5 Types of People Pleasers - Which One Are You? | Ep. 105

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Holistic Inner Balance. This is Dr. Nicole and

Happy Healthy Hadlee.

We are so happy today to be getting together to talk about people pleasing. Hads, you and I don't know anything about this, right?

We're going to get to talk to you about which ones, which types of people pleasing we tend to, to do in our lives, but there are a bunch of different kinds. So I'm really excited for this topic.

So as we're jumping in, I'm going to go through a list of signs that you might be a people pleaser, and then we're going to get into, well, why do you care? And what types, like Had says, is what types of people pleasers are there? And we're going to get into the different causes of people pleasing and of course You'll never get a podcast where we don't give you tips on what you can do now to become more happy and fully integrated into yourself. So are you ready for the signs you might be a people pleaser?

Let's do it. I'm so excited.

Hadlee is really excited. We're both doing the shoulder wiggles.

This is like such a big, huge topic. Like, I talk about this all the time with my clients. And I'm glad we're finally doing an episode about this.

It feels really timely too, because it's a big conversation that my husband and I have been having where this man is like one of the most people-pleasing people that I've ever met. And Hadlee, you and I were just joking about how we're both 3s on the Enneagram and we're married to 9s who are peacemakers. Yeah. So we're like enabled by these people who want to please us in our relationships.

Totally.

It's great.

But yeah,

yeah.

And we're going to talk about like the light side and the shadow side of all of these different types of people pleasing too, because it's not necessarily that people pleasing is like this horrible thing. Because I think a lot of times people like, you know, in the personal development, the health kind of world, psychology world, like talk about people pleasing in a negative way. And so obviously we like to bring you nuance as usual. So we're going to be talking about the different pieces of it as well.

Yeah. And find out if it feels really healthy and lovely and balanced, or if it might be skirting into the territory where it's like, okay, we need to check this. And so that's what we're here for. I'm here for it.

Yes, I'm so here for it.

So this is not a completely conclusive list. And if you resonate with any of these, let us know. And if we missed something, let us know. We always love to grow and expand, so share your thoughts. And so I'm going to count on my fingers as I go through this. I'm sort of curious, like, what you'll score too, Hadlee. Yeah, let's see what we got. So number 1 is you struggle saying no. I feel like for me it depends on who I'm saying no to.

Like, that's fair, that's fair. Yeah, I'm like really good at saying no when it's someone that I don't really know that like that well. I'm like, yeah, But yeah, when it's someone that I like really care about, it's a little harder to say no.

I'm gonna give myself a half.

It's really hard to say no to my family.

Yeah. Yeah, same. Like the stakes feel higher. Yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes they literally tell me like, Hadley, you're, you can say no. Like it's fine. Like if my mom asks me to go for a walk or whatever, when I'm back in Michigan, like she's like, please feel free to say no. It's okay. Like,

yeah. So that gets into some of the motivations. So we'll get to that. So I'm going to give myself half a point for that actually. Okay. So the second is you feel preoccupied with what other people think, and it could be about a subject or something about you. It's— you're worrying, your attention's on other people. Number 3 is you feel guilty when you do tell people no. Number 4 is you fear turning down people will make them think that you're mean or that you're selfish. I like really resonate with that one because I was directly told that. Really? Growing up.

Yes. Yeah.

And struggling with confidence. So you may feel like you have low self-esteem or that you may have imposter syndrome, or you may feel like you are unworthy or inadequate. You struggle with those things. And then the next one is you want people to like you and feel that doing things for them will earn their approval. The next one is you often apologize or tell people you're sorry. Like, I'm sorry I can't do this, or I'm sorry I didn't do this, right?

Working on that.

Yep. Which I heard to change that to a thank you statement. So like, I'm sorry I can't. Thank you for the invitation. I'm going to be unable to.

Yeah, I like that.

It's like taking this agency back. That's, that's an aside. Another one is you don't have free time because you're always doing things for other people. The next one is you take blame even if something isn't your fault. And you agree to do things you don't like to do or don't want to do. And you neglect your own needs in order to do things for other people. And then the last one is you may pretend to agree with people or go through mental gymnastics to agree with people, even though really, truly you feel differently. Yeah,

I definitely do that.

Yeah, I got 6.

I, I like have— I've got, I got 5. Yeah, I, um, I mean, some of them are things that I used to do, but not anymore because I've worked on this stuff a lot in the past. Yeah. Why have you—

why have you worked on it? I'm curious about that. Like, was it causing you issues, or like, why did you spend your time thinking about that?

Um, yeah, I think that I have— I mean, personal development has always been like a thing for me. I think in recent years, like, it's become more of a popular topic in personal development, which is, you know, uh, Doing things like— I feel like my, my view on life has changed so that it's like actually me doing things for other people, for them to like me, is just a form of manipulation. It's not actually me being altruistic. It's not actually me being sensitive to others' needs. It's literally just for people to like me. And so I realized that about 2 years ago. And yeah, it was in 2021. I believe I was in Europe at the time and I think I maybe listened to a podcast or something where like they said something, something along the lines of like it's actually a form of manipulation and it just clicked for me and I was like, oh my God, like this is so me. I just want other people to like me and that's why I'm doing these things. And so that was where I really started working on these things because I'm like, I want to have a very clear, clean clean channel in my relationships with other people where I am being fully embodied in who I am and fully aligned in myself, and then allow that to create a relationship with the other person rather than— and like, if someone doesn't like it, then like, then I don't have to be friends with that person. But really allowing that clear channel between people and myself, and because that's what really creates True, true connection and true belonging is when people see who you really are. Because belonging doesn't necessarily come from, you know, people-pleasing, like making everyone like you. That's not true belonging. It's when you feel that someone else can see you and see your heart, and they still accept you for who you are. So that's just— A little, a little tidbit about why I've changed things.

