The Panic Reset Protocol | Ep. 116

Hello. Welcome back to the Holistic Inner Balance Podcast. I'm Hadlee of Happy Healthy with Hadlee, and I'm here with Dr. Nicole Kane. And I am so freaking excited for today's topic because today Dr. Kane is going to walk us through Her Panic Proof process. Say that 4 times fast. It is, it is absolutely incredible. I got a little sneak peek into the process, and I'm really excited to have her take you through all of this. And the Panic Proof process comes from Dr. Kamen's book called Panic Proof, which you can get in the show notes. We're going to link it in there. And you guys, I'm so excited for you to read this book. It's going to change your life. So without further ado, let's get into the Panic Proof process.

I'm so happy to be having this conversation with you.

Me too. It's going to be so helpful for everyone.

A lot of people ask me, what can I do to help clear panic or to combat panic or to be free from panic? And I think what's really important is to break that into 2 parts. Number one is how do we address panic in the moment? And then number 2 is what are we going to do over time to help your body be recalibrated so that you no longer have to deal with panic? Mm-hmm. And the Panic Reset is designed for the latter. It's zone of genius is prevention and repatterning the nervous system. So if you struggle with panic, we have a ton of resources for you. Panic Proof talks about all sorts of things that you can do for the moment. And I would encourage you to really dive into that prevention piece where you no longer feel like you're putting out fires to try to stop panic in its tracks, but rather That you no longer are calibrated to experience panic to begin with.

I love it. That's like my passion in life is prevention. It's why I went to school for public health because I was like, oh, they're into prevention here. Let's do that. And I love that you do both in the book because I think giving people that relief is so important, like in-the-moment relief, especially when we're experiencing Anxiety and panic, like, very acutely. Like, we need some of that relief. And so I'm really excited for you to walk through some of that, some of the, like, immediate relief. But then we can also do all of these things to support ourselves, to have it so that it doesn't actually happen over and over and over again anymore. We can break that pattern and we can start to feel more calm, cool, collected, even in those situations that maybe used to cause panic?

Yes, the Panic Reset, it's a 4-step process, and it's based in the research in neuroscience. And so I would love to start by introducing what each of the 4 steps are, and we'll get into a little bit of the neuroscience behind why I have 4 steps. How it's organized that way, and then we can dive into each of those in more detail after. Does that sound all right for you?

That sounds amazing. You know, I love to nerd out on the neuroscience, so I'm really excited for that.

So I love it. Let's nerd out on the science. For starters, it is a 90-day program, and the reason that it's designed to be 90 days or 3 months minimum is because When we're creating a new habit, the brain is trying to decide moment by moment if that new habit, if we're gonna prune that, meaning get rid of that connection, or if we're going to solidify or strengthen or retain that. And so when you learn a new skill, you have a connection that's made. And so we call those synaptic connections. And so these are the, the roads in the brain. They join together. But then if that isn't reinforced, if you're not using that road within about 24 hours of non-use, the brain will get rid of that connection. And so we see that after about 90 days of consecutively 90 days of using those roads, that the brain will create a habit or will become more solidified, and it won't make as much effort at getting rid of it. So it becomes more automatic, more ingrained. And so these habits, these strategies that you're going to start employing, they're going to be a little bit more important that you practice again and again and again in the beginning. But then after the 90 to 120 days, it'll be, it'll be much more automatic. So that's one of the neuroscience reasons for the 90 days.

Well, and I love that because I think a lot of times people think that it's 30 days. And the research just keeps finding that it's actually longer and longer and longer to create an actual habit. So, you know, people are like, oh, if I just do something for 30 days, but then they'll fall back off of it. And so really sticking with it for 90 days. And you know, I'm all about habit automation and like actually automating it so you don't have to think about it anymore. So I love that you bring that into the process, because once you guys— once you get this actually automated, Then it doesn't take up so much space in your brain. It's just something that you do because it's just like part of your identity. It's just like, oh, this is just how I, how I be in my everyday life. So that's like, like I totally nerd out on, on that. I love it so much.

