Remarkable People Behind the Podcast: Design and Creativity

Sam, Hello. I'm. You caught me clicking on something.

Which is. Happens more than one.

Nothing like highly professional people that you're gonna watch live video with. So I'm Guy Kawasaki. I'm in Santa Cruz, California, and this is Wednesday. And what does Wednesday mean? It's Wisdom Wednesday. And what happens on Wisdom Wednesdays? You get some new episode from. From Remarkable People. Today's guest is Sarah Stein Sternberg, and she is the boss of the D school at Stanford. The D school at Stanford is this. It's kind of an odd duck at Stanford. Cross functional, cross dimensional, cross topic, cross departmental thing where you learn about design. And not just design in the sense of, you know, drawing stuff, but design of companies, design of systems, design of products. And it's one of the coolest parts of Stanford, really.

I think Sarah Stein. Greenberg just.

Oh, I wonder if we should reshoot this.

No, I think we're fine because we're.

Well, if we're live, we can't reshoot it, so it doesn't matter. Right. So anyway, her name is Kirstein Greenberg.

Yes.

Well, listen, it's no worse than people saying, oh, you. I love your book, Guy. Yeah, okay, which book? I wrote 15. Oh, rich dad, poor dad. Oh, yeah.

I actually had Kawasaki when I spoke in Denver the other week. I said, yeah, I produced Guy Kawasaki's podcast and they say, oh, I love his books. And I said, which one? They went, rich dad for that. And I went, no, I don't think. And I think she goes, no, no, I meant. And chant. I know you're talking about. He was really embarrassed because he wanted to know that he knew the difference. But it was pretty funny because I'm like, yeah, he tells us.

Speaking of that, we should also, we should invite Robert Kiyosaki.

That would be a good one. Yeah.

Then we're both on at the same time. It proves that there's two of us. We're not the same person.

But I think it would break the Internet or we'd go back in time or something weird would happen. If you get both of them on the screen, people do like his book.

Or I mean, or. And also you can ask him if everybody tells him that they. If they tell him that they like Art of the Start, I'm going to.

I'm going to ask him, you know what we should do? We should have a episode where it's me and Robert and Jackie Chan. That that would be.

What we should do is just for a contest. And by the way, we should do this in circle, which if you want to join the community?

You.

You could go to bit ly remarkablepeoplecircle. Make sure it is case sensitive to join that. But a contest for that, we would just flash all those different people the pictures of Jackie Chan, Guy Kawasaki, Robert Kiyosaki, and they'd have to count how many times it was actually guy and they would win a prize.

Well, it would be like captcha, click on all the squares where there's guy in it. That would be funny. That would be so freaking funny. Have a picture of Jackie Chan, have a picture of Robert Kiyosaki and me and put it in this captcha thing.

That would do that. That would be good.

That's actually. Now that you're saying that though, that's actually really racist. It's like the Hispanic actresses, obviously. Well, I'm just saying it. No, I'm not saying you're racist. I'm saying people getting people mixed up because there's all the, like all the Selma Hayek and. Yeah. And people get their names wrong. They're like. And here's Rosie.

What about Morgan Fairchild? I mean, Morgan Fairchild, Morgan Freeman. Oh, who does he get confused with? He makes a joke about it. Morgan Freeman and Samuel Jackson.

I mean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get the to sleep. Yeah.

And we've gone off the rail.

That is the worst swear ever on the live show, people.

Sorry, folks. So did you see that?

I mean, that is a pretty funny video. You gotta admit, if you're a parent, you truly relate to that video.

So something.

You know which one I'm talking about, right? I mean, I'm not imagining this, right? No.

Yeah.

No, you don't know or no, no.

Tell us which one it is now. But don't say the F bomb again.

Samuel L. Jackson. Where she's reading Goodnight Moon.

Oh, okay, got it, got it. Okay.

Yes. So. Boy howdy. So see what happens when. But this is a good. This is a great episode. You could find it at Remarkable People.

There's no swearing on it.

