What Makes a Great Agency ClickUp Champion

Welcome back to Agency Journey. This is Gray MacKenzie from Zenpilot. This week. My co host is Andrew Demski, also from Zenpilot. Andrew, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, Gray. Good to be back. Nice to be here again.

I'm thrilled. Today we've got a really fun topic. This is a conversation that comes up all the time in our work, but we're going to have to do some term explanation for people who listen but have not heard us mention this term before. So the topic for today's episode is what makes a great ClickUp Champion? Can you start with an overview? What is a ClickUp Champion?

ClickUp Champion is a singular point of contact in your organization who is the ultimate owner of your ClickUp instance. So this is someone who can take ownership over the overall design, over the habits and behaviors that the team needs to execute inside the system. They understand all the moving parts. They're also ClickUp Expert to be able to answer any questions or support teams as they're working to utilize the platform. So on a high level, that's who they are. They're typically from a project management background, but if not project management, they at least have a full understanding or an overview understanding of all the processes the agency operates. And they've got some experience with the timelines that dictate how those processes are executed for clients as well.

That's awesome. So regardless of what platform somebody's using, if you're running on Monday or Asana or whatever else, you should have your Monday champion or your Asana champion or your teamwork champion or whatever. None of those flow as well as ClickUp Champion and the alliteration we get there. So for that reason alone, you should probably migrate to ClickUp and talk to us and get help doing it.

And you really don't want the project manager that's like the Asana Champion. While you're on Monday and they're constantly saying, we should go over to Asana, you want to make sure your champion is actually a champion of the tool you're operating on. A big, big step, 100%.

Okay, so I want this to be an amazing resource, this podcast episode to be an awesome resource for folks who get thrown into that role, but maybe are not working with zenpod. They don't have our job description and all of our training to support them in that role. And I also want to use it for the agency owner who's saying, all right, I got to figure out who in the world this person needs to be. Am I this person? How do I make that decision? And who do I give this to and what should my expectation be around how much time goes into it and all that. So with that frame in mind, when you think of the best examples and again if there's specific people you want to call out, feel free to call them out. But what are the best examples? Like what sets them apart, what makes them so successful as a ClickUp champion internally at a firm? And then let's get into kind of how do we find people like that?

Yeah, I want to like the first words that come to my mind are both understanding and empathy. Understanding in that they grasp the flow of work, like how they understand the client journey, they understand how the client sees it. So they've spoken with clients before, they understand their perspective, but they also understand the internal team, kind of those who sat in the fulfillment seat and who are the designers, the writers, the developers, the people in the day to day functions that are just doing their job and they can understand kind of the tension between those two things of clients want things done at a certain time while fulfillment folks, they want to have clear expectations, they want to have enough time to work on it and the creative space to make it done right. So the one the Cookup champions that we've seen really, really, really do well are those that have that customer understanding and that empathy with the team, but they're also very detail oriented and very structured in their. So they can bring those two things together and be kind of the glue that holds the, you could call it the demand side from clients and the fulfillment side from the end team. The ClickUp champion kind of sits in that resourcing spot in the middle which brings those two things together, gets it visualized and structured inside of ClickUp so that everyone can see it and then maintains it so that everyone can look at that and realize that that's, that's kind of a point of truth that everyone can rely on.

Yeah, that makes sense. Think of some good examples are director of client strategy today Derek, when he was in house at an agency was a tremendous cook up champion. Sam Hurst over at A Lydia who's leading operations. A Lydia is an awesome Shopify design and development firm with some other services on top of that. And Sam was a very talented and is not, was still is a talented ClickUp champion but when we first went through implementation there's just people who stick out during that process and then running it on an ongoing basis after the fact. What are the. So you mentioned project management being in the background like from an experience perspective. Is there anything else you'd add in or let's say I don't have one of these people right now. What are the types of roles I should be recruiting for? The types of experience I need to look for?

