Héctor García: Finding Your Reason for Living

Want to know when there's a new episode of remarkable people? Simply text 831-609-0628 if you live in the US or Canada, don't miss upcoming shows. Take a moment to follow Remarkable People in your app or podcast player. Happy New Year. I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. We are on a mission to make you remarkable. Helping me in this episode is the remarkable Hector Garcia. Hector moved from Spain to Tokyo in 2004 and began writing a blog called A Geek in Japan. This led to co authoring a book called the Japanese Secret to a Long and Happy Life. The word ikigai roughly means reason for living or the reason you get up in the morning. Hector's book removed the scales from my eyes and helped me understand what makes me tick and in particular my love of podcasting. The book has sold 2 million copies worldwide and has been translated into 59 languages. It is the most translated book ever. Originally written in Spanish, I would rank Ikigai as one of the top five books that have influenced my life. Hector's episode is the first one of the year because understanding the concept of ikigai is a great way to start 2023. If you don't have an ikigai, I hope you find one. And if you already have one, this episode will help you understand it better. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. And now here is the remarkable Hector Garcia. How is it that someone born on the Mediterranean has become an expert in these Japanese concepts?

I wouldn't call myself an expert. I'm very reluctant. I just happen to be living here like now it's going to be almost half of my life. So it's making me think like why I've been half of my life here. I just happen to like writing and I came here when I was 22 years old and by nature I'm very curious and if you've been here in Japan, you know that it's all questions when you're walking on the streets. So I started answering those questions to myself in a blog. I'm one of those old geeks that like they had their own self hosted blog and and I started writing my impressions in the blog and many people in Spain liked what I was writing about Japan and people who knew more than me about Japan started commenting and I started reading books about Japan, learning asking the same questions to Japanese people around me and eventually my blog became one of the top red blogs in Spain. That's also interesting. I don't know why a Japanese blog I think it was a little bit like those early days before social networks on the Internet. People got excited to see a Spanish young software. I was like, software engineer, living in Japan. And that's how it started. When I reflect about it, it's all about. In myself, it's about curiosity. I'm always driven to learn things, and Japan is the perfect place to keep learning things. I tell people that I've been here in Tokyo for almost two decades and I still don't know Tokyo. If you ask me, it's a huge city and I'm still exploring and learning from Japanese people.

I think it's a sign of maturity and intelligence that you know what you don't know, because there are a lot of people who don't know what they don't know and they think they know everything, which is a deadly combination. I will also tell you a little bit more fanboying here, that the book that has been most influential for me personally is a book called if youf Want to Write by Brenda Uland. And it is essentially kind of an empowering book about creativity and expression that you shouldn't think you need a degree in English or you need permission or training. If you want to write, write. And that truly liberated me as a writer when I first started in 1987 or so. And then fast forward to about two months ago, and I read Ikigai and I told my wife, you know, this book is. Is as personally influential as if you want to write. I just loved that book, Ikigai. I mean, it really, really spoke to me. I'm at the tail end of my career, maybe the tail end of my life. And I truly do believe that podcasting is my Ikigai. And so it just came at the time that just helped me put all that together. So I love this book.

I thank you. That's. Thank you. That's very nice to hear. I had also the same. Some people call it the imposter syndrome, because I was a software engineer and I started writing and then I published my first book, was called A Geek in Japan. And I felt like probably when you published your first book, I felt like, okay, I'm not supposed to be doing because. Because I'm not a writer, I'm a software engineer. And over time, finally I have the confidence to say, okay, I'm a writer, but it took me a while. And yes, so that's this mindset shift that you need to make. And that's a little bit the message of Ikigai is that you don't have to be constrained. Sometimes in our minds we're being defined. But what other people tell you what you are good at or what you are bad at. But maybe you have to discover it by yourself or create like, start exploring by yourself what you're really good at.

Many people who have not read the book or not familiar with the concept are probably wondering what the hell we're talking about. So maybe you can define ikigai for us.

