Remarkable People Behind the Podcast: How empathy is our social glue

Foreign. Good morning, it's Guy Kawasaki. I hope you're having a good morning. I am. I just got out of the water. I'm in Santa Cruz, California and this is my live broadcast. It's coming to you on, let's see, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube. And the reason why I can be on four platforms at once with one stream is restream. So this live podcast is sponsored by Restream. So if you are somehow using video for your marketing and you want to go live in more than one place at a time, check out Restream. That's the whole purpose of Restream. I actually restream reaches through 30 different social media platforms. I don't know what the other 26 are because four is enough for me. And one of the big advantages of Restream, and you'll see them, is that you can get the comments from the multiple platforms in one place. Because prior to Restream, you know, you'd have to have four windows open and that just ain't gonna work. So. So, yeah, send your comments, send your thoughts, say hello. This week's remarkable people guest is a gentleman named Martin Lindstrom. And he was, I think he was in Switzerland when he did the interview. And he's. He wrote a really important book in my life called Biology B U Y O L O G Y where he explained the principles of why people buy stuff. And so he is kind of a social psychologist. You know, Bob Cialdini was a Swiss accent. Actually, I think he's Danish with a Danish accent. Very interesting stuff. And so the icebreaker question, because in the podcast he told me that he has given up his phone. But wrap your mind around that he has given up his phone. So the question for you is, is it conceivable that you could give up your phone? I. Well, let me tell you why he gave up his phone. He gave up his phone because he found that with his phone he never had periods of boredom and periods of non connectedness. And because he was never not connected and he was never bo. It affected his creativity. So he thinks that without a phone and your ability to, you know, you're in the back of an Uber or something and you're checking your email, you're constantly at it, you're constantly doing busy work, it affects your creativity. So that's why he gave up his phone. I of course, asked him if he had any children because I would be amazed if any parent could truly give up their phone. Every parent wants to give up their phone, believe me. But I'd be amazed if you could give up your phone. So, yes, send. Send an answer. Could you give up your phone? I couldn't. I don't know where my phone is right now. But I, you know, I do. I have. I have a new thing. So I. I must say that I do a lot of live conferences, and I also do a lot of podcast interviewing. And one of the things that I found is that if I have the phone in the same room with me, inevitably somebody from my family texts me or call me. And herein lies the problem, right? So I have about, let's see, maybe five or six people on my emergency list. And I think. I think that when you're on an emergency list, you. You can bust through all the do not disturb silence, all that kind of stuff. And so I swear that I turn on do not disturb. I turn on airplane mode, I turn the ringer to the lowest, I flip the switch on the side of the iPhone, and still I swear I get texts and calls during these recording sessions and live sessions. So somebody gave me this thing, and this thing is a Faraday envelope or something, and it's supposed to be, you know, full of copper wire all over the place. So when you put your phone in here, it should not ring, it should not get a text, it should not do anything, and maybe somebody else can answer this for me, but I swear it still comes through. So you would think that a Faraday box. Now, why, you might ask. Well, why don't you figure out exactly which settings, and then you wouldn't have to put it in this Faraday thing. Well, the thing is, if I could get a working Faraday thing, which just blocks the signal, nothing can come through. The beauty of that is that when the interview is over, I can just take the phone out of the Faraday box, and I don't have to figure out exactly which settings I reversed. So the problem is, if I ever figure out how to truly block all notifications, then I have to figure out how to unblock all notifications. And then the next time I record, I have to figure out how to reblock notifications. I would just like to take my phone and not futz with those settings and. And just put them in a magic Faraday box that just blocks everything. So maybe somebody can help me, but. So anybody. Can you give up your phone? Let's see, Dolly. Sounds like a great reason to give up the phone. I can give up my phone, too. I do phoneless weekends. Wow. Well, Dolly, I have a question for you. Do you have any children. I think that's where you separate the people who can and cannot give up a phone. Now maybe, maybe one spouse could give up the phone. Maybe you could do this. You