💡The Creative HMO deal that took my portfolio to new heights with Nikolett Hunter

So welcome everyone to this week's Dealfinder Corner. So this is your weekly property talk show brought to you by propsfilter, hosted by myself this time your not so favorite Frenchman because I look a bit of a mess. CEO and co founder at PropsFilter, the UK is highest related platform to find deals and really the idea is we are on a mission to empower our Props investor members to find another thousand deals this year thanks to the propsfifter blueprint. And really the idea for us, the reason why I've been running these since a couple of years is to invite expert guests who will share with you the latest and most current strategies and tactics and secrets who are actually working right now in terms of finding and making deals and the reality of systemizing and running your high platform business in probably so it really is my pleasure to introduce to everyone Nicolette Hunter. So the HMO hunter, as you will see on today's infinal corner, so very, very excited to introduce someone with a super inspiring story. She's originally from Budapest in Hungary and has been living in the UK for since she was 12. Grew up around London and by day she's a senior consultant in a big Fortune 500 tech company. But on the side the weekend is the evenings and on the days like today where we are lucky to have her, she's building an impressive property business focusing on HMOs in reading and flips around the Berkshire area. So her journey to property actually started in quite a fun way. So she picked up English by binge watching Homes under the Armor and she developed a passion for property and the show not only helped her, you know, learn the language and what's happening in property, but very much developed this passion for property and design, you know. And so she's quite a competitive skate, figure skate as well in her spare time. So I'm sure there'll be some metaphor and accolade around that. So she says skating and property have a lot in common. So you fall over a lot and you always get back on your feet and keep going. So really, really happy and excited to hear about Nicolette today. So what you can expect from today's episode. So how can you master the agent game? So discover how to build genuine lasting relationship with estate agents that will keep you ahead of the competition. Become a deal detective strategies. So she'll share strategies to investigate and negotiate like a pro. So you always land the best possible price and the best possible deals and how you can think outside the box so how you'll be able to Uncover the power of creative thinking and unlock hidden value and opportunities no one else can find. So very much looking forward to hearing all about our story and our talk today. So please join me and give Nicolette a massive proposal. Welcome, welcome.

Thank you. Thank you.

Over to you. And I'll hide my messy face now, see you.

Let me share my screen, make sure it works. A little bit of a tech check because once I start presentation mode, I actually can't see anything. So can everybody see my screen okay?

Yes, absolutely. It's awesome. Thank you.

