Viral Marketing

Foreign. Hi, it's Guy Kawasaki and let me get a little better set up. You would think I'd have all this perfected by now in my life, but it is not true. So, huh. This is so meta. So yeah, this is Guy Kawasaki. I am in Santa Cruz, California and I hope things are working all right here because I'm trying something new. So I am on Streamyard talking to LinkedIn, Facebook and Periscope and I also on my speakerphone I have Clubhouse going. So theoretically, I have Clubhouse, Facebook, Periscope and LinkedIn, very theoretically. So we're going to see how this works. Now the topic today is influence and persuasion. And specifically I'm talking about the work of a professor at Wharton. And I went on this binge of trying to figure out how to help government officials and really anybody in the medical field to convince people to get vaccinated. So what I did is I interviewed nine social psychologists and behavioral scientists about how to encourage people to get vaccinated. And that led me to come across a guy named Jonah Berger. And Jonah Berger is a professor at Wharton in marketing and he is one of the leading people in social psychology and behavior and marketing. And so I interviewed him shortly for this special episode about vaccination and I liked what he did and I read his book. So, so then I gave him an entire session by himself, which is what released today. So this morning there was Jonah Berger from Wharton about social psychology and the science of influence and persuasion. And that's what I am trying to bring up to speed. So some thoughts. So first of all, kind of break the ice. You know, just think about this. So, you know, when's the last time you really had to change somebody's mind? You know, if, if, if you're Tony Fauci, I mean you have to convince 200 million people to change their minds. So how do you do that? So wrap your mind around that. I think that's a good ice breaking question, thinking about the last time you had to change someone's mind. And so some key concepts that I learned from Jonah, number one is this concept of the status quo bias. And the way the status quo bias works is that the status quo inertia has an enormous advantage. And the example that Jonah used is that he had an iPhone. It was running out of memory. He knew he had to get a better iPhone, but it took him months and months to buy the new iPhone. And then even after that, it took him months and months to actually start using the new iPhone. And it's because that usually good Enough is good enough. And so there's this bias towards the status quo that, you know, people don't upgrade to the next version of software, people don't get the next phone, even though they're out of memory or the camera's crappy. And so he talks about how do you overcome the status quo bias. Part of that is he uses a great metaphor of pebbles versus boulders. And so, you know, some things are pebbles for people, getting people to change a little behavior. Putting down the toilet seat, that actually, that might be a boulder for people, but you know, it's that kind of thing. So it's one thing to, to change someone's mind about putting down the toilet seat. It's another to change their mind about completely redoing their computer system or something like that. So he talks about how do you, you have to get it in your mind. You know, sometimes you're asking people to move a pebble, sometimes you're asking people to move a boulder. And the ask is not exactly the same. It' very different. And you have to sort of segment the kind of ass that you're doing. So it's an important concept. The next key concept that he explained was really a thing about not bludgeoning people and not demanding and not trying to use power, but instead to understand people. And so the example that he uses is FBI hostage negotiator. And he says, you know, when you first become a hostage negotiator, you often think that you can work with just the sheer power and you know, like, if you don't come out and give up the hostages, we're going to come in there and, you know, just blast you and kill you and. Because obviously the FBI probably has much more firepower than any single given a hostage taker. But he says that the effective hostage negotiators, they focus on understanding what the other person's issues are, what the other person's needs are. And by fostering that understanding, then they can build communications which ultimately leads to a much safer and saner for everybody, a resolution of hostage. So it's, it's not about using power and demanding and forcing people to do something to change their mind. It's understanding where they're coming from to in fact catalyze self persuasion that you convince yourself, yeah, yeah, this is what I should do. When I interviewed people about the vaccination, the psychology of vaccination, you know, one of the key concepts that I learned was that instead of demanding people or forcing people, you ask them questions such as, do you think your Kids should be vaccinated? Most people would say yes. Do you think that your kids, teachers should be vaccinated? Most people would say yes. Do you think that your parents should be vaccinated? Most people would say yes. Do you think that the caretakers in the nursing home who are treating your parents should be vaccinated? Again, most people would say yes. And so then you ask the question, well, if