🔥100TH EPISODE: The 3 Strategies Actually BANKING Results in 2025's Brutal Market with Hanif Khan

Everyone, welcome to the hundredth episode of the Deal Finder Corner. So could you believe, you know, it's been more than two years that we started with this and we got every speaker you need to cover every topic you need in terms of what skill you need to be a successful property investor. We covered every strategy there is out there and it's been really a blast. You know, and I know some of you have been attending many of these and you've built a lot of know capital and knowledge, experience and confidence around these calls and I, and we've had awesome feedback from that. So I'm really, really pleased, you know. So this has been your weekly property talk show brought to you by Propsfilter, hosted by myself, Guillaume Black, your favorite Frenchman and actually this nickname came out of one of these calls, right some a couple of years ago now. So you know CEO and co founder of PropsFilter. So you all know PropsFilter, the UK's highest rated platform to find deals and we know we are on a mission to empower you guys, our property investor and members to found thousands of deals thanks to the Prop Tutor Blueprint. The purpose with this Deal Finder Corner has always been to give you more, give you the best of the available resources about what's out there in terms of inviting expert guests who will share with you the latest and most current strategies, tactics, secrets about what actually works right now in terms of finding and making deals and, and the reality of systemizing and running your high performance business in properties. So we've huge, huge pleasure for this huge milestone of the 100th episode of the Final Corner and for a bit of a celebration here and to celebrate in style, I've got no other than, you know, the man, the myth, the legend, my very good friend, mentor and business partner, Hanif Khan that I've kept for myself all this time, right. So I've, you know, kept it for our little inner circle group and, and for myself and could you believe not Adimando did Final Corner before I was keeping it for special occasion. So if you don't know Hanif, he's been more than 20 years in this game done, you know, more than 500 deals under his belt. You know, he's very much a property veteran, a deal making machine and the mentor of the mentors and really, really proud to be involved in property for a while. He's been involved in all sorts of businesses in property, in care, in retail and all things to do with rapid scale. And he's helped literally hundreds and thousands of people directly or indirectly in the property space to scale their deal making and property portfolio. So in this game changing episode we're going to get Hanif to pull back the curtains on the exact strategies that he's using his portfolio companies are using right now in today's property market. So there'll be no fluff, no theory, just per tactical things straight to the thing that actually works right now. So really, really pleased to be in conversation with Hanif just now. So in this episode we'll share about the best cash flow strategy right now that you can use to generate income, monthly income straight away, the best ways to multiply your pots and lump sum strategies so you can bank profit, multiply your potential and then finally how you can go and create long term wealth with different types of ways you can stack assets basically. So very, very pleased to hearing more of you Hanif, which I know you are in Japan, so it's like stupid hours of the day right now. So you'll tell us more about that. So please everyone join me and give Mr. Hanif Khandel Massir virtual props filter. Welcome. Welcome Hanif. Over to you.

