Ayurveda Mini Series Part 1: A New Definition of Success (with Happy Healthy Hadlee) | Ep. 59

Hi, this is Dr. Nicole, and I'm so excited to bring to you a really exciting interview. And the last conversation that I had with this beautiful human, we talked about merging the worlds of older medicine and modern medicine in order to find blissful equilibrium and to identify the biggest mistakes people make with their health. And today we are going to be talking about all things success. Oh, hey, by the way, did you know that Hadley and I created a mini course which will help you to create clarity around what success is for you and to teach you how to achieve success with your doshas or your mind-body constitution? This course is called Your Ayurvedic Dosha The Key to Your Success. If you haven't already checked it out, do so now by clicking in the link in the show notes. I am so excited to have Hadlee back today. Hey girl, how are you doing?

Hey, I'm doing so well. I'm so excited to be here chatting with you. It's always a good day when I get to do that.

It's absolute magic every time we get together. I feel like we just need to have a recording device every time we have a conversation because magic happens.

Agreed. Everybody's gonna be so happy.

It makes me so happy. And everyone, if you haven't heard an interview with Hadlee and I before, it's really fun. We get into a ton of really enriching details. She is an expert in Ayurveda and I am an expert in curiosity. And so together it's going to be a really fun series, really fun conversation. And so I would love to introduce Hadlee to you so that you can learn a little bit about her and what she's bringing to the table. And so from her bio, Hadlee is a health and lifestyle change coach who helps people feel better in their bodies, have more energy, cultivate a better relationship with food, and to become less stressed and more joyful in their day-to-day lives. Hadley graduated from the University of Michigan with a BS in biopsychology, cognition, and neuroscience, and she has a master's in public health in health behavior and health education. She also has an online program called Happy Healthy Habits, which combined the concepts of behavioral science, habits for optimal health, and she brings group dynamics in to help her clients clients make lasting influential changes in their lives. And so if that sounds like your jam, I'll be sure to have her information in the show notes as well. So Hadlee, welcome. I'm so happy that we're together.

Oh, thank you so much. I so appreciate it. And I'm so excited for this mini series that we're about to do.

You're going to help us to have a definition of success according to Ayurvedic medicine, which I love. And it blends together a lot of different elements like mind and body and spirit and the ways that our body and our mind and spirit can go out of balance. And I thought that I might start by just kind of zooming us in on success, um, because that can really vary depending on where we are in our life. And success can be something all the way from I'm a CEO of a business in that very traditional sense of the word, and success could be waking up and brushing your teeth in the morning. And so we really want to be able to speak to success on that entire spectrum. And again, it's not an up and down spectrum, it's totally lateral. It's totally lots of areas of lots of colors in the definition. But I wanted to start by just kind of exploring the different schools of thought and how they see success. And So when I did a little bit of research, the Merriam-Webster talks about success as a favorable or desired outcome. And I think that's really interesting. I like that, a favorable or desired outcome. They also go on to say success is the attainment of wealth, favor, or eminence, which is the traditional definition that we hear, right? Yeah. And then we have all these people that are like, oh my gosh, I'm not wealthy or famous. I'm not a YouTube influencer, an Instagram star. So I'm a failure, I'm not successful. And so I think that this conversation could be really interesting. Dictionary.com says that success is the favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors. They go on, the accomplishment of one's goals, the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like, a performance or achievement that is marked by success as by the attainment of honors. So they actually expand on that and they look at how other people look at the successful person. So it brings in external approval. And then there's this—

Interesting.

Whole other definition that I think about that means a lot to me, which we talked about in one of our other conversations, Hadlee and I did, is Hahnemann, who's the German physician in the 1800s, the founder of homeopathy, defines Success in medicine is the state of health where the, the spirit, the life, the vital force animates the body so much that it reigns in supreme sovereignty, maintaining the sensations and activating all parts of the living being in such harmony that it obliges wonderment in the onlookers. So to turn that into 2021 language, which is the year this is being recorded, is you are so healthy and doing all of the things in such a way that people look at that and they're like, oh my gosh, what are you doing? And how do I get my hands on that? That is, that is health according to Dr. Hahnemann. And so—

That is wild because that is so, so similar to the definition of health in Ayurveda. And actually, it's actually not that far-fetched because I know a lot of the wisdom of Ayurveda actually came over and influenced a lot of the beginnings of Western medicine and, you know, especially holistic medicine in like the Western world. And so that makes perfect sense to me, even like the Hippocratic Oath and, you know, do no harm. Actually, like comes from one of the like Ayurveda and the yogic philosophy and stuff. The very first, the very first like what's it called? Of the yamas, yamas and niyamas is like do no harm essentially is what what it translates to. And so so Ayurveda has influenced like basically everything that we know today, which is so cool.

