💷 How To Double or Triple Your Rent Using The New Universal Credit Wealth System with Hanif Khan

Hello everyone. So hope we are doing well. Very much looking forward for today's session. So welcome everyone to today's Deal Finder Corner. So this is your weekly property talk show brought to you by Propertyfilter, hosted by myself, Guillaume Black, your favorite Frenchman, CEO and co-founder at Propertyfilter. As you know, this is the highest rated platform to find deals and it's where our property investor and sourcer members find thousands of deals each and every year following the Propertyfilter blueprint. And really the purpose with these Weekly Deal Finder Corner is to give you more and the best of the available resources by inviting expert guests like Hanif today, who share with you the latest and most current strategies, tactics, and secrets about what actually works right now in terms of finding and making deals and the reality of running a high-performance business in property. So it really is my pleasure to introduce my very good friend, the man, the myth, the legend himself, my, you know, mentor, advisor, investor, Mr. Hanif Khan. And Hanif has been innovating in property strategies since well over 20 years. He's got more than 500 deals under his belt. He leads now the Brand Scaling Mastermind, which I'm a member of, coaching founders across property, low-care beauty, distribution. You have people like Sajid Sain, like Simon Ducci, and other people like this in the room. He's the co-author of the 51 Power Plays manual. So if you were in this game sort of 15 years ago, you would have had a chance to buy those manuals for £1,000 or something at the time it was. And these are the go-to guides for creative strategy structures. And every course you would have bought, every YouTube video you would have watched from anyone talking about anything to do with vendor financing, lease options, secondary mortgage and things like that are basically nicked from these manuals. So how do you really pioneered those strategies like making lease options legal in residential sector, secondary mortgages back then. And now, so you can use these nationwide, you know. And now his latest innovation, which I'm really pleased to share more about, obviously we've teased and talked a bit about it over the last few weeks, is his Universal Create Wealth System. So really, really happy to have Hanif here with us at PropSphere HQ to share with you more of that. So today we're going to hear from Hanif and learn how you can turn £900 a month buy-to-lets into, you know, £2,100 a month net income, basically getting HMO income on buy-to-lets, the exact framework that's creating these returns from standard properties without the HMO headaches, why rent-to-rent can finally stack again after the strategy very much died out for HMOs sort of 5 years ago and on the decline of SA since a couple of years, and how you can remove the void periods, the bills, tenant nightmare, and actually make it work and stack. So you do a lot more deals even if you don't own these properties. This universal create wealth system will be explained. So we're going to hear about this brand new national framework Hannif has created where you can plug into this whole government-backed scheme where you get paid directly by central government, why the local authorities love it, why the RSLs love it, why everyone wants to ship their properties under this scheme even though you've got much better rent. We're going to talk about why this strategy works right now, why it's the crest of the wave niche strategy that is going to redefine property investing like never before. So forget about your 2025 strategies, never mind your 2018 strategies, forget about all the YouTube videos you've ever watched about about property strategies. This is the only thing that is going to work in a scalable, systematic, profitable way going into the new year. So Anouk's going to show us how you position yourself ahead of the market. So it's likely it's the first time you would have heard from this today and really unlock and give you the biggest deal-making opportunity of the decade, making the most of this and while still working outside the Rental Reform Act, which is incredible. So we're going to talk about the systems behind the systems and practical implementation steps so you can use immediately to transform your portfolio. And then we'll have an opportunity to join each other again sometime next week to join Anivsystem as a partner. So very much looking forward to hearing all about Aniv's call today. So please join me and give Hanif a massive Props Filter welcome. So, Hanif, over to you, my good friend.

Hiya.

I'll share the screen under your slide, and then we go. So that's your slide over here.

Let me just swap these around.

And I've got you back here. Sorry, it's kind of multitasking. For you guys here. And I think this is it. And I've got your slide slideshow there. And sorry if you don't see anyone. Is there a way that I can share so that— yeah, that's fine. So we'll do that. And what I'll do, I'll join from my phone and look at the chat from there.

Okay, perfect.

Over to you.

Hi everyone, thanks for joining us. And so I'm gonna be talking about this new strategy today and how it works, how you guys can get involved, what's actually involved in it, what's real, what's not. And I'll take you through it over the next sort of hour or so. I think we're gonna do a Q&A afterwards.

Yeah, yeah.

So if there's any questions, just hold 'em for there and then I'll happily answer anything that you've got. Okay, so obviously I'm gonna tell you about this new strategy And like I said, done right, you can get between 2 and 3 times the current rent for the exact same property that you currently have. It fixes a lot of the pains and the issues landlords have in general. You know, all the landlords I know, I've been speaking to, including myself, we're feeling that pressure, the hassle, the worries around renters' reform and everything else, extra fines, all that sort of stuff. And this basically, you know, extra costs going up, the renters' reform bill, strategies that used to work for us before like BRRR, assisted sales, buy-to-let, SAs, title splits, all of a sudden those strategies are not working, they're not quite as good as they used to be because of stamp duty, because of this, because of that, because the cash flow's not there. So this strategy basically fixes all those problems. And the problem isn't property, you know, it isn't property investing, that's not the issue. The real issue has been the cash flow. Over the last sort of 2, 3 years, the amount of cash flow you can actually get on a property has been getting less and less and less. And you know, it's always been an issue. So you know, first we went down the route of HMOs so we can get more cash flow. Then we went down serviced accommodation so we can get more cash flow. So people always try and come up with solutions to increase the cash flow. And over time those have been, you know, that— That's right. Strategy no longer works, you've got to come up with something new. And that's what I'm going to show you today. So the truth that most people don't want to admit is if you don't have cash flow, then really you don't have a portfolio, you have a liability, right? And you know, the more properties you have, the more they cost you. So cash flow is, is ultimately the most important thing on any kind of property investing strategy that you're going to do long term. And today is not just going to be about showing you how to get higher rents, but it's also talking to you about how to be more than just a landlord and become a housing solutions provider, and working within the system, with the system, instead of fighting against it. You know, how can you make the system work for you as a landlord? That's really what we're trying to understand and explain and show you how we do. Okay. We didn't invent this last week. You know, it's been, like I said, like Guillaume was saying, we've been in this space for the last 14 years in the supported living space as a whole. We've done, we work with councils, the NHS, residential landlords, housing associations, charities, care providers, and many more. And over the last 2 years, what we've done is we've taken what works at scale for us and we've made it systemised so that it can work for landlords too. For small and normal landlords, right? And by the end of today, you will understand why you get the higher rents, what's the reason why, you know, the government is willing to pay higher rents, and how this works across lots of different strategies. So BRRR, rent-to-rent, vendor financing, lease options, and many more. So depending on time, I can explain how those strategies can be superpowered by using this rental strategy that we have. and then you can decide if it's right for you or not, okay? So before we get going, let me ask you a question. How much would an extra £1,000 a month per property change things for you? Would it really, you know, would it change the way you invest? Would it change the way you work? Would it change the way that you, you know, how you are planning your next 3 to 5 years of life? Anyone who's got a few properties, an extra £1,000 for each property makes a massive difference. Well, actually, what about £2,000? 'Cause with this strategy, you can potentially get £2,000 or more extra per property, and I'm going to show you how.

Okay.

And then you can decide if it'll work for you, all right? And currently, this system works for landlords who are self-managing and doing their own, you know, for their own properties. But it also can work for people who want to do rent-to-rent, either by giving a guaranteed rent to the current landlord or by sharing in some way the, by, you know, just offering them a shared scheme where they get a percentage of the rent and you get a percentage. And also it'll work for letting agents too. It's really powerful for letting agents.

Okay.