Yes. Ikigai is a Japanese word that is composed by two characters. The first one, it means literally life for anything that it can be a human, a plant or an animal, something that it's alive. And the second character is something that is worthwhile. So if you put it together, you could translate it as the meaning of life or your purpose in life. I also like to say is that thing that makes you jump from bed in the morning and makes you feel like, oh, today is going to be an amazing day. And I know that sometimes you wake up in the morning and you don't feel like that. I think that that's okay if it's one, two days, but if that's happening to you for many days in a row, you might have to start thinking a little bit deeper about your ikigai. Or you have to make some changes in your life to start doing more things that you are connected with your purpose in life. So it sounds simple, but when you go deep into it, I like it. Also, because there is not a word in other language that compresses. In Spanish, you need several words to say the meaning of life. In English too, you need something, you need a sentence. But in Japanese, you can just say ikigai. So I can tell you guy like, what's your ikigai? It's very simple. Or you can ask your kids, what's your ikigai? It's a much more simple way to start asking yourself or other people about what's your true meaning in your life or what you should be doing.

Wait, so are you telling me that in Japan you can be at an event and you can literally start a conversation by saying, what's your ikigai? And people will not think you're nuts and they will know what you're talking about.

Yes, you could do that. But maybe if you know Japanese people, they are very reserved. So if you ask that question directly, it will be very. Oh, wow. It's like this is going to get deep. Maybe after a couple of drinks. Yes, I think it's a very good. That would go. You will make friends if you ask.

That question and okay, so maybe Japanese people are reserved, and it might take them by surprise, but they would know exactly what you're asking.

Yes. And that's the question we went. In order to write the book, we went to the village of the longest living people in the world, in Okinawa. And that's exactly. We interviewed more than 100 elders, and that was the first question we asked them. I had 10 questions, and the first one was, what is your ikigai? Wow. And it was impressive. I tried the same experiment in Tokyo, and people didn't answer immediately. It took them time. And I think also if I ask my friends, it's like, okay, I don't know, maybe this, maybe that. But the people in this village of the eldest people in the world, they answered almost immediately, like, with a smile, interfaces. My ikigai is my family or taking care of my garden, or I love poetry. There are many, many different answers. But the striking thing was that the answer was immediate. That's one of the things that I think it resonates with people.

I will tell you that if someone came up to me and asked me, what's my ikigai, or whatever English phrase they want to use, I would immediately say podcasting. I wouldn't have to think about that.

Yes. Okay. But if I asked you, then you're good. Then you don't need to read my book. Then maybe you already knew. But maybe if I asked you 20 years ago, maybe this is an interesting thing people say. I also say that your ikigai can change through your faces in life. And I think it's important to. If I asked you 20 years ago, probably your answer could have been different. And Maybe in your 20s, probably, I don't know, but maybe you might have been a little bit lost. You didn't know you were exploring, and I think that's good. The important thing is to recognize when you are changing. If you're in your 40s and you keep living, like in your 20s, maybe you're feeling depressed or you are not aligned. So that's where I think the bookie guy can help you. Like, okay, I need to change and shift my life to. That's when we feel a little bit of pain or insight, like we are not aligned with, so recognizing those changes. So now you are in your podcasting ikigai era. So that's very good.

This is my last ikigai. I'm pretty sure.

You never know. You never know.

That's true. So do you think that there are more people who are looking for their ikigai or have found their ikigai in Japan than in other cultures? Or is it maybe we just notice it more? Or you're more attuned, or are the Japanese people, like, special that way?

Not really. The book that we explain a little bit, the dichotomy the book focuses in the title, we say the Japanese in general, but we focus a lot on how the Okinawan people live in the countryside. So it's a. More at the end, the conclusion of the book is to make people think. Also how the dichotomy between living in cities that we are always like, some probably stressed and rushing and we have schedules and doing more and more and more things and years go by and maybe we don't know what we are doing. And that happens to people in Tokyo. If you're in Tokyo, it's like any other big city in the world, a little bit different, but people might be lost. You ask them about the reikigai, and they don't really know. And that's why we differentiate like countryside lifestyle and city lifestyle. So it's not in general about Japan, but maybe countryside people, elder Japanese, they were more attuned to their ikigai than what is happening now in the city life. So that can also make people reflect about how their grandparents lived in the old times and how you are living now. It's not only a Japanese secret. I think it's a secret that has been with us, but we are losing it. You are also from Hawaii, right? Like your grandparents. Maybe your lifestyle when you were very young, it was very different. Probably when you read the book, it brought you memories of, oh, this is how I used to live, or how my grandparents used to live.

Honestly, no.

No. Then I have to go.

I haven't visited as an overachieving Asian American.

