Remarkable People Behind the Podcast: Talking about Tech

Hello, Guy Kawasaki. This is the Remarkable People podcast. No, it's not. We're live on social media.

That's right.

It's the three Podcast of Tears.

It is.

It's Jeff, Guy, and Pig.

So, right.

Jeff is in Texas, God's country. Don't mask with Texas. Peg is in New Hampshire, home of the free. And guys in Santa Cruz, home of the surfer. And this week, yes, is Chris Messina. Chris Messina is perhaps, well, at least initially widely known because, believe it or not, he invented the convention called the hashtag. So imagine if somebody had not figured out a hashtag, and we'd all be searching for God knows what word on social media, looking for content. But he invented it, so. But he's done much more than that now. He's a little bit of a venture capitalist. He also is the most prolific product hunter on Product Hunt, meaning that he's brought the most products to the forefront of attention on Product Hunt. And what have you guys got to say, Jeff and Peg?

Well, first of all, that if you haven't checked out this product, it's really good, especially if you're a tech techie. Any sort of, you know, wanted to know how things worked. I was really surprised on how much behind the scenes they were talking about how to hashtag, you know, that's him, Chris Messina, taking it to Twitter. So if you haven't listened to it yet, make sure you hold up your smart device right up to the screen here, turn on your camera, and then click the link that comes up and download and listen to it. And while you're there, give us a follow and a rating and review, if you would be so kind. Because this is a really good episode. Really? Really. Especially if you're like, tech or entrepreneur and wanting to know how product works. It's really, really good.

And Peg and I discovered that this podcast is on Amazon.

Yeah, it's on Audible. Jeff already knew that. But if you're an Audible listener, you can add remarkable people to your Audible and it will automatically update the episodes for you. So we just want you to know that there's a lot of ways to find this podcast.

We're like Smog.

Smog, but more like your favorite aunt.

Right.

Well, here's wherever.

Here's the. Here is the icebreaker question. What tech do you use daily? That's really. I think I know what Guy uses, but I would. This is even maybe do a little twist on this. Like, what tech if broke, would you go out the next day and buy Guy, what about you?

Well, right now I have to tell we're in this very awkward situation where I'm ipadless. And how did that happen? Yeah, well, it's a long story, but I'm ipadless and I did something so stupid, I'm embarrassed to admit that I caused water damage in my wife's phone. It was so stupid. So now she and I are sharing one phone, and that is a challenge. And so I. You know, the phone is in process of being swapped out, and I can't find any place where I can buy a 13 Pro, because I would just go by. I have. I have come to the conclusion that our family needs to have a spare iPhone just sitting for situations where a phone is broken, cracked, or lost. We cannot go without one phone per person.

What about you, Peg?

Definitely my phone, but I have to say, I have iPads sitting all over that. I just don't even.

Well, send me one.

That's horrible. I have the iPad Pro that Canva sent me that's got that huge screen on it.

Wait, what? Canvas Inch iPad.

You knew that. It was so long ago. You actually told them to send me one. It was a long time ago. It was when. It was when they were working on some features that worked with the iPad.

Oh, you mean when. When Canva was just worth a couple billion?

They may have only been worth 500 million. I mean, I don't even know if they were in. They weren't even a unicorn yet. They were, like, still a shiny pony. So definitely my phone. I mean, I feel like there's so much on there. You check your calendar, you check all this stuff. I don't have an Apple watch, which I wish I could use one, but I'm one of those rare people that had the feedback from it. But I feel like that would have been a useful thing. So I would definitely say my phone and other technology. I mean, obviously computers. But the other day, Rich and I were talking about, like, what it was like before you had to be on the computer all the time. It would be great to have a job where you weren't at a computer all the time. But that I don't. Those are rare these days.

So could work for you could work for cyber ninjas.

You don't have to be mind control or. What is that?

You don't even need to know how to count.

Well, I do know how to count, so just not.

Not live. We don't count live one, because I will hit the wrong button. One of the. So we have some interesting ones here that I wouldn't think about, but somebody Said delivery, which I thought was. I didn't even think about that one. Jonathan says he'd buy a Chromebook. And let's see here. Dadvice TV says I couldn't get through a day without my iPad Pro and iPhone. I tend to only use my computer at a few times a week. Wow, that's great.

Wow.

I try not to do all my work on my phone because it's just so bad for your eyes, you know, to be. Unless. I mean, I did. My latest glasses. I got. I did get blue light blocking in my regular glasses. Yeah. Yeah.

