging your talents and accomplishments, but it also means recognizing that you're not perfect and that there's always room for growth. When you're humble, you understand that your successes often come with the help of others and that you can learn from everyone around you. At the same time, I think with humility, it's important to recognize your own worth and achievements along the way. This, again, is not about bragging. It's not about being arrogant. It's about having confidence in your abilities and being proud of the hard work and dedication that led to the successes in your life.

Welcome to Beyond. You'd default. I am your host, Liz Morehead, and as always, I am joined by the one, the only, George B. Thomas. How are you?

I'm doing great. There probably should only be one of me. Like, I don't know if the planet or my family could handle more than one. So we're coming back off of a. A long weekend, fourth of July weekend, and I feel rejuvenated. I feel ready to rock and roll. So all is good.

Well, let's dig in. What are your highlights and low lights from the weekend?

I get tired of constantly battling how much I should be working versus how much I should be relaxing on days that a world has dictated should be for relaxation. But that doesn't necessarily mean just because we've been told we should. But so mentally, it was a battle. Like, I literally was trying to spend time with family. I was trying to spend time on the business, I was trying to spend some time with myself. And, like, I wish I didn't have such a mental battle when it comes to that thing right there. Now, the highlight. Highlights easy. The highlight is I stepped on the scale and we are £30 down, which is amazing and fun. And again, it's been more of what I have been allowing to go into my mouth as far as food and beverage, have been doing a little exercise, but nothing to write home about. And the other piece of this, though, is if I do a highlight is that my new walking treadmill with an actual, like, desktop piece showed up this weekend, and I was able to put that together. So now I'm really interested in the change in lifestyle, AKA I did not say diet, but the change in lifestyle and now adding in this new walking treadmill to the work day. I'm really curious what's going to happen moving forward. So, Liz, what about you? Highlights in low lights.

Well, first I have to say congratulations. That is freaking incredible. And I love that you pointed out that it was lifestyle versus diet, because I've, you know, I've started seeing massive results. The moment I stopped being numbers obsessed with the moment I stopped trying to say, like, oh, I'm going to get from point A to point B. And it's just, nope, My life is changing now, and my body will adapt to the changes that I am making around it. So that is freaking amazing. Go you.

Thank you.

Low light. It was an interesting weekend. I didn't have my usual struggle of should I be working, should I not be working? I felt like I had a really good balance. There are just some external factors right now where it's weighing on my mind, and it's those things of, you know, how do I walk that line between careful planning and doomsday anxiety in my head?

Oh, oh, I hear you.

Yeah. And so that this week is, you know, it's like, okay, so I need a plan A, I need a plan B, I need a plan C. But if we start dipping into plan B and plan C, and then it's like, okay, hold on, wait, wait. So it's really just kind of learning how to regulate myself and find that line between, okay, we're here. Let's make a plan. Step one isn't panic.

Yeah, it's funny. We both chosen to be, you know, business owners, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, whatever you want to call it. And it's funny because that life comes with some great freedoms, some great responsibilities, but the occasional panic attack, potentially.

Panic. Oh, yeah, I know. Talking with a friend of mine this weekend who she also runs her own business, and we were having the same conversation. We have those moments of, hey, remember when someone else used to take care of our health insurance for us? Those. So nice. Yeah, it was so nice.

I'm sure most entrepreneurs or business owners who have listened or are listening this podcast have had moments in their careers, in their business life where they've had $2,000, $200,000, and $2 in their bank account, which you feel completely different ways based on what that number shows.

And it can change overnight. That's what's insane about it.

It's crazy. Keeps us humble. By the way, we're going to get.

To that and then my highlight is actually something I'm going to be writing about in this week's newsletter, beyond your default.com newsletter. So I'm staying with a friend this weekend, and we had this moment where we're in her new house and we had 18 people here, including 10 kids.

Oh, wow.

We had 80s music blasting. We were singing Nothing's Going to Stop Us now by Starship, the best Pitbull could offer. I was making stuffed shells for almost 20 people. And she and I have been kind of going through a similar trajectory. We have some unfortunate overlap in some of the experiences we've had in terms of, you know, we've both been going through a divorce. There are similar themes that were present in that divorce. You know, there's been a lot of times where she and I were reflecting that, you know, this time last year, we were both in our cars in parking lots, trying to, like, keep our head together, and each taking turns telling each other, we. We can do this. We can. We can get through this. It's going to be okay, even though it doesn't feel like it. And then when we were flashing forward to being here in her house, in her kitchen, and everybody was dancing, there was this moment of, oh, so even if you can't see the other side, there is another side, and it will just happen like that. I mean, there is nothing to describe what that felt like. Do I still have some other hinky stuff that. That I was talking about in my low light? Yeah, but it was that moment of, like, just because you can't visualize on the other side doesn't mean it's not there.

Oh, that's good. It's always there. You just have to arrive at it.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. But we're not here to talk about that. We're here to talk about humility. George. And I'm very excited to have this conversation with you today for two reasons. One, this is a continued conversation from our superhuman framework. You know, humility is one of the tent poles that you mentioned. Part of this way of achieving that beyond your default life. Right. But I'm excited because unlike the self care episode where after you read the outline, you said, so are we sure this is what we want to be talking about for the first time in the history of forever? And this is not saying you don't love my outlines. I got a. Oh, this is gonna.

Be a good one. I do love your outlines, by the way, but this one in particular, I was like, oh, okay.

I went there with some of my questions. And that's fine. What personally, why I am very interested in having this conversation is you have always, in addition to this being part of the superhuman framework, you've always called yourself the happy, helpful, humble human. Yeah, humble has. And humility has always been part of this brand that you've put forward. And going through, I would say the past few weeks, through our conversations and just life experience, I started to realize that for over a year or so that we've been working together, I think I was looking at humility the wrong way because my goal in terms of being your quote unquote content therapist was that I had spent a lot of time trying to get you to come out of your shell, to own your power, to step into the light instead of sidelining yourself as a number two. So I was always worried. Is that humility piece, is that humbleness piece something that hamstrings you? Is it something that you're saying, I'm being humble, but you're actually putting yourself in second chair for no reason.

