Lessons from a Creative Founder

Foreign. Good morning. Excuse me. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, depending on where you are in the world. I am Guy Kawasaki, and. And I am in Santa Cruz, California, and today is a big day in my life because I finally got Twitter space to work, so. Yeah, I know. And it's only ten o' clock in the morning. It's a boring day. So. This week's guest on Remarkable People is the truly remarkable Susie Batiz. She started a company called Poo Pourri, and Poo Pourri, first of all, send a comment if you actually use it, I'd love to hear how many people use it. It is quite successful with those hundreds of millions of dollars. And for those of you who are not familiar with what it does, you put it, okay, I'm not making this up. It's a shitty business. You put it in your toilet and it creates a layer of impenetrable gas over the water. So. So when you go number two, you don't stink up the bathroom, you don't stink up the house, you don't stink up everything. And so, you know, if you listen to typical pitches to venture capitalists, you'd have to say, so if we just got 1% of the people taking the in the world, do you realize how big our market would be? And in this case, that would literally be true. So, yeah, and some interesting factoids about her is that she once sued a 50 billion dollar company for infringement copying Poo Pourri. And you know, that shows some ovaries, I guess you'd say. So that was a true David and Goliath moment. Lots of people told her that Poo Pourri was a bad idea. I mean, no, seriously, if somebody said to you, well, we're going to make this chemical and it's going to have all these various scents, and you people are going to use it by putting it in the toilet prior to pooping so that the smell doesn't spread. I mean, how many of you would have raised your hand and said, yeah, that's going to be a successful business, or, yeah, I'd go to work for that company. Or, yeah, I, I think it's going to change the world. It's going to dent the universe. It's going to be Elon Musk and Steve Jobs and Susie Batiste. But I mean, she has done it. And you'll love the spirit, the, you know, not taking failure. You know, it took a lot of different experiments to make the formula that Poo Pourri actually worked. I don't know if you know this, but for Those of you who use WD40, the reason why it's called WD40 is because it's the 40th attempt. And so the 40th attempt finally did what WD40 does. So I don't know if it's Poo Pourri 40, but it took a lot of experimentation. And of course, if you think about it, she tells a very funny story in the, in the podcast about how she needed people who had to poop. I mean, how do you test something like this? So she, she was constantly after her family to poop and test because that's how you test poopery. And so that was kind of a limited, a limited testing scheme. She started poo pourri in April 2007, which, if you remember, was right after the big financial crisis in 2008 and so, or right before that. And so one lesson to glean from her is that, you know, if you're an entrepreneur, there is no bad time to start a company. And I would make the case that bad times start great companies or cause great companies. And good times create. Well, they can create good companies too. But most of the time they're just, no pun intended, shady companies. Because when everybody is just totally optimistic and everybody's investing and it's easy to get all this kind of stuff going, shady ideas happen. But only people who truly believe start a company when things are not good. And so, in using her vernacular, shady times start good companies. So, yeah, and for those of you who are interested, this is a price point of about $10. You can go to Amazon and buy some. It would be very, very, it would be a unique experience for you. And by the way, she took no venture capital, so she owns the company. I think she owns like 97% and her kids own 3%. So one follow up question from that, of course is, so what happened to sharing the wealth with all your employees? And in fact, what she has done is she has phantom stock. So if or when she has a liquidity event or cashes out, there is kind of a virtual stock pool so that those employees will actually also benefit from the success of the company. So if you're an entrepreneur, if you're a female entrepreneur, I think you'd find this episode particularly interesting. So Susie Batiz, Poo Pourri went live today on the Remarkable people podcast at 6:30am Pacific. And please listen to it. You will. We're on a kind of a run for how to build great companies. So there's Susie Batiz. Last week there was Colin Breyer who Was chief of staff of Jeff Bezos. So he will explain to you. I mean, you could use Susie Batiste's episode for how to start a company and then Colin Breyers episode, how to build a company and make it into the next Amazon. So we got you covered from cradle to. Well, not grave, but cradle to heaven, cradle to success. So, Jeff C. Operators are standing by. Why don't you put some questions up first? I gotta find the right window because I have all 16 windows open, and