could alternate. So one spouse has phone duty every other weekend, and then that way one of you is phoneless that I could see working. So, yeah. So anyway, Martin Lindstrup give his own Waleed. I love the idea about giving up my phone, but without my phone, I would not be able to listen to podcasts nor post a response to guys question. That is a good point, Ollie, and I appreciate your. Your loyalty. So one of the key points that Martin made was about giving up his phone and boredom. Another thing is he discussed empathy a great deal. And I would say that he thinks that empathy is the key to marketing. It's the social glue. So agree or disagree. And, you know, I'll tell you a story from the podcast. So he once had a large pharmaceutical client, and the pharmaceutical client wanted to get, quote unquote, closer to his customer. And so he, he went along with the client and met some of the patients who use the company's treatments and they treat asthma. And so he met a woman who was a patient, and he got into a conversation with her, and she talked about how she had kind of turned her life around and she is now coping much better. And he asked her, you know, how did you do this? And she apparently carries a bunch of straws with her. And whenever she meets someone and, you know, sort of gets into it and wants to, you know, foster understanding and closeness or whatever, she gives the person a straw and tells the person to breathe through the straw. Because apparently if you have asthma, it's like breathing through a straw. So this has been her superpower. So that's how she, you know, has people understand what she's going through. So what Martin did is he took the executives from this pharmaceutical company and put them in a room and gave them a straw and told them they had to breathe through the straw. And, you know, the first executive gave up in a fury after 30 seconds. So 30 seconds is not exactly a lifetime of asthma. And so I thought that was a great story about empathy. So, you know, I, you know, I'd love to hear. Do you have any great stories of empathy that it's clear that a company has understood its customer and empathizes and has taken steps? So, yeah, think of an example of great empathy. Another key concept of Martin, he has created a not to do list because he noticed that his creativity was decreasing during the pandemic and so he created this kind of list of should and shouldn't do and does do and doesn't do. And he found out that he spends a lot of his time doing stuff that he thinks he shouldn't do. Major culprit is YouTube. So he apparently spent a lot of time watching random YouTube videos that really didn't add to his life. Now we're not talking TedX or Ted videos. We're talking, you know, I don't know. He said Ellen DeGeneres show highlights. So he has created a not to do list for himself. So another question for you is have you created a not to do list? That would be interesting too. So anybody got any not to do stories that or not to do list? That would be, I think fascinating. So not to do. Not to do. Everybody has a to do list. I want to know if you have a not to do list. What would be on my not to do list? God. You know, I, I have to confess that I binge watch. I mean I binge watch Netflix. If, if Netflix didn't exist, I think I could podcast twice a week. Well, it's easy for me to say Jeff and Peg are throwing up right now, but I binge watch Netflix. The last thing that I binge watch was Queen of the South. And Queen of the south is a four season series, 13 episodes per season. So there's like 52 episodes that I watched. And it is about the drug cartel in Sinaloa and Dallas and Miami and New Orleans and how this woman becomes a drug cartel boss and replaces another woman. If you want to see a violin movie with strong lead women characters, Queen of the south is the is the series for you, baby. So second time Atif heard about a not to do list today. I hope that listening to this live broadcast or my podcast is never on your not to do list. But that's interesting. Great minds think alike. So yeah, not to do. What other comments or questions do you have for me? Oh yes, I have a text based kind of extended OHANA system is first. It's only available to U.S. and Canadian numbers. That's because of all the laws of privacy. This company hasn't figured out how to do other countries. So if you text me at 831-609-0628 you'll go through a process of just authenticating and joining this. And then I send out group texts like announcing that I'm going live, announcing a new episode. So that goes one to many. If you respond to me, that's now one to one If I respond to you, it's one to one. So it starts off one to many and then proceeds one to one. So that's my. That's my text family all alf. I actually dedicated one quarter of my day to watching YouTube videos for Tesla entrepreneurship investing at all. And I rarely watch junk. Well, I hate to tell you, but some people may say watching YouTube about Tesla is junk. But I digress. And if