Well, there is swearing, but you could give us a rating review. Tell us what you think about it by just holding up your smart device and clicking on this QR code. It'll take you right there. And we love rating review. In fact, we read them sometimes on the podcast. If you'd like to have yours read, make sure you do that. Leave us a remaining review because it does help the podcast out. But today episode the. The icebreaker is do you create designs for work? So I think. Tell me if I'm wrong, who does People.

Yeah.

Like, exactly. I think more than ever, that is just sort of like you have to do that. That's what is expected of you. For almost every job that you're gonna. You're gonna do, you're gonna have to design something.

Could you could just be a weekly summary email or something? Yeah, yeah.

Shayla's had to do that. When my daughter had her internship, she was a coding. She was doing. She was qa. She does QA for computer science. But she would do the presentations and she would do them in Canva. She would make these Canva presentations and her boss was always like, you're amazing. She was like, thank you. Because they didn't. It was when Canva was new.

Right.

And now he's working for her.

I think she's. I think he's still her boss, but she, she loves. She loved using it, though, because she made great presentations. So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this first question Peg that you had about, you know, you talked about. Sarah believes design is not just for people who think of themselves as designers. You know, we're going to ask, do you agree or disagree? And so do you think this is, this is happening less that. I mean, I think most people think that they design. They have some sort of design bone in their body. I mean, some people say I'm horrible. Like, I don't dress myself. I go. I used to go to the mall and just see what this. See what was on the mannequin and I would buy what was on the mannequin. That's how tmi. But I was. I'm not, not saying, like, I went to Victoria's Secret or something. I was just normal, like the captain.

Yeah.

So we have gone way off the rails on this one. But, but I think more people think that I can design something like with tools like Canva or even going to Pinterest and, you know, seeing what other people are posting and then kind of putting something together. So do you think, what do you think? I mean, is it. Is it just for people who think they're designers or not?

I think that it used to be. I think it used to be, you know, you know, going back to when, before everybody had computers and stuff, it wasn't possible. Things would be hand drawn and then transferred and different ways. But now I think, you know, everybody can make some kinds of designs. And when Canva first came out, when we first were involved with the Canva launching for the US in 2014, designers were very angry graphic designers. Anybody that had that kind of title was like, how dare you use this. How dare you tell people to use this. This is, you know, this is going to be the end of civilization as we know it. Everybody's going to use Comic Sans. You know, Papyrus is going to come back. And it. It didn't. It's true. Those things were said. Those were actual quotes.

Yeah, right.

You know, probably you could go back on my LinkedIn. They're probably there from people saying it because people are so angry. But the thing is, it can be democratized design, but that doesn't mean that you still don't need people that are higher levels. And there's so many ways that professionals that are 100%, that's their job, have been able to even get more work by creating Canva templates, you know, creating brand kits and doing all the things and then they're in there for people. So it basically opened the world up. It may have evened a few things out, but. A few things.

What I mean, that's like, you know, quote unquote, professional writers saying word processing has killed writing and should only be professional writers. That's ridiculous. And I, I remember this is a great story about designers not going to piss off the entire industry, but I wrote a book called Enchantment, and I held a contest so for the COVID design. And I gave a thousand bucks, I think, for the winning cover design. But I got such hate from the professional design community because what I was doing was fostering a contest where 750 people entered and one person won. So 749 people, they said, were ripped off because it was spec work. And you're not supposed to do spec work. What you're supposed to do is meet with various professional designers, explain what you want, get proposals, and then agree on one and pay that one. So. But I just wanted to democratize it. And the person who designed the COVID for Enchantment was like a engineering student in Jakarta or something. I mean, and it was totally out from left field, but he had the best design. And so do I feel bad that I ripped off an entire industry, or do I feel good that I help one kid who never would have had the exposure, get the exposure. And guess which way I feel?

Well, I think that there's a lot of, you know, we've talked about Canva and some of the other places. Like even, I mean, you could even say, like some of the ride sharing things like Lyft, you know, the reason that's working is because you get the driver that's closest to you. And it's the cheaper thing than getting A taxi. And you know, and that's why they're working.

