Overwhelmed by Supplements? Here's What You Should Know | Ep. 99

Hello. Welcome back to the Holistic Inner Balance Podcast. I am Happy Healthy Hadlee. And I'm Dr. Nicole. And we are here today to talk about what to do when you're really confused about, should I take supplements? Should I take herbs? Should I do lifestyle changes, habit changes? Like, what do I actually start with, because a lot of times people are like, okay, there's so much out there. And this was something that I used to be so frustrated by, was like, where do I even start? So we're going to talk about where to start and kind of the step-by-step for how to actually take stock of what's going on in your body and move forward from there.

Yeah. So if you're feeling overwhelmed, if you've taken hundreds of supplements and done all of the things, this is definitely going to be the conversation for you.

Yes. If you've tried all of the herbs, all of the supplements, all of the detoxes, meal plans, whatever it might be, we're going to kind of break it down for you so that you can actually start with something that is the most effective and then build on from there.

So this format that we're going to walk you through is something that is called the therapeutic order, which is the foundation of how a naturopathic physician or a holistic physician kind of looks at health in terms of what needs healing and how do we help somebody to heal themselves. And we're gonna go through these step by step, but let's outline it together first. Does that sound okay, Hads?

Yes, please do.

So that first step is addressing acute concerns. So if you're taking notes, write down address acute concerns. The second step is giving the body what it needs. Step 3 is removing obstacles to cure. Step 4 is we're going to teach you about tonification of mind, body, and nervous system. Step 4— 5 is structural integrity. And then the last step is addressing or suppressing symptoms. And so it's going to be a wild ride, but this is the outline that you can think of with everything. If you're kid has a flu, or if you get migraines, or the person next to you is getting panic attacks, this is the scaffold that's gonna help you get better results more efficiently and more quickly without having to spend thousands of dollars on spray and pray testing and the pill for an ill model.

Oh my gosh, I love the spray and pray testing. I don't know that I've heard you say that one before. That's so good.

Yeah, that one's, that's a little secret I've been keeping in my back pocket this I love it.

Spray and pray. For some reason, it reminds me of like a skunk or something sprayed. So don't be— don't get a skunk spraying you.

And that's happened to so many of us. Like, we just feel like it's like a fire hose to the face, and it can be really expensive to order all those functional tests.

Totally. Yes. Yes. Okay, so let's start with this acute What was it called? Acute testing?

Address acute concerns.

Yes. Okay. So—

The difference between addressing acute concerns and just managing symptoms is you always want to start with the thing that's on the top of the list in terms of importance. And that means that if your body is giving you a symptom and that symptom is really, really loud and it's overshadowing everything else, You need to start there first. And this could be if you have the 8 types of anxiety, and of those 8 types of anxiety, you feel all of them. You get chest anxiety, gut anxiety, you get neurological anxiety, you feel depressed and angry, and you have trauma flashbacks. Like, maybe you have all of them, but you want to look at what's on the top first, and you're going to address that first. Secondarily is Maybe you have something more critical going on. Hadley and I were just talking about maybe you have anxiety, but your blood sugars are through the roof. You want to start with the most health-compromising or the most severe or the most problematic or most dangerous thing first and remove that in order to get out of the way.

Mm-hmm.

And so I was kind of thinking about that in some of my patients' experiences where, you know, they come in and we make a list of all of the concerns that they have, and we have to really focus on correcting that.

So good. Yeah, I'm just thinking about how a lot of times we will— we don't know exactly where to start when we have so many. Most, like, if you have one thing going on that's kind of an issue for you, you probably have multiple things going on. Like, that's That's kind of the nature of the beast because our minds and our bodies are totally interconnected and we can't actually, you know, separate them into these 2 different buckets because they're, they're affecting each other all the time at all moments of the day. And so we've got— we usually, you know, have multiple things going on in the mind and the body. If we have one thing going on, it's like, you know, becomes the perfect storm. But I love that you're saying like, okay, the one that we have to address first is just the one that's the most severe, the most intense, the one that's, that's causing the most pain, suffering, all of that. So I think that's a really good rule of thumb.

So when you have a client come in and see you, Hadlee, how do you help them do that process? Because I know that you have people and they're coming in and they want to change their life and they want to change their habits. And sometimes that involves diet or exercise or supplements. Or testing. And so how, when you're looking at all of their symptoms, do you in particular with your philosophy of Ayurveda, how do you pick out the main thing?

Yeah, that's a really good question. So first of all, if there's something that's super, super severe that needs like medical care, I can't do that. So I'm always like, you got to go figure that out with your doctor first. Same with, same with like if they need Therapy because that's not what I do either. And so sometimes, well, a lot of the time people will do both therapy and they'll do my program, or they'll do they'll be working with like a naturopathic doctor or something, and they'll also do my my program. So that's the first thing is like okay we got to get like the the very severe things under control because I don't deal with the like super severe things because you know I can't prescribe medication. I'm I'm not as Well-versed in herbs and supplements and stuff. I'm more the lifestyle side of things. But then once we've got those things kind of like— and we can do this both at the same time too. So don't think like, well, I have to do only this thing first and wait on all of the other stuff. Because I think a lot of times we think, okay, so they told me this first step to do. Now I have to do this first step. And maybe it's maybe it's like a course of like antibiotics or something and you're like, okay, now I have to wait 2 weeks until I actually start any of the other things, right? And so that's not necessary. You can start doing the lifestyle things as well, which I think is really cool and really important. And something that Dr. Kane and I were talking about before this call is a lot of times we think, you know, we can just we're in this pill for an ill model where we think, well, I don't want to necessarily take pharmaceuticals, but I want to be able to fix this problem, so I'm just going to go to herbs and supplements. And we think that herbs and supplements are going to just fix the concern, but we won't have as many of the side effects as the pharmaceuticals, which is true in a lot of cases. And we have to have the We have to have the underlying health and wellness and lifestyle that we need in order for that stuff to actually work. Because if we have gut health issues that aren't able to absorb things, then we're taking a supplement or an herb that can't be absorbed into the body because we have gut health issues. Like, that's going to that's just not going to work. And there are other, other examples of that too. If our nervous system is completely dysregulated because we are— we have like a really stressful life, and we aren't doing anything to emotionally process and, you know, create more emotional agility, which we talked about in a previous episode, then we're not going to be able to do things. So what I do is I have 3 pillars of kind of what I work with with my clients. The first pillar is foundational health habits. So they're the health habits that everyone pretty much needs, and we, and we tweak them based on like the, the type of person, but they're like the foundational health habits that are like every person with a human body needs these health habits in order to really just like function in life. And most of us don't have these consistently, actually. So. A lot of times I say my program is like adulting 101 because we're not taught these things. We're not taught the foundational health habits. And so that's the first pillar. And then the second pillar is our relationship with our bodies and with food and our ecosystem and everything. And that is basically allowing us to actually discern what our bodies are telling us. So if we don't have the foundational health habits, sometimes it's really hard to actually even be able to tap into our bodies. And the foundational health habits include getting enough sleep, pooping, moving our bodies so that we can feel like we are embodied, and that kind of thing. So there are a few more, but that's kind of the gist of the foundational health habits. Then we can focus on what is my body even telling me? constipated, it's really hard to tell if we're hungry or if we're full. If we're, if we're not getting enough sleep, it's really hard to tell, like, what our bodies are telling us in any, any time. So that's the second piece. And then— There we go. I don't know what happened. I'm sorry about that.

