A Holistic Approach to Clearer Skin (and Unleashing Your Inner Superhero) with Dr. DJ Sims | Ep. 95

Welcome to Holistic Inner Balance. I am Dr. Nicole, and this is—

I'm Happy Healthy Hadlee.

We have Dr. Dijar K. Sims here, and she is a guest that was like a hands-down no-brainer request for Hadlee and I, and we're super pumped to have you here. So thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited too.

I want to introduce people to you. I'm just going to like read your bio really quickly. And then I already have like 100,000 questions. And so we're going to hit the ground running today, but this is going to be a conversation y'all aren't going to want to miss. If you have skin or know somebody who has skin, then this conversation is relevant for you. And we're going to get into the nitty-gritty intersection of skin and mental health. And so meet our expert. Uh, Dr. DJ is known as Dr. DJ by her patients. She's a naturopathic physician, published author. She's a prolific speaker. She's also incredibly funny. She's the CEO and founder of Superhero Skincare. She's a virtual practice, and her primary focus is on the non-pharmaceutical treatment of acne, eczema, psoriasis, and hair loss. She's been a speaker at medical conferences. She's spoken at Comic-Con. She's been a keynote speaker. And she is lively and energetic, in part due to her training in improv comedy at the finest city improv in San Diego and Second City in Hollywood. And you're gonna definitely want to check her out on her website and social media. She's an amazing presence to be seen. So if you have your device in your hand, then go ahead and open up your browser, go to www. Superheroeskincare.com. You can schedule a 15-minute free discovery call. And she also, in addition to all the other gloriousness, skin and beauty-based, she has an herbal throat spray called Voice Restore. And she has specifically formulated it for those who use their voice professionally as a living— singers, speakers, actors, influencers. I'm talking to you. Uh, if you have to talk at all in your daily life, this might also be valuable for you. She's also on Instagram, and that's my favorite way to keep up with all the cool stuff that she's doing. And her handle is Dr. DJ Sims, and doctor is spelled out. So girl, I'm so pumped that we are finally reconnecting again here and today. Thank you for being here.

Yes, I'm so excited. Let's chat, let's talk, let's do all things skin. I love that intro about like, if you have skin, that's exactly—

I know, right?

I don't wanna see people that don't have skin. I only wanna see people with skin.

And I feel like that's the right decision, especially given like level of treatment severity. If you don't have skin, you need to be maybe in a hospital.

You need to be in a hospital. That's not what I do. I don't want to see— and I hate that I have this bias for people with skin, but—

What do you— you know, what are you going to do? I mean, we can't all be perfect at everything.

Let me give you some vitamin C for that lack of skin. Yeah. No, you can do that.

The lack of skin.

That's not how naturopathic medicine works.

It's definitely not how naturopathic medicine works. But if you do come up with a solution for skin-free people, then you will make millions and millions of dollars. And remember this podcast as the origin, origin of that idea.

I will always give you credit. Always. Thank you.

I love it. Oh my gosh, she's really funny.

We intersect in some funny ways too. So I knew you when you were DJ, and then you became Dr. Dijar Sims, and then you, I feel like, embraced your DJ-ness instead of like— I feel like, I don't know what your experience was, but my experience coming out of our medical school was a little bit more like serious and masculine. And then I have sort of embraced like the unicorn, shiny, quirky, silly, sparkly, but like really academically rigorous version of my doctor self. How has that been for you?

Oh my gosh, that could be a whole other topic segment. It's hard to like marry your true self to your doctor self because I always kept that separate. Like when I did improv, it was like, I'm doing improv. And I'm DJ. And then I'm like, hello, I'm Dr.

Sims.

Mm-hmm. Dr. Jazara K. Sims, you know? And I realized that I was being that when sometimes the Dr. Sims would mix and then people would be like, oh, what are you? What are you? Who are you? What are you? What is this person? I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, doctor hat. Let me take that off. Sorry. And I'm like, how can I— like, I'm these 2 people and I didn't wanna have this dual existence. And so it's like, what does that look like for me? Like, how can I present myself as this doctor And still be my silly self, because it's not just like she's funny. Like, I'm kind of a goofball, and I'm really geeky and nerdy, and I'm like, how can I do that? How can I do? And so this, when you see on Instagram, is this morphing, me morphing into whoever I'm supposed to be online, because I'm still figuring that out. Like, how do you be funny and not like lose your professionalism? Yeah, that's a big thing.

I love—

yeah, I feel so good. Worse being like this, like, and this is just kind of the intersection of me being a Black woman where you're carrying the weight of the world on your shoulder, where people are like, you are representing all people of color and you have to be professional and you cannot. And I'm like, but I'm, but I'm kind of goofy. I, I have professionalism, but I can do that in a funny way. And then you get a lot of like backlash from that of like, oh my gosh, but you're But you have to represent us all and be like the certain thing, this picture of who you are. And so that's been, that's been a journey in itself. That's why I was like the outside of skin. That's a whole other like podcast topic, like finding who you are online and being your, being your true authentic self.

All right, all, if that's an interesting topic for you, then send us a message and we'll get, we'll get DJ and Dr. DJ back on the podcast.

All of my mini selves.

Bring them all!

Only if I can do characters. If I can do characters.

Yes, please, yes!

Only if I can do a minimum of 3 to 5 characters, and then that's fine.

Oh my gosh, I love it. Well—

My favorite one is the—

You have a favorite? Hold on.

No, my favorite character is always the woman who's

We're all stroking

our cats, our virtual cats in the video. Who is that person that like walks in the room and strokes a cat as she stares at you?

Cruella de Vil.

She's a villain. Yes, I love

that.

Villain era.

Except Cruella would have a dog.

Oh my gosh, I love it. Well, I love that you bring in— I love that you have in your bio, you include the improv, because I mean, it's so cool that you're bringing these things together. And like, um, well, and to spill the tea, Dr. DJ was my doctor, so, uh, up until like 2 years ago, and she was amazing. Like, love— so we have like all of these different things. I don't know Dr. DJ through Dr. Kane. Like, I know her because she was my doctor, and then I found out that Dr. Kane also like knows her as well. So like, just so many synchronicities. Um, but just speaking to the fact that you do bring in that with the professionalism, you still bring in that goofiness. Because my, um, my husband, we would always joke that he was like like I would be on a, um, on a call with her, like just through, you know, the ethers, through this, through the, um, media, because it was COVID time, so I wasn't going into the office. Um, and he would hear me in the other room just cracking up, like for the whole hour that we were talking. You know, we're talking about like challenges that I'm going through with my skin and my health and all these things, and I'm just like laughing and having so much fun. And it's like— My favorite part of the month was connecting with Dr. DJ. So I just love that you bring in both of those things.

