Remarkable People Behind the Podcast - How to Blaze a Trail

Foreign. Hello, it's Guy Kawasaki. I am in Watsonville, California and I am the host of, of the Remarkable People podcast. And today we released a new episode. It's with Mark Benioff, the founder and former intern of Guy Kawasaki of Salesforce. So where's Pig? And where is Jeff? They are also here. No evil. See no evil and edit no evil.

Right?

So Mark Benioff, believe it or not, I hired him in 1984 to be an intern writing assembly language program programs at Apple. His goal was to write these assembly language programs so that we could send them to other developers so they would learn how to write assembly language program. And that is Marc Benioff's checkered start in technology.

And so I love how he was a student, though. I mean, what he taught, the backstory is really amazing. He was a student who was dying for this, this thing that you were making with Macintosh. And he kept calling you and calling you and you were like, oh, it's coming. It's definitely coming soon. And then you were finally like, okay, do you want a job? Because we need some software. Hey, you know what? He was good. I mean, he, he was so smart. He was like for a 19 year old kid, for a 19 year old kid to like network as well as he did. It's amazing. There's a lot of lessons to learn from Mark.

He is the man. You have to admit, he is the man. And one lesson is be nice to your interns.

He never did say, you never did say in the, the interview that if he was a good intern or not. I mean, he said he was very smart and stuff.

I can't remember, man. He is now.

I read this other article and basically he wrote the software that you needed to do presentations because you didn't have anything. So he actually created something. He created the things that you used for demos. So he was, he did a fantastic job. He was. Which is part of the Blaze of Trail, the title of his book and what he's done with his whole career. There was nothing for that computer and he wrote the code in programs. That is amazing.

Well, Peg, that's not quite accurate though. I have to take. Well, well, because there was Mac Paint and Mac, right? So he didn't write those. So that would be, I would say, well, exaggeration.

Another great lesson of Mark as an intern is when he got stuck, he would go ask the senior engineers at Apple. Like he would go to another building and ask this one guy, who is brilliant, whose name I forgot, he would go and say, hey, I'M stuck on this. How do I do this? Like, that is the best lesson for an intern. A lot of people don't do that, I think.

Yep. Yep.

So for you guys are watching in the comments right now, I wanted to bring up some of those. Sharon says hi from Canada. So thank you for watching over on LinkedIn. Sharon, have you guys listened to this episode yet? This is a really, really good one, especially if you want to have the inside baseball on Apple because there's a lot of great stories like Peg was saying in there. So make sure you guys go to remarkablepeople.com or you can just hold up your smart device here and click on this QR code and you can go right into it. And we would love for you to leave a, a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. That really helps us out and helps get the word out to other people about awesome episodes like this one. So our kind of, our question here is our icebreaker is have you ever forged a path in your career? Like, it sounds like he mean, he really did forge this path. He had a plan and he did it and he went for it. And you who are watching with us live, are you in the middle of that? Are you doing that? Have you done that? We would love to hear from you. Peg, how about you?

And if you've done it really well, contact us because we're always looking for people to interview.

I definitely have done it before because I was so early in social media. There was stuff I wanted to do that there was no plan for. So how did you a book launch on social media? I just figured it all out and I think I've done pretty, pretty well with those, pretty good with book launches. What do you think, Guy?

Well, yeah, and you know, you definitely figured out Twitter and I mean, you knew, you knew about Canva before Canva was Canva.

So. Yeah, but part of that is, like things that we learned together. Like, I was kind of, we're always like looking for new tools and stuff. But I mean, a bigger Canva thing where I forged a path was, you know, once we started working with Canva, how do we make Canvas Canva a thing? How do we tell people about this product slash service that we want everybody to want? And I did some research and I found, you know, this was before everybody was using images for everything. And I found some stats and then I created the term visual marketing to make a thing so we could tell people, hey, you need this program because you don't have to have, you know, a fancy program. You can do it yourself. Like, it was a whole little, like, idea of, like, how that can be a thing. And that worked pretty well too. So, I mean, sometimes you do, but in social media, a lot of times you have to forge a path. There's. Which is kind of what my whole blog is about. Things that I needed, I wanted to do, but then figured it out myself because, you know, blogging was new. Now podcasting, Podcasting, I feel, is totally trumped blogs. You hardly ever ever hear about people writing on their blog as being their main thing anymore. So now it's like a whole new thing. You know, you got to learn how to be entertaining, you got to learn how to edit, and then it's promoting it on the back end. Social media.