Another way to look at it is, I don't know any other industry where you don't have to pay the price. So in speaking, you give hundreds of speeches for free, and then eventually you start getting paid. How about being a programmer? You, you know, you take programming tests, you go to hackathons, you do a lot of stuff for free to prove that you're a programmer until you get hired. So I don't. Playing music, I mean, acting, all that kind of stuff. It's not like every high school drama student is getting paid a quarter million bucks to be in the drama club. So, I mean, that's just the way it is.

Of course, Matthew McConaughey was from Longview, where I am from. So I'm just saying.

Yeah, and I know that Lincoln Mercury, capital of the world. There are more Lincoln Mercury's in Longview, Texas than any other city in the world.

Who knows? All right, all right.

It is interesting though. I mean, some things have jobs like word processors. I mean, it used to be that people had like an assistant and the assistant would do all the correspondence and then the boss would just sign it. And now everybody does their own. For the most part. Most people do their own communication. Obviously some people have people helping them with email and probably nobody prints out letters and signs them, but it would still be cool if they did.

Do you remember the last time you did that? I literally can't remember printing out a letter and signing it.

Do you want me to show you what I do? They're from Canva, so they're little Canva cards.

That's not a letter, but it's.

It's a handwritten card. So I have a card and then I write a note on it.

That's nice. Have you ever gotten one from. I haven't gotten one from Peg. That's pretty. And she's got any soap.

So I actually, I. I made these little cards in Canva, so I do that because nobody else does that kind of thing anymore.

That's a good idea. That's great.

And you send notes, Guy. Sometimes you send notes?

No, I send a note in every interview, but with a gift to the guest. But you know, a printed letter like Dear Pig.

Yeah, that kind of letter has been a long time.

But you know, like when you send. When you.

Docusign has changed the world. I don't sign anything except with DocuSign.

But you did, like, so that was my point. Some things have kind of changed and taken Jobs away a little bit. Like, you know, it used to be an entry level level job. You could start as a receptionist or like Jane Goodall. Yeah. And me, by the way. Me, Jane Goodall. And who else was it? There was someone else.

Ariana Huffington.

I don't think.

Ariana was royalty from the first get go.

Yeah. So anyway, I, I did though, I started at Merrill lynch as a, as a receptionist and worked my way up to like, you know, whatever. But. But guys, that's not even around anymore that you got to let.

Jeff. No, you got to let the white man talk.

What are you talking about?

My beard got to get his foot.

In make Texas great again.

So I was going to say that. But you do do something like that because when you sent out your book, wise guy, you had a specific, you know, you said something, you signed it, and it had a little note in it. When you sent that out, I mean, you called me George. But other than that, it was really great.

There was a cookie with it.

Yeah. And it was cookie. And there's some. I mean, the per. Like, to Peg's point, the personalization is really, really important. So.

Yeah, I think it means more now than it used to even. But yeah, I mean, that's just the thing that people now send email. You don't send people a letter. That's, you know. But I do send these little cards out and I hand write little notes on them. So that's cool.

So.

And I make them in canva.

I merge more socks.

That's true. So how do you inspire creativity when you need it? That's the thing. So another question that Peg has come up with that I think is really good because I'm fascinated is all about that. Yeah, I'm really fascinated by creativity and what makes it and how do you inspire it and how do you get it when you need it? So, Guy, what do you like when you're coming? I know you have certain talks that you do and you kind of refresh them, but when you need to be creative, what do you do to inspire creativity?

Oh, man, I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't consider myself a creative person. I just work my ass off.

But that's being creative. I mean, writing 12 books. Yeah, that is.

Writing counts.

No, but to me, and I'm somebody, I, you know, I have 15 books. To me, creativity is when you, you know, you go to the Louvre or something or I don't, I don't consider or something that just breaks ground. New category of something. You know, I'm not in that. I don't even. I don't consider myself more of a.