I love that. I'm writing down the words connection, belonging, seeing you, seeing your heart for who you really truly are. And you wanted people to like you. And so you were using, and it was from a good heart space, but the, you were still manipulating your environment in order to attain this. And I think a really important question that We should always be asking that. I feel like is one of the undercurrents of the work that you and I do here at this podcast is to always ask is what is the unmet need that's showing up in this way? If you reflect back on that, do you have an impression of what that unmet need was?

Yes. Um, I would say validation and significance and wanting I mean, acceptance too goes into that as well. But it's— but yeah, wanting, wanting to be validated, wanting to feel like I am doing enough, being enough, right, for other people. And then the other need would probably be just like even deeper than that is the need for like social safety. Right. So, yeah,

I was gonna ask about that, like what's underneath of that. So it's like the desires, the basic human needs, these are things we long for. And then underneath of it is what is the suffering we're trying to escape?

Yes.

And that's, it's like you and I were talking earlier about how humans are just so tribal. We, we live in, for the most part, in groups with other people. We need people.

Yeah.

And so, so much of our motivation is that basic human need of acceptance and safety. And we haven't gotten into it yet, but control. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. Control has been a really fun topic that I've been exploring a lot with, like, my clients recently. And

really?

Yeah.

Control. Tell me more.

Well, because I think a lot of times we talk, we like talk about how you need to find a sense of control. Like, where can you, you know, in psychology it's like, where can you find more control in your life so that you don't have to rely on controlling some of these other things that aren't as healthy. But I also think that we don't necessarily talk enough about the fact that we also have this other need, which is to not have control. Like, we do have a basic human need of needing some sense of control over our lives, but also, like, delight only happens when we don't have control over something, right? Like, When we're pleasantly surprised by something, that's where delight happens. Delight doesn't happen if you already know what's going to happen next in your day, right? Delight happens when someone pays for you at a coffee shop. It happens when you are surprised by your partner does something nice for you. That's where you feel delight. And that's my word of the year this year. And so I've been exploring delight and control a lot. in the past few months.

And I feel like that's such a great buffer for control because the one thing that makes us uniquely human is our awareness of the fact that the story of life as we know it will end.

Mm-hmm.

Every single human, every single living being except for maybe the tardigrade will die. And that is a very powerless feeling. There is nothing that I can do to stop that. And humans have tried, and to date, as of 2023, we cannot stop that. We will— every single one of us has to reconcile with the fact that we're going to die. And this can create this, like, existential, fundamental feeling of powerlessness.

Mm-hmm.

And so having these areas where we can have a sense of agency over our lives, that is, I think, a very fundamental human need. And when we feel out of control and we feel powerlessness in our microcosm, in this greater scheme of what it is to be a living being, that's really, I think, profoundly important. So I love that that came up.

Yeah.

Talking about that.

Well, and I even love that you mentioned powerlessness and control because I feel like let's pose the question of, can you feel more powerful without needing to control, right? Like, is there a way for you to be in your personal power without needing to control? So we'll get into that more. But yeah.

I'm writing that down. How to be in your personal power without needing to be in control. Mm-hmm. Um, that sounds like the magic elixir. Do they sell it on that amazing website that's named after a forest that's being deforested?

Oh my gosh.

Okay. Okay. So y'all, how many did you get? I think there were 12. I got 6 out of 12, so I'm 50% of the way there. Hadley got 5, so she's less pleasing.

Less pleasing,

which is so arg— that's like so false. You're very pleasing. But did you know, Hadley, that there are 5 types of people pleasers?

Well, we came up with them right before this, so yes, but

let's go through them.

Yes,

I'm curious what, you know, and I think of this as a Venn diagram. Where, you know, a Venn diagram is like where you have those multiple circles and they can overlap. So you can have like a little bit of this and a little bit of that, right? For you listening.

Definitely. Yeah, I think that's a really good point.

So you may be a little blend of all of these, but I'm curious as you're listening what you feel like is your main basic human need that you're trying to achieve. And so the first one is the martyr. And so with the martyr, Hadlee and I were talking about, is this really the most honoring and complete name for this type? And essentially what it's trying to describe is that you people-please by putting everybody else's needs above your own. And we see this in caretakers.

Mm-hmm.

And there's so much content about what do you do for your anxiety or what do you do for your headaches? But then There aren't as many conversations about those who take care of the person with anxiety or headaches. And so, um, what is that basic human need? What is the caretaker, the martyr, what are they trying to accomplish? Hadlee, you had a beautiful suggestion for that.

Yeah, I think that there's a need for— I mean, it comes back to that sense of safety, social safety, where other people are appreciating you for, for doing things for them, even though they might not always be appreciating you, which causes resentment. That's like a hallmark of the martyr is the underlying resentment of I do things for other people and they don't appreciate me enough. They don't say thank you or they don't do things like reciprocal things for me. But yeah, I think the underlying need here is like that Social safety, even social currency of, like, I did stuff for you, so now you have to like me. There's, like, an obligation.

Yeah. Acceptance.

Yep.

And you were giving really interesting insight about how this could merge with Ayurveda.

Oh, yeah.

Because we're always looking at, like, these signs, these traits, these tendencies, these symptoms, being a people pleaser, whatever it is we're talking about, there's always— we want to have an integrated approach, right? So mind, body, spirit, sociological, environmental. And so then you were bringing in Ayurveda. So can you talk about the martyr, the caretaker, from an Ayurvedic perspective?

Totally. Yeah. I think most of these have an underlying piece of vata because vata tends to be the dosha. And if you, if you don't know what the, what the doshas are, we have so many podcast episodes that you can go listen to about them. But essentially vata is like the elements of air and ether. And so a lot of times that's like a feeling of ungroundedness, feeling of anxiety, and there's like a piece of fear in there. So all of these have a little layer of fear of like, I need to be accepted. I need other people to like me so that I don't— so that I feel safe. Right. And so safety is a hallmark, or like needing to find safety is a hallmark of vata, the vata dosha. But I think martyr has a piece of vata, but also a bit of kapha as well. So kapha is like the elements of, of water and earth. And so if you put those those 2 things together, it's like, I mean, it's like mud. It's like this very grounding energy, sticky. It can be like a lot of times people who tend to be more caretakers are like the, you know, the mama bears, right? The like, even if you think of like the stereotypical like caregiver, you think of someone who you would want to hug, you know, like that. Like literally their body type is one that like is softer and one that you would want to just like cuddle into, right? And so there's a piece of kapha in there for sure.