Plus anyone who's giving their property or wants to give their property supported living, you need to look at this and decide whether this strategy actually a lot better than just giving it to some care company in the supported living sector. And I'm going to show you how they do stuff and how you should be doing stuff, really. Okay. And like I said, guaranteed rent or self-managed. So most people are worried about the Renters Reform Bill to some degree, right? And, uh, you know, it's getting harder to evict tenants, you get fines for loads of things. This helps fix those problems Which kind of, you know, Guillaume alluded to earlier when he said that you don't have to worry about ASTs because the way the system works is you go under licenses. So it's a license instead of an AST. And as a license, because the residential social landlord is exempt from AST regulations around licenses, they can do that, which means you can evict tenants in 7 days and they don't have the same rights rights as a tenant who would've gone under an AST. So I'll explain some of that to you guys as we go along. Okay, and like I said, if you really want to build a portfolio and if you really want to invest in property, you need cash flow. It's all about cash flow, honestly. You know, over the years I've seen people come up with different strategies and talk about this, talk about that, but if you actually want a long-term strategy that works in property. The properties have to cash flow, otherwise you just can't hold them. You can't hold them the long term. And if it— if you've got cash flow, everything else can be fixed. So if your boiler breaks down and you're making £2,000 a month, you can pay someone to go fix it. It's not a big deal, right? If the tenant damages your property, you can fix it. If the property does not go up in value, who cares? You're making £2,000 a month on it anyway, right? So If you get the cash flow aspect right of any of these kind of strategies, everything else becomes simple and easy. Okay, so I mean, and the great thing is if you are able to get the cash flow right and you've held those properties for the long term, so for example, properties I bought for 30 grand, I know it sounds unbelievable, but 20 years ago you could get properties in Birmingham for 30K and those properties are now worth 250 to 300 grand. And I would not have been able to keep those properties over the last 20 years if it wasn't for the fact that they were bringing me cash flow every month. So cash flow is key to being really successful in property over the long term. And this kind of messed up a little bit, but in essence, this is an example of what you would get in the difference between the two. So if you look at this, this is a, a 4-bed property, which is basically a 3-bedroom house with 2 reception rooms. Because of the way the system works, that becomes a 4-bed property. And that 4-bed property currently in Birmingham, you'd have got roughly £1,200 per month rent, which means you would have got about £14,400 in rent totally for the year. And over 5 years, that's, uh, multiplied out, comes to £72,000. Under this new system, the gross rent is £4,290 per month that you'd be getting, and this is after the 25% that's been taken.

Can you explain that?

Yeah, I'll explain a bit later, I'm going to go into it, but basically you will end up with a total rent of £257,000 over 5 years rather than £72,000. So there's a huge difference between the two, clearly, right? And that's because that that property would've become a mini HMO in this particular case. But you can also do things that are not necessarily 3-bedroom houses. So you, in this particular example, you'll end up with an extra £185,000 over the 5 years extra on top of what you would've got. You know, and for those of you not doing this strategy, that's how much you're going to lose in 5 years if you don't do it. You're going to lose £185,000 on one property. That's the thing that blows people's minds and mine, right? So we are moving all of our properties into this system because it's just a no-brainer from a cash flow point.

Okay.

You, if you've got like a 4-bedroom house with 2 receptions, you can turn that into a 5-bed house. And if you look at the difference here, again, these are sort of Birmingham numbers, you'd probably get around £1,500 for an average 4-bed house. And over 5 years that's £90,000, whereas with this system you'd get £321,000, which is an extra £230K over 5 years. It's crazy, right? But this is— I'm going to show you exactly how this is possible. So I'd like you to think about how many properties do you actually have right now? Okay. So how much have you really lost in the last 5 years by not following a system like this where you're maximising your cash flow? I've lost loads, which is why we're moving everything into this system now. Okay, and it doesn't have to be this way. I'm going to show you how you can get more rent, basically. And everything I'm showing you today comes from what operating inside this sector is. It's not theory, it's, it's stuff that actually works. We understand this sector, we've been working in it, uh, we've figured out how to make everything work, and I'm going to share that with you guys today. And so for example, you know, in the last 14 years my company's worked directly in supported living and specialist housing. We've been executing this at scale. Like I said, we have 140 people work for us. We generate £2.5 million net in profit from that one company. And we work with everything from the NHS to councils to registered providers, specialist housing, complex needs. We've done everything over those years. Okay, so we understand the sector really. And in the last 20 years, what I really enjoy and what I've always liked to do is I like to be consistently early when there's a big change coming in property. And like again, you know, and many of the strategies that people say, oh, this is, you know, crazy or it doesn't work, it's not going to happen, it doesn't make sense, are now mainstream. And we were the pioneers for pretty much all of those strategies. So, you know, for example, we've done this before. It's not that we've never come up with new strategies that have changed the whole industry. So, you know, we were the first to invent residential lease options and make them legal and possible 20+ years ago. We invented same-day remortgages 18 years ago and got them, you know, mainstream and working. We created vendor financing systems 15+ years ago and made them, again, something that everybody could use, right? So I really understand and I love doing these creative stuff. And one of the things I wrote, which Guillaume mentioned, was the 51 Power Play Manuals, sort of 15 years ago. And in that, we basically broke down every single strategy that we'd done and put a case study in showing how we'd structured the deals, how we'd created them. And in those— Mm-hmm. In those manuals, there's like 1,200 pages or something crazy that I wrote. It's basically broken down every strategy that you can think of. Every strategy today, we wrote 15 years ago and broke it down so that people could understand it. I used to do a lot of training. I stopped training. So we used to have a big training company. I stopped training. And before I went off to do other things, I basically wrote these manuals so that people would understand how to do all of the strategies. And then I sold them to every other— Guillaume Black. Every other trainer and educator in the country so that they could go off and train other people. So for example, we did rent-to-rents, assisted sales, lease option, title splits, vendor financing, BRR. It was 51 different ones in total. Okay, so what did I go off and do? Well, I started a retail distribution business selling into all the big retailers, B&Q, Harrods, Boots, ASOS, you name it. Pretty much all the major retailers. The only ones we weren't in were the supermarkets. And we built a business sort of doing £30 million plus in that space. I owned and set up letting agents, still have one to this day, estate agents, a tenant eviction agency, education companies, car hire, law firms, lots of different things over the years. Uh, and we built all of these businesses, grown them, sold them, kept them, whatever. Because I'm, I, you know, if there's a problem, I want to solve it. And usually the best way to solve it is to build it yourself and get it right and working. And that's what I've always done. Okay, what do I do now? Well, as again, Guillaume sort of mentioned, I run Brand Scaling with my wife. And it's a mastermind for fast-growing companies that scale super fast, right? And our, our, our whole mantra is to find problems that people have that are large, that we can figure out how to fix and then help those companies to scale. Some of the companies you may have heard of is, you know, Guillaume obviously with Propertyfilter, Sitefinder, Summerhousequickly, BookingHub, Care Property Hub, and many, many more. And we're generally invested in those companies as well as providing a mentorship for them. Okay, so before we start, like I said, I want you to write down and think about how many properties do you currently have? And how much an extra £1,000 would be worth to you per property, an extra £2,000. And the reason I'm trying to get you to this, I want you to understand first of all what would happen if you changed what you did and what actually is that gonna be. 'Cause the hardest thing I've seen, and with me as well, right, the hardest thing is actually making a change in your life. Most people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they don't, they don't do anything because they don't understand the impact and the why. When you really understand what that why can look like, it can force you to give you the momentum to get you out of the procrastination that we all fall into, right? And it helps you to push you out. And that's really why I'm trying to get you to understand just how big an opportunity this potentially could be. It's got to be right for you and you've got to make that decision. But potentially this is huge, right? And this is going to be as as big as lease options, as big as some of the other things that we've talked about. It's the next big strategy. And the reason is the current system, right? It's chaotic, not fit for purpose. It's all over the place. The government's not happy with it. The councils are not happy with it. It just doesn't work for what it was supposed to do. And I'm going to explain this current system so you understand it before we go into what the new system looks like.

