Remarkable People Behind the Podcast: How to build a great corporate culture

Foreign.

Hello, everybody. I'm Guy Kawasaki. I am the. What am I? The host. Host. Host. That's the word I'm searching for. Four letter word. I am the host of the Remarkable.

You are a four letter word. Guys.

A lot of times to Peg, you are so.

Yeah, right. I am the host of the Remarkable People podcast and it's Wednesday morning and we have a new episode. I am joined here by the producers, co hosts, whatever, Peg Fitzpatrick and Jeff C. Behind every success, behind every successful podcaster are amazed and amazing people. So these are the amazed and amazing people. So this week's guest was Rob Chestnut. No tea in there. Rob Chestnut. Correct. And he, he was the chief ethics officer of Airbnb and had also a very senior position at. Oh my God. Where, where was it? Pig? At ebay. Yes, ebay. Also in ethics. As well as he served a few stints as legal counsel. And the topic of this entire podcast is about ethics in business, which for some people is an oxymoron, but we won't go down that path. So the ice breaking question, because ethics in business comes down to, frankly, the culture of your company. So tell us about the strong corporate culture in your company. And I must admit, it could be strong good or strong bad. So yeah, send us comments about the strong. What does a strong corporate culture look like? I work for Apple that has a very, very strong corporate culture. And I have to say at the end of my career, now that I'm at Canva, that too has a very strong corporate culture. Almost the opposite of what it was like working in the Mac division. But I won't go there.

I was going to say Canva's more of the modern model of not Facebook, but they do a lot of wellness and for good, they really take care of people that work in the office. They have a chef, they, they feed people a lot. Which in the US I think that was cut from, from Trump said, no more feeding all your people. It's not a write off to feed people anymore. So no more free.

Yeah, yeah, not anymore.

So I don't know about that little Facebook. Facebook has. Wow. Like a really great. It's like going to the mall and there's, it's like a food court. It's like a food court. They have nail and you can go. I remember one Friday we were there, they had like margaritas and nachos, like after work, it's like, okay, so canvas along that model of, you know, nurturing their employees.

Except we don't, we don't support racism.

No. So so when you say nevermind, and.

I know people are going to be, I know you didn't maybe want to go down this path, but when we talked about corporate culture and the question was what does a strong corporate culture look like? And you mentioned Apple at the beginning, so were you saying that Apple had a negative strong corporate culture or because they innovated? So what did you mean by that?

Well, there's a lot of pluses in mind as with Apple. So Apple has a very strong corporate culture and it was obviously led by Steve Jobs. And I think to this day the DNA of Apple is Steve Jobs DNA along with Steve Wozniak's. And so there's pluses and minuses, a quest for innovation, a quest for elegance, demanding of great results. But it's, it's also a little bit, you know, I think it's a little bit too closed and a little bit paranoid. I would say that Apple, you know, you know, there's always the quote unquote, oh, I don't want to get in trouble with people who are underweight. But there's always the example of the 98 pound weakling and you know, sand kicked in his or her face and then he or she goes and starts lifting weights and conditioning and all that. And now it's not 98 pounds but it's like a rock solid 195 pounds ripping muscle. CrossFit poster boy or poster girl. And yet deep inside of this 98 pound weakling, which is now 195 pound muscle man or muscle woman, still lurks the psyche of a 98 pound weakling. And so I think that's a little bit of Apple. You know, when Apple just goes off the rails when somebody says something negative or there are such control freaks and you know, they, I don't know, I just, I just think that Apple has not taken the next step and has become what I say is a mensch. M E N S H that's the next step in corporate culture. App Apple is not a mensch company. It's a highly, highly successful luxury brand. But I would not say it's a mensch.

Don't you think that it was kind of a culture of fear when Steve was there? Because everybody was just like afraid. That's like not a nurturing environment. I mean people, people did pull out innovation and creativity, but not because it was nurtured and well appreciated. Maybe, I don't know if it was appreciated, but.

Here is a powerful motivator. But let's not talk about Apple. Let's Talk about Rob Chestnut, right?

So Airbnb is actually a very interesting company. Ethically, they've done some good things during the pandemic. And I think that they try to have a strong corporate culture. And obviously it was important enough for them to take their general counsel and have that switch to a corporate ethics officer or chief ethics officer. So I think there's been enough, like, uber bad examples where, you know, now companies are like, we don't want that to be us, because it can really be the downfall of your company if your CEO makes a huge faux pas. Like, not just faux pas, but ethical error.

So here's a question from Marcel over at YouTube, and I think this will tie into even some of our questions later on. And it's not. Let me pull it up. But he says, you casually mentioned a lot of perks that people have in the office. How would you build a great culture in a company where everybody works remotely?