Okay, then I have to go. I have to learn more about how I. I've never been there. I have. I want to go.

Me too. I have to say, and it's not like I did an extensive research project on this, but I don't know any other culture or country that has such a thing. Like the Japanese national treasures. Right. Where there's the guy who makes swords and the doll maker and the sword maker and the pottery and the skillet maker and their national treasures. What other culture has national treasures like that?

Yeah, so that's true. So that's another way of looking at. Probably the thing that is common to all Japanese, not only the elders, is that they focus. I'm also not an expert on. I don't want to generalize about the U.S. culture, but it seems to me that you are very goal driven. So it's always about achieving this goal and improving more and more. Like going to is goal driven, while the Japanese culture is more process driven. And if you put it to personal level, it comes all from this religion called Shintoism, which is not about there is a God that is looking at you, but there are many, many spirits and there are many rituals. We use also the words like routines. Rituals and routines are more important than having goals because the goals are okay to have them, but if you are fixated to them, you might forget about doing the right things in a daily manner. And that's how the artist Japan, if you look at Japanese artists or like craftsmen, they are very, as you were saying, they're very, very focused on improving the process over. And everyone knows this documentary Jido of Sushi Dreams of Sushi. That is a Japanese chef master that has been is the best sushi in Tokyo. And he has been making sushi for I don't know, 60, 70 years. And he's still thinking that he hasn't achieved to make the best sushi. He's still improving. So there is an incredible focus on how to do things. And there are many national treasures that are human national treasures. So there are people who can make katanas because their family has been making katanas since thousand years ago. And that knowledge, it's written in books, but it's a lot about teaching. There are many things that cannot be transferred through books or words. It's human to human. And that goes also into the culturing companies like for example Toyota or how cars are made. In the 60s and 70s, like the Japanese car companies were not the best in the world. The US was number one making cars and Toyota focused on improving the processes. How you make the car was more important than what the goal was. And they kept doing that very slowly for decades until Toyota became number one car company in the world. I think now is Tesla. So you're catching up again. But you can start philosophizing about how this goal driven versus rituals or process driven, it makes things very different at personal level. You also see people, when you know Japanese people, they are not very goal driven. They are more about the daily lives. And I think that makes them at the end more happy because they are not trying to achieve something like, oh, I want to be this ten years from now. It's like I'm okay now with what I'm doing.

But wouldn't you say that the sword maker has a goal of making the perfect sword.

Yes, yes, that's a goal. I like these kinds of questions, but the mindset is different. The goal is there to aim for that. But the master knows that it's impossible to make the perfect katana at the very conscious level. As you were saying with wabi sabi or the imperfection, they are okay with imperfection, but they are always aiming to make a better. It's always the improving. That's also in Japanese car companies and manufacturing. It's like always, let's make this. It's called kaizen. Always the improvement cycle. So you have a goal, but that's not the focus. The focus is on the daily. If you just have a goal and try to shortcut. In Spain, I can teach you a little bit about Spanish culture. You have a goal and maybe you will try to find all the cheats to aim to get the goal and then, okay, I'm done. We are very lazy in Spain. Maybe we try to get the goal and then go relax in the beach. So I think that that's also good sometimes if you want to relax. But if you want to aim for self realization, I think it's better to focus on the processes.

I have a very good friend and his in laws, they pay, I think, obsessive attention to the details of making hoshi gaki. So they take that persimmon and they rub it the right way to break down the pulp to get the sugar out. And I'm just amazed at the attention they pay to something as simple as making persimmons.

