How to Become Your Own Herbalist with Rachelle Robinett | Ep. 148

Hello. Welcome back to the Holistic Inner Balance Podcast. I am Hadlee.

And I'm Dr. Nicole.

And we are here with an awesome guest today. We just had so much fun talking all things herbalism and nature and how to use plants as medicine. And no, we don't just mean some psychedelic medicine, but really utilizing herbs and plants and also behavior change as medicine. So, so good. She's amazing. She combines traditional medicine and current health insights with an understanding of individual behavioral modif— modification, and she's provided accessible plant-based healing to countless people. She's the author of Naturally: The Herbalist's Guide to Health and Transformation, and you definitely want to go get her book.

I wore my— Hadlee, did you see I wore my flower necklace today in honor of this podcast?

So good.

Yeah. Herbalism is so dear to my heart, and I'm really excited to have had an expert on this podcast. And so I can't wait to dive in. Are you ready?

Let's do it.

All of these wonderful things that you incorporated in your book and the work that you do,

Yeah, absolutely. So I've been fascinated by nature and the effects of everything that we take in through our senses my whole life, from the time I was a little kid. I grew up on a farm in the Pacific Northwest. My parents worked in medicine. One was a, you know, Western medicine practitioner, and that my dad, and my mom was a functional health practitioner, and So I was exposed really early to concepts of health and nature and food as medicine and supplements and surgery and all these different things. And while it was fascinating, it wasn't something that I originally intended to make my career. I was like, this is just kind of part of who I am. This is what I do, you know, in my time off. This is like what I travel for and explore. And from the time I was young, I was reading, you know, everything I could get my hands on about healing traditions. So Ayurveda, traditional Chinese medicine, spirituality, world religions, the science of nature, the energetics of everything. Just fascinated by all of that. But, you know, I moved to New York to work in fashion, like the exact opposite of the natural roots that I came from and eventually ended up back in. And, you know, on the side, just continued to study, and I would take classes, I would do certifications, I would do all these different things, and it was all just for me. But eventually, you know, I realized that this was actually who I truly am. And this is, you know, this is how I answer when people say, you know, or when people ask, when did you become an herbalist? When did you decide to become an herbalist? And it's like, I sort of always was, like a lot of us have been or are in some way already. But there is this moment of recognition when, you know, I was doing all these different studies and then I, I met, I met herbalism again and I saw it differently. I realized herbalism encompasses nutrition and dietetics. It encompasses fitness, mental health, community, um, naturalism, you know, all, all of the things that we need to be healthy and happy and vital. Yeah. And when I realized that it was that holistic, plus, of course, plants as medicine, I was like, I'm marrying this. This is, this is it. This is the worldview. This is the perspective. Like, this system has it figured out. And of course, it's ancient and it's global and it's like something we all have in our lineages. So at that point, I doubled down on my herbalism studies and began practicing and teaching and, you know, launched my companies and The rest is history. But so in a way, it's always been part of me, but it came out at a certain point in my life.

I think it's fascinating that you had the more functional side and then the Western side. So you got to kind of walk the line between the two. I think that's really neat. And then I love the phrase that you just used, plants as medicine. I think people really want that. And I see a lot of that happening with the use of more plant medicines like psychedelics and different strategies like that. And I think about that. People ask me, well, what do you think of plant medicine? And I'm like, well, I think when you ask me that, you mean psychedelics.

Mm-hmm.

And there are so many other incredible plants out there that I hope are gonna finally have their day in the sun. Because people are starting to see plants as a legitimate therapeutic. As you said, they've been around forever, but they've kind of been in the shadow of Western medicine, kind of in the shadow of pharmacology. It's like, oh, well, it's natural, you could do it on the side. But what I love about your work is you're showcasing these plants as legitimate therapeutics that can actually help us in that collaborative process of healing.