Right.

And then last week in the newsletter I wrote about humility because I had, I've had a few experiences, I would say over the past couple of months that have really pushed me to redefine how I look at humility. Because one of the things I've been really trying to do over the past I would say year or so is kind of a reckoning within, right? If I became someone who could make all of these fear based decisions that then created this life that was just a prison, what was I doing? My heart wasn't open and I wasn't allowing myself to be open hearted. And so I want to read just a little portion from the newsletter issue I sent over the weekend. I was basically talking about, you know, I am sitting here railing at you guys once or twice a week, like do this, do that, be honest, tell me what you want, da da da da. But I'm not being honest with any of you. So I'm going to take a moment and I'm going to be honest about what I'm feeling. You don't experience great love. You are humbled by great love. You don't experience inspiration. You are humbled by inspiration. You don't experience pure joy. You are humbled by pure joy. You don't experience the divine. You are humbled by divine humility. Surrender and relinquishing your need for control. These are your only tools to bring what you want within reach. You must let go of your expectations and demands and requirements in order to receive you see when what you want shows up and knocks up on your door. It does so with the demand of an absolute acceptance for what it is, as it is. You get no say over its size, its shape, its form, its timeline, its breadth, its depth, its scale. You want true love and blinding passion? Here it is. You want to find inspiration in the revealing of your purpose. Here it is. You want answers to the deepest questions in your heart. Here they are. It's like a final test of sorts. Do you really want what you say you want? Are you willing to be humbled and humble yourself by what it is you seek? And so I have been going through this whole process of understanding what humility, at least so far, actually is for me. But as I've been going through this shift in my perspective, I knew this was the time we had to have this conversation. Because since it is such a critical part of the superhuman framework, and since I'm likely not the only one who maybe has not appropriately defined it in the past, do we all have a shared definition of what it means to be humble?

I mean, maybe, maybe not. To be honest with you, for most people, I don't know if it's a major focus in their life. For me, this has been a 26 to 28 year journey of focusing on understanding, implementing this idea of staying humble, paying attention to ego, understanding the difference between proud and pride. So I don't know if we have a defined definition, to be honest with you, because it might not even be in some people's game.

Well, then let's talk about it. Let's start our conversation here. George, how do you define humility?

Yeah, for me, humility is this blend of religious beliefs and the psychological ideas that help us grow as humans. Liz, on the religious side, humility means recognizing, recognizing that we depend, we depend on a higher power. And understanding that we as humans have limitations depend on something. Humans have limitations. An easy example in Christianity, religion, for example, Jesus is a great example of humility because he served others selfishly. The Bible tells us to be humble towards each other, acknowledging that God favors the humble and opposes the proud. I've had to battle with pride in my younger life to the point where it broke me. But Liz, we'll chat about that in a bit. Religiously, humility means submitting to God or a higher power that you believe in and understanding that your talents, my talents, your successes, my successes are gifts from this higher power or the God that we believe in. It also involves serving others and putting their needs above our own. So right away, I want people to realize this is kind of like multifaceted and it's not super simple because by the way, right now I'm just talking about serving and I'm talking about the religious side of this, but there's far more that we have to dive into. This is why servanthood, by the way for me is so important in my life and how I show up for those around me, because it's rooted out of humility. Being humble means knowing our flaws and always striving to improve ourselves both spiritually and personally. Now on the other side of this, psychologically, humility is about having a clear understanding of our strengths and weaknesses without being arrogant about it or self deprecating. On the other side, if you're in tune from the spiritual side of humility, by the way, this part, the psychological part, is super easy or at least easier. To me, true humility involves having balanced self esteem where we don't think too highly or too lowly of ourselves. In this sense, humility includes self awareness, recognition of our abilities and limitations, and an openness to feedback and new ideas so that we can grow over time. Liz, I don't know about you, but that part right there feels like the bedrock for another topic that we've talked about on this podcast, which is growth mindset. But again, we'll hit that point a little bit later. Good humility. And I say that on purpose because you spent a lot of time trying to get me to show up as a whole ass human and in the effort of wondering and you even said at the beginning of this, is humility holding him back? Because by the way, and it might have been a little because I used to say a lot, I'm just a guy, but that was my knee jerk response to like trigger the deflation of the air in my cranium, AKA my ego. Again, it's a balance. But good humility also means that we're being empathetic and compassionate, understanding and caring about others perspectives and feelings. Again, this humility unlock in my life has made empathy a major focus on my journey through this life. So you have to think out of this conversation of humility and what it is. It's directly tied to the servanthood mindset that I have and the empathetic mindset that I have as well as a growth mindset is essential. Where we see challenges and failures, where most see challenges and failures, we need to see them as opportunities to learn and grow. So if we combine both religious and psychological views, I would define humility as having a balanced and honest sense of yourself. I like some quotes, by the way, as always, there's some quotes and some scriptures sprinkled through this episode.

We love a good sprinkle.

We do. And I love the quote scripture. One, two, punch. Actually like getting both sides of kind of the stream, if you will. So Confucius wisely said, humility is the solid foundation of all virtues. It's about recognizing our abilities and limits depending on a higher power, and committing to serve others. By the way, that could probably be the dang definition, but the Bible supports this, stating, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. And that's Matthew 5:3, ladies and gentlemen. Humility helps us grow continuously. It helps us develop empathy and it helps us deepen our spirituality along the way. And it promotes well being and encourages lifelong learning and self improvement. Now, I don't know about you, but that sounds like a recipe to success for me.