Thank you everyone. Thank you for the intro. Guillem. Yes, I am in Japan. So let me, let me break down a little bit about what Guillem sort of told you. So what I'm gonna, what I really want you guys to get out of today is I want you to understand what is the best cash flow strategy for you. What's the best capital appreciation strategy? That's lump sums. Now quickly. And what's the best long term capital appreciation strategy for you? And I'm going to go through a few different strategies before I tell you which is my favorite in each of those, in each of those places because I think you need to understand why some are better and why some aren't. Otherwise, you know, it's easy for me to just say, oh, I think this is a great strategy and, and here's why, without explaining why some of the others can and can't work. So let's start with the first thing. If you're looking for, and a lot of people are in this situation, you know, you want some cash flow now. So you want enough money to replace your job, you want to replace that income, whether it's 3,000, 5,000, 10,000, whatever it is. And your whole idea is how do I replace this income in a way that's easy. Once I've got there, then I've got the headspace and the brain capacity to think about what I'm going to do next. So, you know, to be clear, I was in the same situation when I first started, had a job in corporate and I needed, you know, 4K a month in order to leave my job and be able to concentrate full time on property. And, you know, I had to figure out what's the best way to do that. So let me take you through how I did it and then you can think about how you did it too. So the first thing I did was I looked at and worked out if I need to make four grand a month, that means I need X number of buy to lets. So we're talking 20 years ago, right? So buy to lets are not the correct strategy, or I don't believe they are anymore. However, I'm explaining how the cash flow system works for you, right? So I needed to replace my income. The, the average cash flow in Birmingham at that time on a buy to let Property was about £400, which meant I needed 10 buy to lets to replace my income and allow me to leave my job. So unless I had the average property back then was probably around, let's say 50 grand, they were a bit cheaper, but 50,000. So 50,000, I needed 10%, really 15. So I needed, I needed seven and a half thousand times 10, which was 75000 pounds to make, to get 10 properties. So that those were my constraints. I needed 4,000 and seven and a half thousand or 75000 in total. Seven and a half thousand for each bite alert. Right, and what. So, so that's pretty much what I did. I went out, I bought a property, fixed it up, sold it, used that money as a lump sum to then go out and buy 10 more properties and you know, and then just kept recycling the cash. And that worked as a strategy. Okay, so what I'm trying to explain to you is strategies work at different times for different people and it depends on the cycle you're in. Right now we're in a cycle where buy to let will not work, not in the same way. So you have to think about another cash flow strategy. But that's a strategy that worked really easily for me and within a year I'd replaced my income and had left my job. Once I made the decision, interestingly, do you know what, I know how many years it was whilst I was thinking about making the decision to leave. At least four years, five years probably. And I kept trying to decide whether or not, you know, I'm going to do this, I'm going to go off and do property, I'm going to do something. I want to leave my job. I just didn't have a, I didn't do anything about it. So once I did, within a year, within, well to be honest, within nine months I'd, I'd got to a position where I could leave my job. So anyway, coming back to what's going to work right now from a cash flow perspective and today the first thing you've got to think about and realize is what buy selects don't work. There isn't enough cash flow. You know, once you paid your interest, your taxes, all the costs, etc. There isn't enough money left over to make them work as a, as a pure cash flow strategy. So what we're doing. So I'll share with you what our portfolio companies are doing and what we're investing in, what we're looking for from a cash flow perspective. Perspective. So we're looking for properties which have the ability to be let to supported living type companies. And a supported living company is basically. So there's two types of companies, I'm going to go through both. But the first sector that we're aiming for is companies where we can relet the property to supported living and a higher living allowance. So we get the higher rate living allowance. What that means is I'm able to give it to a, a supported living provider at. So typically in Birmingham you'll get sort of a thousand to twelve hundred pound for a basic ex council three bedroom property. Three bedroom, two reception property I can get. So, so let's take you through that. So there's three bedrooms, two reception rooms. So typically they go for as a buy to let, they'll go for between 1000 and 1200 rent a month. However, supported living companies will get the room rate and they get the higher room rate for each of those for each of the rooms. So they get them for the three rooms plus one of the reception rooms. So they're basically getting the higher rate for four and that can typically be 900 pound a month per room. So they're getting three and a half to four and a half thousand pounds for that same house that I would only normally be able to buy to let at a rate of 1200 say. So they've got a much better cash flow. So if I give my property to them they generally are willing to give me more money than a normal buy to let. Plus more importantly for me is I get zero headache, zero hassle. They take the hassle off my hands, they fix the repairs, they worry about maintenance, they do all of the things that I need to do and they give me a long term contract, three years, five years. So from a cash flow point of view that's a great strategy. Okay, so it's a great cash, cash flowing strategy. But there's one problem with it which is you've got to have all these properties and you've got to own them. Otherwise you know, how are you going to be able to generate the cash if you don't have a 100k in the bank right to buy that first property and get it fixed up or second property or whatever it is. So the way around that is you use a strategy called a lease option and all you do is you, you, you structure your deals by going out and finding lease properties. So you lease a property from a, from an owner, from a landlord and that property you then give to a supported living company. So the way to think about this is everyone will have heard of rent to rent. So you rent a property from a, from a landlord and then you re rent that property to a corporate let, which is basically what you're doing with in this circumstance. The difference being here and the main thing why rent to rent doesn't work is why I'm trying to tell you a few different strategies. Rent to rent doesn't work and the reason it doesn't work generally, not always, but generally it doesn't work is because you're renting it for 1200 and you're trying to get 50, 1500, but you're responsible for all the bills, you're responsible for other things, voids and all of a sudden that difference in your profit has disappeared or you're going to rent it and then you're going to do a service accommodation style business in there. And again you've rented it for 1200 expecting to get 3,3000, but you can't rent the room, you've got problems with the furniture etc and all your profit disappears. So these are the typical problems that rent to rent type properties have. With this strategy that I'm talking about, what you do is you lease the property from the landlord and you lease it to this supported living company and it becomes a lease to lease style strategy. So the great thing about that then is you do not have any of the, you don't have any of the underlying problems of what happens if there's maintenance. What happens is this and the reason for that is whatever lease. I've agreed with the landlord over here, so if I've agreed to fix his boiler, I've agreed to fix his garden Fence. I agree exactly the same lease with the, with the corporate Supported Living Company so that now they are responsible for the boiler or the fence or whatever. So any costs or any other things are mitigated. They are done by them too. And I just take the money in the middle. So if I've agreed to rent it from the landlord for £1,000 and I've agreed to give it to the supported living company for 1500 I just get 500 every month. And they are keen for these properties in the right areas. You know some areas have higher demand than others. Generally countryside areas don't have as many as higher demand. There is some but generally not as high a demand. Generally two three bed houses have more demand than one bed flats. But again that depends where you are. But in general and it and it works as a strategy in a sense strategy that we are actively following and implementing in and around Birmingham. If you know and, and it. And works and it's easy, it's an easy way to start building up some cash flow so that you can then feel comfortable to leave your job. Now what I would say to you is, you know, for me I'm very risk averse and this allows you to be very risk averse because all I'm doing is I'm taking a lease from a landlord and I'm giving a lease to a corporate let. I would structure the deal in such a way that I can walk away from that first lease. So I'd have a, a break clause which lets me leave. So for example, if I had a three year lease with the landlord that I'm going to pay them a thousand pound a month, I'd have a three year break clause which meant for whatever reason if I couldn't rent that property anymore I could give it back to the landlord, give them their 3 months break clause which means the most I've lost is three grand on that deal. Okay. Now obviously in most cases I'm not expecting that to happen but that's covering my risk. So the great thing about this strategy is that the risk is so low and it's so easy to. From a. For most people to go out and do this in a. The hardest part is finding the supported living companies but there are lots of ways to, to do that and to find them. But ultimately it's ringing. You know you have to. Those of you who are older will see that this is the old style phone rather than the new one where you talking like that. But I'm still doing this. I'm quite old but you know, it's ringing people and ringing the, ringing the supporting living companies and asking them what are you looking for? Where are the properties that you want right now? You will find landlords willing to give them easily because they like the idea of not having to worry about, you know, maintenance, about voids, etc. They like that idea. The difficult thing is finding the supportive living companies that want that property right then. And there's. So that's my favorite cash flow strategy at the moment. And I think it's something that anyone could do, anyone who's interested in, you know, starting out in property or building a, a portfolio of properties that they can build cash flow from. So rental properties. In, in essence, the, the big difference between this and rent to rent is this is you do the one work once and you forget about it. You know, I do, I do the deal with the landlord, I do the deal with the, the supported living company and I forget about that deal and I keep getting paid every month for the next three years, five years, however long that contract is with a rent to rent, I'm always still in the middle of that. I'm still managing that property. And what I am really is a glorified letting agent. If I'm doing a rent to rent strategy, which is why I do lease to lease. Okay, so that's my cash flow strategy.

A couple of questions, a couple of questions on that. Do you know, you know, with the conversations with the providers, how many properties are you expected to have in your bag, you know, for them to want to work with you? It's a question from loving them.

Yeah, good. Good question. Okay, so we own a care, a care provider in Birmingham. So I own my own care company that is doing a supported living company. So we, we do the actual care as well separately as well as renting to other care providers. So when we're looking for, for something, or at least when we used to look, we generally buy our own now. But when we're looking for something, what we, what if the, if the landlord's got one property, it's the right property. I'm happy. I don't care. There is. Or if the person who's supplying you the property has got one property. So it's quite normal to have middlemen in this and care companies understand that and they, they, you know, they don't care. They are willing to pay a fee for it. If you've got the right property, they will take it. You do not need to have 20, 30, 50, obviously if you have more, I want to deal with you more. Right. Because I think you're going to give me lots. But even if you've got one property that fits the needs that I have, I'm 100% ready to deal with you. And that's what you'll find. Most care companies are like, awesome.

Next question was from David. How to manage the timing to make sure the both leases start in the same time so that they are like really like back to back in a way and wondering if you could be let down by a sporty living company. And then you're left with a liability of having to basically fulfill your own lease, but you've got no one much, you know, matched in front to do the care side.

Yeah, another good point. So first of all, remember I told you to have the break clause. But even when you're structuring these deals the way the landlord wants to do have this deal, they want a supported living company. Their big problem is they can't find supported living companies. They, they don't know who to call, who, you know, there's no, there's no easy way to find them. So if you've done the hard work and figured that out, they want to do the deal. So you would say to them, look, I found this. These two supported living companies, this one's willing to pay you this. They're going to house these kind of people. This one's paying you this. And they're going to house these kind of people. So homeless, someone else might be saying, so these might say homeless people. This one might say ex offenders from a prison, whichever it is. Right. And they'll pay different amounts depending on who they are. So once you had, once they had that the. Sorry, bear with me one second. Bear with me once. Sorry. The kids are making a lot of racket in the other room. I. We're in this Japanese house. We wanted to get one of these ones with these slidy doors and unfortunately there's no insulation control. Yeah, zero insulation. It's beautiful, but there's no insulation.

Hear?

Everyone in the next room, stay quiet please, guys. Okay, so what was I. Yeah, so.

How do you make them back to back and start in the same time? Yeah.