So I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how Ayurveda defines success.

Yes, yes. So Ayurveda, the definition of success in— or the definition of success in Ayurveda, with respect to Ayurveda, is there are 4 aims of life. Essentially, the first aim is dharma, which is purpose, or, you know, the way that our souls kind of want to work in the world. So it doesn't— sometimes people hear the word dharma, they think it's like a career, like your, your career purpose. It can relate to your career, but it doesn't necessarily have to. And it's basically like, why are you here, essentially? And your dharma can change over time as well. But, and then the next one is artha, and that is prosperity or the means to pursue our purpose. So the means to pursue dharma. And that is, that includes health, right? We need health in order to be able to pursue our purpose. It includes financial abundance. Oftentimes we really need that to pursue our purpose. It's like material gain. It's the things that we kind of need in life in order to reach that, that level of being able to do something other than survive, right? And so artha is really important for that baseline. And these 4 definitions are— these 4 aims of life, those— these kind of merge to, to give us the definition of success in Ayurveda, or the definition of essentially like living a, living a fulfilled life. And that's what success kind of looks like in Ayurveda. So those are the first 2. The next one is kama, and that is pleasure or enjoyment. So that can be anything from, you know, really feeling pleasure when you're doing things that you love doing. It can be the enjoyment of a beautiful sunset. It can also be sensual. It can be sexual. All of these things. the Kama Sutras, that's where the word kama in the Kama Sutras comes from. It's pleasure and enjoyment, and it's all of these things. So we need, we need all of these things in order to, to really feel that fulfillment. And then the 4th one, the 4th aim of life is moksha, or this is like liberation or freedom, especially from the material world. So once we've got like all the other ones kind of down, then it kind of opens this this space for us to be able to experience that liberation or that freedom of, you know, not being so bogged down with all of the material things. Right. So but we need, we need all of them. And actually, definitely check out our mini course that we created because we go way, way, way deeper into all of that.

So much information in that mini course. If you guys are watching the video, you'll notice that a lot of times I'm taking notes because there's just so much rich wisdom in the teachings of Ayurveda. And so listen to these interviews again and again, and definitely check out the mini course and be ready to write down notes. And you're not going to get everything the first time. And so definitely bookmark it and save it because it's just so beautifully enriching.

So

I was kind of curious, as you were talking about these 4 aims of human life, um, Ikigai comes to mind, which is—

Yeah.

From Japanese school of thought. And I feel like it kind of speaks about this, but in a different way. And I was kind of wondering if we could just shoot from the hip. This is like completely me going off in left field as I'm thinking about what you're talking about. So ikigai explains the Japanese method of finding your purpose, finding your way in, in life. It's kind of like your dharma. And so they break it into 3 parts. One is what are you passionate about? The second is what are you good at? And the third is what will the world pay you for, or what does the world find valuable? And so I'm thinking about how some of those, some of these kind of ancient traditions are saying very similar things in different language, in different ways. Um, so for example, when we're looking at the 4 aims of life, we have the dharma or the purpose. An ikagai that is your ikagai. It's like what you're on this planet to do. So dharma, and then skills. Like what are you good at? You know, because it's one thing to you know for me, I would love to be a singer-songwriter, but I just simply don't have the skill set to do that. So pursuing that is probably not going to help me feel successful. And so when we look at what we have, I'm thinking about in Ayurveda. Is there something that involves Skills, because I'm thinking artha might be what the world would support, like that favor we get.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and artha is like, we can, we can get, you know, have monetary value come back to us when we are living our dharma. And we can have that be a transaction. We don't necessarily have to. But it's, it's like such an awesome experience to be able to live your dharma and get paid for it, right? It is really nice to be able to do that. Um, and it's sort of like a really cool energy exchange when that does happen. And that's not to say that it's any less valuable when you're living your dharma and that's not necessarily what you're getting paid for. Obviously in our current world, Most of us need to get paid, um, in order to, you know, survive. But it might not be that your dharma necessarily is paying those bills or, you know, paying for your lifestyle. Um, but it is— it totally can be. And so dharma and artha can totally be, um, you know, wrapped up in each other, uh, which is, which is really cool when, when that does happen. And kama can also be wrapped up In, in your dharma and in your artha, like you're enjoying all the things that you're doing in your purpose, you're really getting like a lot of like pleasure out of that, even sensuous enjoyment out of it, right? Like you can be in flow. And that feels like your body feels alive when you're in that flow state and you're, you're living your purpose. So all of these things are definitely related, and they can have that interplay together. Right. Right, and then moksha. Moksha comes when all of those three other things—the dharma, the artha, and the the kamma—all of those things are you know in alignment. That's when moksha can come through, and you can just feel like you're so free and so liberated, and you have that you know just sense of self-actualization essentially, right? If you if you want to put it into into our modern psychology frameworks with Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So yeah, so they all go together, which I find so beautiful. It's kind of like a dance.

