Straight Talk about Women's Health with Dr. Jolene Brighten | Ep. 113

Hello. Welcome to Holistic Inner Balance. I'm Dr. Nicole, and

I'm Happy Healthy Hadlee.

We have an amazing guest today, and I know you are absolutely going to love this conversation. I know I did. What about you, Hadlee?

Oh my gosh, she is the best. That was— it's so fun. And it's also packed with like so much really, really, really great information. You guys are going to absolutely adore this episode.

Yeah. Dr. Jolene Brighton is the author of the recent book. It's called Is This Normal? Judgment-Free Straight Talk About Your Body. And it was amazing. And I just felt like, let's go for the gold and talk about the relationship between your mental health and orgasms and sexuality. So we went for it, and I took like pages of notes. What about you, Hads?

Oh my gosh, I love it. I know, I saw you, I saw you taking all your notes. You're, you're the cutest ever. I take all the notes. I, I have to like really focus on what, what people are saying, and I like can't take notes because otherwise I get distracted. So yeah, but it was so, so good, and we covered everything from like hormones and how that affects our ability to even get into the mood, but also how getting into the mood and having orgasms can also help our mental health. So it's, it's a lot of really, really great information. And she's just so fun. Like, she has such a wealth of knowledge and like such a wealth of information, and it's so nonjudgmental. Like, it's all like You— your lived experience is totally valid as a woman, which we don't always get from doctors. And at the same time, she's like fun. She's sassy. Like, she'll, she'll say things that you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you just said that. You're a doctor. Like, that's so fun. And it's just— yeah, it was just like such a, such a blast to interview her. And I think you guys are going to really like this episode.

Oh my goodness. Let me introduce you guys to Dr. Jolene Brighton.

Yes. Dr.

Jolene Brighton is a hormone expert. She's a nutrition scientist and a thought leader in women's medicine. She is board certified in naturopathic endocrinology, and she's trained in clinical sexology. She is the author of Is This Normal? A Nonjudgmental Guide to Creating Hormone Balance, Eliminating Unwanted Symptoms, and Building the Sexual Desire That You Crave. And Dr. Brighton, she's a fierce patient advocate, and she's dedicated to uncovering the root cause of hormonal imbalances. Dr. Brighton empowers women worldwide to take control of their health and their hormones through her website, her very active social media channels, especially Instagram. She's an international speaker, clinical educator, and medical advisor within the tech community. And so be sure to follow her socials and Do get her book. She was so kind in our conversation to say, if you can't afford the book, go to the library. But this is one book, if you have a book budget, this is one book you definitely want to get. And I think you're going to love this conversation.

Absolutely. Yeah. I discovered Dr. Brighton when I read her book Beyond the Pill a few years ago and have been just such a fan of hers ever since. So you maybe have heard of her through that. I think she has a couple other books as well too. But I would highly, highly, highly recommend this book. It's really, really

Awesome. You ready to dive into the interview?

Yes. Let's do it.

Let's do it. I am so excited for this conversation. Devoured your book. It's so good. Awesome.

Me too. It's so good. It's so good. I was just telling all of my clients about it.

My gateway book, though, into Dr. Jolene land was Beyond the Pill. And so then when this book came out, I was So excited for it. And I love that you do a lot of intersection with mental health and women's physical health. Like, you really do such an awesome job merging the two. So having you on this conversation, I think it's going to benefit so many people. So thank you for being here.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate all those kind words. It's been— I mean, that book was definitely a labor of love. And you said your introduction to me was Beyond the Pill. This was really the book I feel like needed to come beyond— for Beyond the Pill. And it addressed a lot of— a lot of people who read Beyond the Pill was like, they were like, I need more libido stuff. I need more about sexual health. I hear this a lot from patients, a lot from people online. And so I wanted to address that not only just through the lens of hormones, because I think it's really problematic when we pathologize things that are actually normal in women. And act like any, you know, any lack of sexual desire, any lack of inability, you know, having an ability to orgasm or natural changes that happen through your menstrual cycle, that we have to go in and treat that. So I really wanted people to understand what is their normal and how to better advocate for their health when they need to see their doctor while they're doing all this stuff at home that their doctor will probably never talk to them about.

Yeah,

totally.

It— I wanna piggyback off of that actually, cuz I wrote notes and I feel like what you just emphasized is what I wrote about. And so if, if we have some readers who have their Is This Normal book on them, I'm on page 248 and I love what you wrote, Dr. Jolene, is we're often made to feel ashamed, guilty, or like there's something wrong with us if we get emotional around our period. It's normal to feel a little emotional, irritable, anxious, ruminative, or weepy before your period as progesterone levels decline at this time. But if you feel like you can't go out in the world because you're so emotional, the sight of some people makes you want to go ballistic. You spend most of your time worrying or thinking the same thoughts. You start sobbing during an emotional movie, then that's a problem. And so kind of like bringing in like this sort of over umbrella of we have emotions.

Yeah.

Our emotions are affected by our hormones. And what is your baseline? What is normal for you? And what are signs that there may be a message in those symptoms for what needs healing and how?

