Kindsight | Robert Zuckerman | Talks at Google

So welcome again to another wonderful authors at Google talk here in New York. I'm really excited to have Robert Zuckerman in with us today. Let me just read a few bits of things, things that people you probably recognize have said about Robert. So Will Smith calls him Picasso. Jerry Bruckheimer, Denzel Washington, Michael Bay vie to have him on their film sets. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the old governator. Introduce him to President Bill Clinton by saying, this is Robert Zuckerman, the best photographer I've ever worked with.

You have to say, this is Robert Zuckerman.

This is Robert Zuckerman, the best photographer I've ever worked with. Get to the chapel. Okay, so anyway, he's worked in. As you can tell, he's worked in the motion picture industry. He's worked on films like the Crow. I know what you did last summer, Any given Sunday, Training Day, Pulmonary to Three Bad Boys, Two National Treasure, and the list goes on. And he's also done television work as well. The book that Robert is talking about today that hopefully a lot of you were able to get is Kindsite. And it's basically a collection of photographs that a company texts that Robert really talks about the richness of everyday life. You know, the complexity, but also the simplicity. It ranges from taxi drivers and bus drivers to waitresses, plumbers, kids at the playground, and also some people in Robert's family. So without further ado, I'll let him get into the book a little better than I can. So please put your hands together for Robert Zuckerman here at Google New York.

Thank you.

Thanks, everybody. Thanks for the good weather dude, too. I just thought I'd just start off by. I know that some of you have come from very far, like even maybe the next floor down to get here, but as far as the Terminator thing, I just thought I would just to really show you that I actually did work on that. Hold on one sec. I'll just cue this picture up here. This was on the set of Terminator 3. One day, Arnold's assistant, a guy named Dieter, who is also a German bodybuilder, fancy that. Said, Robert, there's no pictures of you and Arnold. And he grabbed my camera and made me stand in there, and I was trying to puff my arm out, and I realized that it wasn't doing any good. But I really felt there's something wrong with this photo. So I just decided that, Anyway, that's the actual photo. The other is a doctored one. Anyway, okay, thanks, everybody for being here. And kind sight is really a labor of love. And the title is pretty self explanatory. Kind sight. Seeing the world with kind eyes. With kind vision. And there's been a lot of writings and talk for eons about how you see the world is what it becomes if you see the world with kind eyes. The glass being half empty or half full. It's a matter of choice. And I just. I've been in the motion picture still photographer for going on 20 years and worked on a lot of big violent action films. And I've always sort of had a personal issue with, you know, all the violence that's in the media. And then, especially after 911 happened, I just. I felt that I wanted to say something that it wasn't really all about terror and about negativity. And for years when I've been on the movie sets, I've always been fascinated by what's. By turning around from the movie set and seeing what's going on around it. There's the people in the neighborhoods, the humanity. And so I was on a film project up in Las Vegas in 2002 and.

I became friendly with one of.

The extras who was this old gambler and his wife. And I ended up writing a story about them putting an image and text together. And I sent it around in email and I got a very positive response. And I just felt that there was richness in everyday life to be had to be recognized. So I started sending these emails around. The first one was Renee and Joseph White, which is. If you have the book, it's page 18. The book is in chronological order.

And.

It'S just a picture of them with a little story. And I began doing these stories, you know, few and far between. But then they started going out and I got such a tremendous response that I would then occasionally email around to all my friends some movie poster that I did, and people would. A couple of people responded, well, we like the movie poster, but we like the stories much better. And it echoed something that I had heard many years ago. In the early 90s. I had also been a volunteer at an AIDS hospice out in Van Nuys, California. And there was a big. I became part of a big citywide exhibition of art by and about people with hiv. And there was another artist who participated in the show who was HIV positive and albino. And in her artist statement she said, the more personal my expression, the more universal its meaning. And this really was like a bellwether. It really hit home to me in terms of my own work as an artist. It's what I wanted to show. And you Know, as someone who went to a lot of movies, I always tuned in more to the more personal films like Mike Lee's Life is Sweet or films that really came from the heart. I found it to be much more resonant. Also in the mid-90s, my mom, who I have two disabled sisters, and my mom, single mom, was taking care of them, and she got into over her head with credit cards as a very kind of typical American scenario people do. And she. She was considering filing for bankruptcy, and I decided I would. Before doing that, I tried to go around and talk to some of the creditors and make deals with them. You can talk to some of these credit companies and you can negotiate 50 cents on the dollar to pay off the debt and resolve it. But a lot of these creditors, I'm sure if anyone who's dealt with the creditors, they're pretty nasty. They're not very nice people. I was one day talking to one creditor, trying to arrange a deal, and she started out very nasty. And then I started to tell her about my mom and how she's a caregiver for my sister in a wheelchair who's got an unknown degenerative condition. And she goes, oh, my God. My dad has Ms. And he's in a wheelchair. And then we ended up talking for, like, 45 minutes about, you know, about our families, respectively. And it just went to that personal level, and it kind of broke through. And I really found that if you talk to people on a. On a human level and just acknowledge them, then it just, you know, that's. It's a great thing, really. And to me, that's. It became to me something that I thought, well, life, you know, there's richness in everyday life. So that's how this started. And then I would just be going along like, the next story, the one on page 20, is this guy, Willie Harris, William Harris. I was just coming out of an art store called Aaron Brothers in Los Angeles one day, and he was standing out there, you know, collecting money. And I stopped and talked to him, and he was, of course, a little bit liquored up, but he knew basically everything there was to know about horse racing. And he started to tell me about all these famous horse races. Seattle Slew and, you know, from. And I happened to have a still camera. I had a little video camera, and I made a video of him. And I gave him a few dollars and made this photo. And then I did a little excerpt from his. From his, you know, his dialogue with me. And that started. And it just, you know, just Kept going on and on.