Yeah, that's beautifully put. And it's, it's all true. I think, you know, there are multiple sort of movements right now that are really supporting the growth of awareness in herbalism. And not everyone realizes that, like, the use of psychedelics is herbalism. The use of food as medicine is herbalism. The adaptogens in the sparkling water at the supermarket now, like, that's herbalism. Um, so the, the awareness is growing and, and eventually, hopefully, I, I, you know, hopefully we'll see some more comfort with the word herbalism too, because I think it still has a connotation of being crunchy or, um, you know, unscientific or, um, outdated or something like that, which is partly why adaptogens has become so popular. It sounds like something new and something sexy, and it doesn't sound like herbs. It's adaptogens, but actually it's— You know, adaptogens are herbs. And, you know, in terms of, yeah, in terms of plants as medicine, I think, you know, I love that herbalism sees plants as medicine and of course mushrooms and all the other ingredients we use, but also every aspect of our life as potentially medicinal, right? Mm-hmm. You know, everything that we're doing, everything that we're thinking, every, you know, time we're moving or not, all the, all the sort of decisions that we, we make throughout the day, those are all opportunities for, um, healing or growth or, uh, whatever it is that we're, we're seeking. And, and that really is the view that, that herbalists take. So.

I love that so much. My, my background is in behavior change science, and so you're speaking my language.

Such a big part of it too, right? Because a lot of times We know what we need to do, but not how to do it.

Yes, exactly. That's what I always say. People are like, so what do you do? I'm like, yeah, you know how you know all the things that you should be doing, but you're not doing it? I help with that.

Exactly. Yeah.

So

I'm curious about your approach to herbalism. I've learned when I was in medical school, we studied herbalism. We called it botanical medicine because I think that sounds more like Less crunchy, more scientific.

Scientific.

Yeah. And so they started us with that where I was having to memorize like the active constituents and then the biochemical pathways that these constituents used. And so it was a very kind of medically science didactic type of approach. And then post-graduation during residency and with mentorship later, I really fell in love with the plants in a different way. And looking at them as, um, like an eclectic, more spiritual, energetic agent. And so I'm curious, like, tell me about your relationships with, with plants and how you use them and teach about them.

Yeah, that's a great question because there are so many different styles and approaches and perspectives, you know, when it comes to practicing herbalism. The nice thing about that is that anyone can find the teacher or the plants you know, that they resonate with. So if you're interested in the energetics and you're called to some of the subtler aspects of— maybe subtler depending on who you are, you know, using more of an intuitive approach, something like that— maybe, you know, flower essences are the right kind of medicine for you, or a teacher who's teaching from the energetic perspective. I really do like the science. I, for a few reasons, that's how I really, that's something that I've always used to understand like what's happening in the brain, what's happening in the body, you know? So I mentioned like being very interested in what we take in through our senses and how that affects our state, essentially our experience of reality. And so I like to kind of trace those pathways or those chemicals or those, you know, receptor sites and kind of find like, where is the mechanism of action where this thing is occurring that's making us feel a certain way? And if— If a medicine, a lot of times it's, you know, I'll look and see if a medicine is working in this way, what kind of plants also work in this place or in this way. And you can, you know, create remedies that way or find solutions for imbalances in the body that way. So I got into it that way. And I also studied the most with a specific teacher, a couple of teachers actually, who are very scientifically based and work with the medical community a lot. That's my approach. And I also find that for skeptics or people who maybe, you know, are completely unfamiliar with herbalism, don't know anything about it, the science can be very compelling to, you know, encourage them to, to trust it a little bit more or to assuage some fears because there are also a lot of fears about the sort of safety of herbalism, which are— you know, understandable, but generally overblown. So yeah, I use the science to convince some skeptics and also because I truly love that aspect of it. And that's not to say that I don't have, you know, my own personal energetic intuitive relationships with plants by any means, but I don't work with that in my practice, or I didn't work with that in my practice as much. as the more scientific and kind of physically functional approach.

Yeah. Do you want to tell us a little bit about some of those fears? And just so our audience who might have some of those fears, just so we can kind of speak to that a little bit.