Yes, sometimes I'm becoming a little bit Japanese too. Another thing is being patient. Sometimes you see that, as you say in cooking or like how they take care of when they are growing vegetables, they are very patient. This is how you have to do it. And from your eyes it might feel like, okay, this is useless. Why do you need to do this if you just need to put the salt on top of the food? But the Japanese, they will say, no, you first have to put the salt in this place. Because then, I don't know, there are all these con like things that if you start asking, there is a hidden reason there that at first sight you might think, okay, this is. Why don't you just make the juice or something like that. Yeah. And I'm appreciating more that as I get older and I'm more patient, I appreciate more. There is also a beauty in this ritual that it makes you feel more connected with what you're doing for Example, in the first time I went to a tea ceremony to drink green tea, I was 23 years old. I was very impatient and okay, I'm going to drink green tea. And the ceremony takes like forever. You have to sit down in a tatami mat. You have to look how they put pour the green tea, how they fold napkins and do all these steps. And then I drink. The green tea comes to me and it's almost nothing. And I drink it in one second. It tasted horrible. I didn't like it. And after that I was what was the point of all this? Now I feel ashamed. If I had the time machine, I would slap me. You're a stupid actor. You should appreciate all their cultures. And now, 20 years forward, I love green tea. And I make myself green tea at home following the same ritual. Even if it takes me five minutes, I do it following the Japanese, using the whisk, folding the napkin. It helps me ground start the day in a different mood and drink the green tea in a more mindful way. And it has totally changed how I see the purpose of the tea ceremony is not the green tea, but is enjoying time with other people. Because you are usually taking the green tea with other people in the same room and being present in that moment. So again, the main thing is not the goal which is drinking the green tea, but is the whole ceremony and things. And probably with the persimmons that you were telling me is the same. The goal is not to eat the persimmon, but it's the whole thing that goes around it.

Here's a kind of a conceptual question. Do you find your ikigai or does your ikigai find you?

We keep it open in the book because I realized everyone has a personal view. And depending on who you are and the culture you've brought, you've been brought personally. My view is that you have to almost create it by looking forward to it. You have to create it. That's my personal view. It's not something that suddenly you will find while you are sitting in your couch at home. It's like, oh, manikigai, is this. So I personally think that you have to create it. And maybe you think you have to find it and that's also okay. If you are a very extroverted person person and you have to move around a lot and meet a lot of people and get exposed to many things. If to find your ikigai and other people, you might think that is going to find you. And that's also okay as long as you move around as long as you're trying to find it, I'm okay with how you see it. For example, the ikigai book. It has been the top selling book in India for three years now, which I still, I don't know why I am. I'm still amazed that our book is the top selling book in India. And when you ask Indian people, they think the Ikigai they will come to them but they have to keep searching for it. So it's a combination. And when I ask people in Spain is totally different. It's like I have to find it. And when I ask to engineers and people like a type personality people is more like I want to create it. So I would say any answer is good as long the main thing is that you have to have the willingness to to look for it or to make changes in your life to go for it.

And what do you think of the. I think typical American perspective that you should pursue your passion as if one day you're going to be knocked off your feet when your passion just arrives. Do you think that's realistic? Do you think that's how it happens? It's love at first sight? Or is it an itch that you scratch and it grows and grows?

I think it's more like a niche and then it keeps growing and growing. That's my personal experience. And I think it's also true. When I looked at research, this is true for most people. I think there is some lucky people that maybe you're five years old, you start playing piano and then you become a piano professional player and then you are in your 80s and you keep playing piano. And we all admire those kind of people. And I think that's where in the US you also have this attitude of admiring those kind of people. But we have to realize that those people are outliers. Maybe they are lucky or it's a blessing. And also if you talk with these kind of people, maybe they don't think it's a blessing. It's like, okay, they this is what I had to do. But for the rest of people, most of the research says that between your 20s and 60s there are many changes in your career when you enjoy what you start doing. Maybe you start as a teacher, but you end up being something else. Only in certain professors, like if you're a doctor, that you have to be very committed or you're a firefighter, things like that. I also appreciate these kind of people because they're needed for society. But for 80, 90% of the people out there, I Think is more what you're saying. You're scratching something and maybe you find something that you enjoy more and then you change. Always. My advice, if you're working 80, 90% of the people probably you are working in who are listening, you are working in a company, in a corporation, and maybe you are not 100% happy where you are now, you can always start exploring of your daily time. What are you enjoying the most? If you are enjoying the most being in meetings with people, probably you are an extroverted person and you should try to be more into those situations. Maybe ask, okay, I want to be in sales or, or I want to be a public speaker presenting products. Or if you don't like being in meetings, for example, like me, maybe you, okay, I want to be more like doing this. I want to be more like a software engineer or something like that. So you can always find ways to keep scratching and doing small shifts until you feel more connected with your ikigai. And yeah, the word passion, there's so many. That's why I prefer the word ikigai, because the word passion, many people think different things about what passion is.

