Total Leadership: Be a Better Leader, Have a Richer Life | Stew Friedman | Talks at Google

Morning everybody. Thanks for coming to another of our leading at Google speaker series. I'm very pleased today to introduce Professor Stu Friedman from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. Stu got his PhD from University of Michigan in Organizational psychology. He's been teaching at Wharton since 1984, except for a brief stint with the Ford Motor Company where he ran their leadership development program for a number of years. He's going to talk today about his book which some of you got, Total Leadership, which is really about taking domains in our lives that seem so at odds, work, family, community and personal, and bringing them more into alignment so they complement each other. You'll hear more about that in just a minute. He has consulted with various corporate and government entities, including being an advisor on work life and work family issues for then Vice President Alexander Gore and Working Mother magazine. I think this is kind of cool. Working Mother magazine voted him as One of America's 25 most influential men in terms of improving life for working parents. So without further ado, I introduce Professor Stu Friedman. Thanks Stu.

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here with you, spend an hour with you to tell you about this program that I developed while I was at Ford, but that came out of work that I've been doing for the last couple of decades. It's a special treat to be introduced by Evan who used to work with us at Wharton. We miss him terribly. But it seems like you're having a great time here, so it's great to see you here and again, thanks for having me. Total leadership, whole person, creating sustainable change among the different domains of life as I call them, work, home, community and the private self, which is mind, body, spirit. How do you bring those together in ways that create better performance in all of them? So most people think about trading off one part for another. What I'm going to tell you about is a program that again, I started about 10 years ago and I've been now offering at Wharton in our executive MBA program which I launched tonight here in San Francisco at Wharton West. But I also teach in the east coast as well as in a number of different companies and in workshops here in the US and in Europe. Just two days ago I was in Austin, Texas with a company called Bazaar Voice. Any of you hear of Bazaar Voice? Do you know them? They're a high growth company that brings consumer feedback to the marketplace, social commerce. And so we did an afternoon on this launching a total leadership program for their whole company. It was a lot of fun and yet that's a company culture that is already quite advanced in terms of fully embracing the needs and interests of the whole person, as your amazing company is clearly. So I'm not here to tell you how to sort of fix something that's already working so beautifully, but rather to offer some ideas and a way to think about how to go from here to here, and perhaps here in terms of how you think about bringing the different parts of life together for you and for the people around you. So when I think about leadership, similar to how I think you conceive of it here, it's not something that belongs to executives or managers. It belongs to everyone. It's a limitless resource. Leadership is about mobilizing resources to get important things done. And you can do that at any level, at any career stage. In fact, we've got a version of this program that's in design now as a video game for high school kids. Because what I'm finding from some market testing and some pilot work in high schools that young people are also interested in, how do you bring the different parts of life together for mutual gain and not have to necessarily make sacrifices across them? So the book is my course essentially illustrated with the examples of people who've been in it, where I kind of take you and walk you step by step through the process. And what I want to do in this morning session is to give you an overview of that and then give you a taste of it. So we'll do an exercise that's a part of it to illustrate what the thing is about and maybe have you get some ideas about changes that you might try, because this is really all about creating sustainable change, which is a difficult thing to do. I read the Fortune interview with Larry Page last week, and he says in this about the startup of your company and how it almost didn't happen because of what he referred to as we had all this internal risk. We had just invented internal risk inside our own heads that we had just kind of made up. It's not clear that it's not that we were going to starve or not get jobs or not have a good life or whatever, but, and here's the point. You have this fear of failing and of doing something new, which is very natural. Fear of failing, of doing something new, which is very natural. In order to do the stuff that matters, you need to overcome that. And I can see that your company is built around helping people to overcome the natural fears of change. And that's what my approach is also intended to help people to do. So I'd like To give you just a quick overview of the kind of background to this approach and to do an assessment that kind of illustrates one of the important pieces of it that helps you to look at your current state of, let's call it, alignment of the different domains and to generate ideas for experimentation or change that are intended to produce what I call a four way win. A change that will have a benefit for work, for, for home, for community and for self. However you define those domains, that is something that the people in those domains really want for you. So this is not just about doing something that's good for you and not for others. It's got to be good and sustainable for the people around you. So how do you get smart about how to do that is sort of the trick. Let me start by asking this question, kind of big picture sort of question. You think about The World Today, May 2008. How would you respond to this question in a word or phrase? What do we need now? What kind of leadership do we need now? Sorry. Positive, hopefully hopeful, inspiring. Okay, other thoughts? Diplomatic. Why is that so important and what does that mean really?

