Flunking Kindergarten to Opera to Becoming a Doctor - Who is Dr. Nicole? | Ep. 102

Hello and welcome to the Holistic Inner Balance Podcast. I am Hadlee of Happy Healthy with Hadlee.

And I'm Dr. Nicole.

And we have a super special episode for you today because it was just Dr. Kane's birthday. And so I really wanted to— I had to convince her. But I really wanted to come on here and peel back the curtain on Dr. Kane, who she is, and, you know, just kind of do a get-to-know-you episode with her. Because I know that if you've been listening for a while, you get glimpses, little glimpses into our lives. But I really wanted to, you know, take you a little bit deeper so that we could get to know Dr. Cain even better so that you can, you know, feel even more connected to her. Because, y'all, her life is pretty awesome. Like, it's pretty crazy. Like, she's done some, like, amazing things. So I'm really, really excited for this.

Oh, I'm, I'm here for it. Thank you for being curious and interested. Hopefully we can make this conversation like Spicy and fun and not boring.

It's definitely going to be spicy and fun because you literally have like— you guys, okay, so every time I hang out with Dr. Kane, I literally am like, wait, you did what? That too? Like, that's so insane and so like off the wall. I would have never expected that. So We're going to get into all of that. And also, hopefully this will be helpful for you as well to just sit back, relax, and be entertained. But also, I'm sure there are going to be plenty of little nuggets that you can take away for your own life as well.

Yay, let's do this.

Let's do it. Okay, so let's start from the very beginning. A very good place to start.

I knew you were going to say that.

Oh my gosh, you guys, Dr. Kane was just in Switzerland, which is like one of my favorite places in the entire world, and she was frolicking through the Alps and hopefully singing

that song. I was singing The Sound of Music. I have it on video. I need to send it to

you. You do? Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I have photos of me like frolicking through the hills in Switzerland in my Sound of Music dress. So—

But the sound of my singing was more like the, the Moulin Rouge version of The Hills Are Alive. Do you remember in the beginning, it's like the pitch is shifting? It's like kind of creepy and weird instead of beautiful.

Totally. That's a great movie, by the way. We should watch that sometime.

Yes.

Anyway, let's start at the very beginning. And I want to hear just a little bit about how about like why you decided to go into psychology and naturopathic medicine, and specifically you wanted to specialize in mental health. I want to hear from when you were a kid, what spoke to you from your kid self that kind of led you there?

It begins with bingo. Oh,

all right.

It's not what you thought I was going to say, I'm sure. Well, and I guess as I'm answering this question, I feel like it— there's like a shadow side and there's a light side to the conversation.

Love that. As there always is.

So it's, it's like there's like the sunshine and it's like beaming onto the globe and then the side. So I could like tell you the sunny side of my story and about my motivations and my passions, but it feels almost dishonest to not also share this The shadow side, the nighttime. And, you know, we like hear these interviews with people. I just heard an interview the other day and there it just felt like very much like high vibes. And I like high vibes, but you know that I'm all about all vibes are welcome.

Yeah.

And so I, I feel like I kind of want to put some of that out there, like try to balance it. And my heart space for that isn't to be like, oh, woe is Nicole, but rather like there's like real difficulty and grit that is part of where I am today, but also a lot of privilege and joy and success and wins. And so I hope to be able to tell the story with a little bit of each.

Yeah.

So it begins with bingo. My very first memory is I was 4 and I was in a kindergarten classroom and I was playing bingo, and then suddenly my entire life was turned upside down. And my dad was in the military, so we moved a lot when I was a kid. And so when we think about like Ayurveda, there's This lack of grounded rootedness that happens when you move frequently. And as a little person, there wasn't clarity and understanding as to why my home and my environment was constantly changing. And so there was this instability and this disequilibrium that I think set the stage for a lifelong adventure being a very Vata-ish— constitution when I'm out of balance. And so I have this early memory of bingo, and then I have the second memory, which is sitting in the Chevette, which is this old Chevy that I don't think they make anymore because it was like death in a can.

Oh, no.

You hit a Chevette and it just crumples. And we were moving across the country, and it was really scary and confusing, and we had to drive through the Rockies. And so it was just like an eternity. It felt like we were just driving and there were these like mountains on either side of us. And we grew up in— my parents had come out of poverty, and, uh, the beginning of my life we lived in like— we were on— We lived in a trailer park and we had state aid and state assistance and just like a lot of difficulty and a lot of poverty. And so when we left North Carolina and moved across the country when I was 4, they started me in a new school district when I was 4. And we were living in a hotel that was like kind of like a weird, not nice hotel. And I started in a new school district. And I flunked kindergarten.

