Why Agency Owners Need to Get Out of Client Services: Chase Clymer from Electric Eye

Foreign. Welcome back to Agency Journey. This is Gray McKenzie. This week I've got the pleasure of bringing on Chase Clymer, who is the co founder of Electric Guy, which is an awesome. I know you don't like just saying shopify, Web Design Agency. You guys build it out a lot more than that. So we'll talk about Net messaging, what that looks like, but, Chase, excited to have you on, man. Thanks for joining me.

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's funny, though, our clients would refer to us as a Shopify agency. So it's our problem, not. Not theirs. Right?

Yeah. The language that you want to use internally versus externally. You know, like, people know us as the ClickUp guys, and we're like. Well, we're like. We do a lot more than just ClickUp. And ClickUp by itself doesn't solve your problems, but, yeah, that's fine. Think of us however you need to think of us. As long as that. That gets you through the door and we get a chance to impact your business. I think of ClickUp, you probably think of Shopify maybe the same way. ClickUp's like the Trojan horse in our business model. That's why a lot of people come to us. But what they're really looking for is the result. There's a result that they're looking for at the end of the day. And I assume Shopify is the same thing in your business, right?

Yeah. Shopify is just a tool. Solving the problem takes strategy.

Yeah. The agency is six years old. Is that right? Six or seven years old.

Five or six. I'm really bad at keeping track of time.

That's all right. I'm too. I know I looked it up at one point, and then I don't have. I forgot to pull up my notes here, so I'll grab those.

But it's definitely our anniversary month, though. I know that. We filed to be a real business in October.

Nice. Well, happy birthday to the business. You were a freelancer for years before that, though, right?

Yeah. Once upon a time, I was in a punk rock band and that did not pay the bills. So I was freelancing the whole time while I was touring the country with the band, dabbled in this, dabbled in that, cut my teeth, learned a lot of stuff, figured out what I like to do, what I didn't like to do. And then when the band broke up, that was actually right around the same time that my business partner left his previous job and he started freelancing and making every mistake under the sun. So I was giving him general Advice on like don't do this position things, just do this stuff. And through that he kind of like introduced me to Shopify and then we started to tag team some Shopify projects together and next thing you know we had an agency because it was just easier to have a unified front when dealing with clients and like billing and all that jazz than you know, two weirdos with two email addresses. You know, it was, it was just a lot easier to have a standardized title at that point.

Yeah, I'm curious about the background. I'm going to come back to it in a second. But first, can you guess the quick profile on electriceye right now in terms of team size in this Shopify, are you purely doing website projects?

So team size right now I would say 10 employees full time equivalent would be my rough guests got a bunch of assistants and contractors that help in the background, six full time that are like on the core team. But the way I would position it as an E commerce growth agency, the way our clients see us as Shopify experts. And it's just, that's the funny thing, that's why you need to do client interviews. There's a, there's what everyone needs to take away from this is ask your clients how they perceive you and then that gives you all the copy in the world that you need for your marketing. But what we do, there's two sides of the business. There's the design development side which is a pure optimization play like conversion rate optimization, best practices. We're looking to increase average order value as well and then make sure that you have all of the kind of like correct apps and marketing automation in place on your Shopify store. So you're set up for success there. Then the other side of the business is more traditional paid media and marketing. So it's Facebook, Google, a lot of Pinterest as well. You spend money to get more eyes on stuff and then also retention marketing. So email and sms. Funny thing about that, that is purely klaviyo as well. So we are very technology like specific at times because it just makes it more efficient and less sops for everyone to update. But on the website design and development side, a prerequisite to be a client at our agency is you either need to be on Shopify or the project is migrating you to Shopify.

Right, right. Yeah. There's a lot of similarities there between what you guys are doing and what we're doing on the in terms of where you fit in the agency right now because I don't think your background wasn't just in web development, right?

No, I was definitely more of a marketing strategist. When we first started the agency, what I was doing for clients is I was running the Facebook ads and architecting the funnels. That's what I was doing at the start.

Yeah, that makes sense. And then. So what does it look like in the day to day now at the agency?

