Behind the Podcast: How do Journalists get the Story?

Foreign. Good morning, everybody. I am in Honolulu, Hawaii, today. So that's why my. My studio is not a studio. I'm sitting at a desk in a guest house in Hawaii, and I know somebody's gonna point this out, but that. Oh, I can't even. God, that tree over there is fake. Okay, so someone's gonna point that out. So, anyway, it's Wednesday, and we have a new episode of Remarkable People. This week's guest is Jodi Kanter. Jody is a reporter for the New York Times. She and her partner, Megan Toohey broke the Harvey Weinstein story. And so we talk a lot about the process of breaking the Harvey Weinstein story. That story really rekindled activity in the MeToo movement. Also, this interview took place two days after Bill Cosby was released. So there's a lot in the episode about her reaction to what happened with Bill Cosby and how he was released. And so let's get the icebreaker question up there, Jeff. So the icebreaker question is, you know, what did you think when you first heard the Harvey Weinstein story? This was in 2017, which seems like a long time ago already. Yeah. And so she and Megan and the rest of the New York Times team, along with Ronan Farrell, won a Pulitzer Prize for this investigative reporting. So that was quite an accomplishment. And his most fascinating interview. I asked her, like, what would her recommendations be and what would her advice be if you're ever on the other side of bad pr? Like that. And for both questions, she sort of said, I don't take. I cannot take the opposing side. So she is an investigative reporter. She's not going to give advice on how to deal with that as bad pr. Go find a PR firm. And she also talked about how she believes she has a very high journalistic standard to presenting both sides of the story. Having said that, I got to tell you, if you ever get a voicemail that says it's Jody Kanter from the New York Times, please call me when you have a chance. I would be very worried if I were you. So this episode is all about investigative reporting, the MeToo movement, Harvey Weinstein, and Bill Cosby. So, you know, important issues today. I think you'll enjoy this interview because of just the insights you get on how a New York Times investigative reporter works. And let's see some of those answers to the question about your reaction to the Harvey Weinstein story. Also, start sending me questions. And don't forget, you can join my little text group by texting 831-609-0628 and unfortunately, that is US and Canada only. But it becomes a group where I will text you the latest updates, like a release of an episode. If you ever text me back, you are texting only me. So it goes out one to many. You text me, it's one to one. I text you, it's also one to one. One second here. Yeah, it's on. Wait, I have to do a fatherly thing. My jeans are hanging on the door and in the pocket. Dad. I'm dad and ATM here. So. So, yeah. So. Any questions? Fire away. Any comments? Let's see them. Oh, follow up question. So on. I think it was June 30, Bill Cosby was released because. I don't know, first prosecutor cut a deal with him. The. The second prosecutor did an honor and what a mess. Anyway, what was your reaction to the Bill Cosby story? So two. Two huge stories. Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby. Let's get those comments rolling. Or at least say, hi. Tell me where you're from. And don't forget that these live telecasts are sponsored by restream. Restream. What Restream enables you to do is I am on one stream, obviously, but it's simultaneously going to Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and LinkedIn. So it's four to one. Actually. Restream supports 30 platforms and Restream just recently announced that soon you'll be able to use. You'll be able to stream through the accounts of your guests, not. Not just yourself. So think about that. If you're interviewing somebody really famous and they have a lot of social media, you can set it up so that when you interview that person, live for something like this, it will go out not through your. Not just through your channels, but his or her channels also. So let me check with my family. Everybody good? Off they go. They're going hiking at Manoa Falls right now. So, guy after Hawaii, waiting for you in Greece. You know, Andres, I must admit, I have never been to Greece. I don't think I've even been close to Greece. Maybe the closest I've been to Greece is Italy. So although I'm hardly getting on a plane these days, so just coming to Hawaii was an interesting experience. So, any more comments? What do you think of the Harvey Weinstein story? What do you think of Bill Cosby? Douglas Lamb? Pathetic. Should have occurred 10 years ago or longer. I don't know what you're referring to is the problem. The Harvey Weinstein story should have occurred or Bill Cosby should have. Really? No, it can't be that Bill Cosby should have been released 10 years ago because he hasn't been in jail for years. Cosby being released doesn't mean that he's innocent. How will he be received publicly? Jonathan, you're absolutely right. He kind of got out of technicality. Hard to imagine he's just going to be accepted back and, you know, brands and