No way!

Saying this on a podcast.

Can you flunk kindergarten?

I flunked kindergarten. I don't know, that's the language that I was given. Like, not to be like light, like silly about it, but like I was told I flunked kindergarten. And what, what happened is that I was like emotionally young because I was 4, and oftentimes like when you're 4 you go to preschool. We didn't do that, we just like threw them in. And so I was like emotionally not as mature, and I was like really, I think, anxious because I'm in this like brand new classroom and I got moved in the middle of the school year.

And you definitely did not have that word in any vocabulary. Like, no one was talking about anxiety then. Yeah,

no. And when you come from like— like, I came from a pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of a family. Like a very Midwestern Dutch family. But then my dad's side is like a lot of Native American, and we don't talk about that side of the family.

Wow.

It's like this very strange beginning. So that's how it began. It began with bingo and then flunking kindergarten, and then— and now I'm responsible for people's mental emotional well-being.

So did you— did you have to repeat kindergarten then? Yeah, I mean, that's probably good that you repeated kindergarten and then you were the appropriate age for the grades that you were in, right?

And then I got my driver's license before all my peers because I was like a little bit— I'm a cusper, I'm a September birthday, right? Podcast, we're recording it in September of 2023. Yeah, so then I was like older instead of way younger.

Totally. Yeah, I, um, yeah, my, my brother is, is like a summer birthday, so he's like older than all of his friends. But yeah, were you, were Were you a late bloomer then in other areas of your life? You said that you were kind of young, like, for, like, for kindergarten and stuff. Were you a late bloomer then?

I was emotionally, I feel like, a late bloomer. Mentally and cognitively, I feel like I was ahead of the curve, and I feel like that's an adaptive response.

Interesting.

In that when your environment is changeable, a mechanism for survival can be to become overly aware, overly analytical, which is kind of interesting because the neuroscience talks a lot about how when we're under stress, that, that logical mohawk of awareness, Bessel van der Kolk calls it, which is in reference to the area of the brain, the prefrontal cortex. Mm-hmm. behind your forehead, and then that central part of your brain, that's kind of where a mohawk would be, that, that part of the brain becomes less active. But we do see that some people, as a compensation or a coping strategy, they over-intellectualize. And I think that's what I did, which is funny because I just had a meta experience of talking about the mohawk of self-awareness while talking about how I was cognitively adapting. So it's like very meta.

Um, yeah, you, you were like over-functioning.

I was over-functioning and over-analyzing.

Yeah.

And I grew up in an environment where people are— they would like argue all of the time. And so like my, my dad's an engineer and a computer scientist, and I worked for— I worked at a place called PacMail for Like age 14 through college. And the owner of that place, he was, um, a military veteran who had like an eidetic memory and learned Arabic in like 2 weeks so that he could like translate. Like, he was just a genius. And his main goal in life was just to argue with me. He probably thought I was like an arrogant teenager that needed to be analytically put in her place, but it like taught me. To be like really cognitively fast and sharp and analytical. And I think I used that crutch. And then emotionally, I didn't have counseling. I, my family, they still don't talk about emotions at all. The only acceptable emotion is anger, or my mom like always jokes about how you just stick your head in the sand and everything is hunky-dory. So definitely emotionally delayed. At that time, like, I had to— like, it took a lot of self-work to mature emotionally, but like intellectually, I felt like I was— I did well.

Totally, totally. Yeah, I see that all the time with people. Like, it's— yeah, it's like, oh, okay, well, I can control this, so, you know, I'm gonna— I'm gonna really like become really, really, really, really good at this thing or whatever. And, and that's like a, a way of controlling something in your life when there's not a lot of control that you have. Yes, totally, totally. And also to, quote unquote, keep up with the smart people in your life. Yeah.

Yeah. And it feels like a safety mechanism. I think— so I was born in the '80s. So the '80s, the '90s, the early 2000s, there was this culture where You graduate from high school and then you go to college, you get a degree in whatever's interesting to you, and then you get a job. And so like everybody was being encouraged to go to college. And so in my mind, education equals freedom, that I didn't wanna live, um, I didn't wanna live in Section 8 housing. I didn't wanna live in a trailer park. I didn't want to not know if I'm going to be able to eat. And so for me, if I can do a good job intellectually, that was my ticket to freedom.

Totally, totally. Wow. Okay. And so then, so what came next? When did you decide, like, yeah, you know, obviously you were like, always wanted to go to college. Um, what, what made you decide that you wanted to pursue, like, More of the psychology route? Or did you decide before that that you wanted to pursue more of like, uh, medicine?

