When Did Love Become Uncool?

If we look at happiness, love is more than just a fleeting feeling or a feel good moment. It's what makes happiness deep and lasting. If we have love tied into it. When we genuinely love others and ourselves, like we've talked about so far on this podcast, happiness becomes more than just a passing emotion. It's something that sticks around, grows stronger, radiating out from us and around those it becomes happiness transforms itself into what I might call joy. Listen, we think about health, love, especially self love. Going and getting manny and petty nudges us to take better care of ourselves. It motivates us to develop healthy habits. And it motivates us to practice self care and kindness. And when we're surrounded by love from others, we get the emotional support we need to stay mentally strong, mentally healthy. If we look at Hustle and Hungry, the words that we've combined together, love is the fire that fuels our drive and passion. It's what makes us hungry for more. More knowledge, more growth, more success. When we truly love our goals, the people in our lives and life itself, we stay motivated to keep pushing forward. If I think about helpful in the framework, when love is at the heart of what we do, helping others isn't just something we do out of obligation. It's something we want to.

Welcome back to beyond your default. I'm your host, Liz Morehead, and as always, I'm joined by the one and only George B. Thomas. But George, Yes, George, my guy.

Yeah.

You're a little bit like a terrorist sometimes, do you know that?

Just sometimes. Every now and then.

Sometimes. Because you and I hop on here for a couple of minutes before we, you know, catch up on the weekend, say hello to each other, make sure, are we ready to talk about life and happiness and all the things. And then occasionally you'll do, you know, normally it's just normal chit chat and then occasionally it's what you just did, which is I'm so ready to blow your mind at the beginning of this episode. I'm going to go ahead and hit record now.

I mean, why not? It's Monday. Let's get it started in the right fashion, right?

You know, well, before we get into mind blowing, how about yes, what's your highlight? And low light.

No, no, no. You do your highlight in low light first, I'll do mine second. See, that's part of the setup right there. Go ahead, you go first.

For our listeners at home, this is a cry for help. Hi, my name is Liz. I'll start with low light so we can end on highlight. So Low light is something that sounds like it should be a highlight, but not when you live on the top floor of a third floor walk up. Oh, and that is. I am a strong, self sufficient, independent woman who had to haul four trips worth of boxes up and down my stairs this weekend. Yeah, there is one point this weekend where I was halfway up the last set of stairs and I just kind of sat down in the middle and I'm holding this giant box that had, like pillows and a comforter in it and stuff like that.

At least it was light.

Yeah, I know, but it wasn't because it's a velvet comforter. And then also apparently there was. Thank you, Amazon for combining things. So it was a comforter and a toaster. Yes. So I was sitting on the stairs and at one point I was just like, man, feminism. Are we sure? To be fair? Yes, 100%. But man, like I said, that would have been a very different story not living on the top floor of a third floor walk up. Highlight was everything that came in those boxes. I sometimes like to joke that I have reverse seasonal depression. It gets too hot, it gets too sunny, people are a little too happy and chummy, and I'm just like, no, thank you. I come alive when it gets colder out. I come alive when even the most hint of pumpkin spice is in the air. I do. You know, some people do spring cleaning and spring nesting, and the moment Starbucks drops their pumpkin spice, I am there. I am ready. I redid my entire room. Everything feels nice. Is it still going to be 90 degrees today? Yes, it is. But I'm just going to gaslight myself into thinking we are moving beyond this. That summer is now coming to an abrupt and swift close. I mean, Labor Day, when we're recording, this is. Is almost here.

Yeah. So it's like the leaves are already changing or something.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. But no, it was just a great weekend. My whole. I redid my whole room. And the other thing that was nice too is it wasn't just about decorating. I took care of a lot of. Maybe this is probably a metaphor. I took care of a lot of lingering around the home things that had been bothering me. For example, my bed. Absolutely love it. It's this gorgeous big wrought iron bed that has had a squeak and I knew it was causing the squeak and I just wasn't taking the time to fix it. But every night I get up or go into bed and every morning I wake up squeaky and it annoyed me. Finally took care of that too. So it was just a Bit of cleaning house, a little bit of cleaning shop.

Love that. Yeah, sometimes you got to do that.

Go ahead, George. Whatever. Just. What are your highlights? And low lights, George, what's going on?

So low light. Have you ever wanted something so much but you weren't sure if you would be able to get the thing? And so then you have a day where you're like, well, I want it to happen, but is it going to happen? Like, I want it to happen. Is it going to happen? And so I had a day where I basically sat outside on my back porch, listened to some country music, even smoked a cigar for the first time in about three months. Because I was just like, I need to take time to chill because there's this potential life event that would be really, really cool if it could happen. I'm not going to. I'm not going to bring it up yet. If it happens, then I'll.

Is this something you and I have talked about?

Maybe. So that was. The low light is like what I would call it is this, like, mental roller coaster that I was at least able to drive and park it into where it needed to be parked by the time the day was over. But it was like I knew that I needed to give myself that time. Now let's move on to the more important thing.

I'm just gonna. I'm gonna put a pin in this. And I just want, you know, this is both a threat and a promise, sir. We had dedicated human time this past Friday to talk about our life and our dreams and our hopes.

Yeah, but this was on Sunday, so that happened before my thing that I just talked about on Sunday. So it. But it is what it is. So this week, especially end of week weekend, I feel like I did a great job as far as a father and a husband. Okay, let me explain. So first of all, I took both of my daughters out separately at different times, out to dinner, just her both times. Because daughters and me, and we had great conversations because we had this big life, possible event thing that might happen. And I wanted to pick their brain on, like, where they had. Where their head was and what they were thinking and what they're happy about. And I wanted to hear their dreams. Like, if this thing does happen, however, there's this. This was the moment for me. I'm sitting in my office, it's Saturday. I'm working on stuff because I like to work. I actually, like. I feel like I'm playing, but I'm working on stuff. And my wife comes in and says, we'll be back it's my wife and my daughter. And I go, where? Where are you going? And my wife says, well, Maddie's going to get her nails done and I'm going to get a pedicure. And I said, well, hang on, I'll go with you. And so I'm sitting there and I'm like, if Liz could see me now as far as self care, because I literally got a manicure and a pedicure, got the foot massage, got the hot rocks, got the, got the oils on the legs, like all. And I'm ticklish, by the way. So that was the fun part. But literally sat there and just like loved myself enough to get past this isn't manly. Sat there with my daughter and my wife. We laughed, we had fun, and I absolutely enjoyed air quotes girl day at the like manicure pedicure place. So that was my highlight. And by the way, I don't know why I waited till I was like 50 something years old to realize that you guys were hiding something and lying to us. Like I would have done this years ago if I would have known what actually went down it like in this scenario. But anyway, that's the highlight.