Mm-hmm. I like that you highlight this because I think it's really important that we acknowledge these gender differences do exist between ovary owners and the people who are blessed with testes and said there are these differences that exist. And I think a huge disservice. And really, I do want to honor that there are women in the generation before us who had to struggle in a different kind of way. And they still— these physicians are out there being like, if you tell women that hormones affect their mood, then that's, that's on par with hysteria. And that is a disservice to them because it's hurting them. And you— And I'm like, I hear you that you had different struggles. And yet That morphed into, you know, really a different— it is the patriarchy. It's in the same vein in which it morphed into people saying, you know, so my toddler's really into Frozen right now. And so I'm like, I can't help but think about Elsa, but like, don't let it show. Like, never let them see you cry. Like, you have to be strong and put it on all the time. And my hormones, like, they, you know, they have no influence and no power over me. And it's a weird thing for doctors to say that because, you know, at the same time, they'll— if you are having those kinds of issues, they'll put you on birth control pills. And if you're on the pill and you have emotions, they're like, well, it couldn't be the pill because it can't be hormones. It's a very confusing thing to navigate as women. But I think we've done a huge disservice in not acknowledging that our experience is different. Our hormones do dictate how we feel and how we go about in this world. And that is not to say that you get to use your hormones as an excuse to be a total jerk. No, it's not that. It is that if you are noticing that your hormones do make you feel like a total jerk, let's do something about it. Like, that's interesting data that we can be neutral about and decide to make changes for, rather than being like, oh, if I say anything about this, you know, people are going to think I'm weaker because I'm a woman. As we've come to understand it, and as I have said since I ever started my career in wellness, like 20 years ago, your hormones are made to give you superpowers. It is obvious that that is how hormones operate. And if they make you feel like a supervillain, then friend, we got to talk because there are solutions that you can employ. Oh my God,

I

love it. Yes, it's so good. It's so good. Yeah, the new— I feel like the new wave of feminism is acknowledging that yes, we are actually different from men, um, and we can still do all of the things that men can do. Um, but yeah, I think the, the, the old wave of feminism, they, they did have different challenges. And it was like, we have to prove that we can be just as, quote unquote, good as men at all of these different things. And so that was definitely part of it. And now it's like, okay, we've proven it, we can do all of the things. Let's also acknowledge that we are different and we have superpowers that men don't have. Yeah. And there's differences between all women and stuff as well. And we can acknowledge that our hormones impact all sorts of different things. Absolutely. And that can be a great thing.

Yeah. I saw an advertisement for birth control pills, and it was a company promoting continuous birth control. And they actually said, skip your period and keep up with the men, like, at work. And, like, they positioned the whole thing of, like, basically suppress your hormones so you can be more like a man. and can be competitive in that way. And what's interesting is that I'm like, I can tell you right away that that person is likely a boomer. Like, that's the generation that they're in. But what we see is that millennials, Gen Z, and bet your bottom dollar Gen Alpha is going to be on that as well, do not want to keep up with a male counterpart, keep up with this hustle culture. I mean, that's what essentially you're telling women is that because you get a little tired, you know, a couple of days before your period and maybe you feel less productive, Let's just suppress you altogether because go capitalism, we should keep you productive 24/7. And that I see a lot of people are rejecting that mindset altogether, but also rejecting that just because you were born with ovaries, there's something inherently wrong with you that you have to medicate yourself away. It's not just— it's not just like symptom management. The marketing around this is literally that Your ovaries are problematic. Just your natural nature, your state of being is problematic. Your hormone cycle, that's wrong. Shut it down so that you can keep up with the male counterpart, which cycles on a 24-hour, you know, daily rhythm, so to speak. You know, there's a great analogy that talks about how women are the moon and men are the sun. Men rise and fall with their hormones. They are cyclical on a daily basis, whereas women, we have that roughly lunar cycle, right? That 29-ish day cycle where we follow the ebbs and flow of the moon. And it feels— a lot of women, they really resonate with that moon cycle because it feels a lot like that. There is this growing phase, there is this contracting phase. And that is even something that we see modern medicine be like, you are a whack job and too woo-woo if this, if this kind of thing resonates with you. I think we need to hold a lot more space for women to just be and to embrace their nature and who they are and to celebrate it, but also to allow them to connect to nature or whatever analogies they like without being constantly criticized by people who are like, there's no science for the things you're saying. And I hate to break it to those people, but if you wait around long enough, science will always validate women's lived experiences in their body. And I ain't got time You ain't got time. Nobody has time to wait around for a damn study to finally be funded. And then it comes out 20 years later and doctors finally accept it 40 years later. I might be pushing daisies in the next 40 years. Like, praise I don't, but I might be. So why am I going to sit here and wait for a scientific study to tell me that what I'm experiencing is true and real?

Not to mention the fact that doing the, like, saying like, oh, that's woo-woo, saying like all of these things, that totally discounts all of the traditional wisdoms from like around the world that has shown us that in fact this is the way that we are and it has done so much for us for thousands and thousands of years.

Western medicine is the absolute most culturally disrespectful practice, I swear. Like, as I think about things, I'm like, This is the most culturally disrespectful practice in which Western medicine— it is fine to say, hey, we actually don't have any studies or scientific data to support this. However, to just flippantly dismiss it and not ask like, where does this come from? What's going on? It is very disrespectful to many cultures. And, you know, one thing I think about is acupuncture and how so much stuff in acupuncture has now been validated. But 20 years ago it was completely crazy, right? We think about yogic practices like the yogi breathing. That is something that has been practiced forever. And now science is like, there's this thing called the vagus nerve. And actually this deep breath and emphasizing the exhale, like it is so nourishing not only to the parasympathetic nervous system, but to your cardiovascular health, to your gut health, to your mood overall. And that is the thing that I think Western medicine Sometimes it forgets its place in science because science is about staying curious, staying open, and really staying neutral. Not completely like, well, nobody's proved that yet, so therefore, you know, you're wrong. It's a, that's interesting. Tell me more about it. I'd love to see the data when we explore this further in science.

Oh, I love that. That's such a, such a switch in perspective. That's so good.

