Susie Wolff | Driven | Talks at Google

Welcome to the stage, Suzy Wolfe.

Hi! Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.

Oh no, welcome, welcome, Suzy. It's truly an honor to have you here with us. And welcome everyone who is joining us here from New York and joining us virtually as well. As you may or may not know, Suzy's name is synonymous with breaking boundaries. From a record-breaking career in karting to becoming the first woman in 22 years to take part in the Formula One race weekend, she has consistently redefined what it means to be an elite athlete in motorsport. And then after retiring from the cockpit, she successfully pivoted into leadership, which I think is the most impressive part of this journey so far. It just keeps getting more impressive. But serving as a team principal and CEO of the Venturi Racing Formula E team. So today she's the managing director of the F1 Academy, where she's using her decades of experience to architect a new future for the global talent in motorsport. She joins us today to discuss her new memoir, Driven, which is awesome. I highly encourage everyone to pick it up. It chronicles her journey from rainy tracks of Scotland to the highest level of Formula One management. And it's a story about what happens when you stop waiting for permission and start charging through the doors that life cracks open. And in a lot of cases, plowing through those those doors, Susie. So great job. Uh, we have so much to get into from your early days following your heart and leaving university with that warrior mindset, um, and to this beautiful book that you got to write with your brother. So welcome so much to the stage. Thank you for being here.

Thank you so much. Maybe before we get started, I've just got a question for the audience. How many of you are Formula 1 fans? Oh my goodness, that's so So encouraging. And how many of you— this is maybe a little bit of a controversial question— how many of you have been fans before Drive to Survive? Ah, you're— yeah, I get it. You're like, I'm the before Drive to Survive fan. Okay. No, it's super encouraging for us in F1 to see just how much Formula 1 has grown in popularity in the US. And obviously, it's the Miami Grand Prix this weekend. So thank you all for coming. And thank you for having me.

Yeah, I know. So excited to get to have the discussion. And so, Susie, to start us off, you've You described the sensation of driving an F1 car, and you did it so vividly in the book. And now meeting you in person, it just sounds impossible, so challenging physically, not even getting into the mental. But you said it felt like 5 times your body weight ricocheting your head around. Your lungs are pushing against your rib cage. After that level of physical intensity, um, what do you miss most about that feeling? And what do you definitely not miss?

Definitely don't miss all the training sessions. You know, my, my neck took a lot of strain because when you are driving an F1 car, you're strapped in so tightly and the seat's obviously molded to you. But the only thing that isn't obviously fixed is, is your neck. And people don't realize that in an F1 car there's power steering. So it's not actually the force of turning the wheel, which is tough, which is difficult to comprehend because when you see the size of the car and the tires, you think, well, it must be hard to turn. But because of the power steering, it's actually very light, and a driver can very much play with how much power steering they want in the car. So you get huge forces coming through your neck. And I remember in one of the test sessions I did at Barcelona, I was doing a race distance, and I came to the first braking zone, and you hit about 4.5 G, and 1 G is your own body weight. And my head got thrown forward and I thought, "I got 74 laps of this." But you get accustomed to it, but the training is really relentless. And I guess because I knew a lot of people questioned whether a woman would be physically fit enough to drive an F1, that I certainly didn't want that to be the barrier that stopped me. So I was very disciplined in the training and that is one thing I don't miss it all. But when I was discussing with my brother how to open the book, I very much— because I love reading autobiographies regardless of whether it's sport or business, because I love real-life stories. And when I looked at the books which really drew me in, which I really enjoyed, it's when the author brought me into their world and took me on the journey. So when we were discussing how to open the book, We knew we didn't want it to just be a motorsport book that chronicled the kind of journey through racing. And my brother said, people, I would love people to know what it's actually like because I would love to know what it's like to drive an F1 car. So we opened the book by really trying to bring you on that journey of what it's like sitting in an F1 car driving for the first time. But certainly now when I wake up and decide whether to go to the gym or not, I love the fact that it's my choice, that I'm not forced to go and put huge weights through my neck.

No, that's great. And I remember in the book where you're trying to decide if you add the neck cushions or not add the neck cushions. I'm glad you joined and put in the neck cushions.