Do you think that TikTok will replace podcasting?

No, I think they're apples and oranges. I think you have different people doing. You know, it's a lot of younger people, and obviously every age people are on TikTok doing like, hysterical things. I see the funniest stuff on TikTok all the time. But podcasting, it's more about, like coming up with that idea and sharing the idea and diving into it in all different ways. You know, there's obviously remarkable people interviews, but then there's people who just talk about like, you know, true crime. Podcasts are so popular. Like, there's just things that. Or TV shows or like all these different things. I'm watching the Sex and the City reboot and just like that, they have a weekly podcast that is the writer's room. That's what all the stuff that they. Behind the scenes on the episode. Totally fascinating. So I think it's kind of like podcasting and blogging are the same in that you're like picking a topic to me and kind of. And then like expanding on it on your show. Slash used to be your blog post where TikTok is short form entertainment, which to me those are. I don't think they'll replace or exchange each other.

Yeah, you know, I think that it takes more effort to do a podcast than to do a blog.

That's because you haven't written a blog post in a while.

You know, the sweet spot for blog post is 500 to 700 words, right? I mean, something.

Not anymore. Now it's like 3,000 words.

How much?

Forget it. 3,000 words is. Nobody reads the whole thing then. 3,000 words? Yep, nobody reads 3,000.

So in the comments, do you guys read a 3,000 word? But see, our. Our audience is pretty smart and they Are readers, I have a feeling. And so I bet they consume long blog posts. But let us know in the comments.

That would be like saying you should listen to a one hour podcast. Oh, yeah, our podcast is an hour.

And read the transcript.

So Jonathan says this. He goes, he's failing at forging a path. He says, my industry is stuck in Act 2 of the story, and I'm trying to get them to jump to Act 3. And it feels hopeless. The hard part of forging a path is you can't really ask how to get there. You're the first. Very, very true.

Yep.

Do you mean your bite, Jonathan? What industry? Let's help Jonathan. He's always watching her. Yeah, Jonathan, what industry is it? And can we help get you to two to three?

Right. And you know, this is a good point because we. I didn't think about this. It's kind of American thing we say, what does blaze a trail mean? Amon asked that question. What does that mean?

I would say it stems from the westerns.

Yeah.

Let's go back to John Wayne. Even though he's. Can we still mention John Wayne? Anyway, you're blazing a trail. You are on the Oregon Trail. You want to go to California, but it doesn't exist. So you have to make the trail. There's no path. There's nothing. You have to figure out everything to get from, I don't know, Massachusetts to California and every challenge along the way. Some people made it, some people didn't. Stuck at Donner Pass eating each other.

Yep, yep.

We went dark really quick there, didn't we?

What do you mean?

We're 10 minutes into it before we got dark.

It's a record.

For some reason. I think the diner pass is hysterical. I know that's not nice, but.

Oh, we're gonna take a lot of for that, man.

Sorry. I'm sorry, but, oh, my God, there's jokes in there.

It would be like eating a thigh bone going.

Oh, man, we're gonna get. People are gonna say, you guys think cannibalism is funny, huh? So my ancestor was a Donner Pass.

Yeah. All right.

We'Re gonna have to. We're going to be like Joe Rogan. We have to issue an apology for fostering. Incorrect.

Sorry.

Obviously I don't advocate that. I mean it like in a Willy Wonka. It's frowned upon in some societies.

Like cannibalism really disagrees with me. Sorry, I just had to go there. All right, next question. What leaders do?

You egg started that path.

Okay.

Not me.