Yeah. So early on I had coffee with a gentleman here in Columbus, Ohio who had sold his agency like three times, sold it once to a bigger company, got put in for this earn out, sold it again to a bigger company, renewed his earn out. So he knew what he's talking about. And he basically said he was like, what's the split of your time trying to win new business and do sales versus executing for your clients? And I was like, probably like 30% sales, 70% client execution. He said, if you don't flip that tomorrow, you're going out of business. And so we took that to heart. I quickly got almost everything off my plate that I was doing, trained another team member to take over my kind of client responsibilities. And that was when I transitioned solely into the role that I kind of occupied for right now. And we're going to be hiring to Phil. So if anyone listening to this likes what we're doing, please reach out. Phil. So we're going to be looking. So basically what I do these days is I'm kind of the face of the brand of the agency. And so I do all the content, I do all the like, you know, the big picture marketing stuff is me. I have team members help me out with some of the smaller stuff. But, you know, so de facto CMO and then like more like tactical stuff is like, I am business development, I am partnerships and I am sales. So those are like what I'm doing. So it's all, you know, the, the attracted and the sell side of the agency model is what is in my to do list now. But we're looking to kind of grow the team and get some of that stuff off my plate.

Currently, that's Andrew, my business partner. And I've gone through a similar transition where I've taken over the front of the business, which is unfortunate for our business because I'm definitely. He's the better looking of the pair. He should be the face of the business and he leads the client strategy and client success team.

Um, yeah, early on and just throughout an agency, like once you have to get a little earlier on, it's kind of all hands on deck, like, let's get things done. When you add a new team number, you have to reevaluate swim lanes every time. Um, and so now we've got, you know, seven people, six. Seven people full time in the swim lines. Swim lanes are very specific. And basically what a swim. Swim lane is. Is like, what do you do? What is your role supposed to do? And what is your role supposed. Not supposed to do? And making sure that you aren't doing things you shouldn't be doing, which everyone wants to be helpful, and that's perfectly fine. But if you're being helpful, too helpful, and not getting your core job function done, that is actually not a good thing. Right, right.

Outside of. So you mentioned kind of the marketing, the content that you're producing, partnerships and then sales. So if we dig into what that looks like for you right now, obviously, on the marketing side, you run a podcast, I think, is it weekly, Honest E commerce?

Yeah, we publish an episode every week. During the pandemic, we went to twice a week just because it was the only thing we could control. And then actually, as a result of the pandemic, we actually invested more in the podcast and went to a video format as well and really doubled down on what we were doing there. So when we kind of figured all that stuff out for the bonus episodes, we just merged it back together and it's now it's back to weekly.

Makes sense. You guys produce that all in house.

Or using a. I use contractors to help produce it, but it's. Yeah, the whole SOP and all that stuff is in house. I was lucky to have a acquaintance in the industry basically hand me his SOP and says, this is how we do it.

Yep, that makes sense. And then on the content side, what other are you doing? Like a weekly newsletter?

Yeah, so we used to do a lot more content. This is actually a great. That was a great question. So we used to do a video, a newsletter, a video, a blog post, a podcast, and all that would end up in the newsletter every week. And then we did like an inventory, like impact inventory type analysis, and we took a look at everything and we just went like, the best content is obviously the podcast. And so we just stopped doing everything else. And it was just like, we're doubling down on the podcast. 80, 20 rule. Like, just ignored everything else. And so we went all in on the podcast.

That's really cool. What if you break down? Feel free to share as much as you want to here, but in terms of bucket, or be as vague as you want to as well in terms of buckets, of where revenue comes from, the percentage that comes from partnerships versus content marketing versus however else I've assumed. Referrals are probably a big channel for you as well. Working with agencies. What does that look like?

Yeah, I would say that referrals and partnerships are almost the same thing in the world that we play in, because it's a referral from a partner or it's a referral from what have you. But I would say these days it's probably about 50% from partnership referrals, slash referrals in general from existing clients or just people that we know in the industry, which is a healthier split than what it was historically. Historically, it was probably 70ish, maybe, maybe more. Word of mouth is the same thing as a referral, and that's definitely how you get started. You hit up your network and you try to get things going. That's all kind of word of mouth and then referrals from there. But as you grow as an agency, and we understood this early on, that if you are waiting for a lead to end up in your inbox, that's the recipe for disaster. So that's why we went into that content play so early on. And then it just took us a while to realize that the best content play for us was doing the Honest E Commerce podcast. So back to your question. These days, it's about 50% referrals and word of mouth and all that. And then the other 50% is definitely from the content play. Either our content that we're putting out, or it's probably more. It's probably more like heavier skew, maybe 30% from me. Being a guest on other platforms and sharing my knowledge to other audiences.