I would say for. I'm kind of with dad advice tv, that. I mean, I think everybody's phone, if their phone went gone. I think most people would say that would be the first thing. But I would go out the next day if my iPad Pro went. Because I use it to consume content. I type on it, I edit videos, all sorts of things. And. And then my watch. I just love both of those things to death.

You Type on your iPad Pro on the screen or you have a Bluetooth keyboard.

I have one of those. It's not the Apple keyboard because I didn't like the way it did. It's the Logitech one that has the removable one that's really handy. And then your pencil goes right on top of that. The new Apple pencil, I think, is amazing. The version 2, it just.1. It charges and it sits right up there perfectly. You never have to have it, like, loose, like this one, but it always.

Should have been that way.

Yeah. Because the way you charge. You just stick it in and it just looks like it's gonna break off. You know what I mean? I just don't like it. But the new one, the sensitivity for drawing and all sorts of stuff is amazing.

It was a very inelegant design. You could tell Steve Jobs was not involved at all with it being plugged into the bottom and sticking out. It was like the ugliest thing I've ever seen from Stupid.

It was like a colostomy. I mean, it was.

Well, what were you gonna say, guy, about? Just that it was.

Speaking of great pencils, I mean, the remarkable tablet has the best pencil, right? You don't need to charge it. And it feels like a pencil because you are actually physically wearing out the nib. And you can erase just by flipping it around just like a pencil. So that's. That is the most amazing pencil.

Yeah, there's just sticks on the side on the. On the remarkable two. Yeah, it's very nice that it's just connected.

Yeah. So Jonathan says he lived for without a cordless phone for a long time. There's joy in untangling a phone cord. I'll trade my phone away.

I miss a regular phone, I gotta say.

Remember when you used to go around that and like hide around the corner where your parents couldn't see you when you were talking to your to ride to Rich is probably what it was.

My mom was never home, so it was pretty much my sister and I are fighting over who got to use the phone.

Paul says the remarkable tablet is great for research sessions.

Shout out to my sister if you're watching.

What does your sister do?

My sister works in technology as well. She works for a home security company. Oh, my sister is very techy. When phones were like regular phones were a thing, she actually took it all apart to see see how it worked and got it back together, which is important.

Nice.

That's cool. So back to our podcast episode today is Chris Messina. If you haven't heard him before, Guy talked about it a little bit at the very, very beginning that he is Product Hunt. And one of our questions is, have you ever used Product Hunt? I used to use it a lot when I was doing research for Social Media examiner because we would always have to have apps for his podcast and we'd have to like what apps, and we'd always use Product Hunt for that. I haven't used it much since then, but I have gone in there a couple times. It's a really cool idea in the way that it works.

I just use Peg Hunt. When Peg says try this app.

Try. Takes a lot to get me to try an app these days, though, to be honest. Like, I'm so like married to my ways. I have to say there still isn't one way to do everything that you want to do with social media. It's like sometimes you just want things to do X and it does a lot of other things. So you're always making a choice on which thing works. But I do think that I've never actually searched on Product Hunt for things, but I have left reviews for companies. I know Canva has used Product Hunt I think I saw three times. They did it for an initial one so long ago, like nobody knew what Product Hunt was except for probably Chris Messina. And they did it for a couple other updates. So you can do it for updates to your apps as well. But I think that it is a place where you can go and read people's reviews. It's a little bit like Amazon where you know, you know that people are asking for their super fans to write the reviews.

So kind of like we are.

What do you mean?

For our, for our podcast.

Right, right, right. But I mean, I think we also get other reviews too that will say I think honest reviews are best, regardless if you ask for them or not. I have a hard time with that, with, with books. I never leave bad reviews for books. I just won't leave a review if it's not my favorite book because I think it hurts the author so much and I know how bad reviews feel for a book. So if it's not my favorite, I just don't leave a bad review. But if it's great, then I will leave a review on.

On a prior episode of Remarkable Peepee People, Bob Cialdini, the godfather of Influence, said that the ideal average score for a book or a podcast is 4.4, 4.5, 4.6. Because if it's 5, it looks like you just stacked the deck and obviously you don't want a low score. So the score that is, you know, kind of Credible is about 4.5 or 4.4, which if you look at our score is 4.4.

Perfect. Right on track. We've been getting a lot of new reviews and too. So thank you people who are going to leave reviews.

Yes, yes. Thank you so much. And if you need some help doing that, you can just go right here with your smartphone.