Yeah, I do think that project management experience is huge. It's not required. I wouldn't say you need like a project management certificate or anything like that to fulfill this function, but you do have to have kind of a mind for timelines and details and deadlines. If you don't have that, you're not going to make a great ClickUp champion because the devil's in the details. In this role you appoint a click up champion so that you know someone is watching the details and that person should have simple systems. We'll walk through some of those simple systems to help them do that job well. But at the end of the day that needs to be someone who has a natural nose for this. Doesn't look right. Let me drill in and see what's really going on here and figure out is this a systems failure or is this a user failure that caused something to go awry here. So I think project management experience is key. I think like I said earlier, having the experience of being on client calls and understanding the pains that your clients are feeling, what motivates them, what are the things that they're trying to accomplish and being able to use that context to inform how you're mapping timelines and how you're, you're communicating through priorities and through scheduling conflicts and out of office stuff like you, you've got to have that understanding there from the client side of things. Sometimes project managers can be kind of cold blooded and just like this is what needs to happen. So I think kind of warming that up a little bit from the client side and building relational connections with team members is going to be important in this function too. So you can't just be a taskmaster of do your job by the due date. There's gotta be a balance there, I think where you're a people person that can work with clients and your internal team in order to get those two things, you know, in a healthy spot.

Yeah, you wrote down some criteria. We've got some new and trade back and forth on some of these. Will you take us through? I think you got four or five bullet points. Take us through kind of your bullet points of who this person is and then I've got some thoughts that I want to add on top of that.

Yeah, absolutely. So selection criteria for your ClickUp champion. Number one, it is not an owner or a leadership team member. And this is a hands down, no negotiations rule for us here at Zenpilot. If we're working with somebody, we've seen it fail too many times. We've seen the owner start out with gusto, but then or even the director of operations start out with gusto. But once they get into the trenches and the mundane nature of this, and it's mundane in that it's repeatable processes every day, you gotta be doing some stuff to make sure the system's up and running. That's not for every personality type. There's some personalities that thrive in that they want to continuously improve every day and move those things forward, and others that they just have too much on their plate or their personality doesn't line up, whatever it might be. So that's number one, make sure it's not an owner or a leadership team member. The ClickUp champion needs to have the full support and backing of those functions, but it shouldn't be them because it's going to be too easily derailed. Number two is they need. The ClickUp champion needs to have thick enough skin to be a referee. And what that means is they need to be willing to call out teammates when they violated the rules of engagement that the team has agreed to. And a classic example of that is someone moves a due date without leaving a comment on why they moved it, or there's a task floating that's late that they haven't updated the status around or haven't updated the due date on. Those are two situations where the ClickUp champion wants to reach out and say, hey, what's going on here? Put an update on the task. And the team has to receive that and do that because they need to know that the system reflecting reality is really, really important. So they need to have a thick skin there so that they can handle that conflict. It's healthy conflict. But there's some people that, that brush off. They don't like that feeling of asking other people to do their stuff. So they need to have thick skin there. They need to, number three, have a general understanding of how the team processes flow. So kind of knowing the client journey at a high level and then going into each phase of that journey and saying, okay, how do we do our discovery projects, how do I do our implementation, our setup, our configuration projects, how do we do our ongoing support projects or our retainers and understanding kind of the main cogs in the machine and how things flow and within each of those, what are the different departments and teams and roles, how are Tasks assigned, how is workload determined? Where are assignees set up? Like all of that stuff, the ClickUp champion needs to have a grasp of all of those intricacies so they can understand the system and how it all flows together. And then the last thing is they've got to have capacity to fulfill the role. The size of your team and the number of clients you have, the number of projects that are under management in your portfolio, all of those things are going to contribute to how much time it takes for a click up champion to do this role. This could be a full time person. This is all they do if the team was big enough. For most teams, this is someone who can either be a project manager or an account manager and can kind of be a 20 to 30% function that they execute on. But this can't be someone that's overloaded because again, it takes daily time. Time to do your weekly roundups, time to do your monthly analysis, all those things. You need to have that on the calendar and make sure that's protected. So that's again why we go back to the top and say there's no owners or leadership team members here. Because they're just, they can't be predictable in that sense.

We got a couple things I want to tag onto that and maybe we should have started with like hey, what is this person doing on a day to day basis? And we know that there's four specific K we want them to run with their daily spot check, their weekly roundup, their monthly review, their quarterly analysis. That's going to happen with specific set of instructions for each of those that they're running. But a couple of things I would tag on in terms of how you find this person and actually maybe I'll start with a question to you first. You said having a general understanding of how team processes flow. So if you're on a team right now, you don't have anybody who fits the other qualifications. How do you hire somebody new and put like is that advisable? Is that not advisable bringing out somebody new where part of their function is as your ClickUp champion?