I love that. Because if I'm living in my purpose, if I feel successful, if I'm having the prosperity or the means to pursue that purpose, if, you know, I'm having financial abundance or material gain and health, Then I have the space to feel pleasure, and then there's a lot of freedom in that all being together. And then blending that with the practicality of ikigai, and you know saying like, well, are what you try? You can be successful. You can be successful. Do you have the skill set necessary in order to be successful blending these two, or does it need to be something separate? Or do you need to get more training or education or develop your Right.

Totally.

This is really beautiful. And it's quite different from the Merriam-Webster. It's a favorable or desired outcome, right? There's a lot of—

Yeah. Or like wealth.

Wealth. Yes. The definition is your bank balance.

Yeah, that's totally—

so a question came up for me is why has the definition of success Changed from the original beauty of Ayurveda?

That is a really, really good question. The thing that comes to mind first is like, like my— the pessimistic side might be like consumerism, right? Um, you know, the idea that like we always have to, you know, get to the next place so that we can buy more and we can, you know, feel like we are better than other people for owning more or for having more status or things like that. But I'm interested more in the optimistic view of things usually. And so I wonder if the definition of success has changed for individuals You know, like, that's obviously the definition of success for— in, in the dictionary. But I know a lot of people think of success not as wealth. And actually, sometimes we can get so like on the opposite end of things that we think of money as bad and wealth is bad and like status is bad. And I don't think that— that is the case at all. We need that artha, that prosperity, the means of pursuing our purpose and our enjoyment and our freedom. But I think that there are definitely people out there who are like, yeah, that can't be it because it's not, it's not fulfilling. It's not— I don't feel good even after I achieve certain measures of success, right?

Yeah, maybe they have Artha, maybe they have the financial abundance, material gain, and the health, but they don't feel purpose. They feel empty.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. And we go like so deep into like when you have one thing, then, you know, the other ones like can be out of balance and how all of that kind of works. So again, check that out. We won't go that deep into that there because we have a ton of things to cover on this episode. But I think that that is Totally. Like, when we have one of the things, we can absolutely get out of balance with the other ones. And so the— in Ayurveda, it's like, no, no, we need all 4 of these things in order to feel like we are fulfilled, you know, have that feeling of, okay, success, feeling really good in ourselves, feeling integrity with ourselves and our values. Right? That's kind of more what I think of as success, for me at least, um, is being that, like, in integrity with those values and intentions and stuff.

Yeah, because I've had people who come to me— I've worked with different actresses and industry leaders who can feel like they're not enough. They can have imposter syndrome, or they can feel really anxious, just like everybody else And I think that is really truly a manifestation of an imbalance in all of those quadrants that Ayurveda brings to the table. And so I think the mini course explains that in so much more beautiful depth. And so actually what I wanted to ask you, Hadlee, is one of these components is wellness, you know, and Hahnemann talks about that and that your body is in— your mind and your spirit are in such a state of harmony that it obliges wonderment. And so in Ayurveda, what is optimal wellness?

