Remarkable People Behind the Podcast: Does math cause you anxiety? You’re in the majority.

Foreign. Good morning. It's got Kawasaki. Who? Jeff? I hear an echo. So it's Guy Kawasaki. I am in Santa Cruz, California. It is Wednesday, June 9, and I hope you're having a good summer. I don't know if summer's officially started. Summer is more state of mind than it is an official date. But anyway, I've started summer. And so we need to mention to you that we had a new podcast released today. It's with Dr. Joe Bowler of Stanford University. She is a professor of mathematics teaching, as opposed to mathematics. So the teaching of math. And she discusses how to optimally teach math. What's wrong with the way we have been teaching math since the 1800s. And she has become sort of an evangelist for revolutionizing how we teach math. And in also, I think, very interesting idea, which is we should teach data analytics and statistics, I. E. You know, when you read the news, how do you interpret these numbers that people spit out at you? So I arguably. I don't know about you, but I would make the case that that's more important than calculus. So the icebreaker question is, seriously, did you struggle with math in school? I know I did. Although I was an AP calculus. I don't know. Like, I think about it, of course, that is literally 50 years ago, but I think I was in AP calculus. I have to say, though, the other day. The other day, I saw my son's freshman algebra test printed out. So I tried to answer it. I did not do well. So I don't know. I don't know when people even use algebra in real life, much less calculus. So math makes me cry. I blame my middle school teachers. That's funny. Stacy, any chance you're related to Sarah Weddington, who I knew. She was the lawyer in Roe vs Wade. So, anybody else? Did you struggle with math? The only part of math that makes me anxious is the one that relates to household economy, if it involves my household and kids and more. So, Juan Pablo, I think you're saying that the least scary part about math is the budget. I hear you. I hear you. Let's see. Anybody else struggle with math? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I still look back and I wonder how I pass math. Me, too, actually. I really. I don't understand how I pass math, and I don't understand how I pass physics. Those are the two things. And as I look back, I went to a school called Iolani in Hawaii. And I will have to say that the course or the curriculum or the subject that has been most valuable to me over the course of My life is English because English taught me how to write, it taught me how to think to the extent that I do think and it taught me how to speak because we had presentations in English, I think so it's ironic because especially back then if you're Asian, it was all about, you know, being the math whiz and the science whiz and the physics whiz because your parents wanted you to be a doctor or you know, something like a dentist. And then come to find out with hindsight, English was the most important subject for me. But, but listen, I think one thing that math definitely does is teaches you a way of thinking or it exercises your brain in terms of analytics. So Joe Bowler's episode was really interesting and I think, you know, her thinking could revolutionize the teaching of math. So check it out, it's remarkable people.com and she is the currently episode. Let's see. Oh, can you put the back to the logic acquired from learning math shapes your brain. There you go. That's what I just said. But yeah, I also suck at math, especially when I was called to solve a problem in front of the class. This is a very. People obviously have a love hate relationship with math because I think that it does teach you how to think. Not that you're ever going to use calculus, but it teaches you how to think and then that, that ability to think and analyze is carried on and used for the rest of your life, not necessarily the solving of calculus or differential equations. So yeah, I mean if you're interested in math and teaching, you definitely should listen to Joe Bowler. It's a whole different look on math, the teaching of math. So what else? Oh yeah, you can join my Text community at 831-609-0628. Just send a text message there. We'll respond with how to get started. I must tell you though, it is only for U.S. and Canada. That's just how the company's set up. So that'll be a. The way it works is you register and then I send out these text blasts and then if you respond to me that's one to one. You know, you to me and then if I respond to you it's one to one. So it's not like a, you know, a group chat where everybody's hearing everything. It, it only starts off the initial text is one to many and after that it's one to one. So any questions about math? Well, don't give me math problems though. I think I prefer math over English. Well