Okay, so the best, easiest way to back, to back them is really. So first of all, the landlord's really interested and wants to do the deal. The care provider is usually interested and also wants to do the deal. I always make sure I've got two care providers who are sort of competing with one another and are both interested in, in the deal. I will structure the deal. In such a way that the date that I sign this contract is the same date that they signing their contract so that there's no liability for me to fall into. You know, I've signed this contract and I haven't got this. So I have this contract signed from the landlord ready, have this contract signed from them. Once I've gotten both, I then sign them and send them back to each of them. So, you know, I've not got no risk. And that's how you should be doing it. And both parties will be happy with that arrangement. Okay? Was that clear? Guillaume, do people. So sign the contract with the care company. Sign the contract or get them to sign the contract. Sorry. So the care company sends you a signed contract. The the landlord sends you a signed contract. You now have both contracts in place ready with the same dates. And then you can sign the contracts and send them back. If you've structured it that way, you can also structure the deal where you just introduce the two parties and they sign the contract. So depending on how you've structured it.

I will find, you know, we had the conference. I'll do a screenshot of the step by step thing you did. I'll find it and put it in the chat.

Okay. Is there any more questions on this bit or.

Yeah, sorry, I'm lost in a folder. I'm looking for some stuff. So Paul was asking about conversion online, apparently about something called brokerage. Is that the same thing as lease to lease? I think it's like you could source these, you know, the same way sources will source a rent to SA deal. You could broker a deal where you arrange for a provider and a landlord to come to these arrangements. So rather than sit in the middle and get the sort of monthly recurring thing, you could be pay once for arranging the deal. I think that's what this is. And then Lee is asking, you mentioned about break clause of three months notice, but you said is that three months or three years?

Yeah. So the break clause would be a three month break clause. A three year lease is how long I'd have the lease for at least, but I'd have the right to break out of it, you know, with three months notice. And most people are happy with that.

Okay. And what's preventing the loan brokerage?

Generally the term brokerage is used when we do that second contract, which is the one I was telling you that, you know, you act as the. You just do the introducing, you draw, you. You join them up together and they, they then do the deal. So the landlord and the care company sign the contract, the same contract together, not with you in the middle. And that's normally called. Is when, when it's brokerage, when you do it this way around, when you're in the middle, then it's not normally called brokerage. And the main reason for doing it this way around is it gives you more control as to what happens with that property. So for example, if this care company goes bankrupt, disappears, you could bring up another one. You still control that if you wanted it. Yeah. Any more questions on this bit?

Yeah. How do you prevent the landlords from going directly?

Yeah. So there's something called a non circumvention agreement. So it's an agreement that basically means you can't circumvent. So if this is the landlord, you're not allowed to circumvent, go around you to the other party. So it's a non circumvention agreement and it just means you can't go around them. If they sign that, then they can be liable for your fees and your costs and everything else. But generally if you made them sign the, the reason you get problems is when you say to a landlord, I'll get you a, you know, I'm going to do this. And then the landlord's like, well, hold on, you're getting 1500 and you're only paying me a thousand, I want 1500. And you've got no nothing signed nothing thing. And they don't feel that you've given them enough value. So they're like, well, I'm not paying you 500 pounds for the next, every month for the next three years. So they, you know, they, they want to argue about it because they feel, they feel hard done by. However, they would have only got a thousand pound if they were to do it on their own anyway. Right. But that's, it's because they think it's too easy for you. So you should always have some kind of a contract in place and a non circumvention agreement helps to put that into place. And that's the, that's the minimum I would do just because it, it keeps everyone clear as to where the conversation is going, what the agreement was, was. And people then don't change their mind because they think they can. And if you have agreements in place, I haven't. It's very rare that people try and go around you. The problem is when you've not signed nothing. So just make sure you sign something and agree something when you've done it with a landlord. But you know, to make it really clear people worry about things quite often and I've seen this a lot in, in business in general, but in property too, where people worry about a, a specific fear that's not real. So look, we've had this. Oh, what if the landlord goes around? Yeah, that's true. How many letting agencies are there in the uk? How many properties do they rent every year to tenants? How many of those landlords are going around? Not many. And the reason is because there's a basic contract in place which is a management agreement in place which stops you. If you do do that, the letting agency is going to sue you and charge you their fees anyway. So really, what if you've got some basic systems in place in whatever you're doing, most of the things that you're afraid of, most of the problems that you have disappear. It's one of my big, one of my big issues in the way people are doing property and coming into property investment. You know, they, they watch a video, go on a course, whatever, but they don't put a system in place to understand all of the steps. Oh, this is what I need to do. This is how it does and it doesn't then mitigate all those risks. You know, you wouldn't start certain businesses if you didn't have systems in place in order to run that business. And just remember, if you're doing property, you're building a business and you should have your systems in place for your business to run properly. Any other questions? Gim or.

Yeah, you're good? Yeah, let's move on.

Okay, so, so we've talked about cash flow and how, how you're Hanif.

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I can't get my screen to format properly. So I can send a chat message. Could you just explain in terms of, other than locating the social housing company, what value you can pitch to the landlord and the social housing company to justify yourself as the middle person, as it were. And also, do you have to disclose your markup to either party?

Yeah, sure. Okay, so let me answer those two questions separately. So the first question, how do you create your value to the, to the landlord and how do you create your value to the, to the care company? So if we start with the landlord and let's stick with this, typical house, 1000 pound rent a month. I always start with this. I say, what's the market value rent to the landlord. Landlords will say it's £1,000. I say, okay, but what do you actually get after your expenses, after your costs? You know, pull up your self assessment returns, have a look at that and they'll probably come in around 700 quid a month, you know, after they've had to replace a carpet or this or that every year. So I'll say, look, I'm actually giving you £300 more than you would have got because at a thousand pounds you don't have to worry about maintenance, you don't have to worry about these other things, all these costs that you've had over the last, you know, years which bring down your rent, you're going to get that cash in your hand. So that straight away gives the landlord the feeling that they're going to get more money from me, even though I'm offering them the same market rent quite often now from the care provider. And the biggest issue is landlords cannot find this. Even experienced landlords with 30, 40 properties ring me up all the time and they have the same gripe and they're like, you know, I'm looking for, I've got a property, I'm trying to rent it out, I can't find anyone to rent it who wants it right now, do you know anyone? And then, you know, they're running around trying to find someone and then in the end they can't find anyone and they, they just do a buy to let on it. So they, they have this problem. It's one of the reasons, so one of the, you know, the main thing I do now is I, I, which Guillem said before, I help companies grow really fast. So we, we, we help companies to scale fast, you know, with brand scaling. And one of the companies that, where we're building in that, in that group of companies is a platform for care providers to be able to listen what their requirements are. So landlords and middlemen can then find those care companies really quickly so that they can do the matching and have this. And the reason we're doing it is we want it for ourselves but also for everyone else. Okay, so now coming back to the care provider, the thing that you offer them as a care provider or a supported living company, I'm using these terms interchangeably because they are right, care providers, supported living companies are all sort of in that same area. Depends who you've got. The main problem that I have is I'm told, okay, there is this person, John Smith, who needs care provided for them and it comes up onto our portal in the framework and we might have one or two weeks to find a property and they need a property in B28 because it's already close to where they live and they need this amount of care. So we've got the ability to give them the care but we haven't got a property in B28 so we can't take that client on. Someone else who does have a property in B28 can take them on and normally what happens is there's a one to two week window before that person has been given by the social worker to someone to house them and to provide them the care. So the biggest issue that we have as a care company and this is what all care companies and supported living problem is I don't know what's going to come up next week in terms of what my needs are going to be. You know, am I going to need a property in B28, am I going to need a property in B1, am I going to need a three bedroom house or a two bedroom house or a one bed flat? So I, and I've only got typically two weeks to find somewhere, probably a week really. So I'm looking for people who can help me solve that situation and if you say that's what you help solve, they are interested in dealing with you.