Then I think it was, what, in.

About the fall of 2004, I had known James. James is, by the way, is the publisher of this book, James Crump. And James had a company in Santa Fe, New Mexico, called. Called Arena Editions, which is a really very highly acclaimed coffee table book, beautiful art book company, produced many books by Peter Beard and what's the guy's name? David lachapelle and a whole host of others. I'm going to introduce James in a minute. But James and I, I don't know how we met, but we had met years before and had just kind of been in touch, and then I had lost touch with James. I think he went underground for a couple of years. And I. And surfaced in New York in the summer, late summer of 2004. And I had a bunch of these before this book even was a book like this, and I hadn't even thought of the title.

I just had a bunch of these.

Pieces in a binder, and they kind of all looked in the email format, like, hold on, sorry. Like, you see them here, which is, you know, there'd be a picture and then the text beneath it, and I'd send it around like that. So I had a bunch of these in a binder, and I brought them in and showed them to James, and he really connected with it.

I had sent.

I had shopped it around to maybe a dozen other publishers, and, you know, it's like, if it doesn't fit into the format that you like, or it isn't some big, slick celebrity book with people jumping in the pools naked or something, you know, they weren't really interested in it. But I think the whole thing about personal expression. I happened to catch James at the right time in his life, and we were able to put this book together. And even though it was a rather small number of publications, it made a great impression on people. I got a lot of great feedback. It went on, you know, went into Barnes and Noble, and I was, you know, I kind of hustled around and did a lot of book signings, got on some local TV and radio and Columbia University. And I've just found that it's been a great experience because it's become not just a book, but it's a real lifestyle. And most of the people that I've met in this book through just random encounters have become friends of mine. And I've, you know, stayed friends with these people for three or four years now, even though it might not be all the time.

Like some.

Some people like this. This guy. Okay, well, this is. I'm going to read this one story here because this is a really good story, even though it's not maybe the most dynamic of the photos. This guy's name is Frank.

And if you have turn in your.

Prayer books here to page. 132.

I'm just going to read this if that's okay, Frank.

Los Angeles, September 2004.

I'd wanted to upgrade my laptop's RAM from the 512 it came with, which was. That was a going thing back then to 1 gigabyte. I saw this computer repair place in.

The mini mall and went in.

Frank looked up my model number. No problem, my friend. We'll order another 512 and bring you up to one gig in two days. He called to say the memory was in. I brought my laptop. He took in back and came out five minutes later. Here you go. He turned on my computer to show me, but instead of one gig, it was. It said 768 megabytes. What happened? I asked. Your 512 was made up of two 256s and so this was the most it goes. I paid and left, but then felt, hey, wait a minute. So I went back. What do you want me to do? He asked. If I take out the new Ram, there's a 20% restock fee. But you looked up my computer beforehand. You should have told me first, I said. We went back and forth. It escalated. That's not how I do business, I said. Take me to court, he yelled. We stood there yelling at each other. I took my computer and left feeling bad. That night I called a store and left a message. I don't like the way you dealt with me. You didn't take the high road. But I also don't like that I yelled at you.

I'm sorry for that.

I think you are a good man who is having a bad day. Please accept my apology. The next day, I got a message.

From Frank, almost in tears.

You should not apologize to me.

I should be apologizing to you.

You are right. I did not take the high road. From now on, when you come into my store, you will be more than a customer.

You will be my friend.

And you will get $50 off anything you do here. I went in yesterday to say hello.

This was a few months later.

I saved your message.

He said, I learned such a lesson from this. I wish I had learned this 20 years ago. So this was in 2004. To this day, he says he still has the message saved on his thing and he plays it for his kids and they laugh at him. But he's like a changed man. And it was just because of that one good experience. We're friends. He comes to my gallery openings in Los Angeles and I do stop in his store and we hang out and talk. So that's one thing about kind sight. It's just that I had the option then of normal situation where I could be pissed off at this guy and never go back there. But I decided to kind of let go. Which reminds me of another quote from Lao Tzu. Does anyone here know Lao Tzu? Chinese philosopher, old, I don't know bc Many years bc. And I don't know the Chinese. You guys probably know the Chinese, but I know the English, which he says in the pursuit of knowledge, every day something is added in following the Tao, which is the Tao, which is considered the way, the flow of life. In following the Tao, every day something is let go. So I think this was a situation of adding something and also letting go.

Another favorite is EJ, page 92.