It kind of reminds me of like afterburn when you go and exercise. I go to Orangetheory and they talk about if you could get 12 splat points, then you're going to have afterburn. So like you're You're increasing your fitness while exercising, but when you're in that afterburn, your body is still very metabolically active. And so you're getting the benefit even when you're between exercise sessions. So I think about that with neural reprocessing and reprogramming is when you're doing the work in the moment, yes, you are attaining benefits that are changing your brain, your body. And as you do it more and more often, it's going to start doing the work in the background. Like you were saying, Hadley, it becomes more automatic.

Totally. And then you don't have to have— you don't have like this, the decision fatigue of being like, okay, I need to remember to do this. I need to do this. I need to do this. It's just something that goes on in the background. And then you have more mental capacity for the things that you actually want to be thinking about, right? So yeah, it's awesome. I love it. I love that concept. Okay, so let's get into number 1.

The first step is to calm the nervous system. And when we go into panic, there are a few things that happen that necessitate step 1 being calming the nervous system. And first of which is that your body goes into what's called autonomic arousal. And this refers to a state where your body is either going into fight, flight, freeze, flop, fawn, fracture. It's trying to get you away from the metaphorical tiger. And in that process, different parts of your brain that will enable you to run from the tiger get turned on, and then parts of the brain that may deter you from effectively running from that tiger may get turned off. And so I teach about this in Panic Proof, where the parts of the brain that are involved in fight, flight, freeze are more associated with what's called the default mode network. And so this is like My brain is on autopilot. I'm not even thinking about it. I'm just on, on automatic. Like, I just had to get from the bear. If the tiger's chasing you, you don't want to like psychoanalyze the tiger and its motive. You just get away. And so those parts of the brain kick into action, and this is really largely driven by the amygdala, the emotional center of the brain, that part of the brain that detects and produces fear responses, which then causes a domino effect going down, resulting in stress hormone like cortisol being released and adrenaline kicking up, and then all of those changes in your body. And as a result of that, your logical brain— the— I'm gesturing for those who are listening to the forehead. So this is the part of the brain we refer to as the, the frontal cortex and the prefrontal cortex. And then the center part of the brain. So I'm kind of gesturing to like the hairline. If you part your hair down the middle, the central part of the brain. Bessel van der Kolk refers to this as the mohawk of self-awareness. And so that part of the brain gets turned down or turned off. That part of the brain is responsible for analysis, executive functioning, critical thinking. And when you're running from a tiger, that gets shut down. You're not able to think logically. So that executive control network is offline, and that's driven by your nervous system being in arousal. And so the very first thing that we have to do is we have to calm that nervous system, because by calming the nervous system, you're going to switch out of that autopilot mode, that emotionally reactive mode that's making you feel panicky, and we're going to switch the brain into that executive control, logical, I have agency and rationale and control mode so that you can make choices responding. So that's the first step, is the calming of the nervous system.

I love that. And I think it's so important that we identify that this isn't necessary. This isn't like a bad thing. A lot of times we think like, oh, I need to just be more conscious all the time. And that's not necessarily true. Like we were just talking about, like once you, once you create the neural pathways in your brain to automate the things that you actually want to react with. Like, you, when something happens, you react in a way that you actually want to react in. You can, you can actually automate that. And so it's not that this is a bad thing, that we have this automation process in our brain. This is like actually a really, really good thing. Like, if you were running from a tiger, like, it would be really a beneficial thing. thing. And so I love that you identify that and that it's not like we have to master the brain or whatever. It's really that we're working with the brain and how it functions and everything. So really, really cool.

It's a very honoring process because the person that sat down and tried to psychoanalyze the tiger probably got eaten and didn't pass along that neurological response. As opposed to the other person who's just like, get away from me. And then they survived and reproduced, and then their descendants had that tendency.