Yeah, definitely. So, you know, I think a lot of, a lot of times there's fear about, you know, herbalism interacting with medication, of course. And that's a natural and appropriate fear to have. Um, it's, it's pretty rare for, for plants and medication to negatively interact. What generally happens is, you know, herbs might be causing the liver to function, function, um, better, and then we're metabolizing the drugs in a different way. And so then the, you know, drugs are, are less effective. That's the kind of interaction that you see most often. That said, anyone who's using prescription medication or birth control and wants to use herbs should definitely run that by their health practitioner, healthcare practitioner. That's a, you know, always a great idea. Herbalists will also know about any herb-drug interactions. So if you're working with an herbalist, that's a safe, um, you know, that's a conversation to have to ensure you're safely consuming. Otherwise, you know, common question that I get is, number one, are they safe? Like, can I just start using herbs? Can I, can I take these, you know, pills or drink these teas? And of course, you You know, there are exceptions to every, every rule, but generally, yes. You know, these are, these are eating your vegetables. These are, you know, using your spices in the kitchen. Um, herbs are the same as our food. They're the same as our spices. They're just, you know, in different forms or formats or potencies. And when we're buying from, you know, trusted brands, which I can talk more about if, if you'd like, Then herbalists are creating these formulas to be safe, to be effective, you know, to be something that you can take every day. If you take a multivitamin, you can take a multivitamin that's made from herbs. If you're taking, you know, something for sleep, you can take something for sleep that's made from herbs. It can, it can swap in for all these supplements, you know, and, and we find that, or I find that, you know, there's generally not a fear of like buying a multivitamin. You know, and take that. Yeah. Or buying a, you know, vitamin C or whatever it is. Well, the vitamin C came from a plant, you know, so we could, we could eat or take the plant in a capsule or tincture form. So a lot of times these things that we're already taking or using are derived from plants already. Um, the other fear that's common is, uh, about mixing herbs. Are they safe to combine? You know, And historically, globally, traditionally, for, you know, forever, herbs were almost always used in combinations, in formulas, not as singles. Singles are a generally Western, generally modern approach. So generally herbs are better when they're combined. because they improve the efficacy of each other. And a common example of that that a lot of people are familiar with is turmeric and black pepper.

I thought that might be what you were

gonna say. Yeah. And there are so many examples of that in herbalism. That's another reason to buy good quality products, is herbalists know, oh, if I put licorice in this formula, or if I put prickly ash in this formula, you know, you will absorb the other herbs better, or the whole thing will work better to you know, calm down the, the nervous system or whatever it's, you know, designed to do. So generally mixing herbs is a great idea. And the worst kind of interactions you get there are like if you take a sedative and a stimulant at the same time, maybe you have calm energy, you know.

I love this. So actually let's get into some of the different categories or actions of herbs because you just mentioned Uh, trophorestoratives, sedatives, stimulants. And so can we learn a little bit about the different actions, the different kinds of herbs there are?

Yeah, definitely. So that's such an important point, and that's why Naturally is structured around the categories of herbs because, you know, if, if someone hasn't practiced herbalism before, is just entering into working with it, It sort of appears to be, you know, thousands of herbs. Which one, which ones do we need? How do we ever choose? And categories of herbs, you know, break that down in a way that's much more accessible. So we categorize herbs based on their action, and that action is, you know, the action they're taking on our bodies. So for example, herbs that are beneficial for the nervous system are called nervines. Herbs that help us become more resilient to stress are called adaptogens. Herbs that improve memory, focus, and cognitive function are called nootropics. And in each of those categories, I can name a few more, but in each of those categories, we have a smaller group of herbs. And now all of a sudden, you know, if I'm looking for a nervous system remedy, I'm not looking at 1,000 herbs. I'm looking at like a dozen or maybe 2 dozen. And all of those, I can kind of find a formula that, you know, contains a few of them, or maybe I know I like lavender, so I can work with that one and a couple others. So it really reduces the sort of the, the number of options when we're looking for remedies. So in terms of categories, we have nervines, adaptogens, nootropics. Sedatives are pretty obvious. You know, they help us calm down. They help us sleep. And a lot of times we'll use sedatives also for treating panic attacks or any kind of, you know, agitation on an acute basis. Um, bitters. I love bitters so much. Me too.

Yes. They're my favorite.

I wish bitters were as popular as adaptogens.

Yes. Oh,

I'm rooting for that.

What are your 2 favorite bitters?