Oh, thank you. I mean, and that's one of the things that was really important to me because having any type of skin disease, whether it's acne, eczema, psoriasis, especially hair loss as well, you have this sadness. When people come into me, they are devastated. They're depressed. They're sad. And I need to acknowledge that and connect with them. But at the same time, you have to like get them out of it. Like what? Like, okay, we can't stay here because we have to, we have to move on and we have to heal. And in order to heal, you have to get out of this sadness. You have to get out of this depression. And so bringing in this part of me that's this like goofy side helps to lighten this very heavy topic of My skin is holding me back. And so I, I love that you say that because that means I'm, I'm at least I'm getting one thing right. And I, and I can like go in more into that and know that it's actually helping people. So thank you for that.

This is perfect, perfectly to our topic of today.

Yeah, Hadlee and I are like right here. We're like, oh yeah, this is where we're going, is that intersection between our emotional well-being and our skin and how they can have a bidirectional relationship with each other.

Yeah, it's so true. I mean, the, the entire process, you can't separate. And I always— I used to tell people all the time when I was in school, and Dr. Kane might remember, I was like, nope, don't do mental health. Nope. Nope, that's not my thing. I'm not good at that. I don't do that. And then I go, I'm like, I only do skin. I'm only— I see acne. I don't do women's health. Nope, I only do skin. I'm like, actually, Dr. Sam,

it's exactly— yeah,

I only do women's health and mental health now because the skin is just the byproduct of me fixing all the hormonal issues that the women are having or addressing the mental health issues that are exacerbating the skin issue. So now I'm like, how funny is that? I eat my words.

Oh, totally. I remember that you used to send me so many people because So Hadlee, Dr. DJ and I both ran rotations at the medical school from which we graduated. And so if derm came in, I'm like, send them to DJ. And then if any mental health came in, she's like, Kane. And so it was really fun. But it turns out that, I don't know, the world had the last laugh, I guess. It's like, actually.

Actually, because that's the thing. And the beauty of that is that referral system that we have. And it was just so— oh, I miss that. I miss Those days of being like in a huge— well, let me preface that. I don't necessarily— I'm glad where I am. I'm very happy to have my own practice. And but the one thing about being in a large medical center when you have like all of the specialties is like someone's down the hall and you can actually pop in and say, hey, I know you have a patient in a few seconds, but can I ask you a quick question? Or better yet, can you see this patient? And that's the beauty of being in a large medical center. And it was so wonderful having her there because I was like, okay, we gotta— you gotta make sure you address this. I'm gonna let you see my colleague, actually. You need to address the fact that you're hearing voices. You need to address the fact that your spouse is causing you so much stress that it is flaring your skin. Because at the end of the day, if your skin is flaring every time you're having an argument, Hmm. you need to get that fixed. Like, I can't do that for you. There's no herb for that. You have to address that part. And so it was good to be able to say, hey, you know, go see your mental health practitioner or let me refer you to someone. And I do miss that. I miss being able to— I can still refer to you though, I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah. I miss having you down the hall.

It's different. Yeah. I was just gonna say it's like totally different.

So, well, I love that. I love that you say that too, because we always talk about how Symptoms are really just pointing us to something that needs to be addressed, right? Like, and so that's where it comes— the mental health and the women's health comes in. It's like, oh, there's something else, there's something underlying this here.

So let's talk about that underlying. So what are the intersections between skin conditions and emotional and mental well-being?

Oh, there's so many, but I like to start with what we call is, well, what is now being called the gut-brain-skin connection, right? So they always talk about the gut connection and the brain connection, and they talk about the skin and the brain, but actually it's gut-brain-skin, and it's all connected. So our gut health there is, is there, and that is where we have our immune cells. That's where we can increase and decrease inflammation depending on the health of our gut. And when we have gut inflammation, we know that that impacts how we think. So many patients come in and they say, I'm dealing with brain fog, I'm dealing with irritability, I'm dealing with, you know, I'm raging. And we know that has to do with hormones. And we know that there's a direct link from hormones to digestive health. Helping your body to be able to balance hormones, to be able— and that's all the hormones, not just because people think about, oh, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone. That's also cortisol, our stress hormone. And so when that is off and our stress goes up and our cortisol goes up, we're going to have skin issues because that cortisol causes inflammation. And that inflammation is directly correlated with the skin health because that cortisol, that inflammatory causes you to have an inflammatory response in your skin the same way that it causes inflammation in your gut. So there's this circle of like never-ending cycle of inflammation that happens in your gut, in your brain, in your skin. And people tend to forget the skin because they're like, everyone's pushing mental health and they're pushing like— and that's so great actually. And then they're pushing, oh yeah, healing starts in the gut. And then you have all these people with acne, eczema, psoriasis that over here, they're just like, hey, what about us? And they're like, put this steroid on it. And you're like, wait, but what about the brain and the skin? Can you just— can you treat it? Can you just do something for it? And it's actually so strange that people don't make that connection, right? So I come in and say, look, there's this gut-brain-skin connection, and we need to heal the gut. We need to address your mental health. And then I'm going to watch the skin flourish and grow from the inside out. And I'm just going to make sure that nothing's like going out of whack, because what happens if someone does something too aggressive with the gut is that the skin will flare. But they, then their skin has a breakthrough as well. And they're like itching and they're like, I don't know, but, but it's really good. Therapy's been really good. I'm like, oh my gosh, what are y'all talking about? What are y'all talking about in there? What are y'all doing? And it's because this is coming up and coming out and it will express itself on the skin. And I need to control that inflammation topically on the skin as well so that they can continue to have those breakthroughs without becoming uncomfortable. So I know I went through a lot with that, but it's just how, like, that's what goes on in my mind. It's like when I see a patient, I'm like, okay, well, what's going on in your gut? Because it's affecting your hormones and your hormones affect your skin. But how's your life? And I always do like a life balance wheel and like have them fill that out. And now I had actually— you didn't do one, Hadley, because I had gone to a different practice and I didn't have that in my intake form. But I brought it back, and I actually have people do a life balance wheel and fill it out every time so I can see how they're doing, because I don't— I monitor their mental health, but I don't treat their mental health. I make sure they're referred to a professional. And so I monitor that using a life balance wheel, because then I can say, oh, financial health's getting better, mental-emotional health, oh, they're getting outside more, oh, quality of relationships are getting better. And if it's not, or if it's regressing, I ask, well, How are you doing with that? Have you seen your therapist recently? Have you seen your psychiatrist recently? What's going on? Like, how can I help you? What do I need to do to support you? Oh, nothing, Dr. DJ. I just, I just need to do it. Okay. Well, you know, I'm going to keep reminding you. Just don't get upset because I'm going to ask you every month. And then they're like, okay. I'm like, just checking. I'm just letting you know it's going to happen. I'm going to ask you, and I'm not going to badger you, but I'm going to say, well, how's that going? Oh, okay, you're not doing anything. Okay, great. I'm gonna just check in on that because we know about the gut-brain-skin connection, and I don't want you messing up my skin. Because if you don't fix this, you're messing up my work. Now you're messing with my money. Like, you gotta get it together because we're a team and you gotta hold up your end of the bargain. I do this work, you do your work, and your work is to follow my treatment summary and get your mental health checked out. So that's, that's my spiel on, on when we get started, then we, then we get into the trenches of it all.