Exactly. I love that. Yeah. Step

1 is calming the nervous system, and we can definitely get into strategies for doing that. Is you want to remove that obstacle to your logical brain kicking in. You want to calm the nervous system, get that autonomic arousal back down from more sympathetic fight, flight, freeze into what we call parasympathetic, which is that rest, digest, reproduce kind of chill, calm state. And so the book, we go into strategies for that. We can explore some of that if we have time today. And then step 2 comes next, and this is recruiting and onboarding your wise and analytical mind. So remember, when you're in a state of panic, or you're in a panic activation, that wise analytical mind is getting shut down by the emotional brain. So that default mode network is kicking in. And that executive control network that I have control and agency, that's getting kicked off. And so the next step, now that the nervous system is calm, and that provoking state has been reduced, now we want to actually onboard your logical brain. And there are strategies for turning on those parts of the brain. And so We'll get into these a little bit more later. But one of the things that I like to use with my clients in that moment to like onboard that part of the brain is very much in the moment. Like, what are 3 colors that you can name that you see? What are 3 sounds that you can hear that are around you? And what are 3 things that you can touch? And so it's very much like, I have to think about it. It's right here. It's right now. It's not too complicated. But it's turning on those more wise parts of the brain that's associated with your prefrontal cortex there in the forehead, and then that mohawk of awareness. So that's step 2, is onboarding your wise and analytical mind.

I love it. It's like the ultimate present moment awareness, right? We hear like present moment, present moment. But sometimes when we are just like, oh, I just need to be present, I just need to be present, that it's actually not very tangible. So I love that you're like, no, like, Actually identify what is here in the present moment, like 3 things. And I think that's so incredibly helpful.

And they call it the 333 rule for anxiety. And so it's kind of nice is just to like have that as a reminder. And again, the more that you practice it, you'll notice like, okay, I'm getting stressed, I'm getting activated, I'm noticing signs that I'm going into autonomic arousal. So I need to like Work on bringing that down with the strategies that we're gonna teach. And then you're like, okay, now I need to mindfully, like, just turn on that switch to my analytical wise mind, 333. And so then you're prepared for the 3rd step.

Oh my gosh, it's so good. And now I'm like on the edge of my seat. What is the 3rd step?

I love that because you've read it. You're still on the edge of the seat.

It's so good.

It— I think so. Yeah, it's my favorite.

I know, I know. It's like, I love learning these things from you, like, because you just get so lit up and it's just— it's so fun. It's so fun to learn from you.

Thank you. It's like, it lights me up because it actually works.

Yes.

Like, I see— I'm like, oh my gosh, this is magic. This is like wizardry.

Yes.

I get excited to see other people explore that and have great success. Like, I've had awesome success with my clients over the years with these strategies. And so it's fun to get to chat with all you about it.

Yes. It's so— I love— I just love how tangible it is because I do think that a lot of times it's like there's like, oh, just think different thoughts. Or, you know, there's Like a lot of these strategies are very like thought-based and we can talk more about how that's more of the top-down approach. But I love your bottom-up approach of like, no, like we can, we can take things in our physical reality and make it really super tangible.

So I love the language Hadley's using, insider language here, top-down, bottom-up. And yes, we'll totally explain.

You want to explain what that is?

Top-down is we're thinking about the top of the brain. So if you were to make a fist and put your thumb on the inside of the punching fist. And then this comes from Dan Siegel, by the way, his model of the brain. And so you look at it on the side so that the thumb is facing you, and you look at it on the side. This is like a cross-section of the brain, and your fingers represent the cortex. And this is more like analytical processing, logical. This includes the prefrontal cortex, the forehead, which is where your fingernails may be. Mm-hmm. And then the bottom is in reference to the more rudimentary parts of the brain. So we're thinking like your limbic system, your brainstem. And so when we do top-down approaches, this is more where we start with logic and reason and rationale to try to change the way that we feel or exist in a situation. But as you— as we've just discussed in this conversation thus far, is that sometimes this part of the brain, that logical part, gets shut down. when we're in autonomic arousal. So top-down things don't work. So people will say like, just calm down, or there's no reason to panic. And like, that's completely invalidating for the sufferer. And also it's not neurologically congruent. Like, you can't— if that part of your brain is completely offline, then you can't just will it to be back on. You have to follow these 4 steps. So the bottom-up approach Sometimes when people use the language bottom-up approach, they're talking about the bottom portions of the brain. I like to use the language you start with the body and go to the brain because I think that makes it more concrete.

Yeah, that's how I like to think about it too. Totally.

Yeah. So bottom-up would be working with the breath or touch. Hadley, you teach a lot on self-touch and self-massage and anything like smell and taste. We'll teach about that in the calming in the nervous system. But the Stimuli, that's working with the body, and that's more of a bottom-up.

Totally. I love it. Amazing. All right, let's get into number 3.