I love the way you framed it, but I do want to take a step back here and say some of the things that you were pointing to is more religious aspects. There are things though that I hear echoes of in either more secular, agnostic or even atheistic circles. This level of humility that even if it's not rooted in some sort of spiritual set of beliefs, there's still that idea of there is something greater.

Right?

Carl Sagan, who is an author, an astronomer, a philosopher, also famously atheistic, he said once, modern science has been a voyage into the unknown with a lesson in humility waiting at every step. When we look at the world around us, I think it is always important for us, regardless, again, as to the belief structure it's rooted in to recall, is there something outside of ourselves? Is there something greater than ourselves? Are there rules and larger forces at play? And the answer is yes, regardless as to what it is you believe. So let's keep going though, because I want to go back to a piece of the conversation we had when we were introducing the superhuman framework. And when you talked about humility, you said that God had to break you to teach you humility. Nice try trying to sneak that one in. Like I wasn't going to come back here a few episodes later and say, so, sir, what were you talking about? Because that's what I want to know. Tell us about that experience and how it changed your perspective on humility.

What happened at that time? I was living in Jewett, Ohio. I was working at a camp called Faith ranch. We had 4,200 acres. We would do horseback riding, we would have camps. I was a Camp counselor. During that time, I was also, like, an archery instructor, rappelling instructor, certified lifeguard. A little unknown fact about me is I'm actually a certified riding instructor. Western and English, which is crazy. Listen, your boy used to be a cowboy. I'm just saying I watched Yellowstone, and it reminds me of my past. It's not like this fictional thing.

You one time sent me a picture of you in a cowboy hat. I'm like, he looks very, very at.

Home in that hat. Yeah, I was very comfortable in the cowboy hat. And so to make a long story short, I had worked at the camp for about two years. I ended up working at the camp for. For three in total before I moved on with life. And at this camp, we worked it like a farm year round. But then we had kids camps, you know, during the summer. I got room and board, and I made a hundred dollars a month, Liz. A hundred dollars a month is what we got paid. And I had been saving up my money, and there was this, I think it was 5 or 600cc Honda motorcycle showed up. Somebody had came, they were gonna sell it. I was like, I want to buy it. The camp director, Bill, he said, I don't think that's a good idea. And listen, I had saved up money. I didn't really need a lot, but we were making 100 bucks a month. And so I think I paid like 7 or 800 bucks for this motorcycle. You know, I didn't heed any warning. I was very like, I don't care what you say. I'm going to do what I want to do. Be careful, by the way, when your brain does that to you right there. And so I bought the motorcycle. And it's one of the weekends in between camp finishing and starting again. And some friends of mine that worked at the camp, we decided we were going to go into Jewett and we were going to play some basketball. So I hopped on the motorcycle, took off and, like, headed into town. They were in a. I think it was like a gold station wagon following me. We get there, we play some hoops. You know, we have maybe a couple Mountain Dews and Cokes and whatever. And we're heading back to the camp. And I decide that it would be a good idea for me to show off. And I start going kind of fast, you know. And by the way, if you know anything about Ohio, you know, the roads are windy. I'm wearing a pair of shorts because we're playing basketball. I have a leather jacket on because I'm not an idiot. And I have my helmet on. Thank God, because it probably saved my life. I was going about 80 miles an hour. I was going around this turn. A possum. God, I hate possums. Opossum. Came walking out in the road. I tried to dip out and dip back into the turn, but my front tire caught gravel instead of the asphalt. I remember trying to lean off of my bike because I knew it was going way wrong. And so I remember leaning off the bike, and then I remember waking up and standing up and telling them to get my helmet off. Like, I couldn't get my helmet off. I didn't know why I couldn't get my helmet off, but I couldn't get my helmet off. And they're like, we can't take your helmet off. You might have a neck injury. And I'm like, I wouldn't be standing if I had a neck injury. Like, take my helmet off. Because I was getting very claustrophobic. It was a full face helmet. It was full of dirt. I just. I needed to see. I needed some air. So they took my helmet off. And at that point, the first responder showed up. Pickup truck. Because we were out in the country, he sits me on the back of the truck. I see the ambulance kind of coming towards us. I must have blacked out, because the next thing I remember coming to. I'm in the ambulance, and I look up, and there's this lady. She's a larger lady. She's definitely an older lady compared to me at that point, because I'm probably, like, 26, 27, maybe even 25 at that point in my life. But I asked her to marry me, and she kind of giggles. And then I pass out again. I come to in the hospital just in time for the doctor to re. Break my wrist that I didn't realize was broken, but they had to rebreak it and set it. And so come to find out, one, I had a dislocated shoulder that was on my left side. I had a broken wrist that was on my right side. And I had stitches in my knee because gravel and asphalt and knees don't really mix. I get done with all of this, and I'm sitting there in the bed, and sitting next to me is Bill, the camp director. And I'm waiting for it. I'm waiting for the I told you so. I'm waiting for the lecture of all lectures, because he was almost like a third dad to me, to be honest with you. Like, he was. He was one of my first, what I would call life mentors. And you know what? He just humbly sat there and didn't say anything. And he took me back to the camp and he, like, made sure that I was okay. And so there was this sign of how not to be and how to be when somebody is actually in a place in their life where they don't want to be. Come to find out too. The next day, I get to see the motorcycle and it's trashed. The gas tanks laying beside it, seats all mangled, the forks are all bent. Like it's gone. They're like, there's no salvaging it. And my friends start telling me the story about how when I went off the road, they saw the bike do six flips. And you could literally, when you went back to where we were driving, you could see six indentions where the bike had flipped. They found the gas tank like 150 yards on the other side of the road. And so all of this just created this moment for me where I was like, oh my God, I'm. I'm glad to be alive. Then this happened, which for a brief moment in time, I was like, oh, God, just let me die right now. This is embarrassing. It was the Monday or Tuesday camper showed up. I realized that I had to go to the bathroom. So I went from like this downstairs area where we're sitting on picnic tables. I went in the bathroom to use the bathroom. And then at 25, 26 years old, I realized I can't pull my pants up. And so I had to yell out of the bathroom, help. Somebody help me. And Chuck, I'll never forget Chuck's name. Chuck came in and he's like, what's up? And I said, I probably. I can't pull my pants up. So he pulled my pants up and he said, you okay? And I said, yeah, I'm okay. And I shut the door as he left and I sat down on the seat of the toilet and I started bawling my eyes out. Because I realized at that point, for God to get my attention, he had to break me. It was because that I wasn't paying attention to good advice. It was because I was letting ego get in the way. It was because I wasn't focused on being a humble human that I had arrived at this place. And so because of that, when I start to think about, you know, this story in my life and what happened because of it, humility for me, like I kind of teased at the beginning of this, went from a non existent to a major focus in my life. And because of this major focus on humility, I became less focused on myself and became more focused on others. And I think this is where my fascination and just deep dive into like body language and micro expressions and like feeling people's emotions in the room when I walk into it as like a professional speaker. And I definitely started to go down at that point, this journey of understanding proud versus pride and the difference that they play in our mind and how we treat them. And I tried to start walk. This is going to sound weird to maybe a lot of folks, but it was at that point, and by the way, like anything in life, you can backslide and then go back into it and backslide and go back into it. But it was at that point really that I tried to start to walk the world with a lighter touch versus this. What up until that point had very much been like a bull in the china closet. Like, I'm gonna show up. I'm on me, me. I'm gonna wreck whatever's, you know. And I was like, ah, maybe that's not just the way to show up. That's the moment in time. And again, it's been, you know, what, 27, 28 years now, focused on staying humble, deflating the ego, focusing on others, being wise and listening. That's kind of what that's about.