I don't know which one. Oh, my goodness. Which I know I'm signed in because it's talking. There's so many tabs. Oh, my God, this is embarrassing. Okay, I'm close. Of course, now, you know, I'm going to close the window where stream yard is happening, and then I'm going to be thrown off of it. So I swear to God, I cannot find the tab. Let's see. Oh, there I am. Okay, so, Jeff, now, what a concept. I can see Covid was killed by my industry. Okay, I don't know. What industry are you in? Let's see. I don't know. First of all, Covid isn't dead yet, so that might be a little bit premature. So anything else, Jeff? Oh, Covid has killed my industry. Oh, duh. I completely read that wrong. I read that as mind if she killed Covid, you know? Yeah, well, what industry are you in that was killed? So let's see, what else? Fly, fly away. Fire. Questions here. Let's go. Susie Batiz. That's her link. Yeah, click on that. Let's see. Nad, Nad. Mem. Nad, nad. Memo. Is that. Did I say that right? You know, why can't you just spray something? I think the key. I mean, obviously you could spray deodorizer, but deodorizer I think, is just covering the smell up. It's replacing one smell with another. But the theory of poo pourri is that it puts a layer of gas over the water so that the smell cannot permeate above the water from your floating poop, I guess, is the chemistry. Hugo wants to know if I'm going to write more books. Well, Hugo, I've written 15 books, and to tell you the truth, 14 times, I said, this is the last book. So I'll tell you again, 15th time, I'm not writing any more books. I think that podcasting is a more powerful, flexible, and hopefully someday lucrative platform than writing books. The frustration I have with writing books is it takes about a year to write the book. It takes another up to a year for the publisher to get it out. So that's worst case, two years, most likely case, 18 months. And basically when you ship the book on the 18th month, the, you know, that day, it's already inaccurate and you already wish you could change stuff and you already have figured out that there's typos in it. And so but you're stuck. And you know, I don't know, they print a hundred thousand copies, and until those go, you can't make any changes. If you can't make any changes at all, you can't make any really substantial, substantial changes because you'll throw off the indexing and the pagination. I mean, it's like a whole thing, right? And so, I mean, you know, imagine the worst case that you were going to ship a book about how to start a company in March of 2020. So, you know, it's, it's about to go out and boom, the pandemic hits and there's a whole chapter in there about how to network, how to conduct face to face meetings, how to do that. There's not one word about how do you pitch using zoom or virtually? So on day one, your book is completely irrelevant, or not completely irrelevant, but largely irrelevant, or at least it doesn't handle a very important topic, how do you pitch on zoom? So there's just not the speed of a podcast. Now you could also make the case that with a book, you get one advance. That advance is typically given to you in three tranches at signing, at submission of quote unquote, the final manuscript, and finally at publishing. And for most authors, myself included, that's the, the last time you'll ever get paid. And not that many books actually exceed their advance. Whereas a podcast, I mean, you can monetize every single episode forever. And I just think, and you have much more flexibility about, you know, who you can use as a, an advertising partner, a sponsorship partner. Like right now, my podcast is sponsored by the Remarkable Tablet Company, which makes such perfect sense. I mean, from the outside looking in, you would think, oh God, you're such a genius. You have a podcast called Remarkable People and it's sponsored by the Remarkable Tablet Company. And I just want you to know that was pure dumb luck. I mean, that was not a plan. But I tell you something, it's better to be lucky than smart. So a long answer to my, the question, you know, I don't think I'm writing another book. Having said that, I do believe that I have about 70 interviews in the can, and I have truly learned from My guests, how to be remarkable. Whether it's Jane Goodall talking about the influence of her mom or Susie Batiz not taking, you know, all the negative negativity. Shelly Archambeau, faking it till you make it. Angela Duckworth talking about grit. Steve Wozniak talking about what it was like to start Apple. I mean, all of these people have been guests. And Bob Cialdini, how to influence and persuade people. David Aker, how to build your brand. So all of this expertise is in my podcast. And I swear I could write a book about how to be remarkable based on the interviews of the remarkable people I just saw. Man, writing a book is such pain. Someone once described writing a book as opening up your vein and pouring your blood onto a page. And that's what it would be like. So let's see. Great episode. Her story to me seemed more powerful than her viral videos. Probably some lessons in there