That's right. It's usually great, it's usually the other way. But what leaders do you think are trailblazers? So trailblazing, we kind of defined what it was first out there. You know, cutting your own path. We'd always another like when you go on a ski slope, cutting your own path, you like going where no other skier has gone before. Down the hill it is. And I just stick there on the side. But what leaders do you think are trailblazers? So guy, what would you say? I mean most lot of them are on the, on the podcast. But what would you say is a trailblazer that comes to mind for a leader when you think about it?

Well, if you have to be alive, a live one, you have to say Elon Musk for sure.

Peg, what about you?

I think Richard Branson is a trailblazer. And then I will say Hugh Howey because he really kind of did things that writers hadn't done before so successfully. And his success keeps snowballing as he's writing scripts and making pitches. And he's moved from this like, you know, guy that worked at a bookstore that wanted to write a book to living his dream of writing Sailing the World. And then now he's pitching movies and working on, you know, in Hollywood. I think, wow, that's a trail.

Yeah. Mine would be. I just finished a book by Bob Iger, which I think is really fascinating with all the ip. Yeah. That he just got. He just retired and all the acquisitions. He got Marvel, he got Pixar, he got all this stuff. And there's a really interesting chapter in his book where he talks about his friendship with Steve Jobs and how he had to pursue Pixar. That's another trailblazer, I would say Pixar. I read Creativity Inc. Which is a great book about those. Ed Catmull, who was one of the founders of Pixar, just really. And how he wrangles creative people, which is a chore. And it was really, it's really interesting. So I think those are all trailblazers I think we've all mentioned here. So let us know.

Walt Disney, of course, is not alive anymore, but he was, he was an amazing trailblazer. Just, you know, he wanted to do something that wasn't done and he wanted to be hand drawn even they were that, you know, it would cost more, take more, more everything.

And he did it and he failed a long time. He wasn't really successful till like his 40s and 50s. I mean, so it, I just stuck with it.

I just got a notice at My Carhartt jacket shipped from Amazon. I'm so happy that I thought you.

Had to mow to actually get on a mower to get a car heart drink. There's like, a thing that they make you do.

I have a utv. Excuse me. Excuse me. I have a utv. I've decided to support Carhartt because they have continue to enforce the vaccination requirement for their employees. And so a lot of people are calling for their. A boycott of Carhartt. So I'm going opposite. I'm buying stuff from Carhartt that I really don't need. So that means following.

They're like Harley Davidson. Like, there's kind of no replacement for Carhartt stuff if you're a car heart person. So I don't think that their. Their boycott is gonna.

So did you get it for your lawn guy? Are you wearing.

Boycotts work, huh?

I said, did you get it for your lawn guy or are you wearing it?

I'm wearing it.

Okay.

I'm wearing. I'm gonna be a Carhartt kind of guy. Well, you know, it just, like, fits in with my whole Yellowstone Persona. There we go.

That's the real reason right there.

Do you guys. Are you guys. Are you John Dutton fans?

I've watched a couple episodes.

And you don't like. Oh, Peg, it is a deep, dark hole, man. I. I spent two or three hours a day watching Yellowstone. I spend more time. I spend more time watching Yellowstone than podcast.

Oh, no, there's a lot of seasons. Peg, we're in trouble.

I like to watch comedies. Honestly, I just need some, like, light. I need some, like. I wish I hadn't watched Ted Lasso so I could watch Ted Lasso and never have seen it again. I just like stuff that makes me laugh.

You should watch C Span. There's a lot of funny stuff on C Span.

So we have some people who. Who chimed in on. On Trailblazers and Edison. He's dead, but, yeah, he would be definitely one Reed Hastings and Mark Randolph is who Jonathan sets. So, yeah, so those are all good.

He said that on LinkedIn. No, I was Bob Fosse. But honestly, I just. Speaking of things that weren't funny, the Bob Fosse special that was out. I just watched that documentary that was dark. And he's somebody who, like, once I learned more about his life did not make me like his art more.

What was dark about him?

Pardon me?

What was dark about him?

What did he do?

He sexually harassed every dance girl that was ever in the shows. He Basically was not good that way, but he was so talented and creative. But he had drug problems and he had a lot of issues, but his choreography was amazing.