Let me find EJ here for you guys. There you go. Ej. Ej. Okay, I'm a middle aged guy, so I have some, you know, I had to go in for a urology exam. So this was E.J. los Angeles, June of 2004.

Guys, if you ever want to quickly get past any hang ups you may have about your genitalia, I strongly recommend.

Going for a urological exam.

I'd had a colonoscopy a couple of years back, but for that they put you to sleep, you wake up and it's done. Here I walk into a room and I'm told, take everything off and put this gown on.

I'll be back in a few minutes.

EJ comes back in and instructs me.

As to positioning on the table and stirrups.

Okay, we're going to insert a tube in your penis and another one in your rectum. You may feel a little pressure and discomfort at first.

Hello.

I go through a momentary mental debate as to whether I prefer this very pleasant looking female nurse technician or some dude in scrubs named Bruno. But I don't have time to play out this scenario as EJ and her associates get to work. While casual and friendly, it is entirely non sexual and very professional. I don't have to think about baseball or grandma or anything like that. In truth, years of caregiving for my now quadriplegic sister Patty have given me a better perspective of the human body. This is something shared by legions of medical professionals, healers and caregivers around the world, including parents with infants and children.

With elderly, infirm parents.

When you are caring for someone, a body part is a body part and not something evil or shameful. My sister, my friends and relatives in hospitals helped me to learn this. So did ej. But I can say now I'm glad.

It was her and not Bruno. Anyway.

But that's, you know, it's also about.

Just kind of getting past all these.

Hang ups and things.

Let me see if I have any other good ones. Okay. Another one that I like was an early one.

There's a guy named Larry Avent, which is page 28.

I'll. Here we go. This was during. When I was in Washington D.C. in the fall of 2003. I was working on a movie called National Treasure. And I was out walking one night. So this is Washington D.C. october 2003.

Walking up M Street on this chilly autumn night.

I smell Larry's liquor breath half a block away.

Hey man, you got a cell phone I can use? I need to call my sister.

Go get some warm clothes.

It's getting cold out here. I dial a number for him. They talk. He puts me on to say hello. After we walk together, he tries to set me up with his sister. She's light skinned, you know. I ask him how we got to the streets. I had a job. I was a steward for seven years at the Capitol Hill High. But they only gave 25 cent raise each year. A man has his pride. He tells me other things about his GED diploma, about having cataracts at age 5. Then it's time to go. He looks me in the eye. Thank you, bro. You helped me out. You know, the Bible says people are the salt of the earth. Know what that means? It's like with food, man. People give the earth flavor. So you know, that was just walking.

Up the street one night. I never saw him again. But you know it just by paying attention and just by stopping and being open.

I have a rich story of life.

And that's what this book has been about. Hold on one second.

I'm trying to find one that's from New York.

No, it's not on the. I don't have it on the screen. How many people have books? Well, I'll read it anyway because it's a pretty cool story. It's on page 124.

And I was just heading down to.

The subway one day. This is Miguel.

New York City, September 10, 2004.

In fact, this was the day that I came to your office and we decided we're going to do the book.

Descending to the southbound a train at 1 75th. I paused to photograph this plant growing through concrete and metal.

Anyway, I'll just show you. Can't really see it, but there's a plant growing through the stairs on the subway. And this guy sitting next to it.

Miguel, also heading down, holds me up to snap, to let me snap as I say what I'm doing. He drops down a few steps and says, hey, why don't you try from down here? I take pictures, too. I try his angle, but ultimately prefer mine. Two strangers. We instantly fall into deep conversation about everything. He tells me about a welfare mother he met and gave food money to. And about someone else he helped out. Also about the necklace he wears in memory of his brother who passed away last Christmas time. About lying on his back in Chicago to get the most dramatic photo of the Sears Tower. About photographing the Twin Towers collapsing from.

His place in Brooklyn.

And how he would never sell the photographs, how, in fact, he wishes he didn't have them. About two out of body experiences. He had one while swimming in Mexico, almost drowning. Man, you're a really spiritual guy. I can tell. I feel like I can talk to you about anything, he says. People ask me my nationality. I tell them, united Nations. My stop is coming up. But there's no end in sight to the conversation. While shaking hands, he says, I'm Taurus, an earth sign.

So I can really relate to your.

Picture of the plant. Whenever I see a plant coming through concrete, I'll always think of you. Me to you, my friend.

Me too, you. We've stayed in touch as well, Miguel. I've talked to him on a couple other book signings. Let me see if there's any other good ones here.

Well, anyway, the book came out in.

Late 2005 and I've been able to go around to schools. I've done workshops with students where I've started programs in schools where the kids actually do the same thing. They kind of emulate this and write stories. And what's good about it is that some of the kids who are shy about writing feel a little better when they can do it with the story. And I always emphasize, you know, you don't need to be grammatically perfect. Just speak your own voice and don't worry so much about the grammar. And they really take to it and the people like it a lot. I'm going to pull up a couple others, more recent ones, because even since the book comes out, I continue to do these and I'd like to make an official announcement here that there's going to be a second book. I've just made a deal with a publisher, so there's going to be kindsight 2 coming out later this year. So unfortunately, James has moved on to become a famous filmmaker now. But he's been my spiritual backer and he's always been there, so he's going to be a big part of the second book as well. But here's a couple of pieces, very recent pieces from New York.