Yeah, so in our last podcast, we talked about like that blissful equilibrium, right? Essentially, Ayurveda's definition of health is— the Sanskrit word is svastha, and it means the state of being in which body, mind, soul, and senses are in blissful equilibrium. Which is very similar to that definition of that, you know, it engenders wonderment. Is that what he says?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah. And so it's like, you know, when other people look at you, like, they're just like, whoa, they just kind of feel your presence and that energy. And not to say that it comes from external sources, because it absolutely doesn't, it comes from that, like, wellspring within. But essentially, there are, there are a few requirements for svastha. Ayurveda kind of breaks it down. So it's, it's not just like a feeling, but rather there are like tangible things. Ayurveda loves, loves tangible, tangible things to point to, which I'm a huge fan of because I can't stay too much in the, in the esoteric. I have to kind of ground it down. So, so the first thing is having an established sense of self. So you know, that's sort of like self-actualization, right? You can also say like a healthy ego. So sometimes we think of our egos as bad, but this is more of like being able to know yourself, have that established sense of self. And the next one is balance of the doshas. And we are going to talk a lot more about the doshas in this miniseries, which I'm so excited about. And then Properly formed datus, or bodily tissues, is the third one. So, you know, organs, skin, all of the things just being properly formed. The next one is efficient elimination. So that can be like elimination in your sweat. It's just elimination of waste in general. So it can be fecal matter, it can be urine, it can be sweat. It can be menstrual blood, it can be earwax, it can be, you know, all of these different ways that we, that we get things out of our bodies. We want those things to be efficient.

Which I have to piggyback on because Lin Lahr, who is defined as one of the fathers of naturopathic medicine, talks about how the number one solution, if you have a patient that comes to you and you don't know what the heck to do, is move the amunctories to make elimination more efficient. And so amunctory is something that pushes toxins out of your body, like blood, bowels, sweat, urine, tears, all of those things, and move the lymph, move everything so that you can flush it out. So it's really— I love pulling out these parallels between Ayurveda and other traditional answers.

Yes. And the more we see these like traditional answers being similar to each other, it's like we can kind of point to that and be like, okay, there's got to be something there. If, you know, if these different traditions have come to the same conclusion, some of which are influenced by each other, but some of which are not at all influenced by each other, and have just come up with the same, the same things, because it's essentially truth, right? So it's so cool. And now obviously, modern science is finally catching up to all of that and proving a lot of, a lot of these things to be true too, which I just find so exciting. So, so the next one is well-functioning bodily processes. So being able to, you know, move and do all of the different things that our body needs to do. So it's not just moving things out, but it's, you know, essentially like doing Doing everything. So then, then the last one is having a blissful mind, soul, and senses. And I love that that is included because it's so different from our American definition of health. And I say American because even the WHO has more of a holistic definition of health, though they don't include include the soul in their definition of health. They do include the mind. So that's, that's great. We're making progress. But blissful mind, soul, and senses is part of Ayurveda and the definition of health in Ayurveda. And so it's like, we got to have all of these things in order to be able to pursue our dharma, in order to be able to experience the deepest kama or pleasure or enjoyment possible, in order to be able to feel that liberation and freedom. This is kind of the baseline. And it's not always like— there are some circumstances where someone who doesn't have this baseline can achieve enlightenment or do different things. But it's a lot easier when you can get this stuff down. It's a lot easier to be able to pursue the other 3 aims. And note also that this is not about looking a certain way. It's not about the absence of disease. It's really about feeling good physically, mentally, emotionally, and even spiritually or soulfully. So it is the ultimate holistic definition.

You know, one thing I want to add is what keeps coming to my mind is the listener who's like, this all sounds fine and dandy, but can you just tell me how to sleep at night. Yeah. Where I feel like our expectations have been so suppressed that it's like Monopoly money. It's like this, the stuff of fairy tales of what we're talking about. It's like something completely unachievable. Because if I go to my PCP and I'm like, help me establish a sense of self Help me balance my 4 pillars. Help me make sure that my bodily tissues are getting healthier. And they'll say, well, you're aging. It's just going to get worse. Um,

oh,

help me efficiently eliminate. Oh, we'll take some Miralax. Help me have well-functioning processes. Well, we'll give you medication so this doesn't happen. Help me feel blissful in my mind. Well, the best I can do is antidepressant. And so As you're listening to this, if this just feels like pie in the sky, I urge you— I'm urging myself— is to change our expectations. Mm-hmm. Is the modern medical system is emphasizing disease management. And it could be because that's what it's designed to do is when we're in a crisis, And when we aren't pursuing health and wellness and we aren't being accountable for our own health and an urgent solution needs to be gained, that's where they sparkle. That's where they shine. But I feel like we almost have handicapped ourselves in the sense that we're no longer allowing, even conceiving that it could be better, that there could be more, that we could have what you're talking about, Hadley, that we could have— wonderment, that we could have blissful equilibrium, and that the modern medical model, the way that it is, isn't designed, and nor should we expect to get that there.

Yeah.