So Guy had already answered this question, but our next question is, do you support companies that do business for good? Guy mentioned Carhartt. Peg, you've mentioned a couple in the past. I can't remember off the top of my head.

Patagonia.

Yeah. Allbirds is who I was going to say. Thank you for spilling mine.

But yes, our example for this is Salesforce. And I think I actually use Salesforce before as an example, not when Mark was on the show, but when I went to the Dreamforce conference, which is massively huge in San Francisco. It is the first and only event I ever attended that they gave every single person a reusable water bottle and they had everywhere refillable water.

No, we just lost B that you could refill.

So there was. Did I just freeze?

You did, yeah. Tell Rich to get off of Netflix. She just left.

Oh, oh, oh.

Hopefully she'll be back.

So maybe the Amazon driver's at a door.

Oh, here, she's coming. I hear she's ringing. Let me bring her back in here. There you are.

Huh.

Sorry.

That's weird.

You know, it's that. That brand new XLR mic, it sends so much more data. It's clogging up your pipe at your house.

My WI fi just drops sometimes. But anyway, that is a really big deal that they did that at the Dreamforce conference. Like they, you know, Mark looked at the fact that they have this huge event and then there would be water bottles. Like, it takes over a really good part of downtown San Francisco. Like blocks worth of people need to get fed. And. And it was crazy. And it was so good that they did that. I wish all conferences did that. You know, make the investment. It gives people something with your name on it. And then just the fact that they have those little filter things there telling you how what good you were doing by not getting, you know, a soda or a drink that you were going to throw out packaging. It was huge. The time for.

For Dreamforce.

Right.

So there's 100,000 people. Let's assume they all drink one bottle a day, which is low. That's a hundred thousand plastic bottles entering the system per day just for that. So you're right.

Yeah. So it was huge. And it was so smart, like. And it's looking at those things that, I mean, all these other big events could have thought of the same thing, but nobody has. And it should just Be reproduced everywhere. So, yeah, companies that do, let's see other ones. Patagonia does good. There's different ways of doing good. There's like social good and then there's like, just ways that they're doing better, like sustainability practices. There's so many things in the US that we don't even think about, like solar power, wind power. I do some stuff for a German chemical company too, and they have their geothermal heating. So all their heating for all of their facilities is done by the land and then they have solar power and like, you could make your products more, you know, easier to ship, lighter to ship. You know, we switched to things. We switched away from glass because it was heavier to ship, and now we have all this plastic. It's like, it's going to be hard to go back to other ways, but we still have to, like, look at other things that, you know, there's so many. I'm glad I'm not in shipping and logistics these days, because that's a nightmare.

Well, the thing too is you have to have a. It's just not doing good, but it's also have to be a good product. Like if all birds pinched my feet, I wouldn't buy them, but they're so comfortable. And it's like an added bonus of getting something really, really good. So I haven't heard. Ben from over on YouTube says Everlane. I don't know what that is.

I think that's a company that does clothes.

Okay, let's see. Jonathan says Costco, Ford and Patagonia. So Ford. Jonathan, why do you like Ford so much? Is it because of their new E vehicles? Why, what's, what's Costco do? Yeah, let us know the reason.

Everlane is great. They, they have, they show the true cost behind their products from labor to materials and transportation. So they are very sustainable. And then they all, they make great things at best factories without markups. So they're. That is who I thought they were. Good one, Ben.

Yeah, we'll have to check that out. So our, our next question is, have you heard of the pledge, the 100 movement?

1%, 1%.

What did I say? 101%.

A lot more.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm pledging is 100%.

I think you've conflated here something because that pledge movement is to pledge quote the majority of your estate.

No, he has. He has. So that is one he has. He's in the giving pledge. But the 1% movement is companies that are giving away 1% of their resources to volunteerism or they're donating. He has one to one to one. And then he also is part of the giving pledge, which is. So the 1% movement is, you know, Salesforce employees can volunteer their time. And then all that time is added up towards Salesforce saying, we're giving 1% of our people resources to help volunteer. You know, agencies that need help or reading at schools or like, they don't tell you exactly what you have to do, but you could volunteer however you want and they. It's counted as like, part of your work.