And we'll talk about how to utilize that in order to help. So if you have a tendency towards people pleasing in a way that creates suffering for you or in your relationships, of course, there's tips that you can find all over online for helping get out of those habits and create personal limitations and all these different things, which we'll touch on. But I think incorporating Healthy habits that balance your dosha or balance your doshas.

Yes.

Can really expedite that process because then you're looking at yourself as a whole system instead of just like habits only.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think not just like mindset shifts, not just like these, you know, just in your mind kind of things. Like for the martyr, which has more of that kapha tendency, I would say like weightlifting would be Really helpful. And it doesn't seem— I mean, it seems like what? Like I'm, you know, working on something like in my mind or my emotions or, you know, like a pattern that I'm, that I'm playing out in my life. But actually weightlifting can help you feel a lot more empowered in your body physically. But then that also goes out into other areas of your life too. And so, yeah, weightlifting is going to be helpful for I mean, for kapha in general, but also for just standing in your own personal power, which is going to be the antidote for the martyr.

And I'm thinking about weightlifting. If we just supercharge that with a little bit of orthopedic medicine, we've talked about this a little bit about how your body and your nervous system go into panic-producing patterns when we're stressed. And that panic-producing pattern is our arms are curled in like you're a boxer and you're going to punch. Or like you're blocking your body and your legs are really straight, like you're about ready to run or climb a tree. And when you do weightlifting, I'm thinking about like the flexion and extension of your upper body and like maybe even doing TRX, which is where you have that rope that's attached to the wall and there's hand straps and you can pull yourself. So you're extending your arms into an empowered position and then pulling them in into that panic position and then breaking it. So you're getting that fluid flow of breaking up these neurological patterns. So we're rewiring the nervous system, and then we're balancing your doshas.

Yes.

So I love that you said weightlifting. I was not expecting you to say that. That was good. I wrote it down.

Right? Yeah. It's seemingly not connected, but it actually— I mean, ask anyone who has recently gotten into weightlifting and they really enjoy it. They will tell you Oh, I feel so much more empowered now than I, than I used to. And, and that'll translate over.

Ooh, I'm pumped about that. So that's the first type. So we talked about the martyr. If you're listening, do you resonate at all with this? And it could be again on a, a Venn diagram in terms of like, oh, I have some components I resonate with, others I do. And then it could also be a gradation. So like, yeah, I'm like a 4 outta 10. I totally martyr it up, but maybe there's other ones. That you resonate more with. So number 2 is the fawn, and this comes from the fight, flight, freeze response. And so a lot of people know about those 3, but there's actually more. And in my book Panic Proof, I write about 6 of them. And so it's fight, flight, freeze, flop, fawn, and fracture. So these are 6 main ways that we respond to stress or autonomic arousal. And the fawn is a response where you try to earn the approval or the protection from somebody who you see as in an authority position. And you're doing it— that basic need is to make you safe from danger or protect you from danger. So an example of this is I fawn. Like, that's my, I think, number one type of people-pleasing subtype, is that Growing up, I had very authoritarian caretakers and I would, I was like an ass kisser basically, right?

Oh,

you really like Dungeons and Dragons? That is so cool. Tell me about that. Or, oh, you like heavy metal and Rob Zombie? Wow. Tell me about that. When like, in all reality, I wanted to listen to like Wilson Phillips and Tiffany, right? And so that's a fawn response. The motivation is to keep yourself safe from danger.

I love it. I mean, and something that I wanted to make sure that we talk about too is because we've talked about this in previous podcast episodes too, and I've mentioned this, that your fawning is also your superpower. It's something that I admire in you so much because you are able to find the really interesting, like, beneficent, good qualities in other people. Like, I'm— it's something that I want to do more of. Like, I want to just like be like, Oh my gosh, you're amazing. You know, like, like, because I, I do think that about humanity. I think there are like amazing qualities about everyone, but I don't— that's not my, my go-to is I'm not like, wow, this person has this amazing quality and you are so good at that. So

that just made like— you just hit me in the feels right there. And I feel— thank you. Yeah, I feel really loved and seen. by you saying that, because I think it's easy for me to look at that and feel embarrassed or ashamed, or like you were saying earlier, like manipulative.

Right.

And I am so grateful that you just showed me the light side of that. We were talking about there's a light side and a dark side, and the light side is seeing, oh, you are interested in Dungeons and Dragons, like aligning with them and having like part of me sincerely be curious and joining. Yeah.

Yeah, because people— I mean, when, when people are passionate about something, they're magnetic, right? It doesn't matter what the topic is, but you're just so good at like pulling that out of people. They're like magnetism and their, their passion. And it's really beautiful. So that's— there's like, there's the light side to all of these things. Absolutely.

Thank you, Hadz. What is— what's the Ayurvedic disposition typically that you see in a

Oh, that's like straight vata. I think I'm

raising my hand because that's me straight up. That's how I tend to roll,

right? Yeah, I think there might be a little bit of kapha in there because kaphas are a little bit more like empathetic. They can kind of— they're good at people. Like, kaphas tend to be just like more like nurturing and stuff, but I think it's mostly vata because it's like, yeah, there's like a sense of I need safety and so I'm going to identify all these things. But also again, like there's amazing qualities in vata too, and one of them is just being able to see that passion in other people and then like feeding off of that passion too and like getting you getting excited about it at the same time as the other person. So yeah, being excitable is a very vata a thing. And so I think that's part of it as well.

I love that so much. I'm not feeling so bad about being a fawner.