I'm glad too, and I have to thank Luis for that one because there's a long right-hand bend at Barcelona and it's notorious because it's long and you have to hold your neck. And he said to me, if you're doing a race distance get them to put the neck pad in, paint it the same color as the car so nobody can see that it's there, and he said, don't even try and keep your head up through turn 3. First lap, lean the head because if your neck goes, it goes and there's no getting it back. So it was actually really good advice, and I never actually worried getting through turn 3 'cause the minute I turned right, I leant my head, and I breezed through that corner not having to—

Breezed.

Keep my head up. Yeah, maybe it wasn't a breeze, but it certainly didn't stop me from doing 74 laps.

It's just crazy. It's just kind of like inconceivable, the, the strain on your body. Well, I loved also in the book how much you shared about your personal experiences and your family and, uh, just growing up in Scotland, and that your parents really created this environment of try everything. And you, uh, I listened, had the opportunity to listen on the audio and get to hear your acute Scottish accent saying, you know, "Give it a go." And I just really love that, that I could hear your mother probably saying that to you. And right alongside your brother, like, all the challenges you got to go through together, that was really amazing. So, how did you feel, you know, that early environment in your career where you had family supporting you so much to push you to try things, to try things when you're in a room where people didn't look like you, how do you feel that impacted your life and the opportunities that then you went on to create for yourself? Yourself?

Well, you all look very young. Do any of you have children? Yeah, very few. That's, that's the age group here. Um, I look back and I'm so grateful to my parents because I have an older brother who's only 15 months older than me, but they didn't differentiate between son and daughter. And he had a little motorbike. I wanted a little motorbike. I got one. I never really— because my dad had a motorbike shop And I never really realized that I was a tomboy. I still loved Barbie, and I obviously bring Barbie to life in the book because my whole journey with the color pink and Barbie. But it was important for me because I certainly went through a spell in my career where I thought I had to kind of shy away from my femininity because I wouldn't be taken seriously. And I'm sure many of the women in this room maybe feel there's moments in their career where they're not sure how to turn up, how to be, because you get judged so much as women. As to how we turn up. And I went through that battle, you know, if I was too feminine, well, would I be taken seriously? Would they think I meant business? If I didn't make an effort on my appearance, then okay, that wouldn't be great for the kind of whole commercial side of the sport. So it was a real balancing act kind of going through that. And I'm just grateful that the environment I grew up with really gave me that solid foundation And I think culturally in the sport, we've seen a huge shift in the last 5 years where there are more women and it's more acceptable. The environment isn't as macho and male-dominated, and F1 Academy is playing a big part in that change. But I'm really happy to see that change happening because I think it's a sport where we've seen so many more young female fans. I loved racing as a little girl and was lucky that I didn't have an environment around me telling me that I, I couldn't be in the world of racing. But I think there is still this stereotype that we have to break down, that it's, it's a male-dominated environment that isn't welcoming to young girls, because it absolutely is. And I can share with you, we did a Hello Kitty collab at the Las Vegas Grand Prix last year. It sold out really well and beat some other collaborations. We're now with Disney, and it's, it's a It's about bringing this whole femininity, and it's okay to like pink but still love racing. And I think that's something which is important, 'cause if I go back to my childhood, I was lucky to have that environment, but not everybody does. And we as a sport need to make sure that we speak to that new, young, next generation.

Right. And I thought it was interesting how you said you were all pink and then realized you were standing out and kind of getting targeted for that, so then scaled way back on that. And then once you had established yourself and had earned everyone's respect for your abilities, then you could transition back into being a little more pink. How did that whole sequence feel to you?

I had a really big love affair with the color pink. I mean, I drove a pink car when I raced for Mercedes-Benz in German touring cars, and at the time I hated it because it was so cliché. Female blonde racing driver in a pink car. But I realized more young girls came to the track because of that pink car. And I think that's when I realized that, that representation matters, that it's actually bolder and more confident to go out there and fight against these stereotypes and not let it speak to my ability in the car. But I also think I realized quite early on, and I've said this very often, that performance is your key power regardless. You know, in my sport we wear a helmet, so actually don't see the driver out on track. But I'm sure for all of you that are in your work environments, if you're really good at what you do, it kind of becomes irrelevant if it's a male or a female that's, that's in your team or sitting in a meeting with you. It's about being really good at what you do. And I think certainly We are in a situation where women are getting more opportunities, but fundamentally it doesn't matter if you're a man or woman, just be really good at what you do. And that's what I realized, that would cut through all the noise about my gender, about all the opinions of whether a woman could be successful in a male-dominated world, because we're one of the few sports that isn't segregated in the world. There's sailing, which always involves big boat, um, horse riding or jumping, which which, very big animal, and motorsport, which involves a big car, because I'd be the first to admit, put me on a running field against a man and I'm never gonna win the race. Men have 30% more muscle. But I think in a sport like motorsport, it just comes down to the fact that there's so few women racing, the talent pool is so small that you just get very few climbing up through the ranks.