Kevin, to each his own. I Mean that, you know, believe me, we, we need mathematicians and scientists as much as we need English and writers. So I had to take up calculus as a science major and struggled the entire time. Glad those days are behind me. Jacob Martinez. Yeah, I hear you, Jacob. Oh, God. How's it Watsonville? I hope it's going well in Watsonville, Jacob. So let's see, do you, yeah, this is a very good question. So how many of you use calculus in your job at all? This is a very interesting question, but, you know, I, I would anticipate that it's going to be a surprisingly low number. Having said that, though, maybe, maybe seriously, maybe taking calculus in high school taught us skills and shaped our brains to use analytical skills that we use the rest of our life. I'm willing to concede that. And, but I today, looking at all the fake news and all that stuff, I think it's probably more important to learn statistics and data analysis than calculus. But I digress. So. But if you're interested in teaching in math, Joe Bowler, today's remarkable person, Brandy Wenstrom. No, I don't know what the question you're answering, so zero. Never use it. Oh, that's the question. Yeah. Huh. Huh. There, there is, this is, this is like a religious issue, I think, to many people, especially math teachers. So I, I did enjoy, though I learned a lot about teaching and education with, with interviewing Joe Bowler. So you, you will enjoy that. So, okay, any questions for me? As opposed to math problem, Joe's approach seems related to constructive learning, creation, facilitation versus lecturing. Seymour Papert and Alan Kay have been pushing for this for decades. Do you think it'll ever take root? How. Yeah, you know, Ben, I think what may be a big change is the pandemic. So how can the pandemic influence the teaching of math? Well, with the pandemic, lots of colleges suspended SATs or using SAT scores. And I swear much of the teaching of math in these narrow confines with time limits is constructed to teach you how to score well on the sat. But if the pandemic ends the reliance on sat, maybe forever, I think the UC schools no longer take them. Many schools no longer take them. It may affect the emphasis on teaching math a certain way in order to get good SAT scores. I would make the case that the purpose of education is not to get a good SAT score. But, you know, what do I know? Of course my math score, SAT score is higher. I don't know how I could remember this because I can't remember people's names. That I met yesterday, but I know I got a 610 in English and a 680 in math. I can remember that 50 years later. So. And that was out of 800. Okay. I don't want you to think it's out of 2700. So I use math daily, but not in a direct way. Software does all that, you know, part for me. So this. Sebastian, this is an interesting observation. So I asked Joe, you know, is it. Is it, quote unquote, cheating or wrong? If students today go to Siri and say, Siri, you know, what's the square root of 81? Or, oh, now everybody's phone all over. I wonder if you did this for. Okay, everybody, if you have an Alexa, we're going to try an Alexa experiment. So, Alexa, what is the Square root of 81? Alexa's thinking. Alexa doesn't have an answer. And my phone is off, so I can't ask Siri. But anyway, the point I'm trying to make is I asked her, so, you know, can you use Siri to do computational math? Can you use Siri to take dictation to, you know, put down your draft to go from oral to text? And she said, absolutely that, you know, just use those tools there, use calculators, use phones, use tools. There's no reason to multiple to, you know, do that by hand the old way and memorize. So there you go. Alexa still hasn't figured out what the square root of 81 is. All right, tips on how to reduce anxiety at work when dealing with data analytics. I. It seems to me that data analytics would be the path or the solution to reducing anxiety, because it seems to me that data analytics would provide you with the tools to understand what is bullshit. And so data analytics can remove bullshit and therefore anxiety. That's the way I would look at it. Okay, Any other questions or comments? Today is my son's 16th birthday, so I'm a little preoccupied because this is the last one. This is the youngest. Do you think that understanding data and statistics is more important than math in your daily life? Well, first of all, you might make the case that depends how you define math. But data and statistics does involve math. But if you're saying, for example, I. Honestly, for me, the amount of math I use in my life is more or less add, subtract, divide, or multiply. I mean, it's, you know, my Speaker's Bureau gets a 20% commission on my fee. So how much is that? You know, Or I just deposited X and I'm going to write a Check for. Yeah. Does Y exceed X? I mean, am I going