Well, if you were Canva, Marcel, they actually tried to transfer a lot of those things to people at home. And I mean, I'm not saying everybody has the budget that Canva did. And Canva, to be honest, when they started, did not have a budget. It was probably Melanie and Cliff getting lunch from Melanie's mom in the kitchen, because that's where they started. But when, when Guy and I first started, we were like employees, like 20 and 21, something like that at Canva, and they had a chef that came in and made lunches and things like that. When it turned, when it was the pandemic and everybody had to be at home, they actually started letting people order food and they were doing the same types of things. But they are a very unique company because during the pandemic, they exploded because everybody needed graphics more than they did before. Everybody needed presentations and, you know, so their business really. I mean, it's a harsh way to say it, but, like, they profited from the pandemic. There's some, you know, if you sold toilet paper or hand sanitizer. Yeah, you did well, if, if it was. So. So I think, how do you switch things like that for. In the office to match up at home? So you could. You could do. Let people pay for fitness classes. You have wellness because they used to do things in the office so you could pay for people's peloton memberships and let them write them off, you know, and just to let your employees know that health and your mental wellness is important, team building, you could do team building things online. So Canva did, did switch all of Their things and they switched to. I think you only have to be in once a year. Was that the thing I saw now they switch to at home all the time. I think you only have to go in like a couple times a year. But their office now is. Yeah, you're late now. But they do things like stand up meetings and those would be in person and then it was like remote. People came in because I used to do the stand up meetings from New Hampshire and they were all in Sydney and so I think that they do those smaller in teams. So they do video things and team building and. Yeah, and Zach is amazing. So he's. Well, he's head of marketing now. He was head of people. So I'm sure that they had a lot of great stuff going on.

Well, the other thing, just to put a little dash of reality here, is I caution people that if you have a bad corporate culture, whether it's negative or boring or whatever, it is starting to give people free lunches and ping pong tables and workout classes and yoga classes and certificates for yoga classes. That's not going to fix the problem. Fundamentally, Canva is great because they make a great product and they are obsessed with making Canva even better. If you have that and then you throw the free lunches and ping pong tables and yoga and all that. Yes, then it really explodes. But you know, if you have a crappy company with a crappy product and you throw all those perks on it, you'll just have fat, happy people. That's. That's not the goal.

And also, you can't just have perks and off sites.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we know a company like that. We know a company like that would go to South Africa and Tahiti. They take the whole staff like three or four times a year. Right, Peggy? And this is as they were losing money because they had to all get together and figure out how not to lose money. Well, it may be that you just shouldn't spend half a million bucks taking everybody to Tahiti. Well, dumb. But anyway, tell us how you really feel.

So corporate culture is, you know, and then the ethics. Going back to the, the topic of the podcast and how that comes from the top, you know, I think Apple is innovative that way. They're inclusive with Tim Cook, you know, being one of the first out gay, you know, top CEOs, which I think was amazing. Ethics. I don't know. It's tough though. I mean, you look at, I think this year our examples of ethics for leaders would be Jeffrey and. Yeah. And Bill Gates. Who? I mean, come on.

So, by the way, if you're interested in this podcast, you guys can go right here.

What a concept.

Look at that. You can just hold up your handy dandy phone from Apple or Google and put it up there and you can go and leave us a rating and review. That really helps us out. But you could follow us with the podcast right there and get this latest episode that we're talking about. So if you haven't done that yet, make sure you guys go there and check it out and leave us a rating and review. So very, very cool. This leads right to our second question. Peg is. And Guy kind of teased this at the very beginning. I did. Is corporate ethics an oxymoron?

What do you think, Guy?

Well, I mean, mathematically, you almost have to say for large companies, it could be. I mean, if someone said to you, okay, think of some examples of truly ethical companies, companies that, you know, you just, you admire for what they do. Somebody asked me that question. I only have one answer. Well, besides Canva, but I'm conflicted there. So I only have one other answer, which is Patagonia. Like, I can't think of another example besides Patagonia and Canva.

Now, are you saying that because of their, like, return policy and their repair policy and their system, all of the.

Above, their, their, you know, climate concerns, their anti Trump stance there, or there's another spice company called Pelzis or something like that that took a strong stance.

Gabriella Hearst is a fashion designer who is very sustainable. She just, I think she's working with Chloe now, but she does her own brand and she is extremely sustainable. And in the fashion industry, you know, there's the ethics that way, where it's like you can get something cheap and inexpensive, but it's at the cost of a lot of other people's lives. You know, factories are, you know, collapsing and horrible things.

We should have a guest come on about ethical clothing.

We should. That would be amazing.

What a great idea, Peg.

So I feel that is a corporate ethical issue, though. And that's the, I mean, that's the example that you brought up is Patagonia that they're, you know, they'll return. You can return things. Levi's actually is doing a lot for sustainability because jeans are one of the big water and dye problems in the fashion industry. And you can return any Levi's. And they have this program where they're remaking them. They'll read. They either resell them because old Levi, you know, Levi's, I Gotta show you something.

You make guy leave again, Peg.

Sorry. And yeah, so they'll either remake them into other things. Eileen Fisher is another brand that does that too. They'll repair and resell. So it's nice that. I mean, it's a little bit different ethical topics than the podcast talks about, because that's more like the leader's ethics.

So I would say it would be chewy.com for the pet stuff because they give so much away for, you know, if, if, you know, they send you something bad, they'll send it to a local dog shelter. And I would say another. When you talked about return policies, it made me think about. I think it's Casper or some of the other ones. Like if you, you. They all have that. They all have that. Not Casper. But it may have been.

It is Casper. Casper Mattresses is the biggest lie on the Internet because we got one and it.

So I, I didn't get Casper, but these people had the same policy is like if you have a 90 day sleep window or whatever, you can test it and if you don't like it, they don't throw it away. They take it and give it to like a shelter or something like that, which I thought was very, very cool. So that it's not, well, Casper, you.

Can return it within 30 days. But you know, it's a total pain in the behind.

So Peg doesn't like Casper, so they're not going to be a sponsor because our bag sucks.

Malcolm Gladwell says he loved Casper. What are you guys talking about? So you may wonder why I just disappeared because we're talking about Levi.