all those people should be vaccinated, shouldn't you be vaccinated? And that kind of line of reasoning and methodology is much more effective in influencing and persuading people than telling them that, you know, yesterday 4,000 people died in the United States from COVID So you know, God damn it, get vaccinated. That's the kind of approach. And the last concept I want to talk from Jonah, Jonathan, last concept of Jonah's is this concept of, you know, just how big is the window. So you know, there are some people who, let's say if you look at the anti vax sentiment, you have to break that down into different groups. And so not everybody is the, you know, 1%. I'm not going to ever get vaccinated. I will, you know, die before I get vaccinated. And so that's one part of it. But there are many people who are sort of indifferent or questioning or not sure what to do. So you know, those people, they, let's say, to use a American football analogy, there are people who are on the opponent's 10 yard line and so you have to get them 90 yards to the other end zone. Okay, that's a very hard thing to do. But there may be people on the 50 yard line and they're just a little hesitant because they think that the vaccine was rushed to market or they're a little concerned about, you know, they heard a story about somebody getting sick to the vaccination. So those people are, you know, sort of negative, questioning, skeptical as opposed to die hard opposition. So he has this concept about the, just the, the, the distance you can move somebody. So you know, basically work with the people on the 50 yard line, not with the people on the other 10 yard line. Now the question becomes, well, there is 1% of the people who are on the other 10 yard line and if they're only 1% of the people, you can achieve herd immunity without getting all of them to get vaccinated. The fallacy of that reasoning I learned from, from Gretchen Chapman, another person in the interview series is that yes, you know, theoretically you could get 99% of the people vaccinated and you'd achieve herd immunity, not mentality immunity. The problem with that theory is that 1% tends to geographically concentrate. So in general it may be 1% of Americans, but in some areas that 1% is really most of the people. So if Covid gets to that one area where everybody is anti vax is going to really wipe out that population. So Even though it's 1% in the big picture, you still need to worry about the 1% because it's geographically concentrated. So those are the concepts that I learned from Jonah. It's a very fast paced interview. He talks a lot about these very practical and tactical things, not just for vaccination, but really for anybody who's introducing a new product or a new service. Many of these principles apply. And if you're a fan of Bob Cialdini, a fan of Angela Duckworth, you will love this week's podcast came out this morning at 6:30 Pacific and it's Jonah Berger from Wharton. And now I'll take questions. So I'll repeat the questions because you know, some people are just listening on Clubhouse. Fire away, fire away. The questions. I'm sorry, Clubhouse. Clubhouse. People who are on Clubhouse. This is a one to many Clubhouse. This is not typical where people are invited up and speaking because I'm live on three other platforms and Clubhouse. And on the other platforms the questions are coming in via text message so I can read them but I can't. I don't have enough mental faculty to both breathe bringing people up on Clubhouse and letting them talk and trying to do this live on other platforms. Okay, sorry. So. We got any questions here? Let's see. Oh, somebody was in my master class today. That's cool. Well, this is a first time event here. We don't have questions. Jeff. Maybe it's broken. Well, okay, so. So somebody just commented about the great lighting and audio and video. So I know we always do this. So I'm going to explain that and this. Actually I have an answer for my clubhouse friends too. So what we have going on here is I am in a closet. The black surface you see behind me is acoustic tiles. I'm using a Shure XLR microphone and the camera is a Sony A7C with a, I think it's a 55 millimeter 1.8 lens. So I'm not using the built in camera in an imac, nor am I using a logitech. Now for you people on Clubhouse, what's going on is the that I'm obviously on iOS because clubhouse is only on iOS and I have connected to the, my iPhone, a Poly Poly Sync. So if you're old enough and you remember, remember those days when we used to sit in conference rooms and there would be this Polycom thing in the middle of the conference room there was a speakerphone and it had a better mic and speaker so that people all around the conference table could talk and hear. So that company was called Polycom. Polycom and Plantronics are now the same company called Poly P O L Y. And Poly has created this portable Polycom like device that is Bluetooth and it is a great microphone and it is a great speaker. So those of you on Clubhouse, you're listening to me come through you via a Poly Sync connected to my iPhone. And I promise you that a Poly Sync connected to an iPhone is better than speaking through the AirPods microphone. I have AirPods on, but I am speaking through a Poly. It's so complicated. A poly sync 20. So if you like the sound that's coming through on Clubhouse, it's because of the poly