That's one of the underrated things of building your own platform. And podcasting is with no qualifications beyond the fact that you yourself are a podcaster, you start getting invited into other areas. Um, so it's not that you're not qualified, but just the act of getting out and doing it yourself will open up opportunities. People see, oh, you've got a show. You know, it's always easier to talk with someone who is a podcaster who runs a podcast, because there's some certainty that, hey, this person's thought about some stuff, they will know how to act on air. You know, there's. There's all kinds of things that I think there's some native advantages that sometimes go underlooked. That's not the primary reason to start a podcast, but it's a fringe benefit that I think gets overlooked sometimes.

Yeah, I mean, I am so much better at public speaking. I am so much better at answering answers on the fly. I was going to say I don't say as much, and then I just did it, but I don't say it as much as I used to. So with the podcast itself, I started it over three years ago, and so I've gotten so much better at all this stuff. And through that, our quality has gotten better, our guests have gotten better, and our reach has actually gotten better. With that being said, for the first two and a half years, I think the biggest mistake I made was focusing solely on my podcast and trying to grow that audience, which there's a cheating tip, which is. Or just be an expert and go put yourself in front of other audiences that are bigger than you that have already put in that work. So we started to do that six, eight months ago, getting me out into the world, being a guest on podcast. Funny enough, you asked me to be on this one, but it wasn't like from our outreach, but we're doing outreach for me to get on other ones. And that has actually been a very fruitful endeavor of ours.

That's. That's helpful to hear. Are you using any tools to do that, or are you just making a list and then kind of systematically working through or having a contractor work through and where it makes sense to reach out.

The tools that we use for that specifically. So there's. We have two outreaches, like cold outreach tactics that we have at the agency. They are both email only. We haven't tried anything else because we are getting fine results with just email. So we have cold outreach to brand founders who have them be a guest on our podcast. Because that's my favorite story to tell. Um, it's my favorite type of guest to have. So we built that one out. So we use gmass for our drip flows, and then we use. Historically, Nikki would just kind of like bounce around on the Internet. She'd like, do a lot of stuff on Instagram and just find brand. Find brands that she. You know, we have like a checklist of what we're looking for. But like that at a certain point, she just kind of knew what she was looking for and she was doing it a little bit more manually. And then we actually invested in a subscription to storeleads.net and then I really pruned down what I was looking for in there and I exported a bunch of stores. So we've got stores for days. But so let me talk about that. So you can export, you can get these data lists from all these different sources for whatever the heck you want online, whatever your niche is, that's cool. But you still need to have a human clean it up afterwards or it's going to be garbage results. So Nikki now doesn't have to source ideas for this, but she still takes them. She still double checks everything, makes sure that everything makes sense, and then adds it to a different list that is actually going to start doing all the automation stuff and think. We send about 50 emails a week to new brands to try to get them on the podcast. And then the other outreach is to other podcasts. And the way that I found that information was through a service called Listen Notes paid for that to export the data that I wanted in certain topics. Again, she cleans it up, makes sure that it's still a podcast. That's like a very. People just say they didn't and they go away. But that one actually had to lower it down. I think we only send like 25 a week because I was getting such a good response rate because people are like, I've heard of that guy. Of course you can be on the podcast. And I'm like, I can't do 12 podcasts in one week. I need to calm things down.

Yep, that makes sense. I think that's Listen Notes is a good tip for folks. We haven't had him on yet. I need to have on Andy Cabosso, who is building a company called Postaga, and part of what they do is outreach and searching. And one of the ways that he's built that brand is through cold outreach to podcasts as well. Um, so read a dog food.

So, you know, when you. I'm assuming everyone listening to this has an agency, right? That's like all you guys do over there. But I'm sure you get these ads too. Is like, everyone's like, buy my $8 book about how I build a billion dollar. I buy all of those books because, a, I like to see how the funnels work to reverse reverse engineer them. I don't like. I never. I never, like, go any the next step with some of those coaches because sometimes they're just a little too gimmicky. But I do sit down and read the books because they're easy reads. You can knock it out in an hour because it's like, it looks like it's thick, but it's a font and a bunch of pictures. But I read one of those the other day. Hold on. I think I gave it to my business partner. I can't remember what it was. And if you. I'll try to remember after this and email it so we can put in the show notes. But basically this guy built agencies for. It was basically service businesses. So like his agency would help you get leads if you were a contractor or a plumber. Very certain niches. Right. But in that book, my biggest key takeaway there was just like, cold outreach sucks, but you have to do it. And here are playbooks on how to do it. So that's when I really went in on the cold outreach on email, which was just in the last year of the agency.

Josh Nelson, Seven Figure Agency.

Yeah, that was it. Yeah.