to be overdraft? I mean, seriously, that's, that's the kind of. Or, you know, like the rough. The rough cut of the podcast is 61 minutes. So, you know, how much do I have to cut off? I mean, it's like. And that's a little simplistic, but that's the kind of math that I do. Or, you know, how long is my surfboard, how many seconds is the ride? I got to tell you, that's the level I'm plus, you know, a four function calculator could do all the math that I ever need. Now, having said that, it's very interesting that if you are interpreting news when Joe Biden says that his goal is 70% of Americans have the vaccine by July 4th, just that statement alone, there's a lot of thinking there. So I think if you're really into statistics and data analytics and your clear analysis, you'll say, so does he mean Everybody has taken 70% of the people have taken two shots or one? Right. So is it one shot puts you into the 70% or do you have to be fully vaccinated two shots? That's question number one. Question number two is, when he says of Americans, does he mean of Americans who are now able to take a vaccine or all Americans, period? Because 70% of the people who are able to take a vaccine, for example, people 12 and older, is very different than 70% of all Americans, which would include babies up to 12. So, you know, what does all Americans mean when he says all Americans? And it's that kind of thing that I think is very important. That's a very important skill to learn these days, more so than solving a quadratic equation. So. But that's just me, maybe. So, yeah, that's where I'm coming from. What advice do you have for parents who have kids that are struggling with math? Yeah, a few months ago we had Sal Khan on here from Khan Academy. And you know, Khan Academy started because his cousin, his cousin was having problems with math. So that's the origin of Khan Academy. So you might check Khan Academy and. Yeah, but I think, I think if the SAT goes away, it's going to be a whole new ballgame for math. Although, you know, there are some people who make the case that SAT is one of the more objective and fair ways to test people, to test kids for college. So that's a good. That's an interesting argument too. Is SAT good or bad? The people who say the SAT is bad Think it's bad because there's a high correlation with your ability to pay for tutoring and getting a good SAT score, as opposed to your intelligence. And so is this something that's, you know, just a form of economic unfairness? So it's not that what you know or your ability. It's just, could you afford a tutor or not? On the other hand, you could say that SAT is somewhat objective. Everybody knows how the score is going to be calculated. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, what else? Well, the comments or thoughts. If math is taught with stories and illustrations, we can overcome fear of mathematics. Pavana. I agree with that. I mean, seriously, if, you know, if you, if you. Let's say my kid wants to buy $1,000 surfboard, right? And I say, all right, so, you know, $1,000 surfboard means that you're going to have to make, I don't know, 12, 50 bucks. Well, my kid is below the minimum tax. So let's say $1,000 surfboard means you got to make a thousand bucks. And a thousand bucks, you know, at $15 an hour working retail, which I found out is what, you know, people working in retail in California make. So $15 an hour, but then you have to do the math. So $15 an hour, but then you need to subtract, you know, tax and Social Security. So what is it Really? I don't know, $10 an hour. So $10 an hour, and then you need a ousand, you need ten thousand of those hours. Excuse me? You need, you need a hundred of those hours to make a thousand dollars to buy your surfboard and, you know, 100. 100 hours. There's only 40 hours in a week. And so you have to do some math. I think that's the level of math that most people use, if that. So I think that's the whole point of Joel's things, like, let's teach math for practical uses. So, yeah, if you're be interesting, it'd be interesting what how math teachers react to Joe's interview, because they could say, oh, thank God, somebody finally, you know, breaking through and telling us and telling the world what to do or how to do it. Or is it heresy what she's saying? I don't know. I don't know. Okay, what else? Any other comments, thoughts? What's your favorite memories from college? I, I'm, I, I, with the caveat that it's academic or any memory from college, because I could get tmi, but I, I went to Stanford and I have to Tell you, those were the happiest days of my life. I love Stanford. I love the. I love playing basketball outside. I love. It was so fun. It was just the best and the brightest. The first thing I figured out when I got to Stanford is like, everybody at Stanford is hot. Everybody at Stanford was, you know, the best in