sync 20. Okay, so what products do you love so much that you're happy to show their logo? Well, the products that I'm happy to show their logo are, well, let's see. Mercedes. So I have a Mercedes mattress, full size van. This mattress full size van has been upgraded by Peace Vans in Seattle. So they, they listen to this. There's some ludicrousness in this process. So, so the Metris van is built by Mercedes in Spain, completely finished. Okay. After it's finished, they take it apart and it's sent to South Carolina where it's reassembled. And the reason why they do that is because now it gets around some tax thing because it was assembled in America. Okay. So now it's in South Carolina. And then a company associated with Peace Vans adds the, the, the camping stuff like a pop top roof and a foldable second row bench seat that comes down into a bed. So with this mattress van, there's two people who can sleep on the bottom and two people who can sleep on the top. And the both a driver and passenger seat, both reverse so you can face the back and there's a table. So anyway, Metros Peace Van is one logo, another logo. I love to surf and I use a Pearson arrow surfboard. So I am always showing a Pearson arrow surfboard because I love that. And Obviously I'm an iOS guy and a Mac guy. So those are the three logos basically. So what other question, what's Clubhouse? Catherine Hall Clubhouse is the latest, greatest social media platform. It is audio only. So you get the Clubhouse app and you sign on and you create a membership, and then you can go into rooms and listen to people talk. And now just from that description, you're probably wondering, as I did, why the hell would you do that? But right now, I'm on Clubhouse, and there is a group of people listening to me talk about influencer persuasion as you watch me on Facebook or Periscope or LinkedIn. So they're getting the same audio only. You're getting audio and video. And what you will notice about Clubhouse is there are themes, there are rooms with themes. And it's really. It's like, this is going to sound oxymoronic, but if you ever listen to a radio talk show, but everybody is smart, that's kind of what Clubhouse is like. So last night I was in Clubhouse and I was in a room where they were talking about food and. And. And not just, you know, like burgers and fries. These people were talking about, oh, yeah, you know, I'm from Dubai and my grandma used to use cumin and make this kind of special, you know, tandoori, whatever. It's like the most amazing discussion about food, all with foodies. So there's like, there's a foodie clubhouse, and there's a. There's basically every topic is there. And so it's. It's kind of hard to explain why it's so addictive, but if you. It. It really. I am so impressed with the level of sincerity and engagement and intelligence of people on Clubhouse. Of course, that probably will be diluted soon, but. Yeah. So, you know, right now, theoretically, people are listening to me talk about influence and persuasion on Clubhouse, and they're saying, well, I'm learning a lot from Guy about influence and persuas. So, you know, I'm trying to add to the quality of influence and persuasion. So that's Clubhouse. Somebody asked, when was the last time you changed someone's mind, Guy? Let's think about that. So I got my son to clean the kitchen a few days ago. That was an act of God. That was more like a boulder than a pebble. So, you know, I have to tell you a funny story. So, like, during the day, I'm interviewing people like Jonah Berger, right? Professor. I interview Angela Duckworth, professor at UPenn. Katie Milkman, another professor. Bob Cialdini, the godfather of influence. Sam Weinberg, Stanford histor history professor. All these people are experts in social psychology. Phil Zimbardo, social psychology. David Aker, father of branding. So during the day, I'm interviewing them, I'm editing their. Their audio. And then at night, when I'm a father, based on all this knowledge of pebbles and influence and persuasion and communication and, you know, self persuasion and getting every. So when my son doesn't do what I want him to do, I freaking cut off his Internet access. So that's the juxtaposition of what I learned during the day and what I do in my real life. I just cut off his Internet access until he mops the kitchen. So a Day in the Life of Guy, what is your most favorite interview from remarkable people? Probably my most favorite interview from remarkable people. That's like asking, which of your kids do you love the most? It may be Bob Cialdini. I just happen to love the work of Bob Cialdini. I'll give you some Bob Cialdini isms. So some Bob Cialdini isms include the concept of reciprocation. That is what holds society together is the desire to repay debts. And without that feeling of reciprocation, society would fall apart. So that's number one. A very tactical tip from Bob Cialdini about influence and persuasion is that when you do something for someone and they thank you, the ideal response to the thank you is not simply, you're welcome. The ideal response is, I know you would do the same for me. And by saying that, you're saying, I think you're a good person, you have class, you believe in reciprocation. I know you will do the same for me. You are also saying to the other person, I know you will do the same for me. You're putting them on