Reflecting back, I have a different answer than I had at the time, but reflecting back, I look at that memory sitting in the Chevette when I was 4 years old, and I remember being aware that my little brother wanted to ride with my mom in her vehicle. And that I wanted to ride with her also, but that if nobody wanted to ride with my dad, that he would be sad. And so I remember making the choice to say, I'm a daddy's girl. I wanna ride with dad, even though what I truly desired was to ride with my mom.

Wow.

And so then I'm like having this meta experience as I'm sharing this with you of This Enneagram helper tendency of being hyper-attuned to my caretakers and their needs, this like parentification that can happen, which is, for those who maybe aren't familiar with that term, is where the children can almost take on the role of the parent, where they emotionally manage their parents and their parents' feelings and thoughts and behaviors. It's a definite— fawn sort of strategy that we use when we go through adversity. And so I had this tendency towards being a helper. And when I was in 3rd grade, I would go to the library during recess and read first aid books. And so I'm like little 3rd grader Nicole, I'm like 8 years old, I'm reading first aid books, and then I make a fanny pack. And in my fanny pack is this little first aid kit, and I have a little Band-Aid in there, and I have a little bit of triple antibiotic cream. I don't know what else I put in there, but I would bring my fanny pack out on little hikes with the neighborhood kids. And so being a doctor was, I guess, something I was drawn to. And I feel like part of that is because I started to develop a lot of health issues. I had really bad asthma that started when I was 10. And so then they took me to the doctor, and then the doctor sent me to a pulmonologist who did this spirometry test, and part of the test involved inducing an asthma attack with a chemical. So I'm sitting there, I'm 10 years old, and I have this distinct memory of sitting, and this doctor in a white coat gives me this thing to put on my face that has gas going into it, and I inhale it, and then I start suffocating. I'm having an asthma attack to the medication. And then the doctor's like, oh, interesting. And he's writing in his clipboard, and my parent is just sitting there like, oh, fascinating, she's suffocating. And they're like, yeah, well, it means she has asthma. And then as a doctor and an adult now, I'm like, that's barbaric.

Yeah. Whoa. Do they still do that?

So I looked it up, and that's still something that some doctors do. And I'm just like, that's outrageous. If someone can't breathe, you can just assume that there's something going on with bronchospasm or lungs. Like, you don't need to induce a chemical.

Yeah. And literally cause a traumatic experience.

It was very traumatic. I still think about it. I need to go to EMDR for that. Yeah.

Oh yeah.

So then, then he's like walked over slowly and he's like, oh, I could fix that. And he gave, he switched the chemical to albuterol and albuterol's an inhaler and then I could breathe again. And then I'm like, wow, this doctor's a wizard. Right? So I got a steroid inhaler and an albuterol inhaler and then my congestion, my sinus nasal congestion got worse. And so then I got, uh, Afrin, which like dilates your nose so you can breathe, and then a steroids thing for my nose. And so now I'm on 4 prescriptions and I'm still having horrible symptoms. So then I get put on Allegra D, and then the decongestant is a stimulant. And so then it started making me palpitate and have anxiety.

Oh my gosh.

I'm like on all of these medications. And so I'm like, F this. Like, I am so sick and so miserable. Like, I can't breathe through my nose. I can't breathe through my lungs. Like, my heart is palpitating. I'm anxious. I'm on all of these prescriptions. I don't want to be a doctor. Being a doctor sucks. Yeah, I'm going to sing instead.

Oh my gosh. There you go. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because fun fact, she went to school for singing, for opera singing, right?

Yeah. And I was selected to perform at Madison Square Garden as an acoustic artist.

Yeah, that's the one I was talking about at the beginning of this. Is that—

Oh, really?

Yeah, like when I performed at Madison Square Garden. And the thing is, you guys, I don't even know how this came up, but it was not at all like a dropping— she was just like— it was so casual. And we were all sitting there like,

what?

Wait, what? And I think it was actually— we were kind of having an aside conversation. And then I was like, wait. The whole group needs to hear this.

Yeah, that is fun.

Cool. That is—

I thought I wanted to sing.

How did that happen? How did you get invited to sing there?

I played with this program called Acid Pro, which was like music recording software that I probably pirated. I don't know. I don't know where I got it because I was poor. But, um, and I played— I taught myself how to play guitar and I sang, and I submitted a tape to a contest and got picked.

Oh my gosh, that is so cool. When was this? Was this in college? High school?

Yeah, I don't remember what year. College.

Did you initially go to college to like— you were pre-med and then you were like, screw this, and then you were like, I'm gonna do music instead?