Very cool.

So you and Jeff can go do that and go do 2% and then I won't have to.

Wow.

I actually do need to find something to volunteer for because I have in the past done a lot of volunteering stuff, like girl Scouts, boy Scouts. I've done things at my kids schools. I've done things with like, all different things.

It's really hard with the pandemic because a lot of that stuff is face to face, you know, because I've done stuff at a homeless shelter here around town and some other stuff. And it's just really hard when you're not trying to get sick and you're. Then they need help. And so I think it's really tough for a lot of people. A lot of nonprofits are struggling, so. So Jonathan clarified for us. He said Ford didn't take money from the bailout in 2009. So that's really cool. And he says Costco maintains a livable wage for its employees and makes it a point to avoid layoffs during the last recession. Recession. So thank you. Thanks, John.

And they have great hot dogs. First. I don't know. Isn't there. They had like a hot dog soda combination for like two bucks or something. Right. Some unbelievable number.

We don't have Costco.

We don't either. We have Sam's. Sam's has good hot dogs.

You don't have Costco?

Nope.

Holy cow. How do you live, huh?

Go to Target.

Yeah. So our final question is. This will be a good one. What apps do you use to run your business or your career on your phone?

Well, this is because Mark says he runs Salesforce on his phone.

Right, right.

Mark says he. He runs his whole entire business without a computer, which is crazy.

Which he. I don't know what he talked on the podcast, but we fixed that.

Except for that one day.

Yeah. No, but I mean, if you guys. I mean, it's a really good episode, so don't. I'm not trying to down It Any. But it was. It was funny that we did have to do some work on that one. So.

Yeah. Sound wise.

Because of his microphone.

Yeah.

And actually, you know, you could make the case that because of Marc Benioff's lousy microphone, we decided to buy in bulk headset microphones, and we now give them to every speaker in advance, no matter who they are. Because I have noticed that the more famous and remarkable you are, the less likely you are to have good audio equipment.

Which explains why I am not famous. I have great equipment.

Yeah, we have the best.

Right? So, you know, Jane Goodall has lousy equipment, I can tell you that.

But we make it work. And it's a really good interview. I mean, it really, really, really is.

But.

So, Peg, I know you have a ton of these, but Guy first. I'm going to go with Guy first, because he. What. What apps could you not live without? Guy to run your business.

On my phone, though, right?

Yeah.

I have to tell you guys, I mean, in a rare moment of honesty, the phone is not the center of my universe. It's my computer, because I record using squadcast, which is in a desktop browser, and I edit using descript, which is a Macintosh app. And those are the two things that are core to my existence for podcasting, and podcasting is core to my existence. So if you're core to my core. Your core.

We had a lot of people who have dad jokes all over. April goes, Canva. A lot of people are saying canva. There's more than one person.

You rock, April. You rock.

Jonathan says Trello Outlook G Suite and canva. Teresa says QuickBooks. Yeah, you have to make some money. And that's one. And QuickBooks has some really cool features now where you can, like, scan your. Like when you're out at a restaurant, you can scan your receipts right there. And it goes pretty slick. I would agree with that one.

I saw yesterday Guy. That was something that we used to use all the time, and we actually visited their offices, and then we stopped using them because I think we went into Dropbox more. But Evernote is still around.

I still use Evernote.

Evernote, yeah.

You still use Evernote? Absolutely. Evernote. I used to love Evernote. And then I don't know if Trello took it over for me or Roam.

Research took it over for me. That's the one I've talked about before. It's that one where you can tag and move everything around. So. And it's got a phone app, so.

So you don't use Evernote. Anymore.

I still have it and pay for it because I have so much stuff on it. But most of the time I'm going to roam research.

Well, Evernote and Dropbox should combine into one. That's for one thing.

I wish iOS would make Dropbox a little more user friendly for iOS especially stuff in there. But it's still like clunky.