So the gut-brain-skin connection. And so you're looking at a person as a whole, and you're describing how the gut is the root, you know, the gut, as you're saying, it regulates your immune system, it regulates your hormones, it regulates your neurotransmitters. We talk a lot about that here. And so Any imbalances in the gut can cause a domino effect that can affect their skin. And then of course our emotional wellbeing can jump in and change the gut and change the hormones and change the skin. But those things can also change our mental, emotional. So it's like all in this vacuum together.

Yeah. It's all those like cytokines. It's like, it's everything is just, if everything's inflamed, That I always explain it like the house is on fire. I'm like, okay, the house is on fire and we have to put out the fire before we start building up. Like naturopathic medicine, I feel builds the house back up. Like we're like, okay, here we go. We're doing the gut with the L-glutamine. We're doing probiotics. All that stuff builds, but the house is still on fire. So if the house is on fire, how do we how do we put out the fire? How do we decrease the inflammation? Yes, I can give you fish oils. But we have to test and see what's off. Like, is there something missing? Is there some nutrient missing? Is there food sensitivities that you have that are causing more inflammation? We test just to figure out where the fire is being increased by. Like, what is— what's the kerosene or what's the gasoline that's being poured on the fire? And that's what we test for. We find those things out. Because then once we figure out what's wrong and what— where the inflammation is coming from, we can put the fire out. And then we put the fire out, we rebuild the house. That's when you're— when you do a micronutrient panel and figure out what nutrients are missing. That's when you build the gut back up. But you can't do one without the other. And people kind of do this thing where they're just like, oh, they're trying to like rebuild the house, and the fire's still burning. And I'm like, you got to put the fire out. And no one does that. And I, and I feel like that's what kind of makes the practice of naturopathic dermatology unique is that we see that the skin is just reflecting the house being on fire. It's like the smoke signals. It's like the body is like, hey, I'm on fire, put me out. And they're just like, no, you're not. Here's a steroid. Let's just, let's just Sprinkle a little water on the top. Let's just keep painting the outside of this house that's on fire. It's totally fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine. Just be quiet. Just give me some more paint. We're just going to keep painting this house even though it's smoking and on fire. And that's what I feel like happens. And so our, our approach is different. Our way of looking at medicine and the body holistically is different. And so we put out the fire, we figure out what's going on. And that's where I feel like I make the biggest difference using naturopathic medicine with dermatology.

That's so good. I mean, I've had eczema, psoriasis, and acne.

Yes, you did. You had the trifecta

of truth.

You had the trifecta of truth. And you took me— you took my practice to another level because I was like, oh, wait, because some of the things that work for acne actually could exacerbate psoriasis and eczema and vice versa. Some of the things that work for eczema will exacerbate psoriasis. And I was like, this lady walked into my office and she has all 3.

And

I call myself an expert. Let's see. Yeah, right. Let's see if you got the chops. You put me to the test.

Oh, and I love it because, yeah, you know, when I was in college and high school and everything, it was, it was like, here's the steroid. I also think that that impacted like my eyesight because like I had to put it like I had it on my eye, like my psoriasis was on my eyes. And so it was, you know, not a great situation. Um, and I'm so grateful to you that you have such— you get to the root cause. And it's, and it's, it's so cool how you have such a combination of these things. I just, I remember talking about with you Um, obviously, like, you know, we have supplements and stuff, but really talking about, okay, what is, you know, what's actually going on in your life? I remember talking about, like, singing more and doing things that, like, really bring me joy and, you know, and that kind of thing. And so really bringing in the mental health, the skin obviously, and then the gut health as well, and the hormonal health. That was like a massive piece of it as well, especially with the acne. Um, and so, yeah, so I'm just so grateful to you.

Hadlee, I'm curious what was causing your house to be on fire. Did you, as you were working through that, do you have an impression?

Yeah. So I think my hormones have been, were messed up for a while. And actually I remember you, Dr. DJ, saying to me like, wow, you've been able to manage this like through your healthy lifestyle for years, like, you've been able to like totally manage it because I, you know, I didn't have that many flare-ups and stuff. But then I had mold exposure and that made it all come up to the surface. Um, and, you know, I was just like, I'm doing all the things, like, help, you know. Um, and so yeah, that was, that was the fire. Yeah, that was like the,

like,

the, like, top blowing off the house. Yeah.

With a smile on her face the whole time.

Always. Always.

And then I was like, she was like, and you can email me at happyhealthyhadley. And I'm like, okay, now I get it. It's not just a persona, it's a lifestyle. It's everything she is. And she was completely happy no matter what the pain is, no matter what the stress is, no matter what. That's her. That's who she is, right? And so, but at the same time, what happens with the body is that you're this way and your body's like— so not only this, but the skin was letting me know that Hadlee was like, ah. And so it's, it's the— it's me trying. And I have all these analogies that I always tell patients. I'm like, I'm like the translator. Like, your body's telling you something. And I'm just going to ask you a bunch of questions, and I'm going to look at your skin, and I'm going to tell you what the body's telling me, because what you're seeing and what you are projecting to the world is not what the body is actually telling me as the doctor. And the body was like, hey, Doc, um, I don't know if you know this, but Hadlee's like really cool and everything, but I'm, I'm about to— I'm done. I'm done. I need some help. And the body told me, and I was like, I got you, I got you, body. Let's take care of it. Hadley, you be healthy. We're gonna do this over here. And so she kept her, you know, she— because— but that's her mental health, and that's how she copes. That's her coping mechanism. That is how she lives. And her body still feels— your body still feels cortisol being high. Your body can still feel estrogen. being out of whack and progesterone being low. And you can be tired, exhausted. And we rally because we are from the United States of America, and that's what we do. We have these very rough lifestyles where we're just like, go hard or go home, you know, wake up at 6, go to bed at 6, 6 AM to 6 AM. I don't sleep. I don't need sleep. Yeah. I'm an influencer. I'm a doctor. I'm a this. And we live this life, and it's very normal, but it's not. And our bodies are telling us it's too much. And so her body was having too much. She was fine. She was dealing with it and coping and doing what she needed to do so that she can survive in her life. But the body was— it was taking a toll on her body. And so we just get— I always tell you to give your body like rest every kind of every 3 months, just do some restful things. But I do like to stress like Journaling 10 to 15 minutes, just like every day, like before you wake up— like, not before you wake up, because that— like, after you wake up. In your sleep. In your dream, I need you to journal. Yeah, when you wake up, 15 minutes, 15 minutes before bed, very minimal, just to start people out, you know, just start somewhere taking like mental health breaks. And then think about joy and gratitude and all the things that Hadlee already does. But also listening to your body, because I— people don't listen to their body. Like, if the body says stop, take a break, take a nap, do it. We listen to our body when we ask— when it asks for a candy bar, but we never listen to the body. Like, you want some chocolate? Yes, I do. I heard you, body. You'd like some chocolate? Okay, I got some chocolate. Hey, I'm tired. What? You're not tired. You're fine.