too. Yes, her story is very powerful. It's. You just, you know, she had, let's see, she had two failed businesses and I think three divorces. I mean, she's had a challenging life and, you know, she just kept going at it just like the proof of perseverance. So, Dante, how do you. Do you agree that, well, being and self discipline, the new skills to change the game today in any business? I don't know if they're new skills. I mean, self discipline and well being have been timeless skills, in my humble opinion. And I think it's all about self discipline. And I think the flip side of self discipline is grit. And for those of you who are into the topic of grit, we have the world's best episode. This is with Angela Duckworth, and she spends an hour talking about grit and how to raise kids, how to influence people to be gritty. So, yeah, all these episodes are remarkable people dot com, as you can see. Let's see, what's the best way that Poo Pourri used to advertise? I, I think it was not so much, you know, buying ads in the Wall Street Journal or USA Today or Good Housekeeping. She basically got in her car and she, she went from store store in Texas. And it was purely word of mouth. She did have a viral video and that helped. And I think she was on qvc. So it's those kinds of things. But it wasn't a straight out ad buy, if that's what you're asking. I have been an evangelist for Enchantment wherever I go. Thank you very much. John Rogers, you've changed many lives with that book. Well, thank you. He's, he's remarking about a book called Enchantment. And Enchantment is a book I wrote about, oh my God, six years ago and, or maybe more now. And it, it, I, I was inspired by Bob Cialdini, who wrote the book Influence. Highly recommended. And how to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. And I thought, you know, both of them wrote their books. Well, Dale Carnegie in the 1930s and Bob Cialdini, God, he must have written that in, I don't know, the 90s. So I thought I would bring up the concept of influence and persuasion and changing people's hearts and minds and actions to include digital tools and the latest in social psychology. And Bob Cialdini has become a very good friend of mine and he is revving, he is revising Influence, and he will be the first repeat guest on Remarkable People because I'm going to interview him about his book Influence V2. It's back and is a ton of new material in it. So, yeah, he's going to be back. What platform would you recommend that a coach used to serve? Podcast, social media, book, etc. Daniela? I, I think podcast, I think a book is too slow, takes too long to get out. I think that many people, I think there are more people who are will listen to a podcast and actually read a book. And so I think that a podcast would be the most powerful platform right now. You know, maybe a clubhouse room will gain power, maybe a Twitter space. But until those two things are proven, and they are not, I would say a podcast. What else? Let's see, to your point, luck does seem to play a role in success. No? At the same time, you need to recognize the lucky opportunity. Do you have any thoughts on recognizing good luck and more importantly, taking action on that luck? Yeah, John, that is a very hard question because, you know, like, how do you recognize that? Take a worst case. Well, take my case. So I quit Apple to start a company in 1987. I returned in 1995. I quit in 1997 to start another company. A little bit after that, Steve Jobs saw me at a conference and offered me another position back at Apple, and I declined. So, you know, if I had stayed at Apple either of those two times or taken his third offer, let's just say that I would be significantly financially in a different place. So that was a case of bad luck or bad decision making. So imagine that I had stayed or said yes, and then Apple becomes a trillion dollar company. So the question is, why would Guy Kawasaki leave twice and Say no. Well, it's because obviously I thought I had better things to do, like start a company, but, you know, could make the case that if I had been smarter or luckier, it's not clear which would have worked better. I would have stayed, and the rest would be history. So, you know, like, how do you know? How do you know if you're the. If. Let's say you go to work for a company that no one's ever heard of, called Google, and you're employee number 50, and you're the facilities manager. So it's your job to find a new building, get the desk in, you know, build the partitions, put in the bathroom, you know, all that kind of stuff. And you're employee number 50. So I don't know how many shares you get, but, you know, you don't get 5% of the company for being facilities manager. And then Google becomes Google, and now, you know, your 10,000 shares are worth a hundred million bucks. Was that luck or was that wisdom? I would say that's luck, but. But as I get older and older, I'm telling you, it's better to be lucky than smart. So. Which I haven't exactly answered your question because I. I don't know how to tell you how to pick. Sometimes I. I truly do believe that you should just join the