Okay, first of all, I told you.

I'd blow your mind.

Why did you wait so long? Because you were the guy who like, not three months ago when I sent you the outlines for self care, went, how do you feel about this outline, which is George speaks for. What the flip are we talking about and why are we here exactly? I need an adult. So that's probably the answer to that question also. Sec. We are not hiding anything from you. We are not hiding anything from you.

I mean, I wish I would have known earlier. Like if you're a guy listening this and you haven't gone and got a pedicure at some point in your life, I'm just asking you to try it once. Especially if it's a good like father, daughter or husband wife bonding moment. Because what's crazy is when we're in there, this other lady that I had, I didn't know her from anywhere. She was like, oh yeah, I love when my husband comes with me, me. And I'm like, what? What? What?

My ex husband used to go with me every time it was our. We had a little fancy pants Sunday.

Yeah, well, there you go. So that was, that was the highlight. Manicure, pedicure. I just let it happen.

And if you think for one second I've forgotten that there's some sort of massive life thing. Oh yeah, hiding from me. I will come for you as soon as this mic is off.

Not hiding, but, you know. Anyway.

Okay. Anyway. We are here to talk about a funny little topic. A funny.

Is it funny?

It is funny to me because we're talking about love today. Right. And my guess is this is not going to be the last time we talk about love, because we're going to talk about something very specific.

Yeah.

When it comes to love. Today, you and I had a conversation a while ago when we were talking about how we wanted to continue to develop the Superhuman framework. Right.

Yeah.

Which are the 10 pillars we use to help us architect a life beyond your default. So honesty, humanity, humility, hustle. All of these different things.

Yeah.

And then at one point during the conversation we were talking, we said, well, love is. It's the reason for everything. It's the reason for everything. And then I said, well, that's strange. Love isn't. Oh, my gosh, We've never talked about love. I ran a scan of all of the transcripts from every episode prior to this one. The times the word has come up in the context of us talking about love.

Key point there. The word. But go ahead.

Yeah. Single digits. And when I asked you, why don't we talk about this? You said, we can't talk about that.

Saying, I'm getting caught on the carpet right now.

Yeah. Well, you knew this was coming. You've known this episode was coming for weeks. But before we dig into that, we're talking about today. When did love become uncool? Now, for some of you listening, you might be like, what are you talking about? When did love become uncool? We're going to get to that. But, George, I want to start today's conversation by asking you about the squishy part, which is, again, love is barely talked about on this podcast. It is suspiciously absent from the Superhuman framework, which we will get to.

We'll get to that.

No, no, no, I understand. It's inferred, it's implied, it's the root. But we don't talk about it for something so important we do not talk about. But I want to start with the squishy part. I loved when you said out loud. You got all squishy about it, too, when you said it. Love is the reason for everything. When did love become the reason for everything for you? And was it always that way? Or was there a catalyst moment where that shifted?

Yeah. I want to answer this question, but I also want to say why I said the word. That was a key point. The word single digits. Listeners, you need to know that the idea of this podcast and bringing it to the world is based out of love, you need to know that every episode that I've sat down to craft is out of love. Love for you, love for the ability you have in your life. Like, I would not take the time and pour out the love from myself and Liz, same as what I'm saying, if we did not love you, believe in you, and think that this could be the catalyst for you to get the places that you're trying to get in your life. So while we might not say the word, this whole thing comes from a place of love. So here's the thing, Liz. I have to break this down because it happened in multiple phases. Phase one, though, as I sat back and thought historically of my life, which you're making me do more and more as we get closer and closer to writing the book and, and getting the book out to the world. I was transported back to Cardwell, Montana when I was 15. And I had forgotten about this. I haven't really. I don't know if I've ever talked about this publicly, but I was transported back to Cardwell, Montana when I was 15 and I had started to go to church because we moved into a new community from Bozeman, Montana, and one of the things that they did is they would have the kids occasionally do a sermon. We stood up in front of the church and we actually gave a sermon. I gave my sermon, Liz, on love. And the sermon that I gave, it talked about love being messy and why love was messy and how we needed to think about love. And I went through and I talked about love. Now, Liz, I have a question for you. When you think of the word love, what do you immediately think of?

I don't immediately think of one thing. Love encompasses so many things.

Okay, what do you think of hugs?

Genuine caring. I don't know, it's.

See that right there. Because it was an, I don't know, pause, right.

And so many things. How do you even.