you're a Tesla fan, you will love a past episode. A couple. I don't know if it was it last week or the week before of a guy named Rich Benoit. And Rich Benoit, man, is, I gotta tell you, this is one of the funniest episodes ever. So what Rich Benoit did is he was either too poor or too cheap to buy a Model S. And so on a wrecked car site, he found a Model S that had been, quote, unquote, water damaged, which actually meant that the water came up to the window and it was salt water. So this Tesla Model S was just totally ruined. So he bought it for $14,000 and he decided that he was going to rebuild it. And he's not a mechanic. He's not trained in auto repair, much less electric car auto repair. So he buys this car for 14 grand and he decides to fix it. He has a tow to his house and he begins the process. And the first thing he discovers is that Tesla will not sell you parts. You have to be, you know, an authorized Tesla dealer or repair center or whatever. You can't go to AutoZone or Pep Boys and buy, you know, he has a story about just buying a cover for a boat. You can't even buy a cover for a bolt, much less the bolt, much less a new motor or actuator or, you know, whatever you need. So then he has to start buying other damaged Teslas to cannibalize them. And it becomes a whole story. And then he talks about he's created a car called the ICE T. I stands for internal combustion engine Tesla. So he's taken a wreck to Tesla and he's putting in a V8. This is the concept of LS swap. LS is a series of Chevy V8 engines. And I don't know if he's putting in an actual. I think that the concept of LS swap has extended from the specific Chevy engine block series LS series to basically the general concept of doing engine swaps. So he's doing an LS swap, putting a V8 into a Tesla. And they just started it a couple weeks ago. Started a fire. But I digress so, anyway, what other comments or questions do you have, Ben? I think the habit that's to be desired is using a phone in the right places at the right time for the right outcome. Everything else can be a waste of time. Well, Ben, it's hard to argue against that logic. Yeah, two complications here, like what exactly is right and then how do you stop yourself from doing what's wrong? So, in a glimpse into my total rationalization of my personality. So I am a heavy consumer of news and I use Google, I use Google News and I use smart news. And then I'm always trying to find news to reshare on social media because I view my role on social media as not so much a creator as, as a curator. So I like to find news that I think other people should read. If you look at my LinkedIn feed, for example, it's basically all reshared. There's very little stuff that I create in social media so I can justify being in a newsreader all day long because that's my fundamental function on social media. Now, why am I on social media so much? There's two purposes. One is I think I have a moral obligation to resist to, you know, try to prevent the end of democracy, try to prevent the end of our environment. So I use my social media towards those moral ends. I also am trying to be a valuable social media platform so that people follow me, so that I can also promote my podcast, my book, Canva Restream. Pretty soon I'm going to start a relationship with Rackspace. I used to be a Mercedes Benz brand ambassador. So, you know, there's a handful of companies that I work with, so I like to earn the right to promote them by providing a valuable social media platform of curation. So that's my thinking. Whether you agree with it or not is a different issue, but that's my thinking. So, yeah, again, let's see. Guy, instead of a Faraday cage or phone, why not? Why don't you just turn it off? You know, the simplicity of that is very good. Well, for one thing, it takes so long to turn off an iPhone. Another is it takes a long time to start of an iPhone. But I guess I don't have my phone here. We could time how long it takes me to turn off a phone and turn on a phone, but. Yeah, good point. Touche. Good point. I, I could just do that. But then if my wife says, you know, your phone wasn't on, I can say, no, honey was on. I just won't say, honey was on. In a Faraday cage. How's that for rationalization? All right, any more comments or questions? Remember Martin Lindstrow, released 6:30am this morning. If you want to learn about psychology and biology and empathy and marketing and, and greater efficiency and innovation, check it out. Oh, Jeff, I didn't see that question. Sorry. Mitra, how do you know when you should give up on your business idea versus keep trying? Mitra, there is no good answer to that because for every example of a person who pivoted and changed the business, there is an example of someone who believed against a lot of negativity and naysaying and continued to do what he or she believed in, despite all the negativity and naysaying. So I wish there was a really good reason or a really good method to figure out pivot or give up. I don't know