sponsors are going to line up to sponsor him. I find that very hard to believe. But you know, you can never underestimate the gullibility of the American public, as we are now finding out. So they keep sending those comments. You know, one of the advantages of Restream is that you're on these four different services and you can send comments and we'll get them all here in one place. So in the old days you could multiple stream, but then you'd have multiple windows each one for the comments from each service. But restream puts all those comments into one window, which is a humongous advantage. So just mentioning that Restream sponsors this live telecast. Peg Fitzpatrick. I wonder why no one else was prosecuted in Weinstein's case. The company was part of the COVID up. I'm not done what she said yet, but it's great. She said, by the way, is the name of the book that my guest Jodi Cantor wrote with Megan Twohey. And so she, she actually addresses that, you know, because there are many people who just say help the process of Harvey do what he was doing. And it was a tricky issue for her, you know, whether she should take these 25 year old interns who were part of the issue and throw the New York Times, you know, platform at them. And it kind of decided not to do that. That it's complicated. You'd have to listen to the episode to get that whole story. But yeah, they both should have been legally charged earlier. Yeah, it's kind of amazing that that shit still goes on. I don't know. Yeah. Yep. James Fobbin. I also use Restream and it works great. Yeah. So if you're a podcaster or influencer or just basically active in social media and you want to do live telecast and you want to go to multiple places. Wow. I mean, retrieve is definitely the way to go. And today, by the way, I'm using, I'm trying a new product. I'll show you the logo here. So it's a product and I don't have to disclose this because I didn't get it for free, I paid for it. So. So it's a product called Plexicam and so if you thought about it for a second, it's the conjunction of two words, plexiglass and camera. So that should lead you to believe what it is. So it has pieces like this and then there's, there's a bracket like this. So what you're seeing now and then this part hangs over the top edge of the monitor. So on the, on the piece that you use at the top, there's another thing that hangs over. I would take it off and show it to you, but then I would disrupt the whole system. So anyway, so you have this thing and then you rest your camera on this and you, there's a quarter inch bolt that goes up to hold it steady to this. And so now I have a way that I can lower the camera to eye level. So right now the camera is, I'm looking directly into the lens. And so this is a way of lowering a camera. And you can use both the kind of webcam cameras. In this case I'm using a Sony, I think it's ZV1. So if you, if you go on that text channel, that 831 number, I will, yeah, if you join that service, I could text you a picture of my setup because it's a real, it's a real unusual setup today. But anyway, the beauty of this, this Plexi, Plexicam thing is that I can lower the camera to be eye level. This is particularly useful. So let's say you're in a zoom call and you want the camera lowered to eye level so you can look directly at the camera but you still want to see the other participants in the window behind. So usually what happens is you're looking up at the camera or you're looking down at the people and this way and then so you're always kind of off because if you're looking down at the people or up at the camera, you know there's a trade off there. Somebody along the line is not going to work out because either you're looking at the camera, not at the people. So you're losing eye contact with them or mentally you think you are, or if you're looking at the camera and it's above, then you lose eye contact with the people or so you pick one or the other. Well, this way the camera is lowered to eye level. So theoretically this will lead to better engagement. So how much was it? Well, Jason, I bought the Plexicab Max, which was I think $150. And the reason why I bought the max is because when I get home and actually set this up completely. I am going to use the Sony A6100 and the A6100 is much bigger and heavier than a webcam or in this case a Sony ZV1. So I bought the most industrial strength version because I'm going to use a big heavy camera on it. And actually I just been noticing. So you notice me looking up like that because I have been so self trained to look at a camera up there that I have to break that habit and now look down because I've been training myself to not look down. So, so it's not Plexicam's fault. This is my habit of training myself to look up. So anyway, to answer that question, 150 bucks for the super duper model that can hold a DSLR. Most people using a webcam could buy a $55 model. So yeah, so it's, it's either 55 or 155. So that's Plexicam. So I bought my. I mount my camera on an Elgato mount, but then my monitors are both to the sides. Yeah, but my question there, if you mount the camera in the middle and the monitors are to the sides, how do you, you know, how do you maintain looking at