No, it's definitely possible. And where we see that most often is if there's a team that doesn't have a natural project manager function on their accountability organizational chart right now where the account manager is doing a lot of the project management or the end users are responsible for scheduling and maintaining their task load and they're just missing that project manager function. If the project manager is on the team, nine times out of 10 they're kind of getting defaulted to the ClickUp champion. And then if there's multiple project managers, it's usually the lead that's sitting in the ClickUp champion role. But if they're, if there's multiple people or if there's no one that sits in that project manager seat, then we can often find people wanting to look to the outside to bring that person in. And I think that you can definitely do that. You can go out and find that person with experience, experience there. I think it's important to have a framework that you give them number one and then number two. Give them time and exposure to how the business runs. Don't just keep them in a vacuum saying like keep the tasks online. But you hire heads, not hands. So make sure that they understand how the company operates by spending time with each team and kind of learning how client work flows through the team and what type of clients they work with and what type of work the team does. And the more context they have, the better off they're going to be when it comes to managing kind of the timelines and keeping the projects on track.

That's great. A couple of things I'd add in. You mentioned thick enough skin to be a referee. It's got to be somebody who's comfortable managing up. So my addition to that would be the person who's comfortable going to someone who they perceive as higher than them in the organization, whether that's the owner or someone on the leadership team and saying, hey, no, I'm just a lowly click up champion. But you didn't do this thing that we agreed that you would do. You sent these three people these tasks in Slack and that actually needs to wind up in ClickUp. It's gonna be really hard to keep buying across the team if you're not buying in as well. So you need to be comfortable going and having those conversations. And that's not always easy to find. You mentioned detail oriented. So hyper detail oriented. This is the person who's there, tech savvy, comfortable, exploring. They certainly do not need to come in as an expert on top of the tool. But you want, and I think this is a bonus, you probably have this as a core requirement. I think that this does not absolutely have to be the case but boy, it's a huge benefit when that person is always also the person who. They've got their own little sandbox inside of ClickUp and they love testing stuff out and figuring out, oh wow, here's how you link tasks in bulk and build relationships and here's how you do whatever else. Here's this little integration using Zapier, using Make that does this cool thing and lets us add an emoji in Slack and creates the, you know, a task and click up automatically. So it saves us a couple clicks every time. If that person, if the person's wired that way, that's a huge benefit. I think that that in my experience, does not always go with a traditional project manager. You find a lot of project managers who love like, no, this is the process, this is the system, this is the way that we do things and we're going to do things this way, way for the next two years. And so you want somebody, ideally you'd want somebody who has the appropriate level of respect for the process and the requirement that especially in the digital marketing space, we are always innovating and we're always finding new and better ways to do things. And we're open to that.

Yeah.

And we'll carve out time to do that.

Yeah. You want the operational ideas guy or ideas gal, whether that's the Cleop champion or that's the head of operations or that's just somebody on the team. Like, we want someone who's testing and trying new things and we'll get into it. But that's where your monthly review, your quarterly, your quarterly process comes into play, to be able to apply some of those things and test some of those things out that you're learning out there so you're not just stagnant and staying stuck with the tool stack you've got.

Yep. Cool. Well, let's talk through. I think what might help help flesh this out a little bit for folks in their minds. And then I'd like to talk specifically about, like, how do we find these people, what do we pay these people, that kind of info. But if we're talking about the roles, you've got a couple responsibilities here. Why don't I go first with these four cadences and you tag on top of that with your responsibilities outlined.

Yeah.