the answer to that question. And it's very hard to really make a good decision because I don't think there are. I don't know of any, like, objective, statistically valid scientific studies. You only hear about the ones that succeeded. Basically, you don't hear that much about the ones that failed. So if you were to look at the business literature, you know, Google started as a consulting firm and pivoted and, you know, but FedEx refused to give up and kept at it. And so that's like, okay, so which story do you believe? Right there. Just like right there. FedEx or Google? Apple. Apple obviously didn't pivot. It kept in personal computing. Maybe it's a semi pivot to go to iOS, but you'd have to say that Apple stuck with its vision of proprietary platform, you know, not wide open, not licensed from Microsoft, et cetera, et cetera. So Apple, in my mind, did not pivot. Okay, so do you do the Apple route or do you pivot it? Who knows? This is a very long, very long explanation for me to tell you. I don't know. I don't think there is a foolproof way. The way it works in Silicon Valley is we throw a lot of crap up against the wall, some of it sticks, and then we paint the bullseye around the crap that's stuck and we declare victory. So don't think that we know going in either. We don't know. We just. We just like to highlight our successes and forget our losses or blame them on other people. So what else, Michael? What do you see as the next upcoming hot business in the next two or three years? Michael? I get two answers in a row. I have to tell you, I Don't know. I don't think anybody can predict what's going to be hot in two or three years. Because I mean, look, let's go back two or three years right now and say, okay, so how many of us predicted anything? So you know, go find me the expert visionary who said that social audio would be a new market, that there's going to be a product called Clubhouse and that's going to be going viral. Of course it's not clear that Clubhouse will be successful yet. So you could make a prediction now. You know, predict the future of Clubhouse in two years. Go ahead, make my day. I want to see what you say. So I think that two or three years is way too long that, you know, let's take a good example. Two or three years. Send a comment. What's your prediction for the sales of Ford F150 electric trucks in two years? I could make the case that the introduction of the Ford 150 electric truck is the turning point of electrification of cars. That instead of people buying cars that are made by Tesla and you have to be a venture capitalist, you have to be a private equity, you have to be investment banker, you have to live in California, you have to be a liberal, you know, now There's a Ford 150 electric truck coming, 400 mile range, 0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds There's a frunk. So where the engine would be in a gas car, there's now a frunk. So you carry a lot of stuff up front and it's I don't know, 40, 50, 60 grand depending on the configuration. Ford must be losing money on each one. But Anyway, so for 60 grand, well, you wrap your mind around this. For 60 grand you get a truck, full size truck that might be going 400 miles on a charge with a frunk. And obviously a truck bed, zero to 60 in four and a half seconds, totally quiet and, and you can make it reverse the charging. It can send power into your house when you lose power. So it can, it can effectively be the battery for your house. Like wrap your mind around that. So two or three years from now, like right now, apparently they have about 75,000 orders. I don't know if that means you put a 50 deposit or you really gonna. All those things are going to turn into real sales. So two or three years from now you predict he tell me Ford 150 has it wiped out internal combustion engine, Ford 150s or is it a flash in the pan? And only west coast liberal venture capitalist truck drivers have Bought it. I don't know, I. If you ask me, I think it's the tipping point for electric cars. I mean, this is it. Tesla wasn't it? Tesla started the parade, but Ford 150 is the one that hammered it home. Because when your local contractor and you're, you know, car hard wearing, not to be too stereotyped, when your car hard wearing contractor is using an electric truck that goes 400 miles, which, how many contractors go 400 miles to a job? Or 200 each way, that's kind of amazing. This is like one big ad for Ford. I should be a Ford brand ambassador. Anyway, I have to say, speaking of that, you know, it's. It's amazing to me. Let me go on a rant for a second. It is amazing to me that in 2021 you cannot go into a Mercedes dealer and buy an electric car. Like, how is that possible? 