Nice, pretty house. Perfect. Well, Guillaume, you've actually given a lovely introduction, so I think we can skip past this. But. But like Guillaume said, so I have come from Hungary. I've moved here with my family at age 12 where my parents have sat me down one sunny afternoon and just announced that we're moving country. You can imagine my shock to that. But it was all for the best. And you know, they have given me an incredible opportunity here and whatever you put in, you get out, which is amazing. So as Guillaume mentioned, I do work in a Fortune 500 company in a senior technical consultant role. To be honest, I think it is a wonderful background and it's got so many transferable skills into the world of property, a lot of which I'm using at the minute, which is brilliant. And so I am building my wealth through property alongside being a wife, a dog mom, a full time IT consultant and a figure skater. So that's a little bit about me in terms of the property and the property journey I've had. So I started about 12 months ago and I've decided to specialize in HMOs and flips. And the reason being is HMOs here in Reading where I am, are very, very high in demand and are doing very flips. Similarly, you have amazing profit margins down here in the south for it. But obviously with the given stamp duty increases, we had to get a little bit more creative. But there are still a lot of deals to be found and to be made. In the last 12 months, I've sourced over a million pounds worth of property. So much like many people, I've had that misconception at the beginning that you need to have loads of capital to start property. And in fact, if you start with deal sourcing, that can really help you. That can really help you with your experience. Experience. It can really help you with your network, your connections and of course to help that help build that capital, which is what's enabled me to get my first flip project underway, which we're currently going through all of the conveyancing and if all goes well, fingers crossed, it's projected to generate US 300000 pounds in profit. There is a little bit of a trick here. It is sitting on the massive land. So what we're hoping to do with that one is to sell off, slice up the land, sell off with planning permission and then hopefully make some extra bit of profit there as well. And all these opportunities have actually come through Property Filter, which I will talk to you about and I will share with you the HMO deal that I found, which is obviously today's topic, so let's dive into it. So the deal overview, this particular hmo, I'd actually have to say timing is everything. This one we've closed on just around Christmas and I think when most people go off on holiday is when if you strike, you can actually land some amazing deals. So tip number one already is timing. When everyone else is resting. Go and do your. Go and do your due diligence. Go and do and look for property deals because they are the times to be, to be made and to find them. So around Christmas is when we closed on this one. It's a really interesting property. You can see it here on the left hand side. It's got two entrances, but it looks like it was one house before and it had a ground floor flat with three bedrooms and then this side over here is basically a duplex. So the flat is basically a duplex floor flat occupying these two floors with the entrance here. It's a very, very odd shape and layout which I'll get into in a moment. So we started, you know, just like everybody else starts with the viewing side of things. But one thing that I would always recommend is to leave the viewing last. So I've basically done absolutely everything before we even got to the viewing stage. So I ran some initial numbers. I've done quite a lot of due diligence and digging around the area and also I've asked the agent up front upfront if the offer that I'm looking at, so after reverse engineering the numbers, because that's quite important. So typically I will look at a property, look at what the end value could be or you know, the rental income could be, what the refurb costs could be and then come up with a number. So I always start with that and I think Guillem says this over and over again to make sure that you ignore the asking price. The asking price really means nothing. So I've reverse engineered it, landed on a number run it past the estate agent to make sure that it's actually going to be an opportunity that the vendor is looking to accept because if not, there's not much point wasting your time going for viewings. So after I've got the initial go ahead, the maybe the go ahead, I've arranged the viewing. Now, within the viewing, I think it's really important that you build that relationship. And I'll get into a lot more detail as we go along, but I've actually done a bit of a healthy stalk on the estate agent just to kind of understand what makes them tick, what's their background and, you know, just done some initial due diligence on them. And I found out, you know, the guy that was showing me around was very interested in community charity work. So then that's something that we also had in common and I could start talking to him about and open him up a little bit more to create that initial bond. So then to get the most out of the viewing, I then went along to the viewing. Little tip here as well. I scheduled the viewing for the last slot in the afternoon. Now, if you've been to viewings, and I'm guessing a lot of you have been, often the agent will have a 15, 20 minute slot and they will just rush you around because they have to get to their next one. Typically they're back to back and they don't have much leeway. Whereas this way if you have the last slot of the day, it gives you that bit more of a chance that they don't need to rush off, that you might actually be able to talk to them in a bit more detail and really create that relationship. So little tip for you right there and just hope and pray that, you know, they don't have some exciting dinner plans to rush off to. And then I also would recommend. So obviously Today's topic is HMOs. So I actually have my savior tool, which is this little bad boy here, which is my laser measure for floor plans. Because to be honest with you, you can't really take everything that's on the listing for, you know, for granted. It may not be accurate. And with HMOs, it's so super important that you have all of your measurements correct. Things like ceiling height, things like room size, very, very important. It's all about the measurements and HMOs, and obviously you want to make sure that you get that right. Another little tip that I would recommend if you are going into viewing and to get the most out of it, is to record everything I Don't know about you guys, but for me personally, when I go somewhere within five minutes, I'm like, oh, what did he say? Oh, what was that? So even if you just have your iPhone, you can go around and just record yourself or video it just for later reference because it can be really handy. And bring a builder if you can. So. So I actually managed to get my builder in for a second viewing. If you can do it in the first viewing, even better. But this builder was literally the savior to this deal because we figured out there's a lot of stud walls, which again, I will talk to you about in a moment during the viewing. I think it's important to spend, as I've mentioned, a good amount of time building the relationship, qualifying the deal further. And I'll give you some hints and tips in terms of the questioning that I've used to uncover really key nuggets of information with the agent. But let's just go through the motions of how this deal happened. So then the due diligence and your power team. I actually think that due diligence protects your money, but your power team hubs multiply it. And in this case it was very, very true. So when initially, when I researched this deal, I thought it would be a 7 bed HMO at an absolute max, but. And we've negotiated everything as a seven bed, we've ran the numbers as a seven bedroom. But later down the line because we have a very, very good architect who could chop a smartie into 100 pieces, she's actually mentioned that this could actually become a 10 bed, 10 bath HMO. All because of her, we were able to make this deal happen. And hopefully the numbers will impress you, which I'll show you in a minute. So some of the important due diligence here which were included. So again with HMOs, like I say, lots of regulation. And because this isn't your standard property, this is two flats. So current condition of the property is two flats. Luckily it's on the same title. But that was something that we really had to look into because obviously if you then purchase the property and you can't do what you want to do with it, it can just become messy. So we went to the planning portal to look for previous planning conversions for the house and we couldn't see it. There was absolutely no track record of it ever being turned into flats. And it was really interesting because later down the line what we found out is the lady that owned this house, she's owned it since the 1940s. She's had it for a very, very long time, but even she bought it as the two flats. So the likelihood was that these, this property was actually converted into flats way before 1947, which is obviously when the planning permission, the Planning Permission act came into play. So then we had to do a little bit of digging of the feasibility of converting it back to a C3. And, and of course, deconversion is something that is quite easily doable. So that was a tick in the box. We then checked the deed, the title, so that we could see that obviously this was a one title, one deed, which makes things so much more easier. And then of course, things like cross checking the housing policy for HMOs, because here in Reading there's quite a lot of Article 4 areas and even if it's not in an Article 4 area, they will have some sort of controls in Play. So if 25% of the properties in the surrounding area are HMOs, then you will have a really hard time getting permission for collecting planning permission for it. So it's really important that you can identify the likelihood of the 7 bet HMO, in this case, a sewage generous being approved. And then there's also environmental factors, Right? So things like parking, for example, and how to position that. This Property is literally 30 seconds walk to the train station. So we can argue that, you know, we can make the place greener. You don't need cars because you have the train line just a few seconds walk from the road. And then of course, researching things like tenant demand for professionals and existing supply. I've put a few links for you guys down here, by the way. So when I do my due diligence, I'm quite methodical and I go through an entire process and these three tools outside of property filter really help me just to get that background check, just to make sure that it is a good opportunity and that we're going to be able to, it's feasible for us to do what we are planning to do with it. Oh, so then next, the offer. So once we have done all of this and looked at the asking price, the asking price for both flats was 525,000. Originally I offered 450,000, which got accepted, which in itself was a pretty good deal. However, after having spoken to my business partner and I will go into this in a moment, we had to revise the offer to £430,000, which basically I was told to take a hike. The vendor was, you know, the agent was like, the vendor will never go for that. You're lucky to get 450. That's until they did accept it. So let's walk through how we made this happen. But just before we do, I thought, you know, just to show you the numbers, what it actually all looks like. So once the project is complete, we anticipate that each room will rent for about £870 per month and that's pretty normal, especially for a high end all ensuite HMO here in Reading. So that will be £105,000 per annum, total gross income. And we're estimating the refurbishment to be about 200 to 240,000. Now one thing we also tend to do is put things like solar panels onto the HMOs because it just future proofs it and you know, in terms of the EPC rating, there's going to be changes coming. So it just makes your life a lot easier if you can preempt all these things. And we are expecting to leave about 6 to 9,000 in the deal, which is