That's awesome. Josh is awesome. He's got a great community. I think they're on our website right now. We're working with them, um, as well.

Small world, isn't it? It is, but yeah, but no, the book was, the book was a interesting read. If you had a service, like a business that helps service businesses like that, it was a, it's a fantastic read for you. Um, but yeah, my, my key takeaway from that was like, you know, you have to have the systems to every business. Well, here's, here's another. Here's like where this leads into the systems that you should have for acquisition to trying to get new customers is you need to have a rock solid, solid partnership program. You have a rock and like in that you also need to have referrals. Then you need to have a rock solid outreach, cold outreach system. And then you just have to be producing content, authoritative content in your niche.

Right, right.

Yeah.

All three of those work in concert together for sure. On the referral side, I'm glad you brought that up again because that's one thing I wanted to go back to. What are some of the things that you've put in place there that have helped? Because obviously anybody selling cold outreach or any service other than referral marketing says, oh, referrals are great when you have them, but you can't control pipeline at all. And I think there's a large, to a large extent that's true, but you actually can influence how many referrals you get from folks by getting some of those systems in place. Is there anything that you guys have found that's been really effective to earn more of those referrals or get more of those referrals to come through from folks who would happily do it for you but may not otherwise?

Yeah. So here's the interesting thing for a, an agency that has a model like Dust, which is like larger project sizes, less clients, so you get into this funny situation where, you know, you're a lot of your partners who you're working with, they have to refer it somewhere regardless, so they don't really care about a kickback. But the way that we try to incentivize things with those partners is just by being top of mind. So we are, I'm all like, you know, again, 80, 20, what are your top partners that are always referring stuff where you get the best, most qualified leads and like, so, like this week we were reaching out to some of our top partners and sending them the T shirt that I'm wearing. Or do you want the hat? Like, you know, it's cool stuff. Like, you know, it's business, they don't really care. But like, I'll take a free T shirt. I like the guys over at Electric Guy. Like, I think that's, that's fine. But then you're top of mind. And so when they get something that comes in that they'll definitely think about you with our clients, what I found, and you'll actually, there's some data to back this up, like 10% of the deal size or just cash in general isn't actually much of a motivator for a lot of people, especially when you're talking about their livelihood and referring friends to like or, you know, acquaintances that they have in the world to work with your business. But what things that do work are, you know, bonuses back to the client for referring, like, hey, if you, you know, give them a kickback that's, you know, tangible for them to use in their business. Like, hey, if you do that, we'll do, you know, we'll do this sort of like mini, mini project for anyone that wants to send something back or we'll make a donation to your charity, a charity of your course or something that I read that was great was actually having it be like a physical, tangible product that's like interesting. Like, so like iPads and phones, you see that all the time to try to just incentivize people. But we just get kind of creative, you know, two, three times a year and just reach out to our clients asking for referrals and, you know, just have some sort of creative offer in there to see what happens.

That's cool. That piece. Somebody did this.

Well.

Speaking of podcast production, I've given him a shout out number of times on the podcast, but Jeremy Wise and The crew at Rise 25, you know, if we got somebody who's looking at starting a podcast and they don't want to do it in house and they want to work with somebody else. Jeremy's one of the folks who will send people to and all their referral stuff is like you go through this form, select the type of gift, not the actual gift, but you answer these different questions. And they shipped out a super nice gift. I'm sure it was not that expensive, but it was cool to get kind of a semi customized gift back. And it's just a creative way to. I had no idea that was going to happen. But it's a.

There's a good book to read on the topic of gifting called giftology and some key takeaways. There were money and food are terrible gifts and you might disagree with me and that's fine. But in the business context, you should read the book if that's a model that you want to go after I've seen the book.

I haven't read the whole book. Why do they say food's not a good gift?

Because you don't know someone's dietary restrictions. Right.

Right.

So if you guess wrong, it's very detrimental.

Yeah, don't send me seafood. I'll probably pass it up. But to everyone else that's probably a great gift.

Yeah. And then wine is often considered like a good gift, but there's a lot of people that don't drink. You know what I mean? So it's, it's, it's just, it's the more risk versus reward.

Right. Makes sense.

But it. Thoughtful gift. The purpose of the book is to talk about thoughtful gifting. So you know, just do a little research. You can figure out what you're. What you're. Especially if you're doing it from like try from a sales and trying to win business perspective.

Right.

You know, a little bit of research can go a long way.

How do you guys structure the podcast right now you said you went to video. How do you thought through kind of the format of what those look? I mean, is it sim similar to. Has it always been similar to this format where it's interview based? Did it start out as an interview show?