I mean, I think ginseng is so classic. Like, I love ginseng. And then, I mean, tough choice. Maybe like a citrus peel. You know, we have chen pi or like dried tangerine peel, some kind of citrus peel. It can be orange or grapefruit or something like that because that's so palatable. Yeah. Bitter greens work as well too, you know, like arugula or any kind of food that's bitter.

I love mixing gentian with Scutellaria and just doing a 50/50 blend in a tincture.

Ah, beautiful. That's great.

Yeah, it works so good. And it's lovely because it's not just taking the place of a PPI or Tums that people are taking for stomach upset. It can actually retrain the body how to make its own digestive enzymes and its own acids. not only in the moment but in the long term, it actually improves the health of the body, which— that's amazing, right?

Yes, I love that. That— and I, I love that you know herbs. I— you mentioned trophorestoratives earlier, and I was like, ah, you're— that's a good— like, that's a deep cut. Um, so that point that you made about using the bitters and how it trains the body to produce its own, like That's herbalism. Like, that's what it helps our bodies do. And, and the, you know, one of the guiding principles of the whole practice is, you know, we use herbs and we can use them as medicine or food, but if we're using them as medicine, it's to get the body back into balance. And then you can use other herbs if you want, or you can stop using those. Like, it's not meant to be something that we have to use forever if we reach homeostasis or balance again. Mm-hmm. But, you know, for however long that lasts, that's the objective. You know, it's always— I know you know this, but it's always, you know, kind of pulling the web of our systems back into this beautiful symmetry and then backing off, you know, and helping to maintain it or whatever that— whatever is required. So, yeah, bitter herbs and— There's digestive issues are just so, so much of a, of a, well, an issue right now.

And

it's fascinating too, you know, the gut-brain and the gut-skin, you know, axes and, and how, how much can be affected in the body when we improve our gut health. I wish, I wish bitters for the world.

I love, yeah, I love bitters. My favorite is dandelion. I literally will get dandelion leaves and put them in my food. They're very bitter. And so I only do a little bit.

I've seen you do that. I remember being at your house and you were eating just garden dandelion. And I was like, what the fuck are those

dandelions?

I love it. So great. And isn't it such a— I think the early stages of herbalism, when we realize that we're surrounded by these plants, We're surrounded by medicine.

Yeah,

that's mind-blowing.

Totally.

I think about that in Phoenix. You know, we walk— because I studied herbalism in Phoenix, so I know a lot more of the desert plants than what's up in Michigan where I'm from the other half of the year. And we're walking through and there's these scorpions and sharp rocks, and, you know, it could be kind of treacherous, a lot of like potential for skin abrasions. And then all along, all over the place, is chaparral or creosote. And that's just such a wonderful salve that we can make it into. It's anti-inflammatory. It promotes healing of skin and collagen and tissue. It's an antibacterial, and it's just growing right there where we need it the most. And so I think about that with dandelions too. It's like when the soil needs replenishment and it needs healing, dandelions will pop up.

That and thistle, which is like, I mean, it's intense, but it's like, that'll make you resilient.

And thistle, like milk thistle is probably, I mean, milk thistle is in my top 3, I would say.

Yeah.

It just seems so important.

What else is in your top 3? I'm going to make a list here. Milk thistle.

Well, my personal top 3 might vary from, or might differ from what I would recommend to the world. For the world, bitters, milk thistle, and probably ashwagandha.

Ooh.

Or, or like an adaptogenic blend for, for the stress levels of, of today.

Okay. I have a question for you about ashwagandha.

Yeah, of course.

So I get asked about ashwagandha all the time, especially from perimenopausal women.

Mm-hmm.

And I've seen in some of my perimenopausal women who have had a history of androgen dominance, so maybe they have a little bit more of a PCOS picture, polycystic ovarian syndrome, or maybe they have a little bit more male sex hormones. I've seen a couple handfuls of those women, they actually feel worse on ashwagandha. But then when you look at the research, it doesn't really seem to show any sort of increase in testosterone. So first question is, have you seen that and do you have an alternative? And the second question is, I have an alternative and I'm wondering what you think of my alternative. Can I tell you what the backup is? It's wild asparagus or shatavari. Have you ever used her?