Yeah, I agree. IOS I think, would be great. Jonathan also said Monday.com and HubSpot for the Academy. So he. I didn't know HubSpot had a app that a lot of people.

What is Monday?

It's a. Yeah, it's a Trello organization. It's like a sauna or some of those other ones. So.

Biggest go to on my phone for app for work stuff because everything is in there. I'm having an order, checking what I need, checking what I need to tell someone else I need. Do I have this. Do I have the other thing?

That's when I don't use it on the phone as much, but I have a tab that's always. It's right now. It's open right now. Is remarkable. Yeah, it's always open.

Do you use the Mac app, though? The Mac app is the best.

I like it in. In a. In a. Just in my thing because I can swipe a tab over really quick.

This is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Trello owned by Atlassian?

Yep.

And Atlassian is another Sydney company, like Canva. So the center of the tech world is Sydney, Australia.

It is now, like. Yes.

And. But the center of the podcasting world is. Where do you live? Lone Star Texas or Lone Texas. And it was one of those L words. Yeah.

Yeah, east of Dallas.

East of Dallas.

Yeah, east of Dallas. We're actually closer to Shreveport, Louisiana. So I get Tex Mex food and Cajun, which is really good.

Wow.

Remember that one East?

Yeah, that's a great song. Yeah, that's Dirk Dirt Bentley, isn't it?

Yeah, I think it was actually.

No, no, you're right, it was.

Gosh, there's a show in the 70s.

Yeah, it's a 70s show that he.

How. How far are you from DFW?

About two hours.

Huh. That's not so far.

No, we. That's. We do. That's where we usually fly out of. We go there and do a park sleep fly and then just take off. Because if you move, if you lose the. The flight out of Longview, because we do have an airport, then you're screwed because there's only like two flights yeah. Alrighty. Oh, so let's see. Any more questions?

Let's see.

Ben says this, he's talking about back to the trailblazers and investor. Inventors have an interesting relationship Trailers. Blazers use the work of inventors. Yeah. So very, very true.

If only Xerox PARC could, could have squeezed the trigger on, you know, bringing a personal computer to market. But I think Xerox parc, their problem was they thought they were a business. They, their customers were only businesses and zero graphy, I. E. Copying as opposed to computing. So they kind of. They had it, man. They had Xerox Park.

Xerox and Kodak are both based in Rochester, New York. So that economy, just where I'm from. So that's like that, like, it's a little stab to my heart. Like they were so close. I mean, Kodak ruled photography for a long time. But then obviously we know what happened. The digital camera came and they didn't hop on that. So.

And I, I hope that people realize that an engineer in 1975 at Kodak invented digital photography. Can you imagine that? Can you. First of all, there's lots of things to think of. All right? So can you imagine a guy going to his boss saying, hey, I figured out a way people don't have to buy film. Make me a hero. That's number one.

And then.

But this is just a lesson in innovation that, you know, you should focus on what people are getting from you, I. E. The preservation of memories. And if you're in the preservation of memories business, whether it is from film or digital, doesn't matter. So you're in the preservation of memories business? Kodak, not the film business?

Yeah. My grandfather actually worked in research and development at Kodak, so I wish I could ask him about that. But also my mom went date, was dating somebody who worked in there like this, totally separate. And we went to his house and he had this thing on his refrigerator and it was a circle and it had a hole in the middle of it and. And it was like shiny and it was a scene.

Wait, wait, chronologically, I don't understand that you were born and went with your mother to someone he was dating at Kodak.

My grandfather worked at Kodak his whole career. He started in research, so he worked there his whole entire career. Every single second of. He worked in research and development at Kodak. But then at one point, my mom in this mid-70s had a boyfriend that also worked there. And he was like a hippie, which was hysterical because if you knew, my mom was a teacher, so. But He. He was. He was probably on that team that embedded the digital camera is what I'm saying, because he was in the like, hip, younger, cool guy section.

I think Eastman Kodak had. Is a. Had a huge plant here in Longview. It's actually called some. Something else now. But they did. It was a big chemical plant here. Yeah.