Yeah, it was always interview based when I first got started. And this is how anyone starts podcasts, which is the perfectly fine model, which is just get started and interview smart people that you know that semi related to what you're doing. That's how we started. And then since then I have pivoted more into where I wanted to be in the first place, which was interviewing brand founders and getting their story. So originally what I really wanted to be was basically how I Built this for Shopify stores. That's what I wanted it to be. And now it's finally getting there. So I'm happy. I'll have experts on every once in a while. Here's a sidebar here. Co marketing with your partners and being top of mind with your partners by having them on your podcast is another great way to get them to always be thinking about you. But I digress. Most of my episodes now are with brand founders, right? And then the process that you asked, my process is this. People will reach out, or I'll reach out to them. If they seem decently qualified, I'll just, like, skip them to the next step, which is an onboarding form. So this is something that is usually a hiccup at times is like you don't get a headshot from a person or their bio or their Twitter handle or whatever, and you ask for that after the recording, and then they get busy and they never give it to you. And now you have a wasted piece of content. Whereas if you just force them to do this the first time, you'll have it and then the content will come out. So we have the form first and then scheduling, and then it gets dumped into Basecamp, and then first there's a light edit from the producer to get it kind of bound to what it's going to be. Then the copywriter comes in, and then the producer and copywriter work together on, like, what are the snippets going to be, what are the social assets going to be, what's the pool title and all that stuff. And then, you know, they publish it out and all that jazz.

Yeah, that makes sense. That's awesome, because we're recording this here. The beginning of Q4, when this goes out, this will be towards the end of Q4, 2021. In terms of milestones, looking forward here at 2022, what are some of the things that you guys are focused on building out? You mentioned kind of scaling out more of the team as you guys grow. Are there other major milestones?

Yeah, so milestones. So there's been two things that I've talked about on podcasts, like this one or any other caucus I've been guesting on over the last year that are now lies. So I'll clear the air on this show. One I used to say, go to electriceye IO, hit connect, and you'd be connected with me. I'll be the guy you talk to. That is now a lie. We're looking to hire a team member to get that off my plate. That's part of growing. I have to stop doing that. So like you said, growth of team members is something that we're looking forward to be doing next year. It's definitely going to be a pain point for the next 12 to 16 months as we grow the team and re establish swim lanes. So that's something that we're going to be doing. And then another lie was. Wait, what was the other one? Oh, we would always say that we only have about a dozen clients at a time. We're probably going to kick that up to 18 very quickly and then maybe up to 24 after that. As we expand the team, we will have more capacity.

Makes sense. I think you'd mentioned to me at one point that you only take on. I forget what you call them, like design sprints or something, but basically.

Oh yeah. Yes. So our, our discovery, we just branded it to make it sound cooler, but it's basically paid discovery. It's called a strategy sprint is what we call it. So.

And I think you said so you only would take on one of those at a time and they'd move people through. But it sounds like you're saying, I don't think I realized this before. You sell that as a one off like you buy the.

Yeah, it's like a foot in the door offer which is a great way to think about getting the relationship started with anybody. Yeah. So here's something that took me a long time to realize and this actually is from Jason Swank who's a good like consultant in the E Commerce. Not E Commerce like in the agency space. But basically you gotta have a foot in the door offer A your sales process. All the upfront work needs to make sense and need to be able to show value in what you're doing for your client. But then you like chop off just the beginning part of it as a paid engagement where everyone has the opportunity to walk away afterwards. And then your guarantee on what that is can be whatever you want it to be. And that's a whole. Guarantees are a whole other conversation. So ours is like just the discovery element of architecting the solution together and making sure everyone's on the same page with what that looks like. So we call it a strategy sprint. Then from there, if it's not going to be a project but it's going into a retainer, we do a retainer trial period that is three months and then after that we will have a conversation about either going month to month or annual for a discount. Right.

Makes sense. The walk away from that. Let's say it is a. A web project. You're. The core thing that we're focusing on first is Shopify. Is there a hard takeaway or deliverable at the end of it, I. E. Sitemap or site architecture or even a wireframe of a page?

Yeah. They're getting a strategy in the form of a statement of work, which nothing's stopping them from printing that out and taking it to someone, some other agency. Sure. But we've done all this work together. If they are getting it done, nine times out of 10, like, we're moving forward. Right.

That makes sense.