Have a coffee.

Have a coffee. I know I drank like 6 cups of coffee in medical school. I remember because I had iron deficiency anemia. I was growing fibroids from the stress during medical school, having all kinds of skin issues, and I would just drink more coffee. I was like, I'm failing as a medical student if I don't drink enough coffee and stay up, right? So I just drank coffee and pushed through. I can do this. And in the— and I was a naturopath at school. I did that in like traditional medical school when I was in DO school for a while, even in naturopathic school, because I was just like, well, I can be healthy and tell my patients to be healthy, but I got to go to medical school. Like, we always make excuses for our, like, like habits that are like not necessarily healthy for the body. So I feel like that was one of the things that like we, we discovered together is like the body is telling us one thing and we have to listen to it even if we feel like we're okay. And I think that's something that people need to learn to pay attention to their body.

So let's take a pause. And as you're listening to this conversation, ask yourself that question. Ask yourself, is my house on fire? And if so, what are the factors that are creating that fire? Or contributing to that fire? And what is that fire telling me needs healing and how? This is a very bottom-up method of healing. So we think of the trauma-informed approaches for healing. We have the top-down and then we have the bottom-up. And top-down is analysis and logic and doing all of the right things. But the bottom-up is what I hear you talking about, which is the body is Speaking, and then by listening to the body, collecting data from the body, we are then able to leverage that information for testing and deeper healing and treatment. And so as you're listening to this, like DJ said, is journaling, meditating, just whatever you can do to hold and create that space right now as you're listening to this to try to get to the root cause. If you're dealing with skin issues, try to get to the root cause. What the heck is lighting your house on fire?

That's good. I like that.

And I want to make this relevant to people too, because some people are like, well, I've had eczema my whole life, but I'm more stressed recently. Let's talk about panic attacks and how panic can cause skin eruptions. And so you were talking about The fight-flight response with adrenaline and cortisol. And then we know that the hormones of adrenaline and cortisol can increase your heart rate. They can make you sweat. They can make your thoughts go faster, but it can also cause skin eruptions. And so as you're listening to this, ask yourself if you've ever noticed any sort of change in your skin when you get stressed and panicked. Do you flush? Does your skin get warm? Does your skin get hot? Or maybe you notice like your fingers get cold and the rest of your body gets hot, right? So what happens to the temperature change that you feel in your skin? So those are changes on your skin that you may not be able to see, but you can feel. Some people, they get hives when they get really anxious and stressed, right? And some people will then get things like eczema or psoriasis as a result of that fight, flight, freeze responses. So just to Kind of put a nice little bow around this topic that we've brought to the table, connecting skin with your health, your emotional health. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And tingling is one of the things that a lot of people feel, and they don't feel itching or burning. Some people feel burning and itching, but sometimes it's just a tingle, especially with eczema, um, and psoriasis when they're stressed. They have this feeling and they're like, no, it's not itchy. It's not— they're like, it's just a tingle. Like, I feel it and I know that I'm going to get a lesion in this one area because I always have a tingling sensation when I argue with my spouse or when I have a big speaking engagement. And some people flare immediately and others just get the tingle, and people need to pay attention to that. So that tingling is something that Feels like people feel that all the time. It's very similar to the prodrome in, um, like herpes. It's like when you get cold sores and herpes and you have the tingling, it's a very similar feeling with some people with eczema and psoriasis.

I was actually going to ask you that question, is if this is something you see specifically like in HSV viral infections, or if it's more— if it could be even if they don't have virus. But I call it nervous system anxiety when the nerves And the nerves that feed the skin you're talking about when the nerves start to react.

Yeah, they get the tingling and flushing a lot of times. But because I only see patients with skin issues, I don't know if it happens all the time in patients without it. I know that it can from medical school, but because everyone I see has skin issues, yes, absolutely. They feel the tingling. Yeah, absolutely. And that, that's one of the things I tell people to notice and pay attention to. And that's when they do their deep breathing. That's when they take a minute I'm like, okay, what is the thing you feel? Some people feel immediately digestion stuff. They're like, okay, right before I get a rash, I feel something in my digestion. And I'm like, okay, we can use that information. So when you feel that, that's when you know it's time for you to take a deep breath, step away. What did I taste? What did I touch? What did I smell? Right? Those are the 3 things I'm like, what, when you get a rash, you got to ask yourself, what do you taste? What do you touch? What do you smell? Mm-hmm. Because something has interacted. And then there's a part of that that is like, okay, well, what am I feeling on the inside? Right? I always say, what do you taste? What do you touch? What do you smell? But when it comes to like the mental health, you have to step back and say, what am I feeling right now? What is happening right now? How am I responding in my head to my environment at this moment? And do I need to change that? But that's why I have to take it a step further and ask those questions like I asked Hadlee and get into your business. I'm like, I got to get into your business. Like, I got to know what your poop is like. I got to know how much water you're drinking. And I need to know all your drama at home. Not because I'm like— Mm-hmm. Not because I'm trying to be like Oprah, Jerry Springer, but it's also because I just really need to know what's going on so that I can help you to navigate it and just even bring attention to it. So, you know, because a lot of people don't even know they need to see a therapist or a counselor or a psychiatrist. Until I talk to them, and they're like, "Oh, I never knew that was connected to my skin," and that actually can be their jump-off point of going to see therapists because they didn't think it was anything mentally, emotionally that they needed to address. So I love the interaction of that because then patients can see they're like, "Oh, this is affecting me," because they don't think it is. And then until I tell them, like, "Oh, have you noticed that every time you get a little bit anxious, like your skin?" Skin flares, they're like, oh, I got to get this fixed. Because when it's your skin, people care more. They just care more about their mental health when it has to do with their skin