So the common habits, once the system's built, once it's implemented, once this person's been trained, they are running a daily spot check. That is, both the daily spot check and the weekly roundup are largely centered around activity, the inputs into it, where our monthly and quarterly is largely focused around the outcomes from that. How do we make better decisions moving forward based on the data that we've collected? So on a daily basis, I'm looking to make sure people are following the rules of engagement and if there are any Challenges that I'm there to support and to hold them accountable. And I think that accountability piece and support piece are two sides of the same coin. One is support. Oh, I noticed you didn't track your time here. Like do you know the right place to track your time? Or I noticed you didn't enter this custom field value that we have, that we have need to have our time tracking appropriate. Or I noticed you didn't understand how dependencies worked here and so you messed up this project plan and that's causing these implications down the line. Let me just coach you through that and teach you. And so there's a little bit of teaching. And the other side is the accountability side, which is purely, hey, you know what the expectations are. I know you know how to do this. You just didn't do it. You were lazy and you decided to bulk reschedule 15 things all at once and not tell anybody what's going on because that's just faster for you at the end of the day and you're in a hurry to get out of here. That's not okay at our agency. So there's that piece on a daily basis, on a weekly basis. There will be a couple other things involved, but it's largely a what are the trends? What are the recurring trends that we're seeing here? And do I need to take this to somebody else, that person's individual manager, to say, hey, I need help getting this person bought in? Or look, Andrew doesn't have any bandwidth left. He's over capacity by this amount of that's showing up in his time tracking logs. How can we get him the help that he needs to get his work done? Or what's the lowest priority stuff? Can we take off this internal project or push this back and adjust timeline so it's that weekly trends and then planning and helping just from a everyday kind of project management component on a monthly basis and a quarterly basis is when we're looking at things like what's our profitability by project or by client, what's our profitability by department, what's our profitability by service line. And so when we notice, and this is where I think one of the things that I didn't mention earlier was analytically minded, someone who's comfortable with data and spreadsheets. That's one of the things when we talk about hiring. I'd love to see someone's comfortability sitting in a spreadsheet and understanding data. Not necessarily that they're the Excel whiz and they're going to Win the Excel games when those are on ESPN too.

Stop it.

But they're the person who's comfortable looking at data and saying, okay, from this I can clearly see our time estimated for SEO versus the time that we actually spent. We're way out of whack here. And that's a consistent trend that's now happened for three months in a row. We either need to charge more or we need to get more efficient with our process, or we need to get. Maybe it's the right process and the right pricing, but we've got the wrong people doing it. And so there's a reassigning of work. Like there's some, some variable here that needs to change. And they're putting together those reports, they're taking kind of the first scan through for what those trends are, and they're sharing the reports and their insights with the leadership team. And the leadership team is also taking the time and they're dedicating the time on a monthly and quarterly basis. Depending on role and team size. Those reports will look slightly different. But we're taking the time to look at the data and analyze what's going on and saying, oh, yeah, we're not getting work out the door on time for these clients. Is that a problem with client communication? Is that a problem with the teams assigned to those clients? Is that a problem with the workload? Is that a problem? What are the root issues and how do we take action based on the outputs, the outcomes that we're able to measure and see from the data generated by the system? So if those are the four key cadences that are just. That never ends, that goes on for as long as there's an agency and exist existence, what are the other responsibilities you would lump on this person's plate?

Yeah, and I would throw these four categories of responsibilities in the midst of those cadences. So the first one's going to be managing the user engagement. So while you're doing your daily spot check, while you're doing your weekly roundup, there's elements of both of those activities where you are looking at monitoring, reaching out to, encouraging training, coaching, correcting the team's engagement with the system, but just kind of understanding that as you move through these different things, you want to be aware of that. And so one of the things you may look at when you do your monthly analysis is that there's templates where we have a lot of tasks that are out of line or tasks that are just getting completed. And so we need to engage that team in creating some Updated processes so that we don't have to delete tasks when we're loading in that template. Quick example right there. But you're managing the engagement of your team with ClickUp number two, you're monitoring the system. And so that is just regular activity. Usually in dashboards or preset of views where you're just from a data structure standpoint making sure that tasks are showing up in the right locations, that people are scoping their tasks in the right way, that they're creating tasks from templates. The tasks that have been added on a one off basis without templates have the right custom fields on them, making sure that stuff is linked to the budget. All of the different things that are just important to have the system set up the right way. You're monitoring that stuff almost like you're monitoring the traffic cams. You're just there kind of behind the scenes in the cockpit looking at the dashboards, nerding out over that stuff. Number three is maintaining the system. So if you are monitoring the system and you spot an issue, maintaining the system can kind of flow in two different ways. It can be one, performing bulk actions yourself as the ClickUp champion, maybe you determine that you want to add a different custom field to get a different level of visibility into certain activities. I was on a call with a client today and they shared that one of their clients is a franchise and they've got a bunch of franchisee locations. And so we walk through what an additional custom field would do to allow them to get visibility into all this franchise franchisee locations. That could be something that the click of champion could roll out that they notice that they want to. They notice while they're monitoring that they don't have the level of visibility that they want to in a certain area. And so they're going to go while maintaining the system and add a different layer and then roll that out to the team, train them on what that means and then complete that cycle from there. Could also be that there's individuals who are violating the rules of engagement you spoke about where they're not correctly configuring automations that set custom field values for the client or for the service line appropriately. So we need to maintain the system by engaging a team member and so that they're our first two of team member engagement and monitoring the system flow into managing the system there. And the fourth one is just being the general ClickUp knowledge person to answer common questions from the team to share new tips and tricks with the team. And so here, this is where I would say it's, it's a little bit more important for the ClickUp champion to try new things. I'd put it in the realm of ClickUp, in particular of being curious in ClickUp. Be engaged in the feature request boards, be engaged in new features that come out, test things out, try different ClickApps, be engaged in a community of other ClickUp users and be always looking for ideas that you can, you can bring to your system to improve it, but also hacks and tips that you can share with your other teammates to help them do their job better inside the system and kind of live as the example of what you want your team to be. Just in terms of like never, never stopping the learning journey there.