Oh yeah. Let's talk about the martyr, the like light, the light parts of the martyr. And if you don't resonate with like light and dark side, I mean like light and shadow or whatever, it's, it's just like things that you can, you can point out that are like helpful and not necessarily harmful because they're not all harmful.

And the language that you're— we're using is from Jung. Carl Jung talked a lot about shadow and light side. And so it's— so if— yeah, if, you know, dark isn't bad, it's just that which we tend to keep hidden.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. That's what his definition of like shadow is, is things that we keep hidden that are— it's essentially our subconscious mind. Yeah. Is the shadow. So, but yeah, so martyr, Like, they're basically like the care— the caretakers, the people who are super generous, super giving. Like, I mean, it's not— it's not hard to see what amazing qualities the martyr or the caretaker have. Like, they're helping other people so much, and there are amazing qualities in that. And then the shadow side comes in when there's that piece of, like, resentment. If If it's not giving from a place of just wanting to give, it's rather giving from a place of either obligation or a need for something to come back in return. It's not just an overflow of generosity.

Thank you for that differentiation. Yeah. So we talked about the martyr, the shadow and the light. We talked about what that might look like, the dosha. We talked about the faun, similar. And then the next one is the Magnetizer.

This one's me.

This is Hadlee. So they have a basic human motivator of desiring significance, of desiring validation. Sometimes they can lean too much on others' opinions to define them, lift them up, and validate them and help them feel important or worthy or special, right?

Yeah, it goes with my 3 in the Enneagram. It's like achievement-oriented. I also was given a ton of praise as a kid, which like I'm very grateful for, but like for achieving things and like, you know, my parents always told me how proud they were of me when I did something. They— I mean, they were great parents. I've told you about this on the podcast before, but like my parents were amazing. And I also like felt a need for achieving things in order to feel that sense of like enoughness or power or whatever from other people. And, you know, they did it from a place of love and, you know, and wanting me to feel good about myself. But that's kind of how it ended up being a thing for me. So, so yeah, so essentially it's like needing a sense of validation. I realized that I sort of do this whole song and dance of making sure that everyone in the room likes me and needing everyone in the room to like me. My husband, Todd, always makes fun of me because I know the people who don't like me from my whole life. I can name the people who have not liked me in my life. And he's like, it's weird that, you know, that you can, like, count on your hands, like, the people that don't like you. And I'm sure there are others too, but they just didn't, like, tell me that they didn't like me. But, but yeah, like, this is like a thing that, like, has, like, bothered me about, like, you know, this one person, this other person, this other person that don't like me.

Yeah, well, and you are so magnetic, and I've seen you in social situations, like when we went to your birthday. We surprised Hadley for her birthday this year. We all came out to San Diego.

Yes.

And I watched you because you're just such a delight and I like to watch you. And I totally see that. And for me, on the outsiders, it doesn't feel like it's about you. It feels like you want everyone to feel magnetic, like that they're important, that they're really interesting. And I think that could be the light side of the magnetizer is they are They're the one who brings everyone together and makes people feel excited and happy. And the shadow side, on the other hand, can be when it comes from a place of suffering, like, I'm needing that significance or I'm needing that validation in order to feel good myself. And this amazing skill that I have in magnetizing other people is like really good, but also like, how is this showing up for me? And so—

Totally. Yeah.

What I, what I was thinking about when you were talking about your parenting is I appreciate that you mentioned that. Maybe there are some young parents listening today that— what would you say, Hadlee? I love the idea of commending effort and commending, um, like, wow, look how hard you worked, I'm so proud of you, or look how much effort you put in, or look at how hard you tried, or look at your commitment to seeing this Through and commending more of those traits as opposed to the outcome.

Totally. Yeah. And that's what Carol Dweck's work is all about in growth. I think her book is called Mindset, but she talks about the growth mindset comes from when we get praised for our efforts or for our ability to stick it through even if we're not succeeding with an outcome. We're succeeding because we are just You know, trying something. And yeah, that's I think I think that's huge. I think also like just and it might feel kind of weird, but like with your kids, even just like letting them know that no matter what they do, no matter like if they achieve things or if they don't achieve things, like I. love you and I'm proud of you and I appreciate you and all of that kind of thing, um, is huge. Like, not needing a— not needing a milestone to tell your kids stuff, um, is, is massive. Like, and like, and I say this, like, my parents told me they loved me like every day, right?

I met your parents. They're amazing.

They're amazing. They're like really cool. And they've like— they're like They've like, they tried so hard. They read so many parenting books and stuff.

Yeah, they're incredible.

Yeah, they're really amazing. Um, but yeah, like really telling your kids like, I am proud of you for the person that you are, um, rather than your achievements and stuff, uh, is, is really huge too, which my parents did that too. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's, it's massive.

I'm proud of who you are.

Thank you.

Yeah, I love who you are. It's wonderful.

I love who you are. Oh yeah, and I think I like— I've worked on this a lot too. I've also worked on, um, there was also sort of like a messaging of just in my childhood, not even just with parents but like in general, of if you are, you know, if you Shine too bright, then it's selfish, right? You're taking the attention from other people. You're stealing the attention. So the fact that you just reflected to me that me do— me shining, me like being, you know, that person that I am, it actually makes other people feel like they can be that too. Like, that hit me really, like, hit my heart. So thank you for that. I

really— Oh girl, I see you.

Yeah, I see you. So yeah, so there's great parts of all of these things. And when we do it in a need of validation, in need of, you know, other people to make us feel okay about ourselves, that's where the shadow is.

That's the unmet need that when you're thinking about how to transition from being a people pleaser that is out of suffering, that's That motivation is what you need to treat. It's not just like we said; it's not just about creating new mindset, new habits. It's an unmet need. We'll get there. We'll get there.

Yeah, yeah.

And then did we talk about which dosha this is? I know what it is because I know you.