most stupid idea you hear, because I swear to God, if you look at the ideas that have succeeded at the time you had to make the decision, I don't think most people would think it's a viable company. You know, like, take ebay, for example. So somebody said to you, yeah, well, so we're going to enable people to buy used printers that they're not sure work, and we're going to enable people to sell their printer and they're not sure they're going to get paid. That's ebay. Yeah. What could go wrong? Right? So, yeah, see what else here? What's your opinion on where Apple is heading? Arkansas Car, business finance. You know, Hugh, I really don't know. I am outside the company. I pay full retail. I stand in line at the Apple Store just like any other schmo. It's not like I even know Tim Cook. I have no idea what they're doing. They're certainly not really revising their products very much. Although I have to say, the M1 chips are definitely an improvement. But, you know, it's not like we're standing in line and getting in line at midnight because there's a new thing that nobody has before, and it's you know what I'm looking for something to Macintosh that Macintosh was to Apple II or something through the iPhone that the iPhone was to the, I don't know, the Motorola phones. And I want that leap and we're not seeing that leap now. An Apple car. I used to be a Mercedes Benz brand ambassador, so I really kind of understand how cars are made and oh my God. I mean, if you think it's hard to make a computer a car, holy cow. So computer basically sits on your desk, right? Like maybe your room heats up too much or gets too cold, but it's not out in the wind and the sleet and the slow and it's not dealing with people coming at 100 miles an hour. And, and if your computer crashes, you don't die. And you know, it's not like there's an explosion going off in your computer every, I don't know, millisecond. That's driving pistons that are rotating camshafts and, you know, all that kind of stuff. I, I, I am amazed that cars work as well as they do. And I am amazed that computers work as well as they do. But cars are so much harder than computers. So all I'm telling you is this. I don't think it's that easy to build a car. And of course, if Apple builds a car, knowing Apple, you know it's going to be the greatest car ever, but it's only going to go 50 miles. And then when you need to charge an Apple car, it doesn't go into the industry standard recharging stations. So you have to buy a $2,000 dongle so that you can plug your Apple car into the standard electrical charging stations. Because Apple has decided that, you know, it needed the 16 prong charging cable, not the standard 4 prong charging cable. So I don't know. And you know, you won't be able to put any regular tires on it. You have to get the Apple tire. I mean, I just, you know, if you use all the analogies of how Apple works, man, I don't know if you want an Apple car is the bottom line. So what else here have really been joining your rooms and clubhouse? I'm the one asked if you would join. Tick tock. Yeah, Danielle, I just, you know, I'm working on weight reduction and when I lose enough weight, I'll, I'll go on TikTok and do a dance, all that. So, One second. What differentiation a consultant must have today in lines of pandemic and crisis? Well, you know, I, I don't know if that changes so much because consultation is all about expertise and analysis and decision making and implementation. And so a good consultant should be able to do that, regardless of a pandemic, by transferring those skills to digital interaction. So I don't know if that obviously, obviously getting digital is a skill, but I think the underlying value of a consultant remains the same. Um, so yeah, what else? Jeff, why do you think most of startups fail? What advice would you provide those who plan to launch their company? I think most startups fail because they run out of money, duh. So, you know, one thing I'd recommend is that sales fixes everything, which sounds like a duh ism, but you know, there's only really two functions for a startup. You gotta, somebody's gotta make it and somebody's gotta sell it. Everything else is bullshit. So when you start a startup, just remember sales fixes everything. Somebody's gonna make it, somebody's gonna sell it. As long as you got sales, you're still in the game. And I think that most startups fail because they overestimate their ability to deliver product and they overestimate demand. Besides that, everything's fine. And so, you know, in the tech business, when somebody pitches me an idea, whatever they say they're gonna ship, I add a year and whatever their forecast is, I divide by a hundred. And you would be right. That's what it's going to be. And unfortunately, that algorithm is more right than it's wrong. So just be prepared for that. Steve Jobs or Elon? Can you compare the two? I think that Elon Musk is the closest thing there is to a Steve Jobs right now. Having said that, you know, there is, I can make the argument that if Elon Musk pulls off everything he's going to, he's trying. He would have more impact on the universe