I want to go off script and talk about the ClickUp for agencies community that we have only available to customers who've gone through an implementation with zenpilot right now. Is that the right way? Like, should we have that as a public community? Because there's so many ClickUp champions who for whatever reason, it's not that they made a choice not to work with zenpilot, but that hasn't been the priority from an agency leadership perspective or they haven't been able to make the investment. You put much thought into that, being a public facing and maybe even taking that and saying you have to be like, you've got to prove you're not the agency owner to get into this, you're the person in this role.

You got to submit your LinkedIn profile before getting accepted there. That'd be good. Yeah, we've talked about it, we've thought about it, and it's something that could be coming in the future. Right now there's a lot of opinion that we bring to the table in terms of our structure that we want to make sure we can teach those ClickUp champions that first in the context of an implementation and training and everything. But I think if we were to release it, I think that there would be people who would enjoy that. If you're listening to this, and this is exciting to you, the thought of a community of people who are working in agencies, implementing in ClickUp and wanting to do that together, feed that back to us because that's helpful as we make these decisions too. But the reasoning behind that is just we've wanted people to get trained up first through the context of an implementation prior to bringing them into communities so that everyone has shared knowledge. But I could see it working the other way too.

You think the challenging thing with those kind of fully open communities is there is A ton of, I mean, we're all entrepreneurs here talking about this, who are listening. Like I'm very hot on ClickUp for two weekends or three weekends in a row and then I'm out the door. So I'm kind of in. And then I'll come back six months later frustrated when it's not working out because there was no ongoing effort to maintain and build this versus someone who's in that ClickUp Champion role. Already there's been some investment into what that system needs to look like and they're in it. Like that's a, that's an intentional part of them having carved out capacity on a daily and weekly basis to be able to handle it. That could be an interesting way that maybe that makes the community make more sense to us to build out there.

Yeah.

All right, last, last thing, let's wrap it up with this. How the heck do I go find these people? What advice would you have for folks around, where do I find, how do I recruit? You know, what, what, what should this look like? If you're telling me the ClickUp Champion is not, and I'd say in very few of our clients cases is that ClickUp Champion a full time role? I mean you have to be a very, very large agency with a huge amount of volume for someone just in, you know, in a role that's ClickUp as a huge part of their day to day PM duties. Yeah. So what does, what does that look like?

Yeah, so again it would, it's likely if you're going to go hire somebody, you're going to hire a project manager in this. So understanding and writing a good job description for an agency project manager. And typically we would define that agency project manager as somebody who's in charge of maintaining timelines and assignments on tasks where the account manager, the account lead, is going to be working with clients directly and then collaborating with that project manager to get those tasks configured appropriately in the system and get them resourced and on a timeline. And so if I'm writing a job description for somebody who I want to be my ClickUp Champion, I want that job description to include, you know, criteria that would describe a project manager. And then I would also want to list in there that ClickUp is the platform that we're on and that we want someone that understands the platform, has experience on the platform, experience implementing and training on the platform too. So they're not just an expert themselves, but they've got the gifts to communicate that expertise out to others. So you're gonna have your detail oriented project minded like structured thinkers there. Because you're targeting project management as the overall job Description. You've identified ClickUp as a tool of choice. You've listed in there that you want somebody that can train on it, not just execute it themselves. And that would be like my baseline criteria there. And as you get those job postings out there and you find people that fit that profile, I'd then be working with them in terms of a show and tell exercise, of having them document a process that they use in their real life and walk you through it, train you on their process and look for two things, look for how they communicate through it, how they teach their process, and also look at the level of detail that they put into their example project for you in that test case interview to see how granular did they go. Are they looking at due dates? Are they looking at time estimates? Are they looking at dependencies and mapping workflows and considering each step in a process? That's where I would speak to a gray you may be able to talk more to like where could we pull candidates from? Than I could. But as I would look at the characteristics of that role, I'd lean on the project management background. But make sure you're bringing in someone who has tool expertise and a personality that can coach and train others.