Yeah. So for anyone who's been listening for a while, I told you this one is the only one that I could think of that was pitta. It's like the need to be important. It's so, so— pitta is the element of like the element of fire, essentially. There's a little bit of water in there too, but like, yeah, fire needing that, that importance, that significance, that validation.

Yeah. Yeah.

So then, so things to do to like balance not only the like magnetizer, like, you know, the pattern, like the specific patterns, but you also want to balance your pizza as well. So like, go swimming, do things with water, like things that are going to calm the fire. And, you know, and even like harnessing the fire in, in different ways. Like, I will— like, I'll sing with myself, you know, like not needing someone else to be like validating. Like, I'll sing in the car or I'll sing like before I start my workday.

Or on this podcast.

Or on the podcast. I'm going to do karaoke tomorrow night with some friends. I'm so excited.

We got to get a clip and we'll change our intro music to you.

I love it. Oh my gosh. But so you can harness that fire, but you also want to balance it out with some of the— with water, but also with space. Because space helps to tame the fire, essentially. And not even dim the fire, but just allows it to be there without needing to change it, essentially. So finding space in your day, in your time, having moments of calm and that kind of thing is really, really helpful for pitta.

So let's create some space now. We're going to take a little bit of a break, and then when we come back, we're going to finish up with the last 2 types of people pleasers. We're going to get into some of the causes of people pleasing and tips to be in your self-sovereignty, and we'll talk about what that means. So you're not going to want to miss it. Stay tuned. Hey, Hadlee, what have you been up to lately?

Ah, I have been up to— I just actually, uh, at the time of this recording, started a new round of my Happy Healthy Habits program, which I'm very excited about. The next round is going to be starting in January. We're going to have a challenge actually coming up. So if you want to learn more about the— there's going to be a free 5-day challenge, and then after that there will be an opportunity to join my Happy Healthy Habits program as well. But if you want to learn more about that, go check out my Instagram, the link in my bio, and there will be all sorts of information on there.

I love that. I've been doing some fun stuff. Yeah, I know. So we have the Holistic Wellness Collective, which Hadz has been a guest in. And by joining the Holistic Wellness Collective, you pay a very small amount a month and you will attain mastery. So anytime that you have a symptom come up, whether it's stress or overwhelm or anxiety, or one of your family members feels irritable, is you'll know exactly what to do to unwind that. So that you actually can heal. And so you can check that out by going to the link in my bio at Dr. Nicole Kane on Insta.

It's really wonderful, y'all. People are always posting and they're like, I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this question, but you're allowed to ask all the questions and you get very specific answers specific to your needs and stuff. It's really an amazing community.

Thank you. Um, I hear we're doing a really cool podcast right now. You want to get back at it?

Let's do it.

All right, everyone, thanks for hanging out with us during our little break. We needed to, to calm our pittas, and now we're gonna finish the subtypes of people pleasers. Are you ready, Hads?

Let's do it. The last 2.

The last 2. So the 4th subtype is called the Peacemaker. And this is somebody who cannot tolerate conflict or a lack of peace in their environment. And actually, this is garnered from the Enneagram, which, if you guys haven't heard of the Enneagram, it's intended to be a companion to the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. So if you've ever heard of like, are you an extrovert or an introvert or a sensor or a thinker, whatever, the Enneagram is a companion to that, and it can help you figure out what ways you emotionally adapted to trauma and stress in your life. And a peacemaker is a subtype of people pleaser where conflict in your environment is very disturbing and distressing and you just straight up need peace. And so your motivators are to create peace by people pleasing.

Yes. And both of our husbands are this one.

God bless them.

God bless them. And there's a lot of light here. Like, we appreciate them so much for this.

Yes. Yeah, it's so nice to have people around that are not adding to the fire, that they're like, okay, what can we do to like create— we all want peace, and to have people who are like motivated by that to help create, that's wonderful.

Absolutely. Yeah, so sometimes it looks like, um, you know, solving people's problems for them in an attempt to create peace. Sometimes it looks like just You know, avoiding certain topics, not wanting to rock the boat. You know, even if they have something that that's really on their heart, that they you know that might create some sort of resentment if they're not gonna like if they're not talking about it, they might not bring that kind of thing up. But the really wonderful thing about peacemakers is that it does feel really calming to to be around them. Like Todd is my husband is my is like. One of the most steady humans. Like, everyone who knows him is like, oh yeah, Todd's super chill. Um, and it's wonderful. It allows me to not be chill. Not a chill person. And I'm okay with that. Like, really, I am. I used to want to be like a cool, chill girl, and I'm just not that way. Don't care. But he is a peacemaker. And so therefore he is like super, super calm, super calming, and allows me to kind of, you know, be able to do my thing. Though sometimes it like gets to him and his tendency is to not necessarily bring it up because he doesn't want conflict. So, so that's the peacemaker from what I— from, from where I stand.

Which is so fun because there are I feel like based on what you're describing, there's got to be subtypes of peacemaker flavors because Paul and Todd are both peacemakers, but Paul is like the antithesis of calm.

Yeah, right. True.

He's, he's like running around and he is like, is there stress over here? What am I going to do to make it stop? Someone over here is unhappy. How do I fix it? And so his brain is—

The fixer. Yeah.

Fixer peacemaker.

Yes.

And this could be really good, but I think that it can show up as sort of micromanagey.

Yeah.

Where it's like, oh, you have conflict over here, you need to do this because I can't tolerate the fact that you're in conflict.

Yes, right, exactly.

I just need y'all to have peace and I'm just gonna fix it and I'm gonna tell you how to do that. So there's like, for him, I feel like he's got a little bit of that urgency that Todd is energetically balancing out your squirrely pitta-ness. And so he's grounding you and he's chill. And then Paul's very vata and he's running around trying to put out his perceived fires.

Yes, totally. Yeah, I feel like maybe we separate this into 2 things where it's the fixer and then the I mean, and then Peacemaker still is the other one, but like, but where, where Todd has more of that kapha grounding energy. Yeah, Paul has more of the— he— I mean, I think he also has a bit of that pitta because fixing is a very pitta thing.