I wanted to study psychobiology. And so there was one really good psychobiology program in the state. I grew up in Iowa, and it was Luther College. And then, um, Luther had Dorian, which is like a camp for musicians. And so I was like, oh, I'll go to Dorian and like look at their psychobio program. And I got a really good music scholarship for vocal.

Mm-hmm.

And so I went, I was interested because of psychobiology. I went for vocal.

Wow.

And so I, but I didn't wanna be a doctor anymore. I thought I wanted to do like maybe like, like get a PhD in psychology or something like that. But, um, I was, I remember I was in a psychology class and I think I remember exactly what it was like abnormal psychology or something like that. And we had to take fertilized chicken eggs and put them under a microscope and watch the heartbeat. And I remember looking through the microscope and watching it slowly dying.

Oh.

And the heartbeat slowing and slowing and slowing as it was like dying. And I got really emotional and I was like crying and upset. And the psychology teacher was like, if this is triggering you, you will never be a doctor. Like, you need to give up on that.

Wow.

And I was like, you're right. So I decided to become a counselor instead. I went to counseling school.

Wow. And then you were like, wait, wait, wait, okay, but then what happened with the music that you were like, okay, never mind, I don't want to do the music anymore, I want to do the— do this?

I was honestly, Hadley, I was like anxious I wasn't going to be able to make a living on music.

Yeah, yeah.

I was like, I didn't have a I didn't have like a trust fund or like family money or anything to fall back on. I left as young as I could. I went to college. I think I went back one summer, and then after that I was like, I'm not going back.

Right.

And so I was like, I have to like come up with something viable. I got a degree in psychology and biology. I studied psychobiology. And nobody tells you nowadays that instead of going to school and studying what's interesting to you and then like hoping you can get a job based on the degree, that you should pick the career that you want and then pick classes that will get you to that career. So we did it in reverse.

Yeah, totally. I know. And all of the like advisors at school too, like they're not helpful with that at all. They're like, no, I just want you to like stay in this, in school for as long as possible.

Yeah, just keep giving us your tuition dollars and don't flunk because it makes us look bad in accreditation.

Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. So I, I gave up on music. Um, I wasn't— I was like kind of lazy too with music. So a lot of people were like really practicing and studying, and I just like to sing. And yeah, I didn't really want to—

That doesn't make you lazy.

Thank you.

It just makes you— that just makes you know what you like and know what you want.

Yeah. I wanted to sing at karaoke and like do my acoustic stuff. I didn't want to like take music theory and memorize Latin operas. I don't know, I wasn't really into that.

Right, totally. We need to do karaoke together sometime.

I can't sing anymore, man. It's like—

You can.

Like a moose. Like a moose in heat.

Oh my gosh, I don't believe it. We'll do karaoke. Karaoke is so low stakes. It'll be great. We can sing a duet. We can sing a female duet. It'll be amazing.

Y'all, Hadley sings like an angel.

Well, I also haven't, like, sang, like, for real in a long time either, so it'll be great. It'll be fine. It's been like 10 years.

We should make a playlist, the best of Hadley and Nicole.

Oh my gosh.

Singing.

So fun. Yeah. If you guys who are listening have any suggestions for, like, Awesome female duets. Send them our way. We're both sopranos, so if that gives you any any information.

Feel like now I'm a bass.

No.

What's my register? I trained as a coloratura, and so like a high soprano.

Yeah, yeah, right.

So I was like doing the like that stuff, like all of that. But now I feel like I'm like that's the moose.

Oh my gosh, I love it. Oh my gosh. Well, we'll have to go sometime. It'll be great. We'll get it. We'll get a recording. We'll make a reel out of it. It'll be great.

And then everyone will cancel.

Oh my gosh.

Cancel Kane. Don't let her sing anymore. You can talk, just don't sing. Let Hadlee sing.

No way. No way. Um, okay, so then, so you decided, you know, that it would be more practical To, to do— to, uh, go to counselor school.

Yep.

Then while you were at— while you were at school for that, when did you decide that you, you were like, oh, maybe I'll just go like for another however many years and, you know, get a like doctoral degree, just like another one, it's fine, whatever?

Just Monopoly money in student debt, like a 15% interest rate.

Yeah.

Um, I, so I was in counseling school in Chicago and talking about like the emotional maturity thing is I had so much frustration with the system. I'm like air quoting this now with the system that it was really difficult for me to comply with the system. And what I mean by that is that we were taught these theories that came from like dead white guys. So like Piaget and his theories and like Beck and Freud and, you know, Adler and like all these different psychologists and their theories about things. And my education was not trauma-informed at all. It was very cognitive behavioral. And so like, this is like 2005 and 2006. And so Francine Shapiro was like kicking ass and taking names and like doing all this EMDR research. And the medical community was like laughing at her forever. And the program that I went into was really not trauma-informed at all. And I was—

So crazy. Like that, that's not that long ago.