It's really in relation to sort of the aggressive stance of international foreign policy.

Okay, so thinking in the political arena, someone we need people who can see the world from many different points of view. Diplomatic. What else? Flexible. Flexible. Why is flexibility important? Well, because the times are changing. There's a lot of variables going on that can't be set in one specific. All right, so adaptive, flexible, able to take on different forms. Yes. Inclusive. What does that mean? Could you elaborate? Allowing all views, all opinions, all thoughts, considering all people. All right, so recognizing the wide diversity of human life and preferences for how things get done. Inclusive of those. What else? Sacrificing of what? Like a lot of people, they're just thinking of what personally I'm gaining instead of what I'm going to do for others. All right, so taking more of an orientation towards serving other people rather than just pursuing self interest. Do I have that right? All right, we could probably spend the next hour just on this one question alone. Let me ask another one. Would I have heard the same responses if I'd have asked a group of people in a company when I first started teaching at the Wharton School in 1984, would I have heard the same things or would I have heard different things? How would it be different? Did you say same? Yeah, same things. I think it'd be different. How? I think because in those days is infra traditional and I think we're in a stage of Non traditional, and opening up the limits and boundaries. Some things are perhaps the same, but there are many things that are very, very different that require a different way of thinking about leadership. Again, we could spend a lot of time on this, and I write about this in the book, but just to briefly summarize, what we're seeing is that the most effective kind of leadership is one that looks at life as a whole. And the more you can account for the real passions that drive people, as this company does so well, and to bring those in to the different parts of life, including and especially work, the more power and effectiveness and impact those people can have on your collective goals, your collective interests. So we talked about influence at all levels and demonstrating, I think the three keys are authenticity, that is just being real, being yourself, knowing what really matters, integrity, which I think of as bringing the pieces together into an integral whole, as one and third, creativity, continually experimenting with how things get done and developing greater capacity to do what Larry Page talked about. And that is to overcome that fear of trying new things. So the basic idea here is to move from a mentality, a way of thinking about the different parts of life that compels you to sacrifice one part for others, and instead to be thinking creatively about how to bring the different pieces together into greater harmony for the benefit of all of them. Because most people that I encounter tend not to do that. So I'll be asking you a couple of questions throughout this morning, but also in the book to help you to do that and to produce change that is indeed intended to produce greater harmony and improved performance in all the different parts of life. That's the goal, make things better, but not just in one part, in all of them, by bringing them together more coherently. This is the essential idea here to recognize and to build on the notion that we have been studying and others have been researching and finding indeed, that you get better business results and better career results when you account for the whole person. So I'm going to move past that and just describe to you how this process works, and then we'll get into it. I'll ask you to. To undertake a piece of it with me. It starts, as most of these kinds of initiatives do, with just thinking about, well, why would I do this? What would I hope to gain from thinking about leadership from the point of view of the whole person and improving performance in them? What would my personal interest be in that? So that's where we begin the process. And then we get into the first of the three main chunks, as I said, Be real. So what does it mean to be real? Authenticity. You've probably heard this idea if you've been reading anything about leadership the last few years. What does it mean? To clarify what's most important for you, we're about to do an exercise, one of the four or five exercises that I describe and illustrate in the book that helps you to do just that, to identify what is it that you really care about. So one of the things we do is to ask people to write a statement in a page that describes it's 2020, what impact are you having on the world? And then to present that to some other people and to get feedback on it and to perhaps refine it and to ask questions about, well, this is something that really does inspire you. Does it bring the passion from you to really devote extraordinary effort. So that's one way of looking at what really matters, what it means to be real. Another is to tell the story of the three or four critical incidents that have shaped your values. What are the incidents in your life, starting from when it began, that have been most important to you in shaping what matters most to you? And everybody of course has those. And how have those events shaped your core values? And again, writing a short piece