Okay.

So at the moment, if I'm looking to get onto the housing ladder and I need a house, it's very difficult for me to find any housing because there isn't— the councils don't have anything, there's nothing available. So the only way I can get prioritised is if I have a care plan as well as a housing need, and then I can go to one of these care providers who provide the house and the care. I don't probably really need care, but it's the only way I'm going to get prioritised onto it. So this is, you know, I don't really need the care, I only want housing, but the only way I can get the housing is to also have a care plan. It's growing massively, this whole area, billions and rising, which is why the government wants to fix this system and why they've, you know, come up with this new idea that we've got. So this is the current system. You'll see that basically on the left-hand side over here we have RSLs and Department of Work and Pensions, councils, NHS, etc., and they make a payment to a care provider company. So that's the cowboy, and you know, they are cowboys really at the minute, and they provide both the accommodation and the care. And that could be like a homeless person, a single mom, a veteran, anyone who needs housing and is prioritized. And the problem that the government has is the only way that they can get this, um, accommodation for these people is by providing both those two things, and that's not what want, because a lot of these care companies are not regulated in any way. They could have been like an Uber driver or an electrician last week, and now they've set themselves up. And some of those people do need care, and the care is not being provided that they need. So they want to split this out. And that's basically the, uh, the reason why this new system works is because it's the attempt by the government to split this into two separate areas. and I'm going to talk you through how it works. So what this strategy does is it solves this problem of cowboy care companies and separates care from housing and creates a true win-win. So it's a win for the government because at the moment the government is paying £440 per week per person per room, for example, and it will now be paying sort of £330 per week per person, right? So they've saved almost 25 to 30% on what they would have been paying before. So it's a great win for the government. It's a win for the councils because it's not coming from their council budget anymore, it's coming from central government. Secondly, they can get the people off their housing list that they currently have. The win for tenants, they get good quality property, and it's a win for landlords because we get great rents, right? So everybody wins. It's a true win-win, and it's a, you know, it works for everyone to do it properly. So let me give you an example, a bit more depth now of like a 3-bedroom, 2-reception house. That would then be converted into like a mini HMO, like a 4-bed, and you would end up after paying the 25%. So the way it works is you get £330 per week per room that goes to the residential landlord and to us, and we take 25% of that money. And the rest is given over to you. So in your case for this 3-bedroom, 2-reception house, you would get £4,290 per month gross instead of £1,200. So way more, right? There are some costs. So there's like a £250 onboarding. You have to make sure you've got electric certificates, gas certificates. This has to be furnished, it has to be, you know, good decorations, fire doors and fire alarms, and you know, basic there can't be mould, it's got to be a nice property. It doesn't have to be amazing, it doesn't have to be as good as professional let property, but it has to be a nice, clean, quality property.

But on the compliance, you need above and beyond, like door stoppers for your doors, even on flats and stuff like that.

Yeah, so you need the compliance.

But it's all clear.

It's all clear and we give you a breakdown of exactly what you need. But it's not complex stuff, it's basic stuff. That you're doing. And as an example, yes, you could do it with a 4-bed, but you could also do it with a studio property, right? And have a mum with a young child living in that property. And for example, in Birmingham, you'd get £450 per week, which would be sort of £1,462 for a studio flat instead of sort of £650 currently that you would've got. So, you know, again, way more money, way more, way easier as well, I'm going to explain. So this is the new system and the new framework that's been created. And in it, basically a landlord has a property, he gives it to a Housing Solutions partner, which is the guys who work with us basically and go out and either it could be your own property or it can be a property that you've done a rent-to-rent on. You find a tenant, You introduce that tenant to our tenant management companies, the tenant management companies check the tenants, fill in all the forms, get everything done, all their housing benefit, whatever they need, approve the tenant, send it over to the RSL, so the Residential Social Landlord. They then create a contract with the tenant and move that tenant into the property. And 6 weeks later, you start getting your money from DWP. They always pay 6 weeks in arrears, but—

Yeah.

When the tenant moves out, you get those 6 weeks over the next 6 weeks, right? And that's really the way the system works. It's not particularly complicated or difficult to understand, and it works really well. And what we've done is we've created a whole system around it. So if you need insurance, finance, furniture, gas, electrics, we've put everything in place so it makes it super easy for you to just have the contacts for all of those kind of things. So you can systemise and actually start scaling your business in this space if you wanted to. to. And does this work with new— different strategies? Yes, absolutely. It works with BRRs, with flips, with assisted sales, for deal sourcing, for rent-to-rents, for lease options, buying portfolios off of landlords, or, or even doing lease options on portfolios. It's a great strategy, and it allows a lot of the other strategies to be, um, to be, um, twisted slightly so they're actually even better. Um, and work even better than they currently work. And if we get some time, I can talk through those and how you would restructure some of these strategies to be even sexier, basically. First question I always get asked, is it legal? Is it compliant? Yes, it operates within the exempt accommodation framework, fully legal, already being done by councils, NHS, and RSLs nationwide. This is not something that is a loophole, it's a system that is allowed and fully compliant. So let me, let me take you through some examples, or let me take you through an example of, of a strategy that you're currently probably using. So a lot of people do BRR, right? And with BRR, they, they struggle to make it work because after you've redone the property, after you've done all this stuff, it sort of struggles. So the problem with BRR is the numbers don't work anymore really. That's, you know, ultimately your problem 'cause your cash flow is not there. The rents don't cover the mortgage and the other costs that you've had and any things that you go going forward. So it's like, well, what's the point of doing it? Well, these higher rents mean you can. All of a sudden the numbers all start to work again and you could start going out and building your portfolio based on doing a BRR strategy. Fantastic. As an example. I'm going to show you with other strategies too if we get time, but with BRRR you can definitely do it. And it's not, you know, people, the second thing I always get asked is, "Yeah, can I do this, but will I be able to get lending from lenders to be able to get mortgages on these kind of properties?" Yeah, absolutely you will. I've spoken to 1, 2, 3, 5 or 6 now different lenders at director level explained the system, got sign-off from them to say that they are more than happy to lend us both on the mortgage side and on the bridging side. So in essence, you can and will be able to buy properties, get mortgages— between 5% and 6% is the current sort of rates that they've been talking about— and be able to rent these out. Obviously, the yields are way higher So your cash flow after that 5 or 6% mortgage is going to be great. Okay. Um, so long as you do everything properly and correctly. Okay. Um, and if you get a real below market value deal, like, you know, an actual well-valued— We will be launching a new 100% exclusive financing option, which basically means you can, you can do the deal without without your own money ultimately, right? Obviously it has to be a true BMV deal, but it will allow you to bridge and remortgage the property at a price before you actually buy. So you know exactly what that second mortgage is going to look like, what they're going to lend you, how much are they going to value the property for before you even make your offer on the property. And we'll be launching that in April for members of our— Okay. Of our group because we know and the lenders know that the yields and the cash flow is so strong that they're going to get paid. So they're not worried as much that they'll have to repossess your properties. So that, you know, it's really about that. And we'll launch that soon. April at the moment is the date. So now if you want to do BRR, all of a sudden the cash flow works again and it's, You know, it's great, simple, easy, and you know, it's my favourite strategy. It was the first strategy that I ever did. When I first got into property, I went out and I did, you know, I think the first 15 houses I bought were all BRRR. I bought them, I refurbished them, refinanced them, and rented them out. Sold a couple, but mainly kept them and built my portfolio. And over time, lots and lots of really good investors have done the same. But now that strategy struggles to work pretty much. Because when you've done all the work, you've rented it out, your costs are £900 a month with your mortgage and everything, and you're getting £1,100, there's not enough in there to cover any maintenance and all the other issues that you have. Which is why you need a strategy that makes sense, right? But it also works with lots of different strategies. So for example, with assisted sales, so that's another strategy that we created 15 or 16, probably longer than that, years ago. I actually created this strategy accidentally. I was, I went to someone's house and he wanted to sell his property and I was I was negotiating with him and I was like, look, the amount you owe and what I need it for, I want it 20% below what it's worth. There's not enough money in there for me to be able to sell it for you. So look, I'm going to leave. And he goes, oh no, wait, wait, wait a second, please. I really like you. I really need some help. Is there something else that you could do? And I was like, well, not really. It's not worth me buying it. By the time I buy it and put it back on the market, it's not going to work. He was like, well, is there anything else? And I was like, 'Well, actually you want £110,000.' I can't remember the exact numbers. 'You want £110,000 and I could probably sell it for £120,000, but it's not worth me doing that because, you know, by the time you put your costs, your lawyers and everything, it's just not worth it.' But then by doing it as an assisted sale, I was able to make that £10,000 without having to buy the property. And that's basically how assisted sales started. And then because I did it once, I thought, 'Oh, this works really well for vendors and for me, so let me systemise it, make it legal.' create all the right contracts, and hence that's what we did. But with this new system, the reason why it works so well is because landlords are now stuck in this problem, right? So there's a lot of landlords who've got these properties, they want pretty much full market value for them, but they can't get it because there's not great yields on it. But imagine if you put someone in and you were getting £4,000 for a property that's worth £150,000. Yeah. Do you think there'd be a load of investors who want to buy that property? Absolutely. So now all you have to do is take the current tenants, or if it's a vacant property, and put one of these or these type of tenants into those properties and then sell them to investor clients. So it gives you a whole way of being able to do assisted sales. Awesome. Same with title splits. The rents are way higher. So when you're doing the title splits, all of a sudden they stack up And again, we've spoken to lenders, made sure that they're happy that we can structure title splits and they'll let us do them, they're quite happy. But one of the ones that really fascinates me and is interesting is you can do real vendor financing deals here because you've got so much extra cash flow each month, you can structure vendor financing deals where you're paying them an extra £1,000 or £2,000 a month every month. And over 10 years you can pay off the house.