I also think that particularly young people, they're always hearing this advice about pursuing your passion. And then now they're 22 years old and they haven't found their passion yet, and they think I'm a loser. I'm 22 and I haven't found my life calling yet. And I can't even remember what I was interested in at 22. So I think passion is overrated, actually.

Yes, I totally agree. You don't know and no one knows.

So a real tactical question is, what if your ikigai cannot pay the bills?

Yes. So that's why we put. We call it the four circles of ikigai. Four elements that you need to start thinking this is an exercise you can do at home. After listening to the podcast, you can write down things that you love doing. It can be anything. I love eating chocolate with my friends, watching the sunset. And then things that you love doing, it can be like for you, it could be podcasting. And then things that you can make money with at the moment, and then things that will help the world. But it's not only about the world, but maybe it can be something very simple. Things that will help your friends or your family or your co workers. And I also like to add, for example, in the money part, there are things that maybe you can make money at the moment, but there are things that you have a gut feeling you're inside you that you might be able to make money with, but you've never had the guts to try. And these days I think is the easiest that you can try on the Internet to test and see if maybe, for example, now it comes to mind, podcasting. Maybe making money with podcasting is not easy, but maybe it's something that you could aim for. You could try, start podcasting and see if you can make that not directly from podcasting, but from advertising. Maybe you can make money and it can be if you're a musician, maybe you can act in a local place in your neighborhood and start making small money and then that will give you a boost of self esteem. Okay, I can. There is a possibility here. So I always tell people to explore those possibilities that might be there, but you've never tried. So that's why money, what you love doing, what you're good at doing, and what can help other people. If you combine those four things, you will start having an image of, oh, this is really my icky guy. With the podcast, you are also helping people around the world who are listening. They might be inspired after listening to this conversation to start looking for the ikigai.

Well, Hector, to be completely honest, I love podcasting. I'm good at podcasting. I am convinced it is helping people learn how to be remarkable. But for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to make money. So now I would make the case that if you still are willing to do something that you love, that you're good at, that's good for the world, but not lucrative, it truly may be the test of your ikigai, because you're not doing it for the money at all. In fact, it's costing you money. So that's the true test of ikigai.

That's good. I like that one. So, yeah, you can also take that perspective, the reverse. But that's a question that usually comes from people when that's a different phase. So we keep the circle of money. But if you're in a stage in life that you need to make money, maybe you can take that as a second. But if you've already made enough money, maybe that circle, it should be the reverse. How can you give back that money? Or how can you do something that is not about making money but about using money as you're saying?

All I can say is thank God for canva. Because of Canva, I can do anything I want anyway.

Yes, Canva. I use the template in canva that you have for the circles. So yeah, it was very easy for me, not for the book one. Because the book I think it was after that, to make a presentation I had to do, I used canva to make the four circles of ikigai. So yeah, you help with canva to make the ikigai circles.

Ah, that's great. That's great. You touched on this briefly, but what is the relationship you found between finding one's ikigai and living long?

That's not a discovery of myself. But there are many research recently in Japan and also in the UK where they looked at people when they. Especially in the uk, because in Europe we have this culture of retiring when we are 60. These studies show that the probability of dying or having a cancer or a life threatening illness after you retire, it goes up incredibly when you are between 60 and 65. And I think that's incredible. You are aiming all your life to. In Spain we're always thinking, okay, I will work until 60 and then I will retire and do nothing. And then when I came to Japan, I said, why do people keep doing things in their 70s? There are doctors and taxi drivers here who are in their 70s with why do they keep doing things and working? The Japanese people, they should be retired. And now I have changed my perspective. It's good to not at the same rhythm as when you are 30, but it's good to keep doing things even in your 60s, 70s, and keep having an active lifestyle. If it's being active with your ikigai, probably in your 70s, 80s, it can be your family that can be your ikigai perfectly. But the point is that you don't stop and start doing nothing because it seems at a biological level our body can feel like, okay, now I don't have anything to do, it has no meaning. My life has no meaning anymore. And the mind, body connection, there's still research on this. So if listeners want to research on this is not clear, but there is a connection. If you start having a sense of meaning of life or you have nothing to do, then we are ill and people die. So that's why the message is so powerful, I think like having a ikigai keeping active, connected with your family and friends, it will basically prevent you from being ill. And if you keep that for long enough, you might become a centenarian. So you have to keep podcasting now for 35 more years. Okay, I gave you work, God help me, 35 years.