There's so many elements of that story that I want our listeners to take with them because on its surface, you know, that is not a story I can relate to. I will tell you one thing. I will never get on a motorcycle. Do you want to know why? I. I don't even know how to ride a bike, George. I have made peace with that. God, a long time ago. I grew up in an apartment building across from the Pentagon. Biking was not in my, like, that was never going to be in my repertoire. Right. So I think sometimes we can hear these stories from other people that maybe seem either out of our reach or at an extreme end of a spectrum where we can hear the story, hear the lesson, understand the lesson, but we don't necessarily personalize it. So when our listeners who are, well, listening right now, what I want you to take from that story is that we all have those moments where the world, God, the universe says stop.

Yep.

Where you go one day having a certain capability to the next day, either temporarily or permanently, not having it to the moment where you are feeling independent, to the next day where you need to ask for help.

Yeah.

I was having this conversation with a friend of mine yesterday in the car. We were driving over to a friend's house. And I told her about how there is someone in my life whom I'm very close with, who I know sees me in this. I don't know if it's an ideal, an idealized light or they just, they always see the best in me. And I said, it's really hard for me because every time this person says something nice about me or they talk about me or my accomplishments, whether that's to me or somebody else, I can't help this feeling of fraudulence, because the way I said, I'm like, I know I look like I have it together, but I'm basically 10 gerbils, like, tied together in a trench coat. We were talking earlier, let's not talk about the bank account right now, guys. Let. This is. We are just getting through the days right now. You know what I mean? We are just making this work. And so it's so funny that it was that contrast of I am feeling humbled right now contrasted with someone who sees me in this very idealized way. And it's almost painful. And I think these moments of humility, we have to remember we are not being punished. We're all humans just trying to make it work, guys. And sometimes we get a little bit big for our britches, sometimes we shoot out a little bit over our skis, and sometimes there are just going to be things that happen that are outside of our control.

Yep.

My lesson in humility, I'm going to go in a bit of a different track because I have plenty of stories that have echoes of yours, Right. Like, have I Fallen down? Yes. I fall down more than I write words. And I'm a professional writer. Me and gravity. It's always a delicate dance. Right. I'll go back to something I mentioned in the newsletter, because if you are going to get raw and real and honest, I am going to do the same. And this is something I've been continuing to challenge myself week to week, and this was not something I was planning on talking about. So I wrote last week about, you are not. You don't experience a great love. You are humbled by it. I have probably gone through one of the most excruciating lessons in love that I have ever experienced in my whole life over the past year, like, to the point where I didn't even admit it out loud until I told a friend this past weekend. And, you know, she was incredibly gracious. She was holding space for me as I was working through some very complex feelings. And the reason why I call this a lesson in humility is that. Look, I'll be honest. Your girl Liz, ladies and gentlemen, I'm an only child of only children. I like me. I like winning. I like to joke. I don't need to be the best. I just need to be better than everybody else. My first word was no. And that's not some cute, quippy joke. I thought. My mom told me that once. And I'm like, that doesn't. Are you just mad that I took apart my crib? But my dad was like, no, no, you were Elizabeth, right from day one. So I've always considered myself ethical and honest, but I mention those things because I've always been strategic, the right side of clever, not afraid to put myself in a position to win. This love lesson that I've experienced, which is an unrequited sort, taught me that when you really love someone, you are not in the picture because you want them to experience happiness and love on their terms, however they define it, whatever they define it as, and with whomever they define it as. And it's been this interesting experience of. Because this true great love exists is the exact reason why I will never, ever dip into that only child mentality. It was to truly be humbled by it. And it was a beautiful thing. And it's painful. It's painful. 0 out of 5 stars. But it has been probably the most humbling lesson I have experienced out of a lot of humbling lessons I've had this year. And I share that because, again, I've been really going through my own journey as we've been recording these. And that. Whoa. Tells me that I went a little deeper than I usually go.

But I love it.

I'm very glad I learned it, because humility comes in all stripes. It's not just the times you get knocked down. Sometimes it's a thing that shows up on your doorstep and you asked for it, and now you have to bring it in and accept what it's here to teach you. And that's what it's meant to do. So what daily practices or habits help you stay grounded and humbled? Because obviously, you and I both have had these big experiences, right? But it's like going to a conference. Like, we talk about this a lot. You go when you go to the inbound marketing conference. Inbound by HubSpot.