Well, that's the problem. And so most people, when they think of it as a four letter word, love. Well, it's love and it's puppies and kittens and romcoms and, you know, it's. It's just love. In this sermon, I actually talked about Euros, which is romantic love. Like. Like it's the passionate, you know, physical attraction, intense emotions. We talk about falling in love. In the sermon that I gave, I talk about Philo, which is the deep friendship, connection based, mutual respect, loyalty, shared values usually found in close Friendships or if you like your brother or sister in sibling relationships, you may or may not have that listeners storage, which is the familiar love, the natural unconditional love between family members, like deep emotional bond between parents and their children. Agape love, okay, this is the unconditional or the universal love, the selfless, the altruistic love extended to all people, characterized by compassion and commitment to others, their well being without expecting anything in return. Ooh, I'm getting goosebumps. Ladies and gentlemen, if you've listened to this podcast, historically, you've heard me talk about expectations, you've heard me talk about commitment to others, literally. I just started this podcast of like, it is coming from a place of love, coming from a place of service being built for you. Agape, unconditional universal love. We've got Lotus, which is the playful love, right? Pragma, which is the enduring or practical love. This is like the long term stable love based on mutual respect, understanding, shared goals. It's found in mature relationships or long term partnerships. We've got self love, right? Like there's just so many mania, obsessive love, compassionate love. Like there's so many things in so many ways. And here's the thing, usually in our culture, love never goes that deep. People don't think about, well, what kind of love am I in or feeling or leveraging or being part of? And so all of that to say, like, love can be messy, love can be confusing. And I have always been the type of guy that like, I'm like, well, let's simplify the complex. I don't know if I figured out how to simplify the complexities of love. Therefore, we have really not talked about it at a super deep level. But I will say that one thing. When I was thinking about this sermon, I, I was like, oh my God. I hadn't put this piece, but I remember when I gave this sermon how impacted I was and how I said at 15 years old, Ooh, ooh. My life goal, I want to grow up as agape love. I want to be selfless. I want to extend to all people. I want to be compassionate and committed to others well being. I want to be able to temper my expectations so that I can be the best and show up the best. So Liz, that was like phase one of this whole, like, understanding. There are different layers and levels of love to actually pay attention to. At Trinity Baptist. Pastor Dave Wright, I've talked about him before on the podcast. He did a sermon called Treasures in Trash Cans. And it was during that sermon that I realized that I. I have to love myself. Dude, you've been dirty, you've done dirt, but at the end of the day, you're a treasure. Like, God made you in a certain way. So, like, moving forward from this day forward, you have to love yourself. And when. When I think about that, I tap back into that original sermon and the layers of love in which I should have for myself and those around me. And so you have this, like, understanding of the structure of different loves. You have this moment in time where it's like, you need to love yourself so that you can love others. Which Liz, we talk about in other podcast episodes. The Blessing Bomber. And so this is the third phase of, like, if you're gonna be a blessing bomber, guess what, homie? You're gonna have to love them. You're gonna have to love them with agape. Love with zero expectations. Because blessing bombers don't look back. They just bless and they go. Because they're not there for the rewards. They're there for the blessing to be that thing that they're supposed to be. And so, like, it's always there. It's part of who we are. But again, it's just messy and it's hard to unpack. And. And not to mention, like. And we'll talk about this, but if I say love to a room full of people, the amount of people that are going to feel like me, probably not a lot, because there's some ways that love ain't cool. There's some ways love ain't been used. Right? That's where the three main phases of my life where I think this pick up love and roll with it comes from.

It's so funny. As soon as you said agape, it reminded me of the fact, you may remember our Hyena Energy episode, and there was a particular artist who had created some cards that we talked about. I have this from her as well.

Hey, there we go. By the way, if you're not watching this.

Oh, I thought that.

Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. You go ahead.

No, so there she has these. She's an artist, so she has these beautiful pieces about the different types of love. And it's just this really cool piece of artwork about Agape. Yes, I love it. Anyway, I find your answer very interesting because you seem to be such a champion of love.

Oh, yeah. Preached about love, without a doubt.

Love is your reason, the reason, etc. Etc. But let's go back to what I mentioned earlier, because when I asked you in a previous conversation privately why it's been so absent in every conversation we've had so far in the podcast. Once again, you said you can't say love is the reason for everything. You can't say that.

Why? Man, I wish I would have never said that to you. Here's one of the things. And by the way, that conversation with you and this prep for the podcast and this podcast is making me think about why I said that and the actions that might take place after all of this. But historically and today, I'll say I am Liz, hyper focused on not offending humans. If I offend you, it is very hard for me to bless you. If I am the typical person that might walk around with the Love 2 by 4, I might knock you out. And it's really hard to have a conversation. If I knock you out, I may put you out of the place of being able to listen. Liz, I've always had this mindset or mentality and when I say always, I'll say the last 20 to 25 years that I've actually been trying to do good on the earth, I have this Johnny Appleseed mentality where instead of like most or some loving Christians like to hit people over the forehead with their proverbial two by fours. I've had more of a Johnny Appleseed where I'm like trying to just plant some seeds and if they grow, they will grow. But again, it's because I've been hit in the forehead with the two by four and I didn't like the way it felt. That didn't feel like love to me. Therefore, I didn't want to return that to the world knowing and how it felt to me. And honestly, it's also because the, the understanding of negative outlooks and misunderstandings of the word love, like what's, what's around it. Like, let's be honest, I don't know if agape love is the first thing that came to anybody's mind when I said, hey, Liz, talk to me about love. Like, love is often hyped up and packaged like a product in today's society. It's the cheesy.

According to Hallmark, it is a product.

Yeah, the Hallmark Channel, it's. Oh my God.

I say that as someone who loves Hallmark Channel movies. That is a secret shame of mine.

And I'd love especially Christmas. Like Christmas Hallmark Channel during Christmas or Christmas in July is the best. I swear to God. It's on 24 hours a day.

I love because your wife, your wife is a good person.

You know how I know I love my wife? Because I'll sit and watch him with her and know that we watched the dang thing last year. I'm just saying. But anyway, it is packaged up like a product. And again, you think about the cheesy rom coms, the Valentine Day ads and, and the. It sounds like great, no harm, no foul. But this builds up our expectations as humans that love should be this perfect and magical thing. And, and so when real life doesn't match up, it's super easy to feel disappointed because, well, my life isn't the Hallmark Channel, my life isn't the Valentine's card. And by the way, we have to think that we have listeners all over the world, right? In some places, showing love openly is seen as weak or naive, especially when a society. I could so go somewhere right now. Being tough, independent makes love uncool. Or embracing love uncool. That's not manly. What is wrong with him? Like, not to mention most of us, by a show of hands that I can't see, how many of you been hurt in life? Like, when people experience hurt, betrayal, when we're let down, it's natural for us to become cynical and start to think that love is just a fantasy. I'll never be able to get it. I'll never reach it. I thought I had it, but it was elusive. It slipped through my fingertips. For some of us, love has been associated with, like, countercultural movements, damn hippies, them Jesus lovers. And it becomes dismissed as like, this unrealistic or overly idealistic traditional for those groups. Liz, we've talked about on this podcast the Good Vibes Only, like the toxic, toxic positivity. Oh, my God. Like the Good Vibes Only mindset can make love feel forced and fake, which, by the way, love should never be forced or faked. But being told to stay positive and loving all the time can start to feel like, pressure. Like you feel like you're in life's pressure cooker. And the funny thing about this is good vibes only. Like it makes love seem shallow and insincere. And love is a very deep well. Like true love, the real love is a very deep well. I'm going to throw this out there and I've kind of alluded to it. For those who religious institutions have hurt, hearing messages about love can even feel hypocritical or painful. Liz, I've said on this podcast, I thought Christians were the most hypocritical people I've met in my life. By the way, people in other religions might say that about other religious people. Like, I'm not just drawing the line at Christians, but like look, hurt people, hurt people. And hurt people are in churches because they're trying to get healed. Oh my God. Like what do you think is going to happen around this? We, we live in a very. By the way, I love the world, I love humans. But if I look around, we live in a very self centered world. Ideas like selflessness and community, love, they probably look and feel outdated and irrelevant in many of the humans lives that might be listening to this podcast. And if you're listening to this for the first time, this might be the best episode for you to start this journey on, to be honest with you. But, but we have this pressure to find the perfect romantic relationship that can be overwhelming. Then all of a sudden love is a source of stress. Love isn't supposed to be stressful. Love is supposed to be the unlock element for all the other things in our life. Like, I can't wait because I want to talk about love to the H's because you, you kind of threw me on the carpet of like, how come it's not in the superhuman framework? I'm like, ah. Like, oh my God, I'm doing everybody a disservice in not talking about how this is like a fundamental piece. But like love is not supposed to be a stress inducer. The last thing I'm going to say on this, and if you've ever been part of this, I apologize if the person has not apologized for themselves because the one that pisses me off the most. Unfortunately, love can also be used as a tool to control toxic relationships. They leave people bitter and disillusioned to what the true meaning of love is and the power in which love could have for them moving forward, but they're not willing to embrace it. It's no longer cool, it's hurtful. And so Liz, why have I tempered myself historically? Because dang gummet, like, love is messy and love is different for every single human and the journey that they've gone through or had the opportunity, depending on how you look at it, to go through, to mold their story. And honestly, this is one of the hardest places that I look at because I can look at most humans and I'd be like, oh, this is where I need to meet them. Oh, they need a little more hustle, they need a little more happiness, they need a little bit more health. But when I try to turn on the love gauge, I'm like, ooh, I don't know, I don't know.