I liked how you surprised some people on swimming too, if you wanna share that little anecdote. From the book.

I felt it was important to put that story in because it kind of showed my character from an early age.

I love it.

Because I was never the most talented at swimming, but I had a lot of tenacity and I was very, very competitive. So my brother and I would go to swim training 3 times a week in the morning, and it came to the coach picking the squad, and we were all lined up, and of course my brother got picked, my best friend Heidi got picked and I didn't get picked. And I remember hating that feeling of everyone having pity for me, saying, "Oh, poor Susie, don't worry, next time." Hated that. And in my head at the same moment, I was thinking, "Coach, you just made a big mistake, and I am going to show you that you made a big mistake." So I started I was training really hard, and when the first gala came, I of course beat some of the girls that had made the squad. And there wasn't really a recognition of me then being put in the squad. He just said to me one day, "Come on, you're training with the squad," and you go. Because I think he, he realized that with my character, there was no way I was going to not accept being in the squad. But that competitiveness, that resilience to fight back when I failed ultimately. I'm so glad that's in me because that held me in really good stead because there were so many moments throughout my career that I did fail. And I remember doing a little speech for my son's school and an audience of 9 to 11-year-olds, that's a tough audience. I kind of, you know, for 8 minutes spoke about driving and racing and We put the questions to the floor and all these little hands went up, and I picked this little boy who looked like he had a really friendly face, and he said, "So how many races have you actually won?" I was like, "Whoa, tough." I said, "Well, you know, I've actually lost way more than I've won," because if your name's not Lewis Hamilton, you know, there is only ever one winner to any race, and it's really It's really tough to win, but I learnt from the races I didn't win. I came back stronger. He didn't look very impressed. And then the second question was from a little girl who said, well, what character trait do I need to become a racing driver? What do you think is the most important? And I'm pretty sure she thought I was going to say, you know, hand-eye coordination or balance. But without having to even think twice, I said, you've got to have grit and determination. You've got to have resilience because there's going to be so many tough moments, whatever sport you choose. And it's the ones that pick themselves back up in those moments of failure that defines whether you make a career or whether you become successful over a longer period. Because there was definitely— and I bring to life some of those really tough moments in the book, but I don't want anyone to think that my journey was plain sailing and, and fuel only full of big successes because there was definitely more tough moments.

Yeah, I know, they're definitely— you highlighted many of them. And I thought there was another comment which I really appreciate, I think, and here too, Will, just as we're— some of us are mothers, but that 85% of executive women played sports while they were young, and it wasn't the winning or losing but the grit that it teaches you and how important building that skill is. I find, you know, having grown up being a competitive athlete as well, all of those determination things come so full circle in the work setting, which I know you carry over into your work setting as well.

100%. So there's any women in the audience who are not doing sports, quickly start playing something because you will learn some really good things for your, for your business careers. But I I definitely think, you know, my little son is also karting now, and who knows if he's going to be good enough over the longer term, but I just see how much it helps his character. You know, putting yourself out there, whether it's in a team sport or an individual sport, there's just so much you can learn in that environment. And certainly in this day and age where, let's be honest, it's tough sometimes. I think building up that resilience and them coping with failure you're not shielding them from the difficult moments that, that can come. I think for me as a mother, that's, that's really important for, for him to have.

Yeah, that resilience for sure. Well, let's spend a second, um, you highlighted as you, your professional career was taking off and you had met Lotta and she helped you find a rib protector that actually fit for your body. And I know it seems like a small detail, but I really loved how you described it as really a turning a turning point for you in the book, and finding someone who really understood the challenges that you were going through. So, can you tell us a little bit more about that, about finding sponsorship, even in the small moments like that?