sometimes. I know I do. I'm very vain in that way. In fact, I was recently— I got a rash. I posted about this on Instagram because I was like, what the heck? So I got a rash. And it's just like around the edge of my mouth, around the edge of my eye. And so derm means skin, itis means inflammation. So it's dermatitis. Yeah. And then oral means mouth, and then ocular means eye. So I have perioral and periocular dermatitis. So that just describes what you see. And I was like, oh man, this sucks. Where did this come from? And so I just sort of like put some aloe vera on it for a while and it didn't go away. And so I finally went to a dermatologist. in the hopes that maybe they'd have something helpful to say. And she said, oh, well, this is what it is. I knew. And then she said, you need some doxycycline and some isotretinoin compound with some other topical antibiotic. And I was like, but is it infectious? And she said, no. And I said, well, then why do you want to give me— really strong probiotic that could then cause a yeast infection and then a yeast rash. And then like Diflucan isn't very good for your liver. And so then it'll anger my liver. And she's just like, patient refuses antibiotics. And so there's probably lots of things that were going on before that. But the minute that it showed up on my face, I'm like, oh, hell no, we gotta go to the dermatologist. But that wasn't very good. So I was a non-compliant patient and I am not taking the antibiotic. And so I posted about this and it turns out that tons and tons and tons and tons of people really resonate with this experience where they get this rash, their house is on fire. They don't know why, they don't know what it's about. So I feel really lucky that now we have a naturopathic dermatology expert. So Had I been smarter and had come to see you or another naturopathic dermatologist as someone, what would you tell them?

You know me.

Oh, why? Why?

I'm slightly offended.

You're like, what the heck?

I'm like, wait, you had a rash? Okay.

I, I still have a rash. It's, it's, it's getting better.

Good luck with that, Dr. Kane.

I know. You're like,

good luck with your dermatologist.

You've been cut off, you non-compliant patient.

So I can't believe she said, patient refuses antibiotics. Patient refuses antibiotics. Non-compliant patient.

It's like, oh my God, I'm so non-compliant. Like, part of me is like, yeah, I'm, I'm a rebel. But then part of me is like ashamed. I'm like,

oh, I know, I'm a doctor. Doctors are the worst patients. They are.

I didn't tell her that either. I was just like, oh, okay.

Oh, good, good. Okay, good. You didn't tell her you're a doctor? No, definitely. But you would be surprised. I'm telling you, you'd be surprised at what these dermatologists know that they are not doing, because they're just like, this is what we're supposed to do. I just don't want to lose my license. Totally. And then if you found out they were— if you found out they, uh, if they find out you were a doctor, they would go like, well, actually, you could probably try some whatever naturopathic treatments, you know.

Totally. I should have—

those work.

I should have elbow told her. That was that. And I was just showing up.

Off the record, use some naturopathic medicine. I'm sure you have something for this. I feel like with, with any type of dermatitis, right? So they're literally just like, oh, you have inflammation on your face. Like, thanks. Great. So I feel like— I know the house is on fire. Kelly's like, This was my life for years.

I got that.

I think, and I feel like there is room for dermatology to grow. There are, you know, I do want to give a shout out to those integrative dermatologists that are trying. I'm a part of an integrative dermatology symposium that we have every year where MDs, nutritionists, naturopaths come together, and they are trying to bridge the gap. And but there's a lot of things that we just Don't— I won't say don't agree on, but we have different approaches, right? We're looking at the world through 2 different paradigms. And I know that you remember this from Dr. Sinsenegg. It's like we're just looking at the world through 2 different paradigms. And so it's not a like us or them type thing. It's just that we're just in 2 different houses and we're treating like— they're like, oh, let's just do these things. And we're like, gotta put the fire out. You gotta build the house up. And so from looking from your point of view, what I would say to you, the first thing I would go through is, you know, my favorite, you know, I have to ask about your sleep. I have to ask about your— what are you eating? And what— how you— how you pooping? How's your energy? Because I'm looking to see if any of those are off. And if you say everything's okay, I'm going to say, well, what time do you go to bed? What time do you wake up? Do you wake up to use the bathroom? Are you having restful sleep? Do you wake up with energy? Like, I get more in-depth because people think they're okay. One of the things I like to say, just because it's common doesn't mean it's normal, right? Just because it's common for you doesn't mean it's normal. So people say, oh, I sleep well, and they're only sleeping 4 hours, or they're like, oh, I sleep well, but I never wake up refreshed. Well, I sleep well, but I wake up 5 times because I go to use the bathroom or I'm stressed. A lot of people, especially high-power people that are like, you know, girl bosses like you, have a stressful life and they don't think they do because you're handling it right. You're just like, no, this is just a part of my day. This is just what I do. Like, I rule the world daily. This is what I do. Like, this is, this is you, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

And so, so you're looking at— getting in my way. This is getting in your way of being great. Like, yes, I'm being, I'm being great over here, and now I got this, this itis going on, this itis here and this itis there, and they just want to put a steroid on it. So then you have to step back and like, I always say, what did you eat? What did you touch? What'd you smell? When did it happen? I have to get an accurate timeline. And if you want to, we can always, you know, go get together and talk about this. You can do another episode and just let me go through an entire Intake with you, but I have to get a timeline of when it started and what was going on in that time. And then we look at your gut health. Did anything change? You have to ask yourself these questions. Has anything changed in your diet? Because you could eat the same all the time, and then like that one day right before it happened, you had something, and that could have been the thing that, you know, caused the gut issue. Because a lot of people eat things, and people I'm gonna say this as nice as possible. Okay, no, I'm not. People don't wash their hands. People are nasty, and they don't wash their hands. We know because COVID happened. See, and they're cooking your food in these restaurants, and people come back with all kinds of Campylobacter. And like, I'm like, what? How did you get— oh my gosh, where did you eat? And then I find it. I trace— I've traced things back to the one taco In Mexico that one weekend. And I, and I'm like, and you had a taco. And they were like, yeah, but it was at a good— but you had a taco at this restaurant. And then you have a digestive issue. And then the rat. That's what happened. And they're like, oh my gosh, how did you figure that out? I asked the question. You have to ask the questions. You have to get an accurate timeline. And I, and I feel like what happens is it's either digestion, and then the stress flares it, but it usually starts with digestion. And then it's like, how's your liver? Have you been supporting your liver? Did you have one too many drinks in Cancun? Did you— like, that could throw you off. And then you do that and you're like, oh, I haven't been right since. And there's homeopathic remedies for that because people say you haven't been right since. But I, I don't think about the homeopathic remedy. I'm like, you haven't been right since that time. What did you eat?