the camera if you're looking at a monitor on each side to see what people on the conference call are doing? So, so that, that would be my question with your setup. Now ultimately, I don't know why somebody hasn't done this. I mean, how hard could it be to put the built in camera in the middle of the monitor? Like build it into the middle of the monitor and then you just move the window to, you know, behind that built in camera. I mean it cannot be impossible. So I don't know, we're doing a deep dive into, into maintaining eye contact in a web conference. So. Well, don't forget, like I'm really here to tell you about Jodi Kanter, New York Times investigative reporter, Pulitzer Prize winner, broke the Harvey Weinstein story, which really was kind of the catalyst for the MeToo movement or at least the, the reactivation of the MeToo movement. So and then the next ice breaking question, which is very interesting. So have you seen any good and big changes since? Me too broke. So have you seen improvements in how society treats women and how, you know, how women have these equal rights and stuff? Because I don't know, that's just appalling to me. What happened? So let's, what changes have you seen? So anyway, what other questions do you have? All my family just went hiking. So I have a lot of time right now. So send in your questions. Tell you the truth, I'm not a big hyper hiker. I'd rather surf. So. I have to tell you that I've been around the world many times and. All right, okay, back to subject. Harvey just got moved to Los Angeles. Do you think they will win their appeal based on his health issues? Well, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know the answer to that question, but I. I don't know. I don't. I don't know the answer to that question. I, I don't know how, I don't know how the legal system adjusts, adjusts for health issues, so. But it's going to be a long time before he gets out and clear, I think. From the perspective of reporter, how do I practice building curiosity? From the perspective of a reporter, how do I practice building curiosity? Huh? All right, that's an interesting question. I, I wonder if curiosity is inherently part of one's characteristics or one character. I don't know. I view my role as a curator on social media. And so I am constantly using an app called Smart News, an app called Google News and Google itself because I constantly have to find new stories to post. And that's because I view myself as a curator and I also view my role as finding good stuff as opposed to creating good stuff. Because creating good stuff is so much harder than finding good stuff stuff. So I, I may, if I had to give you an answer, I'd say that it's all about reading. I'm a voracious reader, so I just, I don't know. I'm just curious from the get go. It's in my DNA, I guess. So what else, what else, what else? Say, have you seen the 100 foot wave on HBO? As a surfer, what do you think of this type of surfing? Jeffrey, I have not seen that on hbo. I can imagine. I've seen videos of big waves. I just listen, for me, a big wave is five feet. Okay, so we're talking about 95 foot difference. So I know Jeff Clark. Jeff Clark is the guy who discovered Mavericks. I know Garrett McNamara because Garrett and I were both Mercedes Benz brand ambassadors. I mean, that is, that is so far from the kind of surfing that I do. I mean, it's not even, I'd say it's a different sport. I just. Having said that, my daughter has paddled out at Mavericks. She hasn't caught a wave yet, but she has paddled out. My daughter wants to be a big wave surfer. So I have one daughter who's a big wave surfer and I have one son who is a wing suitor. We have a lot of high risk stuff in our family, so. Yeah. Hey, what else? Any more questions or comments? Because I'll go surfing if we're done here. Let's see. Oh, by the way, what's your opinion of Schmoozer Douglas? I don't know. What is Schmoozer? I guess I could search right now, but then it would screw up all my windows here. So send another comment explaining what Schmoozer is and I give you an opinion, but I don't know what it is offhand. By the way, I hope that you take advantage and appreciate the transcriptions that we're now doing, because I interviewed a couple weeks ago, you heard it, Haben Girma, who is a deafblind graduate of Harvard Law School. And after that interview, and I have a friend at Google who is deaf, who I played hockey with. You know, I felt a moral obligation to have transcriptions for every episode. So in the last couple months, we've been transcribing every episode and I'm going back through the archives. My intent is to have all 90 episodes transcribed. And I don't mean just machine generated transcription. I mean like high quality, getting all the nouns right and all that kind of transcription. So if you are deaf or if you know anybody who's deaf, I hope you will look at the transcriptions. There's a lot of effort. There's probably six hours of work in each hour of transcription. And also I heard of a novel used for transcription, which is people who are learning English. They listen to the podcast and then they read the transcription simultaneously to listen to people spoken English. If you think about it, you