This is Guy Kawasaki. This is episode number 1500 or something.

You can think of it as it's your medicine. So you can think of it your ikigai is your medicine that you keep you alive so you can. Okay.

Your book had a great discussion of flow. So would you define flow and explain how to achieve flow?

Flow. It's a concept that. It always fascinated me. The original person who talked and defined flow was Mihaly. And his second name is very long. Is Mihali something very long. And he read Ikigai and he sent.

A message, no, nobody can pronounce his name, not even his own family.

And he sent a message saying it was the best summary of flow that he has ever read. So I felt very proud about that chapter because I read everything he had written about flow and I condensed and it in one chapter. And he invited me to go to LA to visit him. But unfortunately he passed away recently last year. And I was always fascinated with this flow concept because of both what we talked about before about the Japanese focus on the processes and rituals. It seems to me that the Japanese spend more time in this flow state, like building things. There are craftsmans while cooking. You are in this flow state is not. Again, I'm going to repeat myself. It's not about eating the food, but it's about the whole process of enjoying that while you are doing it. Flow state is. Everyone has experienced this. When you are doing something that you enjoy so much and suddenly one, two hours have passed or even five hours and you were like, suddenly, oh wow, five hours passed away and it's time for dinner and you totally forgot or you forgot to eat lunch. Because you were so into that moment. And I believed a good life. You don't have to be like a person who has achieved many big things, but probably a person who has had a good life is the one that has spent the most time in this flow state. Because you are more connected with yourself and the universe and everything. And another analogy is in sports, when you are practicing exercise, you are running. If you become a good runner, that's also an indication that you're liking something or not. Many people ask me, okay, ikigai is very nice, but I don't know what I like or dislike. I think flow is a very good indicator that you are liking something or not. So there's like, I need to exercise in life. Then you start going to the gym and after a while you never get into flow. You hate it. That's okay, you can try something else. You go running for a while and you don't like it. You don't get into the flow state. Every 5 minutes you are looking through your watch and you want to go home, but maybe one day you try surfing and I think I started surfing. So you start surfing and then after a while you realize, oh, wow, I've been surfing for hours and time flew away. Then that's one of the things that you should start focusing on. Probably podcast for me also. I'm enjoying this conversation. I'm losing track of time while talking to you. So you can use flow as an indicator that you're loving something or hating something.

Up next on Remarkable People.

You are going to spend 30 minutes with your kids this afternoon going to the park. That moment is very precious, very important, because it will never happen again. In the same way, the next time you go to the park, your kids will be a little bit older, they will be in a different mood, you will be older, you will be in a different mood, there will be a different weather, everything will change. So it's a reminder to ourselves that every moment is very special and we don't have to keep worrying about the future or the past.

Listeners of the Remarkable People podcast will learn from some of the most successful people in the world. They provide practical tips and inspiring stories that will help you be more remarkable. If you live in the US or Canada, text 831-609-0628 to get notified of each new episode. You're listening to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki. I don't know if I should tell you this secret. Madison helps me with scheduling all my meetings and basically scheduling my life. And speaking of surfing and flow, where I surf, the best time to surf is at low tide. So all my meetings are scheduled around the tide.

Okay.

Now everybody's going to know. So if you're out there and you want to meet with me, check the Santa Cruz tide schedule because I'm only available at high tide. You also mentioned this great concept of micro flow. So yeah, we understand the big picture of flow where you just lose track of time. But what in the world is micro flow?

So you can think of this flow as like, like for hours you're losing track of time. But microflow is more about this small things that maybe it doesn't take a long time, but it's as enjoying is. Being is a little bit about mindfulness. It's being focused on what you're doing on a moment to moment basis. That's a microflow. So you are present, you are not thinking about something else while you are doing what you have in front of you. So you are flowing in that moment. So you're focused in like step by step. If you divide time into step by step. And that's another thing that it comes back to the Japanese obsession with the details. In Japan, they say, I think in English you have the expression the devil is in the details. In Japan is the reverse. You say, God is in the details. So the mindset is totally different. It's like in the details, you will find the beauty. So in the microphone, you will find the beauty of things.

In your book, you discuss Steve Jobs many times.

Yes.

And you detail his love of the Japanese culture, his trips to Kyoto, his love of ceramics and stuff. Do you think Steve Jobs would have been Steve Jobs without the influence of Japanese culture?