Definitely. You know, Lotta was a very successful kart driver. She was Swedish. She was about, at the time, probably 15 years older than I was. She was the only kart driver that I knew that was female and that had been very successful. And I ended up driving for her team. And I think just seeing someone who was achieving what I wanted to achieve was already hugely important on my journey. That whole, if you can see it, you can believe it. I'm definitely a big supporter of of creating those strong role models, because I could see how it opened up, especially at that point where I was around 14, it really opened up the fact, well, if Lotte can do it, then I can do it. And it's quite funny when I looked back, because at the age of 8, you know, I was racing, I had Formula One drivers up on my wall, of course they were all men, but I never once thought that I couldn't do it just because I didn't see any women. But I do think as you get into your teenage years, everything becomes a bit harder. You may be lacking confidence at certain points in your life. It is really important to see those female role models. And then, you know, Lotte was tough because she knew how tough it was to be successful in racing. But she really put an arm around me in those key moments, helped me. And it was like this idea of a sisterhood where she was looking out for me and she was someone to look up to. So I saw firsthand how powerful that was, and that's why I feel very privileged to be in a role now at F1 Academy where I can be that for the next generation. And I'm certainly older now than I— than, let's say, that I can be very close to what the experiences they are going through, because the sport is definitely different different now to when I was racing, but I do love the fact that they can see someone that's achieved and they've got other women around them who are achieving, who are going through the same journey as them. There's a certain camaraderie in F1 Academy. Yes, they need to beat each other on track, but they're all going through the same lived experience, the same pressures. And I think having other women— even not just women, but other people on the journey with you who can pick you up in the tough moments can be cheering for you on the sidelines in the great moments. It's really important who you surround yourself with. And I was lucky to have some great people, male and female, throughout my journey. But certainly, I always say to the next generation, be very conscious of who's around you because that can have such an influence. Yeah, for sure.

And what you've created with the F1 Academy is amazing. Maybe just spend a minute, in case everyone isn't aware of it, What all that includes?

That's a really good question for our audience. Who is aware of F1 Academy? That's, that's really encouraging. Yeah. So F1 Academy was started by Formula One. I don't take the credit. It was Formula One who said, okay, we have got a real shift in the demographic of our fan base. I mean, 42% of the global F1 fan base is now female. Fastest growing fan demographic is the 18 to 24-year-old female. So the sport really recognized recognized that shift. They wanted to start F1 Academy to create opportunity because in our sport there's a very high financial barrier to entry and we fully fund the 18 young drivers. Well, over 80% fully fund the 18 young drivers on the grid. And we segregate because we only want to really help the female talent because there's so little female talent. But we also race alongside F1 to give the exposure to make sure that the next generation, the parents of the next generation also— that's very important— see that the sport is inclusive, see that there are opportunities for young women. And it's not just about the racing drivers. We try to open up every aspect of the sport and really break down the stereotype that there's no opportunity for women. And certainly we've seen a big cultural shift in the sport. More and more very talented women in the paddock, not always in camera-facing roles. You don't always see them, but I've certainly, from being in the sport for such a long time, seen such a shift and probably never expected to see such a shift, um, in such a short space of time. So I think F1 Academy— and obviously we have the 11 Formula 1 teams on board— and I think that's quite a testament to how the sport has shifted, because those 11 Formula 1 teams have never given their name and livery to anything outside of the F1 cars they build. So for them to commit to F1 Academy, to commit to supporting a young female driver, that's a real, I think, credit to where the sport is and how much they mean business. It's, it's not just a diversity box-ticking exercise. I think we all, we all know those when we see them. But this is something which I think really if one realizes it's fundamental to its long-term growth and popularity.

No, it was an amazing effort on your part. And you're very humble to not take as much credit as I think was so critical for you personally being involved in getting all those companies to sign on. And we at Google, we spend a lot of time. We're building first of a kind everything all the time. And it's a collaboration. Chaotic environment. And I think everyone in this room has the experience of trying to get something done where you had to corral and deliver influence on people and get something done. And maybe talk a little bit about how you were able to do that and just get all those 11 companies who have never signed something together to do that. Because in our daily lives, we're constantly faced with the challenge of trying to drive a result, but our only stick is influence.