So a few things. Number one, I don't know if you watched my reaction as soon as you were said I was worried about offending people.

Yeah, man.

The content therapist strategist in me, my little antenna went up. If you're focused on not offending people, you are basically absolving anybody of any responsibility to sit through the discomfort of being exposed to new feelings and new ideas and new thoughts. And also sometimes someone being uncomfortable with something that you're sharing with them that actually speaks more about them than it does about you. I think two things can be true. I think you can go into any conversation and say, I am here to be purposeful, I am here to be productive and I am here to be constructive. I'm here to listen and I'm here to be open. The moment you switch or flip that switch to I don't want to offend. That's not how that works. That. That's not speaking with your true voice. Sometimes discomfort is the pathway to growth and you have to get comfortable. You are in trouble. But here's what I will also.

I feel like I'm in principal's office right now.

You brought up a number of really good points that resonated with me because when I think about certain things, like, well, why don't I like talking about love? Mine felt a little bit more, I don't know, not as well thought out as yours. Right. I wasn't uncomfortable talking about love because I don't want to offend people. Like, it had nothing to do with anybody else. I just didn't want to look like a hippie. So there's that.

Right?

Like, you know, because the moment somebody, you know, it's all about love, man. I'm like, aha. So where's the pamphlet you're giving me? Right? Like what, what's happening here? So there's that piece of it. Like I don't want to look like a ding dong. The other piece of it too is what you mentioned. We don't want to admit how much we want it. We don't want to talk about how vulnerability you're.

You're knocking on the door of vulnerability right now, by the way.

You don't want to talk about how much you want it. You don't want to talk about how much you're worried you won't have it There it. Love is very interesting in that it reminds me a lot of the concept of happiness. It's not a. Happy is not a four letter word. It's a five letter word. It is one that people struggle to define. Like everything you were saying about love. I'm like, did we already record this episode? Oh, yeah. It's called happiness. Right? Everything about these very quote unquote simple ideals that quote unquote, everybody, we all want to be happy. We all want love, except none of us chuckleheads know how to define it. And we're always worried we're not going to have it. And anytime we try to chase it, that is exactly the point. We will repel it. The whole conversation is completely backward and inverted.

I have to go sideways for a second and then we can get back on love. It's funny you said happiness is a five letter word.

Why is it happy?

Yeah. Well, so happy is a five letter word that's actually masking the three letter word that you're looking for. I'm just letting everybody know.

Is that joy?

It's joy. Joy is what you should be seeking. Like, I have this whole thing that I'm. I can't wait till I can bring this to the world of like a mental shift from success to significance. And I have very much another mental switch is like happiness. It's joy. I'm looking for joy. But anyway, we're here for love. That's another podcast episode. We're here for love.

Joy is a state of being. Love for me is an act.

I'll say a little bit of both, but yes, I do. Yes. But I do agree. Love is an action. Love is a choice.

And one of my favorite things about love, and I've written about this in the newsletter quite a bit beyond your default.com/forward/newsletter where I talk a lot about polarity. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I like to talk about opposites and polarities. Right. I like to talk about this idea of two things are almost always true at the same time. And often if you want something in order to achieve it, you actually need to do the exact opposite. You want something to go faster, you need to slow down, you want life to get easy. George, Just like you talk about do hard things.

Yes.

Right. What's fascinating is that if you want to achieve love outside of yourself, look inward and start loving yourself as hard as you can. One of my favorite things to say.

Is go get a mani pedi. That's her favorite thing to say. Love yourself within. Honestly.

True. I got my nails done this weekend. It's pretty. Once you start pouring love into yourself, it becomes so much easier to pour love into the world.

Without a doubt.

Without a doubt.

So true. That should be like the quote of the episode. That right there should be the Quote of the episode at the very top of the show.

Notes like. And what's really funny about it is that. So this is the longest I have ever been single in my whole life. Longest I've ever. I hated it for a while. Absolutely hated it. But that was because I was learning how to be alone.

Yeah.

And what was fascinating about it is I realized, Liz, are you chasing love or are you trying to avoid your fear of loneliness, which I've talked about very deeply on. On this episode. What is my. Why? I have felt true loneliness. I have felt darkness. I have felt not being seen. Now I'm about. Let's see, about a year and a half since Patrick and I split up, and I went on a date on Friday. It was fine. The spark wasn't there. He was really nice guy. It was mutual. We both were like, this was great. Not there. It was really nice to meet you. Just not really, you know, I wasn't upset. I was fine.

Interesting.

And it's so funny. I've gotten to this weird place where it's like, I'm just really kind of happy being me. And then I realized maybe that's the.

Quote for the episode. I hope the listeners understand how. And I hope you understand how powerful that statement is. I'm just happy being me.