I have a plug for a product service that I just experienced and I am just so impressed with the quality of it. And so we're in the middle of moving and there's this company called Pods. So it's this container thing and they, they come to wherever you want, they drop it off, you load it up, they pick it up, and then they can either store it until your new house is ready or new apartment is ready, or they can ship it across the country, or they meet you at your new house, they drop it off and then you unload and then they pick it up. And I, like, I, I had to meet one yesterday and the guy was, you know, the, the service window was 9 to 12, and he was there at 8:30. And I didn't expect him to be there at 8:30. So I got there at like quarter to nine. So I pull into the driveway and he's already got the thing loaded, rocking and rolling and ready to go. I was so impressed. So if you have to move stuff or store stuff temporarily, check out pods.

Mypods.com yeah, a lot of, so a lot of people love Pods. Use them for a long time ago and just got a quote from my upcoming re. Location to Detroit. Yeah. So I know a lot of people use them. A lot of people will also use them for remodels. They'll put like the stuff they need in there and they'll. And they'll do that while they. Because you don't have room or whatever.

So.

Yeah, great.

Maybe I'll put one of my kids in there.

That's where my mother in law is going, people.

You're gonna get it, Jeff.

Yeah.

If Jody listens to this show randomly.

Yes. Maybe she could be. She's at school right now.

I'm sure. I'm sure our biggest fans for our live show are Beth and Jody.

Yeah. And Rich.

Can't wait to watch it.

Yeah. So. So where do you guys go find new tools? So we mentioned Product Hunt, which is a lot of us have used. I like, I still get stuff from Appsumo because they usually have things that they're, you know, affiliates with or whatever. But I found some good stuff on apps. Sumo. I mean, I love the. Since I use stock photos so much, they always have a deal for like deposit photos, which I use all the time. Yeah.

So one of my favorite things is that Guy actually showed me because it was. I used something on there. But the set app I love because you pay one thing and then there's all these apps in there.

Oh, you told me about that.

Your Mac. Yeah, I love it. Text Soap is the one that Guy loves. Cleanshot X I use. And then there's one called Text Sniper that you can like highlight text and it actually copies the text off of like anything on the Internet and then you can just grab it. So that's one that I like usually Guy, like I said, we recommend each. We recommend them. We're like, try this thing.

I just want people to understand. Tech Sniper, let's say you have. It's a sign. It's a bitmap. It's not selectable text. But what Text Sniper does is you just. You just draw your rectangle around it and it translate unselectable text to text. It's really quite remarkable. They work so well.

Does it work on your mobile device too, or is it just on desktop?

I think it's just Mac apps.

Yeah, I think it's just Mac apps.

Okay, yeah.

Cool.

So if you don't. If you have a Mac, you should have that because it has Clean my Mac in there, which is essential. Yeah.

Opaque. I was using clean shot till about a few days Ago. I cannot figure out that, you know, like when is it on my clipboard? When isn't it on my clipboard? Do I have to save as and then when I save as, do I have to use preview to open it? And just. I just went back to the Apple system of Command Shift 4 and. Or really Command. Yeah, I like.

The reason that I like the cleanshot X is that it has a little thing where you can capture a scroll, a scrolling capture. So when I'm creating a report that has a longer thing in it and I want a lot a different size graphic, you can scroll through the website and like make a. So if it's out of the top thing. So there's some use cases that I like for that.

Real men. So we should ask the question, what is your favorite Macintosh screen capture app? Because I'm looking for one.

I use that one.

Good.

What is the one I use? Sniply. Is that it?

I used. I think I used to use that one.

It's in my toolbar.

I like it. It just stays up in the top menu.

I got it for being a speaker at a conference and I've used it ever since. Yeah, so I love freeze.

You're highly compensated.

I love freeze. Just like it was like that. Give somebody that or get Guy Kawasaki.

Yeah, it was that or 75 grand.

Yeah.

So this is one speech a year. If I made 75 grand, I would be like, you are the chosen one and I will come here every time. I'll be home.

No, I thought it was nice. It was a sold speaker bag thing and I thought it was good. I love your software. So here's Peg. I want you to explain this one. This was your question. So did you watch the movie the Social Dilemma? Why is this important compared for this podcast episode?

Because Chris Messina is in the Social Dilemma and our previous guest, Tim Kendall was also in the Social Dilemma. And I feel like this movie came out, made a huge splash and people kind of forgot about it. And I still feel like it's a really important topic because of the way that your data is being used in and the choices that we're making to be on the Internet. You know, what are the ramifications of that? Like, you know, where's your data going? TikTok, for example, you know, there's the big thing about TikTok and them gathering all your data and everybody is still on TikTok. They were worried it was going to be taken away, but not worried that their data was being sold or used in weird ways. So I feel like the social dilemma really pointed out a lot of good things. And it and the people that were in it were all very entrenched in tech, like Chris Messina, who just knows all those, you know, Tristan, and, you know, it was all people who were involved at highest levels. Tim Kendall worked at Facebook in the. He started the monetization program. So how is Facebook going to make money? Before they were making any money, he worked on how that was going to happen. And then after that he went to pay Pinterest and worked on there. He ended up being the CEO or president. He ended up working. You know, he's the highest level, but he started out the same thing, working with like advertising and monetization. So two of. Two of the biggest tech companies. You know, he obviously knows how stuff is being used. So the social dilemma, if I'm interested to know, did people watch it? Did they watch it once when it came out? Did they not care? What's up with that?