Well, this is a question maybe for you too, because before answering the question, I think I learned about you before Steve Jobs. So that's for me, what I read when I arrived to Japan. Instead of reading books about Japan, I read the Art of the Start. So by. By you. And then I bought my first Mac and everything. So you did your job as your previous ikigai was probably evangelist. You did a good job there also. And that's why maybe there is so much of Steve Jobs in the book. But he came to Japan many times. He came to Japan the first time, a little bit before the Macintosh. In Japan, they were manufacturing the first. I think it's three inches, the floppy tees that were three inches and a quarter. If I remember correctly, Steve Jobs flew here to Japan, to a factory here west of Tokyo in Natsugi, when now they have many factories of Sony and Panasonic. And when he came back, I think his mindset of how to use the uniform always, we all know the Steve Jobs uniform for himself. And also in Apple, he had this mindset. This comes from Japan, Japanese mindset of wearing a uniform in the factories and also in companies. So you focus on the craft. And I also know he went many times to Kyoto, and I think it was one after. Before he died. His last family trip was to Kyoto, to the Golden Pavilion in Kyoto. So he, at the end of his life, he chose Japan for his last family trip. And I think in the design of his products, you can see Japanese minimalism, like how there are many. Again, lots of focus in the details to make it more complex, but to make it more simple and hide the complexity. And that's in again, the Japanese katana, or Japanese pottery and ceramics. It looks very simple on the outside, but if you learn how it has been made, it's kind of okay. This has taken more months to make this katana. It has taken one year from the. You have to go to the mountains to take this special, it's called Suka, I forgot the name. You have to take the materials from the mountain and then bring them home and then start working from there. And I think Steve Jobs appreciated that. The whole detail focused orientation on making something beautiful, simple and at the same time having all the complexity like hidden from you. And I think that philosophy is still. What is amazing is even after Steve Jobs death, that philosophy is still there in Apple. That culture of hiding complexity and detail orientation is still there. So probably, I don't know about the Steve Jobs itself, but probably Apple could have been very different, like the whole culture, without this Japanese mindset.

I absolutely agree. And in the middle of the reality distortion field. And I will tell you something with total certainty, which is you can take a random group of people and send them to Kyoto and they're not going to come back. Steve Jobs. So it's not just going to Kyoto. That's the key.

That's the key, yes. But there is something I have reflected. You will not become Steve Jobs, but a trip to Japan will probably change your life in some way. That's something I believe more than going to somewhere else. And I think most, not a hundred, not everyone, but most of the people I know, friends who come to visit me and then they go back, they bring something with them that becomes a life obsession or a new hobby. So I have a friend now who is obsessed with bonsai. It was after he came to Japan, he decided, okay, I'm going to be a bonsai. I'm going to grow bonsai at home. I have a friend who is a collector of Japanese green tea now. And that became after the visit to Japan and that doesn't happen that much. If you travel to a country in Europe, maybe you bring some souvenirs back, but you don't bring something that will change your life forever. So probably Steve Jobs did that, but brought it into Apple and then changed not only his life, but the whole world. Absolutely.

So the next concept is ichigo ichie, which is what?

Ichigo ichie is another Japanese word that I used to be, I'm still very obsessed with because again, it compresses meaning. And we can say in English like every moment is very important or something like that, and we should appreciate every moment of our lives. But I think the deeper meaning is that even the small moments in your life like this, you are going to spend 30 minutes with your kids this afternoon, going to the park. That moment is very precious, very important, because it Will never happen again. In the same way, the next time you go to the park, your kids will be a little bit older. They will be in a different mood, you will be older, you will be in a different mood, There will be a different weather. Everything will change. So it's a reminder to ourselves that every moment is very special and we don't have to keep worrying about the future or the past. The best strategy is to focus on the present. And ichigo ichie. It's a word that is usually put in the green tea ceremony places in a scroll to remind you. Because we are all humans, we always forget. Even if you say, oh, ichigo ichie, maybe you would remember today, but tomorrow is like, okay, I drink my coffee, I have to do this, that. And then you forget about enjoying your moments. So one idea that you can have it at your home. You can have your own small place that you can sit down with someone. It can be your kids or your partner and have a routine. Like it can be weekly or daily. Like, let's sit down, have a cup of tea and talk this 15 minutes and be totally present, of course. No smartphones, no nothing. Just be there with that person. Now we are having an itchy Go Ichi moment, you and me here. Maybe if we do another podcast when you are 100 years old, and I hope it doesn't take that long to do another podcast, it will be different. Like you will already know. Yes, you will know my personality. I know more your personality. So it will be maybe more relaxed. I don't know. It will be a different mood. So we have to appreciate this podcast. This Ichigo Ichi moment that we are having. I love it.