Yeah, when I had this— so I, I can take you back to the beginning of the journey, and I obviously put it in the book. I remember when I took on the role, I drove to the first race. We raced not with Formula 1 at the time, and it was at a circuit called Paul Ricard, so not far from where I live in Monaco. And I remember getting near the track thinking, it's strange There's no cars around. It's so quiet. And I drove in and I thought, I got mixed up with the dates or something because I've never been to such an empty racetrack. And I drove in and it was literally just the F1 Academy trucks and nobody there. And I'd never been at such a deserted racetrack before. And I got out of my car and I immediately got met by two of the team bosses who said, listen, this is not working. We're not finding any sponsorship. So We're out at the end of the year. It's like, okay, great to see you. And then some of the drivers came to see me and said, well, listen, we're supposed to pay for one-third of our budget, but we also can't find the money. So I'm just telling you now that I can't pay what I owe you. I said, okay guys, let's take a step back here. And I spent the day and the next day there, and I called Stefano, the CEO of Formula 1, and said, well, this is not going to work. Because nobody's finding sponsorship money. It was set up that Liberty would pay one-third of the budget, the driver one-third, and the team one-third. So we had a flooded market of everyone searching for sponsorships, some asking for €5,000, some asking for €500,000, and it was just so disjointed. And obviously no sponsor is going to pay to be in a race car that's racing in front of an empty audience, like literally nobody on the grandstand. So Stefano kind of said, well, what do you want to do about it? I said, well, I need to figure out how we turn this around into something which can really have an impact mid to long term and be financially sustainable. And I went away and spoke to a lot of people I respect in the industry. Some that I knew were against F1 Academy, I wanted to hear why. But I really got a lot of opinion leaders together to figure out, okay, how could we build something? I went to the governing bodies of certain countries and asking them, well, how many young women are you seeing coming into the sport? What are the challenges you face? I tried to just bring as much knowledge to the situation. And then I went to Stefano and his F1 management team and said, okay, we need to race with F1 and we need to get the 11 F1 teams on board and we need to bring all commercial assets in-house. So I got the green light and I kind of said, Stefano, so shall we approach the F1 teams together? So, no, no, you can, you can do that. So obviously I had one at home, um, but the one at home is my biggest supporter but also my biggest critic. He said, well, you know, I can't be the first, so get 6 on board, you'll have the majority, then I'll have to do it. Great, great. Thank you for that.

Thanks for your help.