I watched it. I think I did not remember Chris Messina being in there. But this is the interesting thing, okay? So it's very scary, especially if you're like us and we work in marketing and social media. It's like, oh, where's part of the problem? Or. But then what Apple's doing. And so I think it has to do with how seamless people can opt out of their data because everybody, they're saying that everybody's hitting, yes, quit tracking my stuff. Like, nobody's going, yes, Facebook, please track me. You know, they just, they just don't do that. And I think it's the seamless way that it's built into the interface that Apple has done. So I think if we want privacy, we've got to make it super easy for people to opt out. And I think that's going to happen more and more. Like, what's going on? Like, I just had to do it on my website, update all those cookie permissions and, you know, the terms of service. And California is different than the European Union and all this stuff. And so I think we're going to get a standard before too long and it'll just be blanket. So.

Yeah, well, the GDPR was the strictest in California was a little bit different because you can't keep anybody's data. But if you don't have anything like that on your website, it's important that you do, especially if you're doing any kind of tracking. Like Google Analytics. Yeah, Pixels. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, those things are annoying. So you're trying to look at a website and then it pops up. It's like, do you accept or not accept? And it's like, what happens if you don't accept? Do you not see parts of it? You know, it's never clear what really happens.

Right. So Jonathan says people love to be tracked. Look at Disney's magic bands. People line up and pay to be tracked.

So they don't have magic bands or do they still have them?

They did for a long time. They are phasing them out, but they're still tracking you because they're even with the new genie thing.

Magic band is the greatest invention ever. If you're a Disney person, it's just like the Apple Watch, but it's just for Disney. So you get these. Everybody in your family gets a little band and then you just, you use it to go on the ride.

Fast Pass. You can put your credit card on it. Yeah.

And the girl, our girls figured out that it was connected to their dad's credit card. So they were like, at the store.

Is this a recent development? Because I never had a magic band at Disneyland.

I don't know. It was the last couple years.

They did them at Disney World.

They are moving to something new though, now.

Yeah, they got rid of fast passes.

They're still tracking you, though. Now everything's moving to your mobile app. So they're still tracking. So they came out with a new Genie plus and the new FastPass stuff. And so it's the same way on the cruise ships. It's just they're doing it because they can track. It's the same reason, like, all these stores are wanting you to use their apps and they give you all these discounts. Like, even McDonald's will give you a free hamburger if you use their Apple.

Or they have WI FI stores. They have WI fi. Use every WI Fi you'll see every aisle you went in and how long you stayed there. Sure, Target.

And so what? No, seriously, so what if they know that.

Well, as long as I get a free hamburger, I don't care.

Maybe. So what? Or maybe they're. I don't know. I mean, the thing with Target is they have an app and then they have this circle program, if that you're part of and you have to go in and manually add the coupon to get it instead of just giving you X amount when you scan your little thing. So their. Their thing is kind of malarkey.

I. I have to say that. So I love cars, right? So I'm always reading car reviews. And as soon as I Started reading car review of. Yeah. The Volvo V60 T8 or S60 T8. Then all of a sudden, Google News starts sending me more. More reviews of the Volvo S60 T8, including from the Hindustan Times and the Malaysia Today. Right. And I kind of like that. I would review in the Hindustan Times. So track me, baby.

Well, I think it depends on if you're a shopper or not. If you're somebody who likes to shop. I think the chaser ads don't bother you as much because they're showing you more of what you like, which is. Yeah, Pinterest. The more I pin things that I like and pin things other places, the more Pinterest sends me more things that I like.

I found some great software and tools and stuff from Instagram. They have some of the best algorithms for ads that I think is. I mean, I wish Facebook would do it on their desktop because, I mean, I'm getting stuff that's relevant to me that I'm interested in, like video editing stuff, new tools, you know, all that stuff. And it's very. It's very, very well done. And it doesn't bother me like Facebook ads does.

I get all. I get all makeup.

So we gotta help. But Jonathan, he says, target is killing my marriage. So, sorry. Don't say the T word around Jonathan.

If you do something bad, Jonathan, you know what gift card to get.