Well, that's the love story we always ignore. We always seek love stories without. But the first one we need to forge is with ourselves, which.

Yes.

This is where I get to the answer to this question for myself. I don't want to sound like a hippie. I don't want to sound like. Because if you grew up in the D.C. area, you were very used to. Anytime you went to a museum, somebody was coming up to talk to you about Krishna and, like, love and all this stuff. And it's just not cool to love love. Which is funny to me because love is at the center of so much of our pop culture. Right. There are songs, movies. Every Hallmark Channel movie that you've ever watched, even though you. I'm pretty sure, George, you think it's all just one movie that they just recast. And everything in our pop culture is about love. Whether they're explicitly love songs or they're breakup songs or their rom coms, there's a running joke, which is actually a very serious issue. There's a. There's a test. I think it's called, like, the bestsell test, the bench shell test. I can't remember where. It's like, very few movies pass it. And the test is, can there. Are there Scenes in the movie with two women where they're not talk. Talking about men. Like, love and relationships are so centered in our culture, and yet there are so many people like us, George, who do not want to admit its importance in our lives, if we're even ready to acknowledge it at all. So that gets to the title of this episode. When did love become uncool? When did this happen?

So I want to unpack a couple things I don't know, because in the question slash statements that you're just making, I don't know if true, True love is at the center of pop culture. I think there's a carnival, fun, mirror version of love in the center of pop culture.

But Twilight is about stalking. He just happens to be hot. Love at the center of. I'm re watching Scandal right now, and everybody worships Kerry Washington and Tony Goldwyn, who played the president and Olivia Pope. And don't get me wrong, I love that show. And Tony Goldwyn, like, call me, but, like, that is an obsessive, unhealthy relationship, and he, like, he murders a lot of people. Like, it's not. None of this is healthy.

Yeah. Anyway, okay, let's. Let me move on. I was about to be real vulnerable and talk about my fascination with one of the shows that you just mentioned, the movies that you just mentioned. But let's, let's continue on.

Are we sure you said you were going to be vulnerable? That was.

Yeah, well, Team Jacob. Does that say anything? Like, does anybody listening this know what it means when I say, anyway, let's.

I'm. I'm an elder millennial girl. Of course. Honestly, both of them. Team nobody. Team Bella going off. Team Bella going off and finding herself. Maybe, like, go to San Francisco.

Crap. I binge the crap out of those movies. I'm just.

I watch them once a year. I watch them once a year.

Like, I know that I shouldn't be watching this, but I don't care. Here's my man card. Give me the popcorn.

George B. Thomas, Twilight lover.

Yeah, that's probably gonna be a social post from somebody at some point listening to this podcast. Anyway, but my point is, I don't know if true love is actually at the center of pop culture or the center of anything. Because again, if I go back to true love, I go back to, like, the agape style love if I'm using true love or the. The one that is not the selfish version or the controlling version. And there's a lot of selfish and controlling love that is shown in the center of pop Culture. So here's the thing, though. The other piece that I had discomfort in, and I know where it came from, because it's a launching pad from our original conversation. If I can't talk about that, I would say that I do admit its importance, the importance of love in my own life. Just many times it's to myself or my family, my close, close, close friends. This is the first time that I'm taking it as far as just to put it out in the world. But that's because of a level of trying to be careful about not running. And you even mentioned it, like, in D.C. hey, girl, I love to tell you it happens everywhere. We're in North Carolina, and we got people with cardboard signs and megaphones. You're going to Janet Jackson. You're going to hell. We love you. Now, just be quiet. Like, just stop. Just stop. And if you've been that person, I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend you, but just stop. I've tried to be so careful about not running people over with the love steamroller, because that's not what it's about. I'm not trying to flatten anybody out. I'm not trying to like. But, Liz, I think, based on the conversation that got us to this episode, why people might look at love like it's uncool. And we've kind of alluded to some of these, but past hurts and disappointments are, like, a major thing that we need to be cognizant of when we get into this conversation of love, true love, unpacking love, loving ourselves, loving others. Like, and vulnerability, by the way. But. And. But most of us have been hurt by love in some way sometime, whether it's through breakups, toxic or bad friendships, family issues. Like, you know how I know that we've all had this? Because we're all humans, and humans are gonna human.

Like, I'm special. Shut up.

Yeah.

I'm different.

Yeah. Well, if any listener listens to any podcast episode that we've ever done, they'll be like, no, Liz, you're human, and the humans in your life, human. And you're human, too. But that's. We're just trying to be authentically vulnerable humans on this podcast explaining, like, hey, everybody's life is messy, but those experiences with, you know, breakups or friendships or families, like, I know you can't see them, but they leave scars. That's the thing. If I cut my arm on accident, I'm gonna see a scar on my arm. If you cut my heart, if you cut my emotions if you cut my love. The scars there and you can't see it. But after enough scarring, after enough pain, it is really easy to start associating love with heartache instead of happiness. And love is like a foundational element of happiness. Liz, we jokingly talked about the Hallmark channel, but commercialization and creating love is this ideal. We're freaking bombarded with this. And by the way, it's not just the romantic movies, the rom coms that we joked about freaking. Go look at your Instagram feed. I do got constant talk about finding the one. You know, I found the one a long time ago when I was 14. I accepted Jesus in my life. That's the one. Like, do I happen to have other people that come into my life that I love? Yes. Am I happen to be married to the love of my life, my wife Kelly? Yes. Do I happen to love my kids? Yes. But what finding the one. Like, no priorities. Come on, like, bring it in. Let's have a talk. Real deal. Holy. Because here's the thing. When life doesn't match up to the perfect fantasy that we're scrolling through on the Instagram feed, the Facebook feed feed, the whatever feed, when, when it doesn't look like it looks in the carnival mirror of our TV screens, then all sudden we feel like we're the problem. Oh, what happens then? Well, then we start wondering if we should trust ourself. Should we love ourself? Is there something wrong with us? And so the toxic exterior is starting to create a toxic interior, and they're both eroding because of the. Anyway, vulnerability and fear, two things that we've talked about on this podcast historically. Go check out the other episodes. We'll make sure there's links in the description. If you haven't listened to them, listen. There is no way around what I am about to say. Loving someone means putting yourself out there. Loving someone means being real. Loving someone means showing your true self. Now, let's be honest, that's freaking terrifying. Like, if you think that it's easy to put yourself out there, be real and show your true self, you're probably lying to yourself because that stuff is difficult. Like, wear masks, we build walls. We've got all sorts of metaphors on how we keep ourselves safe. Especially difficult to do those things when we live in a world that praises independence and toughness. So admitting that we need love or that it hurts when we don't get it can make us feel weak. Weak. Liz, we've talked about when did love stop being Cool. The cool factor. Somewhere along the way in our society, staying emotionally distant became the cool thing to do. James Dean, the Fawns. A, like, free, independent, don't need anybody on your Harley riding down the road. Like, there's this. This thing that we're trying to, like, not get people. Like, instead of being genuine and open, we've turned to, like, irony, sarcasm, and playing it cool as a defense. Trust me. And I think this is why I talk about the, like, historical George and the now George. For many humans like myself, being guarded is the norm. And if being guarded is the norm, love ain't cool anymore. And if love ain't cool anymore, you can't seek and find the thing that you need most.