about that, articulating it, sharing it with a couple of other people, getting their reaction, and then of course, learning about your own by hearing other people's stories. Another exercise is to simply write about, well, what are the things that I believe in and that I hold as most important in the way that I want to live my life. So again, it's really drilling into what, what do I care most about in all the different parts of my life? That's the be real part. And again, this is usually done and best done with other people in peer to peer coaching networks where you are both holding other people accountable, pressing them to go further, giving them support, giving them ideas, and they're doing the same for you. It's a very powerful means of learning this sort of stuff and I'm going to encourage you to do that if you have an interest in taking the book and using it in that way. And perhaps we can start that in this next hour. So that's the first piece and there's one other element to that which is one of the things that we'll illustrate, and you have a handout for that looks at the different domains and how important they are to you and how well aligned they are presently. Second part is be whole. So what does that mean? How do the different pieces fit together into an Interdependent system. So here's what you would do. You identify the most important people in your life. So now think about this. Who are the most important people to you in your work life? Top five individuals or groups? Just doing that is an interesting exercise for many people. And who are the most important people in your home or family environment? However you define that interesting question causes some people some consternation. Well, gee, who really are the most important people? And then in the community or society domain, your neighbors, your friends, members of religious groups, political groups, social action groups, environment, who are the most important stakeholders there? The groups or interests that have a stake in your future. And then finally in the self domain, what is it, you know, the aspects of yourself that are important to focus on. Again, emotional health, physical health, spiritual growth and development, and leisure. So you identify those key stakeholders and then you write very briefly a couple of bullet points. What do those key stakeholders hold as performance expectations of me? What do they really need from me and what do I really need from them? So you actually write a couple of sentences on what you believe other people expect of you and what you expect of them, and you start to look at, well, where is there conflict among these expectations and where is there compatibility and where is there potential for greater compatibility? And how would I bring those pieces together in a more intelligent way? Well, then you prepare for and have conversations with those people, so called stakeholder dialogues. So imagine, and this is the high anxiety part of the program because you're thinking, well, gee, I actually have to talk to these people about this stuff and the answer is yes. And furthermore, if you're like most people, you are bound to be grateful for, have taken the opportunity to do that. Why? Couple of reasons. First, when you identify somebody as important to you and say you're one of the most important people in my life and I've been thinking about what's important to me and where I want to be going as a, you know, as a person, as a. However you want to describe that to them in language that makes sense to them. And I want to talk about how to strengthen and build our shared future. Again, using whatever language you want to use. I've done this with construction workers in Philadelphia and CEOs in investment banks in New York City. Everybody uses different language, but it's the same basic idea. You're an important person to me and I want to talk to you about our shared future. If somebody came to you and said that to you, how would you feel? Humbled. Humbled. Special? Exactly. You would feel A sense of honor. Wow, that's cool. And almost everyone you say that to will be happy to talk to you now. So that's one nice thing that happens here. And you also strengthen important connections. But the real value in this, beyond honoring the people you care most about and who care most about you, is that you're going to discover that what you thought they expected of you is actually different than what you thought. Sorry. What you thought they expected of you is different than what they really expect of you. And it's different in a good direction in the sense that what they expect of you is less than what you think they expect of you. So I'll say that again because most people are skeptical about that and don't believe it. You might be thinking, well, no, you don't really understand my situation, Stu. And it's really not like that. People actually expect a lot more of me than you think. But I'm telling you, I have now coached hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people through this, and I hear this every day. You know what? It turns out I was right about most of the stuff that they expected me, but it turns out that they actually expect a little bit different and a little bit less. So what does that imply? What does that imply if the most important people around you expect a little bit less than what you thought they expected? Where does that lead you?