than Steve. Because Steve, you know, he did computers and phones and tablets and retail and let's just face it, he truly made the world a better place. But Elon is into such diversity. Right? So I think Elon could honestly claim that he single handedly forced the automotive business to go electrical. That's a huge deal. Yeah, he's boring underneath cities, he's flying to Mars. I don't know what the hell he's doing with cryptocurrency. He. What else is he doing? Solar panels. Right. So solar panels on roofs that are supposed to be as cheap as regular tiles. Storage walls of battery power. So if. And these things are kind of really diverse. Reusable rockets. So the diversity of what Elon is doing, I think far exceeds Steve. But, you know, there has been only one Steve Jobs. What else? What is your best advice for breaking down a complex process to smaller steps so it can be doable in a reasonable time frame? Marsha, I think you kind of said it. I mean, it is to break it down into smaller steps. I have this theory that, you know, great changes don't occur overnight, and that it just. You just set it into your. Your personal philosophy that every day you make a little bit of progress. That, to take a simple example, with a podcast, I don't think you go from 0 to 5 million subscribers overnight. It's like every day you got to record something, you've got to edit it, you've got to promote it, and every podcast just adds a little bit more. And I do 52 a year. My God. I know how much is involved. I think I have. I have a metaphor for you about podcasting. This is very deep, so you can repeat this and give me credit for it. So I think that podcasting is the equivalent to bonsai. So with bonsai, you get this plant, and you're constantly training it with wire, and you're clipping the leaves, and you're kind of just constantly trying to improve the little tree until it's a beautiful bonsai. I think that's the same thing, at least for me, with podcasting. When I am editing and recording and doing research for a podcast, I feel like Mr. Miyagi making bonsai. That's. That's my metaphor for you. What else? Of course, Jeff C. Is the bonsai master. What is the best advice for the next generation of entrepreneurs in this crazy world that we live in? I think, Bob, that I don't know if my advice has changed that much. I mean, like, sales fixes everything, and you need to focus on the prototype. You need to remember that the purpose of a business is to create customers. It's not to raise money. You need to remember that the. The Keto company is its product and its services. It's not the glorification of its CEO. And indeed, I would say that when you see a company that's particularly glorifying its CEO, and the thinking is, well, we'll make our CEO very famous, and because people know who he is, they'll buy our product, or she is. They'll buy our product is total. You should. The core of your company is your product or service. It ain't you, bro. I hate to tell you. So focus on your product or service and if you have a great product or service, guess what? You will be glorified and you will be visible and all that good stuff. But if you're just out there, you know, just cut the. Stop trying to make keynote speeches and write white papers and have popular podcasts and. And I had an email exchange with an entrepreneur last week and he said, yeah, so we had this really great video about how we turned down a $30 million venture capital investment. And we made this video and we put it out. And my response to him was, I hate to tell you, bro, but real entrepreneurs, they're making products and services. They're not making bullshit YouTube videos about how you turn down a VC investment. Who the hell gives a shit why you turn down your investment? Why don't you make something useful? So you want to know how I really feel? That's how I really feel. What else? What do you think about the current state of evangelism developer relations and how things were when you wrote the Macintosh Way and selling the dream? What changed and what hasn't been? I must confess that I have no contact with Apple developer relations. So I don't know how it runs anymore. You could say I'm the father of wwdc, but I really, I don't know at all how it runs. I have to just punt on that question. Sorry, but the cost of living in California. Do you see tech expanding in other states like it has already started? You know, Rebecca, I, I think the reports of the mass abandonment of Silicon Valley by tech is vastly exaggerated. And you know, if, if you see that Oracle has moved his headquarters to Austin or whatever, or three VCs have moved to Miami or who else? HP Enterprise has moved to Austin. You know, I mean, those are data points. I, well, my take on this is that, that the, the people who are starting companies are, they're coming from the younger range of age and they are not tried and true Oracle employees, right? So an Oracle employee, an Oracle, I don't know, Oracle is 30 years old or whatever. And Oracle has legions of MBAs and they have financial analysts and they have INS analysts and risk analysts, analysts, and they have