Brilliant. Thank you Hanif, that's great. And in terms of the second question, in terms of the disclosure then. So you would disclose because you're disclosing the additional added benefit that you're adding for that.

Yeah. So you know, just like a letting agency would tell you that they're charging 10% or whatever. I do disclose what, what we're making. Sometimes we don't. If we're doing the two contracts and we're in the middle, there is no need for the landlord and all the care company to ever know that, that that's what, what we're paying to each party and where, what we're getting because the contracts are separate. This is a contract for a thousand pounds that I've done between me and that person and this is a separate contract that's done here for 1500 quid. Those two contracts are only mirrored, not linked. Okay. So they, they mirror their responsibilities but they're not linked. So this person does not know that I'm only paying a thousand. And sometimes I, you know, I would structure it that way especially if I know this care company is a little bit sort of going to try and knock me down and give me a lot of headache or if I think the landlord is. But if I've done the other type of contract where I'm more brokering it then they fully understand and I'm charging them a percentage to, to provide the, to provide it. And it could be 15%, 10% as an introducer.

Right, I get that. And will this scenario also work for social housing or is this just primarily supported living?

No, it works for social housing as well. The main problem you have with social housing is how much extra rent can you get and most social housing. So social housing is a big circle. It includes lots of things. So for example, someone on an LHA rent could be considered social housing type, you know, rentals. The problem you have is the market rent is a thousand, they're willing to pay you a thousand. So there's no margin. That's a real problem. So whenever you're doing anything in, in any business or in any property, always look for the niche within the niche where the margin sits. Okay, yeah, I get where the. Yeah, always look for where the money is. Again, I see a lot of people, you know, whether they're building a business or they're building something else, they're always thinking about, oh, this is the opportunity. But there's always within that opportunity there's a smaller part where the real money is and you can make more money. I'll give you an example. We used to sell plastic buckets to B and Q, right. So you can imagine, you know those one pound buckets to B and Q, which we sold a million of those buckets every single month. Don't ask me what people do with them. We used to sell million plastic buckets to B and Q every month. The, you know, the, the smaller ones and then we sold the larger ones to the gorilla tub style ones, the 5 liter, 25 liter, the bigger ones. And we sold those to, to BNQ and we probably sold 20,000 of them or one of the lines were 20,000. Which one made us more money?

The 20,000. Yeah, yeah.

It's kind of a loaded question, right? Even though we sold a million of these, the money was.

Yeah, yeah.

Because it was a niche and we made probably 20 times as much money on that compared to that. So really often it's understanding where the money is within a niche that you want to really understand. So you can make money.

Yeah, thank you. There's lots of interest around this strategy, but we do need to move on to the next one. And if you are interested in this, Hanif did a full session when we had our Today, when we did some events earlier this year. I put the link in there if you want the recording and in there you have the slides step by step, the scripts, what to say you know like so like properly there as for the little chant there. So if you want to deep dive into this, have a look at the recording and then ask any questions in the community and then we can get Hanif to come and answer these, you know or people to help each other.

So thanks.

Next one Hanif. So after lease to lease what's the way of to growing your port, multiplying your cash, making long term right now.

So yeah, so again you know, let me tell you. So some of the strategies people use are you know brr. The problem with BRR is stamp duty is really making it very very difficult to make any money doing it that way. You can still but you really have to get the property way below market value to make the numbers work. So my, my favorite at the moment around that strategy, well not at the moment, it's been a favorite for 20 years is assisted sales. And for those of you who don't know what an assisted sale is, it's basically where you help fix up the property. You pay to fix it up. The property gets fixed, it's then sold and you and the current owner share the profit. You don't actually buy the property. So Guillaume owns a property. I don't buy that property from Guillaume. Me and Guillaume agree that I'm going to spend 20000 fix up this property. We're going to sell that property together. The increase in value then means that the gam now you know, we sold the property instead of at 150000 we were able to sell it for 200 000. I put 20 grand in that extra 30000 is miners profit. Guillain was happy that he got 150 and for doing up the house and my profit. And that's really how that strategy works. It's pretty been around for a long time. I remember the first time I did it, I did it by accident because I was trying to help the guy out and I didn't know what to do. It didn't make sense for me to buy his property. The numbers weren't, wouldn't work and it wasn't a great buy to let type property. So in the end I structured the deal like that and then the next thing I know I thought oh that's really cool idea, let's do it again. So then we started doing it more and then eventually I taught it years later. But the, the point I'm trying to make is those that strategy has been actually all of these strategies that you know, you see today and people talk about it, whether it's lease to lease, whether it's rent to rent, whether it's assisted sales, whether it's lease options, purchase lease options, any strategy, none of them on new. Okay. Or they are all been around for a long, long time. In fact, you know, a lot of them we, we pioneered and brought into the market sort of 20 years ago when I, I wrote a, a book or a manual on every strategy that we'd used and all the ones that had done, which was like 50, 51 different strategies that we'd used. We called them power plays and in there we showed how we did title split and everything. But the point I'm really trying to make here is the strategies are all there. They just change their name slightly and sometimes they will change a little twist to make it work in the current situation. But the ultimate strategies are there, right? Those strategies have been around for a long time. All you've got to do is choose one that works for you, understand what you need, understand your strengths, your weaknesses and then align them to a strategy that's going to make sense for you. So for example, if I had a million pound in the bank, I wouldn't go out and do lease to lease strategy. Why would I? I would be looking at doing either cash lump sum style strategies or long term capital appreciation type strategies. Doesn't make sense for me to do that, right? So it's understanding your strengths, your weaknesses and then doing that. If I'm a great negotiator and I love to negot, then I would probably do a lot of lease to lease because I'm negotiating on both parts. That's my strength. Use the strategy that optimizes my strength. So understanding that makes a big difference, right? Understand yourself. Use that to then decide what strategy you, you want to do. Coming back to assisted sales, I, I, you know, I've been talking about this strategy for the last year. You know, Guillem and I have been having conversations and I've said to him it's my favorite lump sum strategy and it hasn't changed. Quite often, you know, strategies move around, but this is my favorite strategy at the moment because stamp duty has made it really difficult for, for brr people to compete against you. If they buy the property, fix it up by the time they bought it, pay their finance costs, paid their stamp duty, you know, they, they've, it's cost them an extra 10 to 12% so they've got to get that property 10 to 12% cheaper than someone who sets it up. As an assisted sale to make that same deal work and my risk is much lower. I'm only putting in the refurb cost and sometimes you know, when I, we structure them where the, the builder will put in on most of that refurb cost as well. So our, you know, our, our investment is even lower and the risk is pretty much mitigated. So it's, it's a. Right now in terms of lump sum type deals, it's, it's probably my, my favorite strategy. We also do you know, some shortly strategies which I also like doing at the minute. What else would I say? Those are probably the two lump someones I, I would, I would be most thinking with. I know we're short of time so I'm going to go straight into the, into the, the long term hold type strategies. So on a.

Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I was just looking for the mute button for like a.32nd. Sorry. Just on this estate sales, you know, like, you know the big advantage of this is you don't have to put a deposit down, you don't have to pay stamp duty, you don't have to have finance incur finance cost. And every offer you do on every deal should be your, you know, your offer A with the normal way of buying with all the costs and this is the number. And then offer B is the creative strategy which might be an assisted sales. If you intend to flip the property, anyone here is doing an offer to flip, you should have side by side an assisted sell offer. And the conversation actually becomes really, really interesting because you flip it in a way where it's you and the vendor against the evil bank, against the taxman, against all these other evil third party. And you can really theatrically organize your conversation where you sit together next to each with the vendor on the sofa and it's you again, it's the two of you against them. Every offer you put, you should have those two together and they're very, very, very compelling. And the worst case scenario that will happen is they really trust that you're trying to make this work for you. And they'll go for the low offer, the low offer with all the costs and et cetera. So just like this works really, really well. And then the second thing on assisted sales with stamp duty and things like that and the market's slowing down as we see now nationally on average, there's more property on the market that there's ever been in the last eight, nine years. I can see assisted sale in the same way agents understand the idea of exchanging and Completing a bit later. It's only a matter of time, probably a couple of years, before this becomes quite mainstream. So you've got a lot of arbitrage, opportunity to go and understand all these strategies work and make them work before it becomes the new normal. Because it's the only way you'd be able to flip properties with the way the cost of things are. I don't know if you want to.

Add to that 100% agree. You want to get the, the vendor, the seller to sort of cut to a point where they feel that you're on the same side. So one of the, one of the things I always do is look like G was saying, make two offers, right? So I say, look, we can do an offer and the offer I'm going to buy your house for is 120,000. And this is the reason with all the, you know, all these costs, plus my profit. And we use that perfect offer template that we've talked about previously. Guillaume. Right. But I always say to them, but I wouldn't take that. So you make them an offer that's low and you tell them, don't take my offer. They, they always go, they look at you like, what the hell, right? And I say, the reason I don't want you to take this offer is because I think I can get you more money if you do it like this. And then you talk to them about the assisted sale and then, then you say to them, look, everyone who's like me is going to do this brr style strategy, and this is how it works and this is why they're going to have to give you 120,000 for your house. But if we do it like this, I can give you 140,000 for your house and you can make more money. They almost always are interested and, you know, and are very keen to do something because they, they get the idea that, they get the idea that you're, you're on their side because you could have just offered them that it's 120 grand and that's all you're going to get. So in their mind, they, they've completely. The fact that you've told them, don't take my low offer changes the way they feel about you instantly. I've used it many, many times. And again, it was one of those things that happened by accident. I mean, in a conversation, talking to a vendor, made him an offer, felt bad. I'm like, don't take my offer just because I feel guilty that it's so low. And they've gone how can we do it? And then we started talking about the creative deal. So what I would say to you is always think that way around.

Awesome.

Somebody have a hand up or are we moving on?

Yeah, we have all Siva, let's move to the, the other one. Just mindful of people's time, make sure we, I think we. Look, we're going to overrun anyway, but we can do the questions after.

Yeah, okay. So the, the third, the third thing I wanted to talk about really was long term capital appreciation. What is it that. You know, what, what kind of deals or what kind of properties strategies work for long term capital appreciation. So again, you can't really have long term capital appreciation for buy to let anymore because you can't get the cash flow to work in, you know, for the next 20 years is just too much of a struggle. So because of that you've got to find other strategies that are lower risk but still give you the, the long term ownership of the property. So remember we talked about lease to lease earlier where we talked about cash flow. What if it was possible to not only have a lease on a property for the next three years, five years, 10 years, but also have an option to buy that property at the same time? And an option just means I've got a right to buy a property if I could combine those two things. So the right to rent it a lease and the right to buy it an option into a lease option, then I fix the problem. I've got the cash flow in the short term every month I and I've got the long term appreciation because I've got this option to buy the property at today's price, for example, and if it goes up in 10 years time, I still pay the same price as I did now. And that's basically what a lease option is. And you know, when I first realized how powerful and how amazing these were, I was just like, and this is great, right? And we did hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of lease options and I would recommend to everyone to have them as part of your overall portfolio because they give you control over the property without the risk of owning the property. So if interest rates go up, I can give the property back to the owner. If I can't rent it, I can give the property back to the owner. If for whatever reason I don't want it, I can give it back or I can sell my option and I can sell my lease to someone else because I always make sure my lease options are assignable contracts. So that's one way to get long term capital appreciation if you don't have a lot of money right now in your pocket, right? So if you don't have the money to go out and get deposits you don't have. Because with a lease option, remember with a lease you don't need any deposits necessarily or at least not big deposits. You might need a few months deposit from a landlord to feel comfortable when they're renting you the property. But also with an option, you've just got the option to buy it, you haven't paid anything for it and normally you pay a pound for the option agreement. So in, in essence it's a very little or no money style deal to strategy to be able to get into long term capital appreciation. So for a lot of people it works as a strategy and it's, it, it will always be part of our overall strategies that we use. I'm not saying that's the only strategy do we use. So for example, we have a, you know that care business that we talked about earlier that I own, we've bought probably close to or our portfolio is close to sort of 15 million and the majority of that is, is owned not, not lease options. There's maybe one lease option in there right out of the 35 or 36 homes that we have. So what you. In that one portfolio. So what you will, what you find is lease options will play a part of your overall strategy. And every, everyone I know who does property to a, you know, a big level in general has some types of lease options within their, within their overall strategies. And almost all commercial transactions on commercial deals will have lease, either a lease option or an option of some sort done into the deal. They always do. And people get confused between lease options and exchange with delayed completion. They're very similar. And the thing to think about, and the easiest way to think about them is exchange with delayed completion. Generally I use when the, when the option period, the time you've got to buy the property is really short and lease options are when the, when the time might be five years, 10 years. The longest lease option we've ever had is like 17 years that we've completed on right? So 17 years ago we completed, we agreed and last year we, we done the deal on that particular lease option. So the, the point I'm trying to make is. Don't, don't worry too much about, you know, oh, I can't get any capital appreciation right now because I got no cash and all I'm going to do is rent to rent or lease to lease, which I would always recommend do lease to lease rather than rent to rent. You're doing lease to lease because I'll give you two reasons why. The number of landlords who, if you go back to later and say to them, look, I know I've leased your property. Thing is, I need to spend this money to get it fixed or I want to do this. Can I agree a price to buy it? I may never buy it, but I want to agree a price to buy it in, in the next three years. And if we can agree that price, you know, I'm happy to do that. Lots of landlords are tired right now and they will say turn around to you and say yes. Most will say no, but you only need 1 in 10 to say yes. Out of every 10 people you ask, one person in general will say yes and they'll agree a price with you. And that price will be market value or maybe even a little bit above market value or a little bit below market value. But what do you care? Because what you're expecting is the price to have gone up a lot more. So I mentioned that, that property, that lease that we had that lease option, the 17 year old. So we, we agreed, I think it was 78, 000 and that property is currently worth $220,000. I bought the property at the 78, 00 value 17 years later, even though it was worth sort of two hundred and thirty or two hundred and twenty or something at that time. So the, the point I'm trying to make is if I had agreed to at the time, that property, I don't think it was worth 80 grand. He'd, he was about to be repossessed, the guy. And you know, if, if it had gone onto the market, I wouldn't have paid him more than 70 grand for it. But because I did a lease option, I didn't have any risk. So I didn't mind, actually it was costing me 10,000 more because 17 years later that, that was irrelevant. And that's the thing that you have to get your head around with lease options. Once you do, it changes everything. And also going back to that first strategy, whenever you have a lease to lease or even a rent to rent, go back and ask your landlord, can I have an option agreement please? Can I have an option agreement please? You know, you don't, you'd be surprised how many of them agree to it. Okay, so those are my favorite strategies at the minute and they work for pretty much everyone. Now certain people obviously will have, if you've got £20 million sitting in a bank, then lease options should be only one part of your strategy. You also need to think about should I be investing in commercial, should I be investing in blocks of flats and doing long term supported living contracts like 21 year contracts? So there are different strategies depending on your circumstances. I've given you the kind of strategies that would work for everyone and also ones that we're doing right now. So even though we have lots of different portfolios and we do lots of different investments in different types of properties, so we buy bungalows, we buy, you know, short lease flats, we buy different things, they all use these strategies and these are strategies we currently looking and using ourselves. But they could work for all of you guys and there's no one who's listening to this who would not benefit from those three strategies I've spoken about.