Yeah.

And you know, that's not really been possible with the vendor financing deals at the minute. The way they've always been structured is that at the end, what you're going to do is refinance the whole property and, you know, by refinancing, then be able to pay them off. But now all of a sudden you can come up with some really cool different ways to do vendor financing. So I'm really excited, as you could probably tell, because all of these really interesting strategies I created you know, 20, 18 years ago, I can now redo them with really new twists and make them even better than they were before. Okay, and obviously you can do the same thing with lease options, 'cause now I could take a lease option, give the guy a guaranteed rent of £1,000 a month, and I'm getting £3,000 a month, so great bit of money in between, right? And many, many more, pretty much every strategy can be improved with this systems and I'll be talking and showing you more about how you can do that. Okay. So if this is something you want to do and you think you want to get involved and understand it more, then I'm going to be doing a deep dive next week.

Tuesday and Wednesday?

On Tuesday and Wednesday for the Property Filter Guys and talking about it. We'll do some case studies. I'll take you through some of the stuff that we've done today, but in a lot more detail. Then you should be able to understand if it's, you know, if it's something you wanna do. I'll explain how it all works and then you can decide if it's what you wanna do or not ultimately. So this is the QR code for registering for that masterclass. It's completely free. You don't have to pay for the masterclass itself. And in that, I'm gonna explain exactly what we're doing, how we do it, whether you guys wanna be involved or not. And at the end of that masterclass, you'll be able to make an informed decision as to whether or not this system is something that you guys want to do. I am just checking if the QR code works, which is always useful. If somebody could say in the chat whether or not the QR code works, that'd be great.

No, it doesn't work.

Bear with us one second, we're going to try and—

It does work. It does work.

It does work? Okay, it should work now. Okay, try again. Yep, okay, it's working. All right, so if you register, and you know, we'll go through it all properly and in detail. I'm still around now for a while to answer any questions. I haven't had a chance to look at the chat, so we'll go through that now and answer your questions as as we go along.

So cool. So the first question was, yeah, understanding the specification, the properties need to be, and so you sort of talk about some of the compliance stuff. So do you want to tell us a bit more about, you know, a bit more about what you know, like what interaction needs to be made to the property? How do you make it ready?

Yeah, so depending on what it is, if it's a HMO type property that you're going to do, you basically have to follow whatever the HMO HMO regulations are in your council area. You don't obviously need planning for those properties and you don't need licensing in the same way because residential social landlords are exempt from the HMO rules. So they're able to take on those properties even in an Article 4 area, even in an area that the council doesn't want more HMOs. so they're able to do that. But you have to make sure you've got the right fire regulations, the fire doors, the smoke alarms, etc. But we'll give you a full breakdown of all that stuff and what's involved and what needs to be done. But it's not, you know, overly complex or overly arduous stuff. It's, it's normal basic stuff. If you're just doing a studio, then you need a fire alarm, obviously, and you need— Um. Fire doors on that studio, right? But other than that, it's same. All the properties have to be furnished to be able to get the higher rents. But other than that, we're not talking about making them super, you know, high-end type things. That's not what we're— that's not the idea behind them. These are nice properties that are in good condition and are safe and clean for people to live in.

So is this— where is it working? Is it England and Wales?

Yeah, so currently it works everywhere in England. We're hoping to get Welsh government sign-off by March, at which point it should start working in Wales. We're just waiting for sign-off for that.

Okay, so Raj has a question, it was answered, but so I'll expand a bit on that. So on which property types would this work?

Okay. So it works really well for like 3-bedroom, 2-reception houses because you can turn those into 4-bed mini HMOs. It works really well for 4-bed, 2-reception houses. You can change them into 5. It works for existing HMOs if you really want to swap them onto the system. And in some cases it's better to do that. In some cases it's not, but that's a decision you make. It also works if you've got studios or 1-bed flats, 2-bed flats, So it works on pretty much every property type. If you've got larger properties, then this particular system does not work.

So is it 6-bed max?

I would say 6 or 7 beds is the maximum that you can do. But if you had like 15 bedrooms or 20 bedrooms, then there's other strategies that you would do instead of that. But for anything up to sort of 6 and 7 bedrooms, it works.

Okay. Then Fati was asking, Does it work just in Birmingham or any other country?

No, so like I said, it works all over the country. I live in Birmingham, which is why I gave you the numbers for Birmingham.

So if you have an existing portfolio and you want to transfer your properties to these, do you need to change your mortgage product?

Yeah, so depends on the mortgage product you have. Some do, some don't. What you definitely need to do is have a different insurance policy that covers you for social housing. We've created a bespoke insurance policy that works and covers and all the lenders are happy with. And again, we can introduce you to the people and it's not any more expensive than your current insurance policies, maybe like £30 or £40 more, but pretty much the same. Some lenders are happy, some lenders don't, but there's at least 5 or 6 lenders that are more than happy to lend against this type of tenants.

I'll read David's question word by word. So who is the CQC registered provider in this ecosystem?