You're more of an analytical writer. You do your outline, and then you just complete your outline. Then you go back and edit it. So I don't think you think of that as a creative process.

I don't.

Once you get in there and you're editing, it is. It is creative. But you just. You're in the flow at that point because it's what you're focusing on. So I think you're. You, you do it, but I don't think you think of that. Like, think about when you were in Australia editing a book, and you were, like, sitting at Bondi Beach. I think that was the place. There was a cafe that you went to. Evan, you have. Yeah. You have a little ritual. So you go, you get your computer. I'll tell you your creative process. You get your computer, you go to a place that's amazing, so you can look at the ocean. You get coffee, and. And you start editing. Am I wrong?

Nope, you're right.

Egg's always right. So.

So now if we want another book.

Knows everything. PK knows everything.

You don't think about it, but that kind of is your. That's the flow that I know that.

You do, wouldn't you say?

And then when you're working on it, you just keep going until you're done.

So, like, take somebody like John M. Chu. Okay. I think that he's creative. I don't think guy is creative. John M. Chu is creative.

I think people would argue that.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you're not creative. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead, Jeff.

I'm saying there's different types of creators. Wouldn't you say there's some creative surfers that you watch or you look at and see? Yeah. I mean, you wouldn't think, you know, surfing is creative. More of a skill. But I think there's.

I think, to use a bizarre example, I think Marquez Brownlee is very creative. He's changed how YouTube is used.

Yeah, he's. He's such a cool example because he started as a teenager, and I love watching his early ones. He's just this really young kid in the neatest bedroom that any teenage kid has. Yeah.

Have you reached out to him? Have we reached out to him?

I, I. Okay. I had him scheduled. Okay. This is a great story. I had him scheduled, and it was a trip. This is when you're doing interviews in person. So I was going to interview him on the way. I would land in Newark Interview him and then go to Kennedy, then go to Manhattan to interview Ariana, but the flight was so delayed. I said, I got, I'm, I, I'm gonna come back to New Jersey and get you, but I gotta get Ariana right now. And I think maybe I insulted him. So ever since then he's not answered my email.

But Marquez, if you're watching, we really would love to have you on because we are big fans and we love what you do.

So I, I, So anyway, okay, guys.

Really sorry that that happened.

Yeah, yeah, it was United's fault.

So, speaking about creativity, and we mentioned her name many, many times on this podcast, but Morning Pages from Julia Cameron. So I know you, you still do it big every morning.

If I'm, I try to do the three pages every day. It does help me a lot in my creative process. So if you're not familiar, Julia Cameron. Yeah, Three pages.

Pages.

Yeah, you're right. Yep.

That's a lot.

That's what she recommends. So you write three pages a day. It's in the artist's way and it helps. Like, you're supposed to not look at anything else before that. So no phone, no reading anything, Nothing else. You just get up and you write. And it just like it's stream of consciousness. It doesn't have to be about anything. It could be about something. Just get going and just write three pages. So by the way, yes.

I mean, we need to mention that John M. Chu and Julia Cameron both have episodes of Remarkable People.

That's true. Yes, they are remarkable. And also they've been on the podcast. Julie Cameron is the I like Morning Pages. It's a great process for just like, the hardest thing is to not look at anything else before then. Because obviously I look at my phone. You have to be like, don't look at my phone.

Guy called me.

The first thing is you want to look at what time it is, and then next thing you know, you're looking at Instagram.

Yeah, we gotta flush the cash.

But seriously, that is a great one. If you haven't, if you don't know what Morning Pages are, go back. I'm sure what the episode number is, but go back and check that one out because it's a really, really good one. And John Hughes, don't forget Sarah. Yeah. Yes.

She's all about the institutionalization of design and creativity at Stanford, which is very cool.

So I wonder who's been through that class. It's interesting, some of the Stanford classes, like the people that have gone through it, have created what's in Silicon Valley right now, the design thinking process. They're the people that are going to create in that school. They're going to be the ones that are creating the next generation of customer service. UX and all that kind of great design. Because there's a lot of things that go with design. It's not just creating graphics. It can be like creating an app, working on an app, building a website, customer experience.