And I know Hadley, you're eating this up because Hadley studies Ayurveda. And so, so that's like 2,000 plus turmeric

tea right here, friend.

Oh my gosh, I love that.

I have my matcha with my—

I have my matcha. Cheers. Cheers.

We love matcha. That green tea is so excellent at supporting and protecting the ovaries. So everybody listening, If you want to live long and prosper, friends, it is all about those antioxidants because those are going to protect the ovaries. And we know green tea—if you're not drinking green tea, get on that boat because it can help prevent things like hair loss. We all love that. You want better hair, better skin, better nails, you know, better appearance overall. And in addition to that, you know, the things that keep the ovaries healthy—that's what it's going to help. Extend our lifetime of ovulating and of producing hormones. And we know that once we drop off in menopause, it's a wah-wah kind of moment because now the risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, bone health, even our gut microbiome, it plummets when estrogen plummets. And green tea can support microbial health and estrogen production and estrogen health as well.

That's such an amazing hack inserted right in there. That's made me so happy. Hadlee and I love to have actionables. It's like, okay, when we finish this conversation, what is the one thing I can do today? So if that's like all y'all get listening to this conversation, get on the green tea.

Mm-hmm.

I wanted to talk about that kind of juxtaposition between what you were describing in the modern medicine approach to women and how it can create this This almost moral injury.

Oh, yeah.

For us. And I, I've been doing a lot of EMDR, and there's one patient in particular who comes up, and we're doing EMDR with her, and her main concern is she has really, really awful panic and anxiety. And so EMDR is a form of therapy that it's been around since the '80s. That, of course, was made fun of by the medical institution for years.

And then as soon as some science comes out, they're like, no, we've always recommended this. We are the experts in this. Oh, exactly. Like, they like Bogart it. Sit down.

Yeah. So they were— there's exactly— she like turned down enough studies. And it was founded by a woman, so that makes it like extra special and cool.

Oh yeah, that makes it extra woo, right?

It was extra woo-woo, witchy. And so it's, it's now like the number one form of therapy used for really severe trauma. They use it for the Veterans Association. That's neither here nor there. But with this patient, we've been working with her horrible anxiety and her panic, and then there's just this suicidal despair that comes in. She's like, I don't know where this is coming from. And so we've been working through it kind of layer by layer, doing this trauma work, and it, it's kind of come to a head where the words that came to mind are moral injury, where she believed she was programmed, she was taught that she has original sin. And not only does she have original sin because she's a sinful human and God is going to smite her because of her sin, but also because she's a woman. Yeah. And a woman's job is to X, Y, and Z. And so then it started to create this from the get-go, this divide between her mind and her body. And so then when she would have menstrual issues, there was shame, there was pain and cramps. So my body's out to get me. And so we've had generations of women who have othered themselves from themselves. And I, I really feel like you touched on that in some really beautiful ways in your book. And I was hoping to hear you speak about it a little bit more.

Well, religion aside, I think that we all get this message. So some, you know, it's easy for people to jump on and say, well, religion is really problematic. Yeah, some religions are problematic. Some schools of thought and some circles are always problematic in anything that we're talking about. But we— I talk about that initially in the introduction of the book, of the— from the moment we're taught about our body, it comes from a place of shame. And if it wasn't your parents, then it's someone at school. And if it wasn't there, then it's commercials on TV. There's media. Like, there are all of these ways that we are inundated with messages that we should be ashamed of our body. And why is that? Because feeling deep shame about your body is a really easy way to get you to buy something, right? This is like really the drive so much in our— in the marketing of our society. And so, you know, sometimes that shame is getting you to buy into an ideology, buy into a certain practice, or buy a certain product so that you no longer feel that shame. Let's say douching. As an example, it is— okay, doctors are out there all day, every day. We're like, don't douche. Nobody is owning the fact that doctors are the problem why everyone ever got started douching. Okay. And I do talk about that in the book. I think it is highly problematic in medicine when we do not acknowledge the harm we have caused and that we are now making up for that and apologizing for that because it's very confusing to the person and it eats away at trust. I think Now more than ever, we see a major distrust in medicine. And what I see and hear from doctors, whether it's in person, online conferences where I'm speaking, is they feel the distrust is coming from influencers. It's coming from here. It's coming. And I'm like, it's you. It's like, hi, I'm the problem. The problem's me, right? Like, it is us. What is your relationship with, like, the patient? How are you showing up online? How are you showing up? In this world, people didn't come to distrust medicine because of influencers. The distrust is before influencers ever stepped on the scene because of the dismissal and the shame that doctors have also put on women about their body. And that is just something that there is so much to learn about being a doctor. And I'm really grateful that in my education, like, we had to unpack some of that stuff and work on our own baggage so we didn't bring that into the patient. But that's not happening in every training. And, you know, I understand that like there's so much to learn and know that like it's, it's hard to pack in everything. So I want people to understand that you have to do a lot of, of baggage sorting, right? You have to kind of be like, what's their stuff and what's my stuff? And sort that out and understand. And if that's their stuff, throw it in the front yard and light it on fire. Like, just get rid of it. There's actually a visualization practice that I will use with patients sometimes. I call it the David Bowie bubbles because I'm a Labyrinth fan. And if you remember, he had those bubbles that are like those ball— those crystal balls that he would spin and he would put things in them and then he would blow blow, like just, whew, they were gone. Uh, and so what I will tell people is just like, if that's their stuff, imagine a bubble outside of you and just imagine putting it in the bubble, putting in the bubble. And then you give a nice little blow, like you're blowing bubbles and you blow it away and it goes off into the atmosphere and it's far enough from you, you blow it up, blow it up. Like it is gone. It is in pieces. It cannot be a part of you anymore. And that might sound, you know, kind of, people might be like, that sounds kind of crazy. We know visualization work, it works. And to have that idea of like, this is being pulled away from you and I'm sending it away. Now, the stuff that is your baggage that you're like, yeah, I've internalized these things, that is where EMDR, cognitive behavioral therapy— like, you have to have a mental health provider. And I will say, I want everybody to really understand there is absolutely no shame in having a mental health provider. And if you have any kind of chronic condition like autoimmunity, which we know primarily affects women, endometriosis, adenomyosis, PCOS, like all of these conditions that predominantly affect women and are chronic conditions, we know they have a mental health component with them. And I will also say that's in part because doctors have created that in their relationship with the patient. So as I take one example of PCOS, Almost every woman with PCOS has had a comment about weight. Even if your weight is ideal, doctors will say to you, well, you know, you're not fat like I would expect, so it can't be PCOS. Like, what? What? No, wrong. And then there's, you know, women who are overweight because that is the— that is a symptom. That's a hallmark symptom of PCOS. But their doctors say things like, your weight caused your PCOS. So you're blaming That's blaming. Eat right and exercise. Eat less and move more. Doctors saying those things create eating disorders within the PCOS community. PCOS community has a high rate of eating disorders. And when it comes to women, it is not a matter of just eat less, move more in every situation. Yes, sometimes we have to like make those shifts. So I don't want anyone to think I'm anti-exercise or I don't believe that caloric deficit can result in weight loss. But so often what I find is what we actually need to shift to is moving in a way that feels joyful, moving in a way that builds muscle, moving in a way that is going to encourage health in your body and optimization, and then eating nutrient-dense. When we start to shift it in that way, when you tell someone to eat nutrient-dense, the calories start to come down. You don't even have to talk about those because what are you eating? More plants, more fiber, more quality protein, healthy fats, getting rid of ultra-processed foods. You don't even have to talk so much about like cut out Doritos and cut out Coca-Cola. You need to just talk about what do we need to add in? And I go through a lot of that in the book of like, how do we build that nutrient density? How do we build it up in a way that is not going to just serve our overall body, but it's going to send the signals that we are safe in our environment? And when we have that, our hormones will start to shift naturally to find their equilibrium. So I just said a whole lot of stuff because I felt like the question was really big you were asking me, but I'm going to shut up now and let you talk as well.