Is Ichigo Ichi about creating special moments or finding what's special in any moment.

Very interesting question. I think both. But it is more what you say, like finding in any moment. You should strive to any moment. Especially I like it especially when. When you are with. There is also a meaning in ichigoid when. When you're meeting with other people. So you don't have to aim to prepare a special situation. It's like in everyday life, this time that you are spending with this person or that person, are you truly present. You go have coffee with your friends and then you realize after two hours that 20 minutes you were on your phone and another 20 minutes you were stressed because of a message that you were thinking and you go home and you forgot what you were talking about with your friends and you forgot. This happens to me. This happens to everyone. So it is more of like getting from those encounters with other. When you are with other people, being really there. And then these days, the smartphone is like the evil thing that is there to interrupt us. So these days you can. There are more and more ways to stop notifications and everything. So when you are with someone, be fully present. So have some kind of setup or mindset that when you are with other people. And I'm also a big believer that the way you set up the environment around you at your home, I have different areas. So I have a place that is for writing, and my place for writing is for myself. There is no Internet. I just sit down. And the place that is for podcasting, like here now I'm connected to the Internet. It's a different mood. And the place where I have dinner with my wife, we sit down. The smartphones are far away. So we are with each other. So you can try to make small changes in your environment to be more fully present in those moments. So there is both things, I think are true.

I want to make sure people don't misinterpret this concept into being something that's sort of constant, hedonistic. Live for the moment, because tomorrow we may die. Optimizing for every moment, not sacrificing and planning. Because you could take it that way, right? Like, you know, live every moment to the maximum. Which is not what you're saying.

That's exactly. That's a very good explanation. And that's why we. We had to kind of write a book about it to explain. That's not the mindset. That is the same thing as before with the goals and the process. This saying also a carpe diem, like, you have to leave at your. That's not the message exactly as you explain. It's more, okay, how I am doing things now. It's more about being grateful for what you already have now in life, many times we are always obsessed, like, I don't have enough. And then I have to do more and more crazy things and enjoy more life, have more hedonistic. And that might. I think in my experience, that might work for humans. We are very bad with that. There is this hedonistic treadmill and then hedonistic adaptation. You can do that for a while, but there will be a point that your mind will adapt to. To going to the best restaurants in town. And then you will become the grumpy old person who cannot enjoy a Mac hamburger. So you don't want to become that. You can enjoy both. You can enjoy the best restaurant in town, but you can also enjoy a burger with your friends and have a nice time. You should aim to be a person who can enjoy in any situation like the time with other people.

I've truly enjoyed this. We definitely achieved a state of flow in podcasting.

Yes.

And again, both books were very meaningful to me and Ichigai just shined a light on my relationship with podcasting and what I want to accomplish with the rest of my life. It's truly was a very, very moving experience to read that book.

Thank you, that's very nice to hear.

Let's do this again, but sooner than in 32 years because yes, yes, I want to do. Not clear to me I'm going to be podcasting when I'm 100.

Yes, let's do it.

If I'm podcasting in 32 years from now, it'll be from Okinawa.

Okay.

Isn't ikigai a great concept? After I read Hector's book and then interviewed him, the scales were removed from my eyes. I truly understood why I love podcasting so much and how my life has been preparing me for this path. What more could you ask for from a book and an interview? I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. It is my ikigai. Thank you Hector for showing me the light. Thank you also to the Remarkable People team, Peg Fitzpatrick, Jeff C, Shannon Hernandez, Alexis Nishimura, Louise Magana, and the drop in Queen of all of Santa Cruz, Madison Nismer. Until next time, I hope you find your ikigai. Mahalo and aloha. Thank you to all our regular podcast listeners. It's our pleasure and honor to make the show for you. If you find our show valuable, please do us a favor and subscribe, rate and review it. Even better, forward it to a friend. A big mahalo to you for doing this. This is remarkable people.