What did that guy say about pods?

Oh, yes. He says pods are awesome. Yeah, he used them last month and he said they were originally. The guy came up with the idea because they were like boatyards. Yeah. So very cool.

Yeah.

He's swinging from chains on an RSD car. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly, exactly.

In fact, the carriers from boats.

Yeah.

If you go to my Instagram account, I posted a short video of the pod guy removing the pod from his truck. Or was he adding it or something? I have a little video. Pods in action. I like that company so much. That's cool.

So he's just. Now he's evangelist for pods.

I want to be a brand ambassador for pods.

So Paul says Pinterest, it's a great algorithm for finding stuff that he likes. Yeah, I agree. And he doesn't mind the targeted ads. There's a lot of targeted ads now on Pinterest, but they are very, very targeted.

Okay, so this is a question I know Peg can answer. All right, so as you know, we just got a new house, and so we need to buy a lot of stuff. And I used to years Ago, which is a long time ago when we bought our other house, I would go to Houzz. H O U S Z, I think. And there are so great ideas. Right? Like everywhere. And now you go to Houzz, and it seems like it's one big directory of interior decorators as opposed to getting ideas. So did I miss something? Did Houzz just completely change what it is?

It did change it. It doesn't show you as much like what you want. I actually have better luck on Pinterest. I kind of did a style. You do a style quiz and then you look for a specific thing. Like, I want to redo the hood over our. We have a Viking range and I want to do like a custom hood over it. So I'm looking for them. And I found better things on Pinterest than I did on Houzz.

Really? Huh. Well, I have a French range. I can't remember the name, though.

Yeah, you have this starts with a C Corner.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So back to the podcast house. I haven't been in for a long time. That's my whole job, if you haven't noticed, is just steering it back. And if you'd like to, by the way, find it, you can just go here, this nice little QR code, or to remarkablepeople.com and we'd love for you guys to download. This is very, very interesting podcast. And one of the questions that I would. That I think I. I brought up is because he invented them or he renamed the pound sign. You could say it either way. How often do you actually use hashtags? And this is. Chris Machina came up with this. He actually went to Twitter. They said no at first, and then.

It kind of was that nobody would use it.

Yeah. So how often I was thinking about this, like, how often do you use hashtags? I don't usually search by hashtags. I don't know if I'm like the odd man out or. But do you use them? Vague. I know you're on Instagram.

I use them all the time. I search for them because I use them. So I want to see, you know, when I'm posting on Instagram and guys account, is it, you know, what hashtags are? Is it going with, you know, you don't want to use ones that have. So there's different use cases too, because you can use them on LinkedIn, you can use them on Twitter. You can use them no longer on Pinterest. Was no then yes then no for Pinterest. So I Do use them and I search for things and also I follow hashtags on Instagram and Twitter, so I'll see things that are related to those.

But if you weren't a marketing maven and you know, would you do that, like, when you're in your personal.

I mean, I use it even more like, say I'm going on a trip. When I went to Italy and I was going to be in Milan, I researched places where I want to take photos. I found specific times of day that I wanted to take the photos. Then I used my little Golden Hour app and timed it so I had to be at this museum at a certain time. Rich loved it.

Wait, what's that got to do with hashtags?

I found the. I found all the places that I want to take photos of on hashtags.

No, but what hashtag would you use to find a place to take photos in Milan?

I think I. I had a whole bunch of different groups that I founded found that was like, it was not your basic ones, but it was like Sunset in Milan. And so I found like photos that I like. It was. It's a cool way to find, like, you can even do it locally. You're in Santa Cruz. You could like look for Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz Sunset, for example, and see like specific places where people took photos. But I got some great photos or.

Hashtag, what platform am I using this hashtag on to do this?

Instagram. I did that on Instagram.

You can do them on all of them except Pinterest. Like Twitter, Facebook.

Yeah, but I mean, you find different things. I think LinkedIn people are only sort of using hashtags and they're. You see people that are kind of putting too many, like Instagram. I think really the hashtag use is like 5 or 6 max anywhere now. For a while it was up to 30, but even Instagram came out and said, Just use five to six.

I do know Instagram. It does make a difference if you use hashtags. You do get a boost on your post. So.

And they did finally come out and say that it's better if it's in the direct post versus putting them in the comments. That was one of the things that people always said, put it in the comments because it'll help. But they actually just want it all in one thing. So if you want to do them on Instagram, use five to six and put them right in the description.

What about you, Guy? Do you search with hashtags? Never.

I never search for anything.

Basically, Guy doesn't use hashtags I go in and back clean up on his post and like add a location and, and I put hashtag.