That are pretty cool.

I've gotten a lot of good feedback on this one. A couple of weeks ago I was coming up the subway. I was still working on a film here. I just finished working on a film called Confessions of a Shopaholic, which is a Jerry Bruckheimer production, and it stars Isla Fisher, who's the fiance of Borat in real life and very comedic actress who she's going to be a good film. But I was staying in midtown and I was coming up the subway on a Saturday night. I think it was a Saturday night or some late night, and I ran into this guy Deal. It's not in the book here, so I'm gonna read it to you. Riding up the escalator from the subway late on this Saturday night, I try climbing a few steps and I've got some kind of unknown thing going on, so But I write. But the unknown condition that's weak in my legs makes it tough, so I just ride. Deal holds forth at the top Sing, talking and moving around on one artificial leg and another leg with an abnormally protruding calf, both shot in Timberlands. He has a cigarette in one hand and some crumpled single dollars in the other, which he extends toward me. I smell liquor on his breath as I approach.

Can I help you, baby?

It sounds.

It sounds like it.

He asks. No, thank you, I apply. Can I help you? I ask, handing him a $5 bill from my jacket pocket.

He takes it, looks me in the.

Eye and hugs me.

Thank you, my nigger. I'm homeless and cold. I need all the help I can get. What happened to you?

I ask.

Car accident, but I'm maintaining.

You know, I drink some alcohol to keep my sanity on the streets, but I stay clean and take care of myself so I don't put people off. I can do backwards somersaults, too. Though curious about this, I refrained from asking him for a demo, mindful of his slightly drunken state.

Pointing to my cane and limp, I.

Tell Deal I'm not sure where my walking situation is headed don't worry, baby.

What you put out comes back to you.

You'll be walking straight in a few years. Thank you is all I can say.

Hey, he continues, I got a phone.

In case you ever want to hook me up with some work. I take down Deal's number and we shake grip hands.

He walks back to his spot by.

The escalator and I head back to my hotel amidst people strolling, snatches of conversation sounds, lights and smells of the city night with a powerful feeling in my chest that I cannot name. And I actually tried calling him, but the cell phone number that he gave me, woman answered. And when I asked for his name, she like hung up on me. So I don't know. Yeah, but I'll probably try again. And then this is going to lead me to Carmen. Carmen, would you come up here please? Carmen is in the audience. Everybody, this is Carmen Velasco. Please give a hand and come on, come on over here, Carmen.

I was staying at the Essex House.

Hotel, which is kind of posh and part of the film crew. They put us up there and Carmen was part of the Bell team that helps you bring your bags to and from the car and upstairs and everything. And so we just, you know, normally you go into a hotel and a lot of times you don't really talk to the people that help you out. They bring your bags up to your room, you give them a tip. And I'm going to read this piece about Carmen. Carmen. New York City, April 14, 2008 Carmen is a Bell person at the hotel where I stay while working on my current film job in New York. Early on in my stay, she expresses interest in what I'm doing and tells me she herself is an aspiring filmmaker who is in school and and is working on a documentary project.

I like that there is more than.

Meets the eye for. Usually a person in a brown hotel suit helps you get your bags to or from your room. You give them a tip and that's the end of it.

I see Carmen from time to time.

On my days at the hotel and I invite her to stop by the location set of the filming to observe today.

As Carmen helps me check out with.

My bags, I ask how she is. Fine, thank you, she says. I'm working. I. I'm going to school, working on my film and taking care of my two children. How old are your children? I ask. My son is 19 and my daughter is 14. She replies, well, soon they can take care of you. I say yes, but last November my son was hit by a car. He Was in a coma for two months. Broke both legs and other things. Now he is rehabilitating, but is in a very long process.

What's his name? Mario.

And your daughter? Kelly. I am humbled and awed by the quiet strength of Carmen's character and spirit. So much on her shoulders, yet she is following her dream and all the while doing what she has to do in life. We make this picture on my way out and I think about my mom and other single moms I know of and their profound strength and spirit. As I get in my car, she calls after me. Don't forget to Photoshop me. Oh, girl. So anyway, that's Carmen. So do we have the microphone here for Carmen? Right there.

Thank you.

So what's your film about?

Oh, it's a guy who provides hot meals to a day laborers. So he stays in 73rd street and Roswell Avenue and he goes every night to. With hot meals for them is like, he started with like 30 people, now he has like 60 guys.

Wow.

And that's what he does. So I, I was at the hospital and somebody mentioned that guy. So I had to do a project. So I went to the, to the corner right there and asked him if he speak English or not to see if I can do the. So he says yes. So I did it and it would come out good. So they nominated my, my project for a festival.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, excellent. You were at the hospital, you say, Was that with your son or.

Yeah, that's when I heard about the guy at the hospital.

Yeah. So you, so you have been, you told me you've been working at the hotel. You work full time for like 13 years.

13 years.

And you go to school.

Yes.

And you have your family and you're making films.