I think I know what, What?

Tell me, what am I going to.

Show something from Beth?

Well, I mean, that defines almost everything in this house. So that's.

Well, Beth used to work at Levi's.

Okay. But what. Okay, so.

Okay, go ahead. I didn't get that.

We're. We're consolidating and moving a house right now. And so, man, you'd be amazed at the. You find after living in one house for six, 60 years now. 30 years. So look at this. Look at what I found.

Oh, is that one of yours that you wore?

That was probably. Was that. No, Amy's.

This, this is, this is before I went on the. The carb diet, but yeah, look at.

This, look at this.

So, yeah, I'm saving it for my first grandchildren.

Yeah.

Oh, that's cool.

I'm just hoping my first grandchild doesn't come from my youngest kids, but you.

Can have all day long. That is really cute. I thought you were going to show something from Beth because she. I know she used to.

Well, it is from Beth in a sense.

Yeah.

I'm sure it'd be better if he would have walked on wearing it. But anyway, so our second question is this Scott Galloway.

Kawasaki.

Oh, boy. What leaders do you feel have strong ethics? Now, we didn't say positive or negative. We just said strong. So if you say strong, does that mean that they have. They have ethics or good ethics or. What were you thinking?

I was saying positive ethics. Like what. Who. Who exudes good ethics? Like so.

Well, Eve Chouinard, obviously.

Who?

Eve Chouinard, the Patagonia founder.

Got it, Got it.

Yeah, there's. There's a guy who's been in the. The news lately, Dan Price. He's. He's the guy who did the Gravity Payments, where he took a pay cut and by a million dollars and gave each of his. Everybody in their. In his company makes at least $70,000 a year. So that's what. Yeah, that's what I think is like, okay, that guy's practicing what he's preaching. He didn't. He didn't really go. And it wasn't a PR stunt. He did it. And then people talked about it from the company, thinking how cool it was. So that's the one that's on my mind right now. Yeah.

Yeah. They did a study and they showed that people. At 75,000 is the amount where people. Your happiness does not increase if you make more than 75,000 and they double.

Their number of employees. And they found that it works because everyone says he's gonna go bankrupt and all this stuff and, like, it's thriving. So it's.

We should ask Gravity Payments. We should ask someone like Jen Lim about happiness because she is the author of Delivering Happiness. Why don't we book her Pig?

No, she's of Beyond Happiness.

Oh, Beyond Happiness. Well, first she delivered it and then she went beyond it.

Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, we have a lot of good. A lot of. We've had so many great guests that they're. They're crossing over now. I would say Gabriella Hearst, which I just mentioned, and Eileen Fisher is another one who you know, and Stella McCartney was way before anybody else because her parents were both big vegans making things.

I'm 0 for 3 there. I don't know who those three people are. Jeff, how about you?

Okay, Stella McCartney is Paul. Paul McCartney.

And Linda McCartney's a Fisher. She's the actress from.

No, no, no, no. She's amazing. But no Eileen Fisher. So we'll just say one. We'll say Stella McCartney, daughter of Paul McCartney, who is a Beatle. You've heard of the Beatles, right?

Yes, I know the Beatles.

Oh, we have another guest coming on about maggots. Is this the same one?

No. So Stella McCartney, she makes ethical clothing, and it's really starts from the top with the ethics of, like, you know, not using leather, not using fur. Actually, Billie Eilish just had, you know who Billie Eilish is, guy. Because your kids probably listen to her, right?

A singer.

Yeah.

With colorful hair.

Listen, she's blonde again. She's blonde again. But she. Oscar de la Renta wanted to dress her for the Met Gala, and she said that she would love to work with them, but they had to remove fur from their lineup and never sell fur. And they agreed to have her dress. They did that. And, and I think the younger people are really good at. At looking. They look at companies for these things more than older generations. So Gen Z especially, and Millennials, they're looking at like, you know, she was. Oscar de la Rena is an amazing company, but she was like, okay, but you can't sell fur anymore. And she was so happy that they did it because she didn't want to wear a dress by a company that sells fur.

Yeah.

So, so amazing.

We do have a couple of comments that I wanted to bring up is see here. So Scott goes. I really enjoyed the podcast. So thank you, Scott, for listening. And Scale us is the best three in the world. So I'm thinking that's us. Hopefully she got the right channel and this. Somebody asked, they're listening on the mobile. How can they listen to. How can they get the podcast? We could drop the link in. So the best way just to go to your. Your favorite podcast player that could be on Google or on Spotify or whatever and just do a search for remarkable people.

Jeff. Oh, my God. Jeff.

What?

He's on a mobile. Tell him to boot his camera and put it on the cube.

Well, there. She said she was cooking. She said she was cooking and I didn't know. I want to burn herself. Yeah, she's burn herself by opening the.

Camera, but she can type.

I'm watching on my phone. Cooking lunch. Can you post the link? I said, well, I was trying.

I got you, girl. I will post the link and tag you after we. We're done. Yeah, so other people are cooking.

Just do a search or, or, or go right here and use your little. Your thing that I so excited about.

Yeah.

Brandy Chastain are one of our former guests who we love and everybody knows. Olympic athlete Brandy Chastain has a question in there.

Oh, let me find.

Yeah, she has a question for us.

I have one more answer for the woman who's cooking.

Okay.

Okay. So. Well, Brandy, we'll get to you, but this may backfire on me. But couldn't you just say Alexa play remarkable people?