And people like people on the outside looking and says, my God, guy really understands how to use hashtags. Oh, if they only knew.

So I guess Peg would have to answer this question. Jonathan asked, what platform is most effective for hashtags, would you say it'd be Instagram still?

I would say Instagram, yes. But LinkedIn, you know, LinkedIn is up and coming. Things trend on LinkedIn and sometimes they pull posts and share that and they make it like a news story. One of my friends, Sarah Hawkins, who's an attorney, she shares very relevant information about like copyright laws and things like that. And people follow her for that. And she, one of her stories got pulled up and was in the story that they were featuring. So she got a lot of visibility from that. And Andy Crestedina is another person who. He uses hashtags and his stuff really does well, I see. Yeah, he's very smart.

So okay, that same question, but Jonathan says is, do you follow hashtags outside of ig? So they don't really, they don't really work cross platform though. I mean like one hashtag may not mean the same on another platform, would it?

No. Well, they could mean the same or they could be different. So if you're going to use a hashtag, it's always a good idea to check it on the different platforms. But you can follow hashtags on Twitter, LinkedIn and Instagram. So I do, I do that because then I see more things that I like in my feed. So specifically I like to see what other podcasts are posting. So I'll, you know, follow a couple things so I can see what people are posting.

Yeah. So hashtags. Chris Messina, we have to thank for that. The guest on today's episode of the podcast, which, which I was going to.

Say was an open source idea that he created, he obviously doesn't make any money for that. So it was just a great idea that he shared to make the community better.

And that leads right into the last question that I wanted to talk about was do you use open source software? Some people may not even know if they use open source software before. But I really wanted to know how guy thought about open source because Apple of course is definitely not open source. So do. Is there like a. I don't even know how it works. It's like, is there like a love hate relationship between the open source people and the, you know, for profit people? You know, how does. What are your thoughts on Open source, Guy?

I'm all about. I believe in, you know, the more people pounding on keyboards, making your stuff good, the better. And the concept that only your company understands how to make this right is kind of just not believable to me. But having said that, I'm not exactly an engineer or programmer, but I'm a supporter.

Well, we've had two different people. We've got Chris Messina and then we had the guy who did RSS who was on a couple of.

Weiner.

Dave Weiner. Yeah. I mean, he. They're both big open source and it's almost like it sounded from Chris like it's almost like a religion, like they're doing it for the greater good. They have this mission in their life to do this because it's going to help as many people as possible and they want to get it out there.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like Apple's mission.

But. But then those are also the people who don't make. Haven't made as much money over their careers. Not that that should be your goal.

Right. They're not in it for the money.

No, they're not.

At least originally. They're not. They're like, dang it.

I wish I. Yeah, our podcast is open source. Right. You can download it. We put the transcript up. I mean, how much more can we give you?

Yeah, podcasts. One of the. And that was from Dave Weiner because of rss, because it's built on the back of that. I mean, you think about all the stuff that open source has done, you know, blogs, podcasting, you know, the hashtag search. Yeah. You know, all this stuff. So.

But people have made whole careers from it. I mean, like podcasting, you see podcasts that like get picked up. Then it's a Netflix show or a YouTube channel that's a, you know, picked up for. Net, Instagram, whatever. I mean, it's. It's interesting how people take things and make them into other things and figure out a way to make a living doing that.

I remember the. Back in the day having to try to. All these steps to get a podcast downloaded on your. Like zoom or zero, whatever. That Dell MP3 player that was a knockoff of the ipod or was or whatever. And just the steps you had to do and how it eventually went. I mean, I remember waiting for things to draw, downloading, you know, BBS boards.

So here's a. Here's an interesting theoretical question. So don't you think that if Amazon made it so you could read your book on any device they would sell more books.

I don't know anymore if that would be true.

Well, there's a free Kindle app. So you can.

Yeah, you can read on your iPhone.

Yeah. But you can't read it on your Remarkable.

You can convert. You can actually do it. You can actually send it. Well, you can't buy a book and read on your markable. Yeah, you'd have to convert it to a PDF and I don't think they'd let you do that.

No, but okay, like specifically why would Amazon not let Remarkable if. Let's say I legitimately bought an Amazon Kindle book and I want to read it on my remarkable tablet. What? Just because Amazon wants to sell more Kindles?

I guess I think they wanted to dominate the platform. I don't know if it's because you can like read it on your iPhone for free. You don't have to buy. I could. I read a lot of stuff on my iPad because I can take notes on it. That's one of my favorite things to do is take notes. And so. And that's the free app. So of course I have a Kindle that I use all the time too, but it doesn't matter. But yeah, that's an interesting point. I think it's probably because they wanted to dominate the ebook market, the hardware market.