I love it so much. That's a big piece of what I do with my clients is there is helping them with their relationship with food. And your perspective is so refreshing because I feel like there are 2 different camps where one is like, toxic diet culture mentality of you need to do all these things to make your body change. And then there's the other side where it's like, just don't care about food, don't care about nutrition, and then you just feel like crap, right? And so, you blend it so beautifully in the book and in what you just said of like, no, we can still want to be healthy. And really, it comes from a place of Like loving ourselves and loving our bodies rather than needing our bodies to be a different way and doing it because of that. So I just love it. It's so good.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

I want to talk about reprogramming here for a minute if you two are down.

Let's do it.

So I think about how from the commercials, from the messages from our caretakers, from doctors, there's been this programming. And we know from studies into neuroscience how that programming can get stored in non-logical, nonverbal parts of the brain, the nervous system, even the gut microbiome. We saw this with The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk. We see this with Peter Levine's work. And so we're learning as our ability to catch up with the lived experience of humans is that the body holds on to these messages, the messages that we've been programmed with. I love the visualization of the David Bowie bubbles. And what I'm—

I would probably can't say that. I'm like, I, I'm probably gonna get in trouble. David Bowie, whoever owns the trademark or whatever on David Bowie, is going to be like, she can't call it that. I'll come up with something else. As you say it back to me, I'm like, I'm gonna get in trouble. Uh, but you know, if you're old like me, then you know about labyrinths, and you probably were obsessed with it. Okay. Anyhow, go ahead.

I was too.

We'll call him David Baby Bubbles.

So what I'm wondering about is, is reprogramming and repatterning my relationship with my body. And so I'm thinking about some of the writing that you did in your book about sexuality, self-love, and starting to maybe befriend the body where we can bridge that gap between like, it's my body versus my mind. Or my body versus me, and my body's in rebellion and creating these symptoms because it's broken. And, and then looking at it from the paradigm that you're describing is that it's data. We can look at it as objective data of what needs healing and how, and then start to recreate a new and loving relationship. And so all that being said, I wanted to— I want to hear you talk about orgasm. It's like straight for it.

Like, you're like all the reprogramming and orgasm. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm like, there's a science behind it. Like we can do self, like Hadley teaches a lot about putting your hand on yourself, your shoulder and like, ah, self-touch. But I'm like, let's go straight for the orgasm. Like, what do we got?

Yeah. Well, you wanna talk about it?

I wanna know about how orgasm is beneficial. And how orgasm can actually be a part of healing the brain, the body.