their high school. And then when you go there, this is now. This is 50 years ago. When you go there, you realize that you're not so hot shit. There's. No matter how hot shit you think you are, there's somebody who's more hot shit than you. That's the first thing I learned at Stanford. Speaking of hot, by the way, I need to tell you that this live podcast or this live appearance is sponsored by restream. And the reason why we use Restream is because we are trying to. Well, we're not trying. We actually are streaming this to multiple platforms at once, specifically YouTube, Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook. So we're going out at four or five places at a time using one stream. And. And that is so much better than going to five places using five streams five times. It's 1/5 the work. Duh. So if you are a podcaster or a marketer and you need to reach via live video, multiple platforms at once for efficiency. Restream, baby. Check out Restream. It's a very important tool. And any podcasters quiver. So powered by Restream, you see that in the upper left hand corner? Do you believe organic content is undervalued? Huh? That. That is a deep question. You, you. I mean, in a sense, you're asking, how good do you believe Google is doing at finding organic content and sending it to the people when they do search for organic content? I happen to think Google does a very good job, maybe too good a job. So there's a lot of thought here. So you. You could also be asking, so since you specified by saying organic content, does that mean that you're asking how paid content is doing? Which is, in my mind, the opposite of organic content? This is a deep question. I don't know if I have the answer. I would probably, if you force me to answer based on what I'm guessing you're really asking, I would say that organic content is very well searched and indexed. What else, Muhammad, what was the most creative marketing campaign you've ever done? Well, I didn't do it, but I would say that Apple really did two. One was the 1984 commercial during the announcement of that Macintosh. And of course, the second one would Be the Think different series of commercials featuring Muhammad Ali, Gandhi, Albert Einstein, Amelia Earhart. Know how people who use Macintoshes think different? They're not thinking the same using the same piece of crap Windows or Ms. DOS computer. So think different and 1984 commercial. But again, I didn't run those things. I was just at the company. What happened there? Jeff it flashed too fast for me. What's the most valuable lesson you learned during the pandemic? Time or lockdown? Gabriela the most valuable lesson I learned a lot of lessons about virtual appearances. You're seeing the results of futzing and perfecting video for really about a year. Took me a year to get to this point. So that's one. I also, if you, if we can zoom out a little bit and be less, you know, business oriented. I learned that I hate to travel. I have not gotten on a plane for about 14 months and I cannot tell you with any greater enthusiasm than this that it is bliss if I never get on an airplane again. That would be just fine. Now, funny you should ask. It happens that I am getting on an airplane. So on Monday I'm going to fly to Seattle. And the only reason why I'm flying to Seattle is because I bought a mattress here in Silicon Valley and that mattress was trucked to Seattle. And in Seattle, my friends at Peace vans where I'm an ambassador, they, they take the roof off and they put a pop top roof. They take out the seats. Well actually I sent it without the seats. So they, they add a different kind of seat that can fold flat. So we have a fold flat bed on the, the, the you know, quote unquote bottom level. And then there's a pop up camper on the roof so you could have two sleep above and two sleep below. So you could have four people sleeping in this mattress. And they put USB and power all over the thing so you can sleep anywhere, charge your phone and I didn't get the full, you know, put in the sink and bathroom and shower, all that kind of stuff because I, I hardly ever will sleep overnight in it and much less, you know, be off the grid and try to like take a shower and cook in this. But so they do all that. You, if you, if you are interested in getting a van go to Peacevans.com and you'll, they do a great job. And one of the big advantages of Peace Vans is that when you have your brand new mattress uplifted, as they call this, it does not void the Mercedes warranty. So I don't know if these other shops, custom shops, if they do the work, it voids the warranty, but I can see how it could. So this doesn't peace van doesn't void your warranty. So we got from a long subject here what I learned in the pandemic to, you know, upgrading a metros van. But yeah, so I learned that I hate to travel by air. Melissa, how do you see the future of the convention event industry? 