The True Story Behind 'Same Kind of Different as Me'

It's Billy Hallowell. Welcome to Pure Talk. We cover a variety of topics here: faith, politics, we cover pop culture and plenty more. I'm here today with Pure Flix CEO Greg Gudorf. We also have a very special guest today, Ron Hall, the author of Same Kind of Different as Me. How are you guys doing today?

Oh, we're just doing dandy here in Texas.

And it's good in San Diego.

Before we dive in, and I'm here in New York, so we're spanning the entire country here. This is great. Before we dive in today, as we normally do, Greg, would you like to lead us in prayer?

Yeah, sure, Billy. Thank you. Father, thank you for bringing us together today. Help our discussions reach many people as they search for ways to embrace our culture in a way that's in keeping with your will. We ask for your wisdom to flow through us and a lively conversation to occur. And we ask this in the name of Jesus, our Lord. Amen.

Amen. So thank you, Ron, for joining us today. I think we've got a lot to talk about here. We obviously have the film that's out, Same Kind of Different as Me, and your book. You know, I remember years ago I was working at Cru. It's now called Cru Inner City. It used to be Here's Life Inner City. And I remember the book. Being very popular with a lot of our missionaries and having a big impact on people. And so, you know, I guess just for me to start, and I know quite a bit about the book and the film, but, you know, I'd love for you to give us sort of your elevator pitch for those who aren't familiar about the central message and what you have to offer there so they can get a little sense of what the projects are all about.

Well, I think the central message of our book is really that You know, we are all different from other people. We are unique individuals, but God created us all. And so even though we may find someone that we believe is totally unlike us, you know, if you examine the hearts, we are all, you know, the same kind of different, and we can work together to overcome obstacles, problems. We can, you You know, our movie illustrates, and our book does too, that it's really not the color of our skin that divides us. It's the condition of our hearts. And so if you get the condition of our heart, we get those conditions of our hearts right, I mean, we can join with everyone. We can together make a difference. We can change the world, you know, one act of kindness at a time, you know, with the right kind of heart. So that's really, I think the overwhelming message of our film is that, you know, you listen to God. If God prompts you to do something like he did in my wife with this dream, and she believed that the dream was from God, and so, you know, she was faithful to follow through to see if it really— if this man that she had the dream about really was a poor wise man who would change our lives and our city. And I think that our film illustrates that beautifully as well as the book.

Ron, I love the subtitle on the book, A Modern-Day Slave, an International Art Dealer, and the Unlikely Woman Who Bound Them Together. Can you tell us a little about that?

Well, you know, I was a very arrogant, self-centered art dealer. I'm not proud of that. I was actually unfaithful to my wife. She forgave me, gave me, showed me Christ-like forgiveness by throwing my sin as far as the east is from the west, never to bring it up again. And so I made a vow that I would do anything she asked me the rest of our lives together for that kind of Christ-like forgiveness. Denver was what I would consider a modern-day slave. He had grown up on a plantation in Louisiana. He had never been given the opportunity to go to school. He was not really ever paid by the man. He said he seldom ever saw any folding money. He got credit at the man's store for doing the work. 6 days a week, and you know, but during cotton picking season, it was 7 days a week. But you know, he was, he ended up in prison. He had no education. He had run out of hope. But he had also, as a young innocent teenage boy on the plantation, been roped and dragged by the Ku Klux Klan for helping a white woman change a flat tire. Back in where he grew up, In Louisiana, the Blacks were not allowed to talk to white women. And so by asking her if she needed help, they said he was bothering her. And so after they dragged him behind a horse for that crime of talking to a white woman, they made him promise he would never speak to a white woman again or look a white woman in the eye. So the unlikely woman was a godly woman on a mission from God to— because she believed she had heard that this man was pore wise, and by his wisdom, we would— our lives would be changed, our city would be changed. She thought he would bring revival to our city. And so he was not looking for any friends, and especially a white woman, because he had kept that vow not to speak to any white women. And so at 62 years old, when this pushy little white lady comes up and tries to get in his face telling him that God has a calling on his life, and he's gonna live to see it. He wasn't ready to hear that because he had lost all hope. In fact, he used to be angry at God when he would wake up in the mornings and see that his toes would still wiggle in the dumpster where he slept and knowing that he had to endure another day on earth.

When you— I mean, this story, it's an incredible story and hearing the different elements of it, it reads and sounds very much like a novel. It's a real-life event And I think we've, you know, where we are right now culturally in this country, there's so much division. It's not just racial. I mean, it's across the board and it seems to be worsening. And there's a real difficulty, I think, for people to engage with those who they disagree with or they presume are different. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes chatter. There's not a lot of open discussion. There's a lot of vitriol. I'm probably preaching to the choir here. I think we all know this. And here you are, you know, almost a decade, I believe, after the book came out, you have the movie now. Do you find it coincidental at all? And what do you think people can take away from this message in the film in light of what I just described?