Nice. Yes, definitely. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I haven't in my personal practice, I didn't have that experience, but I have, uh, received that question and that feedback before and, and also seen the same. I'm familiar with the same that, you know, the research doesn't suggest, you know, that, that would be, that ashwagandha would be causing that issue. But, um, if, I mean, if that comes up, like one of the beautiful things about, you know, herbalism of course is there are so many alternatives if we don't want to use a specific plant. Or for example, very, a very small percentage of the population will have an allergy or a really strong allergic reaction to ashwagandha, it being a member of the nightshade family. So for example, if you can't use a certain herb, you're allergic to mushrooms, whatever it is, like there's an alternative. Yeah, exactly. Um, and then it just depends on what exactly we're using the ashwagandha for. So, you know, most commonly, and one of the reasons I would, you know, say it would be in my top 3 is that it's so helpful for normalizing cortisol levels. And it's one of the, it's one of the best tolerated and like accessible and, you know, most familiar of the adaptogens, which are, you know, helping us become more resilient to stress. Um, but there are so many others. We could use cordyceps if we're not allergic to fungi. We could use shatavari, like schisandra. We could use, you know, energizing adaptogens like The ginsengs, especially if it's, you know, menopausal or postmenopausal, or anytime that energy is starting to wane, we can use, you know, American ginseng, Panax, eleuthero. Those are all ginsengs, and they're a little more energizing. But because, you know, they're all adaptogens, they're all working through the HPA axis to help improve our resilience to stress. So, you know, if we don't want to use ashwagandha or we don't feel good using ashwagandha, completely fine. I think it's so, it's, it's so rare to find, you know, an herb that is the only herb that works the way that it does. You know?

I appreciate what you're saying about the nightshade component as opposed to, because a lot of the people I've learned from are theorizing it's more the androgen effects. But the nightshade, so many people are sensitive to nightshades. And so other things like tomatoes or eggplants, other things that fall into that category. If this someone who's listening is like, oh yeah, I, I have a terrible reaction to those, then if you also have a not great reaction to ashwagandha, it could be for that reason. And like you said, there are other plants. It's so cool because we get to personalize them. You get to make your own blends and Really make it perfect for each individual, as opposed to just sort of like a one-size-fits-all.

Exactly. And that's, you know, and the, the, I'm thinking of the one-size-fits-all, plus you have all these negative side effects, you know, that are typical of like traditional, you know, medications. Whereas with herbalism, it's like personalize it exactly for you, and you'll have all these extra benefits that you don't necessarily realize or you don't, you know, aren't trying to treat necessarily. They're You know, every herb has so many benefits, so many. There's that primary action, you know, that we categorize them based on, but then they're all, you know, secondary and tertiary and just additional, you know, practically all of them are antioxidant and anti-inflammatory and all these things. So it's a really, really beautiful way to use medicine. You know, it's a special medicine for sure.

Yeah. Imagine having positive side effects. Side effects may include more energy, feeling more radiant.

Better. Like, yes, yes, I love it.

So my question is then, how much do people really need to know about herbalism to, to really benefit from it? Like, how can people You know, without going to school for herbalism? Like, how can people really benefit from this knowledge?

Yeah, thanks for asking that question. I, I really like to make sure that it's clear that nobody has to want to be an herbalist to practice herbalism. Nobody has to go to school for it. You don't have to know, you know, more than you want to know. So You know, some people want to know, some people want to make their own medicines and forage and garden and all of these things, and that's great. And they, they will learn. For, for anyone else, it can be a matter of, you know, working with, um, working with meaning buying a good quality herbal product and committing to using it for 30 days or 60 days, or setting up an appointment with an herbalist and letting them give you a recommendation for your health. And then following that recommendation. It could be choosing one plant and getting to know that plant. You know, that's, that's really how, how I began in terms of learning the herbs, the sort of canon of all of these different plants was, you know, one plant, if, if that calls you. So there are all these different ways. Otherwise it's, you know, I'm going to buy a great tincture for my energy levels in the afternoon, and I'm going to use it and see how it makes me feel. And then occasionally maybe I'll read the back of the bottle, see what herbs are in there. Maybe one will, you know, spark my interest and I'll, I'll want to learn a little bit more. I think what happens is when we just like take, just tiptoe, like dip a toe into this world and see or feel, you know, notice the effects It just opens up. And I find that, like with anything else, it pulls us in if it, you know, because it makes us feel better, because it changed our day or changed our week or something like that. It's very captivating. But to answer your question, you don't need to know much. There are a lot of great herbalists and great companies out there producing very high-quality herbal products right now, and we can trust them. If we don't want to do that work, we don't have the time to do that work on our own.