Yes, you can. You can say Alexa or Siri.

Now everybody's going. It's all going off across the United States.

Hey, Siri, play. Guys, Kawasaki's latest podcast.

Our download numbers just went up just because of that right there.

We should do this every time. Forget that QR code or just do this every time.

That's why I have headphones on, because I knew he would do this.

Okay, now put Brandy's question up.

Okay, here we go. How does Sarah Blakely and Spanx stack up in the ethics and corporate culture?

Oh, we tried to get Sarah Blakely. What happened?

She said, no Spanx.

That was a dad joke by a mom. That was bad.

And I said Spanx a lot.

We're still holding it in.

Oh, my gosh.

Brandy, Brandy, if you're still out there and if you know her, ask her for us. We would love to have her.

She said, you just set off my Alexa, and now it's playing ymca. So thanks for that.

Why would it play ymca?

That's why she was listening to a lot there. Everybody's elect.

Silence returns to the Internet.

Yes, everybody's just going off. But.

But my Alexa put up Tibetan chakra meditation. Why? What?

That was the last. Somebody was listening to that last on their playlist. Oh, so you're stressing people out there at home, guys. So that's why they were all.

Anyway, Brandy, get us Sarah.

So, yeah, I think that is an interesting question, though. I mean, I haven't heard any negative things about Spanx culture. I do love. I follow Sarah Blakely on LinkedIn, and she does post a lot of good things. I think she's a great role model, which is part of good ethics, which is a question later. I think she's a great role model for creating a product that didn't exist for women using, you know, her own invention. And, you know, it was just something that people needed. So I.

You know what? Brandy's opened up a whole new thing here. So, you know, we. We've had on our show Susie Batiz from Poo Pourri and Melissa from Doug and Melissa the Toy Company, or Melissa and Doug, Kara golden from Hint. But I'M seeing a trend here. The people we mentioned, as, you know, good examples, have so far been mostly women. Have you noticed that Brandy has. Yeah.

Susie Batiste is a great example. Poo Pourri has really great corporate culture. It's very fun. They have. Their ads are hysterical. They're a brand that doesn't take themselves too seriously. They're a, you know, spray before you go for. For the bathroom. So, I mean, it's. It's a funny topic. And they just lean into that so much, and all their stuff is great.

She lives in a church.

She died.

Hope has another question. So she's. She's actually, we've made her quit cooking, and she's making lunch. Now she's asking more questions. Who determines what qualifies as good when it comes to ethics?

Right.

I think that's kind of. And you talked about this with Robert Chestnut in your. In your podcast. Because one of the things that I took away from it that I thought was. Was really, really cool was one of the things he said. Intelligent and creative people. They are some of the times the ones who struggle with integrity more than others because they can rationalize, you know, what they're doing. So that's a great question.

Hope that can be a slippery slope.

Yeah. Yeah. What's the answer?

That's. She's asking what. She's asking you not. See, it's your podcast. We just press button.

It's almost like beauty. Right. You know it when you see it. Like, it's. And it's not the same to every person. It's not like you could say, this is. This is ethical. Because, I mean, that's. It's a philosophical question, ultimately, but they're. It's kind of your moral compass. Sl. So it is. I mean, how we judge it would be different. But then you look at someone like Harvey Weinstein, you know, I think everybody can agree that. That he had horrible ethics and he was a horrible person.

And it went for a long time.

Yeah. He got people to go to Oscars. He also threatened, you know, I mean, all he did. So everybody can agree with that. But then there's, like, certain aspects where people don't want to believe. You know, when that story first came out, you know, no one wants to say anything because it's him. It's that power piece of it. And I think that that's sort of where men and women are different. You don't really hear stories about women who. Power goes to their head, and then they're all these things. Not as often like Angela Merkel is just. I think she's coming down. And there is an article that I read on how she lives in the same exact apartment is when she got elected Chancellor of Germany. And, you know, she, her and her husband split the cleaning. They don't have a maid. They do all of their own laundry. They do. She never changed how she lived, even though she was Chancellor of Germany for decades. Right.

She doesn't drive a Porsche.

She probably drives a Mercedes. That would be my guess. I would guess a black banker Mercedes. But I can.

Maybach.

The flip side of this is, what about poor ethics? You know, you just talked about Weinstein, and even Brandi goes, this whole conversation is a slippery slope. It really can be. And I think that's why. And so that's why we're going to bring up Hope's comment. She's eating tacos, we asked. Which is. And typing with only one finger. Thank you for selling us. It was the clean one. That was.

That's what.

Support your keyboard. I think Elon Musk kind of crossed the boundary and. And has crossed the boundary. I mean, now he's not allowed to tweet about his company unless his legal team approves it because he just thought he could say whatever he wanted and smoke a big blunt on Joe Rogan's show and think it was okay. And the investors were like, hello, maybe you shouldn't be smoking a big. You know.

Yeah. On npr, I heard a report about Peter Thiel's new book, and the author was discussing Peter Thiel and. Oh, my God, you should everybody Google that. Peter Thiel's new book on npr. Oh, my God.

Yeah.

After the show. Don't subscribe to that podcast. Just subscribe to ours. But it's. But you know what I mean, if you have to say that money and the lack of ethics is highly correlated. There's no two ways about it. Right.

What is it? Absolute power corrupts absolutely kind of a thing.

Absolute money certainly corrupts absolutely. That's for sure.