It is.

Identifying problems and fixing them is so fiery, is so like, I can see the problem, let me fix it and then move on to the next thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so knowing what, in what way your doshas are out of balance may help you figure out what subtype of people pleaser you may be.

Totally. Yeah.

It's like, oh, there's a, I have a little bit of that pit of fire. Oh, okay. So maybe, maybe do I need to do an audit of am I micromanaging people and trying to fix people? And if I am, what is that motivation? Am I trying to just make them all happy because I need them to be happy so I could be happy? Or what is that?

Oh my gosh, this is like a great— like, my mom is a great example of this too, and she won't mind me sharing this, I don't think. She has worked on it a lot and has actually, has like way, way, way improved this. But, uh, she used to be like the kind of person who would like befriend people because they needed her help, right? And so that's another piece of that like fixer tendency of like, she was like, oh well, I can like Not that she was like, well, I like— they're bad and I need to fix them, but like, I can help them with this, right? And so that's another piece of the fixer tendency. And she also has a lot of pitta in her constitution as well. So yeah,

that makes so much sense.

And then I think that's the 5th type is the fixer. Yeah, there's— well, then there's fixer and then there's number 6, which is— we can get into that next.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, well, actually, I feel like that So we talked about the peacemaker. The fundamental unmet need is they just need peace. They cannot tolerate conflict. And so then we have these 2 subtypes where it's like that peacemaker, I'm just going to make you happy to make peace. And then there's that subtype of the fixer is I'm going to make you happy by fixing your problems, because if you're happy, I'm happy.

Yes.

And so then we have the vata-kapha combo and then that vata-pitta combo that sort of differentiates them on an Ayurvedic kind of energy.

Totally. So if you tend to be more of that fixer tendency that has more of that pitta, same, same things apply, like doing some more calming things, doing more like things that soothe the fire within you. Anything to do with water, you know, baths, maybe, maybe making the bath not too hot, but baths, like going swimming, that kind of thing is like huge. One of my favorite things to do, especially in the summer when it's like actually hot, is I will literally just lie down on the ground like starfish pose, spread out, like just like letting the heat dissipate from my body.

I love that you— it's like I'm the opposite. I'm like,

yeah, you need all the like blankets and all. Yeah. Yeah.

We went out on your boat and I brought my heated Ororo and I was wearing like 3 pairs of pants that day. And you guys were like, do you really want to go out on the boat? And I was like, y'all, I put on 3 pairs of pants. We're going out on this boat. I'm so cold and freezing.

It was a really cold day.

You were a good sport. Todd is a people pleaser, so he drove the boat.

Yeah,

of

course, of course. The

last subtype. Are y'all ready? It's the empath.

Yes.

And so you're— you are a people pleasing empath if you suffer so much from other people's unpleasant emotions that you have to make them feel better so that you feel better.

Yeah.

And this is different than conflict. Like, one is the peacemaker, right? I can't tolerate any sort of conflict. So if you two aren't getting along or you're not making money in your job or like whatever it is you have conflict with, that's, that's the differentiation with peacemaker versus the empath is that's I feel what you feel. And I don't think what you're feeling is good for me, then I have to fix it. I have to make you better. I have to please you.

Totally. So that can kind of go into the fixer, the fixer tendency as well. But it might also be like, you know, it might be like trying to distract someone from their emotions. It might be like— it might also be like, let's dive deep into that and like, you know, uncover all of your childhood wounds. Like, this is another one that I I have tended to do in the past where it's like, well, let's get to the root of this and like, you know, fix it. But yeah, it might also be like, oh, you are feeling this way. So let's— we need to talk about something else. We need to like change the subject because you need to find— you need to think about something else so that I can feel okay. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, I like that a lot. So as we're coming to— I think we're like 40-something minutes into this podcast, and I feel like we could talk for hours about this, but I kind of want to jump through a little bit quicker some of the root causes of people pleasing. You and I had gone over like 3 main ones.

Yeah.

And then I would love to hear some of the tips that you have. I have a couple, but I feel like that's like your zone of genius is like habits and tips and hacks. Yes.

Oh, thank you.

Does that sound okay? Can we talk a little bit about causes?

Yeah, totally.

So the number one— so we broke these into 3 main categories. There's psychological, biological, and social/environmental. And so the psychological is that we want to look at all of these tendencies or these experiences as adaptive responses to adversity. And so can I parse that apart just a little bit?

Yes, please.

So an adaptive response. So adapt, that refers to adaptation, your ability to, like, if it's cold, you adapt by putting on a coat. If it's hot, you adapt by taking off your coat or getting in a swimming pool. Right. And so your mind, your body, your nervous system are continuously making adaptations second by second in order to make you best suited for survival. And when you go through adversity, and that could be anything that requires an adjustment outside of your existing toolbox, and so you make a new adjustment, right? So you go through adversity, difficulty, stress, trauma, and your nervous system, your behaviors, everything has to adapt to that. And so maybe because of what you have experienced, you adapted in a way that you became a people pleaser, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so when you're looking at these people pleasing traits, if you have decided, like Hadlee, you did when you were listening to that podcast and you had that aha moment, is then ask yourself, what is the unmet need that I have here? And what happened or didn't happen that I had to adapt to In a way that is now continuing to play itself out in my life that could be causing me to not be in full sovereignty of what my truest highest self is, right? So what is that adaptation? Thoughts?

Yeah, so I think it comes, it comes down to a need for, I mean, safety, right? safety in our nervous system, safety in our bodies. And, you know, part of that goes with like the social aspect of it where like we need to feel like other people accept us so that we can feel safe or feel like we're part of the herd, right? Rather than because we can't survive without other people around us. And so the adaptation there is going to be— it's going to be different for all of the different types. I also want to like Mention that, you know, sometimes we think of people pleasers as just the martyr, or we might even think of just the people pleasers as the empath. But we wanted to break it down into all of these different things because there are different needs, like slightly different needs for each one of them. And like, I never really super resonated with like the martyr. I was like, you know, like, I feel like I give myself what I need before I help other people, but I definitely people please in the magnetizer way, right? So there's, so there's differences there. But I think, yeah, ultimately it comes down to safety, acceptance, and a need for

control.