product managers, assistant product managers, they have QC managers, QC analysts. They have everything, right? And so if they decide, okay, so for these kind of positions and all the MBAs and, and accountants we need and you know, all these kind of test engineers, we're going to put it in Austin because it's cheaper and you know, blah, blah, blah. That doesn't mean innovation has moved to Austin. It means a large Fortune 500 company has moved to move to Austin. That's not the same as two guys in a garage. Two gals in a garage, a guy in a gal in a garage, computer science PhD students have now moved to Austin. You know, like if you went to Stanford, this is kind of pre pandemic metaphor, but if the two of you met at Stanford and now you're going to start a software company, now you're living in Palo Alto someplace or on campus, right? And you're going to start this software company, I think you're going to start it in your garage or your bedroom or your dorm. I don't think you're going to say to yourself, shit, we got to move to Austin because it's going to be cheaper for our employees. Like you don't have money to move to Austin. You're probably not finished with your schoolwork yet, so you can't move to Austin. So two guys in a garage, two gals in a garage, a guy in a gallon garage. They are not thinking, where should we relocate our startup? They're thinking, you know, how do I use our second bedroom? How do we steal, you know, computing cycles from Stanford so we don't have to pay for it? How do we like get the cheapest deal at aws? They're not thinking about, oh, let's relocate to Austin or let's go to Miami, Because I don't know why, why would you go to Miami? Because it's humid? I don't know. Because you believe in Ron DeSantis? Because bars open? Like I don't get that at all. So what else? What do you think is the best approach to overcoming vendor managers that are completely unresponsive to your calls and emails without going over their heads? I don't know what a vendor manager is, but I'm assuming your vendors are not taking good care of you. So friggin walk, man. I mean, what else do you do? I have a question for you guys. So I like to test this every once in a while. So I'm going to clap, okay? And I want you to tell me if your perception is that the audio and the video are synced. Because theoretically when I clap, you should hear me clap at the exact moment that my hands hit each other. And I swear sometimes there's problems where the audio is in front of the video and I hate that. Many people may not really consciously notice that, but it drives me crazy when that happens. So send a comment whether you think that my audio and video are perfectly synced. See, in sync oh, you should have a music group called In Sync. Anyway, what are the best three things you did for entrepreneurs during the Garage.com days? Jim? I would say that I think we taught them about how to position their product, how to pitch, and then how to negotiate a deal. This is really blocking and tackling, but I don't think you can assume those things are true for every entrepreneur. So entrepreneurship is fundamentally simple. You know, it's. It's not about clever tax havens, and it's not about clever, you know, all kinds of, I don't know, sophisticated algorithms and all that. Basically, somebody's got to make it, somebody's got to sell it, and you need to raise money to do it sometimes. That's it. It's not rocket science. Let's see Martin Reed do it again. Geez. In Sync, You know, a couple milliseconds here, a couple milliseconds there. Ben. It adds up. So I, I once, I used to use. See this? This is an ATM mini. And ATM Mini has all these inputs. So I could take the video from my Sony A6100 and get a cable that goes from micro HDMI to hdmi. And then Atem Mini has software where you can actually add frames of delay. So, so I would add three frames of delay so that the audio synced up with the video. But then my main man, Jeff C. Convinced me that a Rodecaster Pro is better for podcasting than Atem Mini. That's why the ATM mini is here, not plugged in, and I'm on a Rodecaster Pro. So the beauty of the Rodecaster Pro is that you have many outputs and you can connect your phone and computer to it and use them as inputs much easier. And even I can like play music if you want. Right. So how you like that, huh? This is the theme from Remarkable people. Should sound familiar. Anyway, I digress. Let's see what else what to do if we not good in demoing the prototype or being too awkward while showing demo to somebody. Amman that is just a necessary skill. And there's this. There is no alternative. So if you the CEO of a company and you cannot demo your product, shame on you. You should just keep practicing and keep doing it until you can. Because at an early stage of a company, if you can't demo the product, you suck. I mean that. It's like that's what you have to do. So just get over it and do it. What else in your opinion, what school is the best startup? Enterprise training. And why? You know, I guess you could say Stanford. But I, I don't think, you know, that Stanford is necessary or sufficient to be a