But I have to say, when I went to see Fred Vasseur, who I'd known for a long time at Ferrari, it was kind of also a little bit his idea because I said, "Would you consider coming into F1 Academy?" He said, "Yeah, and we can paint the car red." I said, "Okay, paint the car red. What about a little Ferrari sticker?" But I had Ferrari and then Zak Brown at McLaren was hugely supportive. And then at the time Christian Horner ran Red Bull Red Bull. That had the potential to be tricky given his lack of relationship with my husband, and, um, but he was actually very supportive. I had friends at CAA who worked very closely commercially with Red Bull who had kind of explained why this was such an important project for F1. So suddenly I had 4 teams. I had got 2 more on board, and suddenly I had that magic 6 that meant I could count Toto in. That was 7. The last 3, and I don't mention their names in the book because I feel it's not fair on them, were very dubious. So I said to them at one point where just things weren't moving, well, we're going to go ahead without you. Oh. And they said, well, you're just going to make, you know, you put our backs against the wall, you're going to make us look really bad. Yeah, maybe 'You're gonna look bad, but that's something you're going to have to live with.' So to cut the long story short, we started legally getting the documentation together for— with the 7 teams, 7 sets of F1 lawyers trying to agree on the same document. There was a lot of late nights with the F1 legal team, and it was challenging in a way because they were also unknowns. They challenged us, 'Well, how are you going to cope with this?' And I would have to really sit down with the legal team and say, 'Well, how do we cope with this?' Because because it was uncharted waters. How would we set this up that worked for the F1 teams, worked for the promoter, worked for us? So there was a lot of kind of figuring it out as we went along. But we got to the point where we had a document all 7 agreed on. Then the last 3, I kind of said, well, you're signing it now because you're not changing it after we've spent 3 months trying to get where we are. And then suddenly we were at the point where we could announce. And it was also a pinch-me moment for me because I wasn't ever hugely confident that we could get it done, but we did. And I think that was definitely down to a lot of tenacity of refusing to take no for an answer. And then I had to go out to the promoters and figure out how we would piece together a calendar that raced alongside F1. We had Some that were hugely supportive from the get-go, and surprising maybe for some of you, but Saudi Arabia, the first to sign up to say, you know, just 7 years ago women couldn't drive in our country, but we absolutely want to be at the forefront of supporting women's sport. And then one by one we pieced them together. I won't lie, Stefano did have to call a couple and say, they're coming, there's no way you're going to stop them. But it was It was in that first, I would say, 18 months, really, really tough because it did feel like I had one other person in the team at that time. It felt like we were a two-woman show just trying to break down doors and we just refused to take no for an answer. I was very lucky to have Stefano's support and the support from F1. But then suddenly the kind of tide turned and we got more momentum. I obviously, with the F1 teams on board, had 10 cars. Covered, but I still had 6 liveries, so I needed to find 6 commercial partners. And I remember I woke up on the 1st of January and thought, how am I going to get 6 sponsors on board by March? And I kind of said to Toto, this is going to be really difficult. And he— I'll never forget— he said, you'll figure it out. And I hate when people say that because they have this belief that I I'll somehow figure out. In that moment, I didn't think I knew how I was going to figure it out, but I very famously got through a contact, a friend of a friend, to Charlotte Tilbury, the makeup brand. Within 4 minutes of the first conversation, I knew we were going to do something. Um, became the biggest sports partnership announcement of that year, and suddenly the momentum came. Everyone talked about that partnership. Tommy Hilfiger, someone that had been in the sport a long time. I called him and he said, "I'm with you." Then suddenly American Express, and then we had Puma, and it was just a momentum, you know, the wheel started turning and suddenly it all came together. But there were still moments, to your point, of being a team that has to come up with new solutions, it has to find a way. It was tough at times because I was navigating something completely new And, and it's all very nice to now sit on a stage and say, well, look where we are now. But there were days at the very beginning where it was tough and it didn't look like we were going to turn it around in such a short space of time. So thankful that we got there in the end.

Yeah, that was amazing. And there's this little thing called AI going on right now. You may have heard.

No, I didn't hear about that.

Yeah, maybe it may just be a fad like the internet, but it doesn't Everyone in this room is kind of being challenged to think about it in all new ways. And we're really all in uncharted waters, making it up as we go along. So as a leader in that uncharted water area, are there a couple other tidbits you'd share with us as we're all feeling around our way through it?

I mean, I feel like I can't compare what I did to what you're doing, because the scale is slightly different and you are, I guess, doing something huge in the world right now and it's transforming the way we live. But certainly I was quite honest when the F1 teams and the legal teams challenged me, well, how are you going to cope with that? I would quite often say, that's a really good question. I don't know yet, but let me go and sit with the people who do know and we're going to figure it out and come back to you with a solution. And quite often we would come back and And the legal team said, well, that works, but then we can't have our logo sitting, you know, things like the garage setup. All the F1 teams had to sit next to each other. There wasn't going to be walls. So how would their logos sit? So lots of areas where they really voiced their concerns and we said, you're right, I get that. We don't have the answer right now. Let us come back to you and figure out a solution. And it was never the first solution that was acceptable, but it was very much Okay, let's collaborate, let's find a way to get to the solution. And that did take compromise. And certainly there was a couple of occasions where F1, who protects its IP so, so carefully, had to make concessions because I said, well, we're not F1, we're not a 75-year-old brand that's globally recognized and one of the biggest sporting platforms in the world. We have your logo in our name with F1 Academy. But you can't treat F1 Academy the same as you can treat F1 because we need our logo out there. We can't charge people to show our logo, and we need the teams to have the right to use the logo. So lots of firsts also for Formula 1, and they had to take a leap of faith, um, that to give us the rights to use the IP in a way that was very different to how F1 did. But I think that idea of collaboration, being honest when you don't have all the answers, but figuring out solutions and compromises to get to the end product that is a win-win for everyone. And then of course, when I was signing the F1 teams, it was on a vision. F1 Academy wasn't set up to be what it is now, so they had to take a leap of faith. But I, on the other hand, said, if it doesn't work, you can walk away. You know, I'm not going to bind you to something that if you you see after one season is not giving you a return on investment, is not the right place for your brand to sit, you can walk away. So that they never felt that they were being handcuffed to something long-term. Of course, all of them have now signed up long-term, and it worked. But I think that idea of giving them also the flexibility to not be bound to something that wasn't yet proven was important at the very infancy. Mm-hmm.