First thing we need to recognize is that achieving an orgasm requires mindfulness. It's an absolute act of mindfulness. And there is research out there telling us that mindfulness is so good for your health, great for your nervous system. I will tell you, it's good for your hormones as well. So if you can't hit that O, That is sometimes what we think about is, you know, are we— is our mind distracted? So I write about neurodivergent brains in the book. So ADHD and autism primarily. There's more data and more people speaking up about their sexual experience in those 2 communities. And with that, so we might have a distracted mind. I'm gonna give tips of things that you can do if you have a distracted mind and you're not able to achieve an orgasm. There is also a phenomenon known as spectating. So spectating is exactly what it sounds like. You basically, you step out of your body and you take a seat on the bleachers and you're just watching yourself in the moment. This is, you know, part of what we've been talking about, how society has programmed us to feel shame about our body. What this might look like for somebody in this position right now. Can they see my cellulite? Oh gosh, I can feel my tummy rolls. Are they paying attention to my tummy rolls? You know, I made this weird noise or my body made this weird noise or, oh, like, what is that sound going on? Okay. Firstly, sex is messy. It's embarrassing. And everybody has that experience. And key for everyone to understand, if anyone is lucky enough to have sex with you, they are not paying attention to all of those things that you are paying attention So that can pull somebody out of feeling aroused, feeling like— so arousal is the tissue response, feeling out of the, you know, the desire mode. So their libido might be dropping. They're no longer in the mood, and it can stop them from achieving an orgasm. Now, when it comes to intimacy, I want people to understand, as I talk about in the book, the research surveys people. Think about the best sex of your life. If you're listening right now, think about the best sex of your life. And, I'm going to tell you, when the researchers ask, tell me what made it the best sex of your life, people report it was intimacy, vulnerability, connection. Orgasm is way down the list. It is not at the top of the list. So, sometimes we are worried about, am I going to orgasm? Am I taking too long to orgasm? Oh my God, am I going to get there? And that'll keep you from orgasming. Like, how maddening is that? But also understand that the orgasm— well, I can tell you a lot of benefits about it, and I will if people are like, get there, please. I want you to understand that even if you don't orgasm, even the act of that intimacy, that vulnerability, and that mindfulness is good for your nervous system. It is good for endorphin release, oxytocin release. But however, if you hit that O, You are going to have even more of an oxytocin release. Oxytocin, people often think like breastfeeding, petting dogs, orgasms. It's all about connection. Yes. And it also sees cortisol and is like, smack it right out of the park. Like, we ain't even trying to hear this pro-aging at a cellular level kind of signal right now, hating on our memory, our mood, our hormones, our body. Like, oxytocin is going to come in and really protect you against all of that. We also have the endorphin release that can help people with migraines, that can help people with period pain. Interestingly enough, having period sex, there have been some studies showing that it can shorten the length. So the duration of your period, not in a way that is bad, in a way that maybe it is making the uterine contraction more effective and efficient so that you don't have to bleed as long. So there is a bunch of information about period sex. If anybody's like, yuck, that's okay. A lot of people feel that way. And if anyone's like, yes, I know about this, well, yeah, both of you take a deeper dive and read about that. So when it comes to orgasms as well, you know, everything that we are talking about here, I want people to understand it also comes back and it connects to pelvic floor health. It connects to the nervous system innervation of the clitoris. So a use it or lose it kind of like situation, right? Where— and it's not necessarily that you're going to, like, completely lose it if you're not having orgasms or having sex, but it is reinforcing that neuronal pathway. And as I say all of that, I want people to understand that clitoral stimulation is the primary way in which women achieve orgasms. And there is a lot of shame about not achieving an orgasm via vaginal penetration. One, there's dumb men on podcasts and on the internet really telling on themselves about how little they know about a woman's body, like they are some kind of expert about their partner's body when their partner's saying, that's not it. No, sir, sit down, be humble. The other thing that we see a lot of is people taking sex ed and there is no talk about the clitoris. It's all centered on penile penetration, vaginal penetration by a penis. And that's problematic as well, because that's very male-centered sex ed. Even the sex ed that we receive as women that's supposed to be about our body is still through the lens of men. Problematic. And especially when you consider that the majority of states don't even offer comprehensive, medically accurate sex ed. We know from what women report that roughly about 18% of women can achieve an orgasm with vaginal penetration alone. And that is based on anatomy. It's not based on anything you can control or anything you can do. So clitoral stimulation, yes. And understanding that certain parts of your menstrual cycle may be harder to achieve an orgasm or maybe easier can also be helpful. And I talk about all of that in the book. I take you through a whole program of understanding your body. And in that 28-day program, I even have exercises of helping you get comfortable in your body and slowly chipping away at the body image issues that all of us have accumulated through our lifetime.

I'm writing this down. This is so good. So, the 28-day program helping us get comfortable in our bodies and to really chip away, like we were talking about, like really to work at deprogramming that which is underneath creating shame or anxiety or Whatever it is, and recreating it so that it's what you want and more in line with your badass power as a woman. Yeah.

And physical touch in general, even if you're— even if it's, you know, not thinking about it sexually or— well, it's all sensual because it's literally your senses. But physical touch helps us to actually connect with our bodies and cultivate a relationship with our bodies that is more respectful. And so then we can take that to the next level. By, you know, with masturbation and different things to, you know, really heal that, that rift that we've had that so almost all women that I've ever talked to have with their bodies.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So good. I know we also wanted to talk a little bit about how orgasming helps with anxiety. So could you talk a little bit about how it can help with our mental health? I mean, and mental health as a whole, not even just anxiety. But I would love to hear you talk a little bit more about that too.