Keep it closed.

Well, I think ebook. I think they wanted to be the ebook person and then that's why also they bought Audible and that stuff. So I think they just wanted to dominate it. Anything to do with books.

Does domination mean you sell the most ebooks or you sell the most readers? Hardware readers?

I think it's ebooks. I think they want. They went kill the ebook. They wanted to own ebooks because they already owned publishing.

But the thing is, if you just. If you have to buy the ebook anyway, why not offer it in two versions? One that you can do here and one you can get a PDF to put wherever.

Because they can track it and sell you other things. It's like anything else.

They can still track it if you buy it.

Yeah, but it's really weird. They still have to do all the back end stuff. So they don't pay. Like I can't go to the Amazon app and buy an ebook. I have to go through the Amazon website on my phone.

Right.

Because it's just total. If you ask me, that is total freaking Apple.

Because they don't want to do the 30%. Right, right.

That's like the same person who decided not to put a whole and The Apple tag is the person who said, oh, you can't buy books from the Amazon app on iOS. It's the same bullshit thinking. You want to know how I read the key?

That's right. So Open Source software. Chris Messina today. I mean, it was very. To hear his passion about Open Source. I mean, it really did open my eyes on how intense and the reason behind Open Source. I just thought it was like it was two dudes in a garage and they just like, hey, let's just throw it out there, you know. But it's no, it's like a whole movement of like, we're doing this for the greater good. And so I thought that was really interesting in the podcast that I wasn't. I always get little nuggets that I wasn't expecting from guys interview, And it's just not me. I'm sure that's other people too. So that's a good question. We should ask, like, what is the biggest takeaway you have you have gotten from the podcast episode? Yeah, what? Any episode. Like, man, like, I would love to know if you guys are listening. Let us know and we'll. And we'll make sure we read it next week. But let us know, like, even would be great if you go leave us a review and say, I really like this episode because of. And let us know why. Because it would be interesting.

You know, what can I point out? Like, if we were really doing this podcast, right. In my humble opinion, we. We have great guests, we have great editing, we have great sound design, we have great. We have everything. But we do not have the ability to build a community around remarkable people podcasts. There should be a community of people saying, like what Jeff just asked. You know, this is the thing I learned most or the most interesting thing I learned from Chris Messina. If we had a community, community would also. We could tell them, okay, so these are the people. This is our schedule for interviews. You know, I'm. I'm interviewing Pat Flynn this afternoon so people in the community could write the questions they think I should ask Pat Flynn. I could, you know, tap the wisdom of the crowd. But right now I really don't have a way to do that.

We could do that. I'm telling you how to do that. One of my. He's the OG podcaster. I think he started podcasting when it first started. Is Lou Mongello when he started doing his stuff. And he's got a huge community.

How did he do?

Yeah, he just started one he uses live, which we were doing. But he also has he does stuff in the Facebook group where he asks questions. He uses Facebook a lot. You don't have to do it on Facebook.

You just asked the question, though. So anybody who's live right now, if you have a question for Pat Flynn, who is an amazing podcaster and YouTuber, he's done pivots, He's. He has classes.

He's invented things. Yeah.

He's what?

Invented things? Did you say that?

Yeah, he's an inventor.

Watch them all. Tripod thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Switchpod. The switchpod. So, yeah, if you have questions for Pat Flynn, tags, tag guy at Guy Kawasaki and say ask Pat this. If you probably do hashtag Ask Pat, he'll probably see it because he has a podcast and YouTube channel called Ask Pat. So.

So Jonathan says you're building it through this very chat. Create a Facebook page or forum. You know, if we didn't want to do Facebook, we could also do. What is the other one? Michael Hyatt uses it. There's another platform that you can use to build things on. So, yeah, I mean, we could.

We have built communities before for Google specifically. We never did Facebook groups, but what the. Plus Facebook groups, they have an algorithm on there and they don't show everybody things. And honestly, it's a lot of you entertaining people versus people seeing things that you post. That's. That's the thing.

There's some great, some great communities inside of groups. But once again, you're building platform on rented land and you never know, Facebook's going to start charging. So I can see both sides of it.

There must be a solution to this problem.

We could create a forums world. So. And Jonathan asked what happened to Blab, the video podcast app that was. There was a lot of stuff in there. Blab pretty much blew it is what I think is they, they didn't follow me because there was so many people on there that were really interesting. Yeah. Jonathan says, where's your audience at? Hanging out. Put your forum there.

AOL.

You'Ve got mail.

CompuServe.

Oh. Sue goes, maybe you should have a hashtag for this community.