5050 hybrid or in person? Additionally, how do you see the customs service from each? Melissa, I predict that we are going forward to a hybrid model. I cannot see where we're ever going to go back to 100 in person. You know, maybe they record the sessions, maybe they archive them and maybe if you paid the fee that you can see those sessions that. I think that day is gone. So I think the, the world of conventions and media is going to be hybrid. Absolutely. All the way. And now this is an interesting question because, you know, I used to make 50 to 75 speeches a year in person. Zero virtually. Right. So no meeting plan. I wanted a virtual meeting because it's not as, I don't know, impressive, it's not as emotional, it's not as interactive, it's not as engaging, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, no one could do a virtual keynote. And then the pandemic happened and then no one could do an in person one. So every speaker in the world has had to flip their model and I am like perfectly happy this way. And it's a very interesting thing. So if you think about it, if you go to a big event, I would say let's say let's take a room that's set for 10,000, I would say probably the first 20 or 25 rows, they're looking at you on the podium. The rest of the 10,000 people are looking at an image magnification imag. So they're looking at you on screen, you are in the room, but they're not looking at you, they're looking at a screen. So what is the difference between, I don't know, 9,000 of the 10,000 people looking at a screen or a window on a computer or phone than being in the audience looking at a screen? So I think for many people they were virtual at large events. They were virtual in the same room with the speaker. And so now the next question is, well, from a company's perspective, what is a better event? So let's say you're a company and you're doing, I don't know, Canva World or Oracle World or Salesforce World and you could get X people to pay, probably all things included, I don't know, 2500 bucks to come, right? So airfare, hotel, admission, paying 25, 100 bucks. So I don't know, 10,000 people come and they pay 10, 2,500 bucks each in total, not just to the company, but not just for the admission, but admission and everything. Right? So 10,000 people. Now, arguably with a hybrid or virtual, you could have, I don't know, a hundred thousand people come, you could charge less for the event, so you'd have more people coming. Now the downside is you don't have the networking and the personal engagement, all that kind of stuff. I understand that. On the other, on the other hand, if you could get 10x the attendance at 1/10 the price and now you don't have hotel room nights, you don't have to worry about, you know, getting permits, blocking the street, doing all that kind of stuff. You could, you know, if you, if you're getting, I don't know if you're getting Janet Jackson to sing, probably Janet Jackson is cheaper singing virtually than in person. I mean, you know, there's like a lot of ways that a virtual event is a lot easier and can reach more people with less expense. So I cannot see a day where we're all going back to a completely analog in person event. Have you seen any online conventions that did not suck yet? Well, Juan Pablo, I must admit that I never ever go to an online convention from beginning to end. I'm just a speaker at these things. So the answer is no, I have not seen any that. No. I mean, wait, yes. Well, there is no answer there because I don't watch, I don't watch conferences. My focus is Canva and my podcast. So it's, it's not like I'm attending conferences to increase my skill set. I know what I have to do, so I'm not a good person to ask. But if you're asking, if you're, if you're making a statement that all online conferences suck, I would disagree with you. And then I would also tell you that, well, it's not like every in person conference was perfect either. So, you know, let's just getting back to data and interpretation. Yeah. I also want to thank you for Canva. I'm a three person non profit team, autismoklahoma.org and Canva makes us look incredible. Thank you, Stacy. That is, that is just great to hear. That just warms my heart. I hope you're using Canva for good. I don't mean that as. I don't mean that as an exhortation. I mean there's a program called Canva for Good where we really support, not for profits. So that makes me feel great. And I don't really deserve much of the credit for the awesomeness of Canva. I am chief evangelist. This is an outward focus position. The great work is done internally too. The development of Canva and the creation of its functionality and its UI and the selection of stock photos and all that good stuff. That's not me. That's all these people working very hard in Australia and the Philippines and Russia. Not