So sex can help with anxiety when you're with the right partner, or maybe by yourself. If we think about when you're having sex, and the next time that you are, I want people to pay attention to their breathing. Your breathing alone shifts. So when we find ourselves in an anxious state, we can be breathing really high up. When we are sexually active in whatever capacity it is, we tend to start breathing deeper down. That's going to stimulate the vagus nerve. That is going to help with anxiety. Then, you know, there is the fact that what are you paying attention to? It's the only thing that you can really pay attention to, or hopefully it's the only thing you're paying attention to. Which, by the way, if you are someone who gets distracted during sex, that is normal. And I recommend that rather than being like, oh God, I'm distracted again. Why can't I just get it right? Why can't I just focus? Just being like, well, that's an interesting thought. Let's just like park that. Let's park it away. Or maybe in your head you're just like, I'm gonna put that sticky note on the wall. We'll come back to that later. That's interesting, but let's just move on. When you do it in that way, it's so much easier for your body to just release and move away from that. Now, we were talking about the orgasm. There is a hormonal cascade that happens when you have an orgasm that absolutely can help with mitigating the stress hormones that could be behind your anxiety. I want people to understand that if you are someone who is not in the mood when you are stressed, that is normal. If you are someone who is really in the mood when you're stressed, That's also normal. And I think the latter, somehow biologically, their body's like, I know and I understand that this is actually going to help with stress. I'm going to have connection. I'm going to have that intimate moment with an individual. I'm going to have touch. So even if you're not having sex, we all know a hug can help anxiety. A hug can help your mental health. So now we get naked and we are pressed against someone else, we can be co-regulating in that way. Then there is just things that start to feel good. Now the brain is like, I need to focus on this. And sometimes I want people to also understand, sometimes you won't be in the mood until things start moving. And then you're like, yes, I am into this. When you are distracted by anxiety, by stress, It is normal for the nervous system not to pick up what your partner's putting down. And that once the— once you start moving, moving the train along, I like to call it, that is when the body and the brain starts syncing up and they're like, okay, okay, like we are into this. But certainly I wouldn't tell people like, oh, if you're anxious, then like you need to have sex. Uh, that is gonna make you more stressed and more anxious. But it is something that you're like, you know, if you're like, oh, I'm having trouble falling asleep at night, it may be helpful in that way to have that intimate moment. And as I talk about in the chapter about sex of all kinds, it's so funny. Somebody wrote me and in that chapter they were like, it's called Sex of All Kinds. And like, it's just all about sex. And I didn't even want to read it. And I will say, as an author, it's really hard to name things. It's really hard to like to convey things. It's called Sex of All Kinds. The chapter actually opens about pain with sex and why it's Sex of All Kinds is to help people understand. 'Cause there is a lot of shame, you know, if you have vulvodynia, vaginismus, endometriosis, conditions like, uh, you know, even fibroids, things that can make you feel uncomfortable with penetration to understand that there's other kinds of sex. They are sex. You are still a whole and complete sexual person if that's what you're doing. And if you're satisfied with that, that is completely normal. So in that chapter, I'm just talking about other ways for you to enjoy and have pleasure. And then as a doctor, also asking a lot of common questions I get that people get worried about these different kinds of acts. And like, it's so interesting to me how, you know, people will be so worried that like, well, I just was really into making out and I didn't feel like doing anything else and like, is something wrong with me? And it's like, it's like whoever, you know, told people that like what, what you were, you know, really excited about as a teenager is inappropriate to be excited about in your 40s or be satisfied with is absolutely ridiculous. And yet it exists. And it's just, it's again, this bar of like, it's never enough until you achieve what other, other, not even necessarily other people are putting on you, but just As collectively society as a whole, we're like, this is the ultimate. This is what it has to be. We call it foreplay because that's what comes first. And it's not good enough unless you actually have penetrative sex. And yet there are couples that are totally satisfied and happy with foreplay, and it was a great experience for them. And if that's true for you, then that's completely normal. And in that chapter, I really wanted to help people understand that. aspect of their health while also dissecting out what's normal, what's not when it comes to pain. What could it be? How to get that diagnosis, how to get your doctor to listen to you, and what to do right now to start getting yourself out of pain and feeling a lot more comfortable. Women's pain is diagnosed at an astronomical rate, in my opinion. They're called, you know, you know, malingering. They're sent away having heart attacks, having major, you know, strokes and things like that and just being told they're just being extra. It's just too much. And if that is how it looks with a heart attack and with a stroke, you better believe it's a hell of a lot worse when you say, I'm having pain with sex. And I hear far too often doctors are like, drink some wine, get some lube, lay there. What? How is that what we're telling women?

Yeah, it's outrageous, right? We've made a few strides from hysteria where the uterus is like wandering up to your head and giving you headaches. But not, not very far from it.

Right. It's definitely like echoing the hysteria conversation for sure. Yeah. Oh, so good. It's so good. And it's, it's, you know, what I'm hearing is that orgasming or not even orgasm, but just a situation where you are in like a loving relationship and like in an intimate setting with a partner that you feel safe with. Mm-hmm. Or with yourself can be really helpful for anxiety. And at the same time, it's kind of a catch-22 because if you do have anxiety, then sometimes that can make it so that it's harder to actually get into a place where you feel like receptive and wanting to, to go further. And so is there anything, you know, as far as hormones and affecting anxiety that you want to touch on that we can kind of learn from to take some actionables away from there so that we can even get to a place where we feel like we are able to connect in that way.