Or you were saying, and then the third pillar.

Okay, so I said this, the first, second,

I got the first, second, and then it was a good segue, like right as you were going into the third, then it cut out. So I, I wrote the time down and then you can just start in and then we can start to edit there.

Perfect. Thank you. All right. So the third pillar is then going to be nervous system regulation and emotional processing. And what I have found is that it's really hard to do that work if you don't already have a sense of what's going on in your body and what's going on in the emotional or the physical sensations that arise with your emotions. So we do that part third. So I guess what I'm saying is the very first part for all of this is the foundational health habits, then the second, and then the third.

So when we're starting with addressing acute concerns, what I kind of hear you saying is that we have to have our ducks in a row and sort of understanding the rhythms of our bodies and the information that our bodies are giving us. And then with that information, we're going to have a lot more clarity on where to start. And so if it's something that's an emergency situation, then of course, seeing either a therapist or a doctor or somebody who can specialize in that acute concern. But then when you're trying to figure out all of these general symptoms and everything feels acute, is once you have those 3 pillars really put into place, The body is going to be giving you information and you can convert that information into actionable steps.

Exactly.

So the 3 pillars, just to summarize back, is one is those foundational health habits like sleeping, pooping, movement, nutrition, etc. The second pillar is that relationship with the body, food, your ecosystem. And then that third pillar is emotional and nervous system regulation. And so this is really like nourishing the body and then gathering that data from the body so that you can then be thoughtful about, well, what are my symptoms telling me is an unmet need so that I can meet that need? Right?

Exactly. And that gives us the data to be able to then use the herbs and the supplements and all of that kind of thing. Because when we start with the herbs and supplements, we might find, okay, I'm taking this supplement, but it's not working. But it's really because you're not sleeping enough, or it's really— and if you were sleeping enough, maybe it would work. So all of those foundational health habits are so crucial when we're taking herbs and supplements as well.

So that's a good segue into giving the body what it needs, which is step 2. So we're getting that nice foundation, we're creating this relationship with our body, we're looking at our symptoms from a different philosophy. Instead of as the problem, we're looking at them as data about what needs healing and how. And then the second step is giving the body what it needs. And those 3 pillars are really foundational for that. And so if your body isn't getting everything that it needs, some of those needs can be met with supplementation. But really, if you can make those changes with your lifestyle and with habits, that's going to save you a lot of palliative care, and it's also going to save you money. where you're not having to spend a ton of your cash finding pills at a store that then you have to take for the rest of your life. So I actually love to talk a little bit more about this. What is it that our bodies need? Let's get creative with that.

Yeah. Well, and I just want to say, like, you would not believe the amount of money that my clients start saving on supplements because they're like, I thought I had to take all these supplements, and now I feel like Amazing. And I'm getting a lot of the nutrients that I need from food and all of that kind of thing. And they're like, wow, I'm saving hundreds of dollars a month from supplements and herbs. And because a lot of people are in that realm rather than pharmaceutical medication, but they save money on that stuff too. But yeah, so it really does make a huge difference.

I have a client that came to me because he was wanting to taper off of his benzodiazepine. And so for those who are listening, a benzodiazepine is a medication that's often prescribed for anxiety or insomnia, fear of flying, seizures. And so that's like Xanax or Valium or Klonopin. Those are all benzos. And this person was taking Xanax and he discovered it because it helped him not be so anxious flying. And then he was like, oh, I feel so calm and great. I'm gonna— Take this and see what else it can help. And he found that he was needing it more and more and more the longer that he took it, and it wasn't working as well as it used to. So he was taking it more frequently and he found himself kind of in this, this landslide of rebound symptoms and then interdose withdrawal, where he would take a dose, feel good for a couple of hours. His body would almost like boomerang in the opposite direction. So then he was wanting to take it more, right? So he came to me, Hadley, and he was taking 26 different pills in the morning. He was taking an equal number of those pills in the lunchtime hour. He was taking a handful of pills in the afternoon, and then all of the things that he was taking at night in order to go to sleep. It was just absolutely amazing. I, I included his case into my benzodiazepine course. And we had to make the font really small to fit all of his supplements into one slide because he was taking so many.

And wow.

He's like, I'm still anxious and I am spending tons of money, thousands of dollars a month on supplements. And oh, and I have no appetite. And I'm like, well, yeah, your gut's filled with like gelatin capsules.

Yeah.

There's— how could you possibly eat? And so if you're listening to this and you really resonate, This is exactly why we want to address acute concerns first, make sure we're giving the body what it needs. And then that third one we'll get to in a moment. He definitely had an obstacle to cure, but instead of going straight for the supplements, which we'll talk about, like, when do I take an herb? When do I take a vitamin? We got you.

Mm-hmm.

But let's look at what the body needs. And so in that moment, if we had met or he'd have met you, Hadz, When he was anxious and flying, what could that data be? So let's play with that. What was his body telling him in that moment? You need Xanax.

Right, right.

More Xanax.

Well, okay, so all of the things that you mentioned with why you would take a benzodiazepine is all vata. It's fear of flying. It's anxiety. It's seizures. It's all of the things that are the vata dosha. If you don't know, you know, if you're just new to the podcast, welcome. And if you want to know more about vata, we've got tons of episodes about the different doshas, the mind-body constitutions in Ayurveda. But vata is basically like the element of air and space. And so all of that is very— there's lots of movement, lots of the The qualities are like lightness, movement, all of that kind of thing. And so fear is a really big vata symptom. So if you have a strong fear of flying, you want to do basically what's opposite of vata. So what's opposite of light and mobile and dry and, you know, can be, can be like a tornado in your mind. And so what do we want to do is we want to really regulate the nervous system. And so there are lots of different practices that we can do, like in the moment, which sometimes are more or less effective, especially if we haven't been doing things outside of just the moment of like, oh my God, I'm panicking on a flight, which I know that you have also experienced as well, Dr. Kane. And we've talked about this on a previous episode of traveling and kind of what to do when you're traveling. But doing practices like nervous system regulation practices and doing lifestyle things to regulate your nervous system throughout your, throughout your day, like your everyday life, not just like, you know, the couple of days leading up to the flight or just on the flight, that's going to make such a huge difference for you to, to balance your vata, to kind of calm that, that air. Like, like I sometimes think of it as like a buzziness, like an out-of-control buzziness that kind of happens.