So good communication, ability to compromise. Flexibility. All good things. All good things. You spend a fair amount of time in the book just talking about the relationships you had with your— with your teammates, with your colleagues, with people you support. Got a million questions on all of that, but the one I found just really powerful was what a great partner your husband is and how you guys have gone through the journey together figuring out the hard things and how he's challenged you but share with us a little bit because I think it seems like I didn't see many kids in the room, so maybe folks here don't have partners yet. But tell us a little bit about that journey and how it's benefited you.

I'm not going to put you on the spot and ask you who's got a partner or not or who's married or not because that could be really awkward. Hand half up, hand down.

It's complicated.

It's complicated. Oh, I know it's complicated. I recognize that. No, I think not just for the women in the room, but the men in the room as well. I certainly think one of the biggest factors that not just influences your career, but your life, is of course who you choose to spend your life with. And I was, I think, definitely very lucky that Toto met me when I was already racing for Mercedes-Benz in German touring cars, so he knew I had this you know, fighter spirit in me and that I loved racing and I was very competitive. But he was great at not wrapping me in cotton wool. You know, there's the famous story that I put in the book when we arrived at the British Grand Prix. He was obviously running Mercedes F1 and they were going through their dominant years, so hugely successful. And I was going to do the first free practice session for Williams. It was the first time, I think, in 22 years that a woman would be on track on an F1 F1 weekend. I didn't care about that stat, I just wanted to do a really good job. But we arrived at the track together and I kind of left his side to go to William, said, okay, I'll see you later. And he said, well, the next time I see you, you're going to be out on track in an F1 car. I said, yeah. And I could see his face, I thought, here comes the big pep talk, he's gonna, you know, gee me up. And he looked at me and he said, don't be shit. Talk about pep talk, words of encouragement. And in that moment I thought, don't be shit. I will show you, I will not be shit. So I think, you know, that is his Austrian humor as well, but he never wrapped me in cotton wool because he knew how tough racing is and that you had to be good enough. And even in the business world now, he, you know, he wasn't the first for us to sign up for F1 Academy. He said, when you go to 6, then I'm on board, but you've got to figure that out. And he's great at challenging me, but also very much inspiring me. And he was someone that, he is someone that as much as he's my biggest critic, he's at the same time my biggest supporter. And I do think it's so valuable to have that by your side because certainly for me, there had been tough times when I became a mother. A lot of you in the room are not mothers yet. It's tough because you suddenly lose yourself and suddenly there's this little human being that depends on you and there's no longer any possibility to just pop out or to be in, let's say, charge of your own days. But when I said to him quite quickly after becoming a mum that I need to go back to work, I need to find something and somewhere to put all my energy, I'm not done. That ambition that I had just didn't turn off overnight. And when I came up with the project of becoming a team principal in Formula E, which of course meant travel, meant quite a challenge because the team was at the back of the grid, he immediately said, go for it, you can do it. And he actually then said, but don't just become team principal, take equity. That was always his—

the best—

the business acumen. But he did always push me into this to this day, he still pushes me. And a lot of people say to me, well, how do you, how do you work the fact that he's got 24 Formula 1 races a year, you're busy with F1 Academy, you have a family? I don't have the, let's say, the silver bullet how to manage it all. I can promise you there are days where I feel like I'm not managing at all, and I'm up till 2 in the morning trying to work through everything. But I certainly feel that you can prioritize in your I mean, you're a mother to 3 boys and you're hugely successful. You find a way. And I got good at saying no. It doesn't mean I don't get FOMO when I say no and I miss these great events, but I know and rely very much on my gut instinct. What's the moment to go for, let's say, full power my career? When I need to step back and be at home more? When the scheduling just means one of us has to, you know, be there and compromise. But it's a balancing act, and it's, it's most definitely teamwork. It takes a lot of communication. There are a couple of moments in the book where I detailed just losing it. One particular day at the Monaco Grand Prix where Toto said, you look exhausted. I look exhausted? I am exhausted. But I think as, as women, and obviously for the men in the room, it's important to be there to support also. And if you have a situation where you're both going for careers, it is possible. It just takes communication and a lot of support. And there will be the days where you think it's impossible and it's too much, but you just push through those days. And the great days definitely outweigh the tough days.