notice. Another Cialdinism is that when someone owes you something, you should tell them how you can pay. You can be paid back. So many people think, oh, somebody owes me something, tell them to just forget about it, don't worry about it. But that's not optimal because you can tell someone to forget about it, not pay you back, but that doesn't really clear the debt. So they may want to ask you to do more, but they're afraid to do that because they already owe you, especially if you told them. So what you should do is, yeah, you know, this is how you can pay me back. And by doing that, enabling them to pay you back, you clear off the decks. And then you can have a more enchanting relationship because they can ask you to do more. And before, when they wouldn't ask you to do more unless you're clairvoyant, you have no idea how you can help them More so now they clear the decks and you can have a closer and closer relationship. So yeah, I highly recommend the book influenced by Bob Cialdini. So let's see, how can influence with negative mind and make them feel positive? I think that based on my interviews with 10 of these people, I think that with a negative mindset all you can do is show positivity. You know, ask questions, try to understand where they're coming from. Certainly bludging them in isn't going to, you know, convince people. I, I also, I saw a very great hesitancy to rely on facts, which is kind of contrary to what I would think. But facts don't really work that well for influence and persuasion. It's more understanding and empathy, especially in this day and age because, you know, the question with facts immediately becomes whose facts? Because everybody seems to cite facts that prove their point, which in a sense is like the Bible, right? I mean you can find a lot of passages that conflict with each other in the Bible. So I think it's empathy and understanding and ultimately the goal is self persuasion. Or you can do like I do is shut off your kid's Internet until he does his chores. So next question. You're still looking the great the same as five years back. What's your secret? Oh yeah, first of all, Robert is not a relative of mine. So my secret is a good camera. I, I have spent weeks trying to perfect this audio visual capture system. So that's one thing. And I don't know, maybe it's Japanese DNA. I don't exactly. Well, I don't smoke or drink. I don't really get a lot of great sleep. I must say that if you read, you know, you read these reports about what you should not do before bedtime, like you should not be on your iPad or iPhone, you should not be watching, you know, movies on your stuff. You know, it should not be getting exposed to blue light. You should not be sleeping near your phone. You should not wake up in the middle of night checking your phone. I do of that wrong? Absolutely. If you looked at me, I am absolutely 100 wrong in what I do. So maybe it's just DNA. It's not like I got any special filters going on in this camera. So what else? Okay, wait. Juan Pablo says, I love your manual focus. Okay, so you guys on Clubhouse, obviously focus doesn't matter to you, but so last week now you would think when you use a digital SLR for your, your conferences like this, you would turn it to autofocus so that as you move around, you know, the camera always remains in focus. The problem is, as you move around and the camera focuses, the audience sees the camera go out of focus slightly and then go back into focus. So you're always having this motion. So contrary to what you would think, I think the way you do proper video for zoom and web conferencing is you set it to manual focus. Okay? So I'm gonna move away from the camera and you're gonna see everything behind me is blurry. Now, if I had autofocus on, when I move my head away from the line of sight, the camera would have seen the back wall and put that in focus. But that didn't happen. And that's because I have manual focus. So the way I do it is I figure out that my face will be at about this plane, and then I go to the camera and I focus on something that would be where my head is, and I set manual focus. So I have also turned on focus peaking. Focus peaking means that when I am in focus, what is focused turns little hints of. You can use white or yellow or red. So I can see when I go here that this part of my face is in focus because of focus peaking. So I need to discipline myself to stay roughly in this plane. The depth of field of focus is about 6 inches. So I need to stay in this 6 inches, and I will always be in focus. Again. Sorry, people on Clubhouse, it's not helping you, but. Well, people on Clubhouse, I'm sure you have to do video conferencing. So the two tips for you on Clubhouse is get a digital slr, set it to manual focus, get a ring light, and you will look better than 95% of the people on web conferencing, including people like Chris Rock and Tony Fauci, when they do their zoom conferencing. So end of discussion there. So what. What masterclass do you teach or do Pablo? I did. I'm. I have to admit, I am very confused about masterclass. So, like, I see these ads for Masterclass with Annie Leibovitz, right? On photography. So truly a master class on photography. So in my mind, that was master class. And this morning I did one for a master class conference. And I. I still haven't figured out if. If that's the same company that does the