the payback period is about eight months. So looking at the figures, this really is a great deal. It was already a great deal as a seven bedroom, but with the 10 bedroom it just means we can pull our money back out that much quicker and it's going to give us an even bigger return and income, which is amazing. So then kind of going into the three key pillars of success. So obviously I've walked through kind of the story, the viewing, some best practices around there, how due diligence is key. But for me to make this still happen, I would say there was three key ingredients and the first one was the insights from Property filter. I have to say that this property, when I first found it, I actually found it through leafletting. So this was pre property filter days where I would research a whole bunch of properties, go walk around with my dog and my husband and you know, seeing oh this could make a good hmo. Oh that could make a good hmo. And I leaflet dropped with no insight into the fact that this property was already on the market or with even really knowing much about it. And it's not until I actually decided to fight the bullets and sign up to property filter that I could see, oh wow. Like this property has been on the market for ages and I could see all the motivation levels, etc. The strong relationship part was also integral. So building a strong relationship with the agent helped me to uncover really key nuggets of information. One of the most key I think was the fact that when he told me that many Investors viewed this property, but they were put off by the condition of it and the lack of profitability. Of course, they were looking at this potential property just as two flats. They didn't really come with a HMO hat on or any other strategy. But the fact that he unveiled that meant that I just had a little bit more ammo in my back pocket for getting the price right for us. And then finally the negotiation and closing strategies. So I very much like to do the A or B method. I never put in an offer just as one to say, you know, I'm offering you X, it's always X or Y. Which one would you like? Because then that way you sort of give some level of control or they feel like they have some level of control and present them with a choice. And hopefully the choice that you want them to choose is the most optimal one. But I talk you through all of the different areas as to, to how I've done this. So some insights from Property Filter. This was groundbreaking for me and I am so very happy that this tool exists, because after I've signed up, I did a little bit of digging to this property and saw that, first of all, it's been set on the market for eight months. There's been no movement on it. It was just a straight line for eight months, not sold, subject to contract, never been taken off the market, never dropped in price. It was just. Just sort of sat there. And what was really interesting as well is that it was listed twice. So once it was listed as the entire dwelling for the £525,000, or they've also listed it as two separate flats. So one of the flats was already vacant. Terrible condition. You couldn't tenant it, which is probably why a lot of those investors were, you know, put off. And then the other one was already tenanted, but owned by the same person. So this was really key information because then it sort of got my mind thinking into, oh, okay, so if it's one person owning it, potentially converting it back to a single dwelling shouldn't be a problem. So having this information through Property Filter really helped. Then the second part, the agent relationship. So I've mentioned earlier, you know, in the viewing, I got that last slot in the evening to make sure that I can spend as much time with the agent as possible. And so before the viewing, I've researched this chap who was going to show me around. You know, he was very interested in local community initiatives. And so it's something that I could really start building that relationship with him on. And get him talking. So then a couple of questions that I think are very handy that really helped me uncover some key bits of information and build relationships. So I like to have kind of the relationship building questions which is here on the top and the sort of qualification questions which is here in the bottom. So, so I like to start with, you know, how has the market been for you lately? You know, is it slowing down? Are you finding that it's, it's picking up, you know, what's your current opinion? How is it going? Then kind of ask about, do they tend to get many properties like this one? I quite like this question because it uncovers if it's a problem property or not. So, you know, he could say something like, well, it's actually really rare for us. We've been having challenges selling it because it's so rare. It's not your typical type of property. So then you can establish, you know, is this going to be something that is going to fly off the shelf and you need to get quick and you need to put an offering really fast so you don't miss out, or is it actually something that you might be able to get a bit more creative with? Then again, you can start asking them, you know, did you always want to be an estate agent? What was your route into it? And just really build that relationship outside of obviously the property itself. And then of course, what kind of investors and buyers do they prefer to work with? Because obviously the point in this as well is if they have any properties that coming in that are similar, you want to be the first one to know. So if you have a Persona that they tell you about, who they like to work with, if there's a good match, chances are you might be able to create a good long term bond with this estate agent so that they can give you opportunities that are off the market as well. And then slowly you can transition into that sort of area of qualification questions, but for the property. So some of the questions I asked is, is there a particular reason for the sale? So in this case, this lady was a long term landlady, she's just had enough of tenants, of HMOs, of maintenance, so she just wanted to cash in and sort of retire somewhere on a beachside sipping cocktails. So that was her reasoning for wanting to get rid of it. But really the pain point, there was just the pain of being a landlady, of having to manage, maintain the property and all of that. So she wasn't in a rush, which was obviously reflected in what I could see in the property filter vendor motivation box. But at the same time, you know, the property had a lot of issues which if she didn't address eventually would have caused her a lot of headaches. I've also liked to ask you to have there been any previous offers? Why didn't they progress? You know, was it a cheeky offer? You know, was it maybe the wrong terms? You can find out a little bit more about that. Do they need a quick sale? So another really good question to ask is do they need a quick sale or are they flexible on timelines? Because then can that can also tell you, you know, if timelines maybe are flexible, could you maybe do something like a purchase lease option? Could you maybe offer them an assisted sell or something a little bit more creative? So I feel like with these conversations it's worthwhile having multiple hats on and starting to form an opinion of maybe what you could put forward that would solve the problem for the vendor as well as offer you a profitable solution. And then the final question, which is where he's absolutely spilled the beans, was what kind of bias have come through first time buyers, families, investors? And this is where he went loose. He was like, it was investors after investors, you know, they were messing about, they were unsure, they didn't see the profit, profitability in these properties. They didn't really see, you know, how they can profit from it quickly. They were all really put off by the amount of work that needs to be done. And so he's basically just let his guard down and told me all of this information, which was really good for me because then I knew that it's a, it's a problem property that if I can help them sell, we will be best friends moving forward. So just some good hints and tips there for relationships. Then I went back and as I've mentioned, originally put in an offer of 450,000 which was accepted. But then this is where if you're working with a business partner or you're sourcing for a client, it's important that you stay in constant communication. Because I sort of just went in, sort of got really excited, thought brilliant deal done at 450,000. But my business partner sort of went, it has significant issues, it's got lots of damp, severe mold, it's a very unsuitable layout for hmo. There's going to be limited to no rental income in the current condition. So if we are going to be taking on these risks, they need to give us a little bit more discount. So we renegotiated. And so this is kind of where the magic happens. So I tried to go in quite rationally. It was an awkward conversation to begin with and initially it happened on the phone and then after the initial big fat no, I thought, okay, I'm just gonna level with you here. And I sent them an email. And the email more or less had these key points. So I've basically reiterated that the current condition of the property is just not going to be suitable for anyone. Not tenants, not residential buyers, not investors. And also I've sort of re highlighted the key buyer Persona for this because obviously the amount of issues that this property had, a standard mortgage for a residential person would have been very, very hard to secure. So that kind of ruled out residential buyers. And then I tried to kind of go from an investor's perspective and sort of mentioned, look, from an investor's perspective, this is a lot of work to do. And as you've experienced, a lot of investors will shy away from this because they're not going to have enough, you know, they're not going to have the time maybe or the experience to be doing up this property. And by the way, they're going to have no rent on income from it for a significant period of time. I've then also said, let's go for a structural survey and a home buyer report. We can split the cost or we can pay for it. However, again, if you do this, any findings that come back from this survey, the seller is, is legally obligated to disclose this information. Which if they thought about it, I was like, well, you know, if there are subsidence, if there's any big, big issues and you have to disclose this information, it's going to make your pool of potential buyers even smaller. So that's another risk for you. I then went in and offered some comparables because actually there's a lot of properties which had a similar footprint that were basically just one house at around 170 square meters. And there was a fair amount of properties that have sold for about 425,000 to £430,000. And I thought, okay, well this again strengthens that offer because I'm not just plucking numbers, you know, from the sky. There's actual evidence to show that sizes of similar properties are selling for four to five. I've then advised the seller because again, there was a lot of mold, especially in the property that was vacant. There was so much mold, you know, it was terrible. It was really, really bad. And actually I found out that there's a new legislation coming in October 20th of this year in 2025, called Arabs law. Now, this is just for social housing at the minute, but they're trying to make it to kind of residential private landlords as well. And basically what that is is you have a certain SLA to address mold problems. It has to be within seven to 14 days, or if it's something really urgent, it has to be within 24 hours. So those mould problems, those mould issues that were getting bigger and, you know, the maintenance and the cost that she wanted to get rid of, I said, if you don't sell now, this is something she's going to have to spend some money on. So, again, kind of knowing the legislations, what's coming into force and how that might affect the vendor and how that can make their life even more miserable than it already is, can be quite a bit of a good negotiation tool. And we've sort of reiterated that we're prepared to prepare to take on all of these risks. Risks, Obviously it is a lot of risks, but all we ask in return is for a discounted rate. So with