Yeah. So how do you, how do people decide which companies are reputable, able to be trusted?

Yeah, it's a great question. So I like to look and see how old the company is. I like to see if there are herbalists who are owners of the company, founded the company, are doing the product formulations, anything like that. That'll all be clearly listed on their website. Some of my favorite herbal companies are 40 years old, 50 years old. They're growing most of their plants. They're, you know, producing these tinctures, and you can find them, you know, on the internet. You can find them in grocery stores. You can find them at health food stores. Look and see if they have, you know, organic, wildcrafted, sustainably, you know, sustainably harvested. Do they have any certifications or, you know, studies or proof of the Um, basically the contents of the product. So this, you know, we're selling this herb and it's actually confirmed that it's this herb because a lot of times when we're buying cheap products, they will be contaminated or adulterated, something like that. Um, so that, that brings me to, to one point worth mentioning, which is, you know, I like to recommend that people sort of use the same criteria to evaluate herbal products that they would apply to their food. So if organic is super important to you, buy organic herbal products. If that's not accessible, then do the best you can. So whatever matters to you and whatever you, you know, buy food based on, apply that to herbal products. And the cheapest option is not always the best value. You know, a conventional apple is not equivalent to an org— or a, you know, a wild apple. So if we have access to the wild apple, we should eat that one. If we have access to the wild you know, crafted herbal products, those are going to be the, the best. But do the best you can is what I would say. Does that help?

To emphasize something you're saying, I think it's really, really important, is that not all, not all brands and not all herbs are created equal. And so we think about the life process of a plant where, you know, it starts at the root and then it sends energy up the stem, it grows some leaves sending energy to the leaves, and then it grows the petals and the flower. And so if, for example, we're harvesting kava, Kava kava, Hypermethysticum, this wonderful plant whose roots have kavalactones, these constituents that can calm anxiety, is that we want to make sure that the Kava kava that we buy has been harvested, that the roots have been harvested before it goes to flower, because it's going to be sending so much of that goodness In order to flower. And then conversely, if you're trying to get chamomile, you don't want to harvest chamomile after it's been flowering and it's going to seed. You won't want to harvest chamomile before it's flowering because the part we're often using are the flowers. So when a company is harvesting, manufacturing these products, is, is it going to be medicinally potent? Is it going to be pure? Is it going to be wildcrafted? Which I actually would love for you to expand on that a little bit about how we're taking care of our plants in terms of the natural resource, because I don't know if a lot of people are familiar with that process.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, you raise a good point, you know, prior to the question too, which is, again, companies or, or makers, it can even be individuals who know what they're doing. are crafting herbal products that are so much higher quality because, you know, like you said, they know the parts of the plant to use and the time of year and even the time of day to harvest. So that's very important. Mm-hmm. And kava is a great example because kava has an unfortunate history of, you know, being a tarnished reputation due to producers, you know, using incorrect parts of the plant or extracting with certain methods that made it, unsafe. And in terms of wildcrafting, so sometimes, you know, herbs will be cultivated, right? Grown, you know, in a farm or in a specific system. It's very common. It's very common, especially for plants that are at risk. But some companies or some makers have the ability to go out and essentially forage their plants and use, you know, wildcrafted Um, botanicals, which is, you know, the pinnacle of, of, um, of medicinal value. It's just such a, such a beautiful thing. But as with all things that we're harvesting from the wild, you know, there are ways to do it that are sustainable. For example, harvesting the right parts of the plant at the right time of year, not taking all of the plants. Um, and there are ways to do it that are unsustainable and that have led to overharvesting and, you know, creating species that are at risk too. So I think, you know, as with everything, it's like wildcrafted is ideal. Um, but we want to make sure that it's, you know, wildcrafted by somebody who understands or by an organization who understands, you know, that it's sustainably, it's done so sustainably. So. Yeah, that's

brilliant.