Okay. So let me explain that. So a lot of people won't even know what CQC is. So the CQC is the Care Quality Commission, and if you're providing care to people, then you have to— well, you should be Care Quality Commission compliant. However, most of the care companies and the care providers are not currently In this system, you are not providing any care, so you never provide care for the tenants. You're only providing accommodation, and therefore, as you're only providing accommodation, you do not need any CQC. And most of the tenants that we would be, you know, you'd be screening and putting in, and the ones that you want to put in are ones that don't need a care plan. They just need— they're on Universal Credit, maybe PIP, and they need housing. Not necessarily the care. So the care does not need to be provided by you, and you never want to do that because the truth is this— the current system does not work. And this is the first stage to break the current system and stop it. So that, you know, having those care companies— the first stage is to create this, allow people to have accommodation, and there to be enough accommodation so that the government can then go and to say, all the care companies now who are currently working and doing this stuff need to be CQC, and if they're not, they're gonna close them down. If they were to do that tomorrow, where would they house all of those people? So over the next year or two, I assume what they're going to do is they're gonna bring in legislation to say that if you're providing care, you have to be regulated. And once this system that we've got is up and running and all over the place, they've got an alternative to be able to house those people.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but Yeah, the way this came about is a bit surreal, right? So it's like the LHA rates are really low, so unattractive for private landlords. Really, the only one using LHA rates are the housing associations, which are building that purpose. And it's just broken, right? It doesn't work, it's not attractive, and there's not enough housing stock, you know, for all the people that need this housing. And so the councils have got a duty of care where they need to house all these vulnerable people, people who turn up on their list homeless, or for all sorts of different reasons. And the only channel they had was, oh, we have this care provider type channel, you know?

Correct.

And they've used and abused this and overpaid for it where people didn't need the care as the only way to house people. And it become bloated into this horrible, you know, this kind of horrible scandalous situation now where they paid over the odds and knowingly they are sending people to care providers that I know they knowingly know, that they suck and they, they just, they don't have another solution, right? So now the government is going aggressively after these by making, uh, makes an appeal to the private, uh, sector, basically the private rental sector, to make it, uh, basically the attractive rents so that we, we go into this. It's paid directly by central government at 25-30% below what's, what's the currently the cost for society. The council love it because it gets all of these people they want to transfer out of there. And they want to starve, you know, this created mess, you know, of non-compliant cowboys, you call them, you know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Is that right?

Absolutely right. You know, what Guillaume said is exactly, hit the nail on the head. That's the issue, that's the problems that they've had, and this is their solution. And we've piloted that solution in different parts of the country, and now we're pushing it out nationwide. And there is no, There is no other solution. This is the only way that they can fix this problem. And the quicker that they get more people into the system and more properties, the quicker they'll be able to regulate and license the care providers that are currently the cowboy ones and close down the ones who are not doing a good job at all and in general clean up the whole sector.

So to answer David's question on who is the registered provider, there isn't as such, you know.

There isn't a CQC. But there has to be a residential social landlord, and the residential social landlord needs to be in place as they're the only ones that can get paid directly from DWP and get the higher rents. As a normal landlord, you're not going to get the higher rents. It has to go through a housing association, RSL.

So if you remember the diagram where it's money moves from DWP to the RSL, most of this 25% fees actually goes to the RSL.

Right.

That's all right.

And there's a tenant management company that manages the tenant and keeps on top of their forms, calls them up once every week and has a Zoom call to make sure that they have everything they need. So all of that is built into the system and that's part of the 25% that they take.

Then Steve, do property need to comply with EPC requirements?

Yeah, of course they have to comply with all the, you know, all the basic requirements that are— that you need to have. They have to have gas certificates, they have to have electrical certificates, they have to have all the basic stuff, but nothing above and beyond is what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, awesome. Uh, sorry, I'm skipping, uh, different places. Uh, I've lost where we were now. Sorry. No worries. Every time you type something in the chat, it moves. Uh, Jen was asking, and I'll come back to the other questions after. So What about licensing and Article 4 and planning?

Yeah, so like I said, you don't need a— so, for example, you don't need a license or planning to turn a 3-bedroom, 2-reception house into a 4-bed, so long as you're doing it through our system with an RSL in place. You can't do it yourself, but you can do it through an RSL because an RSL has exemption rights.

Okay, awesome. I think my old chat has all gone mixed up. I don't know. To show one, so I'll do my best to get everyone. So I think we had Caroline. Does it work in any location and any property size?

Yes, like we said, it works for anywhere in England at the moment and for lots of different properties. Anything above 7 beds, you could do it, but it's not right. So we've done it on a block of flats of 6 flats, for example, 2 bedrooms each, but each individual unit shouldn't really be more than 6 or 7. Beds. And it works everywhere in England. Hopefully by April, it should work in Wales too. There's some pilots going on at the moment. Once we get sign-off, then we'll be able to do that. And sorry, but I haven't looked at Scotland at all. Everything's different in Scotland. So you'd have to, you know, I'd have to rejiggle lots of things. So maybe in 6 months, we'll, we'll look at that. But at the moment, the England and Wales should be coming on soon.

And on the matter of size, so you've got a minimum room standard, so we need to be 6.51 square meters and above, which is similar to the HMO ones.

Yeah, absolutely, room size.

I think lots of people are thinking about, is it available in different areas? I think we answered that. Just asking, I have a few studios getting the LHA rates for £573. How much would you be getting the new rate?

Depending you know, where you live, but we're talking sort of £1,000 for that same studio, £1,000 plus. I think it was £1,200 for a studio. Depends on your area, but it'll be between sort of £1,000 and £1,400, I would have thought.

Raj asking a good question. So I could develop an HMO in an Article 4 area and be exempt from planning and all that?

Correct.

Which is what people are already doing.

Yeah, that's exactly what people are doing. That's what we've done. So it's it's allowing you to do that, and the government need it because they need to house these people somewhere.

So I had to ask you for masterclass next week. So it's Tuesday evening and Wednesday lunchtime next week, and the idea there, and it's going to go more into more details about how you can become a partner and how it works, you know, how it works in more details, you know. So, uh, could you go over the slides with the horseman again? Yeah, we found it. Let's go and find it.

I call it a cowboy, but no, it was my attempt of trying to say there's a lot of cowboys in this industry. So let me just— this is how the current system works, where you have on the left-hand side you've got RSLs, Department of Work and Pensions, councils, NHS, etc. They pay these care companies to provide care and to provide accommodation or a house for the tenant. The tenant quite often does not need the care, but the only way for them to get the property is for them to get care and the house. And what the government basically wants to do is to break that so that you no longer have the care and the house from the same person going forward. The accommodation would be given directly by you, as a landlord, and if there is any care needs, they would be provided separately by a care company, not you ultimately.

Okay, are rates the same all over the area? So they vary a little bit?

Yeah, so oops, so are the rates the same was the question? No, so in general, for example, for the rooms, I said Birmingham was £330 per week per room, That would vary sort of between £300 and £350 depending where it is in the country, maybe even £370 for some central London areas.

So the more people in the property, the lower the rates per room. Yeah, it's like—

No, it's—

The studio is like £450.

No, it just— so you get a room rate and you get a studio rate. It's not how many people are in the properties per room. So just like with LHA rates, you get a room rate and then you get a studio rate, then you get a one-bedroom rate. And then a 2-bedroom rate.

Okay. How do you assess demand in, in your areas, you know? So where—

Yeah, good, really good question, right? How many people? Well, the easiest way to do it is to have a property and to put up on OpenRent or on SpareRoom or Rightmove, etc. And say you've got this house and you're open to Universal Credit tenants, and then you will get inundated in general. So we, you know, we did one in Coventry and we had 12 rooms available, so 6 flats, 2-bedroom each in a block, and we had like 50+ people in 2 days apply.

The 2-bed flat we are onboarding for me now, we had like 20 applications on the first day.

Yeah, so we're doing one for Guillaume and 20 applications in the first day. Obviously you're going to screen through, choose the ones you want, but it's your choice, right? You find the right person. The demand is there at the minute anyway. Yeah, I think that's two of the same question from James and Raj.

Who pays the utilities? So it's different for flats and houses.