By default, as you're listening to this conversation, you're on the right track. You're taking the first steps toward this, and it may feel big, and it may feel completely overwhelming and impossible, but Ayurveda is wonderful in that it can help gently lead us there because your mind and your body and your spirit desire equilibrium. And by following the tenets of traditional wisdom, by following the guidelines of Ayurveda, it's possible to get there. Just allow yourself to be open to this conversation, to changing your expectations of what your mind, body, and spirit are capable of.

I'm so glad you brought that up. I actually was just yesterday creating a video, a new video for my clients about discovering our deeper desire for, you know, being in— well, specifically in my program. It was— it's a video created for the beginning when people come in. And I was talking about how a lot of times we have this skew of expectations. So we have, for like our long-term desires, like our deepest desires, we don't allow ourselves a lot of times to actually go there. So we think that we play really small when we think of like, okay, in the next year, what do I want to achieve? But then we have way too high of expectations for ourselves in the day, like the day ahead or the next month, right? So it's like if we think like a year ahead or like 5 years ahead or 10 years ahead, we're like, oh, you know, I just want to experience less stress. But like, no, like, what do you actually want to experience? What's behind that? What would that like, you know, enable you to actually be able to experience in your body and your life? And, and so I'm like, dream really, really big there, and then we can take those smaller steps toward actually achieving that. So the disconnect comes when we are like— You're— we're like, well, I'm never going to get to that place, but like in this next month I'm going to start exercising every day when I've never done that before in my life, and I'm like not really exercising at all right now, and I'm gonna start making sure that my house is clean at the end of every day, like, even though I have 3 kids under the age of 7 or whatever it is. Or, you know, and they're like, and I'm going to— and I'm going to cut out sugar completely when that's not like even remotely what they are doing currently. And so they're like, okay, I'm going to be able to do all this stuff in the next month or in the next couple of weeks or whatever. And it's like the disconnect is so is— it's so clear, uh, to me and to them once they actually look at it, right? And they're able to see, oh yeah, that's actually not— I'm thinking way too big here and I'm thinking way too small here. So I'm so glad that you brought that up because it's, it's so important to kind of get our expectations into alignment with what is possible. And what is possible is blissful equilibrium and amazing things. And let's start small and build on each other so that we don't have such high expectations in the short term that we are like, well, I'm never gonna get there because I keep failing at this thing over and over again. Does that make sense?

I really resonate with that. My husband told me that sometimes I get really hard on myself because I am such a big dreamer. I want to change the world. I want to empower people to be balanced and in blissful equilibrium with their mental health. And so I'll set these giant goals and then feel like garbage when I go among the stars, but I don't hit the moon. You know, I'm shooting for the moon. But what I love that you're saying is you're kind of answering the question of, okay, so I'm talking about myself here. This is all about me. So Nicole, what does optimal wellness look like for you? Okay. That's my pie in the sky. That's my moon. But then how do we actually reverse engineer that and make it more bite-sized? It's kind of like, I can't wake up tomorrow and run a marathon, but I could start the process of training for that. And I love that you also bring some really grounding, actionable components to that conversation. You know, so you've talked about the established sense of self, balancing the doshas, making sure that we're focusing on the body tissues elimination. And so it kind of gives you some actionable guidelines to get there as opposed to like, okay, I want to change the world. Well, I'm a failure because the world hasn't changed the way that I think in my timeframe. So I really love the— like you said, the Ayurveda can make it very grounding and actionable.

Mm-hmm. Totally. I love the way you said that too. Like, it didn't change the way that I think it should have changed and in the timeline that I should like. And, and I do the same thing. Like, I, I really do that. I am like, I have all of these big dreams and, you know, I grew up like my parents taught me I could do anything, you know, like all of these things. Um, and, and also how, how much of our ego gets wrapped up in that and is like, it has to go this certain way when we like set goals for things. And like, no, it doesn't. Um, and so So yeah, so I think also bringing in that sense of like, not even just self-compassion, but sort of— I mean, yes, that's part of it. Self-compassion is part of it. And also, and also calling out our ego when things don't go the way that we say that they should go, right?

Yeah.

So yeah, yeah, I think, I think part of it is just allowing that things are happening in, you know, the way that they are, that they are. If, if you believe that they're happening the way they're supposed to be happening, I do believe that. But you don't have to. You can also just believe that they're happening as they are, and that can be equally as comforting. And just like accepting that. So either way, like my husband, that's what he believes. He doesn't necessarily believe it's all happening the way it's supposed to, but it is happening the way it is happening. And so, okay, let's be okay with it. That's his version of spirituality.