Wow.

Wow. All right, keep an eye on that. And I'd like to turn the microphone over for a bit to James Crump, who, as I said, published my book and I owe him a great debt.

Thanks, Robert. Robert obviously has a very infectious energy. It's a very. It's something, it gets around. It's a good vibe. And while I had become aware of his photographs, in Los Angeles, he was shooting a number of movie sets basically. And I was introduced to his work and we almost got close to making a book on, I think the film called Training Day. And I was one of those early recipients of the emails he was sending around. It wasn't the type of work that I had really expected from Robert because I was so, you know, aware of what he was doing in Los Angeles. And in the entertainment area. And I had published over the last 15 years a lot of name brand photographers, sort of well known estates, people like Bruce Weber and Peter Beard and Peter Lindbergh, estates like Walker Evans and Garry Winogrand. And I looked at Robert's work in film really as sort of one of those. He's one of those individuals who took that genre of the film still and turned it into an art form. And so when he started sending me these things from out of the blue that he had been starting to collect these stories, I just was. I was really blown away because I wasn't expecting it. And over the years he kept, you know, it was a couple of years you were sending them around and one time he lent me a large parcel of them. And I started looking at them and I just was really struck by them. I was really, really moved emotionally. And so we started this conversation about doing this work. And while he can deliver the goods, you know, commercially, and he has for years on the sets of major motion pictures, he's done something here which I think is really, really unique. And I think as a producer, as a filmmaker, writer, curator, I think it's the kind of project that deserves a really larger audience. And to date it's received, it deserves the broadest possible audience. It's a very worthy project that sort of hits the right note at the right time. And so that's why I'm here basically to support Robert, because I think that the book holds up in every way. And it's something that, as I say, it's infectious what he's doing and it sending out a different kind of message photographically. And these stories are fantastic and the pictures are wonderful and it worked really well as a book. That's all I have to say.

If there's any questions, what do you think about. Like, I just wanted. Because, you know, some of the feedback I got early on was, you know, like the purists say, well, you can't have writing with photographs. I mean, Dwayne Michaels kind of scratched on his photographs and Allen Ginsberg did. But I kind of. I never really bought into that. I felt that this was something that really worked together well. But I know that there's some people, even some art galleries still don't want to show these images because they feel, oh, it's photos and words together and that's somehow not pure photography or something.

What do I think of it? Yeah, I mean, I think it's challenging work. It's a new commingling of text. It's not the first time, obviously. You mentioned Allen Ginsberg and Dwayne Michaels, very well known photographers who transcended that gap and were able to. To show their work with text, handwritten text, by the way. I think that the more people become aware of Robert's work, the more they get interested in it, the more they're drawn in like I was. Because it wasn't, as I said, the type of work that I expected, nor was it really the type of work that I normally published over the years as an editor or as a curator. And so I was just drawn in from a humanist perspective, from Robert's energy and his sort of spiritual meaning that came across through the photographs and through the stories. And I think that it's just taking time. And Robert's been tenacious with sharing this work all over the place with schools and with groups like this. And I think that the more seasoned eyes spend with the work, probably the greater opportunity that will be realized with this body of work. And it's an ongoing body of work, which I think is interesting too, because it doesn't end with Kind Sight, the first book. It's going to continue going just because he published the book. Unlike many photographers who would move on to another body of work, he keeps tenaciously moving forward through this series, and it keeps getting better, keeps getting richer and more interesting.

Well, I just want to go back because there's basically like a dozen quotes that I have that for me are the equivalent of a master's degree and a PhD. One of the great quotes that I say in my book is it's kind.

Of a combination of two.

Two quotes one by one person. And then the second one is by this guy, Brian Brown Walker, who you guys should check out if you're anyone familiar with the text called the I Ching. Well, he does a version, this guy named Brian Brown Walker, that's the most accessible version. I mean, a lot of them are kind of very esoteric and hard to understand. This one's really great. But he. Someone else, I think it was Lao Tzu or someone else said, you know, if you look for the good in people, you will find it. There's. And when you speak to the good in people, you strengthen it. So that's kind of another core point behind Kind Sight. But one of the things I really like, and I'm glad I'm here at Google, I feel really honored to be here. But one of the initial ideas that I had was somehow to get someone like Google or someone involved, because I'd like there to Be kind sites, S I T E s all over the world where people are just doing this. It's not something that I feel like. I mean, I, I do this and this is kind of my way of putting my good energy into the world. But a lot of people, you can do it through anything you do. And it doesn't necessarily have to be writing and photography. I mean, I got a story today about some guy, and I think he's been around YouTube for a while about this guy in Texas who greets soldiers coming home from the airport. And he has like bunches of people like at the airport hugging and greeting and thanking the soldiers. And it's just, you know, it kind of made my heart well up when I saw it. So you can be a short order cook or a doctor or something as long as you like. You know, you can instill kindness in your everyday life. Holding a door for someone, helping people with a package, letting someone in, in traffic, just listening, you know, just listening to somebody volunteering at a senior center. Anything, it can be, I think it's just about putting positive energy into the world somehow. And so I think with that it's probably time to open the floor up to some questions. So I'll take any questions, comments, jokes, anybody. Okay, thanks.