2021, Tesla has been doing it for, I don't know, what, 10 years? How is that even possible, man? Anyway, what was that comment or question that flashed up? Because, okay, Nidhi, you talked about curated and created content for product marketers and content marketers. How is important to share relevant content along with the original content they create? Well, in my case, I just happen to believe that, you know, fundamentally there are two roles on social media and as a business. And so this is how my thinking goes. My thinking goes that like NPR or Wikipedia, who raised tens of millions of dollars by donations, the reason why they're successful with that is because they have provided. So people feel that they need to reciprocate, they need to pay back Wikipedia and npr. And so I call this the Wikipedia or NPR model. So my model for social media is you provide something so valuable that people feel the need to reciprocate. There are two ways to provide something so valuable. One is to create content. This could be great video, it could be great explanation, it could be, you know, original thought. God help you. So that's creation. There's also curation where you find that article in Real simple, or you find that article in Newsweek, or you find that article in the Washington Post or the New York Times or, you know, in Medium, that that just adds value. It's informative, it's valuable opinion, it's entertaining. Whatever it is, somehow it provides value. So I, I have, I expend so much effort into podcasting and the editing of my podcast. I spend about four or five hours per episode. That's just the editing. I also spend two or three hours preparing. So I spent so much time in podcasting that I have nothing creative left over. Oh, and then I also make a speech or two a week, which takes some creativity. So basically I have no creativity left. So I can only curate, I cannot create, I don't have anything left. So that's how I work. But I'm trying to have social media streams that provide value so that I earn the right to tell people about my podcast and the, my books and Canva and you know, whoever I'm representing. Oh, the remarkable tablet company that sponsors the remarkable people come up podcast or Restream, so and soon Rackspace. So that's my thinking, for better or for worse. What else? Cindy, what has your attention now instead of what is the next big thing? Cindy? So my attention right now, honestly as a person getting to be very individual is Canva, my podcast surfing and being a father like right there, that's a full time job right there. So that I didn't exactly, I didn't ex, not necessarily in that order. But being a father, surfing, podcasting in Canva takes up all my. Oh, but I also speak. So speaking says five things I'm doing. That's the five things I'm doing. Paper notebook or tablet? Did somebody put you up to ask that question? So I use a remarkable tablet and my use case for the remarkable tablet is that I, I in a Google Doc, as I do research, I write all the questions I'm going to ask a guest. Then I print that to PDF and I sync that PDF to my remarkable tablet. And then during an interview, I'm holding my remarkable tablet and I'm taking notes and I'm, you know, drawing circles around stuff I don't want to miss and I'm adding notes so that I, I can be sure to ask a question that follows up on a certain topic and all that so I could actually upload, you know what happens, you know, you could see my notes for every given episode. So that's my use case. And I also think psychologically that as a podcaster and even just an attendee in a meeting, the perception that you are typing is a negative. Because why in a podcast for sure you don't want the clacking, but the, the concept that you are reading a document or taking notes during a podcast recording or even just a zoom or teams conference call is a negative. Because I think most people's mind goes from, ah, he's reading something, he's typing equals he's checking his email and social media. Whereas if you're seeing holding a remarkable tablet and writing notes with the remarkable pencil. The perception is much more positive. The perception is, huh, he's taking notes. He's showing me respect. He must think what I'm saying is important and valuable and smart. And I think that is a much better impression to give. Thanks then that asshole is answering email while I talk. So that's power tip number one. How to look remarkable in a zoom call. Show people you are taking notes. What else? Estella, do you think that Wikipedia is relevant considering the sources of his content? Estella? Absolutely, positively, 100%, yes. I would say that Wikipedia may be the best source of information in the world. And now let me tell you why. Well, first of all, the way Wikipedia works. And by the way, I interviewed the former executive director of Wikipedia. That's an upcoming episode, in fact, maybe next. I think it's in two weeks. It's in two weeks. And so if I were, if I were you, well, that's a little assumption. But I think that Wikipedia entries for any given topic are as unbiased and accurate as anything in the world. And, you know, you could take two extremes. And one extreme is, I don't know, like Bright Bart and Fox versus the Times and the Post. So, you know, they're about how, how wide