Yeah.

You go there, you're excited, you got notes, you saw all these keynotes. You're ready to change the world. And, like, within two weeks, when you're back at your office, you're already doing the same old you were doing before, right? Like you're already like, I'm just gonna do the way it was before, because nobody would listen and nobody was there and. Right. So how do you take those big catalyst moments in your life in humility and translate them into those daily practices and habits that keep that lesson going, that keep it integrated into your life?

I'd love to say that they are daily practices or daily habits. Many times I may do them daily, I may skip them for a week or two, and then they become daily habits. But there is a set of things that I'll list under daily practices and habits that have helped me stay grounded and humble along the way. Maybe it's just routines that I think anyone can adopt and maybe the pace at which the routine you choose or set of these pieces that you turn into a routine. Anyway, the first thing that I try to start each day with, and again, I'm gonna say the word try a lot over the next couple minutes because these are goals, these are aspirations, these are things that, again, I try to keep in place. But starting each day with gratitude, before I let the day take over, I take a few minutes to reflect on the things that I'm thankful for, which helps me appreciate what I have and recognize the contributions of others in my life. And again, this one right here, this becomes even more important when you feel like you're in one of those catalyst moments or when you're in one of the more stressful parts of your journey. Focusing in on gratitude, especially at the beginning of your day, might be the oxygen that you need to actually continue to move forward. The second thing that I'm a huge fan of and I try to do, notice the word try again is active listening. Whether it's at work or with family and friends, I try to make a conscious effort to listen more and talk less. And as somebody who has to talk to people, that's hard to do. Meaning, I got to do a lot of training and, you know, this podcast and other podcasts, and so I do talk a lot. But when I'm in those one to one moments in life or one, two group, I really do try to listen more and talk less again. Sometimes I completely fail at this one, but when it works, when it works right, this helps me understand others better and helps me keep my ego in check. See, that's the thing. If you're listening to the input around you, it kind of can become a mirror. And this even ties into, like, listening and even feedback and listening. The other thing, too, that I have embraced, I would say we both have embraced. Liz is this mindset of continuous learning. For me, it's been in my later years. And so those listening, if you have not yet, you can. I mean, I listen to audiobooks, podcasts, I take courses, I read blogs, I seek out new knowledge at every turn possible. And by the way, I don't always do this in the my lane. And I'm using air quotes for anybody who's listening here. I don't always do it in my lane per se. I. I allow myself maybe get your notepad ready listeners, by the way, because I feel like this one might be unlocking for some folks. I allow myself to learn random things of curiosity. Random things of curiosity can actually give you a ton of power as you move forward. But this idea of learning and curiosity, it reminds me that there's always more to learn and that I don't have all the answers. And when you realize you don't have all the answers, by the way, I might be able to find them, but I don't have them. There's a level that, that allows you to stay at. I also try to make it a habit to admit my mistakes. This one might be one of the hardest in the bunch, by the way.

I do feel confusion about that.

I don't get excited about this one, but I do try to like, admit when I'm wrong. Like when I mess up, I try to own it and apologize if necessary. In your personal life, this is a just a win for everybody. Professionally, it's like next level stuff that your clients probably aren't used to. But. But this idea keeps me honest and accountable and it shows others that it's okay to make mistakes. Which by the way, if you're a leader and you want your team to embrace this mindset, then you have to lead with this mindset. Finally, what I'll talk about is I reflect on my day before I go to bed. Honestly, I'll sit there and I'll think about what went well, what could I improve? How did I treat others? And I'll sit there and dissect the day that I just had. And I guess you could call it this moment of reflection, right? You're reflecting on the main points of contact and conversation and community. And when I do this, this helps me stay focused on my personal growth throughout that day. Remember, I talk about 1% better each and every day. This is like the diagnosis of where was that 1%? And. And honestly, looking back at what happened in that day, the amount of value that I added or didn't add or the conversations that I had or should have had. Like, it keeps me very grounded. You've got to be open to looking at the bloopers of your life, not just the highlight reel. And so many of us just want to look at the highlight reel, which gives us a skewed perspective by adding in these simple practices into your daily routine. Your. Your daily life, weekly routine. If it's better for you, I mean, it's helped me. It may help you stay humble and grounded and focus on continually growing and improving. And again, this is why I have that statement and people have heard me say it in life and on this podcast. And humility is tied to the statement 1% better each and every day. There's a couple quotes in Scripture, Liz. Marcus Tullius Cicero remarked, the higher we are placed, the more humbly we should walk. By the way, this quote scares the crap out of me because as a person who is trying to live a life beyond their default, as a person who is trying to climb the highest of mountains, as the person who now has George B. Thomas for speaking and emceeing, sidekick strategies for agency services, and beyond your default for helping people grow. Personally, I'm headed to high places. I've been focused on being humble, but you telling me I gotta double down, there's a lot more work to do is what I'm saying there. And so the Bible echoes this sentiment, though, of this quote urging us to humble ourselves. It actually says, humble yourselves before the Lord and he will lift you up. James 4:10. It sounds great, but it's a lot of daily, weekly actions, habits, focus. It's a great direction to go. It's a hard journey to navigate.

There are two things I want to point out there, that I just, I. I loved what you said. I loved all of that. And also, I don't know if anybody else listening to this just had that moment, felt that one right in my bones. But I will say one thing I find fascinating about those moments where when you were starting to talk about, you know, when I have to admit, I effed up. Right? The thing that actually helps me in those moments is a reminder that less is more. Usually where you get in trouble with those big apologies. Whether you're talking about personal apologies or apologies to a client, you just, I fucked up. Period. Full stop. And you'd be surprised. The ability of apologizing without editorializing is usually what people are looking for. They're not looking for some essay or monologue from you. You know, it was a Tuesday. It all began when I was 10 and I showed an aptitude for the clarinet. Like, nobody wants that.