Yeah, control, control. Those 3 things are the biggest ones.

I agree. I totally agree. It's like those basic human needs: safety, acceptance, and control. And so in what way, how did that show up or lack of that show up for you? And so by acknowledging that and doing the work on your origin story, your history, that can really help you. It's almost like pulling the weeds out instead of just chopping off the tops.

Yes. Yeah, totally.

So that's a cause. That's one of the psychological root causes. The second is the biological. And so anytime that you make an adaptation, your biology also adapts. And so If your mental emotional experience adapts, your stress hormone will change. And when your stress hormone changes, your inflammation changes and your gut changes, and then that can change your endocrine system. So like cortisol or estrogen or thyroid or whatever, right? So your whole body will make adaptations. So you may go into the doctor and your doctor may say, oh, you have really high thyroid hormone. That could be an adaptation to an earlier incident or a series of incidents in your life so that you are better able to survive those incidents even though they're past. And so doing the work on what your body has been adapting to and reverse engineering that can actually help not just the people pleasing out of suffering, but can help your thyroid. Right?

Right. And that's where the Ayurveda comes in too, because it really is so holistic where it's Everything that you do for your body is also going to impact your mind and vice versa as well. And so as you work on this stuff, you might— I mean, as you work on the like mental, emotional part of this, you might find that there are symptoms in your body that start to clear up. And then like conversely, you might find that also, like with my, my clients, the first thing that we focus on are like the basic fundamental health habits. And then we go into— after that, we go into nervous system regulation and emotional processing, because when we have those fundamental health habits, then our physiology supports our ability to change our mental and emotional patterns and stuff as well.

It's like a readaptation.

Yeah, right, right.

Yeah,

exactly. Yeah.

And the third one is societal and environmental expectations. And Hadlee, I would love for you to touch on this because you had some really wise things to say when we were chatting earlier.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know how wise they are, but sure, I'll accept that they were wise.

Yeah, I was gonna say, you're gonna accept that, girl? Like, yeah, I am wise.

I am wise. Yes, if we got anything from the Barbie movie, we know that we can just fully accept the compliment. So I wanted to really be clear here that it's not that you're doing something wrong if you have any of these things. One of them, they might be like a, just something that you were born with, like a tendency toward that thing, right? Like, like you, Dr. Cain, are like more tended toward fawning. Like, that's one of your superpowers, right, is finding the good in other people. Plus, you know, you were layered. There were things layered on you like biologically and socially as a kid. But I want to also bring in the fact that like Our overarching environment in like our society also plays a huge factor in this as well. So for like the martyr specifically, I mean for a lot of these, but the martyr, you will probably find that there are more women in our society who have this pattern than than have the other patterns. You might find that the magnetizer actually there are more men because women are discouraged from being the ones that are like. putting themselves out there, being like the center of attention. Women are discouraged from that and they're told that they're selfish and men are told that that's what they should do. And then you might find that there— yeah, there are more martyrs where women are supposed to put— supposed to in quotations— put themselves, put everyone else before their own needs, especially moms. Right. And so this is a societal thing. This is a It's not like a necessarily just a you problem that you have to like, you know, it's your fault and you got to deal with it, right? But there are ways that you can deal with it even though it is a societal challenge, right? So same with fawn. Fawn tends to be more of a female thing where it's like, you know, like the classic example is like, you know, fawning on someone, fawning on like a man, right? Like women fawning over men so that they can feel safe, right? Mm-hmm. And then, yeah, the magnetizer might be more tended toward male, though I have it. The peacemaker, peacemaker, maybe slightly tended more toward women, but like there's like that fixer tendency too. So I feel like that one's kind of both. And then the empath, women are typically in our society like taught to be more empathetic and be able to, like, process emotion, like, or be able to feel other people's emotions, maybe not be able to process them, but be able to feel other people's emotions. And so there might be more female empaths. And that's not necessarily that women are more like just from the get-go, women are more likely to have these things. I think there's a societal overarching thing that impacts all of this.

And so that can be an obstacle to cure, is what is your family dynamic? What is the societal dynamic and expectations and limitations around you? And what does that look like in terms of you being able to make changes in your lived experience?

Totally. Yeah. So we got to take that into consideration. And there are things that we can do about it too. So don't let that make you feel like, oh, well, there's nothing I can do about it because it's a societal thing or it's Like, thing in my family or that kind of thing.

Yeah. Let's rapid fire a few hacks here, some tips. And the goal that Hadlee and I worked out is we want to help you embody compassionate assertive agency because we're sitting there like, well, what is the opposite of people pleasing? And people pleasing is putting other people first, putting yourself down underneath in terms of importance. And so we were looking at, okay, you want to be assertive, you want to be self- sovereign, but you want to do so in a compassionate way. And so Hadley said, here's how to have self-sovereignty. That's— these are the tips. So can, can we rapid-fire some tips?

Yeah, let's do it. What do you, what do you have first?

So number 1 is look at your origin story. Look at what the unmet needs may be for you and look at where they came from. And then I would say number 2 is knowing it's not a you problem, but it's also an environmental societal problem. And so doing an audit of your environment and your culture and seeing, are there things in place that you have some power over changing, or at least changing your relationship with? So those are 2 that I have.