You're like, what did you eat?

What did you eat? What did you smoke? What did you drink?

Yeah.

What conversations were you having? Was it a happy time or not so happy time? Were you stressed out? What was going on? We have to, we have to get through all of that because somewhere in there was that the match that lit that fire of inflammation. So I'm looking for, literally, they say the needle in a haystack. I'm looking for the match. I'm looking for the match in the fire. What lit the fire that started the inflammation? That now causes you to have the itis here and the itis there, because all this is is letting me know there's inflammation that started somewhere in your body and it's now showing itself on your face. And it might be just because those 2 places could be— you could have just rubbed there, you know, too hard when you wash your face. It could just be those are the spots where you will always have inflammation. Does that make sense? Not always have inflammation, meaning like it's just where your body will exacerbate it. Because I had people have different types of— like, they'll have inflammation from high or low progesterone, and they'll get a rash in one place, and then that will calm down, and they'll have inflammation in their gut, but they get the same rash in the same place. Sometimes those areas are vulnerable, and that has to do with your skin microbiome. Mm-hmm. So that's different. Like, the microbiome of your skin is a whole nother topic that people are exploring even more. So we have to figure out where the match is.

What do you think of probiotics for the skin?

Oh, I think they're wonderful. But I think it's really difficult for people to put probiotics in skincare because probiotics are live, right? So it always— people always ask me to evaluate things that have probiotics in them. And I'm just like, oh, what is it, a lotion? They gotta heat those. How is there a live probiotic in that? And they're just like, oh, did they put it in the capsule after Did they just empty a capsule in it after it was made? Like, how do you, how do you put probiotics in? Like, unless you heat stabilize it, but I know that these companies are not doing that. So the best way for me, or at least this is what I've done with patients when I felt their microbiome was off, is I had them like open up a probiotic capsule into like some clay and then put a little bit of like water in it or even like apple cider vinegar. But mostly just water and clay, and then open up a probiotic capsule and put it on the area.

I've

had people do that and completely clear things up. But most of the time we have to figure out where it's coming because topical is like just topical. It'll help with the microbiome, but not if the inflammation is coming from the inside.

It's like painting the house.

Yeah, it's like painting the house. However, it can help with the skin barrier if the barrier is like broken, if the skin barrier is like If the skin barrier is damaged in any way, it will help with that, because, you know, house paint peels, and you do have to fix it, but it's just not gonna stop the fire, right? It's gonna help, but it'll come back, right? It'll come back. So you do— that's why, when, if you look at my program, and I have people in a, in a protocol, so to speak, I don't do anything topically for their skin unless they ask me. They're like, hey, can I tell you, can I— can you evaluate my products? Because I'm like, it doesn't matter what you put on your face when you're healthy on the inside.

Totally.

I'm not saying like, as long as it's not toxic, right? I don't want you to put toxic things on their face. But you know, you know, like 50 girls, you could probably count at least 10 that you know that put trash on their face and their skin is beautiful, right? Eat McDonald's too. But we're not gonna talk about that. There's— because it's all about like your body's integrity, the body's ability to carry those toxins. In that bucket. And that, you know, and once that bucket is overflowing, once your body's overflowing with toxins, you're going to have skin issues. So the goal is to get rid of all the toxins in the body. You can't get rid of everything, so you've got to keep it at least below the threshold of having a skin problem.

I love that.

Sorry if I get—

that's such a good way of looking at it. Yeah,

let me know if I'm doing too much because I'm like, I could talk about this all day long and I could go as deep or as shallow as we need to go, but I can stay in the pool forever.

Well, you see my eyes in the recording because I take notes during these conversations. Like, Hadley knows, like, I fill sheets of notes and I like type things down. So sometimes there's a pause because I'm like, ooh, that was a good one, I wrote it down.

Oh good, share those notes.

I'm a horrible note taker.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, and so you know that I'm all about habits, like that's like my thing. So are there any lifestyle changes or habits that, that You know, people with skin conditions, and we can go into specific ones too, but like, let's say overall, can adopt to kind of support both their skin health and mental well-being at the same time?

Ooh, Hadlee, you can answer that question. What are you asking me for? You did it. I'm like, didn't I give you a treatment for—

just read your treatment summary.