Yeah, so if it's a HMO, then just like a normal HMO, you pay the utilities. If it's a flat, then generally, again, depending on the setup, you'd either pay or they pay. But either way, your cash flow covers it.

I think there's lots of confusion about do you negotiate the lease with providers? It's really not the case. So Nick's saying, so just to clarify, if we have a property, come to you, we discuss the property, if the property is right or not for a particular tenant, and you will fill it, you negotiate the lease with a provider. So let's explain this.

Yeah, so first of all, there's no providers, right? I'm going to fully explain this on next week, right? But in essence, you become a partner with us. You go, it's your property or you found a, it's a rent-to-rent property, you bring it to us, we onboard the property for you and you find the tenant or you can use a letting agent, et cetera, to manage that process for you. They can find the tenant and manage the property depending on how you want to structure it. If you use a letting agent, they have to be approved to be able to use our system. So they have to understand our system, et cetera. Etc. And you can, you know, you can just hand it off to them and they'll find the tenant for you or whatever. We do have tenants centrally that we can offer to you, but honestly, at the minute, the demand is there and there's plenty of tenants. And depending on whether you're going to do it yourself and you're going to screen tenants yourself, or you're going to use local letting agents, that's up to you.

The second question: do houses need any special needs for tenant type, like wider doorframe?

No, So this is not specialist supported living, which is a different thing. This is exempt. So the people in this system are not generally— they don't need wheelchair access. They're not on the autism scale and stuff. This is more for people like veterans that have been in the Army and they can't find nowhere to live. They may have some issues, but nothing major, right? Battered women who've broken up in a marriage and they need somewhere to stay. It's those kinds of people, generally homeless people. It's for those kinds of tenants that you're going to be housing in general, which is great, right? You know, it's great to be able to house a mum and child in a, you know, in your one-bed flat. You get paid really well for it, she gets somewhere to stay, and she's not stuck in some hostel somewhere, which is currently the position that she'll be in.

I'm not sure what Brian means, but he's asking what happens if another operator works in the same council area independently.

Yeah, it depends on, you know, there will be, over time, there will be other people that will come into this market. Of course there will, you know, there's going to be other people that want to do it. But for your properties, you want to get them on, you want to get the tenants in, and these tenants will stay long term, right? That's the whole beauty of the system. I've got Universal Credit type tenants or DSH tenants who've been in my properties for like 18 years plus. And once they're in, they don't leave, which is great.

Okay. How does the strategy work with flips?

Good question, David.

Package basically.

Yeah, so you could, I mean, look, one of the problems when you flip a deal, the biggest concern is what do I get when I sell it? How quick can I sell it? If you had an investor's type property, so I kind of alluded to this again with assisted sales, I was kind of talking about it there. But if you wanted to just do a flip and you bought bought a property and you wanted to flip it out, if you told the next investor, I've got tenants lined up and you're going to get extra, this much extra cash flow, and lenders are happy to lend, then those investors are much more likely to buy that property quicker.

And you benefit from the cash flow once you hold it, right?

Absolutely. You can benefit from that cash flow. You can structure different types of flip deals, which we don't have the time to go into now.

But specifically, like, people who do, like, blocks of flats, you know, like, all of a sudden, you do your commercial to raise it to sell, you're going to sell this to investors a lot of the time, then you get it filled up and instead of costing you, costing you, costing you until you sell the last one, it's making you, making you. So you're not in a hurry to sell.

Exactly, you're not in a rush. So we are obviously speaking to lots of developers who are sort of got properties and can't currently sell them because, you know, the market for apartments is really down across the country and they're looking to flip them into this rental model instead. And then refinance.

So Fati is asking, how do you stack a deal? You know, like today I'm looking at a property, I'm looking at a 3 and 4 bed, how do I know that? What sort of rent assumption would I put in here?

Yeah, so next week we should have some maps which you can basically log into and have a look and it'll give you exactly how much rent you're getting for those properties and based on the type. So if it's a studio, how much rent you'll get, if it's a 1 bed, and for your area and you can just put the postcode details in and basically look at what the, what rents you would get. And then once you've got that, you, you know that's what I'm getting, and then you can start the rest of the deal accordingly.

Yeah, so, uh, is the licensing contract with council? If so, is it similar to a lease agreement?

So the license is between the tenant and the RSL, not with the council direct. So, and then the Department of Work and Pensions makes the payment, not the councils, directly through a partner program that they've created for us, which allows the payment to go directly into the bank account. So you don't have to chase tenants, you don't have to worry about whether the tenant's paid or not. They pay directly to us and makes the life a lot simpler.

So yeah, lots of confusion. I think, you know, like, next question is, how long are the lease? 3, 5, 7 years? Are they self-repairing?

There's no lease In that sense, right? Yeah, I mean you can give leases to, if you're doing it on rent to rent, but that's your choice and how you structure the leases is up to you. But think of this as a normal rent, you're going to give it out on a normal rent to a normal tenant in a normal way. If you want long-term leases, there is that supported living system out there, but they will give you £1,200 to £1,400 on a 3-year lease instead of £4,500. And they will keep that money. So what we're trying to, uh, what we've created and what we're doing is, why should I give my property to a care company for, um, or a care provider for, you know, for £1,200? And I have done because I, you know, at the time it was the best solution, and they're giving me £1,200, and I know they're getting £5,000 for that property. It just, it's a no-brainer. I'd rather keep it myself. And now that I don't need to provide the care, I can keep myself.

Yeah, uh, interesting. Why didn't they just increase the LHA rate to solve this problem?

Good question. There, there is talk about increasing the LHA rates, but, um, you're just stalling, stalling. It's just, it's just never gonna— it's just, they're just not gonna get around to it.

You just couldn't agree on—

It's just too complicated because also this is only a small segment of the overall market, right? This is the people who are vulnerable, considered high risk, need a home straight away because they're homeless, or they're, you know, battered mom or a veteran. Whereas the entire market of LHA is anyone who's on a Universal Credit and living in a house everywhere. If they were to increase all LHA rates, I just don't think they've got the money to do that. But to house those people who are on their lists that need to be housed, this is a solution that fixes that problem.

Okay, so I think we kind of seen this earlier, but it's like, how do I assess the demand for an area? How do I know I can go and build a 4-bed HMO in some place and I'll be able to fill it? You know, especially if there's DSS tenants everywhere as well.

Yeah, there are tenants everywhere. I mean, obviously certain places there won't be, but it's easy to find out the demand by basically looking to see if you were to advertise in a place. So if you've got an existing HMO and you advertise for it and you say DSS welcome, Universal Credit welcome, and you get inundated like Guillaume got, how many was it?

20 in one day.

20 applications in one day that he posted it up, right? For his flat.

But part of the system, you have also access to like waiting lists and stuff. You kind of have a bit of an idea. Yeah, we got— 180,000 people. People waiting?

Yeah, there's lots and lots and lots of people waiting for, you know, for this across the country. Every council has massive waiting lists. We're in the middle of— some reason why I haven't said it— we're in the middle of creating a tenant portal that we can get all of those tenants into, which would then give, you know, us access to those council waiting lists to make it easier to find the tenants. But to be honest, at the minute it's not been a problem, so it's not something we prioritise. There seems to be more than enough tenants right now. Come 2 years' time, absolutely not, because everybody who needs to be housed is going to be housed, right? Then it will become much more difficult. But we've got 2 years to go out and get as many of these properties and house as many people as we can, or move our portfolios across, which is what we're doing.

Okay, uh, you have to do a few more questions there.

Uh, yeah, I can do a couple more questions.

Yes. Uh, what happens if there is an antisocial behavior at the property? Who deals with it? Who moves them out? Do people have like notice periods?