Anna Leibovitz master class. So maybe somebody can respond to that. But I have not done the master class a la Annie Leibovitz and Neil Degrasse Tyson, because I don't know, I've never been asked Maybe I have not mastered anything to merit doing a master class, but I think I could. So no. So I have not done any. Okay, what other questions you have here? So Jeremiah is here now. Jeremiah is on Clubhouse with me, and he's the person who finally convinced me to join Clubhouse. I will be honest. Initially, I joined Clubhouse just so that I could squat my name. I guess squatting your own name is not squatting, but anyway. So Chris Warren wants to know, have you been vaccinated? I have not been vaccinated. I am scheduled for February 11. I am trying to find someplace I can do it faster. I'm 66 years old, but no underlying physical conditions. I have some mental issues, but no underlying physical conditions. So I am in category 1B and I will be vaccinated on February 11 and I cannot wait, man, if, if I got a text message that said, guy, we have an extra vaccine right now, I would end this conference and go, what was that? Okay, which common persuasion advice out there do you feel is outdated? Oh, shit, that is a really good question here, Man. Stump the master class wannabe. What influence technique is outdated? Do I have my Cho Genie book right now? That's at my house? I don't have an answer for you. I, I, I can't think of one in the Cialdini theory that is outdated. I nor the Katie Milkman, nor the Angela Duckworth. I can't think of a technique that's outdated. Maybe in one sense, social psychology is social psychology and it's timeless. So you stump me, bro. Let's see, other question. Do you think it's possible to influence the person who is so adamant about his beliefs about the world, a Trump supporter, for example, who believes Democrats stole the election? Do I think it's possible? Yes. Do I think it's easy? No. Using the pebbles versus Boulders. That is freaking Boulder. I, I think what I learned from interviewing these social psychologists and social media social scientists is that the most effective method for convincing someone like that is to use the technique called convert the converted. No, no, I said that wrong. Is that use converts to convert, which means that you take someone who was she sharing the same belief system and you enable that people to communicate how and why they change their mind. So let's not use the Trump example. Let's use the vaccination example. So what Phil Zimbardo told me is that one of the most convincing ways to convert an anti vaxxer is to have a former anti vaxxer say, listen, I was just like you. I did not believe in vaccination. I thought it was, you know, an infringement on my personal freedom. I thought it was dangerous. I thought it would create autism or, you know, whatever you thought. But I've changed my mind. I changed my mind because I saw that my parents got really sick or my parents could not see their grandchildren. And then, you know, my parents got vaccinated and nothing happened to them. And now they can visit their grandchildren, children, and, you know, my kids can go back to school now because of vaccination. So I used to be just like you. I was anti vax. And then I saw that I was wrong, and now I support vaccination. So that kind of person. In the technical world, I will tell you that one of the most convincing people to get people to switch from Ms. DOS to Windows was a former person who loved Ms. Dos. So the Ms. DOS lover says, yeah, I was just like you, man. I thought Macintosh was a freaking graphics toy for kids. But then I use the Macintosh and it's so much easier to set up and so much easier to use and so much easier to print. That, man. Now I believe in Macintosh. That kind of person who was just like the anti Macintosh person used to be, is the most convincing person. What else? What new marketing tool are you most excited about in 2021? I don't know if I've encountered any new marketing tools. I mean, the only new marketing tool I've encountered so far is Clubhouse. And I tell you that Clubhouse has enormous potential. It's going to be very interesting because, you know, Clubhouse is like Twitter was when it first began, I. E. Believe it or not, this is how long ago it was when Twitter first started. You know, everybody was pretty sincere on Twitter, and people were on Twitter who they said they were. There wasn't, you know, 50 million Russian bots. And so Clubhouse is like that. It's, you know, not going to remain like that. So the beauty of Clubhouse is you can really reach people in a sincere, authentic way, kind of easily, casually, very well. And so that has enormous potential. The first way I would use Clubhouse is to reach people who are already customers. So, you know, let's say that Canva has a Clubhouse club where they have a weekly or daily meeting. Anybody interested in Canva can come to Clubhouse and listen to Canva tips and tricks. It's. I think it's that kind of thing. I don't know. You know, the day when Burger King sponsors Kim Kardashian on Clubhouse, I guess it's coming, but it's not clear to me. That's going to be good for Clubhouse. And, you know, if the day ever comes where Clubhouse says, well, you know, we're listening to your conversation and we're going to pick off keywords and then send you relevant advertising. So if I'm on