Goodbye.

I'll kick it off. So when you're out and about and you see someone on the street or you have this interaction or whatever, do you know immediately that. I mean, before you weren't really doing it for the book, but do you know this is something that I want to put into the next book. Do you immediately have that feeling or how do you, how do you go about that?

Yeah, I mean, it does.

I kind of recognize it. You know, someone had once said that about these things that, you know, these stories see something in everything. And it could be that any moment or any encounter, any. And some of these things in here are not just encounters with people. Some of them are just random moments of observation, looking at clouds or, you know, seeing something that evokes a feeling or an observation. So yeah, anything can become a story any moment. And that's the whole idea about the richness of everyday life.

So, yes, I like to sort of take photos while I'm out and about and often see an interesting situation with some people. I'd like to just whip out my camera and take a shot of it. But I have this affliction in that I'm British. And so it's kind of the whole idea of actually sort of going up to people saying hi, you Know, can I take a photo? That kind of thing. It's kind of embarrassing for me. So, I mean, how do you deal with that? Do you just sort of take photos of people randomly and then just go up and say, was that okay? Do you sort of go up to them first? Like, how do you kind of break over that barrier that it's a bit weird to whip out this big camera and start kind of.

Well, more.

It's. It's more the second thing. I don't. I don't. I like to instill respect and keep a good thing in it. So I don't. I don't actually do the photo. I normally have a conversation, and if. And if at the end of the conversation I feel there's a story there, then I'll ask them their permission. And I've come to try and at least be mindful about how I even speak of it, because taking this has been long, even for a long time, there's been issue about the language of photography is very acquisitive and aggressive. Shoot a picture, Take a picture. So I always say, can we make a photo together? Usually. And when I go to the schools, I talk to the kids. I suggest that's how they talk because it's two people collaborating. But if they don't want to, I just let it roll. I don't really force it. So, you know, I never. Like, even when I was coming down here, I was gonna. I was in a taxicab, and I thought I would just show you an example of how even just riding down here, there was. And I had this really interesting conversation with the taxi driver. And as I got out, I. It was raining and cold and windy, and I said I was standing outside, may I make a photo? And he didn't want to, and he kind of sped away. But, you know, what could I. You know, what could I do? But that's, you know, few and far between. But most of the time, I think if you just ask someone and there's always. And to me, like I learned, especially on a movie set, because when I first started out as a film photographer, I wanted to get every setup. And then I realized I don't need every setup. And if I let go of one, something else would come along pretty soon. So that's. I don't know if I can help you, but I think it's just a matter of opening a conversation with somebody and letting them.

That's this type of photography.

There's some other types of photography, like Gary Winogrand and some of the other great street photographers, they don't ask people, but they just kind of grab it. And that's an art, too. And sometimes these little digital cameras, like, what do I have? I always carry this. I used to think I had to have a big camera, but now you can get great photos with these little guys here, and they're a lot less sort of imposing. So that's also, I wanted to say my two basic tools for doing this are a camera and I have a little notebook that I carry around with me. And basically, when I have an encounter like one with Carmen, I'll take a moment to write down the little sort of morsels. I kind of freeze dry the encounter in a few words. And later I'll go home and I'll just add water, like the water of care, basically. And if it comes back alive, you know, when I'm sitting typing out the story. So there's lots of stuff out there, you know, I don't have to get everything, but, you know, I usually basically just ask people.

Okay, thanks.

You're welcome.

Hi. Thanks so much for coming. I thought I had just a comment, but then I thought of a question. So the comment is, I thought the. I wasn't in time for. For the book rush, but I flipped through a neighbor's and I thought the writing was excellent for the portrait of the self portrait, actually, of you in the hospital.

Oh, thank you.

And as for the question, the question is, what was your best experience to date on a movie set?

Well, there's a lot of them.

I.

Think, overall, as a film, I really enjoyed working on Training Day, even though it was a very tough movie. But mostly in Hollywood on a movie set, they're very conscious of the budget, and they only want you to expend frames and take photos of the focus on what's going on on the set. But on Training Day, because they were filming in a lot of the inner city, tougher neighborhoods in Los Angeles, they wanted to develop community relations and they had this idea about documenting it. So they actually encouraged me to. To mix it up with the homies in the different neighborhoods. And so that actually was a lot of fun. I mean, I. It was a little daunting at times, but I went into some of the very sort of tough neighborhoods in South Central and East LA and, you know, got to. Got to really mix it up. And so that was. That was a lot of fun. That was a really good experience. Another one, I didn't actually work on the. On the. There's two different kinds of photography on A movie set one is the day to day photography, which is what I do mostly. It's called. Called a still photographer. But then there's. Sometimes they do special photo sessions just for the poster, and that'll be. Sometimes the set photographer does that, but sometimes they'll bring in an outside photographer to do that. It's just like in more of a studio kind of photo shoot. And I was requested by Will Smith to do that special photography on Pursuit of Happiness. And I felt that was a really great movie to be associated with. And I was really proud. And that was something that was great for me. And also was requested last year by Denzel Washington when he was directing the Great Debaters, which is another one of those, I think, very positive worthy films. And I was working on another film, but I actually was able to get away from that for one week and cover the first week of that movie. So those three, I would say, are something I'm really proud of. And also the crow, even though it was very tragic, it was still. I still felt it was a great honor to have known and worked with Brandon Lee in his lifetime.