How do you— Yeah, so if there's any kind of antisocial behaviour, they can be chucked out straight away because they're on licences and not on an AST. And that basically would be enforced by the police who would turn up. You don't have to go to court for these kind of things. So on the HMOs, there's no need to go to court. It's simple, you just chuck them out in because they're under licenses and they normally have a 7-day notice. But if it's like they're damaging property or something, it can be done even quicker. If you're giving someone a complete property of their own, so for example, a studio or a 1-bed flat, and there's only 1 person in that property, then even though the RSL is exempt, they still come under— they come under another rule which says a self-contained property is automatically an AST. So they would be on an AST and you would have to go through the normal AST rules in order to get them out. But again, in the meantime, you would continue to get paid because you'd get paid directly from DWP. Whereas if you had that problem now and you had a tenant in a studio and you were trying to evict them and you couldn't evict them, it's probably going to take you 9 months to get them out and they're not going to pay in those 9 months. usually.

Yep. So does the landlord find the tenants? So you as a partner find tenants?

Yeah, absolutely. You as a partner would find a tenant just like Guillaume did, advertising on OpenRent and so on, and you'll get inundated. Or you can use one of your local— a local letting agent that you like and you trust and who's probably managing your properties already, and they would advertise and bring the tenant and screen them for you and do what they normally do as a letting Yeah.

How do we implement this in deal sourcing when packaging a deal?

Yeah, good question. So we're already starting to do this and basically all you have to do is get the tenant ready to move in and say there's a tenant that's available and these are the tenants or 5 tenant potential. This is how much rent you're going to get and you show that to the investor so the investor can see what their rental income is. They're happy and they understand that this is, you know, that they can get this and that there are X number of lenders that will lend against it, and this is the rate that those lenders will give based on, you know, the investor's credit score being clean.

So you can do it in a couple of ways actually. So you could set it up as the landlord investor buying that property becomes a partner of that scheme so that you can go and do that, but you kind of package your lobby to reduction. Or you can set it up where you, you've got a back-to-back lease with the new investor. So you, you own this relationship and you own it with— and all of a sudden, you not only do you get paid for every, every sort of property you sell on that scheme, but you might get a spread of £300, £500 per month per property by the, the way you've structured, uh, like a rent-to-rent agreement, you know. So basically, you sell those properties with a guaranteed lease which is very attractive. You know, if it's 50% above the normal rent, a lot of people will be happy with it. And then you can make a spread with it and stock it.

Yeah, exactly. So you could start getting paid every month as well as the sourcing fee upfront. You can get a monthly fee and so on by building in back-to-back leasing into the deal as well. Look, the opportunities around here are really, really cool. I mean, every strategy can basically get better by using this system. And, you know, honestly, we've done it all. We've done deal sourcing, we've done everything. We had the largest deal sourcing company, uh, sort of 15 years ago in the UK, uh, sourcing everywhere. So I understand all this space, I understand. I've been in this market for a long time, and, you know, I'm really excited by the— by, by this. And we've spent a long time figuring it all out, making sure it all works, and putting everything together so that we can actually go out and get loads of new lease options, loads of new properties, move our existing portfolios across.

And then— Yeah, because so far you were constrained to buy only in Birmingham, and now you're like, okay, now this is quite passive to manage.

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, most of our portfolio is in Birmingham currently, not all of it, but most of it. And it was because of management, but also because of cash flow. But now, because the cash flow is so much better, I'm happy to buy stuff all over the place, right?

So yeah. Yeah. Can you explain what's an RSL and how does that work and why do you need the RSL in the mix and the relationship created with your system?

Yeah, so an RSL is a Residential Social Landlord. So for example, a housing association. The reason only an RSL or a housing association is allowed to be a partner with the DWP, so the Department of Work and Pensions, so that they can then get paid directly from DWP, also they're allowed to get claim the higher rents. As a normal landlord, I can normally get the LHA rent and only the LHA rents. So for Birmingham, that might be £70, £80 a week per room. But as an RSL, I can claim all of the extra things. So for example, the property's furnished, I need cleaning the hallways, and I need cleaning— But all these different things that I would normally I can claim for all of them, holding the keys, locked, et cetera. And all of a sudden that can then become, for a room now, instead of it being 80 quid and whatever, I can get £330 as an RSL. But only RSLs or housing associations, which are the same thing, are allowed to get that kind of money. And that's really why we need them. So we need them because they're the ones who have the—

They're on the framework.

Yeah, within the framework, only RSLs have the agreement to become part of the DWP scheme. WP, and then the RSL subcontracts it out to us to manage and find the properties for them. And that's basically the way the system works.

What happens if the tenant loses their benefits whilst they are renting with you?

So that's what the tenant management companies, therefore they keep on top of that. If they lose their benefits or whatever, they leave and you replace them with a new tenant.

Yeah. Recording. So you can find the recordings the usual place of this. So one, you can watch the recording today in the calls, and you look at previous calls, you'll have this and transcript and everything. And then tomorrow it'd be part of the video library, Libero video library tab, you know, on the left side of the community. Who pays the utility bills? So on flats, the tenants usually, and on houses—

Depending exactly how this system is going to be structured, but we'll let you know that on Monday for sure.

Yeah, so we talk about artificial behavior, we talked about this. Can commercial property be used for this, say, ground floor, 2-bed, things like that. So you have to be turning to resi, right?

Yeah, it has to be a residential property. You can't pop them into a shop or whatever. But if you— I'm assuming you mean if you convert a commercial property into a residential, then yes.

Yep. Minimum space standard, so your room needs to be 6.51 square meters minimum. Yeah.

Yeah.

How long does it take to onboard a property?

So Depends, 'cause you'll have a whole load of things, a checklist that we provide, and you need to do all of those things. They will, you know, on average, it's probably taking 2 to 4 weeks to onboard them. Then you've obviously got to check your tenant and make sure that you're happy with them and everything. But probably 2 to 4 weeks on average. Once you are, so we need to show you all the things that you, if you want to be a partner and want to do this with us, we need to go through a load of stuff with you, we need to train you and show you what you need to do. One of the things we check, for example, is a DBS check. So we make sure that you're not got a criminal record or anything and you're going to be a good landlord. And once we've shown you the systems, it doesn't take long after that.

Who pays for the damages? Again, there's no lease, you know, all along the lease is 3, 5, 7 years. Can you explain again? Yeah.

In terms of the damages, you are responsible. You can get insurance products for that, but ultimately you are. So, but you are screening the tenants, right? You're not, it's not like giving this to a care company and hoping for the best, which is what normally used to happen. You will now talk to all of these tenants if you want to and choose the ones you want and decide. And if they are causing a problem, you can, because they're on a licence, you can ask them to move out and get 'em out, right? So that's the beauty of it. It's giving you back control of your property. If you want to, you can give it on longer-term leases, and we will be offering a solution to people on a 3-year lease if they want with us. And, you know, but you're going to get a lot less rent. My advice to everyone is do it yourself because you're going to get, you know, maximum rents. If you don't want to, and some people don't, and we're happy to give you guaranteed lease agreements.

Does this work on short lease properties?

Good question. Yes, absolutely, absolutely can work. And it's one of our strategies that we're really pushing because obviously you can get a short lease property a lot cheaper, so the yields will be absolutely amazing.

Yeah, yeah, pays for your London flats, right, over time. How long do you think the government will support these rates?

Yeah, another good question. How long will they, will they carry on doing this? Um, the problem is for them, they've got no other solution. So it's taken them 7 years to get to this point, to get this. So for them to come up with something new, I just can't see them ever coming up with something new. They're just going to carry on for as long as, uh, as long as there's a housing shortage.

Advice, would you do this on flats or houses?

So we're doing it on both currently. So everything. Yeah, it's more rent, right? So why wouldn't you? Would I do it on a £3 million flat in central London? No, because the numbers don't work. But other than that, you know, it works.