can I make my hands and still be seen? They're that far apart, right? And so I think that Wikipedia is kind of in the middle. And so if I were, if I wanted to look up something, my first stop is Wikipedia, I hate to tell you. And now you may be. What may underlie your question is the assumption that, quote unquote, anybody can post anything. And that is simply not true. The rules of Wikipedia are that you have to have a valid citation to a journalistic source and that, you know, a hot topic like, you know, you couldn't go to Joe Biden's Wikipedia entry and say that, I don't know, he's operating a prostitution ring out of a pizza parlor. You know, there are so many people watching Joe Biden's and Planned Parenthood and, you know, whatever, 2020 elections, whatever. You can't just go up there and say, all right, so, you know, Planned Parenthood is selling baby parts that just. That just wouldn't work. So, you know, like, I've had teachers of my kids in teacher conferences tell me, you know, we don't let our kids cite Wikipedia. And I asked them why, and they say, well, because anybody can post anything. So A, that's not true. And then B, if you think about it, so you're telling that My kid can cite Fox for their analysis or description of Planned Parenthood, but cannot cite Wikipedia. Like, they could cite Breitbart, but not Fox, but not. Excuse me, they could cite Breitbart, but not Wikipedia. And if you're a conservator, you'd say, so my kid can. You're telling me that, you know, my kid can cite Jeff Bezos Libtard Washington Post, but not Wikipedia? I mean, the argument works both ways. Anyway, a very long answer to your question that, yes, I completely, utterly trust Wikipedia. I think Wikipedia could be the single best source of news in the world. You know how I really feel now. What else? Ben, you mentioned that you focus on what you're focused on right now. What's the driving force between your focus on making great podcasts? Do you feel like you have a moral conviction to be a great father for the public? Well, I'll answer the second one. I don't have a moral conviction to be a great father for the public. I have a moral conviction to be a great father for my kids. I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to be Charles Barkley and be a role model. So. So why am I obsessed with podcasting? I don't know. I just think that podcasting is a mechanism for me to leave. Well, we have to go back a little deeper. So if one were to ask me, so, you know, what's your mantra, guy? Why do you exist? I would say that the reason why I exist, my entire being, is to empower people. I want to empower people with my podcasts, my writing, my speaking, my live conferences on social media. I want to empower people. Podcasting is an extremely great way to. To empower people. So that's why I interview remarkable people and try to get them to explain how they became remarkable, what is remarkable, and how people can be remarkable. So I think that is. That's my calling. That's my moral obligation. You know, Greta Thunberg can fly, fight climate change, and I can help people become more remarkable. We each have a role, not that I'm Greta Thunberg's equal, and so that's why. And also podcasting, it really appeals to my detail orientation, perfectionist, OCD nature. And so, you know, let me explain. So, you know, so for an episode like with Martin Lindstrom, I had to review or read a few of his books. I had to watch him in action video. I had to, you know, do background research on him and all that kind of stuff just to formulate the questions. So that's let's say two hours, three hours. The interview is an hour, but really it's an hour and a half when you add in the stuff at the beginning and the end. And then I probably spent three hours doing the sound editing. And then Jeff C. Spent another five hours doing sound editing. And then Pig Fitzpatrick probably spent another five hours putting all the marketing together, you know, getting it in the final format, uploading to. Uploading all the art to Simple Cast, doing all that kind of stuff. So there's probably a good 15 or 16 hours per hour of podcast. And I will tell you, if any of you are podcasters out there, you probably think I'm nuts. Now, to go back, I love this analogy. A few weeks ago, I had Mark Manson. Mark Manson is the person who wrote the Subtle art of Giving a fuck or not giving a fuck. Sorry. And he had a great concept. I just love this concept, which is, you know, you found your passion, you know, you found your calling when you like the shit sandwich that it involves. So let me explain. So he thinks that, for example, he writes every day. And some people, you know, think, oh, my God, you know, how can you eat that shit sandwich of writing every day? Thousand, two thousand, three thousand words. But he loves it. That's what he does. That's his shit sandwich that he loves. So my shit sandwich that I love is editing my podcast. And so I spend three or four hours editing each hour of my