Placing too much expectations on ourselves.

Your expectations for yourselves are likely to be greater than they need to be. And therefore, what can you do? What's the opportunity there? You can relax. Well, you can perhaps reallocate your time and attention. And that's the fun part, experimentation. Be innovative, acting with creativity. So then what you do, and I'll give you some ideas about this, time permitting, and what are described in the Harvard Business Review article that I published in last month's issue focuses in on the nine different kinds of experiments that we write about in the book and illustrate. But essentially what you do is you take two or three ideas for experiments, things you can do that will actually improve performance in all the different domains. Good for you, good for them. And that's the key, sustainability. And you try those out for a month or so, and if it doesn't work well, then you adjust. Like any good experiment, you learn and adjust along the way. But here you're kind of a scientist of your life, as Daiko was starting to talk about in that video. And then you, like any good scientist, you get data. Well, what was the impact of this experiment on work, on home, on community, and on self and what did I learn from that experiment and what does that tell me about what I need to do going forward to continue to strengthen my performance as a leader in the different parts of. And that's the basic process. So here's some results of an assessment that you're about to do. So I'm going to ask you in about a minute to think about the different domains work, home, community and self, just as you would define them. And I'm going to ask you on that sheet of paper, everybody have that sheet of paper in front of them? This one, do you have this? Yes. Okay, good. Do you have something to write with? No, sorry. Okay, good. So what you do is assign a value from 0 to 100 such that the total is 100 for this column. How important is work to you right now? How important is home to you right now? How important is community or self? And how important is that self domain? 0 to 100 such that the total is 100. And then you would do the same for the attention of the time and attention in a typical week. How much do you devote to each domain? 0 to 100 such that the total is 100. And then you're going to rate on that sheet your satisfaction from 1 to 10. And how are things going and how well are you performing according to the perspective of the people around you? So what you have here are the results of a recent study that I did that shows the delta pre and post over about a five month period. So looking at the column of numbers in the first column, what do you see there? What do you observe? Just looking under the importance category, what's your inference or your conclusion? Sorry, they stay about the same. They stay the same. Your values don't change and you'd expect that you wouldn't. This is not like you're undergoing some sort of religious conversion or psychoanalysis or anything. Your basic personality is not going to change. What you care about is not going to change much. Look at the second column. What do you see there? Change in what direction? What are the patterns there? What does that mean? You switch closer to what's important on average. And what other observation do you see there? What does that mean to switch to what's more important for most people? Less work. Less work. So how do you think the senior team of an investment bank in Wall street reacted when I was going through this? And they said, wait a minute, less work, same pay rate. Something wrong with that equation. Who brought this guy in here in much fouler language is what I heard. Yeah, people shift a bit, not radically, but substantially. Their time and attention to be more closely aligned with the things that matter. And this is just a percentage increase in the third column, satisfaction. What you see there is that people feel more satisfied in all domains, but particularly in the self domain. And that's because they feel a greater sense of control and they're doing more stuff that they care about and so they feel better. Finally, performance also increases, although not to the same degree. Why is this? Well, I believe it's because people are bringing more energy and focus to the things that they do and they're eliminating the stuff that they shouldn't be doing that they were doing. And so they're working smarter. They're working smarter and more effectively. I'm not going to talk to you about the changes in skill levels. I've already talked to you a little bit about what it means to be real, acting with authenticity. Let's do this exercise now. So this is another window in one of the exercises where you identify what matters to you and where you're devoting your time and attention. So I'd like you to now complete this. Take a minute or so to figure out your entire life. Usually it takes a little longer than a minute, but take a minute just to complete this by recording a number from 0 to 100. So if work is everything in your life, you'd put a 100 there and 000 there. If spiritual growth, transcendence is everything in your life, you'd put 100 there and 000 here. If it was 25, 25, 25, 25, you equally. You'd do that accordingly. And then here, in a typical week, where would you focus