Yeah. It makes me sad. It makes me sad. Like the whole building got. Is gone. I mean, they still are doing some stuff, but it's not the same.

So I read an article recently about like, what's next? The new apps, the new tech on the horizon. Like, we talked about digital photography and Guy talked about like, okay, you know, organizing memories is going to be huge. And how we have. Everybody has a gazillion photos now. You know, where this live, how do we get them? They said the next movement they're seeing. I can't remember who said it, what article it was, but was that we're gonna have with everybody working from home. This hybrid things, this four. Four day at the office thing is that's where the new tech is going to be coming. Like the next zoom. And so I'm really interested to see what you guys think about that. You think that's the next big bang instead of this meta verse stuff?

Or is it, what, a four day work week?

Well, just the tech that makes that happen. Like, because they said it's really going to be. There's a huge market now for how to work at home better. Like, how do you. How do you do that? What's going to be the next zoom kind of a thing?

Well, I got to say that Facebook sent us Oculuses, right? And oh, my God, my kids love it. I mean, holy cow, Peg, you got to tell Facebook we need some more because otherwise I won't have one to do the. No, it's not the money. It's the challenge of shaking down Facebook. I'm putting you on that project. But so, you know. So my son, he found a program to do graffiti, so he's doing graffiti digitally, which is a hell of a lot better than doing it, you know, in real life, let's just say. So, yeah, the Metaverse. Metaverse. Oculus is a winner. And I never would have said that.

You haven't even tried the meetings yet because it's actually really cool. Jeff and I did a short one. It's better than Zoom. Like, you're sitting there and it feels like you're in the room. You have your. Did you make your avatar, Guy?

My Noemi made it. My Daughter made it.

Did she make you?

I don't know. I guess I should look.

I saw that, so I friended you over an Oculus.

It's going to be your daughter. They're going to be like.

But, like, you can a related funny story, right? So this graffiti program. You're actually doing graffiti with other people? And so my son doesn't have an account, so he signs in as Guy Kawasaki. So now, you know, I'm getting a reputation as a graffiti artist, and it's like, you know, there's a nickname. Hey, G.K. how you doing, man? I'm gonna go spray the wall together. And they don't know it's not me.

That's funny.

So, wait, what happened to Jeff?

I don't know.

We lost other plug. I was so excited about you talking about Oculus that I rolled over my cord and unplugged my headset.

Yeah, Duff's been actually on it the longest. He is the most experienced of our team. But I have used mine every day since they sent it. It is very cool.

What do you do with it? You design purses?

I do the Supernatural app, which is workout. I do.

Wait, what? Wait, what do you mean? Are you, like, doing, you know, burpees with it?

What.

What do you do?

It's. You're.

You'll be. You'll be sweating, like, laser swords, and you. And you're, like.

Really?

Yeah. You're, like, dancing and stuing and everything.

That's in my DNA, that sword stuff. So it's called Supernatural.

You have. You got to play beat Saber guy. That's the thing, too. That'll. That's.

That's a little bit more disco, though. Lights. What I like about Supernatural is you're, like, out in the middle of, like, they put you out somewhere great. You're, like, in a great environment, and then it's, like, just you and the teacher and music, and you're hitting all the stop targets.

Is it like, Tyco?

Like, what?

There must be a Taiko. You know what Taiko is? You're from New Hampshire. You never heard of Taiko? Look at the guy from Texas. No Taiko. T A I K O. It's. It's the Japanese drummer thing.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I know what you're talking about. Now.

I don't know if there must be a typo.

Oculus app.

They do have a bunch of, like, virtual instruments. A new air guitar thing came out just recently. But. But pigs that we're talking about, like, the next version of stuff and Peg mentioned workrooms, which it really is. Almost like, I don't like to get in these spaces because it's so real. It's freaky, like, because you're like, what are these people doing? Too close to me. Yes. Back off, dude. But, like, I could be. And they have a pass through, so I can see my keyboard and type and my screens up there. I can go up and write on a whiteboard with Peg there and she can share her screen on there. It's just. It's amazing, the stuff. It's the next zoom.