I've got a couple of thoughts here, as evidenced by the fact that you watched me pick up my notebook.

Just picked up your notebook? I'm like, oh, am I going to the principal's office again?

No. You brought up a lot of really important things that I think we need to talk about here. First of all, and I want to dig a deeper on the pop culture aspect of it. Has anybody ever noticed that our favorite love stories end right when the actual love story begins? Like, all of these movies that we ch. And don't get me wrong, your girl loves a rom com. Your girl loves Sleepless in Seattle. Your girl loves all of these.

The Notebook. Come on.

I actually really don't like them.

Oh, what? Are you serious? That's a whole nother episode.

Then I think they're incredibly toxic. She kind of sucks. Like, I just rewatched Notting Hill recently, and I felt like, were we all gaslit into thinking Julia Roberts's character was nice? She's actually kind of awful to him.

So that's interesting where your mind is on these things. Go ahead.

No, because here's the thing. When I watched a lot of these movies when I was younger, I loved Notting Hill, right? Oh, my gosh. He's a bookshop owner, falls in love with an actress, but she never listens to him. She's actually this weird kind of detached, aloof person. And then there are numerous times where she does things that in a normal, healthy relationship, he has every right to be upset. For example, the first time they are together, she's actually still with a boyfriend. He doesn't know that. He finds that out later. And I kept waiting for this moment of her to go and say he thinks we're still together. I've tried to break up with him numerous times. I didn't know he was Going to be here. Da da da da da. And instead, it turns out they actually are still in a whole ass relationship together. She is still with Alec Baldwin. And then she gets mad at him because he doesn't understand what it's like like to live a life in the spotlight. Like, it's just absolutely banana stuff. I also think this has to do with very bad writing because every single other character is very well developed in the movie. Like, everybody, she's just this weird anomaly that doesn't make any sense. But to my broader point, think about how pop culture presents all of these great love stories I was joking about earlier. But the love story between Olivia Pope and President Fitz Grant is insane. He is a super stalker. He is not a healthy person. That is obsession. That is infatuation. That is, he has put her on such a high pedestal. She is not even Olivia Pope anymore. She is an escapist fantasy because he hates his own life. Like, I'm sure there's also the love component. And don't get me wrong again, I love Scandal. I love Olivia Pope. I love Fitz Grant. But like, pop culture teaches us and says, these things are love. So then we think, oh, these things are love. Yeah, but they're not. Love is forged. Whether you're taught, whether we're talking about romantic love, familial love, friendship, love. Again, I've written about this in the newsletter. You have all the great memories, have all the beautiful moments, but the moments that bring you closer to someone, the moment that makes you go, yes. Are the moments where you have to do hard things together. Are the moments where you have to choose each other, even. And especially when it's hard.

Yeah.

You know, even when my ex husband and I split up, it was very challenging because we were having conversations where we had to kind of admit to each other, we're doing this because we love each other. This is not the way anything is.

Supposed to be deeper than romantic love. That's the thing.

Like, yeah, exactly. Love shows up in these weird ways. But think about what pop culture teaches us. You either have someone or you don't. You don't, and you're broken. You have this type of love, and if it doesn't look like this type of love, which is, by the way, Hollywood ification, It is infatuation. It explores one very specific part of a relationship, and then it's, quote, happily ever after. So there's that piece of it. Right? And then you brought up something fascinating, Right. You brought up the idea of the true self. You have to show Your true self. And this is where that idea comes in first, right? You have to pour love into yourself before you can pour love into the world. But if you pour love into yourself, it becomes far easier to do that, and it enables other people to do the same for you. But that require. In order to show your true self, a couple of things have to happen. First, it's not, step one, show your true self. Step one is allow yourself to see yourself, because that's often what happens. We're not just wearing a mask to the world about who we are.

We.

We're wearing that mask with ourselves. Because at some point, we trained ourselves to only be a version of ourselves. That version is what is acceptable. That version is what we're allowed to be because. Yeah. And that is how we end up in these bizarre situations where instead of trying to assert and find true belonging, we try to fit in. We contort ourselves like a paperclip. So in order to actually show our true self to others, we first need to look in the mirror, see ourselves, and say, this is okay. This is more than okay, by the way. Only way you get comfortable doing that.

I have to throw this in. When you're looking at that mirror, make sure you're looking in the gap. A mirror. I'm just saying a couple of things come to mind. Liz. It's funny, you mentioned a lot of chaotic words that were masquerading as love, right? I was transported into. Yeah, it's masquerading as love. And this is probably why my grandpa said, garbage in, garbage out. Because. Because you see it, you now believe it. It's funny. I go, I think it was at. And T did the commercial where it's like, if it's online, it's true, right? Bonjour. Like the. Like the French guy. I'm like, no, that's not. No. Especially in a world of AI like, believe none of what you see, half of what you hear. Like, the world is just changing. And so, like, we're programmed through all of these ways that we think love is, or we're supposed to believe in love. And so this literally makes me want to talk about, like, in an episode of Good ways to guard yourself around what you allow in your life based on what you want to export from your life. Anyway. Oh, man, this is such a good conversation.

This is where it gets just really fascinating because it's this whole idea of exactly what you said, right? What we take in informs our worldview. It shapes what we believe is good, bad, bad, or neutral about ourselves, about Our lives about what we want, about who we are. And we live in a bit of a strange society, and our country is founded upon this ideal of exceptionalism via individualism. Right?

Say that five times fast.