know, I have 90 very, very remarkable people spoken English recorded. So I, I would make the case that these are very good role models to listen to if you want to speak American English. Well, anyway, well, Jane Goodall is British, so. So I. I missed that question. Jeff, can you put that question back up? Do you think posh policy is enough to prevent sexual harassment at work? I don't know. I think we should do all we can. I mean, it's. I think it's heinous. I really do. I really think it's heinous. Just taking advantage like that of kids and women. They're just, that's. There's no form of scum lower than that. But anyway, so what else? What else you got, Curly between books? What's a book that you would recommend. Okay, I am reading. One second. I'll be right back. It. This is the book that I'm currently. Make sure the Shadow there. It's called There. There you go. So it's a book by Daniel Silva. It's called the Cellist. Daniel Silva writes this series of books where the main character is a guy named Gabriel Alon, and he is. Is. Is he currently in charge of Mossad? But anyway, it's. It's an Israeli spy novel series. And I just, I love this series. And so that's the book that I'm currently reading, the Cellist. I'll tell you, another favorite author of mine is Lee Child, because Lee Child writes this book about Jack Reacher. So Gabriel Alon and Jack Reacher are two of my favorite characters. And I have to admit, I very seldom read nonfiction. Well, that's not true. I read nonfiction a lot, but I read nonfiction. The scenario here is that I have to prepare for an interview with a Remarkable People guest. And many of the Remarkable People guests have written books. So I often read, you know, two or three books a week to prepare for interviews. But that's like, quote, unquote, my job. But which book do I read for pleasure? I read spy novels and I read Jack Reacher books. So what else? What other comments or questions do you have? This crowd may be too young to know of your resignation in Maxwell at Apple. Do you have a tube? Okay, so when I, when I resigned from Apple, this was in. In 1987, I created a Mac draw document where I had an integrated text and graphics. I had a bar chart there and it was a one page resignation letter. Like, no drama, no nothing. It was just in and out. Aloha. And the reason why he's asking about this story is because let's just say that back then, to have an integrated text and graphics with a bar chart and a resignation letter was unusual. So, yeah, that's what he's talking about. I resigned. And that resignation went to Jean Louis Gasse. So there's a whole story. So, you know, a lot of people ask me, well, why did I leave Apple? And there's two stories. One story is to pursue the opportunities of Macintosh software. That is story A. Story B is that you want to know the dirty gory details. So I was up for a job review and I was one level below director. I keep looking up at the. I keep looking up where the camera used to be high. And I. I know I should be looking there, but I keep looking there. So forgive me, I Gotta break this habit of looking up. So, so anyway, I was at the manager level at Apple, and the next level up was director. And at the director level, Apple bought you any car you wanted. So I wanted to be director level because at that point I really wanted a car that I couldn't afford. Anyway, so once you get to be a director, then it's not your problem. Apple buys you the car. And so I really wanted this promotion. And I go into this meeting with the person who I work for, I will not tell you his name. And basically the gist of that review was, well, Guy, we're really happy with your efforts with the small developers like Aldis and Silicon Valley, Silicon Beat Software, you know, all the small Mac startups that are doing the most innovative products. But. And here comes the but. But companies like Microsoft and Lotus and Ashton Tate do not like you. And so when I heard that, I thought, oh, this is sounding better and better because frankly, those companies should not like me. Microsoft was copying the Macintosh user interface. Ashton Tate had a piece of cross crap for Macintosh, and Lotus also had a piece of crap called Modern Jazz. And so I'm thinking, okay, so one, one company is ripping us off and the other two companies are mediocre. They should be pissed off with me. But that's not how it went down. And so the next part of the interview as well, since those three companies are so crucial to our efforts, I'm not giving you a promotion because, you know, you kind of failed. So that's just like I was ready to resign on the spot. So I go to Jean Louis Guesse. And at the time we were at equal levels in the organization. And so I went to Jean Louis. Yes, A. And I said, Jean Louis, you know, this is what happened. They didn't give me a promotion because these three companies don't like me. I cannot even wrap my mind around that. Jean Louis. And so I'm gonna quit. And Jean Louis said, no, don't quit yet because. Because it's going to be a reorg. I'm going to be your boss. The next time your review comes up, which is in six months, I'll make you a director and then you can leave Apple as a director as opposed to a manager. And leaving