Yeah. So his body needed grounding. His nervous system needed grounding.

Yes. Yep. We got to, we got to bring it down. It's all like up in the air. We got to bring it down into the body.

So ways to ground, ways to bring it down. So, you know, giving the body what it needs to ground it. And so some things that come to mind for me would be getting outside and getting my bare feet on, literally grounding, getting— Yeah. On the ground, feet in the grass or in the dirt, and being in nature. A lot of people love forest bathing where they can like commune with the trees, go outside. There's a lot of thermography studies where they'll do a thermograph of somebody when they're pre-forced bathing, and then they'll do it and they'll look at blood flow after they've been outside in nature. And there's objective changes that can happen as a result of that earthing and grounding behavior. What else would you do if he had met you before these thousands of dollars of supplements and Xanax? What else would you have done to help him? His unique body needed grounding, what would you have done?

Right. Yeah. So I would have also focused on— well, I would have definitely focused on lots of different practices of, of actually like putting your hands on your body. We've talked about this before, of like self-massage, therapeutic self-massage. So you can check out that episode too. That would be huge because that's really, really important for actually regulating the nervous system. And when we think about grounding down, a lot of times we're in our minds, we're just like, you know, spinning around in our minds. And even if we just like, we don't even have to like do a full body massage. But even if you just put one hand on one shoulder, you just automatically feel like, oh yeah, I'm here in my body. Right? So, so practices like that with with physical touch is going to be really important. And then I would also focus on food, vata-balancing food and things that are going to be really nourishing for the body. You know, depends on if he has, you know, other things, other doshic imbalances with, with that as well. But food that's going to be really nourishing, lots of you know, healthy fats, things that are kind of— that are warm and wet is kind of the name of the game for vata. So like cooking, cooking your foods, not eating, you know, a bunch of like raw, crunchy foods that are filled with air, because that impacts your gut health. And then that impacts, you know, your gut-brain connection. And Ayurveda knew this thousands of years ago, which is just so cool. And then Practices for grounding that might be helpful for like exercise-wise are going to be things that are more stability-focused. So, you know, even like weightlifting can be really grounding. And, you know, not— we're not doing like, you know, super fast, like circuit training, though that's really helpful for most people too. You know, that's beside the point. Yeah. But bringing in some, some sort of like weightlifting that's like slow stability, like balancing, that kind of thing is also incredibly grounding for the nervous system. So I'd bring in, you know, a few of those different things, but I would probably start with hands on the body.

Yeah, I think that would be brilliant. And I like what you're saying with the food. You know, when we go to airports, oftentimes airport food is going to be things like bagels which are dry and airy, and it's going to be things that are really high in sodium. And you're going to find caffeine, like you go and you get your Starbucks coffee from the airport. And so just like little hacks that might have helped him.

And the plane itself, like the humidity on the plane is like 20% humidity. And like we thrive at 50%, like humans thrive at like 50% humidity.

Yeah,

it's 20% or lower on most planes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're plummeting. You're like plummeting 30,000 feet through the—

Yeah, you're just like, just like going so fast and so high in the air. Yeah, it's all about that.

So what else this body needs is, you know, I like what you were talking about earlier with one of the pillars is pooping. Is vata often can be more constipated, right? You're dry. And so if you know you're going to be traveling, is using diet and supplements to actually help you poop, to make sure that you don't get constipated when you're traveling can be really helpful. Totally.

Yeah. And a lot of times we think that we just need more fiber if we are constipated, but sometimes that can actually be like drying for the colon and for the intestines, and then that makes you more constipated. And so we want to actually bring in the oiliness as well. So we do definitely want fiber, but we also want to bring in the oily Oiliness, cooked vegetables, cooked foods, that kind of thing as well to help things slide through your intestines.

Yeah. And I had a teacher who was like, if you need to, this is a time for herbs. We're talking about, well, what supplements should I take or should I take vitamins or herbs? Herbs can be really good for this. And so if your body needs to poop and it needs to poop because you're in a vata state, like my client, this is just one example. We could do a million episodes on the different variations.

Totally.

But then using herbs that are going to help with digestion, like a carminative, but herbs that are also very grounding and vata pacifying could be really good for that. And so I'm thinking about burdock root, dandelion root. I'm thinking about ginger. It grows under the ground. It's warming. Ginger tea to help your bowels move. Probiotics can be really good. And so when you're using supplements, people are like, oh, well, magnesium helps me poop. Yeah, magnesium will help you poop, but we want to restore the balance to why your body isn't doing it on its own while helping address that symptom. So it's like a little bit of nuance in that, right? Like,

why?

Yes. So giving your body what it needs. And so, like, you know, Hadley's basic pillars, like, you know, making sure that you're making good choices around sleeping. And I have a really good book recommendation for that, actually, Hadley. I just got this book and I've been loving it.

Oh, what is it?

It's called Hello Sleep. Have you heard of that?

No, I haven't. I've, uh, I've read Why We Sleep, but I haven't I haven't heard of that one.

It's by Jade Wu and it just came out, I think '22 or '23. And it's Hello Sleep: The Science and Art of Overcoming Insomnia Without Medications.

Oh, amazing.

And she basically talks about why sleep hygiene is making us all have more insomnia. It's a really good book, but you know, whenever people in blogs are like, just get good sleep. And then I'm like, oh, that makes me wanna punt you because I'm not like, Just okay. Well, that's good.

Yeah, right. Like, that's easy.

I'm gonna sleep now. You just fixed all my problems, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So if me saying that, like, get good sleep, just made you want to punt me, then just get the book because I got you, babe. I totally get it.

Totally. Yeah, that's a big piece of what we have to do in my, my program with sleep is like, but how do I actually get the quality of sleep that I need? Because it's not just like, just get more sleep. At all.

We did a podcast on sleep a long

time ago. We should upgrade. We should do another one.

Yeah, let's up that.

I like it.