Russia, China. Or maybe Russia too. Yeah. So the credit belongs to the employees of Canva. Alrighty, so any last questions or so. And then we'll get this show on the road. Sarah Beth, thank you. Sarah Beth, love your show. Is it this show you're referring to or the Remarkable People podcast show? I don't care which one, as long as you love something. I do. So, yeah, please go. Remember, this week's guest is an education of is a math education evangelist. Her name is Joe Bowler from Stanford. Just a remarkable guest. You'll learn a lot about education, in particular about math education, but really education in general. You'll enjoy this podcast if you're into education. So with that, today was a real bummer. So I had a. I had to be at a conference. Even though I didn't go on till 8:15, I had to be ready at 7:30 for a tech trek. So I got on at 8:15, I got done at 9 and I got on at this at 9:45 and then the next one is at 12. So basically my whole morning was shot up into chunks. So I couldn't surf this morning. The tide is pretty good in Santa Cruz all day today, but when I'm done at, I don't know, 1 or 1:30, it's like 17 mile per hour wind, so it's going to be too windy to surf maybe. So I'm bummed. But anyway, life's a bitch. So Kate, join my text ohana831-609-0628 and listen to the Remarkable People podcast. This week it's Joe Bowler. Last week it was Martin Lindstrom who talked about, oh really, influence and persuasion and social psychology. And you know, he I'll give you a test question. So go listen to Martin Lindstrom and then be able to answer the question, how do you get chickens to get out of their cage? That was one of the most important lessons. Another Bonus question for you from Martin Lindstrom is how can a straw help your marketing? There you go. Figure that out. Send me a. Send me a text message or email, Guy KAWASAKI Gmail or LinkedIn or Facebook or Twitter, anywhere you want. Okay, two questions for you. So with that, I will bid you a fond adieu and take care. Have a great week. Remarkable. People.com is where those podcast lists. Oh, and one more thing. One more thing. Okay, so actually two more things. Send a text message or message to people who. Who might be involved with math education or are in marketing and sales about Martin Lindstrom. So send them to my podcast. Please become a podcast evangelist. So I said there's two things. What was the other thing? Oh, the other thing is I have made a real, like, tripling down on transcripts. So I think we spend about six hours transcribing every week's interview. We didn't used to do that. We used to. We used to just let the machine do it and then put up whatever it is, figuring whatever it is, it is. But now two human beings, me being one of them, go over basically every word of the transcript. And so I think we have very high quality transcripts because. Well, because I interviewed a woman named Haben Girma who is going to be a guest soon, and she is deaf and blind. And she got me thinking about how I have a moral obligation to help people who are deaf be able to read my podcast. So that. And then I posed this question to Martin Lindstrom in the podcast last week. So, you know, the math is that spending five or six hours per podcast just for the transcription. Just the transcription, not all the other sound editing. If you were to send that out or, you know, really allocate, I pay the other person, obviously, to do this. Cost us hundreds of dollars to write every transcript. And the question is, it seems like there's only a few dozen people who actually listen. I mean, actually read the transcript. So why am I spending so much money to do a transcript that only a few dozen people use? And the answer to that is, because it's a moral obligation. That's why I do it. And just like, you know, you could say, well, why are you. Why do you have a ramp up into your restaurant? Why do you have a ramp into your company? Why do you have whatever to help wheelchair people? You know, there are not that many people in wheelchairs. It's just not cost effective. But the ada, the American Disability act, says you got to do it. And so I don't. There's no 88 ADA act that says you have to transcribe your podcast. But I figure that that's my moral responsibility, so that's why I do it. So if you know any deaf people. I have made a real commitment to good transcripts starting about four weeks back, and then I'm gonna gradually work backwards and get them all done. So. So we're doing current ones forward. That's been about four weeks, and then I'm taking the most popular ones first and transcribing those. It's gonna be a whole summer project, so that's what I'm doing. Okay. So with that, tell deaf people about it. Tell people who want to learn about remarkable people about it, and listen to today's episode, which will tell you how to teach math better. And have a great week. Bye.