as a director is very good for your resume. This is before LinkedIn, by the way. Anyway, so I said, okay. So I worked for six more months. Jean Louis gave me a promotion to director. But like three days after that, April 1st, I resigned to start a Mac software company. So that's why on My Resume on my LinkedIn, it says I was a director at Apple, but I was only a director for a very short time because Jean Louis convinced me to stay. So that's a whole story behind the resignation story. So what other stories do you want to hear? Web. Web. Hey, hello, Apple. What are your thoughts about the news desert? Most of us find us in web. What news desert are you talking about? I think we have a freaking news overload. Maybe authentic news that might be a desert. But no, I, I'm covered here. I, I web, I got news coming out of my ears. Although I have to tell you, if anybody here works for Google News, like what the hell is going on with Google News? I could make the case that Google News has caused more people to focus on their families than any app because Google News, it puts up stories that you've been seeing for three days. Sometimes a story is a week old. And I have to tell you, for the life of me, I dread the start of a new sports season because when a new sports season starts, Google News starts sending me every news item from like the Pittsburgh Steeler Gazette and then the 49er times and then you know, the chicagocubs.org or you know, it's like every sporting good, every, every major league sports, you know, the, the Chatham Soccer Club dot com. I mean like I get all these things and I keep saying, I keep suppressing those stories. I don't want to see, I don't want to see about the Pittsburgh Steelers. I don't see Cleveland Brown on the Miami Dolphins. I don't want all those stinking little, you know, sports publications news. Google News just keeps sending you. It's dreadful if you're on Google News and a new season starts. So I don't know what algorithm they have in Google News but man, it's piss poor. So tell people at Google News that's what it's like. What else? Oh, web sustenance. So did I get the car? No, I didn't get the car because I immediately resigned. I have to tell you though, to this day I love cars. And like in a dream world, in a dream world, I wish there was an electric 911. If there was an electric 911, I would buy one today because I just love the 911 and I feel it would be socially irresponsible to buy another gas car right now. At least unless it gets like 45 miles per gallon or even if the 911 or a hybrid or a plug in hybrid, either one. I Know, I could buy a taycan. A taycan is just not a 911, so. And I'm not buying a Tesla, so that's off the table. So, anyway, tell us the good, bad and ugly about Steve Jobs. Okay, so listen, everybody. We're going off the rails here on a lot of different subjects, but I want you to practice. Promise me. Hold up your hand. I want you to promise me that you are going to go to remarkable people. Oh, man. Clairvoyance there. You're going to go to remarkable people.com and you're going to listen to my podcast. Because I guarantee you that if you go and listen to these interviews, and they're 95% of the time it's the other person talking, not me, you will learn how to be remarkable. I guarantee it. So good, bad and ugly of Steve Jobs. So Steve Jobs, every story, every rumor, every, like, apocryphal thing you've heard about him is probably true. He was very difficult to work for. Extremely demanding, scary. You know, most HR theory is about how you are positive and you focus on mutually agreed upon goals and, you know, you focus on the good things, you minimize the bad things. You know, blah, blah, blah. Steve Jobs did none of that shit. I mean, he just basically scared the shit out of you. And the way he scared the shit out of me is that I saw him rip other employees in public. And I told myself, guy, you are never going to be that person. You're never going to get ripped in public. And so I spent a lot of my time at Apple doing the best thing I could, the best work I could, so that I would never be embarrassed that I see him humiliate people. I'm not telling you, I recommend that as a management style, but I have to tell you, it worked. At least it worked on me, man. Fear is a great motivator. So, yeah, so that's the good, bad and ugly of Steve Jobs. But you know what? I think many people misunderstand that. You know, Steve Jobs was a difficult person, a very demanding person, but he was often, or I mean, almost all the time, right, too. So, you know, the easy part of being an. Is being an. The hard part is being an asshole. Who's right? And that's what most people don't do. So if you want to be the next Steve Jobs, it's not about wearing jeans or black mock turtlenecks or not licensing your car or, you know, ripping people in public. It's about having his insights into how the market will evolve. That's what he could do. And I suppose if you had that much insight, you don't need to be an asshole. But I'll tell you something, there has never been a Steve Jobs. And I guess you could make the case that Elon Musk is maybe the closest thing we have to a Steve Jobs right now. But arguably you could make the case that