How to get the posters I made into our workroom.

Yeah. You can have your own logo up there. All sorts of cool stuff. Really?

Yeah. And what app is this?

It's called Horizons Workrooms.

That's one of the ones we're supposed to be working on. Horizons Workroom and Horizon World. Horizon Worlds is the one where you go. And there's other people that you don't know. So that one's like, someone can walk up to you and be like, hey. And then I would be, like, bouncing out of there.

And there's events. There's another. I think it's Horizons events or something where you can go and watch, like, sports games. I've watched a couple times the SpaceX launch before, which is really, really cool. And so there's all sorts of new stuff that's coming. You can actually go see 3D movies now in an app called Big Screen, and you can rent them and watch them. Yeah, it's amazing.

You can do your Netflix account in there. I haven't signed that in yet.

I've done it. It's pretty fun. What?

I can watch, like, Yellowstone in a huge. Yeah.

In a huge Oculus thing. Yeah.

No.

Yeah. You haven't watched a 3D movie until you've watched Oculus.

I will never edit again.

Before you pick it up.

Yeah, but I mean, exactly. The thing is, though, is if you're. If you like 3D movies, you have to wear those dark glasses, which makes the movie dark. In Oculus, you don't. It's automatically. It's just amazing.

The 3D glasses are part of the fun, though.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, so, by the way, if you want to. If you want to geek out with stuff about this, make sure you join the remarkable people community. We don't just talk about weird things like meta, but we also talk about the podcast and some guests that are in there. And, like, you know, like we talked about today, the Trailblazers. Who's your favorite trailblazer? So make sure. You guys go to Bit Ly Remarkable People circle. Sign up for the community as well. And don't forget to go to remarkablepeople.com and download this episode. Follow us over there. Leave us a rating review. You can actually do that by holding up your smartphone and just taking or just clicking on this QR code and bam, you're there. You can leave us a rating review. We'd really appreciate it. And let us know what you think of this week's episode. Right. There we go. Good. I just blew them all away. They're all, like, stunned. Jesus.

Shit. I want to sign up.

That'd be good if Guy would sign up. That would be a good thing.

So. Well.

Thanks, Ben. Ben says, appreciate all of you. Ben, we appreciate you and your questions. Thank you guys for showing up today and for all your comments. Guy, you want to.

Yeah. So today's episode is the Marc Benioff, co founder of Salesforce, former Apple intern for me. And you will learn about philanthropy. You will learn about entrepreneurship. You will learn about why you should be nice to your intern, which is why I am always nice to interns going forward. And someday, Madison Nismer is going to be worth $10 billion. Jeff and Peg, and we're going to say, God, we knew she would be that successful. And she's going to buy us all cars. Electric cars, though.

Who are you again? Yeah.

So Mark Benioff. Truly an inspiration. Truly the man. What a great episode. Just. I wish I could tell you that quote, unquote. I knew he would be this successful, but I didn't see if. If Peg were around back then, she would have picked him out.

I totally would have. I would have been like, mark, you can sit closer to the odd wall of juices that you're so fond of. Let me get you one. And write some more code for me.

Because Peg knows everything. Pke Peg knows everything.

I don't know everything, but I make a good call every once in a while.

Well, you only have to make one of those every seven years. That's good enough for me.

Or one really, really good one.

Yeah, I. E. Canva. That was. That was freaking. That was the. That was like, Peg is the Tom Brady. Although he just lost.

But I think Rich hates Tom Brady.

Oh, but he always makes the right call. True.

But Rich is a Buffalo Bills fan, so it. He hates the Patriots, so he's, like, the only one in New England who's.

Not really Tampa Bay right now.

Yeah, I know, but still. Still, you could not live in New England all this time and not hear about Tom Brady. Tom Brady's the OG he is a goat. He is one of the best athletes of all time. People just love to hate him.

So try being in Texas and not being a Cowboys fan. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I feel Rich's pain. All right, we'll see you guys next time. Thank you for watching. Talk to you later. Bye.