that in mind, I have put forward the best and final offer and my A and B kind of scenario. So I said, okay, appreciate that 430 is absolutely not something that she would look at. That could be one of the options. Alternatively, we're happy to pay 450,000, which was the initial offer that was accepted with the following condition. So we said, if the planning is approved for the 7Bet HMO, because at this point we didn't know if we're going to have a HMO approved. We didn't know fully what that would entail and what that would look like. We knew in principle that we could turn the property back to a C3, but, you know, with that, could we get a Sue Generis? Could we, you know, go down that route? We were still in the pre planning phases and having had initial conversations with the planning consultants, it was still, it was still a little bit rocky. So I said, okay, if we have the ability to get the planning approved for the 7 bed, what we'll do is we'll pay you the 425 now and then the 25k extra once everything is approved. And then we can also look at a profit share, a developer profit share. If we can get more bedrooms out, or 8, 9, 10 bedrooms, we will pay you 10k more per bedroom. So if we can get 8 bedrooms, you can get 10k more. If it's 9 bedrooms, you can get 20k more. If it's 10 bedrooms, you can get 30k more. So in that case, you know, we're paying you towards the 470,000, but this is all subject to it being approved. And so literally within five minutes they came back and said, no, a straightforward sale will be fine, we will look at 430,000. I was like, wow, this is amazing. And again, this is just that whole A or B, because I'm giving them a solution. You know, they were, they were in Nomad rush, but I suppose the uncertainty whether they will be able to get it approved, will they get this money? She just didn't want the hassle of it. So for her just having that straightforward sale with certainty and the fact that we weren't going to pull out regardless, just gave her that reassurance and so that's how we managed to secure it at 430,000, which is a steal. It was 95k less than originally advertised. So it just goes to show that if you have, you know, the right information, the right team, you've done your due diligence, you've got good relationships, anything's possible and the asking price really is just an asking price. So then I also promised to kind of go through the creative vision and thinking outside of the box, because this property very much required creative vision and thinking. So obviously this was too, too flats and it was one that many, many investors just decided to not bother with because of the amount of works that needed. And mind you, two flats in Reading actually, in terms of yields wouldn't have given a very, very good yield. This HMO will about an 11 to 12 yield. You know, if you renting it out as a flat, you may be looking at four. So it really isn't profitable. And again, it's about knowing your area, knowing what's working, knowing what's profitable and knowing what it takes. So for this one I've mentioned what was a really key part and area is to bring my builder with me. And the reason that that really helped us is because we went through literally knocking on walls and we could see that there was a lot of stud walls in a lot of places, which suggested that at one point this was a single property. We then spoken to some planning consultants and see, you know, how, how easy it would be to convert it back into a single dwelling and if there is a chance to deconvert it, which obviously is, is very possible. And now we know that that's going to be a fairly easy and straightforward process. But, you know, knowing that and then having that single property will then enable Us to then put in another planning for the su generis for the 10 bedrooms. So it's been, it's been a, it's been a roller coaster. But you know, if I had walked in myself, just had a look at it as two flats, not really bothered to investigate it, I probably would have walked away from it as well. So again, if you have good builders that can really make or break an opportunity for you, so bring them along. Now. I also promised to go through a little bit of hidden creative deals because obviously this is just one of many possibilities. So if you're into HMOs and you're looking at properties, more often than not, most people will just look at large footprint residential homes, which is fine. You know, there is an abundance of them and there's a lot of family homes that you could potentially convert into a hmo. But there are also a lot of creative ways that you can do this. One of them is obviously flats. So whenever I'm now browsing for HMOs, I don't rule out flats. I used to literally just hide flats, hide flats. Whereas now I very much want to see them because it could be that there is another one like this one hiding somewhere. So is there a flat that maybe you could convert back to one building and turn into a hmo? Things like, you know, old Victorian houses, which one point would have been single occupancy, but you know, may have been converted later down the line, could be a really good opportunity. There's also long term landlords like this lady. You know, she's had this property since the 1940s, so she's had it for absolute ages. She's had it, you know, the pre planning permission days, which is why, you know, there was no record of it whatsoever that it's ever been converted into two flats. So because that didn't officially begin, if there are long term landlords, they may be holding onto these gems that you can very, very easily just undo and turn back into a single dwelling and single property. So something to look out for and especially if it's under one title. So this one, funnily enough, was a free freehold under one title and one deed. So again, we didn't have to go through the process of, you know, merging the two or anything like that. So it's quite straightforward. And there are a load more of these out there, just have to find them ex care homes and nursing homes. So again, not a lot of people, you know, when they're in HMOs, they don't often really look at that. But the nice thing with ex care homes and nursing homes is that they would already have communal areas, multiple rooms, fire doors, all of that would already be in place, white hallways. So it saves on conversion costs and it could be really, really great for large HMOs or anything like that, larger living, co living setups. So don't discount them if they come onto the market. And again through property filter often when I used to look for HMOs before this property, I used to just look at large footprint residential houses. I wouldn't even look at commercial or anything else which obviously can also be hidden gems waiting for you to find things like small hotels or guest houses for example. They may already be a C1 use, but you can convert it to a C4. Obviously subject to planning, but you know, don't discount those either. Interesting ones like chapels. I have actually seen one of these because with empty religious buildings, you know, they have the footprint. You will probably need quite a lot of full planning permission and a bit of creativity. But you know, you can find them quite cheaply because they're quite, you know, unorthodox properties. They already tend to have really nice high ceilings. So you're okay there and it could be a great potential. So again, something else that a lot of people walk past and wouldn't necessarily consider then things like banks or offices. So I think in 2020 they've started to list them as class E. So empty banks. But again it could be eligible for PD conversion. So, so it could be another great opportunity to convert into HMOs and especially banks. They tend to be near town centers, transport hubs. So from a location wise killer location, a lot of banks are shutting down at the moment. Excuse me. So is that something that you could potentially look at? Excuse me. Oh, the next one is expats, community centers, day nurseries. So again they tend to have very, very large footprints already and existing fire exits, all of that would already be in place. And again something that will probably require full planning versus maybe a bank building where you might be able to do some stuff on the, the permitted development with X pubs and things like that. You, you would have to have full planning but again something to not, you know, not consider. And then bungalows. So bungalows, again I, I actually work with an investor and have never considered bungalows, but they have amazingly huge gardens so that you can extend. They have footprint, you can have very good head height for them. You can put dormers on them and it's quite easy to turn them into five to six bed hmo. So again, bungalows could be a really brilliant opportunity to acquire something that's a little bit different. But you can turn into a very high cash flowing and yielding hmo. And so some of the key takeaways for you. So I hope that this has been useful but if you're going to take away anything then I'd say these four areas are the most important. So first and foremost with HMOs make sure you look for large footprint properties but don't just be tunnel visioned and look at, you know, residential family homes. In essence look for flats, you know, look for religious buildings, look for potential banks, look for anything that you know, you could potentially monetize. And HMOs as well. There's such a high cash flowing, brilliant strategy that you know, some people shy away from, especially when it's a brr. But again, you know, you can use those sources or deal packages to be able to manage the end to end process for you. So don't discount any of these more creative properties. Do look into flats, do look into nursing homes because they could be little hidden gems waiting for you to uncover and make some serious money off of due diligence. Really, really important. Make sure you have your power team in place, your architects, your planning consultants, your, you know, your solicitors, all of those. And make sure that you utilize your relationship with these people to really, to really help unlock key details. Again, if it wasn't to our architect, we wouldn't have known that we could get 10 beds into this, into this property and that's what really supercharged this deal for us. Comparables, again, make sure you do that. I love to use comparables in negotiations and in my offers because it just shows credibility, it knows what I'm talking about. It shows that I know my area and it shows that I've really put some thought into the offer and there is actual reasoning as to why I'm looking at a certain figure. I've not just sort of plucked it out of the air. So make sure you do that. And actually Property Filter has a very nice comparables tab. But again you can use things like property data, right move and all the other tools available to you. Knowledge is power. You know, if you are aware of any legislations, both existing upcoming or past ones, that could really affect your, you know, that could really affect your deal. Because in this case one of the key negotiation tactics I've leveraged is the fact that the house was so moldy and Awab's law is coming up and she's going to have to, you know, address all of this. It's in her best interest to sell now before this legislation comes into play and before it could potentially cost her more, both in terms of financials and in terms of headaches. So it can create extra opportunities and it really does help you drive deals forward. And then the last one is always offer a minimum of two options, A or B. Because then, you know, it's, it's a lot less, it's a lot less likely that they'll just outright say no. They'll probably pick an option. You know, some people even give three options. It really depends on your style. But that's really what helped us get this deal at a really, really good price, a really good discount and we could basically make it happen. So I don't know how I'm doing for time. I think we have 20 minutes and if there are questions and it'd be good to have some time for it. But that's the high level overview of our deal that we found through Property Filter. Thank you, Guillaume. There's a little QR code if you wanted to, you know, get in touch or you wanted to talk more about running HMOs or if you indeed are considering investing in Reading or Berkshire, then let me know.