And Ozzy.

Yeah. And who.

And Ozzie.

Ozzie.

Ozzie Davis.

Oh, Ozzie Davis. Oh, my gosh, Yes. I worked on a film in 2005 in Miami called Retirement, Very small film that just was now released straight to video. But Ozzie Davis, the venerable Ozzie Davis, who, you know, not only a great actor, but just a great spokesman. And I was. He was in that film. And he passed away in his sleep at the very early part of that movie, sort of like, you know, like maybe a third of the way through. And so I got to work with him and made a photograph of him with his grandson the afternoon before he passed away. And that was kind of very meaningful to his family. His wife, Ruby D. And. And his daughters. So thank you for the reminder. And this is. May I introduce you? This is Malak Shabazz, who is the youngest daughter of Malcolm X and Dr. Betty Shabazz, who I'm sure most of you have heard of them. And Malak is very active in keeping the legacy of her parents alive and also in many issues today. So thank you for being here. Yes, sir.

Hi.

So I keep wanting to lean over this microphone. I realize it's right here. It's like, you know, okay, I'm gonna.

Stay back here just browsing through some of the pictures and associated stories. I just realized that some of the. All of them are really personal and profound in nature. How do you draw that out from People just talking to them. Are you actively interviewing them or is just something that just. Just a listener of some sort?

I think so. Very early on when I got into photography, even before I was doing it professionally, I had been. I got into photography a lot when I was a student at UC Berkeley in California. And I was living in the Bay Area there. And there was a lot of beautiful light and a lot of beautiful buildings. So one of my early, real early fascinations was with the buildings and the graphics and the structures, urban landscapes.

And I had a little exhibition in.

New York in maybe 1978 of some of these photos. And while I was in New York, I was showing them around to some of the larger, more prestigious galleries. And one of the curators looked at the work and he said, well, your work is visually stunning, but it lacks emotional content. And so that was kind of like something that was like a bell going off. And I sort of. At that point I decided I wanted to really be more open to what was happening. And I know some photographers and directors are more dictatorial or want to really control what's going on. I really envisioned myself more as a receiver, as a sponge, and just to receive what was there. And so that's kind of became. My approach is just to be open somehow. And I can't really explain the technique of how I do it, but it's just more of a thought process and an attitude that I have is just to really be open and listen to people. And somehow I think people feel comfortable with that. And so when I have a camera with me, I just kind of try to be open to what's there and to be a receiver. I don't know if that answered the question.

Yeah, so it's okay to add on to your question. Where my father was assassinated. The Audubon, we own it. With Columbia in the city, it's now the Malcolm X Dr. Betty Shabazz Multicultural Educational Cultural Center.

And that's a 165th in Broadway, right?

3940 Broadway. 165th right across. It's the same place right across from Columbia Presbyterian Emergency.

Formerly it's called the Autobot.

That famous picture of my father being escorted in. In any case, it was a long time to get this deal and we own it for. We have a 99 year lease, 96 years left. But getting to develop programs was very difficult. But we are on our way. However, in the beginning, before. Our papers are now at the Schomburg. One of our board members is Robert's aunt, Janet Stoven. I Work at the United Nations. I'm with unifem, Microeconomics for women and children in third world countries. She brought him in, and we really weren't sure how. We were going to try to document a lot of things, take pictures. I mean, it's a very sensitive topic. He came and he made. Excuse me. Made us feel extremely comfortable. To answer your question, it's his energy. And we're six daughters, and we're not easy to get along with, and we did. He was one of the few neutral people that we all felt. I mean, this is what he does. So kind to it. 2, 3, 4. I think everybody should get it. But he documented our papers being my dad's papers at the Schomburg and some different issues with the center. Now that we are. Ultimately, I'm working on a documentary, going to incorporate some of his work, and he's going to be working with us. But it's energy that he just. You can be the most difficult person on the planet. There's six women. There's six of us.

There's three of them right there.

Oh, bad hair day.

I'm sorry about that.

Yeah. That's only three of us. But it was. It's very. It's not been easy being the daughter of those two people. But we are strong women, and he came. Every time he's around us, we smile, you know, so it's really him who really just. Whether it's on the street or in the center or with six daughters of those people. I'll be nice. It's just Robert. So it's about his energy and how he approaches you from the person on the street to somebody in the White House that he can have. You open up and just talk and then you pose. We were frowning before that photo. Ozzie is my surrogate uncle, so to speak, that Auntie Ruby. The whole family loves that. I mean, you can't just. That's his oldest grandson.

That was the afternoon before he passed away.

Yeah. People just open up because of his energy and his honesty. And with Hollywood and everything that's going on, when you finally find someone who's really genuinely honest and makes you feel comfortable and open up, it happens. Trust me, it happened with us. And anyway, 3940 Broadway at 165th Street.