And then, and then we have success in every step. So I have the big dream. And so, you know, I work with a lot of anxiety. And so I have somebody who's really depressed, really anxious, they're on a handful of medications. Their big dream is to live a life of freedom from anxiety without all of the medications. And so we don't want to necessarily define success as accomplishing the end, but rather each step. Like today, your goal in this reverse engineering process is to wake up and brush your teeth, and that is success.

Mm-hmm. And,

oh, and I think that really changes the conversation from how we begin definition of success with wealth and honors and, um, eminence. You know, it's because it can create this feeling of failure if I'm not hitting the moon when I'm pie in the sky, but rather breaking it into manageable and sequential pieces and knowing that I'm moving towards all of those pillars, you know, the 4 aims of human life. And because I'm in the process and pursuing it I'm working on my ikigai.

Yeah, totally. So, so let's break it down into— I'm seeing sort of like a how to make this easy to understand. Like, the first piece is that we want to identify the big, huge dream, right? So we want to identify what it is that we really want to experience. Perhaps it is that health, that like blissful equilibrium. Maybe you're already like almost there. You're like feeling really, really good, really healthy in your body or whatever. Most people I've met are not. But maybe you are. And you're like, okay, yeah, I've got that. And I want to experience, you know, more, more kama, more of that pleasure and enjoyment, or I want to experience more liberation and freedom, that moksha. Or maybe I'm like, I really want to pursue this purpose that I have in my soul, or I want to discover what that purpose is, which is most people that I talk to are like, I don't know what my purpose is. I don't know what my dharma is. And that's what they want to figure out, which is beyond the scope of this specific episode. But maybe we'll talk about that in the future. And so, so what Does that look like for you? So that's number one, identify that big, huge desire. And then number 2 is break it down into what are the small steps that you need to take in order to actually achieve that. And, and then the 3rd thing is, can you actually focus on that, on the process while you are in pursuit of that higher goal? So it's like being process-oriented versus results-oriented, which is a kind of a thing in entrepreneurship worlds. So, so those are the 3 things. It's like identify that big thing, break it down into the small things that you can— that you need to do on a daily basis, or the skills that you need to create, or the smaller things that come before you can actually achieve that bigger dream. And then the third thing is, and that this thing is really important, is the actual mindset around it and being able to stay with the process and not get too down on yourself. And that's like, that's like essentially what I do in, in my health coaching program because it's so important. Like, it's like, that's how we actually get to where we want to go. I don't know of any other roadmap. That can get you there unless it's just an accident of getting there, right?

So is this all worth it?

Yes. Uh, yeah, so we, we talked about this. I love this, this question because it's like sometimes it feels hard, right? It's like, okay, or I could just kind of float along and, you know, not really try any of these things. And I don't assign any morality to that. I think great if you want— if that's like what you want to do, um, in your life, that is perfectly fine with me. I'm literally not judging that at all. I think that, that when we do judge that, that is just like an ego response. Um, it's like us trying to make ourselves better than other people or trying to make ourselves special by making other people better than us. Anyway, that's another— we could do an ego episode. That'd be fun.

Yes. Making a note.

But yes, but I also do believe that we get to choose where we put effort. Like, we get to choose our hard, right? So, or our difficult. So it sometimes feels really hard to implement the habits that, like when I'm talking to my clients, the habits that are going to make them feel the way that they want to feel. So it feels hard to actually implement them and automate them, to do this work, to do the more depth work, to kind of like work through the old patterns. And it feels uncomfortable because, you know, things are coming up, but it's actually equally hard, and I would say maybe even harder, to not do the work. Uh, and so what I mean by that is like, how hard is it to be living the life that you're living before you start doing the work? You know, you're like being, being bumped around and reacting to different things, and maybe you feel really, really crappy in your, in your physiology. I totally did. So You know, just just know that I have come through a lot of physical health and and mental and emotional health challenges in order to to get to this place. You know, and so so I think that we get to decide. We get to take aligned effort. So we get to we get to kind of put our effort. into something that feels like we're in integrity with ourselves, with our values, with our bodies. And that is what actually feels good. And you'll notice that when you do those things— I'm hoping that people are resonating with this— like, you, when you think about the things that make you feel really good, it's because you're in alignment with your values or with your body or with your With your goals, with yourself, you know. So I think it's very worth it. It makes the rest of life a lot easier. It makes the rest of life way more fun and way more easeful. And it's like, oh, it— like, you can kind of get into more flow when you're not like ping-ponging around with like all of the external things and, um, and all the ailments and all of the things.