Other things your body needs— is it need— in your body, your mind, and your nervous system— is it needs love. It needs rest, which it could be like sitting outside and vegging over a mush book, or it could be going bowling, it could be gardening, it could be anything. You need relaxation and And so as you're listening to this, like, get out a piece of paper and just write down all of your needs and wants, the things that you need for emotional wellbeing, the things that you need in order to feel physically healthy. And I, I guarantee you that the list isn't all supplements and herbs and vitamins. Right. There's so much more that we need beyond that. And so write down everything that you know that you need that makes you feel healthy and well. If you haven't felt healthy and well for a while, maybe ask other people like what helps them feel healthy and well and get ideas. And then we will move on to the third. Are you ready for number 3?

Let's do it.

It's removing obstacles to cure.

I love this one.

This one's so important because these are the things that are getting in the way of you living the life that you want to live. And I have I have a pet peeve. Can I tell you what my pet peeve is?

Yes, please.

My pet peeve is when doctors or other well-intended clinicians tell somebody that it can't be done. Like, oh, you can't be cured of anxiety, or you're just going to have to live with this for the rest of your life. And like, existentially and emotionally, like, how dare you take away someone's hope? Like, that's one whole thing. But the other thing is, if you have a clinician that tells you that, it's a cognitive distortion, number one, because they're suddenly psychic and fortune-telling.

Yeah.

And that's like one of the, the 10 types of twisted thinking that David Burns talked about in like his Feeling Good Handbook from— I don't know, this is like the 1990s or something like that. It's like a basic cognitive distortion is fortune-telling. And so when a doctor says that to you, they're, they're using a cognitive distortion to try to sway your opinion, your hope. And the second is, is that they're telling you that they're not the person to help you get there because they clearly don't think it can be done.

Totally.

So if you feel like you have been doing everything right and you're listening to podcasts like this one and you're trying to figure out what might be the missing piece, Is delete the messages from the people that tell you it can't be done, because lots and lots of people have proven otherwise. I mean, we see that with like the evolution of science and math and medicine and physics. Like, all sorts of people were told it can't be done, and then they were like pooped on, and then it turns out that they were right, right?

And so good.

What's oftentimes the problem is there could be an obstacle to cure. There could be something that's getting in the way Of you getting the results. And this was a huge thing that it turned out for my benzo client. He had an obstacle to cure, which I'll tell you— tell us about in a minute. But tell me about what you run into, Hadlee, like obstacles to cure.

Yeah, I was just thinking about— I actually just created a video yesterday that is very much related to this. You know, nervous system regulation is a really big, like, trending term right now, right? Which I'm very excited about. I'm very glad. But I think we, we kind of obsess about like, what do you know, my nervous system is dysregulated, how do I regulate it? But there's an obstacle to cure. There's an obstacle to getting our nervous system regulated. There are many. One of them is ingesting too much news, too much like disturbing, like Movies, disturbing information, like all of that stuff. We— our nervous systems are not designed to be able to handle knowing every terrible thing that's going on in the world. Like, they're just not there. Like, we were never— we didn't evolve to know all of that stuff. And now I know that, like, people are like, well, I want to be a responsible citizen, and that's great, and we can titrate it. So that it's not like a fire hose coming at us. And so your obstacle to cure could be like what you are in Ayurveda, what you're taking in through your 5 senses. All of that has to be digested. So not just your food has to be digested, but all of the information that you take in through your eyes, everything you see, everything you hear, everything that goes on your skin. All of that, everything you smell, all of that has to be digested. And so, and it might be in the mind, it might be— well, it's always in the mind and body, but all of that has to actually be digested. And so your obstacle to cure might be that you're taking in some— or is probably that you're taking in something that is getting in the way of your body healing itself, because that's really what is happening is your body is healing itself. We're just supporting it along the way.

Have we talked about the default mode network?

I don't think so.

Ringing a bell? Okay, so I'm writing that book right now, Panic Proof, and one of the chapters is about the neuroscience of exactly what you're talking about. And so the research shows that our brain has these areas that are dedicated to scanning your internal environment and your external environment. This is called the salience network. And one of the parts of the brain that's involved in the salience network is your thalamus. And your thalamus is kind of like the relay center. It takes all of these data points in and it has to, as you said, filter it. And so the research shows that we receive about 11 billion data points per second from our environment and our bodies, and that the thalamus and its associated organs in the brain or parts of the brain, then they filter that into your conscious awareness. Whatever is relevant or salient, they send down to your amygdala, your feeling part of the brain. And if you had to guess, I feel like, I feel like we talked about this. Maybe my brain is just like having déjà vu. But if you had to guess how many of those 11 billion data points our brain is capable of computing per second, oh gosh. How many, how many would you guess?

It's got to be like, uh, less than 1%. Yeah.

Yeah, it's

50.

5-0. That's it. We are only on average able to be consciously aware of 50%. 50 points out of 11 billion data points per second.

This is why people say that like your subconscious is running you, running you, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And I actually have a podcast before I knew you. I did a whole podcast like way back in the day about how we live most of our lives on autopilot.

Yes. And that's why we want to automate our health habits too, so that that is all on autopilot so that we can just So then we can kind of like have those things just like checked off, and then it's like, okay, now what? Now I get to actually think about the things that really excite me in my life because I don't have to think about like, should I work out today? Should I go to bed at this time? Do you know, all of that kind of thing. It's automated.

It's all automated. The habits. That's everything.

Yeah.

And so what you're talking about is like your nervous system is Your nervous system is getting all of these. So when we're really stressed and we have all this incoming data, instead of 11 billion data points a second, and you're staring at a screen with a bunch of pixels and you're scrolling and you're hearing about what's happening in this country and that country and this fire and that drought and whatever is happening, it's so overwhelming and our salience network gets leaky.

Mm-hmm.

And so then that information, more of it gets dumped down to your emotional brain and your amygdala then is like, I'm constantly feeling in danger, which is then sending your nervous system into fight, flight, freeze. So then you feel stressed and overwhelmed and an obstacle to cure. Hadley, what you're saying is substantiated by neuroscience is that our brain will then adapt to being in that state of fight, flight, freeze, because it's constantly being inundated with this leaky information. Mm-hmm. So when we do fasts from social media or fasts from looking at screens, whether it's video games or television or our phones, is then we get this like almost paradoxical crash. Just like how if you're used to the light being on and you turn it off, like suddenly your photoreceptors have been oversaturated and everything is black until your eyes adjust, right?

Totally.

So when you're working on obstacles to cure, start thinking about, okay, my nervous system is regulating around being stressed, what could be then a change that I could make in my habits and my lifestyle so that my nervous system isn't having to deal with all of that? So I love what you were saying about ingesting content, not only as much content, but the quality and the negativity in the content.