your time and attention? And then this is for your own private use. You control your information, right? So you don't have to reveal anything to anyone that you don't want to. It's kind of the Facebook model. Rate how well things are going in each domain, work, home, community itself. And then overall, and don't spend too long thinking about this. You can always go back and think more. And finally, if I were to ask the most important people in the different parts of your life, how is she doing? What would they say? And again, you can keep this private. In terms of scale of 1 to 10, from poor to excellent, what would their rating be? So take another 30 seconds or so to just complete those numbers. All right, Good. Now, what I would like you to do is to please find someone who you don't know. And if they're sitting next to you, that's great. But otherwise find somebody you don't know in the room. I presume you can do that and sit down with them and take the next seven or eight minutes to do a quick. What does this tell me? Basically, what you want to do is a coach here. And I'm going to assume that you can all do this basic coaching. It's really not that hard. You mainly have to just ask a couple of questions and. And I'm giving you those questions. So just ask them and listen. Whoops. What are the consequences of the choices you're currently making? And if you were to bring the pieces together, what would be difficult about that? And then most importantly, here's some ideas that I'm thinking of or here's one idea of something I might try. So what I'd like you to get out of this next seven or eight minute conversation, let's call it, would be an idea for something you might try to bring the pieces together in a way that you haven't currently. All right, so find a partner anywhere in the room and please begin this conversation. All right, so what came out of this conversation for you? What came out of this? What's your take away from this last five minutes or so? What did you learn? Say it again. Working too hard. Working too hard? Really too hard or too much? Too much, Too long? Too much, too long. All right. What other ideas or observations do you have, sir?

Of my life are similar to what a lot of other people have.

So I may be putting a lot more time and work and career, but that's not enough time at home. And I see that other people might also have the same problem. That's a pretty common observation. Now, not everybody has the same array of values here, and that's certainly something that we expect. And there is no prescription for what your values ought to be. Certainly I'm not going to offer that. And so, you know, this is all about just getting clearer as to what matters most to you and then taking a look at where you devote your precious, your most precious asset and that's your attention. What else did you discover from this analysis and conversation? Yes, I'm having a hard time separating attention and time. Right. There's a lot of times I'm at home and even though I eating dinner with my family, my brain is on work still. Right. And so I'm super thankful. Okay. This is a really, really important point. I spend a lot of time on this. In the book, there's a big difference between physical and psychological presence. So some of you are physically present, right? Now, but psychologically absent. You're elsewhere. Your mind is elsewhere. And one of the things that we found in earlier research in the 90s in a book that I published in 2000 called Work and Family Allies or Enemies, is that when we looked at the impact of a parent's work on their child's emotional and physical health, what we found is that it wasn't the amount of hours that a parent spent with a child that determined those outcomes, but rather whether they were focused on other things when they were with their child. In other words, when work interfered psychologically, that's when you had problems. So. Yes, Well, I don't know. What most people want more of is the capacity to attend to the things and people that matter most when they're needed. So how you focus your time and attention, in other words, making choices about the time and attention you have to devote to the things that matter most when needed. That's part of the. That's part of what many people do in their experiments, which I want to tell you a little bit about and hopefully whet your appetite to go further into this, because the book, again, takes you through a process of how to do this and to experiment with the goal of producing better performance, better results in each domain by leading more effectively the whole. So let me do that. Let me tell you a little bit more about those experiments so that I can wrap up and move in time for us to finish by noon. So another exercise you might do. And we're actually in quality assurance testing now for a widget that does this, which hopefully you'll see before too long at our website. Imagine you take those percentages of importance and you would size the circles according to their importance to you. So the circle size would expand or contract depending on how important it was. And then you would click and drag the circles to show their degree of overlap in terms of the goals and interests or values you pursue in each one of them. So if what you pursue as an employee here in this great company is