But here's another great comment. This is from Jonathan over on LinkedIn. He says, I think that there's no difference between corporate ethics and personal ethics. People can only live by one set of ethics. I think that's. I, that's what I believe as well. But then you look at, like, what guy just said. It seems like, you know, maybe we should never wish for money and fame and success because it seems to corrupt the higher up you go. I mean.

Well, I'll give you. I. This is. This is in the interview. So I asked, and this is a question we should think about, because during the Trump administration, when you, when you saw, hey, what do I care? During the Trump administration, you often saw pictures of Tim Cook palling around with Donald Trump at the White House, having lunch, taking him on a tour of the supposed Austin, Texas Made in America factory that, because of Trump, was open but was really there for years. And now there's two, and this is a question I'd like people to comment on. So there's two ways of looking at Tim Cook palling around with Donald Trump. One is his responsibility is to the shareholders. And if sucking up to Donald Trump means that, you know, Apple remains on the okay to buy for the US Government and doesn't get tariffed by China, he's doing the right thing. He's. He's doing the fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. The other attitude is, if not Tim Cook, CEO of the richest company in the world, if he can't draw the line because he's untouchable, who can draw the line if not Tim Cook? So send in your comments. Do you believe that his fiduciary responsibilities to the shareholders to suck up or not?

Well, Brandy has a comment about kind of this in the same lane. If you're a company, is your ultimate goal to make money, make people happy, make the world a better place? Which one? And then you say, who matters within your company? Those in leadership at the top or every person in every job? And are they balanced? Who gets bonuses and stocks and all that kind of stuff? So that's a great point, you know.

Well, I think an old Yiddish saying is when a fish gets rotten, the head stinks first.

Yeah, there was a while back, there was a grocery store chain here that went on strike for different reasons. And the people that worked there, they get like, profit sharing. And so that kind of goes to like, does everybody share in the money? You know, the example that Jeff gave with a guy who takes the lower salary and Dan Price takes the lower salary, everybody gets at least this amount, so they have a livable wage. You know, I think not a lot of companies look at that. The money piece of it. There's that, you know, the. And then getting into the ethics piece of it, when there's CEOs that do horrible things and then they're let go, they have these golden parachutes that are ironclad by their lawyers and they still make all the money. Like, I think McDonald's was the example from the podcast. If you guys are interested, go listen to that story. But you know, and then that, that's a whole other ethical issue. You know, these, these contracts are signed before you even start working.

Well, McDonald's is an example of the CEO got canned without a bonus.

Right.

Or a go to parachute.

Didn't he get it? I thought he did get it.

No, they mentioned in the podcast. But you know what? Okay, so, you know, like a large Mountain View company, general counsel dates someone in his department, gets her pregnant, they break up, he marries another woman in her department, leaves with about $200 million of options. Another person at that company heads a large division. A lot of allegations about sexual harassment leaves with $90 million. So, you know, if you're a rank and file employee at that company, what's the message?

Don't work late. There's a lot going on at the office. You don't want to do that.

I guess so.

So one of the things I think.

Is there before, they've been in that kind of office before. So, yeah, the answer was don't be in your cubicle when no one else is around.

So you mentioned Dan. We talked about Dan Price earlier. And I think one of the things that. I think that one of the good things, if there's anything that's come out of COVID is that we've seen the importance of the frontline workers and how things that it's not fair and what they've had to go through and all that stuff. And you mentioned Dan Price and him, you know, the livable wage and all that kind of stuff. And I think we're seeing more and more of that and companies that are doing that hopefully will continue to be rewarded with better, you know, customers and clients and stuff like that.

So I saw, I saw a great story in the Post this morning about how the frontline workers in a nursing home in, I think, Virginia, you know, some of them were hit the lottery and could apply for a visa, but the fee is now $725, even though the previous administration wanted to double that. And so the residents of the nursing home raised money and helped coach the frontline immigrant workers to help them become American citizens. Now, isn't that a great story?

That is.

So we are about halfway through our show today, so don't forget to go to remarkable people.com or if you have not subscribed or followed or actually left, left us a rating and review. Make sure to hold up your little devices and. And what?

And be sure to listen to Brandy Chastain's Yes.

Yeah, she's been in the comments today. So Give her a follow and listen. And yeah, we'd love. We love comments. We love all that stuff. But if you haven't followed us yet, make sure you do that.

Hey, Brandy, if you're still there, how's the remarkable tablet treating you?

That's right. She got one. So one of the. Another question, and I think it's a great one that Peg came up with, is who do you think, other than Guy Kawasaki, who do you think is a good role model? We'd love to know in the comments who is a good. We've had a couple that we've talked about. Hope had a great question. Hope had a great.

He doesn't want to be your role model.

She had a great comment. So maybe the foundation of good ethics is humility. I thought that was pretty profound.

Yeah.

For somebody who's cooking at the same time.

She can cook, and I know she's.

Coming up tweetables right when she's cooking. Yeah.

Geez.

But who would you say is a good role model? That's a tough one.

Here's an example that kind of. And I have an ethical twist on it, too. So Beyonce recently did a campaign with Tiffany diamonds, and there was artwork in the. It was like videos and photos, and it was like. I think. I don't know how to say the name properly. It's Basquiat. I think. Sorry, I'm saying the name wrong, but it's this really famous artist who passed away and he did really like modern contemporary art, and they used it in there and it was kind of like the Tiffany blue. And people immediately started, like, railing on Beyonce for using art in this ad and blah, blah. Okay. Number one, Tiffany's cre obviously set up the whole thing. And. But here's the thing. The art is. You can rent the art. Like, the art. There's like a foundation where you can, like, use this art for commercial things. And the, you know, you pay for it. So that people looked at it was like this ethical thing like, how dare you use this great art for blood diamonds. She got a lot. There's a lot of pushback for this where she's usually like a really. I still think she's a positive role model, but she got an ethical pushback for using art.