I know, right? We rise by quote unquote being our most authentic selves, championing ourselves. But that's actually not true. That is actually not true. We have a very low tolerance for things that do not conform. This is a whole separate episode that we do need to have a conversation about. But if we talk about it from the perspective of love, this is where you need to start asking yourself, are you seeking without what you should be seeking within first?

Maybe that's the quote of the episode.

And the other thing you need to ask yourself is, is it really actually uncool or do you know love is the coolest thing in the world and you just don't think it's cool to see? Say it out loud, because my guess.

Is it's that it's cool, I'm afraid.

Hey, that's me. Don't you dare. Don't you dare. That's hurtful. So I'm saying, George, why isn't it in the superhuman framework? What the heck?

I had so many emotions when I saw this question. I first knew it was coming, but I wanted to cry and then I wanted to scream. Because it is part of the superhuman framework.

No, it's. It's infused and inferred. But it's not.

But it is. Here's the thing. We actually haven't had a chance to. To dig in and talk about this underlying foundation that is part of the 10H elements. And by the way, I did a interview with Chris, Carolyn, a friend of mine, around, like, the business side of this, because we're taking the superhuman framework from just personal growth to personal teams and organizational culture, because we've just seen this, like, massive impact in being able to talk around it this way. But in a conversation that I was having with him, I was talking about it's the underlying foundation. It's almost like the table stakes that one needs to be thinking about when they layer on the 10H's above. And that's love, purpose, passion and persistence. Like those four words, love, purpose, passion and persistence are so entangled and entwined in the 10 H's in the life that you're trying to live, when you're trying to live a life beyond your default. And so I want to give examples of like it is in the framework, the veins or the arteries of the framework. And so what it might look like is like. If we look at happiness, love is more than just a fleeting feeling or a feel good moment. It's what makes happiness deep and lasting. If we have love tied into it, when we when we genuinely love others and ourselves, like we've talked about so far on this podcast, happiness becomes more than just a passing emotion. It's something that sticks around, grows stronger, radiating out and from us. And around of those it becomes happiness transforms itself into what I might call joy. Listen. We think about health. Love, especially self love. Going and getting manny and petty nudges us to take better care of ourselves. It motivates us to develop healthy habits. And it motivates us to practice self care and kindness. And when we're surrounded by love from others, we get the emotional support we need to stay mentally strong, mentally healthy. If we look at Hustle and Hungry, the words that we've combined together, love is the fire that fuels our drive and passion. It's what makes us hungry for more. More knowledge, more growth, more success. When we truly love our goals, the people in our lives and life itself, we stay motivated to keep pushing forward. If I think about helpful in the framework, when love is at the heart of what we do, helping others isn't just something we do out of obligation. It's something we want to do. Ladies and gentlemen, this is why we create the podcast in every episode. It's something we want to do. We want to be helpful. Love naturally makes us want to support and uplift a hand up, not a hand out those around us because we genuinely care about their well being. Humility. Love teaches us humility. It reminds us that putting others first, recognizing our limits and staying open to learning are all part of being connected to something bigger than ourselves. Through love, we learn to stay grounded and focused on what really matters. Liz I could go through the rest of the H's with ease, but what I want everybody to understand is that love is in humor. Love is in the holistic mindset. Love is in honesty. Love is in humanity, by all that is holy, oh my God. And holiness. You can't have a conversation about holiness and have some level of love. I don't care if you're Muslim, Islamic, Christian, like there are fundamental elements in there. Like in a spiritual sense, love often feels sacred. It guides our actions and intentions. It helps us live with purpose and stay aligned with higher principles. Love inspires us to connect with something bigger, whether that's through faith, spirituality, or deep respect for the world, the universe around us. So like love is everything, love is Everywhere. It's our relationship that we have to lean in and focus on. What part are we willing to play with it and in it?

Well, you already started kind of answering this, but I am curious, particularly since it wasn't that long ago that we had this conversation where you and I were both like, well, yeah, we don't want to sound like hippies. Yeah, really, we would. Really hard pass. And no offense to hippies. Guys had great music in the 60s.

Yo. Listen, my mom is like. She's very much kind of that hippie person.

Yeah. Because even think about it, let's think about, like, we don't want to be hippies, but if you actually sit down, think, hippies are really nice, man.

Good people, by the way.

Exactly. But we don't want to be them. So this is what's so fascinating about this. This whole conversation is we've basically been to her, like, we are the biggest champions of love. Do not tell anyone.

Well, but here's the thing, because we don't want to admit that we have judged them for being who they are, and therefore we won't be like them even if we think they're cool, in fear that others will judge us for being who we are.

So you're just gonna break my brain like that? You're gonna break my brain like that while we're live?

This is the paradox we're in. This is the paradox that most humans live in.

I will not hold this against you forever. It's fine.

Just the rest of the day.

Just the rest of the day and into eternity. It's fine. So what's fascinating about this. What's fascinating about this conversation, though, is that it wasn't that long ago the conversation you and I had where you said, you can't say love is the reason for everything. You can't just say that. And when we push, we were both like, well, we don't want to be. We don't want to look like hippies. We don't look uncool. Right. That was literally two weeks ago. So you and I have now done an abrupt about face in some ways. Like, where should. We showed up to the mic today ready to have this conversation?

Well, I made myself mad.

You made yourself mad?

I made myself mad. I was mad that I even said that. And I was mad that I wasn't willing to not show up as a hippie. Not show up as a Christian Jesus freak. But I was mad because I wasn't willing to show up as George. And this conversation is a George conversation. This conversation is a list conversation. This conversation is a Bob, a Jenny, a Susie. I can't list out all the names that are out there in the world. This is a you freaking conversation.

So how do you want people to think about love differently? How can we make love cool again?