Yeah.

It's actually a very great place. They have a touchscreen kiosk with a historical. You can go up there.

Columbia's Digital Ventures unit. It's a living memorial museum. It's absolutely. Excuse me. Okay. The Malcolm X. Dr. Betty Shabazz. Memorial Education and Cultural Center. But our will be live next week online. But in any case, he was. We had a lot of people who tried and they were a little sketchy. They were out for themselves. He wasn't out for himself. He was out for bringing out the energy and the positivity and the philosophy of both of my parents and making it. And he just did a very good job. That part we're still working on. We're getting our website down, but there were a lot of people who just were out for himself. He wasn't out for anybody but just bringing out what my parents were. He wasn't trying to paraphrase or reinvent what he did is what was he captured exactly? What. Just like in these photos and with Carmen, he captures, you know, he'd just sit down and talk to you. And he just captured what we wanted to be. And all six of us are completely different. He only met three of us, but he captured all of that without conflicting in our personalities. And we all wanted to take him out to lunch afterwards. Trust me. You know, he has three wedding proposals. But anyway.

Yes, I'm back.

What's your name?

Janet. Hi. Nice to meet you. Okay, so this could be a kind.

Side story right here. I could make a photograph and we.

Could have a little story.

Oh, not today. So my first question is, or second rather is, if you weren't doing photography, what would you be doing? And then the second question is. That was third. Just kidding. That was just inspired by that fabulous photo of Ozzie Davis and his oldest grandson, which I love, love, love, love, love, love.

Is.

I was going to ask you, who do you think takes the most honest photograph of you? But now the question has sort of changed into how do you think the most honest photographs are taken? Because I don't recall where I read or heard this, but it was some time ago that I heard the most honest photographs are of taking people's backs because they're not looking at you and trying to manipulate their image, you know, for the camera. But it's when they're really vulnerable and you can catch their essence that way. I don't know if that's why. One of the reasons why I love that last photo so much. But I mean, in your experience, how do you think the most honest photographs are taken of people?

That's a good question. I don't know if I know the answer, but I feel again, it's the intention that one. It's the intention that one goes into it with. And so, you know, it's basically. Sam Wagstaff, who was the subject of James's film, was a great photography collector and curator the last quarter of the 20th century. And he came and spoke when I was a college student. And one of the things he said is that there are no bad subjects, only bad photographers. And again, I think it's a lot has to do with the photographer and person. So all photography, I mean, you know, people say, oh, digital photography is a manipulation, but so is traditional, you know, older photography. Everything's a decision about where you're going to place the person, how you're going to crop it. You know, it's all a manipulation. It's just a different medium and different tool. So I really think it's just the intention, the intention behind it and the mindfulness and. And when I. I do a lot of family portraits, and I also do a lot of. In between, when I'm working, not working on the movie sets, I do a lot of headshots with actors. And I go into the session with the intention of wanting to help them out. You know, say, this is going to be your photograph. I want. I really want it. I'm here for you. It's your time. And I think with that intention behind it, then something comes through from that. So it has a lot to do with the intention. Also, as far as photographs from the back, I mean, this one of Ozzie and his grandson Jihad was, I think, very good. I also had the opportunity back in 1995 to work with Gina Rowlands. Have you ever heard of her? Great, great American actress. And she was someone who could speak very softly and yet had a very powerful presence. I mean, she didn't have to yell, but I remember on the movie set a few times seeing her from behind, and I just had such feeling, just seeing the back of her head. And I don't know what it was, but I have to say that I agree with your point that sometimes you can really feel a lot if you're open to it. And a lot of times we see things or experience things because of preconceived notions about how we have. And another one of my favorite quotes is by. I don't know if I'm getting the pronunciation of his name right, but there's a Vietnamese monk named Thich Nhat Hanh, and he's proliferate, written many, many books. But one of the things he says in a book, he has a book out called Being Peace. And in it he says things. In order for things to reveal themselves to us, we need to be ready to abandon our views about them. And that also has influenced me in my photography because sometimes you set out to look at one thing but then something else will be in the way and that. And that becomes so it's just being open to the moment a lot of times. Anybody else. Anybody have any stories they want to share? Is that it?

Unfortunately, we are out of time. We want to have some time for you to sign the book. So Robert, thank you very much.

Thank you.

I think we've been honored that you're here. Everyone else that came, James, Carmen, thank you. So again, thank you very much.

And.

And we'll be doing the signing right away.

Ok, Can I just say one more.

Yeah, no.

Yes, sign it up.

One more thing, baby. Just about the idea. I know, I know. I don't know if any of you people from the Google community, but I want to keep myself open to any communication from anybody. And if any of you ever have any stories and you want to try this out and send it to me or start a website or just go kind of get these stories out on Google around the world, I'm really open to that and that's something I hope to do. So just say open notebook, camera and come at me with some stories.

If it's all right with you, I'll go ahead and just. Do you want me to send your email out to.

Yeah, absolutely. It's also in the back of the book too.

Great.

So I'll send that out too as a follow up to the talk.

Ok, thanks.

Ok, thanks a lot.

Thank you guys.