Clubhouse and I say, yeah, I just saw this most beautiful Mercedes, and so clubhouse, here's Mercedes, and now all of a sudden, you get Clubhouse Mercedes ads. I can't say I look forward to that day. If you ask me on Clubhouse, I would pay to be. I would rather pay five bucks a month to have ad free, private, you know, sort of clubhouse than to say, okay, go ahead, listen to my conversations, pick off the keywords, and start sending me, you know, Mercedes ads and erectile dysfunction drug ads or whatever. Yeah. So Clubhouse has enormous potential. On the other hand, Twitter is working on something like Clubhouse, and, well, we're gonna see what happens. You know, how many of you can remember the time that we were all excited about Ello? Well, you know, hey, I don't even know if it exists anymore. So. Okay, next question. How positive, how positively influencing someone differs from manipulating someone? That's a fine line, I must admit. You could make the sarcastic case that positively influencing someone is when you're doing it and manipulating someone is when it's being done to you. But that's a little negative. But I would say it's all about the intent. And, you know, this is a good case. There's a difference between evangelism and most sales. And the difference is evangelism has the other person's best interests at heart. So when I evangelize you to use Macintosh, it's because I think it'll make you more creative and productive. Now evangelize you to use Canva. I think it'll make you a better communicator because you can create graphics. Now, don't get me wrong, in both cases, it was good for me if you use Macintosh or Canva. But I did have your self interest at heart, too. And I think that's the difference between manipulation and influence that, you know, you, you. You could use the techniques of influence and persuasion to get people to do things that are bad for themselves. There is no question that that can happen. So let's see. What emerging sectors are you most excited about over the next five years? Robert should pay you a royalty every time you have to tell people you want him. Well, so emerging sectors. You know what? I hate that question because I don't know how to answer that question. I don't think anybody can predict what's going to happen in five years, much less five months. So I remember, I remember the time when I thought that MySpace would be the operating system of the Internet and Amazon would be a little corner store and Apple would be a Corner store, but MySpace was the OS. Well, I guess I was wrong. So I don't think anybody can predict. I think you can just react fast. And the second thing that he was alluding to with that question was that. And. And it happened to me on Clubhouse the other day. So you'll love this. So I go on Clubhouse and it was somebody else's room. Some, you know, millionaire marketing, real estate, how to be successful. I don't know, whatever it was. And so the guy brings me on stage and oh my God, the first person says, so guy, I am such a big fan. Your book just changed my life. I just love Rich Dad, Poor dad. Because, you know, Kiyosaki Kawasaki, Iceberg Sternberg, you know, oh my God. So yeah, so Robert Kiyosaki wrote Rich Dad, Poor dad and Guy Kawasaki is Poor Dad, Poor Dad. So lots of people make that mistake. I can't tell you how many times it's happened to me. So that's what that person was alluding to. That a lot of people confuse Kiyosaki and Kawasaki. I'm Kawasaki Poor Dad, Poor Dad. Okay, what else? As a boss, when is the time to stop influencing and start directing? Well, Pavel, I would say that in general, I would say that influencing is the purest form of directing. That. That I think you may have been creating a false dichotomy that you're either telling people what to do or you're influencing them what to do. I think a good boss is always influencing, which in effect has the same result as directing. Now having said that, I will tell you that Steve Jobs ruled by fear. So I don't think he was reusing Bob Cialdini techniques. He's just scaring the out of you. So I can tell you that that works. Or at least it worked on me. But you know, you have to be Steve Jobs level person to pull that off. Because it's like anybody can be an asshole. You have to be a brilliant asshole to pull that off. What else? If you have to rewrite the Art of the Start book, what would you write differently? So I wrote a book called the Art of the Start. I revised it about five years ago to be the Art of the Start two because the artist Start one came before crowdfunding, crowdsourcing and social media. You know, oops, can't exactly have a book about entrepreneurship without those topics. So now those topics were covered in Art of the Start too. So what has changed? I think lots of sales and marketing has changed because of the pandemic. And if I were to make Art of the Start three, I would incorporate the lessons that we learned because of of the pandemic. So I'll give you some of those lessons. The lessons include, first of all, you should try to do as much business as you can directly and not go through multiple tiered distribution. Because for example, if you make a product and you're selling it through retailers and retailers all of a sudden are closed, guess what? You're screwed. So, you know, take the business direct. In that sense, your relationship should be as direct with