No.

Because sometimes that's really all I screwed up. The end.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Yeah. It might sound like, my bad. It might sound like, wow, I could have handled that better.

Like, you and I have done that to each other, where it's like, so, Liz. So George. Oops.

A big dumb. It again, sorry.

The other thing I want to point out is you mentioned something about highlight reels. And I think, especially in an age of social media, it becomes even more important. I think everybody listening should take comfort in the fact that if anybody were to get strategic enough, we all have highlight reels. Everything always looks glossy on the surface. We all have highlight reels and we all have blooper reels. I was talking with someone over the weekend, one of our clients, actually, someone who has started their own business, and she's feeling a bit nervous because she doesn't have as much experience in the industry as other people do. But she has been a business owner for many years. She's bringing in new perspectives. And I talked to her about the fact that, you know, you don't have to have it all figured out. In fact, I'm going to send you the first video I ever did for a company named Impact that I used to work at. It is terrible. It should be buried within the sands of time. George, I will send it to you. It is probably the funniest thing I have ever done. You would look at it and say, nobody would let this girl in front of a camera again. And that is true. But the problem was, it was the pandemic. So we had no one else. So Liz had to learn. And you know this. You do a ton of camera work. Me, you, our mutual friend Marcus Sheridan, all of these people who people get used to seeing on stage and seeing in a glossy way. Do you know how many bloopers I have as a joke? One time, my old Eddie video producer put together a blooper reel that can never actually be shown publicly. That's just me saying the F word a bunch of ways. And they put it like, it's a super cut. And there's like, I'm singing it. It's this. It's. It's like a two and a half minute long thing. And that was when I was at my prime. That was when I was like, I was doing great prompter work. I was being much more creative. This is part of the human experience. This is part of what we do. You do not show up ready to wrestle with no issues. Like, this is. This is part of the thing. So I want to dig into a nuance here when it comes to humility, because this is where I think I used to get tripped up with it. Right? Because anytime you said the word humble, I was like, I wanted to zap you. And you had a point. You kept trying to tell me that's not what it. Yeah.

I'm like, why does she have the cattle prod right now? I just am talking about humility.

Liz. I thought we were friends. Why is this violent? You know, but you kept trying to say that's not quite what it means. But we'll get to that later. It's now, later. We. We have arrived at that station.

Yeah.

What is the balance between being humble and recognizing your own worth and achievements? Right. That fine line that I was talking about, like where you're weaponizing humility against yourself to keep you in a box.

First of all, I don't think it should be humanized. And, and the way that I'm going to unpack this, I mean, these are my words, my thinking of, you know, the conversation. There might be a PhD, doctorate, whatever, that would maybe go deeper than this. And who knows, maybe in the future we'll try to interview somebody that's way smarter than me on this topic of humility and the idea of self worth and it being empowering versus weaponized. But to me, balancing humility with recognizing your own worth and achievements involves this understanding and appreciating of your own strengths and limitations without letting either overshadow the other. The word balance comes to mind, like when I think about answering this question, Liz. And where my brain goes is literally to like the yin Yang sign and balanced and it being kind of the both sides evenly weighted out. And so humility is about having a realistic view of yourself. Which, by the way, when I say that, that means if, if you're a stinker, then you're a stinker. But if you're not, which I know if you're listening to this, you're probably not, then have that realistic view versus the view that your internal worst enemy might be having of you. To me, it means acknowledging your talents and accomplishments, but it also means recognizing that you're not perfect and that there's always room for growth. When you're humble, you understand that your successes often come with the help of others and that you can learn from everyone around you. Liz, you've heard me jokingly say, when we're working with clients, like, can I Talk to the janitor. Now, do I really want to talk to the janitor? No. But my point there is I'll talk to anybody in the organization because everybody has a viewpoint, and the more of those that I can get, the better. At the same time, I think with humility, it's important to recognize your own worth and achievements along the way. This, again, is not about bragging. It's not about being arrogant. It's about having confidence in your abilities and being proud of the hard work and dedication that led to the successes in your life. It took me a long time, by the way, to realize I could be proud of myself without being prideful. Now, listeners, I want you to unpack that first for a second. You can be proud of yourself without being prideful. Recognizing your worth actually can build self esteem. That's why I think humility can be a superpower, because it'll motivate you to continue striving for the goals that you're going to set as you move forward in life. The key, and going back to the word balance, the key to balancing these two aspects, at least for me, is to keep yourself grounded. Right? So when I say grounded, like, what do I mean? And how can we do that? Like, have you ever met somebody who they just absorb all of the. Yep, look what I did. Look what I. I did this. When you're more grounded, when you're focused on humility, you're more apt to give credit where credit is due. When you achieve something, acknowledge the contributions of the thing that you put in, by the way, and the contributions of others who helped you get there along the way. That's why in Hub Heroes podcast and this podcast, we both have given credit to things that humans have said that got us to a next level, right? Like, I'm sure we've told the story of sitting in Cheesecake Factory with Marcus Sheridan and the fact that if I didn't embrace vulnerability, by the way, you can go back to that episode because I literally know that we have a vulnerability episode, which you loved doing just.

As much as self care as I recall.