Well, the people that have seen the film, which, you know, it's doing very disappointingly at the box office, you know, we anticipated this to be a breakout film. Like Heaven Is for Real or The Blind Side. You know, this is a great true story, one of the greatest true God stories ever told of 3 people trying to make a difference. But, you know, we believed and we have heard from the people that have seen it that this is maybe one of the greatest films they've ever seen. They rate it 5 stars, give Jaemin Honsu an Oscar nod. They believe that it's the most important film for our time that America needs to see because of the message that it It's a message of reconciliation. It's a message of hope. It's a message of friendship between the races. I mean, we throw all of these poverty and wealth and the most extreme scenarios in life, we throw them together in this blender and we mix them all up and we pour out a message of hope for our nation. And, you know, for some people to tell us, we've heard that, I've not talked to anybody, but I've heard through others that some Christians, some ministers and churches think that this is not a Christian film because we didn't give the, the, uh, the, uh, 4 spiritual laws. We didn't present those clearly from a pulpit in the, in the theater. And, uh, and I, I don't get it that they don't see that a woman being the hands and feet of Christ on the street to the least of these is not Christian when, uh, you know, when she's showing the love of Christ. So I would like to hear if there's any pastor today that has seen this film and thinks that it's not Christian, I would like to hear that. If there's any church that feels that it's not Christian and worthy of being promoted and endorsed by Christians, I'd like to hear from people because I'm being told that, but I have not been told that myself by anyone. I've just been told by many people it's the greatest film they've ever seen, so.

You know, Billy, this is that division you're talking about, right? I mean, we seem to have this divide even within the Christian family. So, Ron, what kind of things are you tackling now? We know that movies are very hard to predict in the box office, and we also know that sometimes a movie will come out slow and then it'll just explode, either on screen or in the follow-through DVDs and other things. So the messages do get out there. Good messages, good stories do survive. So take heart in that. It's all in the right timing. But what kind of things are you doing now to help raise awareness and viewership for yourself?

Well, you know, I've contacted pastor friends of mine like Jack Graham here in Dallas that pastors the largest, probably, Baptist church in Texas at Prestonwood Baptist, who is a huge fan of this story. And he's helping us get the word out to pastors and to other people. O.S. Hawkins, who heads up, you know, a huge organization of pastors around America, is actually part of this film, plays the pastor at the memorial service. And so he's helping us get the word out. They cannot imagine the people that have told us that this is not Christian film. It's laughable. It's laughable to people, you know, people to say it's not, and not, and the churches aren't supporting it because of that. That's just an insane proposition to that.

I can't actually take Well, you know, I think too that there's a lot of, you know, obviously there's a lot of divide, right? And there's a lot of bitterness that for some reason happens, you know, with that divide, even in the Christian church, right? Inside the church, people who have debates over how to say things, how to do things, how to present ideas, how to— and I think because film, and this is— and now Greg, you would know better than I would. This is my theory as somebody who's watching it outside, but I sometimes cover it. Is that there's still a lot of testing going on for what is going to work with faith audiences, but also how to activate them, you know? And I think, you know, the way that stories are told still in the Christian world, it's really developing still. And so it's been interesting to see. I mean, who's to say that this very same movie 5 years from now wouldn't have been a number one hit? I think the audience is still adjusting. People are still discovering these projects are out there. And they're like, oh wow, I don't have to hate Hollywood because there is good stuff out there, right? So I think that we're in the middle of that process still, and it's a messy process a little bit.

Yeah, I think that's right.