There was also a story this morning about how Tiffany controls who can use that blue. Is that possible?

It's Tiffany blue, so I'm sure probably is. They probably have trademarked it. It's a very specific color, I guess.

Yeah, you can trade. There is some things that you can Trademark colors that we need a guy.

Black.

The black. They just came out with the widest white. They just had the widest white. They developed. That's going to, you know, it's going to actually change the cooling industry.

So Porsche has a color for its car called chalk, and it looks like dull chalk. That's extra now. I don't know why you would do that.

So Hope says this. This talk about role models here. And Hope says, I'm a mom. Equal superpowers. That's true. She can cook and tweet and do all that stuff. So moms, I think, are. Yes. Unsung heroes, role models. Yes.

Teachers.

And. And many people, podcast guests have cited their mom's influence. So our parents are definitely are people who influence our ethics, for sure.

You know, interestingly, Pig, I can't think of one example where One of our 100 guests said, dad.

Their dad. I know.

Yeah.

Really? Seriously.

It's true. Said their mom. And Abe Lincoln. Abe Lincoln. Said his mom.

Oh, yeah.

So Honest Abe.

Step up, dads.

Yeah.

Come on. Yeah.

Really?

Now, I would say my dad would be my. I mean, my mom, too, but my dad is a big role model in my life, so I. I would. Not just because you said that, but honestly, you know, he was the best man at my wedding.

Oh, I just saw a comment from Eric Trump saying dad stopped.

Seriously doubt he's watching, but he probably does have free time.

Yeah.

He's looking for a lawyer right now, so.

Oh, boy.

So. So that was. You know, who's a good role model? There's a couple people who've put, like, Barack. Barack Obama, Stacey Abrams. Jack is my role model just for creativity. Yeah.

No. Do you know, I don't know him.

Interesting. Scott.

Scott Galloway.

Somebody said Brene Brown.

Yeah. Mark says.

There you go, Mark. Amen, baby.

Cool. So our next question, and we've kind of talked about this already, but is, do you stop using a service or buying a product due to leadership? I do. I know Guy has.

I don't use Uber anymore. I will walk before I catch Uber.

Yeah. Shayla is the same. Shayla's a lift girl.

Yeah. So I think people, that. That's a great question. I would. I mean, have you. You know, for a long time, they'd say, oh, they don't work. But I think more and more people. And they're even showing in studies that brands. That's why a lot of brands are leaning into activism. And you can tell the fake ones when they're just gonna, you know, thoughts and prayers or What? You know, that kind of, you know, you know, they're just trying to chime in on the hashtag. But there, there is a lot, especially the younger generation. And my daughter first I know for sure is like they want to put their money with something that they believe in and that that company is behind. And so I think there's going to be more and more important in the future. And I don't think brands are going to be able to walk the fence as much as they used to be able to. Now you can tell who gave. Gave to certain areas, like who gave to this, who gave to that. That kind of thing.

Right, right. Yeah. If your company supports X with contracts, Wayfair got a big pushback on that.

Well, there was some news item about how Toyota had donated money to 30 of the congressmen who. Or congress people who voted against the, you know, ratification or whatever of Biden. Oops.

Right.

So some. Yes, I do. I don't like Facebook. After being in a zoom meet up with Cheryl and Barbie doll is more real than hers. How the instant WhatsApp is connected. So I'm glad. Tell us how you feel, because that means there's some people. I mean, there's that whole thing about delete. Delete Facebook.

Anita is leaning in, so to speak.

Yeah. And this is. We didn't talk about this at the very beginning, but this is a great question. What is your definition of leadership? Does that just mean a boss ahead of you in the company? But what is a definition of leadership?

Okay, mine would be a moral compass and inspiration.

That's deep. That's a tweet.

I know. I'm a deep guy.

I know. Deep guy. That's a T shirt. We're gonna have merch. Deep guy.

That's a color guy.

It's true. Hey, you guys, we're thinking of doing merch. What do you think about that? Hats?

Oh, God, yes.

I think it's a good idea. We're doing it.

Make Apple great again. That's what the whole thing is.

No, we used to have. Oh, I have some.

Where I gotta look now.

We had our. We had. We used to make these little sassy quotes with that little. That little dinosaur guy. Remember guy? We did. So Hope has like stop reading inspirational quotes and get back to work with things like that.

Hope is on fire today. A co worker just interviewed with Facebook and pulled out of the process because she decided it's just not aligned with her values. And the latest Instagram deal with teens solidified that there's a lot of People who are doing what they call the Great Migration or the Great Resignation.

What's the Instagram deal?

Because they studies that show that now that Instagram is harmful for teens.

They knew about it in there. There was a report inside of Facebook that. That it was. They knew it was going on and it was leaked and so not cool.

So they didn't change anything.

So integrity. Inspiration earns my loyalty. Yeah. So.

What are we gonna do with a Hope? We need her every week.

That's right. Hope, you're open. You're our super.

Brandy. Yeah, open Brandy. That sounds like a great brand. Hope and Brandy.

So our final question is this one. How do you teach young people integrity? This is a really good one, guy. You got kids, so how do you teach your kids integrity?