But you know, the reason to do that is like, once you get into the scoping phase and like everybody on the team's involved and like you're now getting into their actual code base and looking at their product architecture and really investigating and making sure that your proposed solution is a solution that will work for the project. Rarely, but it does happen. You go, this is going to be way more complex than anybody anticipated. And now it's like, okay, you have to go back to the drawing board. You have to re establish timelines and budgets and sometimes it just isn't, you know, it isn't going to work anymore. And it's like, okay, well, that sucks. But at least we didn't like get into some crazy big agreement before realizing it was going to suck. Right?

Yep. That makes sense. On the back end of website projects, I'd assume, obviously you've got a retainer on the marketing work that you guys are doing. Is there a separate retainer that sticks around on the website side or do you just build those into one single retainer on the back end where you're getting your website maintenance and any updates made as part of what the retainer looks like?

That's a great question. So we have currently on that side of the business, a building a website is a very fluid and creative process. And if it's not in the statement of work or it's not in the design, it is not a deliverable you're going to get. But whoa, boy, there's going be a lot of things that people ask for during that process and you got to be really rigid about it because you're protecting your profit and you didn't agree to it. You don't need to be nice. But we just throw all that stuff onto a wish list and we keep track of all of it. Then after the fact, we offer what's basically called a flex fund retainer and it's. We'll just tackle the small stuff on an ongoing basis and it's X amount of hours a month and we'll tackle those types of things. It's more on the design development side. Oftentimes it's a lot of just straight up consultant. They'll have questions about stuff and it's like a peace of mind and insurance type sits for the client as well. But through that, we end up building out other crazy big projects with them because they'll be like, well, there's this thing that's going on in our business and we're already so ingrained in it that we know about it. And we're like, well, we could just do all this crazy cool stuff together. We'll do that. So there's the Flex Fund retainer is what we offer, kind of the design development side of things. And then in the spring, actually, we're going to be implementing, we're going to be testing our CRO retainer with a few of our clients before we really go public with it.

Yep, that makes sense. I feel like we're about to see a huge uptick in CRO agencies. I was talking with an agency today who's trying to build it out. We had Justin Christiansen from Conversion Fanatics on the podcast maybe a month ago talking through what they do from a CRO perspective. But it seems, and Spiro is kind of the offshoot of the CXL Institute, but it seems like there's a number of agencies who are. I mean, it's been around for a handful of years now, but there's a number of agencies who are just kind of picking up.

Yeah. So remember when at the beginning of the podcast I was like, our clients call us Shopify experts, but we consider ourselves like growth strategists. Another thing is CRO is a very broad stroke term at this point, that doesn't even mean what it means anymore in the perception of clients in our industry. What they want is KPI optimization. Really, it's not just conversion rate. There's other things you can do. Because at the end of the day, it's just Socratic questioning. Ask why, why, why? They're just going to be like, we want to make more money. And you're like, cool. There's all these other ways to make more money in there. But the split testing element of that and the thinking through it and testing and, you know, all that stuff, that's the process behind what CRO is you can do for any KPI.

Yep. Yeah, for sure. There's a. There's a huge opportunity there. There's a handful of other metrics that I think we'll see over the next couple years. More agencies just build offers around each of those where it's not just say, the front one, the easy one to see, the one that we could go into your Google Analytics or your CRM and look at relatively quickly is conversion rate, but there's a whole nother segment of those businesses.

Yeah, I mean, I. That stuff is exciting to me because it then you get to be creative and strategic and strategically think about how to solve problems that kind of don't exist. But it's like always, it's like tinkering and iterating is like what I love to do. So I'm really excited to get that going.

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, we go a lot farther, Chase, but we're getting close to time, so I want to make sure I can get you out of here on time. Honest E Commerce, I think, has its own site. Righthonestecommerce.co. if I'm remembering right.

Yes, co. Because the guywillnotsellme.com Nice.

Good move. Let it blow up in value and then go get it down the road. And then Electric Eye. Um, is. That's right.

IO because that. The guy that had that one wanted $20,000. And we're like, nah.

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Gil, anywhere else we should point people?

You know, the. The YouTube. I personally like when podcasts have a video element to them. So all of our podcasts are actually on YouTube and it's just honest e commerce YouTube channel. And actually now on our YouTube channel are actually two. Our courses are completely free, so we actually have a free course on Facebook and Instagram advertising that you can check out on our YouTube channel and a free course on Klaviyo, like setting up your Klaviyo account the correct way.

Awesome.

Cool.

We'll make sure all that stuff ends up in the show notes then. It's been really fun. I appreciate you coming on, Chase.

Yeah, dude, thanks for having me.