Yeah, it was big fan, big fan. I was a big fan of it. You have to shine the light on others along the way. This keeps us humble, shows appreciation for teamwork, and more importantly, like fosters a community, family, group of friends, whatever you call it, that is focused on support of others. So celebrate your achievements. That's another thing. Like, it's okay to be proud of your success or successes, freaking take time to celebrate them. I was terrible at this by the way, because I was always worried that they would define me. Celebrate them, but don't let them define you. Understand that they're part of a larger journey of learning and continuous improvement that you're going to be going through. Now, Liz, I mentioned this earlier, but practice gratitude again. This is one of the linchpins or key pieces. I feel like it's like the spider web piece of what connects so much of this. But regularly reflect on what you're thankful for, because this will help you appreciate your accomplishments without being boastful. Look that word up, write it in your notepad, and then write the immediate three things that come to mind about you, your life, after reading that. The other one is, and by the way, from somebody who's gone on a couple mission trips and we've done a couple food kitchens. If you're not finding ways to help others, which, by the way, I just picked out some big ones, but you can find some small ways to help others in your life, but use your skills and knowledge to assist others. This is why sometimes I'll just be like, hey, let me do that for you real quick when it comes to, like, the marketing or sales or like, HubSpot space, because there is a fine line of I need to get paid to do that thing versus I'm just going to use my skills to get somebody out of the ditch real quick and then they can move forward and they really don't need a whole lot of what I provide after that. But this idea of helping others not only benefits those around you, but also reinforces the idea that your abilities are meant to be shared and that your abilities can contribute to the greater good of just the world in general. And so, Liz, as C. S Lewis famously said, humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less. And the Bible also teaches us, do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, rather in humility. Value others above yourselves. And that's Philippians 2, 3. And so I think by maintaining this balance that we're talking about in this section, you can stay confident in your abilities while remaining humble in an understanding of that you're continually growing. And that the best part of this might be the fact that you've unlocked that you can learn almost anything from those around you in your life.

What I love about what you said here, George, is that, like everything that we've talked about in multiple episodes is that this is something you have to kind of recalibrate mentally with yourself over time.

Upgrade your software.

Yeah. And it's that fine line right between we talk a lot about frameworks, mindsets, best practices. That's how we structure out, whether we're talking about beyond your default or how we teach inbound, and how we talk about HubSpot with our clients. It's this idea that we have mindsets that inform flexible frameworks that inform daily best practices. It's the same thing that we see here in that we have a certain mindset, understanding that difference between proud and pride, understanding there are things outside of ourselves, but we can also still be proud of ourselves. We can still recognize ourselves and recognize our worth. But the reason why those are not rigid frameworks, mindsets that can never be broken or shifted is because we have to allow the human experience to mold and shape us as we move forward through these moments. What I would be curious to hear from you though, is what advice you would give to someone who is struggling with that ego piece of it right where they find it hard to practice humility. And I will be the first to admit that sometimes I fall into this trap. I'll get high on my own Kool Aid, get high on my own. Liz Supply when you get a lot of recognition about things or maybe just it's something you don't allow yourself to tap into, it could be a lot of reasons. But how do you talk to someone in that mindset?

First of all, we're, we're all really good at, like allowing ourselves to boo, you know, or I'm the gal, whoever you are. Like, listen, before my motorcycle accident, that was my default state. I was the shiz. I mean, listen, at the camp, right? I want everybody to think about this for a second before I answer your question. Liz at that camp, I was a certified riding instructor, certified rappelling instructor, certified archery instructor, certified lifeguard. I was the guy, at least in my own mind. And so that motorcycle accident was getting me off of my high horse because like you kind of jokingly said we were way too high on the George supply, right? And so for someone who is struggling with ego and you're finding it hard to practice humility, I'm going to give you some advice. But I'm also going to take a moment here to say, please take the advice because being broken to learn these lessons is way more difficult. I would just rather you learn these lessons and be able to implement them in your life. So one of the key things is that you gotta practice self reflection. Take time each day to reflect on the actions and attitudes that you're having and doing. I'm not a huge journaling person, but if you like to journal, journaling can help you identify moments when your ego took over. And that's where you want to look at what impact your interactions and decisions made or happened to that situation. Adding in this gives you a level of self awareness. And by the way, self awareness is the first step in managing your ego. If it goes untapped, unchecked, unnoticed, it's kind of like high blood pressure. It starts out normal and it just starts to bubble up to where it gets to the point where it's going to be a bad thing. The other thing, and this is going to be real difficult if you are friends with ego, if you are slightly egotistical, maybe at this point. But I'm going to tell you that it's been one of the most eye opening pieces for me and that is seek feedback from those around you. Now it has to be people you trust, but actively ask for feedback from trusted friends, family. If this is a work thing, maybe it's your colleagues, but when you ask for that feedback, be open to their perspectives and listen to what they're saying, even if and it's going to be uncomfortable. But when you are able to embrace this constructive criticism, again from people you trust, it can help you see the blind spots and areas where your ego might get in the way. And to be honest with you, before my motorcycle accent, I was like that horse with blinders on where I just saw straight ahead. I couldn't see to the left or right. And so you got to look for these blind spots and feedback and listening to those around you and then taking action and change based on the constructive criticism that you get in that uncomfortable moment or conversation is going to be key to get out of this like ego ruling your life. I mentioned this one earlier, but I definitely think it deserves repeating and especially after the last thing that I just talked about. But focus on listening. Make a conscious effort to listen more and talk less. Truly pay attention to what others are saying without planning your response. And again, too many times when we're just communicating to be right, we already know what we're going to say before they actually finish the sentence.

That's not communicating, that's lecturing.