Progesterone. Let's talk progesterone. Most common time that you see anxiety, at least I see it in my practice, is leading up to your period. And so as progesterone declines, as it should, we can feel a lot more anxious. Now, progesterone has a metabolite That stimulates the GABA receptor in our brain that helps us feel chilled out and calm. GABA pumps the brakes. And so if we're not getting that GABA stimulation, we can feel a lot more anxious. This is something that we can see at any stage of our life. It is far worse as we enter perimenopause for a lot of people. So if you're listening to this and you're under 35, please start handling your anxiety now. And that is not just fixing your progesterone, that is also getting— building your toolkit. I talk about these things in the book of what you can be doing to help with anxiety. Now, why is perimenopause such a critical period? Because perimenopause does not start with a decline of estrogen. It starts with the decline of progesterone. So that is the main ovarian hormone that starts this decline. And it begins like this. Only through ovulation do we enter into a phase where our progesterone production goes up. That's because in the ovary, what's left behind is a temporary endocrine structure known as the corpus luteum that produces progesterone. That corpus luteum stops doing its job as well. Now we start to get those wild PMS symptoms, feeling like our mood is out of control. We can't sleep at night before our period. That's what we see really starting in early perimenopause. As we get to later perimenopause, And now the period is like dodging you. It's like, come and go. Will it be here? Won't it be here? That is because ovulatory dysfunction has set in. And, you know, I hesitate in saying dysfunction because it is what it's supposed to be, but it feels very dysfunctional in the sense that some months you're going to ovulate, you're going to make that, that, you know, corpus luteum, you're going to make that progesterone. And other months you are not going to do that. And so as that happens, We are not getting that progesterone to come in. So that doesn't challenge estrogen at the receptor level. So we get this relative estrogen dominant state where there's more estrogen until we get to that really late phase of perimenopause and into menopause. Does estrogen be like, I'm out? Like, bye, we're not doing this anymore. So with that, that progesterone playing with you, that is part of the reason why we see such a high rate of the diagnosis of mental health disorders in late stage perimenopause. In fact, you know, when it comes to depression, that can be roughly, you know, it can be as high as 38% of women getting that diagnosis. That is the time period in a woman's life where she is more likely to be prescribed an antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication. And I'm not saying those don't have a time and a place, but what I am saying is rather than jumping on something that has a big side effect profile and that sometimes women say, I feel completely numb on, Why don't we start with lower-level interventions there? So in the early perimenopause, we can be bringing in vitamin B6, vitamin C, herbs like Vitex, and even bringing in adaptogenic herbs which can support adrenal health. These are some of the things that you'll find. I have a formula called Balance Women's Hormone Support, and it's to help with just that, like helping the ovaries function at their best. Now, as you get into that late stage perimenopause, if I could give you something that would make your ovaries work for life, like you better believe I'd have that patent and I'd be doing that already, but I can't. So it's progesterone. And specifically, if you have anxiety, it's oral progesterone is where we want to start. Typical dose is going to be 200 milligrams of an oral progesterone. However, you might need a dose more like 50 or 100 milligrams. And I say that because if you experience side effects like you wake up feeling groggy, you may need to take your dose earlier at night. You know, if you're one of those people trying to sleep 6 hours, like, you're gonna wake up groggy, and it might not be that progesterone dose. It is that— could you please get 8 hours in your bed, maybe 9, depending on how your day's been, what you've been up to? So progesterone therapy needs to be considered. And what we understand is that progesterone even estrogen and testosterone, if we bring those in during perimenopause, not only may we prevent depression and anxiety, but it may also help those people already experiencing it. And so I want people to understand that we want to work on those pieces. We want to work on supporting our adrenal health, our gut health, our lifestyle. All of these things play a role. But before you jump to a mood-modulating medication, maybe we want to consider hormones first because maybe you won't need it. Or maybe you, you, you feel better and, you know, all this stuff I'm talking about gets you, you know, gets you 90% of the way. And then you do need a little bit of a medication. Maybe you experience PMDD, for example, and you need a little more. You need a little help just before your period's arriving. Like, there's different ways that we can go about it. And I, for one, I'm very much about integrative medicine. And I say that from the lens of, I want to offer my patients a buffet. We've got the buffet. When you go to a buffet, you don't have to eat everything that's there. And you don't have to— you don't have to let them serve you what you don't want. You can say, here's the buffet. And you can put stuff on your plate and decide you want it. And you don't put it back. Okay. But you don't double dip in people, but you can decide you don't want it. Let's be a lot more flexible in making very much these individualized decisions and supporting our patients in their bio-individuality and respecting what they say they do and don't want to do and what works for them and what doesn't work for them. And before we jump to like, you know, big guns of everything, always ask the question, is there something more simple? that could be done here that actually is going to affect them in a more positive way overall and has the least amount of side effects.

I love that. In Ayurveda, the, the, there's like a quote that's like, the more complicated a situation is in your health, the more you need to go back to basics, the more you need to— the solution needs to be simpler, actually. And that's That's so good. I love it. Well, what I love about that— Amazing. Yeah.

In the context of anxiety is that if all of this stuff is going on and then what you dump on people is like, do 100 things, that's not usually gonna work. And this is where I always encourage people, there's a lot of true information on the internet, on social media, coming from your doctor, coming from me. Always ask yourself, is it true for me though? Is this actually true for me? Is this my experience? Because it's very easy to be like, I love that. That sounds so great that this person, my bestie, is getting these results, but it doesn't work for you. And then you're like, something's wrong with me. I must be broken. I can't. And the really, the thing we have to do is stand back and say, you know what? That was true for them. That's not true for me. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it wrong. It just makes it something that isn't working for me. And I need to do something different. And when it comes to anxiety, I you know sometimes on social media I will post something and say like here's three places to start. Here's three places to start today, and I make it super easy and super actionable so people can just take one step because that's what health is—one step every day. Don't lose momentum. And there will be people in the comments and be like, but you should also do all these other things, and you should do this, and you should do that. How? Oh my God! I can't believe you didn't say magnesium. And I'm like, dude, I say magnesium so many freaking times. Sometimes I'm like people are sick of hearing me say magnesium, and I'm like you're missing the point here. Is that the point is I want to give something simple. Just take this step. Do this one thing and congratulate yourself in doing that rather than being like, hey, here's 25 things that can help. Do them now. Like, that's overwhelming. I'm overwhelmed saying that.