Not that long ago. Trauma and trauma is everything.

Yes. Yeah.

Like, look at the teaching that I do now, and it's like all trauma. Like,

it's all trauma.

When in doubt, it's all trauma.

Yeah.

It's the way we adapt to adversity.

Yeah.

And that shows up in symptoms. And so, like, I'm in, I'm in counseling program, and I'm like fighting the invisible man, which I'm sure is like rooted in my own trauma and adversity of feeling powerless and feeling inferior or having a lack of agency and all of this stuff that I went through, and then being put in this program where I'm being told that I have to believe what these dead white guys said and regurgitate that information. And I'm frustrated with it and it isn't aligning and I don't like it. And I remember protesting this theories class that I was in, and so the teacher's like, well, joke's on you, you fail. So I flunked the theories theories class and had to take it again.

Oh my gosh.

And that was dumb because I had to pay for it twice.

So yeah, right. Not

like I lost. I lost in that. Yeah. And then I was working in Lake Forest, a really wealthy suburb of Chicago, in a rehab with adolescents. And the adolescents in particular were addicted to things like cocaine and heroin and like whatever the heck they were getting their hands on. And there's one particular night, you know, I'm like frustrated. I'm helping people. I'm making a difference in the way that I can, but I know that there's more to the conversation beyond just their logic and CBTing their behaviors. And I remember this moment where this teenager, she was like holding a Red Bull or a Monster drink, some sort of caffeinated drink in her hand and like drinking that. It's like 8 o'clock at night. We're in rehab therapy. And she's talking about how her DOC drug of choice was cocaine. And so now we have this girl and she's on cocaine and she's on caffeine, and now she's on prescription sedative medication. And I was like, I can't do this. I'm so agitated and frustrated. And maybe had I the emotional maturity to work through my own difficulties, I could have stayed in that and felt like I could make a difference where I was planted. But instead, I got on Google and I discovered that there was a form of medicine where you can learn all of the science and the physiology and the anatomy and the psychology, and you can actually work on healing those imbalances and using natural strategies to actually help people get better, including diet and habits and lifestyle. So within 3 months, I applied at that medical school, moved to Arizona, and totally changed my trajectory. So that's, that's kind of like that transition piece. It came out of a lot of emotional frustration.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and you, you couldn't have had the emotional maturity to handle it because you weren't taught any of it.

Yes.

Right. And yeah, and I think that's what most, you know, people have been dealing with because we aren't taught, you know, how to, how to process our emotions and to be agile, emotionally agile, like we talked about in a previous podcast episode. Um, and so I'm so glad that you did what you needed to do to get out of a situation where you wouldn't have been able to handle it because you didn't— you just weren't taught it.

Yes.

So, and it brought you to where you are now, which is just absolutely killing it and helping so, so many thousands of people. Like, oh my gosh, I'm so grateful that you, that you took the path that you did.

This podcast gets thousands of downloads an episode. It's just amazing.

It's so— it's like, yeah. And it's— I'm just so grateful that we connected and that we're, you know, that we're doing this together and that you have You have created such an amazing, um, an amazing business, an amazing just like help for people. It's, it's truly astounding. Like, I'm, I'm so proud of you.

Thank you. Yeah,

yeah,

thank you. I'm really honored and grateful for how, how things have transpired and doing my own work Being able to get here by doing my own work. Like, I wish that I could have just like had like a nice lovely childhood and then like, oh, I just want to help people, I'm going to go to school and study how to help people, and then get the degree and be like, how can I help people the best? And then create all this amazing stuff. And that would have been lovely, but I am grateful that I used the adversity to grow and create what I've created, having had the experience of it being really hard and difficult and acknowledging that, like, wow, there's probably a lot of people in my past that'd be like, I can't believe where you are today. Yeah. Because it's been like a lot of growing and like the phoenix, you know, it's like burns to ashes and then renews itself and burns to ashes and renews itself. So I feel like I, I come to the work that I do with my clients and here with you from like a place of humility of like, I haven't got it all figured out, but I am definitely willing to like get in the murk with you and walk with you because I get it and it's hard and painful. And sometimes we say and do and feel things that aren't in complete integrity with where we wanna be in life. And so I love the opportunity to be honest and transparent about that.