Anif, that's great, thank you. It's good, great overview of these things. Hopefully that, you know, gives people a bit of a insight into what to focus on and things like that and then don't go and flagged it. Also I think we're very, very privileged at property to have the likes of Hanif and all the community doing deals every day upon the country because we know what works right now. So I'd say be really, really mindful of, you know, sometimes you can find yourself into someone's funnels where you know, you're led to believe that rent to rent on HMO is great because it's a great course that they've been selling since 2012. It's not to say it's not because you worked before that it's the best thing to do right now. So just apply some critical thinking on these things and make sure this is the right thing for you. And it's also something that works right now. So yeah, thanks for that. So just want to make sure we go through some of the questions. So I'm going to start with Nicole here. If I had to raise a lump sum of Money, let's say 20k in 30 days, which strategy would best be used? So, so I don't know if the question is how do I raise 20k from an investor or is it how do I, or do I create 20k from a property strategy?

For me, always first is how do I create, how do I create 20ks worth of value by thinking in my head, you know, this is one of the things I love property so much. You can look at a, a property which is a rundown house and just from your imagination you can imagine that A property can go from 100 grand to worth a million because you're going to put a block of 15 flats on there and it's possible to do it and you can get planning permission. Everybody else looks at that and goes, it's a derelict house. Your imagination allows you to create value. So in the same way I would be looking at the deal and saying, how can I reimagine this so that I can create value? So, you know, simple things are, who are all the other people involved? Oh, there's a builder involved. He's going to get paid 30k to do the work. What if I gave him 10 grand now and he put in 20 grand and came in as my partner, but instead of him now getting paid 30,000, he gets paid 35,000 on this deal or 40,000 on this deal. Is it in his interest? Yes, it is. Okay, great. Now I've, I've just created £20,000 of money that I don't need to put into that deal. So that's like a simple idea. But there's a million of those types of ideas that we, you know, that we, that we share in the community and we talk about in the property filter community. And honestly, I, I used to love this thing. You know, I just do deal clinics and I would just sit with people and explain how to restructure deals. So you don't necessarily need to go out and find a load of investors. If you are trying to find an investor, the number one simple, easiest way to find an investor and what I did when I first started was go to an auction. Go to the front where the guys at the front with Tamara turn around, standby. Instead of looking at him, turn around and look at the audience and see who's putting up their hand and saying, I'm bidding on properties. Look for the person who's bidding on the property but came second so they didn't win the property. You know, they're saying, I want to buy a property. I've got money to invest, I'm super serious. They're telling you all of these things. All the headaches you normally have from an investor, are they going to do it? Are they thinking about it? Or they really, this person really wants to, and they've just missed out on a property. I go over to them, I say to them, how are you doing? Just saw you were bidding on a property. I've got a similar property to that, or I saw similar properties to that. Would you like to have a coffee and we can have a proper chat about it? Take their number, don't give them your number, then call them, arrange to have coffee, you know, they're a serious person and they're worth the time to invest because they wouldn't be there putting their hand up if they weren't doing a deal. And honestly it's the, I've shared this before with other people and the number of people who come up to me and said I found my, you know, found an investor from that is unreal. I know you get a lot of online stuff now, but there's still people in a room and there's still auctions happening.

Awesome. How do you go about securing an assisted sale, you know, in terms of the agreement? So, you know, do you put RX1, what's the arrangement basically to secure an assisted sale?

Yeah. So lots of different solicitors do it in lots of different ways. Okay. But in essence you, you need your main, and this is the way I look at it, is what's my risk if this, of this not happening? My main risk is I put 20,000, put a new kitchen in for this person and they go, that's a nice kitchen, I think I might stay. And they change their mind and decide not to sell the house. Or that's my risk. Okay. Everything else is my, I haven't my due diligence properly. So for example, I, I thought the house was going to be worth 250, but it was only worth 200 with a new kitchen. That's my, that's my due diligence being done wrong. If I bought that and I'd done the deal, those are things that you need to understand and know the answers to. But my real risk is them changing their mind. So as long as I can stop them from changing their mind, I'm good with it. And there's lots of different ways to do that. So one of them is I can have a charge on the property depending on whether the first charge allows me to. So for my lending I can charge interest on that charge. So on the 20,000 for the new kitchen, for example, I can have in there an agreement that they will sell the property on completion of the works or once I find a buyer. So there are lots of things to mitigate that risk. And generally a good solicitor who's done this before will structure the deal in such a way that makes it pretty easy. The only times I see people mess up with assisted sales as a strategy is where they get overconfident after the fixed up value. So they think I spent 40k and the property's going to be worth 180,000 and it's only worth 130 or 150. It's that where they lose money, not from anything else. I've even had an assisted sale where the person died in the middle of the sale. But the paperwork allows us to sell the property and give it to so it's not the, the real risk you have is determining what the end value is going to be of that property. And that's from your experience, your research property and talking to lots of agents and other other investors and people and just practicing. You know, I'm shocked at the number of people who do not practice what something is worth and really quite easy to practice stuff. You know, if you were to just. I'll give you just look on right move and look at a whole load of properties, let's say 100 properties in your area or even make it easy 20 properties in your area and write down today's date on a spreadsheet and write down next to it what you think it's worth. Have a look at those properties. Four or five months, months later some of them will have sold, some of them won't. And four or five months later you'll start getting the actual sold prices that were sold at land registry. Put that in a column next to it and see how far apart you were from what you thought they would sell for. If you do that a few times you will start correcting self correcting for your overvaluations on stuff and you'll start realizing what a property is really worth and what it's really, you know will help you on your due diligence immensely. And I so I recommend everybody does that and just by doing that alone will, will allow you to understand what properties are really worth.

Yes. And it gives you confidence over time. It's quite a good, good practice. Thank you for that. Another question on from Lee around When you're doing the lease to lease so who takes care of the maintenance, repairs, you know, is it what, what is the care provider doing? Are you still liable for like roofs and boilers? Where, where do you draw the line usually on this kind of deals?