totally aligned with what your family's interests are, then those circles would be concentric. And if they were completely different and antagonistic, there'd be no overlap among the circles. So imagine doing that with all four circles, saving that image as the image of your four circles, and then writing about what it says, what ideas you might have to bring the pieces together into greater harmony, and then asking for help about it from people in your coaching network. That's the widget. So if you have ideas about that and you want to help me discover more about how to use it. I'd love to hear from you, but that's another way to. To think about and to dive into what's most important so that it looks something like that is the goal. And that's indeed the logo. And it's on the side of the book and elsewhere throughout it. This is nirvana. Nobody has this. This is an ideal image. This is the perfect mandala. Right? It's just an ideal, a way to think about it. So the B hole part, we talked about that, I want to skip past that. And we talked about the dialogues just kind of walking you through the process. And then the be innovative part. And this is where I want to spend our last few minutes. Acting with creativity by continually experimenting with the intent of producing the four way wins. And I'm here to say that the number of four way wins you can actually produce is greater than what you think. And it becomes more apparent to you when you go through this process of discovering, well, what really matters? Where am I devoting time and attention? What changes might I try that would produce benefit to the people around me, not just for me. So that any experiment you try has got to be a win for them as much as for you. And that's really the leadership leap. You've got to look at the world from the point of view of those people around you. What do they really need from you and then make intelligent changes. Experiments, smart experiments designed to produce value for all four domains. So here are the nine different kinds of experiments which I will just give you brief introduction and illustration of and hopefully again pique your interest and think about experiments you might try. And these nine came from my research team and I, looking through about 600 different experiments and creating a set of categories that seem to help us differentiate and explain the different types that exist. Tracking and reflecting. So here, keeping record of activities, thoughts, feelings, and in some cases distributing it to friends and family to assess progress on goals and increase your awareness. So can you think of an example of a tracking and reflecting kind of experiment? Something that you might try. Journal writing, blogging. Exactly. So how would that help you? How would that help improve your performance here as a Googler? Would your co workers be able to see that? Maybe. So that again, it's got to be demonstrable to the stakeholders around you. So I'm just asking you to now think about a change in this part of your life. How is that affecting the other parts? That's the whole idea here. Planning and organizing. Now this is going to seem very simple and straightforward. Taking Some new actions designed to better use time and prepare and plan for the future by, for example, using some new technology tool like Google Calendar for organizing or creating to do lists that involve all life domains and perhaps sharing that with others. So I gave you one example, and this is actually a common kind of experiment. People using Google Calendar and sharing it with their families and friends and everybody else. So that's one kind of experiment. But another might be, well, meeting on Sunday evenings with the whole family to review what's happening in all the different parts of our lives this week. So that would be another kind of experiment again, something you might try over the course of just a month. That's low risk. A small win is what the intention is. We're not talking about climbing the mountain in one leap. It's taking small steps towards a goal that you and others care about rejuvenating and restoring, which you seem to do so much of in this amazing campus. I was just so blown away by how the environment here is really geared to helping you to do this while you're in this campus. Still, this might be something that you might want to focus on. Rejuvenating and restoring, attending to mind, body, spirit, so that the tasks of living and working are undertaken with renewed power, focus, and commitment. So can you think of an example of this that might apply to you? Many people undertake a program of exercise or meditation or, you know, they do things of that sort that help them to get better in all domains in demonstrable ways. All right, let's look at a couple more. Appreciating and caring. Having fun with people by doing things that are typically outside of work with co workers, for example, caring for others. Appreciating relationships is a way of bonding at a basic human level to respect the whole person, increasing trust. Can you think of an example of something like that that might happen here? Or that you might try an appreciating and caring kind of experiment. You have one that made you laugh. Well, if I find a good wine. All right, so you have a passion for wine and you find a good wine