Oh, man. You know, all you can do is set an example. So can I tell you an anti integrity story that has lived with me to this day?

Sure.

So when I was in elementary school, I think I went to this, this hardware department store with one of my relatives. I won't name names because, you know, I don't want to piss off my family. But anyway, and so we went to this hardware slash department store and he needed a couple of screws. So he took a couple of screws from one of those little plastic canisters that have like 20 screws. He took a couple of. And he walked out with me. And I was just shocked that my relative here who took me shopping shoplifted. And that has stayed with me forever. And it's like, I don't know what I learned. I learned that, you know, people are gray, not black and white or. I don't know if I learned that. You know, arguably that example put me more in the black and white camp than the gray camp. It's not like I said, oh, it was okay, I'll do that too. I became even more hardcore. I won't even steal two screws. So. But that was really. It was a. It wasn't a scar, but it. This has stayed with me to this day that somebody did that.

By the way, that story is inside of the podcast. If you guys haven't checked it out, make sure you do that because Robert. And I'm not going to spoil it. He shares a story from his childhood that really affected him as well. And you can find that by just holding up your little handy dandy phone and clicking on the QR code. And you will be brought to the podcast where you can follow us and you can download and listen to this episode. I have a similar Story that Robert shared, but it was a little different. I remember I had the same one that he had, like, at the store, but one of the ones that I had when I was growing up is I found a wallet with a lot of money in it. And we found the thing, and I was like, I remember taking it with my dad, and he's like, well, you need to call it. And I'm like, okay. And I was expecting, you know, you always see those things. And, like. And then he gave him the entire contents of his wallet and as a thank you for being such an honest young man. And the guy went, thanks, and didn't give me a dime. And I was just like. But my dad taught me. He's like, you do the right thing no matter what, even if you don't get any reward out of it. And so that was kind of like one of those. That stuck with me. How about you, Peg?

I was going to say leading by example, for sure. And I think one of the ways that I did it with my kids, they were all, like, in theater and dance, and they always earned every single part they got. And there was a lot of, like, stage parents that would put pressure on people to give their kids better parts or, you know, do things to push that. And I never did that. Like, every part my kids ever got, they earned it, and they knew that. And they never got pushed up to other levels. It was all on their own merit. And I think that's important. And it showed a lot of integrity. And the kids that did get pushed ahead, it didn't help them. You know, some of them ended up having a lot of problems. And I was just realistic with them about, you know, hey, you're in theater and dance, but that. And that's amazing, but that doesn't mean you're gonna, you know, make your living from this. It's, you know, right now, it's what you're doing.

Right.

You know, So I think those are ways that I think I tried to lead by example with my kids.

Yeah. I'll tell you something that I do all the time now that has set an example for my kids, because they told me that, which is, I tip big. I tip 25 to 50% every time. I. Just this morning, I had a cup of coffee and a croissant. It was eight bucks, and I gave him a $10 tip. I just think that those frontline workers, we should do whatever we can to help them. And, you know, is 10 buck tip gonna change my life? No. Is it gonna change their life? Probably not either. But you know, it's better than a buck and a half tip. So I think one thing everybody could do is just tip big. Why not?

That's a great lesson. So we got some great, we got some great comments here, Jed. Record. I'm so he. Good to see you here for a long time. Great insights being shared. Love it. Actions speak louder than words. Our super user today, Hope says, ooh.

That'S a tough one.

Start super young. It's part of their identity. I often tell my four year old daughter, we are the McDonald's. We always tell the truth, even when it's hard. That's a great thing. She repeats that back to me on call. If she's fibbing, I'll ask, who are you? She says, McDonald. What does that mean? Always tell the truth, even when it's hard. Dad is an awesome example there. Hope, thank you for sharing that for us. And I think it's genetic what the elders do. Kids do too. A lot of people are saying the same thing and I guess we're squeaking out some truth out of deep thoughts out of guy today.

So that's good.

Thanks, Jed. Thanks for pointing that out. Thanks for noticing.

Is the implication that usually I'm not full of deep thoughts. I mean that's the only way I can interpret that. I don't know about you guys.

And Jonathan says integrity is learned through exercise and practice. When we learn to embrace mistakes and own them without fear, build the confidence to grow into integrity. That's great, Jonathan, thank you for that.

And I tell you, you know, just to tarnish my image a little bit. So going back to the tip story. So one reason I tip big is because I'm a generous guy and I want to help people to the extent that I can. But there's also, that's the, that's the carrot, but there's also a stick. And the stick is I just don't want anybody to recognize me and tell his or her friends and family that Guy Kawasaki is a tight ass. That would just. So that's the negative reason why I do it. There's also the positive reason. But both reasons adds up to big tips.

I can't remember who it was. There was some celebrity I was researching and it came up that they were a poor tipper and that was like their nickname. That's what they were known for.

And even more important is like Hope says, you want them to remember your order too. So that's another great. Yeah, I always tell. That's what I told my kids like they, they're, they're out there behind a door touching your food right now. Treat them nice. Well, my son's now, he works at, he At a high end restaurant and he, you know, it just amazes me the stories he tells of how rude people are.

Like, what? Tell us some.

Well, I mean, just that they, you know, they expect, they expect all this stuff and they usually are the lowest tippers and usually the ones that you don't think, you're thinking like, okay, and it's at a high end restaurant that come in and like, look, maybe like they're not wearing, you know, what everyone else is wearing. And those are the ones who tip really, really well. And so just interesting how he, some of the stories, you know, I think.