Yeah. So I think I. You can write anything you want in these contracts. So what I said to you is I mirror the contract and I always want to mirror it. Whatever I've agreed with the landlord is what I'm going to agree with the care provider. So if I agreed we're changing the boilers and we're after the boiler, then I would agree with the care Provider, I'm looking, you need to look after the boiler, you need to do. Whatever I write, I mirror them so that they're both exactly the same and there's no difference. Now, some landlords will not require as many things and they'll just say, yeah, just do the, you know, all I want is all the basic maintenance, but I'm happy to look after the roof, the buildings. I'll change a carpet every three years. I'll do all these things. Great. Whatever they agree to, you're happy. And you know, the care providers, I'll give them that, they'll pay a bit more. The less they have to do, the more they'll pay. And that's the mirrored agreement. But some landlords are like, I want complete hands off, don't want to know about this property again, just, just keep renting for me. And I want nothing to do with it. And these are all the things that you're going to have to include. Then I mirror that. They will pay much closer to market rent. And again, but it's mirrored. So I, you know, I don't really care how it's, you know, what's included and what not, what's not. I just mirror the two parties.

Awesome. Back to. Back to estate sales. Sorry, from Caroline. So how much is too much? You know, in terms of, you know, how much refurb is too much on a property you don't own? You know, so she gives the example of maybe buying something for 600 or securing something for 600, putting in 100k and then it's revalued at 850. 900 is 100k too much?

I mean, it's a good question. Right, so let me put it this the other way. What's the least amount we've done? We've done assisted stale type deals where we've paid 5, 600 pounds just cleaning up the garden, cleaning up the, the rubbish and the mess and just doing that increased value by 10, 20 grand. You know, you'll be surprised. The, the mistake people make is they think they need to do a big, massive refurb to make the value of the property go up. Yes, you often do. But also the thing to remember. So I've owned a few estate agenties, we've sold, you know, we told them we still own one estate agency or have shares in an estate agency. But the thing that you, you have to understand is people make normal people, not property investors and always think, you know, like a normal person when you're in that situation. Right. Because that's going to be your buyer, a normal buyer only. Most of them make their decision the moment they see their house as to whether or not they're going to buy that house. So it's called kerb appeal. The moment they drive up to the curb, look at the house and they go, I want to live here and have babies and live here for the next 20 years or whatever. And if you can increase that curb appeal of the house, you will get that sale. Everything else is just them walking about, either confirming what they did as they walked up to the door, or something has shocked them to say, I'm not buying this house. But it's very rare that they flip from one thing to another. They either want to buy it at that point or they don't. So you want to make the house look as nice as possible with that curb appeal at the beginning. So the gardens, the front, the front of the house should look perfect and then other things in there should be at least okay. And in terms of what's my, my concern about doing higher type deals where properties worth 600, you spend 100 and it becomes 800. Those properties take a lot longer to sell. I don't like to be in a situation where I'm stuck selling that property for a long time. I want to be only doing assisted sales where the property sell quickly. So, you know, I'm in and out quickly the longer it takes for me to sell a deal. So if I know an area and you know, you can go into property filter and you can use the data and it tells me it's taking nine months to sell a house in this area that's worth more than 700k, then I want a much bigger margin because a lot can happen in nine months. You know, we could go to war, we could have inflation spikes, who knows. So I want a much bigger margin. If it's telling me, you know, properties in this area are sold, subject to contract in five days, then I'm pretty sure that it'll be quick and easy for me to sell this property. So then my return is different. The way I always look to do it is the minimum I want is to double my money. After everything, you know, all my costs, I want a minimum, double them. I want, normally I want at least twice. So if I put in 20 grand, I want 40k back. If I put in 100 grand, I want at least 200k profit back. Yeah. So you very rare. If you put in 100, are you going to get 200,000 in profit back? Sometimes you do but generally you won't. So it's really understanding that situation.

Awesome. Another question is around with agents being involved or do you sort of structure those assisted sales?

Yeah, good question. So like I said, I was an estate agent, and we still have or, you know, I owned a few estate agents, and estate agents don't understand it, don't get it. But the way that you've got to structure it to them, if I go in there and I asked to buy their properties that they have no problem selling and I want to do an assisted sale, they're just gonna go, I don't know what you're talking about. Go away. Right. However, if I looked on property filter first, I find the deals where the property has fallen through or it's been on the market for a long time and they've struggled to sell it. And I go in and I say, look, I've noticed these properties bit run down, you know, that you've got on the market. What we do is we spec, we specialize in where we basically refurb. So I don't say the word assisted sale because I don't get it. What, what we do is we refurb the property and then put it back on the market and help the seller sell. We're basically like a bit like a. What they called a staging company, because estate agents understand staging companies, but we do a lot more than normal stages do. So staging companies will go in and put furniture and make, you know, some paintings and make the house look nice. We do a lot more than that. And that's the way we phrase it. They are generally then like, okay, that's interesting. Tell me more. And how does this work? What does it cost? And you say it, and you have to be very clear. Their main thing is, what does this cost? What does it cost? And you say there is no cost to your seller. We do. We make our money when the sale happens because we're able to increase the price price of the property because it's been refurbed. And then the agent goes, ah, okay, I get it. And because they can't sell that property anyway, they're open to coming up with a solution for it.

Awesome. Anif, thanks so much for that. So when you're not doing deals or helping other people do deals, what are you up to these days? What's keeping you busy? I know you like new stuff, new ventures all the time. Always want to figure out new things.

So, I mean, I run something called brand scaling. It's basically a group of companies that come together that help each other and we show them how to scale really fast and you know it's property related companies but also app companies, care companies and we just help them to grow really quickly into, into multi million pound businesses. And we like companies and ideas and they could be from complete startups where you know, no revenue, no customers, up to companies that are doing really well. And we found, you know, I found it really, really fun, really interesting and we've got some really cool people in our, in our group. There's Yu gm, there's Simon, Simon Suchi, that's you know, that we, we mentor. There's Cam Davadi, there's Lee from Sell My House Quickly and, and site finder guys and lots of others and all. What, what I'm, you know what, I love the, the idea do that to really sort of help grow these companies and me and my wife do it together and you know, it's a great way for her to be involved in, in stuff because I'm lazy. Hello. There she is. She, she's the real brains to be honest.

I'm, I'm the beauty, I'm just the AI brain.

But, but yeah, so you know we, we, we do it together and we, we really enjoy it and we've, we've managed to be lucky enough to grow some of these companies into like I said, you know. So for example the, the app companies now the fastest growing beauty app in the UK. It's grown from zero to probably 50 million this year. At least it'll do in revenue. Our care company, we're in the process of, of selling that one now, you know, for probably 15 million plus. And there's, there's a few others and, and, and it's fun and we, we really enjoy that whole thing. Just like with Property Filter, you know, the, the journey of going from an idea to something substantial to then being able to scale it like you guys are doing, you know, you flow and Cyril has been awesome to watch and to be involved in and, and it's something you know, we really, really enjoy doing.