We do. It's called hashtag Remarkable people. I use it all the time.

Yeah. We should ask our community what they would want. If they would want a. Do they want a Facebook community or would they want. You know, Twitter communities is actually rolling out pretty soon. There's some other things, but there's some other platform a lot of people build them. Gosh, I can't even remember. It's a membership. Not a membership thing, but it's I.

Don'T want to do a membership Discord.

Discord is another big one. They do.

Discord is a thing. I haven't been there. The kids use Discord. Do your kids use that Guy?

I use Discord.

I'm in constant discord with them. What is Discord?

It's like Slack for gamers is the easiest way to say it.

Right. It's a communication tool that they use when they.

Oh yes, yes, they use it.

But it's never been really popular. Some people use Slack channels. LinkedIn groups are dead. I just don't think they're even worth it anymore. Too spammy. But yeah, we could, we could definitely think about having a platform because it would be really cool to crowdsource questions.

But it does take a long time to build it up. That's the thing. I mean, even on Google, it took a long time to. You build up the community and then. Yeah, so Facebook, we never did a group in that because of that.

It's just Jonathan, he has a great point. He goes decision via communities is chaotic, dictated to us. So he just wants to be told where to go.

So, okay, if we ever decide, we'll let you know. But we do use hashtag remarkable people. So if you share the podcast, use hashtag remarkable people. Because I do retweet them from Guy's account when I see them if people are sharing it. So yeah, and we would appreciate that.

And also we would appreciate you guys leaving us a rating review if you have not done that already. If you have. Thank you very much. We really appreciate it does help get the podcast out there and helps us think about starting a community. We'll just have to see. But just hold up your smartphone to this or go to remarkablepeople.com and give us a rating review. So he says go. Jonathan says go to TikTok, right? Call the TikToks and tell them who you are. Yeah. You've done a TikTok, haven't you, with your daughter? I think I remember seeing that.

I did one, yeah. One and done.

All right, So any follow up questions? Did I cover everything? Did I ask all the questions?

I think so, yeah. I mean, basically, if you guys are interested in technology, this is a really interesting peek behind Silicon Valley and why people choose to do things the way they do. Open source or monetized or. Yeah, it was a good one.

And next week I'll just tease that it is one that you would not think about ever. I would have never thought that this would be an episode.

Guys like who is it?

But it's really. It's Olympia Yarger. But it's fascinating. It's another one that's just, like, fascinating to me. So make sure to subscribe so you'll get notifications that when we have new episodes@remarkable people.com. because this one is just you. Would you. I could have not picked this out of a lineup or anything. It's like. But it is really fascinating, and it has to do with sustainability and, you know, it goes from, you know, ptsd, military stuff to this other thing, and it's just like, what? And it's. It's really good. So teasing right now. Yeah.

I had no idea. I mean.

Yeah.

So, you know. You know the scene in the Graduate where Mr. Robinson says, Plastics.

I think the future is plastics, Ben.

Yeah.

The future is maggots.

Yes. So that. I mean, you. I, like I said, never would have thunk, but it's really, really good. It's really good. So. So Steven says he is walking, watching this on the smartphone. So see, obviously over on YouTube. Yeah, very cool. Thank you, Stephen.

Obviously, he didn't lose his smartphone or have water damage like mine.

I thought they're waterproof.

Not if you don't have the SIM tray in.

Oh, well, that would. Yeah, that would break the agreement there.

Such a dumbass. I am.

All right, you can let you.

I am a dumbass.

I broke my wife.

Please don't. That's not gonna be our community at all. So, guys, I'll let you have the last word before we sign off.

Just another great week. It's been fun. So, yeah, please subscribe, listen to it, review it, send me questions. I have two hours before I interview Pat Flynn, YouTuber, podcaster, blogger. His most famous, probably content effort is the.

Oh, my God.

What is it? Pig.

Smart passive income. Smart passive income.

Smart passive income. Duh. Yes. Smart passive income. And the first question I'm going to ask him is, why do you call it passive? You work so hard.

Good question.

Good question.

See? Beat that question, everybody. Send Guy your question. See if it can be.

So you can tweet it, tag Guy, or you can put it in the comments on LinkedIn or YouTube or Facebook, wherever you're watching.

So Paul says, thanks for joining me on my walk through the forest. Glad you found your way out, Paul. Thank you. And he goes, great podcast. Well, thanks, Paul. If you haven't rated and reviewed us, we would love you guys. He'd love you to do that. So with that, we'll see you guys next week. Make sure to go to remarkablepeople.com check it out. And with that, we'll see you guys next time.

Bye.