I think that you can tell a lot about a person by how the person treats someone, you know, at this quote unquote, in their perception. Lower station, you know, waiter, waitress, flight attendant, reservations clerk.

Cashiers are getting cashier.

Right, right. Because, you know, anybody can suck up to the president to be sure your company's not on the Chinese tariff list. But, you know, how do you treat someone who just brought you a burger? That's the test, right?

I've, I've tried to be like extra nice to people in stores too, because people are just being rude and, you know, horrible. That's. Yeah, I'm always like, even though you have a mask. Jokes.

Even though you have a mask on, we know who you are. Like, I can't hide the beard. They know that this weirdo is coming again.

You know what? We should, we should invent a term. Like, huh. Remember we, we just interviewed Chris Messina, who invented the hashtag. That's next week. But we should invent a term that's the opposite of a Karen, you know, so we can label positive examples.

Right? That would be good. Turn it around. We'll call it a guy instead. You pulled a guy there instead of a Karen? That's what it'd be.

How about a knee rack, which is Karen reversed.

Okay, now we are getting deep. We're getting really deep now. So Elsa says a great idea.

My parents exploding.

Yeah. My parents owned a restaurant and I worked there. I usually tip 20%, but since COVID I've tipped 30. I'm not nearly as much. Yeah. And somebody from LinkedIn says, Without integrity, you can't be credible. My wife is tired of me tipping big, but I still do. Even when the meal was dumped in my lap, that is. Yes, they will remember that.

So backwards names. Reminds me of middle school yeah, this is funny.

This is a great one. Oh, sorry. This is. We agree with Guy. Be a big tipper whenever we can. And we can do it more times than we think. That is true, Armando. Yes. And then Hope, once again, amazing Hope. She is our Hope. Side note, my uncle was public off. It was an on public office, so told his kids if they ever used his name to get out of trouble, they get punished worse from him than from the law. So I had. So my dad was a preacher and I lived in a small town. And I remember when I first got my car and I could only. They only let me drive to school and back, and I went the long way home and I squealed my tires on purpose, you know, at a stop sign, way away from my house. And by the time I got home, like, three people had called my dad. I'm like, God, I can't get away with nothing. Yeah.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know.

No, Hope, we love it. You are awesome. Hope. Don't ever. Don't ever stop commenting. We love you. We're here at the same time every week, so why don't we.

Well, we should find out where she lives and then we can all do the podcast or this show from there. And eat.

Yes. Yeah. And see, we need merch, because this. She would be perfect to send something to because she's like the super fan today. Yeah.

You know what? Okay, pick. Here's an idea from Merch. Okay. Because I am an investor and advisor to Merge 4. Merge 4 will make remarkable people socks. No problem.

Let us know in the comments if you would like remarkable people socks.

We could put remarkable on one on one sock and people on the other. Yeah.

I'd mess them up and they'd say, people remarkable because I get up in the morning early.

You can't with Merge4 because they're like specific sex.

So she is addicted to this podcast now. Welcome to India Food paradise. Very, very cool. And Hope says tacos for all of us. Awesome. She's in the Chicago area, so we'll.

Be there for pizza next week.

I loved India. Oh, my God, India is so intimidating. I mean, you know, I love people that they go to New York and they say, oh, my God, New York is so fast paced and hectic and so crowded. And then you get off the plane in India and, man, you are literally in a different world. Oh, my God. And I've been to Mumbai and Bangalore and Pune Puna. Pune Puna. Wow. India was an experience. Holy cow.

Did you do it all at once or those three different trips.

No, those are over the course of years. I mean, you can, you can only take so much of India if you're in America. I mean, it's really, it's an assault on your senses that there's so much stuff happening and the colors are so beautiful and it's so humid and it takes four hours to go five kilometers and it's just, it's an out of body experience. India.

Yeah.

She says all senses come together. She lives in Mumbai, so. Yeah, Very, very cool.

So we, I stayed at the Oberoi.

Very cool. So we are at the end of our time. We've gone through our questions. Do not forget to check out Remarkable People dot com. We've got. This is a really, as you can tell, that's a really deep, interesting conversation this week with Robert Chestnut. We've got a really interesting one coming up next week that we'll be talking about, same time, same channel. But if you want to follow us on the podcast, make sure you go to remarkable people.com or hold up your phone and just click on this QR code and follow us there, please. And we would love it if you would leave a rating and review. And maybe next week we'll read all the ones we got this week on, on the. On the show.

And everybody should vote whether they want socks.

Yes, let us know. Socks for the win.

Thanks for everybody for listening and commenting and. Hey, Brandy. Hey.

That's awesome. Yeah. And hope I would take off my.

Shirt and wave it, but, you know, I don't want to go all Galloway on us, so.

Yeah, yeah, Hope you're our only hope. Thank you so much. You've kept us on track today. She goes. Thank you for the great combo. This was way pertinent topic. Yes, it was. So if you haven't listened to the podcast, make sure you guys check it out and leave us comments like here in this thread. If you go listen to it, pop on back. Let us know what you think after you leave us a rating review over on your favorite podcast platform. And with that guy, I'll let you have the last word.

Well, it is aloha and mahalo and crying out loud, get vaccinated and wear a mask. I'm gonna go all Fauci on you.

Yeah. Awesome.

Do the right thing.

See you guys next time.

Bye.

I'm ready.