I love that. Is, is that like, what's that one thing? And you've given us some really good kind of one things for people today. It's like they're getting these ideas. And so, you know, when you finish listening to this episode, is really kind of distill down what may be the one main thing for you. And so I'm sure that people are going to want to learn more about you, and I'm super excited about this book. And so if you guys are— you guys haven't read Is This Normal? Judgment-Free Straight Talk About Your Body by Dr. Jillian Brighton, like, buy the book. It's so good. It's on Audible too, right, Hadlee? You can read it.

I listened to it on Audible. And you—

2 weeks, 2 weeks into studio. And oh my God, let me, let me tell you, like the— I, I do international speaking. I teach a lot of medical providers. I lecture the general public. I have a whole like hot water, lemon, honey before I get on the stage. My assistant, when she's with me, like I'm always so blessed because she's like keeping that flowing so that I could keep talking. Because whenever I'm at conferences, people are also coming up to me. I just spoke at SIETE and I— but by the time the 2 days was over, I was losing my voice. And I was like, oh man. And my assistant was like, you should have just like stayed in the green room and not talked to people and save your voice. And I'm like, okay, people bought tickets and flew all the way there to see me. Like, I'm going to hide from a green room and be like, the only access you get to me is on a stage and not meet the people who like are helping me do the work that I do. And like, I wouldn't be here doing all of this if people weren't supporting me. So no, I lost my voice. Big deal. But the book, just anybody like this tip was like actually golden, was dropping Ricola into hot water and drinking that throughout the entire time. Yeah. So I read the book, but also I want people to know, well, you know, the book's been on sale on Amazon, like check Amazon. They've been hitting it like with sales. off and on. The more people that go and buy it, they then like discount it more. It's kind of crazy. But also, if you're like, look, I don't have a budget to go buy a book right now, library, check out your local library. Like, and if they don't have it, request it. And I think that is just one really powerful way that you can help make sure that like this book also shows up for others who, you know, might be perusing the library. So I know there's a lot of authors out there that are always like, no, buy the book, because that's what my publishers want. And my publisher's going to be like, why is she telling people not to buy the book? But also, I want them to be accessible. So there's also the library. Know that there's the library as well. Oh,

I love that.

Love that. I love your heart, because really, truly, you care about women. You believe in the message, and you've written some amazing books. And yet there's a bigger meaning to all of it, which I love, that your heart is staying grounded in

Totally. Yeah, I loved Beyond the Pill. I was— I wasn't even on the pill, but I wanted to read it for my clients, and it was such a good read. And this was such a good read listening to it too. For anyone that hasn't had Audible, you can get like your first Audible book for free, and you could also listen to it on there. And the way that you read it is so good. It's like fun. It's fun to listen to. And it's like, you know, it's like science, like major science stuff, but

Oh man, I appreciate that because there were times in the studio, like my producer, like I would be like, wait, wait, wait, I said that, that's not how I would say that. I was like reading it and trying to be like, I am an author, this is how you read books. And then I was like, no, no, no, I have to read that differently. Like that doesn't sound like that. Also for people, um, listen, there was a, as an author, I do read my reviews even though you'll You'll see authors always say, don't read your reviews. How I knew that this book was absolutely needed, like I listened to women, imagine that. But I also saw all of the reviews about Beyond the Pill. And I was like, wow, we, we need, we need this book to really fill in the gaps around this. But I did read this one Goodreads and the gal was like, I listened to the audiobook and I couldn't get over that the way she says feel is like fill. You don't even know how many times I do say fill. F-I-L-L is how I pronounce F-E-E-L. Okay. My mother-in-law is a— she's a speech pathologist and she is like, you know, once upon a time when you were a child, no one ever corrected you. And I'm like, look, I got a neurodivergent brain and like the fact that I even speak words and they make sense, I am very grateful for this. This person Was like I couldn't get over it, and I'm like if there was anything that took the longest, it is how I pronounce feel and how I pronounce alcohol. It's al. I say alcohol. Yeah, and it's alcohol. Alcohol. My like tongue does he? Yeah. Well, it's very funny though because like I look at like also the fact that like I come from this big history. Hispanically family and listening to like them, how they say things and stuff. And I'm just like, well, I'm not fluent in Spanish. The Spanglish did hit me and there are definitely different ways that I say things. But anyhow, that Goodreads made me giggle so, so hard. I had just the best laugh about it because I was like, even, even every time my podcast producer would be like, nope, stop, do it again. Do it again. Do it again. And I was like, I'm going to come out of this. I'm going to talk right. My mouth will move pretty. It'll happen. And it didn't. It apparently did not. It did not in fact change anything about me. So there's that. And that's my quirk. And I could go my whole life—

I love that about you.

Being insecure and not speaking on stages and not doing podcasts and not doing my work. Or I could just own the fact that like, listen, my mouth, it just messes some stuff up with my brain. They don't always sync. It's not right. It's not always going to be right. And that's just the way it is.

I feel you.

Well played.

Oh my gosh, you guys, check, check out Dr. Jolene Brighton. She's super active on Instagram. There's tons of stuff. Click on the link in the bio. You can join in all of the things she's got going on. She's amazing supplements and products. couple that she's mentioned today. And Jolene, thank you so much for hanging out with us. This has been a blast. We learned a lot.

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate this conversation.

Absolutely. All right. Thanks for listening to Holistic Airbounce. Y'all, we'll see you next time.

Bye, everyone.