No, so like, there's so many things. One of the things that I feel is the easiest, because I like, I like to give people simple things that they can do that won't like muck up their health if they're with like a doctor working on some things. Like, I love dry skin brushing. Dry skin brushing is so easy. You do it before you get in the shower. You just, you know, take a dry skin brush. Don't get one of those hard back scrubbing brushes, because those are different, like a softer bristle brush, or you can use the hand mitts. But I like the brush, and you brush towards your heart. And you just— on your limbs and on your legs and torso, you brush towards your heart because you're trying to move the lymphatic fluid. And so that's something that supports detoxification, um, and it helps your skin as well. And it's this ritual, right? Because it's something you do before you get in the shower. And when you start having like habits and rituals, it just helps you to get into almost like a meditative space. Like, this is what I do before I get in the shower. And I'm dry skin. I'm brushing, and this is for my health. I love we talked about journaling. I love journal, and I love gratitude journals. And I always tell people to like write down three things you're grateful for every night. Like wake and meditate on those things because what happens is your skin becomes your world when you're dealing with like chronic skin issues. You don't think about anything else. You have to remember like. People have any— anytime you have a visible skin issue, you will think about it constantly, constantly. Whenever someone walks up to you, whenever you're not alone, you're like, does someone— is someone looking at me? And then when you are alone, you're like searching how to get rid of the skin. Like, I get the most hits on my website at night, at midnight on a Friday, right? Mm-hmm. Because people aren't going out. And they're looking up how to clear their skin, and they're spending their time at home alone. I have patients that cry in the shower every time they look at their face in the mirror. They cry every time their husband and their spouse and their loved ones, significant others, are like, you're beautiful. I don't care. I love you just the way you are. And you're like, I'm hideous. I'm horrible. How can anyone love me? Right? So you're, you're dealing with people who have low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, All because their skin. And the reason why I know this is because once I clear their skin, all of a sudden this person comes out that I've never met before. And they are this like vivacious and loud and live and always on camera, always taking pictures, always talking. And I'm like, who are you? Welcome. Hi, I'm Dr. DJ. Nice to meet you. Like, that's why I call my— like, I have this motto is like, unleash your inner superhero. One, because I'm a nerd and I love superhero movies, but 2, because literally patients release something inside of them that they push down and hid for so long behind chronically inflamed skin. And it breaks my heart. Like, I literally cry with patients because I'm just like, I can't believe that you, this beautiful person in front of me, you're letting your skin hold you back. And we got to get to the root cause so that we can clear the skin. And so a lot of visualization, like visualize yourself with clear skin waking up. What would you— what would your life be like if your skin was clear? And I want you to visualize yourself with clear skin every night, every day, because if you can't see it, then we can't manifest it. Like, you have to see yourself with clear skin. And you have to be grateful for the life that you do have, regardless of how your skin looks. And that's where we start. And then if we need deeper help, we say, okay, do you need therapy? And I go, wait, maybe therapy's not for you. Maybe we got to start with a life coach. I have people that are deathly afraid of going to a therapist. They don't want to go talk therapy. They don't want to see a psychiatrist, a psychologist. They don't want to do anything. And I'm like, well, what do you want to do? Would you have a life coach? Would you, would you talk to like someone that's like a little less intimidating? And what does that look like? for you. And I usually can get someone to see weekly or monthly, like a life coach first, and then we just stair-step them up to the next level. I just hold their hand through the process, right? Because we have to do— we have to put tools in place, and I only have so many, right? I, I stay in my lane, you know. I try not to do anything that I don't know. So I stick with gratitude. I stick with journaling, deep breathing, meditation. Visualizing who you are and who you want to be. And then I give support, support, support, and love. That's all I can do. But everything else is like, let me hold your hand. Do you need me to call somebody for you? Do you need me to give you some numbers? I've definitely given lists of numbers. Have you called them? Can I call someone for you? So that's, that's my approach. Everybody's doing it. I love it. That's how I do it.

Yeah, I love that so much. And I mean, it sounds like happy healthy habits. It's like putting these things in place that you're doing every day rather than like, you know, okay, here's the thing that I need to do like when my skin is in peril. It's like, no, I— this is just something that I do. I like how you mentioned that with the skin brushing. It's like, no, this is just what I do every day before I get in the shower. It's just,

you

know, you, you— your identity shifts. It's like, this is just who I am. I just do this. instead of it being like, I'm gonna do this because I'm like fixing this thing. And then I also like how you mentioned, um, you know, manifesting. Manifesting is so in right now, um, which I love. And, and so I'm wondering, I'm curious about like, uh, do you suggest like trying, having your patients like try to live the kind of life that they would live If they had clear skin, like, even before they get to that place?

Ooh, I've never done that. And this is why not. This is— I, I usually meet people where they are, and I try to not change anything in their life but the things that I'm working on. And then I allow them— because here's what I allow them to, like, change at their own pace. And this is why. If I give them too many things to do, then it could cause anxiety and then make their skin worse.

Yes.

So I'm very mindful of that. I'm very mindful of causing— like, I've had patients look at their own treatment sheet and get anxious. And I'm like, oh, is that too much for you? Because sometimes taking 3 new supplements, you know, taking 3— they've never taken supplements before. And I'll say, okay, I'm only going to have you do fish oil, probiotic, and a digestive enzyme. Until your tests come back. And they'll be like, oh my gosh, that's so much. And then I say, throw in dry skin brushing. They come back and say, I couldn't do the dry skin brushing. It was too much. And I'm like, hey, this is a lifestyle, not a religion. We're good. We are okay. I'm not gonna persecute you. You're not going to hell. It's totally fine. Like, I don't want you to feel that way about my treatment sheets. Yeah. My treatment sheets are just that. There's a group of suggestions that I think will help you in this moment. And I think that what you can do is what you can do. And when I— when you come back to me, tell me what you could do. And if you did it consistently, I would rather you be consistent on one thing on my treatment sheet than do nothing because you're freaked out that you're not going to do it right. And it is causing you anxiety because I have patients that, that happens to a lot, especially eczema patients. Eczema patients are the most anxious patients because they're perfectionists and they're like very fastidious. And it very much so coincides with eczema that they're very like, it's all— I was

waiting for that.

I was waiting for that. It's all—

hit the Ayurveda. Yeah.

Yeah.

And

all

of my eczema patients are like that. Every single one. I haven't met one yet. Somebody need to prove me wrong. I haven't met the chillest, coolest, like, no, I'm good. I just got eczema. No, no, never that. They're the patients that, like, they're the patients that ask me, okay, you told me to take this pill with food. Now, do I take one bite and take the pill? Or do I take 2 bites and take the pill? Or do you want me to take it and then take the— eat the food? And then, like, what do you mean specifically when you say take with food? Those are my eczema patients.

Yeah, that sounds about right. That's, that's definitely me. I definitely have those questions.

I do feel like I remember you asking those questions.

She's like, actually, I'm talking about you, Hadlee.

Yes.

I mean, but that— and then I, and then I let you know that you're not the only one. And that— and it feels good to know that there's other people that deal with something, because when you're dealing with skin issues, chronic skin issues, you feel like you're alone. You look at everyone, everyone has perfect skin. It's like when you buy a new car and you're like, man, everybody got a Cadillac Escalade. No, everybody doesn't. You just notice it because you got a new car. You're like, everybody has clear skin but me. Nobody has eczema. I'm the only one. And then you start self-loathing even more because you're like, look at everyone's perfect skin. Look at everybody's perfect. I— no one has— she eats everything she wants. I've been dairy-free, gluten-free, and everything-free for 5 years, and my skin is Still not clear. That's what I hear from the 20-year-olds. My friends, I'm vegan. I don't eat any meat. I don't eat any gluten. I don't eat anything, and my skin looks horrible. And that person that's my roommate eats trash, and she drinks like a fish, and her skin is perfect. Why is this happening to me? Well, because your house was on fire. And your house has been on fire probably since you first got eczema and you first got acne when you were 12. You're just 20 now, and it's just been on fire. We have to go back, and then I have to go back and ask them about the accident they had when they were 2, because remember, I'm building a timeline. So it's like a lot of work goes into figuring out what the match was, and we start there, and that's how I have the results I have. It's just because we, we sit down and we talk and we learn about each other. So I don't change much. I, because I, I'm doing things on the inside, so I want their actual world to change naturally, because when they have confidence in themselves, they're going to go out. I don't have to tell them to go out. As soon as they start seeing their skin, it's like that. They're just like, my skin's clear. I'm going out with my friends this weekend. I, 'cause they've been waiting to do it. They've been waiting to, and they're just like, I'm ready to start. And they are so ready that they do everything I tell them. And then they see the results and then they graduate from the program. And then I don't see them again. Like, sadly. Well, actually I moved, so we might need to see each other again, but we'll, we'll talk about that later.