the customer as possible, not through resellers. I would also simplify my product lines because at a time in a pandemic where at a time in a pandemic and your president wants to wage trade wars sort of randomly, whether it's soybeans or iPhones. Not a good position to be dependent on Chinese manufacturing when God knows what Trump is going to do with China. So I would say you simplify your product lines and make your supply chain much simpler. And then the third thing I would do in a pandemic which affects entrepreneurship is I think you need to get the right mindset. And oops. The. The right mindset is not one of I am Usain Bolt, I am running a hundred meter dash. The right mindset in a pandemic. And really entrepreneurship, if you think about it, is I am running a marathon. It's a 26 mile thing, not 100 meter thing. And then you can make a further refinement on this athletic metaphor that it's really not simply a marathon, it's more like a decathlon plus a marathon in that you have to run a long time and you have to be good at a lot of different things. You can't just be a sprinter or a pole vaulter or a discus thrower or a, or a hurdler. You got to do a lot of things well. And so these are some of the changes that I would do in Art of the Start 3.0. Another change in the art of Start 3.0 is the concept that you are pitching in person. Pitching in person and pitching on zoom is a very different process. So I would incorporate that. So those are the changes I would make. Massimo, have you seen the social dilemma? Yes, I have seen the social dilemma. How worried are you about the use of personal data by social networks? Well, not only did I see the Social Dilemma, I also had Tim Kendall, who was one of the stars of the Social Dilemma. He is interviewed in the Remarkable People podcast. So if you want to get deeper into Tim Kendall's psyche and thoughts about social media, he worked for me. I, I was his first boss because he worked for me as an intern. And then he went to Facebook. He was at Facebook in charge of monetization of Facebook. He figured out how Facebook should monetize traffic. What an interesting job. And then he was president of Pinterest. And now he's. Let's just say he has a completely different of social media. So the question is social media and data and privacy. You know, I. On a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 people are. 10 is a person who's pulling their hair out. I am not a 10. I'm probably like a 6. And what I. My attitude towards it is, if you don't like Facebook and how it's looking at what you're doing and, you know, selling your data and sending ads or for that matter, Google or whatever is like, well, then just get off Facebook. If you don't like what Facebook does, get off of it. You don't have to use Facebook. And, you know, for that matter, if you, if Google creeps you out, then use Duck. Duck. Go. I mean, so, you know, when people say, well, we got to break up these monopolies, I don't know, I just, I don't view Facebook as a monopoly because if I wanted to, I could quit tomorrow. And honestly, the way I use Facebook is it's completely a push platform for me. So I only push stuff out. I never consume information on Facebook. So I don't go to Facebook and read news. I don't go to Twitter and read news. I only push stuff out. So I'm a curator who pushes. I am not a creator, nor am I a consumer of social media. So I guess, well, I think it's free choice. And yeah, I. Not to go into the politics cesspool, but I just love the. Just the irony of people saying that, oh, Facebook took away my account, so it's suppressing freedom of expression. So, you know, wrap your mind around this. So some politician is complaining that Facebook or Twitter banned them, and it's suppressing his ability to express himself. And he's doing this on Fox to tens of millions of people. So wrap your mind. You're saying that you have a monopoly on information distribution, and I'm complaining about it on Fox in front of tens of millions of People wrap your mind around that. I mean that is just so stupid. So anyway, yeah, leave Facebook if you want. Mark Williams, Are we nearing the point where we no longer own software and, or digital content or have we passed it? I guess it depends on how you mean the word owner. I, I don't know. You own physical things. I don't know if you can own ideas. You can intellectually, you know, you can protect your ideas. I, I really, I'm, I, I don't know how to answer that question. I, I guess I'm not too. You have to consider. So the person you are asking this question of, I'm not a paranoid person. And, and I'll give you an example example. So when I speak, even pre pandemic in person or now post pandemic virtually, so a lot of speakers have a contract that says, you know, you can only record with permission and you can only use the recording with express permission. So if I speak for you, I don't want you recording me without my permission. And if I give you permission, I'm going to tell you exactly how you can use that recording. And so many speakers do this. I, on the other hand, have just the opposite attitude, which is if I'm speaking for you, you can record it, you can do whatever the hell you want. It doesn't have to be just for your employees or attendees of the conference. You can cover the Internet with it. I don't care. I mean, I admit it would piss