Yeah, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be screens, but that's a huge factor in our modern culture. Like, We— so many people think that they don't have— so many people are so overwhelmed because of all of this, everything that you just said, that they think they don't have time. They think they don't have, you know, like, capability of doing, you know, what they really want to do in their life. And, and, you know, they have like a learned helplessness because of, because of that. And so, yeah, so. So being very, very mindful of all of that is huge. Like, you know, one of the, one of the biggest, the things that make a biggest difference for my clients, especially with like sleep and starting the day right, is, is keeping their phones outside of their bedroom, just completely outside of their bedroom and having like an alarm clock, like an old school Like, you know, you can get them on Amazon for like $10. Yeah, that—

I was like way old school. Oh, you've got like those metal buns on the top and then this like hammer that's like swinging back and forth. Do you guys know what that is?

Yeah, Todd really wants one of those. He's like, it's so cool, it's retro.

So funny. So I, I have one of those.

Yes, I love it.

So you guys, we're gonna take a quick break and then when we come back We're going to talk about if your nervous system is fried, this is an opportunity for supplements and herbs, and I'll share with you some of my favorites. But let's just take a little power break here and we'll be back in just a few minutes. Hey, Hadlee, what do you have going on in your world today?

So I am super excited because my main program, Happy Healthy Habits, I am working on some updates. right now. And it's been so cool because I've been gathering testimonials from all of my clients, past and present, who are just sharing some amazing testimonials with me. Like, people are talking about how they have lost weight without actually trying to lose weight. They're talking about how they have been getting raises or getting job offers because they are just like their mental clarity is off the charts. They're not procrastinating anymore. Like, they're so excited. They're, they're waking up in the morning feeling like they're excited about life for the first time in like years and years. And so that's what I'm super excited about right now. Uh, the enrollment period isn't open quite yet, uh, though when you're listening to this, it might be. Um, but you can go check out my, uh, my program called Happy Healthy Habits on my website, and we'll link it in the, in the show notes as well. And you can get on the waitlist so that you can be informed for any time. Whenever it opens, you'll get— you'll be the first to know. You'll get some bonuses, you'll get some fun stuff. So go get on the waitlist.

Yeah, y'all, the link's going to be in the bio of the show notes. Hadlee, you rock.

Thank you. I'm so excited to hear what you're working on right now.

Y'all, I'm just working on panic Proof. That's my passion project right now. And so hopefully that book will drop September 2024. And so, God willing, I make deadline. And then if you want to know more about the cool stuff that I have happening, just definitely check out Instagram, Dr. Nicole Cain, and then I'm totally up to date on there. And so, yeah, for sure, join me. Come on.

Amazing. I'm so excited to read your book. Oh, it's gonna be amazing.

Me too. Back to the show. I hear this is a good one.

Yeah, let's do it.

All right, everyone, welcome back. We've been talking about what supplements should I take? And we've taken a really curving, winding road to learning about that. And we've been talking about how we don't always want to start with just what herbs and supplements should we take, that we want to be strategic about when we use them, why we're using them. And we were just talking about obstacles to cure, and I was sharing a story with y'all about a client that I had come to me, and he'd started a benzodiazepine for fear of flying, ended up being a real slippery slope. And then Hadley was sharing with us a lot about nervous system regulation. And we were just to talk about if your nervous system is fried, if you've been through a lot of stress, that there's an opportunity for herbs and supplements here.

Oh, so good. It's so important that we have both of these things. And so I'm so glad that you are so knowledgeable about all of these things. I've learned so much from you about herbs and supplements. So let's get into it.

So when we're thinking about chronic stress, we want to heal the body from the effects of stress. And so the nervous system, you're going to be looking for things called trophorestoratives. And this is a name for a category of herbs that have the ability to restore the health to the tropho or the nervous system. So we call these trophorestoratives. And so some hacks that I really love is getting tinctures and then learning how to make your own tincture blends. And so we teach about this a lot in the Holistic Wellness Collective and in the Ayurveda course that you and I did, Hadlee. And so if you're like, ooh, making my own herbs, that sounds cool, well, definitely check that out. And here are some of my favorite trophorestorative herbs. Number 1 is Avena sativa. And you want aerial parts. I like this as a tincture, as a liquid alcohol extract. It has great shelf life. It works really well. And it's generally incredibly well tolerated. Avena sativa, it's been studied in clinical trials to be helpful for people who have been through chronic stress and who are going through medication or drug withdrawal, tobacco, opiates, benzodiazepines. Assuming that your doctor gives you the green light, it can be incredibly helpful. There aren't any major contraindications for avena sativa. It's generally well tolerated, although I always say any person can have any reaction to any supplement, any herb, any medication, any food. It's just whatever unique reaction that your body wants to have. When I use Avena sativa, I always start low and go up, and then you'll find that this is a slower acting herb. So you're going to hit, really hit your cruise control stride at about 6 weeks. And so that's not fast, right? Right. But the effects accumulate and they get better and better. So what you would see is you should see that your nervous system feels less fried. So if someone jumps, like if you have a startle or a jump response, like the phone rings and you're like, oh, and you jump, that's a sign your nervous system is on edge. And you'll notice less of that. You'll notice that your anxiety is a little bit less. You'll notice that your sensitivity to noise, light, and odors should be less acute and intense and bothersome. You'll notice that you bounce back from stressors more easily instead of feeling burned out and exhausted and tired and depleted and unmotivated. You'll find like, I have a little bit more bandwidth and space for this. So that's a Venus sativa.

The cool thing is about taking supplements and herbs, especially while you're doing the lifestyle stuff, is it can help you actually do the lifestyle stuff too. So sometimes we just need a little bit of extra support support so that we feel like we can even handle changing anything in our life, right? If we're totally fried, if our nervous system is totally fried, it's going to feel so daunting to change anything, even small things. That's where the herbs and supplements can come in super handy.

Which could totally be an obstacle to cure. If you're burned out and fried and exhausted and you need to make those lifestyle changes to get your life back, If you don't have that oomph inside of you, that's when herbs can make a huge and positive impact. Yeah. I'll go on.

Oh, yeah, go ahead.

I was going to say I have one more herb in mind, but I want to hear what you're going to say first.

Well, no, you go first because then I have a question about how to decide regardless of what is going on, if it's nervous system regulation or if it's something else, how to actually decide which herbs and supplements you can take that are going to be supportive as you Do the lifestyle changes and stuff. But I want to hear the other herb first.

The other herb is Gotu Kola, and Gotu Kola is— her other name is Centella. And this is a wonderful plant that has an affinity for tissue like skin, nervous system, like the meaty stuff of the body, right? And so it can help with hair, skin, nails. It can help with healing nerves. It can help with regenerating. It can help with brain plasticity. It can help with so many different things that restore the body. It's again another herb that works really well long-term. It tends to be really well tolerated. And I know I talked a lot longer about Avena sativa, but I mean, I could probably go on for days about Gotu Kola. Again, This plant, I love it as a tincture as well. I generally get my herbs either as teas or tinctures, but the tinctures just have such a nice shelf life, like the viability of it. Prana is something that you teach about, Hadlee.