We love it.

If we were to take the last like 40 minutes or so and condense them into like 3 actionable steps that our listeners can take right now, so they, you know, it's generalizable because, you know, the one person may have periorbital dermatitis, another person could have psoriasis, another person could have acne. But if we could just make it into 3 steps of what you can do right now To start the process of healing from the perspective of a naturopathic holistic dermatologist? I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot here to take so much brilliant information and fit it in 3 steps.

Pull it down to 3 steps. 3 steps. I like to defer to Hadlee. What would you do? What did I tell you to do, Hadlee? 3 steps. I think there's— okay. So the 3 steps that need to— like, what they can do right now? I think the first thing I would tell people is pay attention to what they eat and their digestion. Like, you got to poop every day. You have to poop. You cannot have clear skin if you do not poop 2 to 3 times a day. That's just it. And it needs to be normal poop. Right? So you have to pay attention, learn what normal poop is, and ask yourself, am I pooping 2, 3 times a day? And to me, that is like the number one thing. And I hate to keep it with kind of this poop thing, but you have to drink water because I've noticed that recently I'm meeting a lot of young people that don't drink water and they don't like water. I've

seen that a lot in my practice too.

I'm like, you can't have— you can't have poop if you don't drink water. And so you have to drink water to poop, and you have to have poop to have clear skin. So it kind of goes hand in hand. So I don't know if you want to put that as 1 or my 1 and 2. But then I think that 3, what they can do right now. Oh, that's so much. This is my last one. This is so important. Oh,

I mean, we could— we could say number 1 is poop. We can say number one is poop, and that's going to be affected by what you eat and what you drink and how much you eat and drink. So I feel like poop is number one, so that means you have 2 more.

Oh, I get 2 more?

I think so, yeah. I'm, I'm going to get—

I feel like I have one. I have one. Okay, oh, please share. Like the biggest thing, sleep. That was the number one thing that gave me all of my skin issues, like, like in high school and college. Like, it was Lack of sleep and quality sleep.

Oh my gosh. I think that that is perfect because sleep is so important. So number 1 is water, and then number 2, we're going to say sleep, right? So I think sleep is so important, and I, I will say that number 3, to have like Wonderful skin. Just because we are talking about mental health, you have to ask yourself, what's going on, like, in my life and how is that affecting me? Like, is that— like, take inventory of, like, your energy and how you feel mentally, emotionally. And how I ask my patients this— and Dr. Kane, you can add to this or tell me I'm doing it wrong— but I always ask my patients, I say, if you can tell me in one word, like your mental emotional state, kind of like we did the 3, like if you could tell me in one word, your mental emotional state in general, what is that? Like, how do you feel like on a day-to-day basis? And some people are like, meh, depressed, sad, like because it, because it puts it in like to context for them. Because I feel like a lot of people, when you ask them, how do you feel? People go, I feel okay. Everything's fine. I mean, I have stress. That's almost stress. And I always ask the stress scale on a scale of zero to ten. Where do you put your stress? And people say, oh, it's like a three. And then I'll talk to them, and then I'm like, huh, for average person, that would be like an eight. And they're like, oh, I guess I'm I'm like, yeah, your scale's a little off. Like, huh, let's let's unpack that. Why why do you feel that all of this that's going on in your life is like a three? 3. And then they go, then they start talking about all the stuff going on and why they like minimize their stress. And that's like, wow. And, and then I connect that to their skin. So when I talk, when, when it's about skin health, and you're really looking at like, what do I need to do? I always say you ask yourself, like, if a rash just came on, ask yourself, what did I taste? What did I touch? What did I smell? But you have to look at your poop and what's affecting that. You have to sleep and you have to check in with yourself and you have to go, you know, how am I feeling? In one word, what would— if I'm sitting in front of Dr. Cain right now and she asks, how are you feeling? And you're being honest to goodness truth with yourself and vulnerable, how would you describe your general state? And then go from there.

I love it. That is the perfect thing to end on today. I'm So grateful to you for coming. Well, I'm so grateful to you for a lot of things in my personal life. And also, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing with all of us, like, your amazing wisdom. And how can people connect with you? Do you want to just— I mean, I know we've talked about it a little bit at the beginning, but, um, you know, now that people have listened all the way to the end, how can we connect with you? How can we work with you? Um, I know you've got a lot going on, so.

I have a lot going on, but the most important thing is to schedule a 15-minute free discovery call. I feel like people don't think it's going to be real, like, or it's going to be a sales call. It's not. I don't need to sell anything to you. I, I just want to help people. Like, I honestly just get on the call and I ask you what's going on, and I tell you my approach and what I would do and where I would start. And I have gone on the phone with people and they're like, I'm like, you know what, you don't need to see these. Just drink some water. You need to poop and drink some water. If that doesn't work, that doesn't work, in a couple of months you can schedule an appointment. I'm not going anywhere. Just, just come and see me. I'm here. Like, I feel like people think because discovery calls sound really like salesy to people, I think. And I just, I really want to hear your story. And like, tell me your acne story is like what I have on my website. Tell me your acne story. Tell me your eczema story. Tell me your skin story. story. And let's like unpack it and see where it started. And I can tell you like, in a very like short amount of time what the match is. And then if you want to work with me to relieve that, you can. If not, if you might need— just need to see a therapist. Yeah. And we can, we can learn that on the, on the 15-minute call. And then we can go there first, because if that's where you need to start, you need to start there and then come see me later. Right? So we, we figure out where you are in the healing process and point you in the right direction. And I would love to talk to you and meet you and tell me that this is where you found me so we can chat and just set up a 15-minute consult.

Perfect. Okay. And so, um, we'll put a link to that in the bio, but you can also find Dr. DJ on Instagram at Dr., which doctor is spelled out, D-O-C-T-O-R, and then DJ Sims, S-I-M-S. So that's where you can find everything.

And 1M.

1M, yes.

1M, not 2. Yes.

Perfect. Well, thank you so, so much for being on.

Thank you.

It's been amazing.

Thank you. Yeah, it's about time.

We'll come back and we'll talk about the dual existence theory that we brought up in the beginning of our convo. It'll be fun.

Yes. So good. Amazing. All right, see you later.

Bye!

Bye everyone, thank you!