podcast, and I spend two or three hours preparing for each podcast. I don't just, like, read the Wikipedia entry, even though I just told you what group site Wikipedia is. I don't just read the Wikipedia entry and then, you know, make up on the fly for an episode. So, you know, I have five, six, seven, eight hours into episode each episode, and that's my sandwich. Many podcasters will tell you to. There's just, like, insane what I do, but that's what I do. So that's podcasting for me. That's why you should definitely go check out Remarkable People, because there is a lot of effort in those episodes. Amy, do you feel participating in podcasts delivers more credibility or brand value than, say, interviews in Forbes or the Wall Street Journal or other traditionally mainstream? Well, Amy, honestly, it depends on whose podcast. So if you're in an NPR podcast, arguably, there's no more credible source than that. So. And I also. I think the question may be framing suboptimally, shall I say. So it's. It's not as if, you know, you have a choice and you say, well, you know, I could be on NPR or I could be in Forbes, or I could be in the Wall Street Journal or I could speak in TEDx. Which should I do? Because all of them want me. Let me tell you something. If all of them want you, you do them all. Because the Wall Street Journal and Forbes are going to reach a certain group of people, and your podcast is going to reach a certain group of people, and NPR is going to reach a certain group of people. So there is no, like, you know, in the venture capital business, lots of entrepreneurs ask me a question like, should I take angel money or should I take venture capital money? Well, I hate to tell you, idiot, but you know, you are not going to have the option of saying, ah, should I take venture capital or should I take angel? You'll be lucky to get any money. So this concept that you're gonna decide now whose money you're gonna take, you're delusional. You're gonna be so desperate for money, you're gonna take anybody's money. So let's just like, don't waste my time with that stupid theoretical question, Mr. Entrepreneur or Ms. Entrepreneur. And so the answer to your question is do them all, do them all, and, you know, sort it out later. Just say yes. What else? Does Steve Jobs used to put stickers on his MacBook? Aman? I don't know. It's not like he showed me his MacBook. If I were to guess, I would say no because he would probably think that putting a sticker on his beautiful MacBook is desecration. That would be my guest. That's a pretty good guess too. Ben. Thank you for answering my question, guys. Hard to remember just how much time it takes to produce a great podcast. It's a full time job. I don't know if it's a full time job, but it is a lot of work. It's not. On the other hand, I don't know how much work Joe Rogan puts into a podcast, but hey, I have Joe Rogan envy. I wish I had his audience. Anyway, how about one more question or comment and then we'll let you go for a great Wednesday. So what else? How we see our future at work, from home or from the office. I think that Martin, actually Martin, in today's podcast, had a great comment. He said we should stop thinking about going back to work. We should be thinking about going forward to work. And what he meant by that is back to work implies that we're going to go back to our old constant meetings, constant conferences, flying to Las Vegas for conferences, doing all that. That would be back to the old way because now everybody has a vaccine. Well, hey, not everybody has a VACC vaccine. So he. His perspective is we should be thinking forward to work, which is knowing what we know, seeing the changes, seeing how zoom has improved or not, teams improved or not, virtual conferencing improved or not, podcasting improved or not, you know, all this great stuff, seeing has how there have been changes and online education, not online education. You know, all this stuff. How do we go forward to school? How do we go forward to work? Taking the best of what was in the past and what we learned in the past pandemic and applying it going forward as opposed to going back, which is basically going back to how it was before. I don't think we're going back to how it was before. At the very least, we're going back to a hybrid model. Okay, so it has been 44 minutes and I hope that. Excuse me. I hope you join my ohana text group 831-609-0628 and for sure you download my podcast. It is Martin Lindstrom this week and he will talk to you about empathy and marketing and why you should get rid of your phone, why it's good to be bored because it makes you creative and how to create a not to do list just like he did. And that'll make you more remarkable. So that's it. I'm Guy Kawasaki. My thanks to you. This live session was sponsored by restream. So if you want to be in multiple places at once with one stream, Restream is the way to go. Powered by restream. And with that, I bid you a fond aloha and mahalo. Thank you for joining me. Bye.