successful entrepreneur. I mean, Steve Jobs didn't go to Stanford, neither Steve Wozniak, Larry and Sergey did. David Philo did, Jerry Yang did. I mean, there's a lot of Stanford, but I, I don't think that, I don't think that it's as simple as what's. I went to Stanford, I didn't make a billion dollar company. So, you know, it's, it's not that simple. I mean, it might increase the probability, but I don't think it's necessary nor sufficient. Oh, so margin. Oh, I'm going to answer margin here. Margin. What is the name of your club in clubhouse? It is. Well, this is interesting. So I name my club in Clubhouse remarkable, as opposed to remarkable People. Because I thought, well, if I name it remarkable people, they're going to be people who wonder, well, is there a space between remarkable and people, or is the P in people intercapped? And is it one word? And so remarkable people involves typing two words, not one. So I thought, I'll just keep the most simple generic thing and just call it remarkable. So my club and remarkable people. I mean, my club in clubhouse is called remarkable. Okay, what's the next question? There is no next question. Can you see blockchain tech being a dominant force in the next five to 10 years? Mark? I think it depends on, on how you define dominant. So what does dominant mean? I think it could be very useful. Like for. I have to tell you, I, I do believe in the ultimate success of NFTs. I think that. So here's a scenario. So let's say you're a surfer and your favorite shaper is Pearson Arrow. So now Pearson Arrow sells a board with an nft. So this proves the provenance of the board. It's not a counterfeit Pearson arrow. This is the real deal because it comes with an nft. Okay, so that's good. I think that increases the value. And number two, let's say that someone really famous buys that board. You know, take an extreme. I don't know. Kelly Slater buys a Pearson arrow. So now the NFT belongs to Kelly Slater. Kelly Slater now sells the board. So I will tell you a Kelly Slater NFT/Pearson Arrow NFT. That truly proves that Pearson Arrow built the board and Kelly Slater used the board. I think is valuable. Now, it's only valuable if you also believe in collectibles. So if you're the kind of person who says, like, why would anybody Buy a jersey used by Wayne Gretzky or a baseball throw signed by Willie Mays or, I don't know, an inflated football signed by Tom Brady. If you're that, if you're the kind of person who says, why the hell do I care? It's just another football, it's another baseball, it's another Jersey, then maybe NFTs are not for you. Although I will tell you, I, I, it's a little more of a stretch for me. And of course, an NFT is powered by blockchain with digital content, right? So like, why would anybody care if, let's say, let's say Annie Leibovitz says that I'm taking a portrait of LeBron James and it's this one is the one with my nft. So you really know that, you know, you got the one that Annie Leibovitz took of LeBron James and sh and this is the one with the NFT attached to it. Is that more valuable than just going to Getty and buying the Same photo for 300 bucks to use? Well, if you believe that the baseball signed by Willie Mays and the jersey worn by Wayne Gretzky and the football signed by Tom Brady is more valuable than the football at Big Five, then I think you would believe that the NFT version of the Annie lebovitz print of LeBron James is probably more valuable. So hallelujah. At least I can tell you that I really, I believe in NFT a lot more than I do in cryptocurrency. So what else do you still believe in? The value of academia, giving the amount of online resources we have today? I do actually. Gerard, I think the college experience, although we haven't had it for a year, I think the college experience of going out into the world away from your home, interacting with people who are roughly your age, roughly your perspectives, is very good. I think that the college experience, the totality of the college experience is very good and should not be substituted for just by virtual learning in your bedroom at home. And I look forward to the day where my kids can actually go back to school for both our benefits, if you know what I mean. What microphone do you recommend for podcasting or for colleges? Teaches radio TV and they use SM7B I think Rebecca, an SM7B is the mic that is both XLR and USB, I think which is a big advantage. I this, this is Ohio PR 40 the I have two studios in my house studio. It's like two places where I broadcast from the at the other place I use A, sure. I think it's 87A, but it's discontinued. And the reason why I use a high LPR 40 is because Jeff C. Said to use it. And so if. If the guy who does your sound engineering tells you to use the mic, there are many reasons to listen to his recommendation. Chief of which is he's probably right. And secondly, if you sound lousy and you're not using the mic he recommended, he's going to blame the mic. So if you use the mic you recommended, he cannot blame the mic. It's his fault. Right. So that's just reducing the variables. So I use XLR mics, and maybe it's pure