Nicolette, that was really awesome. You truly are the HMO hunter. I love it. Thank you. You're such a great presenter. That was so, so cool to watch and listen to. So thank you very much.

Thank you.

Leave your slide on so people can find the QR code. You know, is it a link to some link tree or something you can put in the chat as well?

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

So I can actually, if people want to reach out to you, it's, it's all good.

I can do get link.

Here we go. Oh, you're sharing the presentation. That's, that's so cool, actually. Awesome. Yeah, perfect.

And put it in the chat.

Beautiful. So everything you shared, you know, that's, that really illustrates beautifully how, you know, like deals are made, not found, you know, so it's all about, you know, finding someone that's going to be motivated and creating the opportunity. So, you know, you're just walking and talking example on how great, you know, this, this works, you know, so. And then I bang the drum about ignoring the asking price. You know, like people come to me, I can't find deals out there. You know, nothing stacks there. Yeah, of course, nothing stacks. Right. It's the whole point. Nothing's going to ever stack at asking price. So well done. And, and you can always renegotiate, you know, what's they gonna say, you know.

Which was the original, which was the original feedback I received was take a hike in a funny way.

And they were like of course they will, you know. But then there is. All the deals I've done were, you know, the first ever one I done and I had to renegotiate was very uncomfortable. The lady was a very like old time landlord. She was on the board of the old rla, you know, like they're all like landlord association, you know, like she was like proper like. And it's like with this French guy at the end she, she agreed with the price reduction, you know. So sometimes, you know, when people think about oh, but the property's got a problem and yes, exactly. You want the property to be smelly, you want the property to have these mold issues and all that because you can go and renegotiate, you know, I'm scared the surveyor is going to pick up some stuff. You're going to buy this property. So you want the surveyor to pick up as many stuff as you want. I've got some friends who are residential buyers who are asking me for advice for their property and stuff and they're like, oh, the surveyor picked up all these things we want to pull out from the sale. It's like great, just knock 30 grand out of the price. What are they going to say? So it's the whole point of it. A deal is made when a buyer and a seller meet each other and it's worth what someone is ready to pay for. And then really, really great how you've, you know, like sort of position the offer, you know, like they're using the perfect offer system. The two options might, you know, my price, your term, your term, my price. And then usually they, they want what they understand. They, they a lot of the times they go for the cheaper one. So make sure the, the cheaper option is one you can actually go for because a lot of the time you'll be surprised how little people want to, are happy to accept, you know, because it stays in their frame of mind of like we're going to exchange, we're going to complete, you know, and it's straightforward. So yeah, that's really, really awesome. I've got a question and I'm going to invite. So you guys make sure you ask your question in the chat and we'll ask Nicolette on liftleting, so you mentioned about liftletting the property and then it then cross checked when you sort of the wire touched with a prop filter. Do you send letters now or do you tend to work with agents? Because you mentioned also about the relationship with agents and by the way, awesome all masterclass of autobiography. Relationship with agents is really, really well. So do you sort of work with agents and letters? What's your thing?

Yeah, so I have a number of strategies now. I do use you guys letter templates. I think they're brilliant and also I like that you can track, you know, who responded, which campaign landed the best and then I can sort of do some, some tests like A to B testing, you know, which wording works better, which campaign worked better. I actually find that long time sold subject to are really, really good. And the, the other one I think is long time on the market ones that have been on the market for 90 plus days. I got quite a lot of responses back from them. Actually the flip that I am doing at the moment was a long time sold subject to contract. It was one that fell through twice and the second time it was STC for 256 days. So I reached out to the vendor and he was like, what can we do? You know, it's going through, it's probably going to fall through. And I just sort of said to him look, if it does fall through, give me a call. I'll be your guaranteed backup buyer. But I absolutely love the campaigns on Property filter. I think they're, they're brilliant. It's the ease of use is a lifesaver. I, I, I'm ashamed to say but I used to literally handwrite letters.

Oh and leak stamps and stuff.