Yeah, I think for this to make, to make the hire here of somebody who's going to be a ClickUp champion, I think we're going to see the talent pool around ClickUp change a lot. Where today if you go hire someone with ClickUp experience, at least in my experience, the conversation that I've had that generally has very little impact on their or it tells us very little about their level of expertise in ClickUp. There's a ton of people who say, hey, I've got ClickUp experience, I know the platform, but this is kind of like finding a HubSpot admin to come in house. Five or six years ago, all kinds of people said, and not even all kinds of people, that pool wasn't nearly as big five or six years ago as it is today. But they'd say I've got experience. That doesn't say anything about do you have good experience or what's the quality of that experience, or have you toyed around in the interface a couple times and so you've got ClickUp experience, or you've run very poorly designed projects on the platform and so you're turned off to it, or you come in with an opinion about a bad system, but that's going to change over time we're going to see a lot more people with a lot better experience get developed. And now it's much easier to go find. It's still not easy to find. It's a competitive job market out there. To find the HubSpot admin today or the, the Salesforce admin. There was a whole, there was a period of time way back in the day where that person was very hard to find and today that person is well compensated but it's an awful lot easier to find. There's a lot of those people out there and so we're going to see that the whole labor marketplace who tout that as a skill and bring that to the table change. So to me I'd probably weight that a little bit less than. And you might not disagree with this, but I wouldn't wait. ClickUp experience tremendously I would wait Project management experience. You've worked in a platform, you can show me an intelligent design. I feel like I can teach you. And that might be selfishly for me because I'm thinking about us being able to teach people. ClickUp very effectively and very quickly. But you've worked in a system, you understand how databases work and how task management and project management works and what a dependency is and all those kinds of things which if you're a project manager you will certainly have done. From a recruiting perspective I would, yeah. I mean this is kind of veering off in a general recruiting recommendations but spend your time on that job description and make that, that is the sales pitch for the role. So we don't want to lie in there, we want to tell the truth and what it is. But you know, including a personal video from you, hey, here's we run on ClickUp and here's the things that are important to us inside the platform. You know, like put that information out there, put yourself out there, share with people what it's like to, to truly work here and the impact that this role is going to have. This is going to have a huge impact on day to day experience and clarity for everybody on the team. This is going to impact and sell this. This is going to impact retention of team members and satisfaction that internal team members report. This is going to impact retention of clients and the lifetime value of clients. So you're directly impacting our revenue. This is going to impact profit by spotting the areas that are not profitable and bringing those insights to the table and improving that. So this is a profit center of our role and so we want to make sure that we sell the benefits of that and set the vision for that early in the process that this is not a push buttons and go look at who might have time and go make assignments inside the platform. And this is kind of just a system, a rules follower project manager who's largely useless in delivering real client work. That's not at all the mission for what this role looks like. And then when you have that, you know there's the common like LinkedIn. Indeed. Obviously go to your network first, look for referrals. If you're looking internationally, you know there's services like one of our partners Job Rack if you're recruiting in Europe is a great is a great recruiting partner. Prosana, Erica and Athena Prosana are another good. You know, if you want to go down referral paths you can go to that. If you want to use the freelance marketplaces, the upworks and the online jobs, you can go to those areas as well. I think for that decision. A lot of that would have to do with how your team currently works. Are you a remote first intentionally remote company who's got people in multiple time zones? Maybe that opens up other geographies that you're willing to work in. If everyone's located and working primarily Pacific time here in the US then that's going to be harder to do. If you've got a more synchronous culture, figure out what you need on that side and then use the appropriate marketplaces from there. But I think this is a really good overview. I appreciate you being able to share how you think about the role. Anything else we should throw in or make sure we point out about the ClickUp champion, it's worth the investment.

It's going to be time, it's going to be dollars. But at the end of the day, having someone who's monitoring your system on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, investing in that rhythm and those habits that's going to pay huge dividends. Do that for a year and you're going to be blown away by where you are a year from now just by taking the step of watching and monitoring those things.

Awesome. Well, we talked about what makes a great ClickUp champion. Give some tips on how to go find this person and what to empower them with. Andrew, I appreciate you coming on and sharing today.

Great to be here Team.