Oh, there was something we intentionally did not put in the film because we didn't want to point the finger at Christians. But my friend Denver, one of the first questions he ever asked me, this homeless man, when I sat next to him on the curb, he asked me, he said, are you one of them Christians? And I said, yes, why do you think I'm down here helping? He said, "Oh, hey, now you're not helping anybody but yourself feel better about yourself. You think we can't put some spaghetti on the plate and feed ourselves?" He said, "You're not helping." He said, "You're blessing us and we like blessings." But he said, "What bothers us about you Christians is we want to know why all you Christians worship one homeless man on Sunday, then turn your back on the first one you see on Monday." He said, "You know, you never know whose eyes God is watching you out of, and it ain't gonna be your preacher or your Sunday school teacher." He said, "It might be a fellow like me." He said, "It ain't me, but it might be a fellow that looks like me, and God's checking you out to see what kind of Christian you really are." And you know what's odd is yesterday I received a phone call. A lady got my phone number. She ran me down. She saw the film. Somebody gave her the money to see a film, our film. She's been on the streets for 1 year here about 15 miles north of me. And she said, "I attend this church. I live in my car and I attend this church, and I've been on their prayer list for a year to help me find an apartment." home. And she said, I'm faithful to the church, uh, you know, and, uh, and they're nice to me. But she said, after one year, I have to move on from this church because they continue to pray for me, but no one has helped me find an apartment or a room or anything else. I'm still sleeping in my car. But she said, I appreciate the prayer. She said, I'm, I'm a Christian woman too, but, you know, I would think after one year that maybe you know, someone could have helped me find an apartment. So I'm now reaching out to you. And I said, absolutely, you know, you will have one by this weekend. And so that's what we're doing today. You know, it's— you have to be the feet and hands of Christ. It's good to pray, but you got to get off your knees and get to doing something about it. You know, my friend Denver used to say, there's way too many Bible studies and not enough Bible doings. He said, because, you know, people like him didn't know how to study. He asked me, are all these people in these Bible studies just sitting around studying, or is anybody out there doing. He said, because I'm tired of going to Bible studies because I don't know how to study, but if somebody wants to invite me to a Bible doing, you tell them to call me and I'm gonna show up.

Action is the key, isn't it? Without a doubt. And I know, Ron, you've been for quite some time now, almost 2 decades, uh, very passionate about this and the way that you're driving it. And I understand you've raised over $100 million to help address homelessness.

Well, I'd say yes, Greg. I have helped raise, you know, by telling our stories maybe 1,000 times in theaters and auditoriums and TV shows, programs like today, on blogs, but certified fundraisers where we go in for missions. You know, just for our own mission alone in Fort Worth, Texas, we've helped raise nearly, well, $34.5 million to build the dream mission, the mission that Debbie had the dream about. And just recently they got another gift because of the momentum that's going there of $13.5 million to build a supportive, uh, low-income housing for homeless families or near-homeless families. So right there, just in one city, $47.5 million at our ground zero mission. And I can tell you many other missions that I've raised millions of dollars for. So I don't know, it may be even far greater than that. But not a penny of it came through me. It goes directly to the mission that I go out and do that. Because people think, oh, you raised $100 million, you must be really rich by now. I think taking 10, 15% of that. Well, you know what? I am very next to homeless too. I poured my heart and finances in for 10 years into this film. And, um, and, and, and I am basically, uh, you know, now I'm not asking anybody to feel sorry for me, but I'm just saying it's just not what it is. People think that I'm a wealthy guy and why don't I give to the homeless? I do every day give to the homeless.

Well, let me ask you this, because you've just said you've poured a lot of resources and time into this movie and it's a very important movie and it's gotten very good reviews. I mean, I'm reading some of the reviews that from the Hollywood side, it's not common that films get— Christian films get a lot of good reviews.

And that's— we're thankful for that.

Yeah, no, it's good, right? So with that being said, what for you was the most rewarding part of the process of making the film? You know, when you look back at it, because it's a tough thing to have your life and your experience be turned into a movie. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Well, you know, my life was ugly. I mean, I am embarrassed. I hate seeing the first 10 minutes of this film and seeing who I was. Before God and Debbie in Denver got a hold of me and changed the arc of my character and repainted the canvas of my life. I mean, I am so embarrassed for my children, for my grandchildren, friends to see who I was. But, you know, it is an important part of the story because if my wife had not given me this Christlike forgiveness, I would have been off. I would have broken up a family. I would have left my father and everybody. I would have been in a whole other city. With a whole nother life that would not be honoring to God. And, uh, and so that is why it's— I'm thankful, uh, it's painful to tell this story. It's painful for me personally, but also, uh, I wanted to just to say that I feel so honored to be able to tell the story of a godly woman who was the feet and hands of Christ, of a man who had a calling on his life, but he didn't— he didn't know it because no one had ever shown him any love. No one after 25 years had even asked him his name on the streets. No one knew his name. But here was a man full of wisdom just waiting for an act of kindness, and an act of kindness completely changed his life. It changed our city, and now we want to change America and the world with this message of that an act of kindness is the beginning of something really great, and there's no shoreline to the ripple effect of kindness.

So, well, Rod, I love that, and we need kindness now, I think, more than Maybe not more than ever, but more than we've needed it in a very long time in this country, I think, and in this world. So I appreciate you coming on today. For those of you watching, make sure you tune in next week for more Pure Talk.