Mm-hmm.

It's like when you harvest that plant, it's full of life and prana, and if it's just sitting and decomposing in a tea bag, you're going to be losing that prana over time. But I find that Really a lot of that viability is maintained in tinctures. I think they just, they're stronger, they work better. Mm-hmm. And so you can even do like a mix of a little bit of Gotu Kola and Avena as tinctures. So maybe like 2 big squeezes of Avena sativa and then 2 big squeezes of Gotu Kola, mix it in a little bit of warm water. If you need some sweetness, maybe add a little bit of, I don't know, honey or, you know, something that's gonna be balancing for your dosha, which Hadlee can teach you more about when you take her— when you join the Triple H program that she has. And the obstacle for cure— can I just say that really quickly before we go into your question? Because—

Yeah, please.

I promised I would tell you the obstacle to cure for my benzo.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Please do.

His gut was a hot mess. He wasn't absorbing anything. And so we ended up doing Stool testing. We were gathering data from the body. He had all this anxiety, especially gut anxiety. He had all the 8 types, but gut anxiety floated to the top. We're like, okay, that's the main thing and the main thing. We confirmed that with gut testing. He had such high amounts of secretory IgA, which is an inflammatory marker for a compromised gut where there's leaky fenestrations, which basically means The gut has gaps in it and things are leaking out when they shouldn't. And so he wasn't really even absorbing the thousands of dollars of supplements that he was taking. So an obstacle to cure for him was that he's taking all the things, his gut isn't absorbing, so none of them are working. So we had to pull him back.

See that all the time. Yeah.

It's so common. Our standard American diet is just like murder to our guts. Mm-hmm. So we ended up giving him a lot of carminatives, which is another category of herbs. And again, we're talking about herbs right now, but herbs are just so good at restoring health to the body, which is a little bit different than just giving your body the building blocks that it needs, is herbs can restore the health. So we gave him some carminatives that help with digestion and help with healing the gut. So he had Peppermint and ginger, Scutellaria. He had gentian and chamomile and fennel and all these really wonderful herbs that he mixed all together. And we made this gut healing blend. We gave him a psychobiotic, which probiotics for the gut. And so I promised I would share that. So that was a big part of healing. Yes.

And that sounds like it's all vata and pitta pacifying herbs.

Yeah.

So it's like, yeah, which is basically like when vata and pitta are out of balance, that's when we have nervous system issues.

I love that you just knew he was pitta and vata by just hearing about what I gave him because he's got so much underlying pitta. He's got that fire in his belly, which I love.

Right. Yeah. And you're giving him those cooling things to calm that down. And then You're able to actually heal the gut in that way.

You're brilliant, Hadlee.

You're brilliant.

Thank you.

Oh my gosh, I just love learning from you.

Same.

Can you guys tell that we're kind of obsessed with each other?

We kind of are.

Get yourself a friend that's just like Dr. Kane.

So you've been waiting so patiently while I've babbled about herbs. You had a question that you wanted to ask. I think it was like selecting an herb or supplement.

Yeah. So how do we know what herbs and supplements to take? So, you know, say it's not— we're not necessarily, although most of us are dealing with nervous system dysregulation, so like that's probably going to be helpful for almost every single person unless you're living on a remote desert island. It's probably going to be helpful. But what if we've got other things going on physically, mentally, that we're like, we've got this really big challenge, this really big thing. How do we actually decide what kinds of herbs and supplements to take for that?

Maybe we can start with this specific scenario. Yes. I can like walk through a specific scenario. So can you give me like a mock case, like a mock piece?

Yeah, yeah, let's see. Okay, so let's say— well, let's say I'm— I feel like I'm pretty grounded, but actually I'm maybe too too grounded and I don't have like a zest for life. I see this a lot actually with a lot of my clients where, I mean, a lot of times it's both. Their nervous system is dysregulated, but they're also, they're like more in that collapsed nervous system state. But, but let's say that they are feeling like, okay, I'm, you know, most of the time I'm not like overwhelmed. overwhelmed necessarily. I don't like feel like I'm running out of time or anything, but I'm just feeling like blah. I'm just feeling like apathy. And also I keep gaining weight. I keep— I'm my— like I have sluggish— well, they wouldn't say this, but I would say that they— So sorry, I don't know what's happening.

Keep going with it. I got the time.

Okay, so where did I stop?

Too grounded, no zest for life, kind of nervous system collapse, weight gain, sluggish. And that's where I lost you.

Okay, that's perfect. That's kind of where I ended up. So how do we decide, like, do I need to— because the average person I mean, I know what I would do with Ayurveda, but the average person is like, I don't know exactly. Maybe I've heard that this helps with metabolism, but do I take that? Or is it going to make it so that I have adverse reactions? Or is it even going to work? So how do we actually— what's the step-by-step for deciding how to actually choose a supplement or choose an herb?

You wanna think about what is an unmet need from your mind, your body, and your nervous system. And so you wanna look at those symptoms and oftentimes having a conversation with the body can be a really good starting point. And so you can close your eyes and you can notice that maybe that lack of zest for life. And you can see, okay, where do I feel that lack of zest in my body? And sometimes feeling for a lack of something can be a little bit tricky. And so if you're struggling to find that, then imagine what it would feel like to have zest. And so then you can imagine, oh, I feel that sensation. Maybe it's in your chest and it feels like excitement. Or maybe you're having a hard time finding that feeling of zest. And so you can go back to a time when you did feel it and try to remember a time when you did feel it. So there's a couple of different inroads for that, or you could just imagine what it would be like to feel that. And once you feel it, then you can feel into the absence of it and say, okay, well, what is missing? And then you can— I would do a float back with that. So zest for life. I feel this when I have zest, or I felt this when I had zest, or I imagined that it would feel like if I had zest. So then we remove that and we go into that present state and what is missing. You notice and you feel into that. And then you follow that back to the earliest time that you can remember that feeling or lack of feeling being there. And then you explore what was going on in your life at that time. Because that lack of zest is an adaptation to something.

Yeah,

that lack of zest is data, and you always want to try to follow those through lines to when it first began, because if you can get to that root of it, that's how you're going to heal it. Otherwise, it's like mowing over the weeds and not pulling them up, right?

Yes.