I love it. Yeah, I think that's so important to speak to because there are so many companies that are not doing that due diligence and it's not really regulated. So I think that's really important for people. Okay, so I'm curious, before we head out, would you want to help us make a tincture for Stress relief, or, you know, like just mental well-being before we head out?

Yes, I would love that. Are we just doing a— doing an imaginary creation right now? Yes. Oh, yes. Okay.

So Hadley, what's their dosha? You gotta tell her the dosha because she knows Ayurveda too. So that will help with making it more specific.

Yes. Okay. Let's say this person is Well, I'll just give you my dosha. So how about— Yeah, we're going to make a stress release. Yeah. How about Pitta-Kapha with feeling maybe a little bit low energy, but also stress at the same time?

Mm. A little bit of low energy, but stress at the same time. And tell me, how does your anxiety manifest? Where do you feel it and how does it appear for

you? Yeah, let's see. I mean, being such a Pitta, it's like right here on my forehead, the lines between my eyebrows, my third eye, kind of like intensity there.

Sort of muscular tension.

Okay.

All right, so let's see. I would say— I'm just writing these down so I can look at them. So I would say we would do a blend. I, I like when I'm treating stress or anxiety, I like to combine nervines and adaptogens. And the reason for that is that nervines tend to work more acutely, so you give— they give you a quicker, you know, relief. And then adaptogens are the like lower, slower foundational herbs. So for your stress, do you have any, um, experience with ashwagandha? Have you had any negative side effects with it or, um? No.

No negative side— yeah, yeah, I've, I've used it before, but, um, no negative side effects. No, just I can't have mushrooms, so, you know.

Okay, that's an important point. Okay.

Yes, yes.

All right, so we'll start with ashwagandha as the base, and we'll make sure that it's dosed quite high because ashwagandha is commonly underdosed. So you want to

be

2 to 3 grams a day. So you might have to take this tincture a couple times a day, but it'll taste great, so you'll, you'll love it.

Love it.

So we'll do ashwagandha for that. I think for your sort of the tension in your face or, you know, forehead muscles, jaw, that would definitely be a place for skullcap. So you could add that. That's a nervine that's really good for like muscle tics and twitches, stress, anxiety, all those kinds of things. So we have ashwagandha, skullcap. It's also a little cooling, so kind of nice for your your Pitta, you have your Kapha low energy. So for that, let's see, I want to look for something that's a little like either normalizing or energizing without being overstimulating. I would probably do Eleuthero for that. So Eleuthero is the herb formerly known as Siberian ginseng. Okay. It's mildly energizing, but it's an adaptogen, so it's giving you that Stress, resilience, that sort of thing. And it sounds to me, it sounds like there's a little bit more of this stress and tension, but not necessarily anxiety. Are we feeling anxiety? Okay.

Yeah, I, I mean, I don't, but like, maybe let's say someone does feel a little bit of anxiety as well.

Okay. For that, yeah, I want, because I feel like I want to add one more herb for you here.

Yeah.

We'll have a driver.

Yeah, like a driver, and then maybe one more nervine for the, for the anxiety. So we could do— I think licorice should probably be a little bit too stimulating. So maybe we just add like prickly ash. Prickly ash is, you know, one of those bioenhancers like black pepper helps you absorb everything. But I feel like I, I'm getting lavender. I don't know. I might just be partial to that plant, but I feel like— I love— let's do lavender for the anxiety. Lavender is the plant for peace. So not sedative. You get some nootropic effects from it. Calming. Yeah. Peaceful.

And I do feel a little bit energized from lavender. When I smell lavender, I feel like a calm energy. So,

yeah. Refreshing.

Yeah.

Okay, so that's our formula.

I love it.

Eleuthero, ashwagandha, skullcap, and prickly ash just to, like, zest things up and make sure it's like, yeah, make sure you're— well, prickly ash is fun because it's like it has a certain taste and, and kind of experience to it. But it's the function in this formula is to, you know, work as a bioenhancer and make you absorb everything really well. So

I love that.