me off if you recorded me and sold, you know, copies and then you made money and I didn't. But that's an economic question, so I don't really care. Now the, the, the rationale of why a speaker would not want someone to record and redistribute a performance is the paranoid thinking that, oh, Guy gave this talk on innovation. It's recorded and I can watch it on YouTube. And so guy is thinking, well, if people have recorded it and people can watch it on YouTube, then you won't get hired to make a speech or people won't pay for your book or pay to hear you speak, which I think is just so stupid because in my humble opinion, if you can just watch me on YouTube or watch a recording and get as much impact as if I were in person, this is pre pandemic. Then freaking hallelujah. That's my fault. That means that in person I am not as good as I should be because I'm only as good as, you know, 12 dimensional YouTube. So I am not a paranoid person. I think that because my YouTube and my speeches are so widely distributed, it yields greater awareness of me, which has led to much more business. And so, you know, I guess the downside is that some people didn't hire me, but if a company didn't hire me to give a speech because they're going to go to YouTube and run that speech for free in a conference, that's probably not a company that I would want to speak at anyway. Because, you know, why would you just run an old YouTube video? So that's a very long winded answer to your question. So I hope this works for you guys on Clubhouse because this is an experiment for me. So those of you who just tuned in on Clubhouse, you're obviously hearing my audio, but I'm also doing this live video on Facebook, LinkedIn, Periscope and YouTube. So I am coming at you at five different directions right now. And honestly, first time I've done this, I'm not sure it's working. I think it's working. So I. You know how we can have a little data point on Clubhouse? See, this is Clubhouse going right here. So one data point on Clubhouse is if this is more or less working for you Clubhouse people, will you just flash your microphone? Because I think I would see that. Right? Isn't that how you applaud on Clubhouse? Of course, if it's not working for you on Clubhouse, then you would just hang up. Solution. Anyway, so how about another question or two 116 people on Clubhouse right now. That's cool. So about another question and then I'm so hungry I gotta eat. So what else. Do you use? WhatsApp? I do not use WhatsApp. So you know, I obviously use imessages. I use various email clients. I also use Privy, P, R I V Y and Privy. Think of Privy as Instagram meets iMessages with double opt in privacy. So it is a small company out of Dubai and I really like it because it's double opt in. So I have to invite someone to a group and they have to accept. No algorithm, no advertising. Check out Privy in the store. I'm on the board of directors at a company so there's a conflict of interest there. I have to disclose. So let's see, Last question. Do you do anything to fine tune your intuition for evaluating companies to invest? Yvonne? I don't fine tune anything at this point in my life. I just let it rip. So I. First of all, I don't do that much investing anymore because, well, I just, it's a, I just, it's a Different stage of life. I'm 66 years old. I'm not trying to do active investments. So that's one reason. Another reason is that the. The currency that I have today is my expertise, influence, and persuasion. So I don't need to buy stock. I can receive stock stock for other currencies such as influence, persuasion, and expertise, as opposed to money. Some people just have money. I have other things. So that's how I get into companies. So, yeah. So I think that we'll just end this right now. And I'm gonna post in the comment because everybody always asks for this. I will post in. Let's see. I hope this is. Wait, let me check that I'm sending you the right link because it would be embarrassing if I give you the wrong link. Okay? So in the comments right now is a link that describes more or less the setup that I'm using for. For this audio, video. And then for you guys on Clubhouse, just remember that I am using a poly sync to get the microphone and speaker of the quality that you're experiencing. Okay? So remember, remarkable people.com today is Jonah Berger, professor at Wharton about influence, persuasion, and marketing. Last week was Julia Cameron, the. The person who wrote the Artist's Way. Great, great session about creativity and innovation. And oh no or no. Last week was Rick Smolen. Rick Smolin is the photographer who created the Day in the Life series. So if you want to learn about photography and how to control the destiny of your own creativity, listen to that podcast. So please listen to remarkable people dot com. I have to tell you, as I look back on my career, I think that the finest work that I have ever done in my career is this podcast. No shit. It's the finest thing I've ever done. I also think it's the least appreciated of what I've done, but life's a bitch. So anyway, remarkable people. And remember, everybody, to just wash your hands, don't go into crowded areas, wear a mask, and get vaccinated. Because if you want this situation to turn around, it's kind of all we have to do. And we all have to do that. All right? So as we say in Hawaii, mahalo and aloha.