Yeah, the pursuit of success doesn't have to be difficult. I love that you use the word easeful. It can actually make your life more easeful and more successful by just shifting the why and the how that you're going through day by day. And so one of the things I think that's going to help everybody who's listening, myself included, as we're getting in the right headspace for the next steps, is to identify the dosha that we are predominantly in balance— in a state of imbalance in, right? Mm-hmm. And because that is one of the, the legs or one of the 4 pillars that needs to be taken into consideration, we're going to teach a lot more on that. And Hadlee, made an absolutely incredible quiz. And I've looked at lots of different quizzes, but what's really special about the one that she made is that it takes into consideration the elements— the mind, the body, the spirit— and she's taking success and drive into that conversation, into that quiz. And so by simply answering the questions, like thinking about the question and why do you feel the way you feel, and And learning from yourself and the process of taking the quiz, I think, is huge. I took the quiz myself and learned a lot. And so that's really great. The process is great. And then the outcome is you're going to have a better understanding of your way of being out of balance in this time so that you get more out of the next conversations that we have. Because like Hadlee said, we're going to be talking quite a lot about your doshas.

I'm really excited about launching this quiz because it's kind of the quiz that I wish that I had when trying to figure out like my dosha and, you know, the balance or the imbalances that I had and all of that kind of thing. And it really takes into consideration not just how you— not like just like your physiology or— so a lot of times it's like your physiology and your mental health, but this actually takes into consideration how you work best in your dharma, in like the things that you want to do in order to achieve that success. So I'm really excited. I hope you guys like the quiz. I am psyched to, to share it with all of my friends and stuff and have them take it. And because people ask me all the time, what is your favorite quiz? And I'm like, I don't, I don't have a favorite one yet because they're like, there's something missing. And so I tried to add that, that thing missing that I found was missing in the other ones.

It's really, really good. Um, in fact, I, I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was talking with a client, and this person is super high achiever, super, super driven. And in my brain, I'm like, you're pitta, pitta, pitta. She's like fiery and irritable and can't stop, won't stop kind of thing. She's living off venti lattes. And As you— as we were going, and I didn't send it to her because I was, you know, we haven't released it yet. This is like super secret for all y'all who are listening here. But I was reading the quiz and kind of asking her some questions here and there. And what I did learn is that she's primarily in a Pitta state, but she has a secondary of Kapha. Mm-hmm. So she has all of this exhaustion and fatigue underneath of it. And she's afraid that if she stops, that she won't be able to start again. And so she figures an object in motion stays in motion. And so she's predominantly just like frenzied beast mode doing all the things and burning herself into more pitta. But it's in part a reaction to this, this kind of kapha imbalance. And so, you know, Hadlee is designed— Been there. You've been there.

I've literally been there.

You're like raising your hand. You're like, that's me.

Yeah.

And I really love that your quiz is really able to kind of get straight from like kind of the superficial, more obvious into some of these deeper, deeper imbalances. So we'll make sure to include that link for you. So go and take that quiz because some of our, our future content, you're gonna get so much more out of it by knowing where you are. And one thing, Hadley, you always teach that I want to emphasize here is that we don't use our doshas as a new identity card or,

yeah,

um, well, I'm, I'm a kapha, so I'm just lazy. It's— and a lot of people do. It's called bypassing. And so a lot of people will be like, oh, no wonder I'm so tired. I'm kapha, and kaphas like to sleep, and so I'm just gonna sleep. This is an opportunity for you to see what your body is doing and what's out of balance, and then make changes to restore balance and know that our doshas are changeable. And Hadlee is going to teach a lot on that, like seasonality and diet and hormones and all of the things. So just wanted to throw that out there.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, and that's kind of what I love so much about the doshas is, yes, we're born with a specific They call it prakriti, which is like our specific constitution. So we do have that, and if we are out of balance with any of them, that is our vikriti, like where we are currently, where we're currently out of balance. That we can bring back into balance, and we don't have to have the you know the experiences of the doshas that we don't necessarily. necessarily want to be experiencing, we can bring them back into balance. And so I love that we can actually, you know, change our experience of the doshas. Um, whereas, you know, in a lot of archetypal things, it's like, well, you can't really change it, and so you're kind of stuck with it. Not that— I think that's, that's more of our perception of them. I don't think that any archetype is really like saying that, but we like get it in our heads. Somehow that, that, that's the way it is because that's just how we kind of think about things. And so, so this work is to kind of get us out of that mind space and be able to, to achieve success with whatever doshas we have out of balance. We can get them back into balance and, and kind of get us on the, on the path to what we think of as success for ourselves.