mental, but I have it in my head that XLR mics are better than USB bikes. And maybe it's total, but, you know, I don't use any. I had a yeti and I gave it away. I have. I have a bunch of. Actually, it's upstairs right now. I have a bunch. I have two countrymen's too, because when, as a public speaker, when I used to speak in person, I love the countryman mic. So I have a countryman. I have two countrymen mics that. That are XLR that I used to use. But then I noticed that these kind of mics, not the, you know, one in front of your face or a lavalier, they're not as good as this kind of mic. And again, if Jesse says, use this mic, I use this mic, so that he can't blame my mic and my choice. So let's see. Are social media gurus a thing of the past? Huh? I think gurus are in general. So I think that, you know, whenever somebody positions himself or herself as a guru, beware. I think that what makes a person truly a guru, truly an expert, is not because he or she declares that he's an expert or she's an expert, but because they really are experts. So I don't think, for example, Steve Jobs declared himself a visionary. People, you know, endowed him with that labeling. So what I see, people say, yeah, I'm a thought leader, I'm a guru, I'm a visionary. I think it's total bullshit. And no true thought leader, guru or visionary would call themselves a thought leader, visionary or guru. That's like. So if. If you want a funny thing, if you're a member of Clubhouse, go to my clubhouse profile and read what I say there. Yeah, let's see, what else. Jeff, man, time flies. It's 10:45 already. Would you consider doing a live episode using an animated memoji. I mean, I guess so, but, you know, to what end? I mean, what, for the sake of doing it? I don't know. I don't know. I. Oh, please type the name of my mic. I, I don't know. See, I'm using Streamyard, okay? So in Streamyard, I'm seeing comments from Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. And so when I type a response, I don't know if you're gonna see it, but it's this. Oh, my, my people who, my people have already typed it for you. So there you go. Now we all typed it for it. Now you're like 16 of them. So hile PR 40. And then the, the mixer that I'm using is a Rodecaster pro, and the Rodecaster pro is the only way that I have figured out so that I can use an XLR mic with Clubhouse. And believe me, I tried. Oh, boy, I tried. So, yeah, Let's see about a couple more questions, because let me look at something here. I got a new surfboard yesterday, and I want to see. Conditions are crap. I got a new surfboard, and I just am dying to go out on that board, but there's too much water right now, so. Okay. Okay, so two more questions. Jeff, Have you a PH sensor on your surfboard yet? What? To detect the acidity of the water? No. The answer, short answer is no. Okay, what else? Find me another question. That's funny. Are you as worried as, Are you as worried about Eric Schmidt, or I think you mean as Eric Schmidt when it comes to the AI race against China. Thoughts on China? Well, I, I, I don't know enough about AI to judge that. I think it's very difficult to boil it down, any kind of technology to one country versus another country. I would prefer to have a discussion about one technology or one product or one service versus another, as opposed to, say, all of China is better at AI than all of America, which is not. That's too blunt a take on it. I, I also think that for the past five years, we've been handing the future to China. It. I mean, if I were China, Canada, I would be thanking God or Buddha for Donald Trump. Like, if you said to China or Canada, God, we need a way where America tells all the best and the brightest from around the world not to come to us anymore. And we need to scare people from investing in America and living in America and going to American schools, and we need to put barriers in front of them, and we need to call people who are brown rapists and murderers, and we need to, like, make it as difficult for people to start companies and be entrepreneurs. But, you know, we're really going to perfect how to build tall walls in Texas, and we're going to figure out, really how to separate families from their kids. I mean, you could not have a better leader to help Canada and China than Donald Trump was. You want to know how I really feel? So, yeah, you know, as Pogo once said, we have met the enemy, and he's us. There you go. So you want to know how I really feel about politics? Follow me on LinkedIn. So let's see. Okay, so I think that I am going to go and work on my little bonsai tree I e my podcast. So again, this week's guest was Susie Batiz, founder of Poo Pourri. If you're an entrepreneur, this is a can't miss episode about starting a business, dealing with negativity. Last week's is also can't miss. Frankly, every episode is can't miss. But last week's is also can't miss Colin Breyer talking about how he was chief of staff of Jeff Bezos and what he learned and how to build a trillion dollar, you know, company like that. And yeah, so go to remarkable people, please, and be more remarkable. Thank you very much. Bye.