It could be a business model.

So, yeah. So this is all about creativity. Have we talked about if you know our circle yet? Because that's amazingly creative. Because Peg put it together. She's amazing. So if you want to know more about and be part of our community, make sure you go to Remarkable People community. You can find it at Bit Ly Remarkable People Circle that is case sensitive. So just enter what you see on the screen there and there's going to be all sorts of cool things there that we want to make sure you guys sign up for. In fact, you know, right now, if you have like a remarkable person that we have just totally forgot about that we haven't crossed our minds, we would love for you guys to let us know somebody that you think would be remarkable for the podcast. Now, they've got to be truly remarkable because guy has got a high standard. Like, that's why I'm not on screen right now. But there's a lot of.

I wouldn't even invite myself.

So there's a lot of. There's a. There's a high, high standard there. But we'd love to know who you think we should be on the podcast.

So the name, the name, the circle reminds me of that book. What was the name of that book that was like about Silicon Valley? The Navajo Roberts was in the movie. Not Emma Roberts.

Emma Stone.

Oh, darn, I'm totally blanking. The girl that was in Harry Potter.

Emma Watson.

Watson, yeah. And Tom Hanks.

I don't know what.

That reminds me.

The only name I recognize there so far is Tom Hanks.

Yeah. You don't know Emma Watson?

No. So it was a book.

Wait, let me pull it up.

Anyway, so make sure you guys go to the podcast. Here is the. If you want to get an easy way to get to.

Yeah, it was the circle where you.

Can leave a rating and review. You can just click on this QR code. It'll take you right there. And we would love you for you to leave one because we will sometimes read those on the podcast. So leave us a rating review that really helps us out.

Okay. So the circle is the exact name of it. I was correct. So it was a movie that Emma Watson was in. Nope. It's about like. It's about like a. Like a Facebook kind of. It's like a Facebook slash Google kind of deal, and it's a social media company and it's really, really cool. But the thing is, it's all kind of science fiction, and there's a character in it who's like, based on you guy, because Shayla and I both read it. Yeah, I was like this character's guy because his initials are the same as yours, so I'll have to find it. But it was a 2007 movie. But. But that's. It's funny that they named it the Circle because this is kind of like showing the bad sides of social media and how you can get over involved in it.

So if you have seen this movie, let us know in the comments, because I haven't watched it. And is it. What is the score on Rotten Tomatoes? Because I don't know. When was it you said the 2000.

It actually was a good movie. I actually really liked it.

But John M. Chu said, don't pay attention to Rotten Tomatoes scores.

The book was by Dave Eggers. I swear. You know the book guy, because we talked about it when it came out.

Throwing things.

Wait, wait, it's not in the shot. Move it over to.

It'S reflection. Okay.

Oh, I remember that book. Yeah.

Yeah. It was just kind of like. Yeah. So anyway, we should. We should find Dave Eggerts and have him on because he wrote. It's kind of like the back end of social media. And in the social network, all the.

Bad stuff, it was fiction.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

So anything else about Sarah's episode that you want to tease Guy before we. We sign off? Because anything about creativity and design, I think, you know, we're gonna.

She also. She also talks about the impact of the pandemic on creativity and design, which is quite interesting. So. Yeah, yeah. I mean. I mean, think of this as going to Stanford for free for an hour.

We've got a lot of Stanford people there. It's more than an hour. We got a lot of good Stanford on the. On the show. So.

Yeah.

Anyway, with that, we thank you guys so much for watching today. Make sure you do go to remarkablepeople.com and click on everything. Get on the circle that we have that case sensitive.

You can capitalize the R, the P or not. We don't care.

That's right. And at our Circle, at Remarkable People Circle, which is case sensitive. So make sure you. And we'd love for you guys to sign up for that and join us there as well. Peg. Anything else?

That'll be it. Thank you guys for watching every week and tuning into the podcast. We appreciate you.

Yes, we do.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.