And then Hadley, do you mind just explaining? So someone's thinking about if the mini course would be the right fit versus just continuing with this series that you and I are doing right now. What, what is our listener going to get out of the mini course, the mini series that we do?

Yeah, good question. So we go in way deeper into all of the things that we talked about today. We go way deeper into the 4 aims of life and how you can kind of identify what you want from the 4 aims. So we get really, really specific on your values within the 4 aims of life. We have a whole workbook to help you kind of to guide you through that and be able to identify these things for yourself. So whereas like this, this podcast is amazing, I love podcasts, but usually people are like listening to them, you know, on the go, doing different things. This is a chance for you to really like solidify these things for yourself. So it's kind of taking that next step toward what you want success to be for yourself. And then also we dive deep into the doshas, which we're going to talk about the doshas in, in future episodes in this miniseries. But we go way deeper into them and how to actually get them back into balance specifically. within the mini course. We also talk about, you know, how to get them back into balance with behaviors, with lifestyle changes, with, um, the foods that we eat and the way we think about foods. We also get them back into balance with herbs, which Dr. Cain is amazing at. I learned so much doing that. So definitely, definitely, if you're interested in like Actually, you know, we'll have an overview of all these things in the mini-series, and I don't want to, you know, negate how powerful that's going to be. I'm really excited to go into all of that, but the mini-course just really gives you a framework for being able to implement it in your life.

Yeah, it takes it kind of out of the esoteric scaffold building, and it's more like, okay, let's, let's do the work.

Exactly. Yeah, it's like the, in the implementation.

The implement—

whereas this is the information, that's the implementation.

And that's what the change really happens is when we— because a lot of times it's easy to just be a consumer of information and then we walk through the doorway and then it's gone, right?

And yes, yeah,

so I

really like— I used to get so frustrated because I would like watch all of these things, like I— it was kind of before podcasts, but I would like watch videos and I would Uh, you know, try to find things on like social media or whatever. Uh, and it was always like, it was always just, it was information. And I would always be like, okay, but like, what do I actually do? Like, how do I actually implement this into my life? And so that is what the, what the mini course is all about.

So you guys all have some homework. And so number 1 is to check out the quiz. And so the link will be in the notes. And also check out the mini course and see if it might be right for you. It can be easeful, and I think it will be life-changing, and it's fun. You just hang out with Hadlee and I more. And then the other is to, you know, start to think about the big dream reverse engineer, and Hadlee made it really bite-sized for us. And just to recap, if you weren't taking notes or if you missed part of it, is I want you to think about number one, What is the big huge dream? Number 2, let's break that down into smaller steps. You're going to reverse engineer that. And then number 3 is instead of focusing on the end results, focus on the process and start thinking about how you can be mindful on your success in the process. So those are your 3 pieces of homework. And next time is going to be really awesome. Hadlee, can you just say Uh, introduce real quick what kind of gloriousness is coming in the next podcast?

Yeah, so the next, the next podcast we're going to talk about being in integrity with our bodies, minds, values, and also with our community. So we're going to bring in other people into it. Uh, we're going to talk about what that actually means, what are signs that you are in integrity, um, create some goals to, to get into integrity, uh, and some some tips for like how to actually do all of those things. So get really excited. Being in integrity basically just means that you are in alignment, or another way of putting it would be that you are just so, so fulfilled with each of these areas of your life, I guess, is kind of how, how that looks in practice.

Absolutely. I can't wait. And so everybody, this has been Hadlee. Check out her Instagram, also her website. She's tons of great resources. It's www.happyhealthyhadlee.com. Hadlee is spelled H-A-D-L-E-E, and she's on Instagram and she has a link in her bio. And so definitely be sure to stop by and visit her. We have a ton of free stuff that's available for you to support you. And I think doing her group, her membership, um, I think that's been great. And so, you know, be sure to check that out because you are not alone. You don't have to do this all by yourself. We've got your back. And, you know, Hadlee is an especially compassionate, brilliant genius who's worked with all people from all the ends of the spectrum— women, men, people who are in the 9-to-5, people who are still in school— to The, the big dreamer like me. So thank you for being here. So grateful for you.

Yes, thank you so much. Oh, it's always, always such a pleasure.

All right, we'll see you guys next time.