Totally. Yeah. And that's something we recently talked about too, is like, you know, not being so terrified of being like canceled for something that you say, or like, you know, not being afraid to change your mind about things and everything. And yeah, because it's, it's a, it's an interesting world out there right now.

Yes.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. But how cool that you have Like, the reason that you've been able to help so many people is because you didn't let that hold you back from sharing and, you know, just putting yourself out there over and over and over and over again. And it's just— yeah, it's, it's so cool. Also, can we just talk about the fact that, like, you've had so many phases of your life? Like, like, I'm just thinking about the pictures that you showed me of, like, you on the stage in Madison Square Garden, and, like, you're like, you've made Major Phoebe Buffay vibes.

Yeah.

I just love it so much. And it's so cool to get a full picture of— I mean, this obviously is not a full picture. This is still just a little snippet of the wholeness of who you are. But yeah, I really appreciate you Being willing to share with everyone a little bit about you and how you came to this place. And, and also for everyone who's listening, like, let this be something that you recognize. Like, you, you know, I've heard this before from different places, but like making your mess your message, like allowing the struggles that you have in your life to be the catalyst. for your purpose and your passion, because all of that stuff led you to where you wanted to, or led you to where you currently are and where you're supposed to be, essentially. And if you had had a, like, you know, just great little childhood, you know, just kind of perfect white picket fence childhood, then you maybe wouldn't have had that hunger. You maybe wouldn't have even wanted to do medicine because you didn't have health issues, or who knows? And so all of the things that you're struggling with right now, everyone who's listening, that is the thing that might take you to your greatest purpose and passion and potential in life.

Yeah. How can you make that mess your message?

Yeah,

I love that.

Yeah,

I wrote that down. I feel like that's— that, like, I feel that. I feel that in the feels. That's beautiful.

Yeah.

And it, it can give a greater sense of meaning and purpose behind suffering, of I can make meaning from this. I don't need some sort of, like, an external factor to say, oh, this is why. You know, we're always looking for that like retroactive, like, oh, aha, that's why I had to go through that so I could learn this. But rather from a sense of personal power of how can I make this mess my message? How can I make this life of mine have meaning that feels meaningful to me?

Totally.

And you have helped me do that.

Oh, you're so sweet.

Sincerely.

I feel like it's— we as humans, like you said, like we make meaning out of things. Like, no matter what, we're just— we're like, well, this means this. And so instead of it, like your challenges, maybe making it mean that you are, you know, unworthy or making it mean that you're not good enough for something or making it mean that you know, everything bad happens to me or making it mean, you know, something that isn't empowering. Why not just like write a new story? Like, even while you're in it, instead of just like you said, like the retroactive, like looking back and being like, oh, that's why this happened so that I could get to this place or whatever. We can start to do that now. We can start like— I just, I use that. I do that in just journaling things out and I'm like, maybe this could mean this. Maybe it could mean that I'm going to go to this place. And like, I write out like different options for what, like, my struggles, my challenges could mean for the future. And then it just opens up more potential and it makes you feel better too. So yeah.

I like the way that you said that. It reminds me of— I heard this actor talk about making Making meaning or using the obstacle. Yeah. And he gave the example of, I'm supposed to enter a room and then deliver my lines. And the people in the room were having an interaction, and then one of the people threw this chair and the chair was blocking the door. So this actor, when they go to open the door to enter the room and share their lines, they can't. The door is obstructed. And so that's like an obstacle, a difficulty, an adversity, a trauma. That's something in our life that's getting in the way of where we were planning on going or wanted to go or needed to go or thought we were going to go. And so then we have the opportunity to use that obstacle. And so the actor was like, if you're acting in a comedy, you can open the door and fall over the chair. Or, and that could be an impromptu moment, or if you're in a drama, You can try to open the door and the chair's in the way, and you can fight with it and show more drama. You can lean into the drama. And so it's, it's an active way of existing in our lives and in our world. And I love that about like how you're saying that, Hadley, because instead of then looking back and trying to create meaning, we're meaning-making in every moment. So a mess happens. What is the meaning I'm going to make out of this? I flunked kindergarten. Well, that gave me an opportunity to grow and then to get my driver's license before my peers.

Right.

I like struggled with the man, and therefore I didn't stay just as a counselor. I went on and got more education. And so it's like, how are you as you're listening to this conversation? I would encourage you to think about how you can make your mess your message. And also, how do you roll with the obstacles or the things that are in your way? What can you do with that? And being active and intentional. And Hadlee's word, I think you use a lot when you're teaching, is in integrity with who you want to be, who you're becoming.