That was very fun.

Yeah.

I wrote down what I would've done, and we had 2 of the 4 same plants, so it was so fun. Good job. I wrote down Gotu Kola because it's tridoshic. Yes. And it's just great for the stress response, it's revitalizing. So I had that as my lead herb, and then I had Skullcap and I had Eleuthero. And then I had my driver as Peppermint because it would cool the Pitta, but it's a little bit astringing.

Yeah.

So it might be helpful for the kapha if it isn't, like, too cooling. But what do you think of that? Would you say that that would be too cooling for a kapha?

I mean, I guess it depends on how kaphic our kapha is. Ah. But I love that, and I feel like it's very— it's still— it's very similar. Like, aside from the peppermint, it's the same. Like, I'm feeling the Gotu Kola and the—

Yeah.

Yeah, I love it.

Hadlee.

The prickly ash might be warmer than we want for a kapha. So hearing the peppermint, let's do the peppermint instead of the prickly ash. I like it.

I need to use more prickly ash in my life, though. When you brought that up, that inspired me. I'm like, where has she been?

I love that one. I use a lot of— well, I used to use prickly ash and cayenne and everything kind of hot and stimulating that I could get my hands on to survive New York winters.

Yeah. Seriously.

Then I decided to spend them in Costa Rica. That worked better. But—

Dream. And then more lavender and peppermint and all of those wonderful friends. I feel like we could hang out all day, like, making all the recipes. But you have a book, and I'm very, very excited about it. So can you tell us a little bit about your book? How people can find you and all of the things.

Absolutely. Yes, I have a book. It's Naturally: The Herbalist's Guide to Health and Transformation, and it is a book about herbalism for absolutely everyone, anyone. If you're familiar with herbalism, if you've never heard of it before and you're skeptical, please pick up my book. If you are a beginner, intermediate, you know, experienced, there's something in there for everyone. It includes, you know, the essentials, the basics, the how-tos of just kind of, you know, setting up this practice. There are lots of stories from clients that I'd seen, you know, over the course of the last 10 years of practice. You see examples of all of these herbs in action. And then, as mentioned, each chapter is dedicated to a category of herbs, which also means it's dedicated to a system in our body. So So the nervous system, the stress response system, sleep, digestion, um, you know, our mental health, um, brain health. So each chapter has a focus and there's a really helpful guide in the back, um, with a lot of herbs listed. And I think, I mean, I think this is a resource alone that is so necessary in the, in the world today. Um, you know, all the herbs, what they do, and then how to take them. Tea, tincture, capsule, any kind of cautions or watchouts. So that's Naturally, and it is, it will be available wherever books are sold. There will also be an audiobook, and you can find me on the internet at rachellerobinet.com and also on Instagram, Rachelle Robinette.

And we'll make sure those links are in the bio. And by the way, what is the plant that's on the COVID of your book?

This is a conceptual plant. It's not actually a literal plant. So I love this artist who does sort of imaginary dreamlike conceptual illustrations, and the book is full of these really beautiful illustrations by her, Moira Firth. And so this is, um, whatever you see, it's a sort of Rorschach plant, so you can—

It's beautiful. The COVID is definitely something that y'all are gonna wanna have on your coffee table. Like, get the book.

Totally.

I'm like so excited about the audiobook, but I also want to own the physical copy because it's so pretty. Yeah,

it's so pretty.

Incredible. And that table, the tables and like lots of things that are in the back of the book are going to be so useful for flip. It's, you know, in that sense it'll function like a cookbook or recipe book. You can flip through and scan and kind of check against, you know, this tea you're drinking, or, you know, what's the dosage for this. So I'll be all right.

Awesome. Well, Rachelle, such a joy to hang out with you. We'll definitely have to follow up. Everybody get her book, download it, and then leave some words of encouragement because that for sure is what the publisher needs in order to have her write more books and to spread the good word. So buy the book, get it local, and leave a really good reads, Amazon, wherever you can, leave some words of encouragement. And we'll see you guys all next time.

Thank you so much.

Yeah. Bye, everyone.