So once you fell into that That's step one where you're like gathering the data from the body. And maybe it's after you had a really bad infection, you're like, oh, this all started when I got mono and I was 16 and I've never been well since. Or it began when I found out my partner was cheating on me and my heart was broken and I've never been well since. Or it was, I went to Mexico and I got Sick from the food.

Because this was me. I had major gut health issues since then.

I got sick in Mexico too. I was like, so bad. So life inspires the content on these episodes, y'all. And so then that could be good data. So let's say that it did start, you got food poisoning in Mexico, then you'd be like, okay, well, something— it's interesting. My lack of zest started when I got sick in Mexico. ago. So we're gonna use that as a starting point. We're gonna get more information. So if it started with an illness of the gut, gut testing is going to be really valuable versus like if your partner left you when this all started, you may not do gut testing. Right.

And then— That's awesome. Yeah.

So you're, you're gathering data from the body. You're confirming if there's relevant testing, but you're not just testing for the sake of testing. And then based on what the testing says, like let's say that you do the gut testing and it's like, oh man, your gut is super out of balance. And then you can then add supplements or probiotics or herbs that will specifically restore that balance. So let's say in this scenario, the person has high inflammation in their gut and they have dysbiosis or a lack of microbial diversity. You want to bring down inflammation and you want to restore microbial diversity. We're not just giving you probiotics because you have gut anxiety. We're giving you probiotics because gut anxiety may be at the root of you living the life that you want, which is feeling zest, right?

So good. Okay, my mind is totally blown because I have always kind of been like— so I was telling you this before we started this podcast, where people ask me all the time, what supplements should I take? What supplements should everyone take? And I'm like, Well, that's not really how it works. We need to know what our specific bodies need, and so we need to do testing. But we might not need to do testing if it doesn't actually come from something physical, which is just like so freaking good,

right? Yeah.

Save a bunch of money on tests if it's not physical.

Yeah. And if you've been hitting your head against the wall and doing all this, like you listen to this podcast And 6 months later you're like, I don't know, it could be that you— who knows? But that's definitely not where I would start.

Well, and it could have been an event that then triggered something in your gut or you're like, get blood work or whatever because your mind impacts your body as well.

And

so

you maybe healed that, but then you ate all of the cake and then you got Candida overgrowth. But if you just started with treating the Candida overgrowth, like that through line goes back to the breakup. And so like you really need to address that. And that may be doing EMDR or trauma work or mindfulness or, you know, parts work, whatever that would look like for you. Yeah. Is that you're addressing the acute concerns by making sure that all your ducks are in a row with the pillars of health. You're giving your body what it needs, and oftentimes your symptoms will tell you what you are needing that you're not getting, or what you did need that you did not get.

Totally amazing. Is that the last step, or do we have one more step?

So we've talked about address acute concerns, give the body what it needs, removing obstacles to cure. We touched on tonifying weak and damaged systems. And so to tonify is to strengthen. So we think about toning your muscles. Well, you want to tone up your nervous system, you want to tone up your gut, you want to tone up your doshas so that if you have— if you don't have— it's all about having balanced doshas. And so if you don't have enough pitta, if you don't have enough fire, you want to tone up your pitta. So herbs work really well with that. Diet works really well with that. Like if I wanted to tone up my— let's say I want to tone up my pitta. Like let's say I'm like so vata dominant. I have like no fire in my belly. I have no zest. How would you have me tone up my pitta?

Okay, so I would say if you don't have a lot of zest, there's probably some kapha there too. because Vata tends to be pretty enthusiastic. But if you have lots of Vata and lots of Kapha going on, which I was actually just talking to one of my clients about this, that's their dominant and they don't have as much Pitta. And, and so bringing in heat, bringing in heat with your food that you're eating, with the exercises that you're doing, bringing it like, get sweaty. Yeah. You know, bringing in some more of that, like, motivational, like, inspirational content. It could even be more of the, like, you know, that, like, masculine, like, you can do it, like, you know, like, like push kind of thing, which usually I'm like, don't— I'm like, not about that because I have a lot of pitta in my constitution. most people are like burnt out. But if you're not burnt out, and you need more of that fire, like that's going to be the really, really helpful. And something I was actually just talking about with my client is like, she was like, well, I just don't feel like I need meditation, because I need to be moving my body more. And I need to be doing things that aren't relaxing. And I'm like, yes, not all meditations are created equal. Get a meditation that's going to be super inspiring and gonna make you want to move your body. Something that's going to be like, you know, like maybe just like a talk on YouTube. You can look up like motivational speeches or whatever, like on YouTube, or motivational meditations on YouTube or Insight Timer or whatever, and get them for free. And that's the kind of meditation that you're, that you're needing if you need more fire.

Hmm, I think that's awesome. The last 2 are addressing structural integrity. And structural integrity is just the muscles, the bones, the ligaments, the tissues, the alignment, the strength, the blood flow. So this is like stretching, yoga, exercise. Here's an interesting hack. Can I share? I know we're like kind of coming at time here, but it's an orthopedic hack for stress and anxiety and like repatterning your nervous system.

Yes, please. That sounds awesome.

So when we are sitting— and actually I have 2 hacks, but I'm only going to tell one of them today. Well, you'll just have to come back next time. So when we're sitting, remember earlier we were talking about the salience network and how that's like taking all the input and it's like trying to filter it for relevant and irrelevant? So that part of the brain gets overactivated And things— thinks that things are dangerous when you aren't moving. So think about a deer. When a deer sees you, it's like, and it freezes, right? And it's like beady little eyes, like staring at you. And so when your body is in that position of freeze, like when you're staring at your phone or you're just typing on your computer, or you're watching TV, if your eyes aren't moving, moving and rotating, looking far and close, if your neck isn't rotating, your head on your shoulders, that is putting your body in a state which triggers the salience network in your brain to think that you're in danger. And so even just sitting and being still and frozen could be overstimulating the danger part of your brain and then causing your nervous system to fry out.

Wait, this is massive information.

Hold on.

Like, it's not even just that we're like, Like taking in disturbing information or information that is like, you know, dangerous or whatever. Like even if it's the happiest information, it could still be triggering this because of the way that we are not allowing ourselves to be in an animal body that moves around and looks different places.

Yeah,

huge.

So the hack, my friends, is every 20 minutes or so, like look left and right, look far and close. And rotate your head, and that will help keep your salience network in safety zone.

Oh my gosh, the way you just did that totally looked like a deer. That was awesome. You're like— if you guys aren't seeing this video, she's like moving her head around. So good.

What is the animal? Like pigeon? At least you didn't say it looked like a pigeon.

No,

no, bobbing.

Yeah, right.