Totally. Yeah. It's like, where are my values? How do I want to be in integrity with that? And Yeah, I think most of us have had an experience where we're like, oh, okay, looking back, that is why that happened so that I could get to this place. Most of us have had that experience, and it is easier to look backward and see that. But when we can actually— and we might even be grateful for it. We might even be like, wow, that had to happen. even though it sucked in the moment like it did. And I'm grateful that it happened because it brought me to this place. Like when we can actually become grateful for the obstacles in the moment. I mean, I think that's like enlightenment, right? I'm not there yet. But, you know, potentially right after or, you know, like we can, we can start to really allow ourselves to, even if it's not feeling grateful for the obstacle in the moment, feeling like, okay, there's something There's something here that this is going to lead me toward that is better than I could ever have imagined. Um, and if we believe that, then it will most likely be true.

Yeah.

So

because then we make those mini decisions towards that truth that we're pursuing, and it takes us out of being a pacifist or a victim into, I'm using this chair that's blocking the doorway Yeah. In a way to create what I want within my control. And I love that.

I love that. I love that example of the acting. Um, it's like improv. Improv really takes you out of your comfort zone. I mean, I like— I am an— like, I was an actor for, you know, however many years when I was younger. I just started a new acting class for the first time in 10 years, which So excited about. Cool. But improv, I still— I don't like improv because it is so raw and vulnerable. And you have no idea what's going to happen next. But you have to surrender to it. And so it's like the ultimate lesson in surrendering to what's going to happen. I don't know, but I'm going to have to roll with it. And I'm going to have to go with whatever obstacle is coming up. So that's a great example. I love that. Do you want to answer some rapid-fire questions before we sign off?

Yeah, let's rapid-fire and wrap it up.

OK. All right, let's see. How would you describe yourself in one word?

Quirky.

I love that. OK. Um, what Enneagram type are you?

3 wing 2.

Yep. That's— yep, same.

Yeah, you and I are like 2 peas in a pod.

Yep. Um, what's your biggest pet peeve?

Um, people who chew loudly with their mouth open.

You're just like my sister. Oh my gosh. She hates that.

Close your mouth. I have a video I took of Paul eating chicken wings, and it's the loudest thing you've ever heard. And I was so disgusted. I was like, somebody else needs to witness this monstrosity.

Oh my gosh. And he was

like having the time of his life, just chomping away and smacking his lips, eating these chicken wings. So I have a recording of it.

Oh my gosh, I love that so much. That would totally be Todd.

Gross, Todd.

I love it. Okay, what is the— if you have to eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Refried beans with cheese.

Really? Oh, that's so surprising. Oh my gosh.

I love refried beans.

A Midwest girl at heart. That is awesome. Okay, what is your most embarrassing memory from your childhood?

Embarrassing memory from my childhood on a podcast?

We can skip that one if you want. I would have no idea what to answer that.

I mean, I'm trying to think of like embarrassing. Like, I've probably like thrown up in like weird places. I sat on a fire ant hill as a kid. I got like, I don't know. I feel like I wanna give a really good answer to that. So if I could think of like a really good answer, then we'll put it in the show notes because— Oh,

I love it. Yes.

Yeah, I— all I have that's coming to mind are like lame answers.

Yeah, right, right. I know, I'm trying to think of— I feel like, I feel like I, I have one that—

You do?

Yeah, like, but it's sort of— it involves my sister, so I won't, I won't share it. I'll ask her if I can share it, and then maybe I'll share it on the next one.

When we do the Hadlee episode. Yeah, right, right. Yeah.

I love it. Okay, what's one thing that makes you smile?

Um, Shiva, for sure. I was just abroad and I missed my dog so much. Like, I'm so in love with this dog. And so when I see her, I use this like little baby voice and I'm just like, I'm just a baby, baby. And so I like grab her and I talk in my little dog voice and Makes me so happy.

So cute. Oh my gosh, she's the best. She's my favorite dog for sure.

She's so fluffy.

I love her so much. Oh man. Okay, what's your favorite color and what do you think that that says about you?

My favorite color is hot pink, like the jumpsuit that you were wearing in your Instagram post.

Barbie vibes.

And it's like Barbie vibes. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, yes.

Which I think is such a, a victory for me to be able to say that because growing up, back to the, the Chevette, like I grew up as a tomboy because I wanted my dad to love me. Wow. And so I wore like tomboy clothes. I wouldn't let my mom brush or do my hair, and I grew it like really long. I just kept it back and I liked blue because Dad liked blue. And like, even my bridesmaid dresses were blue. They were cobalt blue, which is like the best color blue ever. But I don't think I embraced my love for pink until I did like a lot of therapy and fully individuated. And like, really objectively, pink is the best color.