Yeah, to piggyback off the environmental piece of it. A big thing that is part of the behavior change literature is architecting your environment. So making it so that you have a— so that it's way more likely for you to do whatever habit or change you want to have. So for example, let's say you are the martyr and you want to change your environment to make it so that you don't You put everyone's needs above your own all the time. So maybe you set up a system so that, let's say, like in your family, you set up like a chore system so that other people are actually pulling their own weight within your house. And then you're not constantly thinking, well, you know, I need to do this for everyone else. And so that would be an example of architecting your environment. I'm trying to think of— Any other ones for like, for like the magnetizer, it might be setting yourself up so that you feel fulfilled in different areas of your life. So maybe you have like, like for me, this is, this is an exact, this is an actual example from my life that I've, that I've done is I have a speaker in my kitchen that I always have there and that's always charged so that I can play songs and sing when I'm in my kitchen. And I don't need validation from other people because I'm, I'm lighting my own fire in that moment. And so the more I do that for myself, I don't need the validation from other people because I just feel good myself.

I love that. Yeah. A wins board is another thing that I think could be really helpful too.

Totally.

Celebrating effort and being really intentional to write down, like, today I got up and I did a meditation and I brushed my teeth and I washed my hair. Like, I'm putting effort in. Or maybe it's like, I went and I pitched that television station my new show. Like, it could be anything, right? So celebrating effort instead of outcome could be something I think is really great for the magnetizer because there is this feeling of I need significance and validation. And so giving, assigning significance to effort.

Totally. Yes, I love that. That's a great idea. And bringing in fun is another thing for pittas. Pittas tend to be really serious. So the magnetizer and maybe even the fixer one, bringing in fun into your life is going to be really helpful for just balancing pitta in general, but also not needing to fix other people because you're just having fun, or not needing to achieve all of these things because you're just having fun. And that's massive.

And I think for the Peacemaker also is they suffer when they hear about conflict, but they could also really meddle in other people's conflict. And so I think is really knowing your limits on like, okay, I don't need to make this my problem, or it Creates stress for me when I hear about y'all's conflict. And so you guys need to work it out. I can't be the person to be hearing about all of this. And so establishing limits, and I'm using the word limits instead of boundaries because I think it's really important to know what your expectations are for yourself and others. And not necessarily in a way that, like Hadley used the words, build a wall. We don't wanna necessarily build a wall because what we really want, that basic human need includes connectivity and we're trying to attain connectivity. But creating limits and expectations can help you be connected without overextending yourself and creating suffering.

Yeah, I often use the word expectations with my clients because it's like instead of, instead of having a wall between yourself and the other person, it's like, no, I'm just actually going to set the expectation for how I want this relationship to flow. Like how, what, what are the expectations for this relationship in the future? So like for the martyr, Expectations might be, actually, I am no longer going to be the person that unloads the dishwasher, right, in your family. Or I am no longer— if, you know, I am not going to make a different dinner for every single person in my family. This is a thing I see all the time. If you like that, moms will make different dinners for every single person. And if, you know, if you love doing that, then that's wonderful. But if that causes any sort of resentment, make one dinner. And if any— like, everyone else gets to make their own thing if they don't like what you have brought to the table, right? So those are just like small— like, those are like familial examples. But if you tend to be a martyr, even if you're not a mom, setting expectations for this is how I'm going to show up in this relationship and this is how I expect you to show up in this relationship too. And if you can't commit to that, then I'm not going to give you as much of my, my time and my energy. I'm just— and you can do this in a loving way too. I think a lot of times people are like, oh my God, that's so harsh. Like, I don't want to be that person that's like mean. But you can do this in a really loving way. You can absolutely love on someone and, and also say, you know, you don't have to tell them like, well, I need you to do this for me, otherwise I'm not doing this for you. It doesn't need to be tit for tat. It can be more like, I am not going to have the, you know, the energy or the time to be able to do this thing for you or whatever it might be. And just being really honest about that.

I really love that. And what you're saying is I think you're emphasizing the importance of remembering that relationships require give and take. And so that means sometimes you may be able to, you know, if you, if you and your partner show up, it's very rarely going to be like you give 50, I give 50%. Oftentimes You're going to have a day where you could go to your partner and be like, you know what, I only have 10% today. Would you be open to taking the other 90%? And then being like, you know what, I totally got that. And then there may be a day where they come to you and they're like, I only have 5% today. And you're like, that's okay, I got you. And so it's like helping attain a little bit more balance by practicing loving yourself and loving that other person by establishing expectations and limits.

Totally. The first time I heard that was from Brené Brown, where she talks about the, like, that percentage. She also mentions that, like, you don't always have in your coupledom, you don't always have a full 100%. Like, one person might have 20% and the other person's like, well, I only have 20% too. I can't pick up the slack, right? And then that's when we ask for outside help because we are in such a weird world that we think that our partners have to give us everything that we need in a social, like an interpersonal way. But that's never been how humans are. Like, we have this weird nuclear family thing now that's only been around for 100 years where people used to live in like multifamily houses and communities and stuff. And so how can you then ask for help from outside people as well? So that's another tip is to really bring in Social support as much as you can.

Gosh, I so am glad that you mentioned that. That's amazing. So it could be a therapist, a doctor, a counselor, a mentor, whatever would be valuable and helpful to help meet the needs of you and your—

Childcare. Yeah, cook me food.

Food trains. Yeah, anything.

Yeah, food trains. Oh my gosh, this is huge. Yes, like making it so that My mom had— my parents are part of this like little like club thing, like they call it a soup group where they all bring soups and then they— everyone gets to bring home, you know, a different soup that they freeze and then they get to have that for like, you know, a few weeks.

Oh, I love soup.

I know it's soup season now.

It's soup season. It's October and we're recording this. All right. This is so good. So today we talked about people pleasing. What do you all think? Do you resonate? And if you do, What type of people pleaser do you vibe the most with? What is the root of that? And what are you going to do to help you feel more sovereign in yourself? Let us know.

Yes, because you get to have control over yourself and your life a lot more than you might think that you do. So I'm really excited for everyone to start feeling more of that power without needing control, that self, self-empowerment.

That's magic. All right, thanks everyone. Thanks, Hadlee.

Bye everyone.

Bye.

Bye.