And literally by letter 80 I had this misshapen claw because it was so painful. But I got maybe two or three responses back from that and just automating it and you know, I work in it, I should know better autom. So it's, it's really great. So I do a lot of direct to vendor outreach through there. I also then have a lot of estate agent relationships now built in Reading where they just come to me and say hey Nicky, we've got this opportunity, you know, would you be interested? But that took, yeah, that took at least a year to build up. And when I was naive, you know, bright eyed, bushy tailed, I called up agents and I'm like, oh hey, so have you got anything off market? And they were like, no, it takes time to build up. But the more you buy from them and the more that they can see you're a reliable buyer, you know, whether that's for yourself. Or whether, you know, it's for an investor, that's what's really going to help strengthen the relationship, obviously. So if you are looking to build relationships with agents to give you deals, that's going to come from, you know, working with them, and it's going to come from you just buying deals off them. But if it's a relationship to give you more information and detail on the property, then some of those questions that helped me uncover those nuggets were really helpful. I do still do some leaflet dropping, but for me it's. It's not the most fruitful strategy, to be honest. So most of it is property photo I use for my campaigns.

Awesome. Thank you. You know, for the agent relationship, do you tend to get a foot in the door through a particular property you're looking at, which is like you've identified as being a problem property and you use it as bringing context to a conversation? To have a conversation, or you just go, you just walk. You would just walk the high street and open every agency, you know, and bring donuts and stuff. So what's the audio? How do you start a building relationship? I know the answer. I'm guessing the answer, but no.

So, yeah, I use properties that I find on Property Filter. So I would typically call them, give them a call, arrange a viewing, if appropriate. Typically, I will have an initial conversation and just be really upfront. I think a lot of them actually really appreciate that, that when I phone up, I just say, look, there's this property. I'm a local investor, I'm looking to either, you know, flip it or, you know, looking for a hmo. It looks like a promising opportunity. I've done quite a lot of due diligence, I'm thinking, to offer around the region of 400 to 450. Do you think that's agreeable to the client? I don't want to offend anybody, but that's numbers I'm working with at the moment. And then they'll talk and then they'll either say, oh, actually, you know, it's not something they'll ever go for, or they'll say, you know, actually, it's been on the market for a long time, they're really keen to sell. Why don't you come along? And then I go along, and then in the viewings is where I build further relationships. And then I tell them, you know, what I do, what I'm looking for. Ask them how many investors they work with, if any. A lot of them do have lists of investors that they already work with. But then typically, I think a face to face is the best way to build a relationship. So I try and go out to viewings, but again, I try to go out to viewings for properties that I know are likely something. I mean, I'm either going to be in the position to buy or an investor of mine is going to be in the position to buy because then it's not wasting their time. I think agents really hate it when you just go for a viewing, and then they also hate it when they can't get hold of you to get feedback or anything like that. So as long as you keep it productive for both parties, I think it's. It's a really good starter for a, for a solid partnership.

And the old premises of this is about doing 10 times fewer viewings but having 10 times more interesting conversations. And you've pushed it to another level where you kind of. Now you've got the confidence and they know you and things. So you can have those qualifying questions. Do you think everyone, you know, if I'm started out, I've never done a viewing before. Can I have this easily these conversations or misquotifying conversations and questions before I, you know, on the phone before I go and view a property? Or, or do you think if I'm brand new, what matters is, like, going out and cutting one's teeth on, like, seeing lots of properties or more properties. What do you think for someone who is maybe not built a relationship yet?

So I was in this position literally 12 months ago, and I remember my very, very first viewing. It was terrifying. I had the worst imposter syndrome. And I was like, they're gonna see right through me, you know, what is this, you know, bimbo doing here? And what does she know? And I had my little notepad because I went through an academy training where they gave us a viewing guide document which could have showed, you know, things to check for. Is that Japanese knotweed was the condition of the kitchen, was the skirting boards looking like fuse boards, all of that. So just sort of went along my little board, you know, making notes. It just felt so, so, so awkward. But then I was like, okay, let's push through. And I actually did a week of. I think I viewed like 30 properties in a week. And I was just like calling and I was like, yeah, I'm a local investor. And eventually instead of saying, you know, I work for other people, I was like, no, I'm looking for properties for myself. I'm looking to invest. I'm looking to build my Portfolio. If I buy a flip off you, it's a great opportunity. Why am I the one, you know, feeling all embarrassed? But it's, you know, it's one of those things, I think it's human nature where you're kind of, you know, if you, if you know that you're new to something. But nobody starts a professional, right? Every, every master was once a disaster. So I try and kind of think about it in that way, but I just did volume at the beginning because I thought the more I do this, the more comfortable I will feel, the more relaxed I'll feel, the more kind of conversations I can have. And again, ChatGPT is your best friend. You know, Google some questions. You know, what can I ask an estate agent that's going to help me build a relationship? What can I ask an estate agent that's going to help me uncover good information about a property and just jot a few down, ask them. And I started to do that more and more and now it's a lot more natural. But at the beginning stage, yeah, I think it is going to be very uncomfortable and it's something that you just have to kind of power through. And at the beginning, it is very much, in my opinion, a volume exercise where you just go out and do it just to get yourself used to the process, just to get yourself used to, you know, what kinds of questions to ask and to help build some initial relationships. And then eventually over time, you know, when you've nailed that down, you can then go and have a bit more of a strategic mindset about it, protect your time a bit more because, you know, eventually you will get very, very busy. And I'm kind of at that stage. I'd love to have another me at the moment. And so I'm really selective of what I do go and view. And basically the view for me is now something that is like a last tick in the box to make sure, you know, the property is, is, is, is all in, in the condition that it, that I envision it to be.

Yeah, you know, it's great. I really wanted to ask you this because you make it look so easy, you know, and then, and then people, people might think, oh, it's, oh, I just need to have conversation. I'm gonna be fine. But yeah, you did the, you did the work. You've done dozens and dozens of viewings, got really comfortable. Like, you know, like now being in viewings and in properties is like the new normal. It's very comfortable for those people who find it maybe a bit as you say like this imposter syndrome, like the solution to it is volume. You know the solution to learning how to ride a bike is to be on the bike more. Right. So it really. So yeah, thanks so much for, for that. So I got some questions so from Michael who says in doing due diligence so much information, do you. Would you share with the deal speaker with the agents and the build team? I just found out someone went behind my back and offered a significantly more for the property and I lost it all because I developed too much. What features in. And then what features in property filter do you use to identify HMOs for? Yeah, to identify HMOs.

Okay. So great question. I think. So when you. I'm not sure what you mean. Someone bend behind your back, is it.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

Power team or is it someone that.

You are sourcing Feels like a builder. It's mentioned about the builder and the, and the agent.