I mean, I don't disagree. I feel like I, I so resonate with that. I— blue has always been like my favorite color is blue. And also Like, bringing in— I mean, I feel like even just this year, I've felt empowered by the Barbie movie. I mean, like, I felt super empowered by Legally Blonde when I was growing up because I was like, wait, you can just be like that? Because I wanted to be taken seriously, you know? Like, I was very— I wanted to, you know, be smart. And I wanted to, like, not have people be like, oh my gosh, she's just like, whatever. And so that was super, a super empowering movie when I grew up. I was like, you can be who you are even if you're like into, you know, the super girly pink, whatever, and also be taken seriously or, or prove yourself or whatever. And so, but I feel like even in the past year, like I've been more into pink and clothes and things where I was, where I used to be like, you weren't supposed to, like that was like materialistic or vain or whatever. And I think people are realizing now that it's like, actually, you can just be who you are. And if you like that stuff, then you like that stuff and it's cool.

You are so Elle Woods. You are Reese Witherspoon Elle Woods all the way.

Oh my gosh, I love the musical. For those of you who don't know, there is a musical, Legally Blonde the Musical, and I listen to it all the time. It's great.

That's a good Hadlee hack.

Yes, highly recommend. I think you can watch it on YouTube, actually, the whole musical. So that's what I'm doing tonight, y'all. It's great. It's so great. Okay, and then, um, let's see, what are you not very good at?

Good at singing?

Good at everything. Oh my gosh, that's not even true. I've heard you sing a little bit, and it's It's quite good.

I'm not good at cooking. One time I tried to make frozen fish sticks, and I, I messed up frozen fish sticks. Like, I gave them to Paul, and he was eating them, and they were still raw and frozen in the middle.

Oh no. Oh my gosh.

Don't ever let me cook for you, anybody. Don't.

Yeah, I guess when we've come over, Paul is the— Paul cooks. Definitely the cook.

Yeah.

I mean, to be fair, like, I am a health coach and Todd is a way better cook than me. Like, oh, for sure.

Todd. God bless Todd and Paul. They keep us fed.

Thank God for that. Oh my gosh. Okay, so good. Let's do one last question. Ooh, this is a good one. For those of you who don't know, I'm like reading these just like kind of fun questions. What star sign are you?

I don't know what that means.

Like astrology, like horoscope. Oh, my horoscope. Yeah, yeah.

I'm a Virgo.

Virgo, yes.

Which I resonate with more as I get older in terms of apparently Virgos are a little bit like perfectionists. And they like things the way they like them and like a little bit more rigid. And I kind of, I kind of resonate. I feel like I wasn't like that as much when I was younger, but it's like—

Because you were fawning. You weren't allowed to.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

You just— you're 100% right. Maybe we should do a whole episode on fawning.

I think we should. We definitely should. I mean, just like people pleasing in general. Like, I think that would be a really good one. Yeah. Okay, cool.

Do we have any people pleasers here? What do you all think?

Oh yeah. Let us know. Because, I mean, most people I know have at least some tendency. I love it. Okay, so you're a Virgo. Virgos, I don't know. I mean, I don't know a ton about astrology, so I don't know a ton about Virgos, but, but I love that you're allowing yourself to become more of who you are and allowing yourself to be particular and want the things that you want. I love that for you.

Thanks, friend.

Yeah, amazing. That's a great one to end with. Thank you so much. This was so fun. I love this,

and I am so happy to be turning 29. And so this is

gonna

be a really great year.

For those of you who do not know how old Dr. Cain is, you're gonna have to go back and listen to the last year's birthday one because I think we tell people. Oh,

I do. That's true. Uh-oh.

So just a little incentive for you to go listen to that one too.

I'm a lot older than you, but—

But

you

don't even look like it. You literally look like you're my age. So—

Thanks, babe. This is so fun. Thanks for listening, everybody. It's— I can't believe that we've had 50 minutes of all about me. I'm gonna receive that. Thank you. Yes, I am interesting.

You are fascinating. You— I mean, we're gonna have people writing in being like, tell us more, I want to know more.

I want to know more about Hadlee and all these musicals and improv.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, just—

I'll just come on and do a performance.

Yes, yes please. All right, that's gonna happen.

Oh my gosh. Amazing.

So when you're ready. So thank you, everyone. Thank you, Hadley. This has been really fun.

Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, everyone. Hopefully you got, you got some good stuff out of this. I feel like we brought, we brought some, some good lessons in here too, which is fun. So

totally.

All right, we will talk to you next time. So long. Stay well. Auf Wiedersehen. Adieu.