and sharing it with other people. That's the. That's an interesting idea. Another common one would be to do a volunteer effort together or maybe just play games together with people from different parts of your life. Another simple idea, and these seem really small. The amazing thing is that when you take small steps in a direction that you choose as a leader, that brings together the different pieces in a way that is mutually enriching, it has a big impact on how you think about yourself in terms of your capacity to persist, produce sustainable change. And the big takeaway? If we were to hear more from the Daikas and rich and all the other people and I talk to people and we're collecting stories from them over time, years later. The big takeaway is that people learn how to be better experimenters, smarter innovators. They overcome that fear that Larry talked about by getting better at making changes in a way that's sustainable. Focusing and concentrating. This is a really popular one. Trying to be physically and or psychologically present. This is back to your question earlier when needed to pay attention to the stakeholders who matter most. Sometimes this means saying no. It also includes attempts to better respect important people that you encounter. All right, can you think of it? A focusing and concentrating experiment. What would that look like? How many of you are. Sorry, turning your cell phone off. Exactly. I was just going to ask how many of you suffer from crackberry addiction? Some of you might. Okay, so one experiment would be shut it off between the hours of six to nine, one day a week. All right? Small wins, doable, within your control. You don't have to ask for permission. You just do it and see what happens. For some people, that's really tough. But another example, this was a woman named Natalie, who's a physician. She trains residents in oncology. And when she did these stakeholder dialogues, her residents said to her, you know, Natalie, when we're talking to you, you don't make eye contact. And so it's like you don't care about us and you're not really listening. You're not paying attention. So one of her experiments was to actually look into the windows of the soul, right? To look into the people's eyes who were talking to her. That was her experiment. She didn't do too well with it, as it turns out. You'd think that would be pretty easy, right? It was really hard for her. So what's easy for you might be very hard for him and vice versa. That's another thing about these experiments. They're customized to you, your situation. And don't be judging other people for the experiments that they might try based on what's hard for them. Because it might be really hard for them, but easy for you. Revealing and engaging, sharing more of yourself with others, listening so that they can better support your values and steps you want to take towards realizing your leadership, vision, stronger connections. Can you think of an example of that? Revealing and engaging an experiment you might try in doing that? I have one. What you just did here, show it to some other people and have a conversation about it. That's just one off the top of my head. But you can imagine a lot of other ways in which you might do that. Time shifting and replacing. So that's basically shifting the where and when of doing things. So maybe some of you have ideas about that. This is quite common. But sleeping late, sleeping late once a week, that's. Yeah. So that's another quite common one is just changing hours of work and experimenting with how that improves performance. Delegating and developing reallocating tasks in ways that increase trust, free up time and develop skills in yourself and in others. So this is not delegating and dumping on other people, but it's delegating to enrich someone else. Can you think of an example where you might try that? Got one. Can't think of one. Might this relate to you? Now these are just examples, right? I'm just trying to stimulate your thinking about what you might try. My guess is that if I were to do a study of your calendar and your daily schedule, I could probably find 5% that you could delegate that would be good for somebody else to do. And it may not be at work, it might be somebody at home or in some other relationship finally exploring and venturing. And this would mean taking a step towards starting something new, a new hobby, something like that. But in all cases, what you're trying to do here is to produce a four way win, right? So you'd write a short game plan. Here's what I'm going to try, here's what help I need. Obstacles in the way and again a stretch for me. Not necessarily for you, but for me. And then here's a simple scorecard for how you would track it. What's your goal, how would you measure it and what steps would you actually take? This is all again illustrated there. And I hope that you do take up some experiments, give you some advice on coaching at this slide deck we'll post and make available to you in five full. But it's all described in there. This is the goal. This is the goal and I hope that you take it up and that you stay in touch with me if you want. I'm available and interested in hearing about your experiments and much appreciate your time and attention this morning. Thanks a lot Evan. Great. Thank you all. Thanks Steve.