For sure, for sure. Well, you write candidly in the book, and I know we've got just a few minutes here, but I think kind of two more topics I want to cover. Uh, you write candidly in the book about the period retiring from racing and feeling a little bit lost despite having a very happy life. So, and then finding this next amazing second half of your story, or next chapter I'd say, because I don't think you're anywhere near in the second half yet. Uh, so what advice do you have for people who are navigating a major, a major pivot in their own path? Because you so beautifully navigated yours.

Trust your instinct. You know, there'll be lots of people that give advice, and I think in this day and age with social media, we're bombarded by everyone's success stories. Only you know what your story is or should be, and for all of us it's different, and it's only you that can judge what is the right path for you to follow. And I would definitely say always be conscious of what path you are on, because I've certainly found that sometimes— excuse the pun— you're, you're on the road and you're simply a passenger because you're not in the driving seat anymore. You're dealing with others' expectations. You're just going where the road is taking you without actually thinking Well, is this actually the road I want to be on? Is this the direction that I want the car to go? Because sometimes we just get caught up on the journey and it takes us where it takes us. But just always be conscious of where you are in your journey, where you want your journey to go, and trust your gut instinct. I wouldn't say it always takes you on the easiest journey, but I do think it takes you on the journey that brings you fulfillment and joy, whatever that may be for you. And it's important to determine where your joy lies, what lights you up, because it's different for all of us. For some, it's that balance between, you know, home life and career success. For others, it's much more career success. And don't, you know, feel that you need to keep everyone happy around you, because everyone's got their own expectations of you, their own opinions. You figure out what you want your journey to look like and don't Let yourself be sweet.

I love that. I love that. And being conscious about it, because there are going to be times in everyone's journey on the road— the road's bumpy.

Yep.

The road— you may slow down on that road. Yep. But just be conscious of it. That's very, very beautifully said. Okay, well, so the last one in your book, you end it with talk— a letter to your younger self, which sounds like a sassy little girl that I could relate to. But you do a PS on there. So for the people in this room, I think they could really get some value out of if you wrote another PS to when you ended your race car driving to you became an executive, if you would have given yourself some advice back then, what would that PS look like?

It's funny you mentioned the letter to my younger self because it was when we finished the book 9 drafts later, you can see I'm a perfectionist. Only 9? Um, my brother kind of said, you know, looking back on the journey, you know, what, what would you say to your younger self? And I felt compelled to write that letter at the end because it was more what little Susie still had to teach me. Because I look back with so much admiration, and I'm sure a lot of you, when you were a young girl or a young boy, the dreams we had, the fearlessness we had to go out do what we wanted to do, to chase without limitations, without society's expectations. And I really commend that, that little girl who wanted to be a racing driver and didn't care that there was no other girls out there being racing drivers. So it was more going back and remembering what she had to teach me. But to your question, definitely I look back on that pivot and I would I'd say believe in yourself. There will be moments that you feel like you're an impostor. There will be moments you don't have all the tools to do your job in the correct way. And when I took on the leadership of the Formula E team, I was just an ex-racing driver. I could feel the skepticism in the room of my team saying, well, who is this girl that's come in now to lead this team with no prior experience? But I believed in myself because I'd obviously watched be so successful over so many years, I was the first to admit when I didn't have the answers so that I didn't look like I was trying to, to know it all. But I definitely think in those key moments where you sometimes have doubts or you're not sure, just keep that inner belief in yourself. You can do it. And it's sometimes in those uncomfortable situations where you don't feel like you have all the tools, that's where we grow the most. Get comfortable in the uncomfortable, because I really think that that's the big jumps you, you make, both personally but also professionally in your life. Put yourself in the deep water. You will swim. It's sometimes tough at the beginning, but put yourself out there. Believe in yourself, because you will find a way.

Yeah, amazing, amazing, amazing thoughts. Um, well, Susie, thank you so much. I so enjoyed our conversation, and I know I know the audience did as well.

So thank you.