Exactly. And so little practice in your life will help you appreciate the viewpoints of others and in its own small way will help you reduce your focus on yourself. By the way, when you start to reduce your focus on yourself, you can acknowledge others. And when I say acknowledge others, regularly express gratitude. Atta boys, atta girls, appreciation for Their contributions in your life, like, the amount of it just happens and nobody says anything is almost terrifying to me. We should be telling people, like, man, that was awesome, or you did a great job, or I appreciate you because of more in our lives. I say it's not a big shift, but it actually probably is a big shift. And it may feel huge to folks, but to me, I would say it's. It's actually a little shift because now with you not focusing on yourself, you're focusing on others, you can actually find it easier. But this shifts the spotlight from you to those around you. And again, it fosters a more collaborative environment, whether it be friends, family, or at work. And, Liz, we've talked about this, but I think if you're not humble, if you're dealing with ego in the driver's seat right now, and I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but you may have a closed mindset, and man or gal, that's dangerous. And so unlocking or embracing this idea of lifelong learning. And what I love to do is, and I've said this before, where it's like the master is always the student adopting a beginner's mindset. Remember that there's always more to learn and that everyone you meet knows something that you don't. And I have to ask you, like, do you walk this planet thinking that you're the smartest person in the room? You may be, by the way, but that doesn't mean you need to think, think that way or act that way. This humility in learning helps. And I think, by the way, this might be one of the reasons that I doubled down on, like, I'm going to learn everything that I can. I'm going to grab this sponge mentality is based off of this, because humility in learning helps keep that ego in check. Now, the last thing I'm going to mention here is that, and again, they're kind of layers. If you go back to this rewind, kind of start to jot it in your notepad, you'll realize that one begat the other, begat the other, begat the other. Because once you get to this point, you can start to focus on serving others. When you engage in activities that help others without expecting anything in return. Volunteering, random acts of kindness, these can ground you and remind you of the value of service and community. I think about the mission trips that I've been in, and when we went to Billings, Montana, and we did a mission trip at the Indian reservation master class in humility Master class in humility. Like when we've gone and worked at soup kitchens and I see my kids helping people and they're having the realization of the life that they have. Master class in humility. And you know what? Actually there's one I said that was the last thing, but there's one more thing that came to mind. I don't know if I was going to share it, but I think I should share it. And the reason I say I don't know if I was going to share it is because when I start to unpack this one, Liz, it's a real freaking doozy for me personally, because some people run from this. By the way, ladies and gentlemen, you have to remember your roots. You have to reflect on where you started and the journey that brought you to where you are. Recognize the support and opportunities that helped you along the way. It can foster a sense of humility to know that I've gone from one room log cabin to business owner. To know that I've gone from a one room schoolhouse to certified HubSpot trainer. To know that this massive change from just being a inbound zero to being an inbound hero. Heck, let's even go more recent to know that I've gone from not having any conversations in the personal growth space to us now doing episode 45 or 6. You gotta remember your roots along the way. Liz, you talked about your first video. The first video I ever did started out with a photo of me leaning against a brick wall with three HubSpot certifications and then had about a minute and a half screen share video where you just saw the screen and that was it. It was horrifying. But it's the roots. It's the roots that got us here. So you have to think about where you came from. You have to think about the journey that you're on the way that you're going to be able to expedite that journey, especially with like leaving ego and heading into humility, is making sure that you're setting personal goals focused on growth, learning, helping others rather than, and this is the young George, the accolades and recognition of the thing that I'm about to do. This shifts your motivation from self centered to service oriented. And remember, pride makes us artificial and humility makes us real. I'm going to say that again for the folks in the back row. Pride makes us artificial and humility makes us real. That's Thomas Merton, by the way. The Bible adds this. When pride comes, then comes disgrace. But with humility comes wisdom. I'll Take wisdom all day, every day. And that's Proverbs 11:2. I think by incorporating these practices into your daily life, your weekly life, your monthly life, you can begin to manage ego. And by the way, that's all I ever really try to do is can I just manage it? I'm not trying to kill it, but can I manage it? And when you're managing it, then you can cultivate a more humble, balanced perspective of the life that you're living.

So as we close in on the end of this conversation, I know we've touched upon this, but I think I just want to hear from you as we pull this all together. Why is humility essential for personal growth? Why is it essential for building these strong, specifically respectful relationships that we have?

I believe humility is essential for true personal growth and building strong respectful relationships for several reasons. First, humility fosters a mindset of continuous learning. When you're humble, you acknowledge that you don't know everything and that there's always room for improvement. Liz, this is huge. Like that piece alone is huge. This openness to new ideas and willingness to learn, like I talked about random acts of curiosity, this willingness to learn from others, it's crucial for our personal development. Being more receptive to feedback like we talked about earlier and new perspectives allows you to grow, adapt, and improve over time. It gives you this open mindset instead of closed mindset. With an open mindset, you can head into a growth mindset. Humility helps you build stronger, more respectful relationships. I. I think that if you ask any human, they want stronger and more respectful relationships. Approaching others with humility instead of ego increases your ability to listen actively and value their contributions. This creates a foundation of mutual respect and trust as people feel heard and appreciated. I mean, this is going to be a hard question, but when's the last time you felt heard, appreciated, or maybe you might use the word I felt seen. Our culture right now is not necessarily baked that into the bedrock of what it is. Forming genuine connections is easier when you're not trying to dominate the conversations or prove your superiority. Additionally, humility encourages empathy and compassion. And by recognizing your own flaws and limitations, you become more understanding and forgiving of others imperfections. This is a huge unlock. This empathy strengthens relationships, fosters an environment where people feel safe to be themselves without fear of harsh judgment. Put that into your work environment. Holy crap. Humility also reduces conflicts and promotes collaboration. When you're not driven by ego, you're more willing to compromise and work together towards the common goals that you're trying to achieve this spirit of collaboration. It's vital for maintaining harmony in personal and professional relationships. It prioritizes collective success over individual pride. Not to mention humility helps you stay grounded and realistic. By keeping your achievements in perspective and acknowledging the contributions of others along the way, you avoid the pitfall of arrogance and entitlement. I don't know about you, but there's been plenty of times in my life where I felt arrogant and probably felt entitled, and those are spaces that I do not want to be in. So moving forward, this balanced view of yourself, of myself, of your abilities, of my abilities prevents this overconfidence, and it makes sure that you remain approachable and relatable. That's where you want to be approachable and relatable. Trust me when I tell you you want to be moving yourself as far away from arrogance and entitlement to approachable and relatable, especially as you travel this journey to a life beyond your default.