Elon Musk may impact the world more because Steve was all about personal computers and development devices. Elon is, you know, he's going to Mars. He's making solar panels, making electric cars boring tunnels. I mean, he's doing a lot more diverse stuff. So, yeah. So for remarkable people podcast, how many guests typically do you line up in advance? Let's see. So at any given point we are about four to six weeks out. So right now. I'll tell you exactly where we are right now because I don't remember. Let's see, what's the easiest way for me to do this? Let me think here. Okay, so today we have Jody Kantor, right? New York Times investigative reporter, broke the Harvey Weinstein story. Next week we have Hugh Howey. Hugh is the self published author of the Wool series. So if you're into science fiction and self publishing, Hugh Howey is next week. The following week is Cody Keenan. Cody Keenan was Barack Obama's speechwriter. Suffice it to say he has a lot of interesting stories about being Barack Obama's speechwriter. After that it's Erika Duan. Erica Duan is an expert in interpersonal digital communications. Basically, that interview is about how you can, you can use quote unquote, digital body language to engage people better that it's a whole new skill that because of the pandemic and because of virtualization and much communication, it's a whole new skill called digital body language. And then after that it's Mark Schulman. Mark Schulman is the drummer for Pink. He used to be the drummer for Cher. Let's see, Billy Idol. I always forget it's either Journey or Foreigner, one of those two. And so yeah, he. That's the rock star interview. What's it like to be a rock star? What it's like working with Pink? What it's like working with Cher. And after that it's going to be Adam Curry, one of the pioneers of mtv. So let's count here. So today's Jody Kantor. So Hugh Cody. 3, 4, 5. So right now we have recorded, though not necessarily fully edited, four episodes from now, the fifth episode. Adam Curry is scheduled but not interviewed. And the reason why it's scheduled but not interviewed is because I'm in Hawaii for three weeks, and so I don't have the right facilities to properly record a episode. So, anyway, long answer to your question is about four or five weeks out. What else? Ah, so Kit Griffin likes Sean Thompson. Sean Thompson, personal friend of mine. Sean Thompson really more or less invented professional surfing. This was in the 70s, and he's from South Africa. He, he, he kind of pioneered tube riding. The tube, you know, where the wave breaks over. You're inside the wave. And so Sean Thompson was really, if you're into surfing, kind of the Kelly Slater of his day. And the. If you're not a surfer. The reason why you should listen to the Sean Thompson episode. Oh, God, I keep looking at the wrong place. The reason why you should look at the Sean Thompson episode is because all surfing aside, he talks about flow, getting into the state of flow, which that applies whether you're a surfer or a podcaster or a programmer or a writer. So if you want to learn about getting into the state of flow, get the Sean Thompson episode. Okay. Any more questions? Oh, we've gone nine minutes long. You mean. A great inspiration to me. What changed my life was your advice about mahalo or gratitude. I literally had the video saved up on my phone and still do and watch it whenever I was having a hard time with life. More than an influence. You've been a mentor. And thank you for what you said, which I personally saw as something you said just for me. Wow. Well, Thomas, I am. Thank you for reaching out. I am flattered that my video had such a positive force in your life. That's very gratifying to hear. Thank you very much for telling me that. And I hope that you continue to have success here. And yeah, so I think I'm gonna kind of sign off here. So don't forget, you promised. Right. Remarkable people. You're gonna go listen to the episode. Jody Kanter last week was Dave Weiner. Dave Weiner was the pioneer behind podcasting, blogging and rss. Unsung hero of computer technology and social media, Dave Weiner. And before that was Haben Girma, who was the deafblind or is the deafblind graduate of Harvard Law School. That's remarkablepeople.com. join my text group at 831-609-0628. Don't forget that this episode, well, every episode recently is sponsored by Restream, where you can have 30 platforms streaming at once. High definition audio, high definition video, comments all. All put together for you and brought to one place. And soon you'll be able to stream live on your guests platform as well as yours. So all that good stuff and let's see. I think that's it Again, this week's guest is Jodi Kantor, New York Times Catalyst of the MeToo movement, with her book, she Said and her Breaking the Story of Harvey Weinstein. So that's this week, and I hope you have a great week. And right now I'm surfing in Waikiki at a break called Publix. So if you're a surfer in Hawaii, see you at Publix sometime. All right. I'm on a bright orange board this week because I want to make it easy to recover me if I get blown out to see. So another great week of remarkable people. Thank you very much. Take care. Aloha. It.