Oh my gosh, the last one, my friends, Is addressing your symptoms with supplements. And, you know, we didn't talk too much about supplements today, but when you have a hot summer sweaty day and you sweat out all your electrolytes, you want to give your body magnesium. That's giving your body what it needs. But if you're just anxious and you want to calm it down, you can give your body magnesium. It's the same solution. It's just the reasoning behind it is different.

Mm-hmm.

And so what I want to teach you all is, and what Hadley, what you teach us about in Ayurveda, is the why you do what you do. And so that last one of addressing your symptoms is you can do that. You can do what my benzo friend did and take all of the things, but you're probably going to just get general results if you're using general treatments.

Exactly. Yeah. And so that's why the supplements come last.

That's why they're last. Yeah.

Yes.

And like no time on them, huh?

Right.

What supplement should I take? Like 3 seconds at the end of an hour episode.

Right. Are— okay, I'm actually curious, are there any supplements that you feel like we kind of should all be taking because we're all in the same boat here or no? Because I, you know, like, I don't know the answer to that.

When, when I was in my first quarter of medical school, I had my birthday because my birthday's in the September, and we just started medical school. My cohort took me to a stand-up comedy show, and the dude on stage called me out and asked me that question.

No!

I was giggling as you asked me that, and I was like— so I just yelled out fish oil.

Yes!

I was like, everybody should take fish oil. And I'm like that, you know, I stand by that today. I feel like fish oil— You put it right in front of you. You're like, I'm My fish oil. Good for your brain. It's good for your nervous system. It's been studied to be helpful for headaches and anxiety and all of the things. And so that's like part of a basic 101. But we also know that because of a lack of crop rotations and nutrient soil depletion, that our food sources aren't as densely packed with all the vitamins and minerals that we would have gotten in the 1950s. And as such, if you have an increased nutrient demand because your life is stressful or because you've been exposed to environmental toxicities, you might need a multivitamin just to supplement that. If you're eating a standard American diet, you'd absolutely need a physician-grade multivitamin. Maybe you need it less if you're doing organic juicing and eating all of the healthy nutrient-dense foods, but So fish oil, multivitamin for sure.

Awesome. I love it. Okay.

Started with that.

Yes. Oh, well, thank you all for sticking with us. I know this was a long episode, but we had so much to get through, and I hope that you guys all found it super helpful. I know I— there were so many moments in here where my mind was blown, so I love when that happens.

Same. Seriously, it's like pure magic. And so if you guys have questions Then definitely let us know if there are topics that you would love to hear about. Send us a message about that too, because these conversations are guided by what you want to know, and I probably want to know too.

Yeah, absolutely. We want to talk about what you want to actually know. So message us on Instagram. I'm @happyhealthyhadley. Hadley is spelled with 2 Es at the end. And then you want to say your Instagram as well?

I'm Dr. Nicole Cain, C-A-I-N. Thanks for being here. We love you all.

Amazing. Oh, and leave us a review if you find this stuff helpful. That gets it to so many more people. We would really, really, really appreciate it so we can keep doing this.

Thank you. Oh, you guys are amazing. See you later. Bye. End at 1:28:34. And oh, I'll put

Perfect.

Cool. That was fun,

and

it will probably work out to being about like a 60-minute video, because we started at—

oh yeah,

20-ish minutes, and then there were like 3 minutes of the cutoff kicking you out, and I don't know what that was. That was silliness.

Amazing.

But that was fun. Hopefully that was— love it. I loved it.

I loved it.

Yeah.

I love how we always make it so that it's like, it's— there's step-by-step actions for people to take too, which I think people— I had someone message me on Instagram who was like, I usually don't like podcasts, but I love your guys's podcast. I was like, awesome!

If you could screen capture that and like scribble out their identifiers. Send that over because that would be good podcast marketing. Podcasts usually play

like

yours.

Yeah, she said, I am not a podcast fan, but finding yours with Dr. Nicole was amazing because of the way you share the information. Love that. It's so catchy. So there you go. I'll send it to you right now.

Yeah, send it over. Yeah. Oh my

gosh,

Haley expressed that we like need to get our game back going with podcasting. So has she connected? It doesn't look like we have like anything scheduled in the— oh, we have something.

We have, we have things scheduled through December.

Oh, good, good, good. Oh good.

We have one a month through December.

Okay, that's really good. Yeah, so then we should be fine with that, especially if on the 17th maybe we can connect before then and then we could be prepared and we just like bang out some like 2 or 3 45ers.

Yeah, yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, for sure. And then, um, oh, what was I gonna say? If you want to, like, I'm down to, to like do a quick schedule of like Talk about the Barbie movie and do it if you want to do it like late this week, early next week.

I'm seeing it tomorrow. Let's pull up this calendar because I have too many, too many calendars. Barbie movie, 6 o'clock tomorrow.

Boop

boop. What about— what is that? 1, 2, 3. Oh, I'm flying out.

Where are you going?

I'm going to New York to meet my editor and my agent. Yeah. Awesome. I am like, I'm feeling a little stressed because my deadline is in like a month and 2 weeks and I'm not done.

And oh,

I'm not usually like a last minute person.

A month and 2 weeks? You've got 6 weeks. You're not a last minute person. You've been— you already have so much done.

I have so much left to do. Oh my God, my head's exploding. What about— I have— I'd— I would have to do it on a Monday.

Okay.

Could you do

this Monday?

This Monday the 31st?

What time?

I'm so— I'm not meeting Donna on this Monday, so like any time From like after lunch, so like 1 PM or on, because I know it's earlier where you are. So could you do like 1 Eastern?

So let's see, I have a call with my client. I could do an hour at 1, but I have like a hard call.

Oh, your client's at 2?

Yeah, yeah.

Could you meet earlier? Could you meet at like—

Yeah, 12:30.

Uh, 12:30 my time.

Yeah, would 12:30 work? I know that's lunch for you.

That's okay.

Okay, we could do 12:30. So that's— yeah, 9:10 I left off. Just gotta make sure.

I know, right? Podcast about Barbie with Hads.

Yes,

Nicole. And then I'll get Give us 60 minutes for that. And then, yeah, so yeah, we'll have our critical caps on and see if there's like anything that might be like unique or different.

Perfect. We can text about it, um, after you watch it tomorrow too.

I love that.

How

is she scheduling that? I don't know. We'll just schedule it like this. Sweet. That's gonna be good. Yeah, text me today. No, let's text after tomorrow so I've seen it and I don't have like your— your— yeah, my head's— and then I'll be like, oh, I know it happened. Yeah, let's text tomorrow, or probably because— yeah, Friday, tomorrow or Friday.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds good.

Awesome, I'll see you later, friend.

All right, much love.

Bye.