Question is, are there only 3 types of tenants allowed there? Is it only homeless, single moms?

No, there's a whole load of different lists. And on Tuesday, I'll go through different types of tenants and so on. And again, you'll know exactly how much you can get for the different types of tenant before you put that tenant in. But there's lots of different categories of tenants that can be put into these properties.

In terms of the houses, what's your view on en-suites versus shared bathroom? What's your thoughts on ratio of people? Yes, you can get more for 6, 7, but really, do you want it?

Yeah, so look, this comes down to like a normal HMO, right? What do you want? What's the demand? If in your area the demand for these kinds of properties is everybody's got en suites and so on, then ultimately that's what you're going to have to do, right? But right now this demand is really high and there isn't availability, so people are quite happy with non-en suites. All the properties we currently have that we've given to other care companies before we set up this system, none of them have en suites. Okay. They're just normal bedrooms. And the ones that we're currently putting on don't have en suites. You don't need to, there's plenty of demand.

So can you explain a bit more how you swap the tenants? You know, if there's a bad tenant, you know, there, so it's— you talk about the license. Yeah, so practically, if there's a bad tenant, no fault eviction is like 7 days.

So it's not a no fault eviction because it's not an AST. So basically 7 days if a tenant. Yeah, if you just want that tenant out for whatever reason, just like you give them notice, they're on a license, they have to leave in 7 days. If they don't, you can call the police and the police will throw them out. Generally, that will be done through the RSL. So we notify the RSL and say to them, look, this tenant's causing us problems, can you issue the notice? And they will. Okay.

So if they are like, I want to kick them out today.

If they're causing a problem, they're attacking other tenants, or they're damaging the property, then again we notify the RSL, RSL notify them and escalate that for a police officer to come and escort them off premises ultimately.

Manisha's got properties under this scheme and it's paid in arrears. Moving forward, should this be set up as a license type agreement? So it might be something soon.

Yeah, so Manisha's got— you would have had this, but you won't have this scheme It will, because no one's got it at the minute. The scheme that you will have is where you're getting it from a care provider. In the same way as the care providers, you get paid 6 weeks in arrears, which is what I said to you before, but they will be giving you a lot lower rents compared to what you would get if you're doing the accommodation yourself. This is the whole point of—

Or you can go direct.

Is you can go direct. Because you don't now have to provide any of the care and the support to the tenant, you're only providing the accommodation. As landlords, that's something we can do. We understand how to give a house, we understand if the boiler's not working, what to do, you know, you've got a contract with British Gas or whoever, and it can be fixed, right? What we don't know how to do, and what we don't want to be getting involved in, is providing care. And the whole purpose of this is to split the two things separately. If you don't want to do it, and you just want to give it to a care company, you can, but you're going to get much, much lower rents, because they're giving—

You can give it to anyone in this room, right?

Yeah, and I'm happily take them off you, right? But my advice is do it yourself just like we are because you're going to get way more rent.

Will I be able to listen to this session again? Yes. So if you go into the calls tab and you go as past events, you can listen to the call straight away when this closes. And then tomorrow the recording is also going into the video library tab there. Does this work with one-bed apartments? I'm onboarding a one-bed and a 2-bed apartments at the moment. So it still works, you get double the rent. One I think went from £600 a month. I'm gonna get, you know, like sort of net after all costs, et cetera, like £1,200 or £1,300 a month. And then the 2-bed going from £1,100 a month to, I think, £2,150 a month.

Okay.—

Yeah, and so going over one bed like I did just now, and then the three bed, it's, uh, so if you think 300, and as a gross rule of thumb, you go £330 per room times your three rooms, then you take 75% of that, and that's your £740 per week times 4.3, that's £3,000 £3,150 rent that comes to you basically before your cost. Yeah, that was for Simon. Does resi units above shops count too?

Can you— Yeah, you can do it above shops if you want. You can do it anywhere. Obviously, like I said before, the property has to be nice. It can't be, you know, can't have damp, can't have mold. We won't accept those. But if your property is clean, good, it can be anywhere, wherever there's demand, that tenants will move in.

Are the costs of becoming a partner be shared next week?

Yeah, absolutely. Any costs, everything will be fully explained, exactly what you need to do and how it all works.

And then specifically, how much do you cost?

Good question. I'll explain it to you tomorrow. But honestly, if you're serious, it's not going to cost you Yeah, it's a no-brainer.

I paid for it. Yeah, we buy happily.

And I'll show you how it's done. We make money from you onboarding properties and keeping them onboarded long term. So it's in my interest to make it as easy as possible for anyone to bring these properties. And that's our whole process. What we do need, obviously, is that the properties are are clean, good, and in good condition, and that the people who are managing those or subbing it out to their letting agents understand the processes of what it takes to manage a property properly.

Yes, all the questions about how do I become a partner is very much the reason why you want to come next week. I know the guys are still working on onboarding because they expect quite a lot of demand, so we're not quite ready to put the gates and get everyone in today, right? But that's what's happening now. Question about, you know, becoming a partner as a prop sourcer. It's going to be the same setup as anyone else. So this is sort of an application, you know, but you need to be a—

Yeah, we've got to make sure you're a proper person, you don't have criminal records, etc., you understand the processes. We will have a load of training for you to explain everything.

Incredibly, I was approved, right?

Yeah, obviously we piloted it with some people and partners across the country are already doing it before we launch out with everyone else, right? And Guillaume was one of our guinea pigs.

And it's going through the process now, and we need to like put the fire alarm and stuff. So actually making one bedroom larger in a flat, right? So do you need CCTV in communal areas?

You don't need CCTV. There's no requirement for it. You can put it in if you want to. It's your choice.

So do you have options in choosing specific type of tenants? Yeah, you choose, you choose. So long as they're—

I mean, some people only want to do single moms, for example, or only want to do battered women and that because they want to help those kind of people. That's your choice, right? It's your property, you're fully in control, you choose the tenant and you do what you want, right? Other people want to do it for veterans, other people want to do it for different types of people.

It's your choice. Awesome. Anif, I think that's all the questions. So that was really great.

Okey-dokey.

Can I please ask a question?

Because you didn't understand my question. I am going to be busy both days and I really want this program because I already put my name down for Wednesday, but I might not fully be there.

Would you send the recording? I would probably send the recording, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we sort something out.

Essentially, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, you know, as Anif said, everyone's interest. So for me, like, the— it's going to make you a lot better at doing deals. You can make the deal stack again, so it means you're going to be more successful. You're going to make so much money, you want to stay on Property Twitter forever. And if, you know, it allows you to get on board more and more property under the scheme, so all that will be explained. So we, uh, we want to make it as easy and inclusive for, you know, everyone in the community to, to be able to join. You know, it's really the, the thing.

Okay.

Awesome. Any sort of closing sentiment, honey?

No, thank you everyone. I hope you enjoyed the, the call. And like I said, every now and then there is a, uh, a step change in the way people invest and what happens. So, you know, first it was lease options, then it was same-day remortgages and other things over the years, and this is the next step change, you know. And I've always said to people I don't tell people to do stuff that I'm not doing myself, right? I'm doing this myself. I'm getting my friends involved doing it. It's— and it works. We've tested it. We know we can do it. We know we can scale it. And that's why we do it. And that's why we're advising other people, if they want to, to get involved too.

All right.

So you—

and you heard it— you heard it here first, right? So I'm looking forward to it. Crest of the Wave niche strategy. Very exciting for your 2026, right? So we're going to do really well as a community. And thanks a lot, Hanif, for putting all of this framework together and allow us to plug into it, right? So that's really awesome. Thank you everyone. Have a great, great day. And then join me in thanking Hanif. And I look forward to seeing all of you guys.

Thank you everyone. Really appreciate you spending the time.

See you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Have a great day. Bye.