Yeah, well, first of all, realize it's a you conversation and you need to be cool. So freaking embrace love. But going deeper than that, I want people to look at love as. And again, we've kind of alluded to this, but you got to look at love as an active practice. Think of action and choice. Like, get past all the things that we've talked about. Love is not just about feeling warm and fuzzy. It's about what you do every day across different traditions. If you really dig into this and start to do some studying on the types of love that we mentioned across different traditions, Love is described as something you practice through acts of kindness, helping others, showing compassion, being loyal. Love is an action. It's about how you care for humans and how you take on your responsibilities and how you show up even when it's tough. Love isn't just a feeling. It's a choice that we get the opportunity to make every single day as long as we're not six feet under the ground. So what choice, what actions, what way will you show up today? I want people to look at love as something to help them be rooted in compassion and understanding. By the way, at the core of all of the teachings, Muslim, Christian, Islamic, Buddhism, at the core of all of these teachings is the idea that love is all about compassion, empathy, and wanting the best for others. The funny thing about this journey beyond your default life is when you actually want the best for others, the best for you shows up at your front door. When we try to truly understand people, even those who are, and you've met them, they might be your family members, they might be your friends, but especially those people who are hard to love. We build stronger connections and we create a more peaceful world. Ladies and gentlemen, if there's something that we need in our culture today, it's just for it to be a little bit more peaceful and less chaotic. And I want people to look at love as the foundation of community and maybe even a lever or gauge for justice. Love isn't just something that exists between individuals. It also is about how we treat our communities. And Liz, you know, like, for years now, I've been focused on community and community building in the different spaces that I'm in the HubSpot ecosystem now. The beyond your default. Like, it's about community. It's about a collective. It's about creating a mini society. And when love drives us to seek justice, equity, equality, collective well being, we help build a more compassionate and dare I say fair society slash community slash circle group o humans that we hang out with. I want to inject in the brains, the minds, the souls, the spirits, the hearts of the listeners that when we think about love, I want us to think about devotion and loyalty. One thing that you will find out about me, and I would say, Liz, and also probably the people that we hang out with, is that we have a loyalty to a fault. If you are my ride or die. If I am Toretto, trust me, you are with me till the end. And so that's because of this foundational love. Like, and again, let's go out of the fast and furious reference and talk about, like, traditions of the world. If most of the traditions highlight love as a deep, enduring commitment, whether it's to your family, your community, or something greater than yourself, the kind of love isn't just about, again, the way you feel. It's about sticking by the people, sticking by the values that you actually care about. It's the kind of commitment that brings stability and purpose to our lives. I kind of do this funny thing where at the end of the episode, I go living a life beyond your default. What I want people to realize is when I talk about that, I'm really talking about a pathway to inner peace and fulfillment. The only way that you live a life beyond your default, the only way that you walk a path to inner peace and fulfillment, it's by loving yourself, loving others. And we've kind of alluded or poked at this or, or even blatantly said it through this podcast. Loving others isn't just good for them, it's good for them. Don't get me wrong, but it's essential for your own sense of peace and happiness. Buddhism teaches us that by practicing compassion and letting go of selfish desires, that we can find inner harmony. Likewise, the Christian faith and Islamic teachings suggest that living a life of love brings us closer to our true purpose and leads to a deeper sense of contentment than material success ever could. Liz the foundational elements, if you think about what I just said of the 10H framework, the superhuman framework, love, purpose, passion, persistence, like, these are all built into and out of just these core elements. In essence, I need people to quit looking in the carnival fun mirror. I need people to quit believing or idolizing these abstract ideas of love. Love equals meaningful. Love means connected love Means a fulfilling life.

I was a little disappointed when you said, let's move away from the Fast and furious stuff, but I understand. Okay. So, George, if someone were to take one thing away from this episode, what would it be?

Yeah. By the way, I'm super curious what your one thing is going to be. My one thing would be I'm cheating. I'm going to do two things. So, first of all, I would beg that your goal would be in the next thing that I'm about to say that you are chasing agape love. I would beg you to focus on agape, the selfless love. The love that is extended to all people. The love that is focused on compassion and commitment, that's focused on, well, being of yourself and others. Now, if that's the direction that you're headed, the next thing that I would just say is make it a daily practice. Make love an intentional daily practice. Love is not just something that happens. Love is something that we actively choose. So as a daily practice, incorporate love into your routines. This might be kindness. This might be offering support. This might be just taking time to be present for others. But trust me, when love becomes a habit, it shapes not only your relationship, but also your character and your outlook on life. If you can change your outlook, you will change your outcome. Liz, what's your one takeaway?

Life gets infinitely more fun when you stop worrying about whether or not something is cool or uncool. Whether that's love or the things that you love. Half the time, whether we're talking about love or something else, we're worried about being judged, which means we are dimming our light. Which means we are not willing to show our true selves to ourselves or to anybody else. Because we believe that who we are as we are, is not enough or is too much or will not fit in. Or the moment we. We shine as brightly as possible with love, with excitement. For things like Fast and Furious movies. Love them forever. By the way, I have some bad news for you. They've delayed the release of the last movie until 2026.

Oh, no.

Yeah, I saw that.

And I don't love that.

I hate that. I hate that for all of us. Like Vin Diesel, you are robbing us of your art. Come on, man. Although there is a rumor John Cena is going to be back.

Oh, I know. Okay.

I know.

And the Rock. Anyway, not why we're here.

Yeah, the Rock. It's supposed to be about him. Okay, now you remember the after credits scene?

Yeah. Yeah. Now we're getting somewhere.

Okay. All right. So think about it this way. I love watching people light up when they finally remove the trappings of what they believe they need to show up as. And those moments where you start watching people talk about what they love and who they love and they're doing so in such a way that you can tell they. They don't have that doubt or fear. They feel psychologically safe to love whatever it is and whoever it is that they. It is incredible. People fundamentally change. They talk with their whole body. They smile with their whole body. They become love personified. And you know what? Here's. I will tell you. Stop worrying about being cool or uncool because there are always going to be people who think you're uncool. But them thinking you're uncool is more about rejecting a part of themselves than it is about rejecting you. Because think about the times, George, in your life where you've looked at someone and went, unless they were kicking puppies, in which case F them, don't kick puppies. But like talking. But think about, like, where people are being unabashed about who they are, what they are, who they love, what they love, and you're just, huh. Part of that has to do is we kind of wish we could be like them. Maybe not exactly like them. Maybe we don't love the same things, but we envy their ability to just be out there and themselves. You're not for everybody, nor should you be. That's why it's called the one, not many ones, you know. That's why it's your tribe, not all people's. All the time. Be uncool. It's all right. It's fun over here. It's way more fun.

Listeners, here's the deal. I love that. Don't be all things to all people because you can't be. But here's the thing. Let your light shine. I swear to God, don't you dare dim it. Be cool, by the way, and lead with love, because that truly is the cool factor and being able to enable yourself to lead with love. And then the only thing left to do is go out there and live a life beyond your default.