Yeah. So basically you're building. I joke about calling the two of you the Armoses of Birmingham. Right. Because you got your fingers in lots of pies and you know, advising and helping full ecosystem grow. So yeah, it's quite good fun. So, and you structure it into, there's like a property ecosystem, there's a beauty ecosystem, there's a retail ecosystem and basically whatever, all the services within an ecosystem you want to help grow as a collaborating cohort. So I'm guessing If anyone in the room is outside of property investing, is interested in a business in property, maybe there's a conversation to be had and we can reach out to you.

Yeah, absolutely. If anyone wants to, you know, has got a great idea, has a, has a business that they want to scale, we're interested in, in having a conversation at least seeing, seeing if they have what, what matters most to me is not where they are now, is where they want to get to. You know, do they really want to get there? Do they really have the desire, do they really have the ambition to want to be successful, to want to really grow their business? And if so, and we think it's something that we're going to have fun doing together and they're going to be fun working with, then. Yeah, we, we, you know, we're, we're open to, to looking at that and discussing it.

Yeah, but just to be clear, it's not like a property investing course thing, it's more like a business.

No, no, no, no. These are businesses and building businesses. This is about building a business. It could be a property related business. So you could be a property lawyer for example or a property accountant or something. But, but they're not, you know, building portfolios of properties. This is scaling businesses that can be scaled to tens of millions, you know, with help from us. And whether that's helping to raise money or helping to put teams together, everything.

To do with marketing, branding, collaborations with other companies, AI, how AI is affecting other companies, everything around your business that people sort of don't realize how important it is to help them scale that business. All the other things that are needed to make a business successful.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, I've got your, your thing. Do you want me to share? Do you want me to share your thing? And if the, you know, we've been sending to a few of my friends the, this application. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Let me just find it. We didn't really plan too much of today, so it's like. Yeah, you want stuff, right?

Hi. Hi Guill, you're good.

So I've just put there in there. So for those of you who commented that it was interesting or amazing, love all of this sounds amazing. Well, that's amazing. So if you guys wanted it. So basically it's a room where the likes of me, Simon Ducci sit with. I don't want 12 of us and I think the aspirations to get up to 20, it's just like building an ecosystem. So yeah, property, yeah.

It's basically all of us working together to build company Sorry to interrupt. It's just all of us working together to build companies faster because everyone has the same problems, everyone has the same issues. And if one person solves it and then collaborates with everyone else and work together, you just build way faster. Your, your businesses will grow quicker. And we found that over the years that's worked really well for, for us. We used to be competitors in the lettings game. She was a letting agent, I was a letting agent. We collaborated, now have seven kids. I'm not saying that's what you get when you join, but, but the point I'm trying to make, collaboration is better than, than, you know, ultimately trying to do everything on your own. And that's, that's the way we've always worked.

Awesome. So if you've got a business idea or a business in property or in care or in retail, you might be able to join one of the, this ecosystem these guys are building. I'm part of the one, the property one. And it's good fun. Right? So I've put the link here so you can apply and I think you've got discovery days on 22nd or 24th of September and after that the cohort starts. The cohort starts after, from end of September. So yeah, make the application and then Hanif and the team will be in touch with you. Awesome. Any other question, any final sentiment you guys want to share?

Any questions?

I could listen to you all day. Hannah, that was brilliant. Thank you. I love all the out of the box thinking.

Thank you, Melanie.

Good. So I think it's over to you, honey, for a bit of a closing sentiment for today and then I thank you and wrap up after that.

Sorry, I'm just laughing at Nicole saying she wanted seven children but doesn't have any yet. We can't help with that, unfortunately. But what I would say, look to all of you is this is one of the things I remember when I was talking earlier and I said, you know, it took me nine months to get out of my job, have enough cash flow to leave my job. And it took me five years thinking about it before I started to, to actually. So the thing to do is if you've got something and you want to do it, just do it. Don't keep thinking about all the things that can go wrong. Don't keep thinking about doing that thing or not. I remember listening to some billionaire, I can't remember what his name was on some interview and he said everyone has some music inside of them that they want to play and if you never play that Music because you are scared or fearful, then you know that's wasted. So don't let fear hold you back. I've shown you some strategies, and all of those strategies are generally low risk. You can collaborate with other people. So, for example, the builders and partners on assisted sales, so that your risk is almost zero on these deals. So it allows you to get started right now. You know, go out and get started. Don't keep thinking about becoming a property investor. Don't keep thinking about, you know, I'm gonna leave my job and do this thing that I really want to do. Just do it. Honestly, my biggest regret, or one of my biggest regrets, if, if anything, I don't really tend to have regrets, is I took so long to. To leave, so. Took so long to take the first step. That's my biggest thing. I should have. I should have. You know, when I knew that's what I wanted to do, I should have just done it. I always found excuses not to do it. Don't allow excuses to stop you.

A lot of the time, people find the reason why he took so long to leave was because his pain point was not big enough for him to allow him to leave, and he became comfortable. And when you become comfortable, you just end up letting time slip by because that pain point, whatever your pain point is, is just not strong enough to allow you to leave your job or whatever it is you're doing or taking the next steps. And then later on, it turns into regret because when you look back, you think, why didn't I just do it? And for a lot of people, sometimes it's fear, Sometimes it's just not having a strong enough pain point.

Yeah. And for me, like I said, there was. I kept wanting to do it, but ultimately there was no pain point. Until my first daughter was about to be born. And I was like, I want to spend more time with her. I want to take her to the park. I want to do these things. And then it was like, okay, if I want that life, I need to change my life, that I have the flexibility to. To do all those things as a dad. Right. And, you know, it's why she always says it wasn't for her, I'd still be working in a job, and therefore all the money belongs to her, which is kind of an in running joke in our family. But. But yeah, it's. It's true. You know, I always wanted to, but until she was about to be born, I never took the step to do something. So figure out what. What you want to do. But honestly, Just do something.

No matter how small the step is. A lot of people don't realize that when they look back. Those small steps that you do take eventually do make a difference.

Yeah. Just get started.

And anyone that we've mentored, it's the ones that take the consistent small steps. Not just going out, getting really excited and then doing a sprint and then nothing for six months. It's the ones that are always consistent and they just keep coming back and just keep going on and keep trying, whether they're tiny steps, baby steps, large steps, whatever steps, but they're just consistent in doing something all the time.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Yeah.

How do you find that?

That's. Yeah.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Go on before you were done.

No, no, thank you. We're done.

Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Thanks so much for this. So really, really glad to thank you everyone for listening for this hundred deal final corner. So thanks a lot for joining us. And in the meantime, everyone, yeah, it was 100th today, so that's why I got a special special guest.

Right.

So thank you everyone for tuning in. Thank you so much, Hanif, for coming and sharing, you know, like these strategies you see work right now for you for your portfolio companies, your agencies. It's been really great. And after the further insight into the wider, broader world you're involved in and outside property. So thanks a lot for that and thank you everyone for tuning in as well, being super interactive in the chat. That was a pleasure having you guys. So until next week, I just want to thank you again and invite you to log back into propsfilter, go and have a look at those sales that are just run through the motivated sellers in your area, make those phone calls. As far as I said, you know, it's just a little. And often, you know, like have those conversations, put those offers in, follow up, you know, like, it's just as simple as it is. So until next time, see you on Props filter and see you next week. Thank you. Speak soon, everyone.