So yeah, so the builder and the agent. That's a tough one to be honest. If it's someone that you are working with, you know that you're trying to forge a relationship on your power team and they go and do that, you know, probably not someone you want to work with. So good riddance. I say if it's a client, you know, because you're a deal sourcer, I would make sure that you sign an NDA, a non disclosure agreement just to protect both, both parties, both yourself and them so they can't circumvent you in terms of sharing information. I mean, you know, this is why it's important that you work with people you know, like and trust. So I think it's, it's super important you do your due diligence even on the people that you're working with. One thing that I did do at the beginning actually from an estate agency perspective is called them to test their service levels. So I would give them a call and I did this with people who are maybe not in my area. So one of my mentors has mention they've done this and it gave me some level of comfort. So I called people up in Birmingham, just random estate agents just to practice having a conversation and to practice and test out their service levels. You know, are they really rude? Are they quite helpful? What are they like? So I called them up, I said I'm looking to buy a property in the area that I'm looking to do up. What do you recommend that the price would be once it's done up? Could you, could you give Me an indication. Some people are super helpful, some people are quite standoffish. But if you test some service levels, look at some reviews, you'll be able to tell the good agents from the not so good agents and then you can start to target those agents and their listings with the ones that you feel okay, they are going to be a really good one to work with. They've got really good service levels, you know, they're trustworthy, they're reliable and so on. It's not going to be every agent. Also I prefer more boutique estate agents. So there is ones which are massive in areas and I feel like they get a bit more complacent. Whereas the ones which are sort of specialists in the area maybe are a little bit smaller. They're kind of your sweet spot estate agents that you want to target and you want to work with. In terms of how I find my hmo. So like I mentioned at the beginning it was very much just like big footprint houses. But you have filters on Property filter so you can put in flips, HMO PD conversions, hmo. So there is different types of filters that you can utilize and then property filter will pull in all of the criteria that is in that pre populated template. So you can use those templates. But like I say, don't just limit yourself to the HMO kind of templates because flats equally are just as good. There is all available properties that you can sift through and then you can filter them down. So it just really depends how you like to work. But if you, you know, if you've just started out on property filter I would probably recommend that you use the pre existing filters because they're really good at pulling in properties that match that specific criteria or strategy that you are looking for.

Thank you very much. Bob is asking about if you know because you mentioned about JV partners. So how would you go about doing deals like that if you like didn't have capital to do the refurbish?

So joint venturing, I'd say there's two types of joint venturing you can do. You can joint venture with a builder if you already have them, you can profit share with them. You can do assisted sale which again if you have very little capital is brilliant. So if you do the assisted sale you don't really need much capital because you're not buying the house, you're not going to have finance costs, you're not going to have stamp duty or any of that. And if you can joint venture with your builder, then you don't even really have the building costs, but again you have to have a very good relationship. So that's one way. The other way you can joint venture is if you go to an event, you build relationships with existing investors who might have the capital but not the time. And again, it's going to take time. It's not going to be I go to one event and you know, I meet an investor and bam, I. It takes time and, and you know, it takes for you to go to an event several times to become a known face and then if there is an investor there, you can say, well look Mr. Investor, I'd be very happy to joint venture. I will put in all of the work, all of the time, all of my knowledge and they will put in the money. So I'm join venturing with my course at the moment. So they are basically paying for everything, the purchase, the stamp, the refurb and then we'll split the profits 50, 50. But obviously if you're not in a course and you know, or maybe you've already done a course and you're looking for investors, then I'd really recommend going to events, you know, pin events and just continuously go build those relationships and then eventually you find somebody who you can trust and you can work together and then that's where you know, if you have haven't got the money, then they can put in the money and then you will put in your time, your expertise and all of that.

Yeah, I totally agree. So the thing about being circumvented, you know, you never, no one ever bypasses you if you build a relationship with them, you know, so because there's too much opportunity cost if they're going to miss out on all the other deals you will bring to them, you know, so the only reason why someone would do that is because there's no relationship or you, you've not, you know, you've not positioned yourself in a way where it's worth building a relationship with you. And, and people want to go to one event and, and find the find the people are going to put the money straight away. But exactly as Nicolette said, you know, it's about becoming a familiar face and going multiple times in the same place, coming to these calls, contributing inside the property of the community, coming to the live events we run and other people run. Right. So every time you've got an opportunity to go for the seminar, it's a few hundred quid, sometimes it's really well worth it. So I totally agree with all that. And it also goes to show the Importance of having a pipeline of deals. So if this only this one thing you obsess about for the next three months and then you get really upset when someone nicks it from you. But who cares if you've got 10 on the go and say karma will catch that person back, you know, you've got plenty to work on still, you know, so, you know, like these are all things in your head, you know, it's like, you know, you need to think bigger. I would say, you know, like this, you know, your focus should be on how do I get 10 times more or not, not in the scarcity of what if I lose this one, you know. So just a bit of a side comment from me if I sort of may. When you source, do you start with the investor or with the prop or the deal? The question that's been asked by Bob.

Sorry, so when I source, do I.

Source with deal sourcing? So is it the investor or the deal comes first?

Investor comes first. And again, this is, this is kind of the pre sale technical consultant talking. Or if you're a doctor, right, you wouldn't go to the doctor and say, give me a solution just by looking at me, I'm sick, but give me something. It's impossible, right? And I think if you are doing deal sourcing professionally. So there's, I think there's a bit of two answers to this. If you're doing deal sourcing professionally, I absolutely think the investor should come first because what might be a great deal for Joe Bloggs might be a terrible deal for Michael Smith, right? It's one of those things and even flip. So I actually had an investor come to me and wanted a flip and I actually rejected working with him because he wasn't specific enough. He's like, oh, find me a good flip. And I was like, okay, what does a good flip look like? One that makes me a lot of money. I was like, okay, what's a lot of money? Is it 20k, 100k? Oh yeah. Like I want 40 ROCE. I was like, all right, okay, cool. What does that look like though? Do you want a deal that's going to give you maybe smaller profits that you can do in eight weeks and it might give you 20k? Or do you want a deal that's a proper back to brick redevelopment project, but might give you 100, 200, 300K because they're two very, very different opportunities. Two very, very different deals. So which one is it? Because for you the 20k might be a great deal? For me, I probably wouldn't spend, you know, time and effort on a 20k deal. So what is it? And that's why I think it's so important to really go through that qualification and understand what is the investor's intent, you know, what is it that they're trying to achieve. Because even in property investing you can have capital appreciation, you can have cash flow, rental income, you can have so many different outcomes. What's, you know, what's most important for them. So in that instance, I think it's really important that you understand what makes them tick and then find them a good deal. In that same sentence, if you are doing a little bit what I'm doing, which is a little bit of a hybrid, if you come across a really great deal that you just can't finance because you don't have the investor. But you know, typically if you already have the network, I guarantee you you will have someone that you can do that deal with. But if not, because let's say all of your, all of your connections, money is tied up somewhere else, then you can source it on because if it's a really fabulous deal, there is going to be an investor that's going to want it. And again, like Property Filter, have a great partnership with site finder. So you have a really good deal, you can monetize off it. I would always say if you have a deal, have a look at how to monetize it. Is it something you can do yourself? If not, can joint venture? If not, can you then source that onto somebody? But if, like I say, if you're professionally doing it, investor first, always.

Yeah, thanks so much. The sources get a really bad name because a lot of them don't really know what they are doing. But equally the investors are in the main tire kickers in the same way. So you've put it all of this really beautifully or to go and qualify and keep everyone on their toes and don't waste your time on people you think are investors and they're not, you need to drive those conversations. So that was super helpful and really put beautifully. I couldn't have done better. So thank you so much. There's two more questions and then I'll ask you for like a closing sentiment. So Nicola is asking. So across all the questions there's lots of amazing feedback and thank yous and Nicola is saying, you know, like really insightful and amazing what you've been able to achieve in just 12 months. How do you manage all the estate agent calls, the viewings during the weekdays, the weekends, while still working Full time, running family, being a mama dog and keep your interests alive, you know. And do you find that you have to reduce perfection expectations in other parts of your life, set boundaries or do you think you have enough or do you create enough hours for the property consistently?

Yeah, great question. And to be honest, there is times, it is a lot and there has to be some sacrifices. My biggest sacrifice is my social life right now is non existent. I see some friends every now and again, but they also are very appreciative of the fact that I'm trying to, you know, build a business, build, you know, wealth for my family and kids to come. But I'm actually in quite a good routine now. So figure skating quite luckily is something you can only do early in the morning because that's when you have access to ice. So I typically go and start my day at 6am Six or seven typically is when I go figure skate. So that's my hobby. I start my day always doing something for myself because I think it's important to, you know, start the day right. And again with skating, it's my passion because it switches me off. You can't think about anything else. You need to think about what you're doing on the ice or you can get very, very hurt. So then I do that. I then come home, I then do my nine to five, you know, do my job. But you have to be very strict with yourself. You have to really calendarize every single thing. Like even today, this presentation, I've moved my lunchtime. I'm doing this at my lunchtime. In my lunchtimes I either will look at properties or I will go and do my personal training because again, that's something else I like to get moving, I like to, to stay active. So I do have personal training sessions, either usually after work or at lunchtimes and then in the evening. So from 6 till 10pm is when I will work on my property Monday to Friday. I then give myself Friday evenings off because Friday evenings is date night with my husband. Make sure we don't, you know, neglect each other. So that's when we have nice Domino's Pizza or whatever and just binge watch trash tv. So that's our protected Friday night. And then Saturday, Sunday either Saturday I will again work just on my property business. So that's lovely because I don't have any other distractions. And then Sundays is like the day where I do nothing. I relax, I rewind, recharge, set the batteries, plan for my week, the next week and do it that way. I think as long as you're organized, you stick to things, you set boundaries, I think it's very, very doable. But you have to be really strict with your time and you have to be picky with what you spend your time on because you can get into a really kind of dangerous downward spiral doing things that you know aren't going to return anything. Like I used to do admin for hours and then I'm like, oh my God, why don't I just have a virtual agent or something to help me? Because it doesn't really yield anything. So you need to get a bit more strategic in where you're spending your time. But it's absolutely possible.

Yeah, I find, I find the people who got, who got the fewer amounts of time actually a lot more strategic and focus on the right things. Exactly. Like I'm describing, exactly the way you describe it, but being intentional, time blocking things. And there's a time for this, time for that. And then you have this urgency of getting things, stuff, you know, getting things done. Because otherwise, you know, if you go, people fantasize on like, oh, if only I had the, if only I didn't have the job, I could do this property thing, you know, and it's not true because all they had to do would be to wake up an hour earlier and do something, you know, another evening, you know, because once they get there in the holidays, then the time stretch and they do, they do less in eight hours than you and I do in an hour in the morning before everyone is awake, you know. So there's a fantasy here and I think you've proved it exactly wrong with the routine you have. So, yeah, really well done. Thanks for sharing. And one more question is, how long did it take you to get the planning for this HMO?

So we're still going through for the 10 BET planning in terms of that. We have all the information. So my architect. So the architect which I'm working with, she used to work in a council is really helpful. So she used to work for Oxford Council and she's highly aware of exactly everything that you need to put into that planning. So she knows how to word it, how to structure it. So she's just finished the final version and it's going through planning now.

But did you, did you go through another planning before? Did you get like six or seven before or. This is the first one going in.

This is the first one going. Because you don't need planning to convert it back. Yeah, so that's. You need, you need kind of Two sets. So you need to convert it back to obviously C3. But there was no, you know, no planning for it. It's a deconversion, it's basically. But the main one's going to be the sue generis. But we've cross checked everything, you know, in terms of making sure the area is not overpopulated with HMOs, which isn't making sure that we've read through all of, she's read through all of the reading, planning policy for HMOs and all of that. So she's really parking all of that. So. Yeah. Yeah.

Awesome. I really appreciate you sharing today. Do you have a closing sentiment for everyone?

My favorite quote, which is great, things never came from comfort zones. The last 12 months I have been incredibly uncomfortable, probably the most uncomfortable I've ever been. It's been a journey, it's been amazing. I still have so much to learn, so much to do, but I'm really enjoying the world of property. I'm really enjoying, you know, the wonderful community we have here and in the property world. And I feel like, you know, if you really want to make this happen, you absolutely can. And I hope today has been helpful, you know, given some tips on how you can build relationships with agents, you know, the due diligence and the different ways you can do that, how you can negotiate, how you can, you know, spot creative opportunities that aren't your standard opportunities. So really hope that you guys have taken away a little something and if there's an event, a property filter event, I hope to see some of you there.

That's awesome. Thanks so much. That was really cool to hear. It was great for me as well to hear the whole story because obviously we spoke and things. So that was really, really cool. And I really love how you shared everything in quite a well organized way about the finding the due diligence, the conversations. And I'm sure it will inspire more people to go out and send letters, you know, and pick up the phone and have these conversations with the vendors, the agents. And I'm just doing this little and often, you know, and then as you describe, you know, all you need is a couple of hours a day, you know, and you get momentum going. So I know the agents are calling you when they have stuff, you know, so, you know, it's very, you know, very, very predictable. So thank you so much. I really, really appreciate you taking the time off your really busy schedule to come and, and speak with us today. And thank you everyone for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed today still find a corner like I did and look forward to seeing you next week. In the meantime, you know, log on to your Props future account, have an endless supply of deals, join the top 1% and become a high achiever. Deal find. Deal finder. So I hope you enjoyed today the final corner and look forward again once more to seeing you next week. Thank you everyone. Speak soon. Bye bye bye. Thank you. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. That was Ace. You're such a great presenter. Bye bye bye.

Thank you so much.