When we think about— now we've calmed the nervous system, we've calmed the amygdala, our logical brain is now back online, so you're able to think and you're able to rationalize. Now is the time to start the process of reintegrating your body and your brain. And this is particularly important if you find that You feel one way in your mind and your thoughts, but your body feels something different. Do you resonate with that, Hadlee?

Yes, it's so good. Yeah, I love that you call it reintegration because I think feeling integrated is how you kind of feel like you're in flow, like in life in general. When you feel integrated with your mind and body and your values and all that, that's how it feels. Like you can feel good. And when you're not integrated, it feels like— the word that I use is icky. It just feels like off and, and like friction. So that's, that's awesome. Yes. Tell us more about how you actually reintegrate.

So you're listening to this conversation and I want you to ask yourself these questions. These are signs that maybe you aren't integrated. And so integration being that your logical brain and your body are on the same page, that they're on board with each other as opposed to like doing their own things. And so I'm gonna ask you, there'll be a few examples that I'm gonna share with you. I wanna start with just a concrete example from my story. My life is that I was flying to San Diego to visit Hadlee recently, actually. And we hit some really bumpy air. And the thought that happened in my brain is like, oh Lord, my body is going to go into autonomic arousal. This is so annoying. And so that is an indicator of disintegration. Like my logical brain knows it's totally fine. It's just rough air. And then my body is engaging in this other pattern that's like, oh, tiger. Do we need to increase body temperature? Do we need to increase heart rate? Do we need to increase restlessness? So for me, that is a sign that my body and my brain aren't working in sync. I'm curious, what's yours?

Yeah, I had it this morning. So usually I don't have it, but I— this morning I had to get a little dental procedure done, and I have some, uh, some activation with health things, like especially in, uh, like health facilities. So like, you know, at the doctor's office or dental dentist's office, whatever. And so, you know, I'm like, I'm totally good. But I could feel my body going into— we've talked before about how my body sort of goes more into that flop or the freeze and sort of into the flop response of just like my blood pressure slows down a lot. And I could feel that happening this morning. The procedure wasn't very long, so it— and it And, you know, I was able to kind of like work my way through it, but I could totally feel that. And I was like, huh, this is so interesting that my body is doing this even though my mind is totally— it used to be that my mind would also kind of go into that place, but now my mind is in a place where it doesn't, but I can observe my body going into it. It's so fascinating.

Yeah, that kind of meta-process, like awareness Of the awareness.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

And so for those stories, you and I would each in our own unique way benefit from doing integration work in that. And maybe I will at one point integrate my experiences going to the dentist and then need to integrate the flying piece. And for you, you may rock and roll that health piece, and then something else may activate you and need reintegration. It's just all Your body is providing you opportunities to understand what needs healing and how, so that you can get healthier and more balanced and more alive over time.

I love it. I love the way that you look at symptoms in the body and in the mind and how it's all just data. It's all just there to give us information, and it's not a bad thing. We don't have to label it as bad or wrong. It's just Oh, hey body. Okay, you're, you're telling me this, so now we can do these integration practices.

So here are some signs that maybe your logical brain and body aren't working in sync. And one is that you start to notice you're maybe depersonalizing a little bit, so you don't feel like you're quite in your person, quite in your body. You're maybe— some people depersonalize so much that They feel like they're not attached to their body. Their heads may float up, their arms may float out. They may totally just leave their body and look down from somewhere else. And there's also derealization, which may be where I feel like I'm not quite in touch with the world around me. So kind of like zoning out in a fog. Some people say like, I feel like I'm behind glass. And the rest of the world's on the other side of it. And so these are signs that you're getting more— it's— we call this a default mode network takeover, where that autopilot part of the brain is shutting down your executive control, your logical parts where you have control, and you're zoning out. So that's a sign that your brain is kind of leaving the conversation. Another would be that you have less activity in the prefrontal cortex, that logical part of your brain. This is a hallmark of thought anxiety, where You might find that you're having a hard time thinking rationally, or you might get thought anxiety that is like really slow. Like, one thing that used to happen to me a lot is I would get like a couple of words like cycling in my brain over and over, or a melody, like a short melody over and over. So now you have this like almost like short circuit, if you will, in your prefrontal cortex. Another sign Number 3 is that you have hyperarousal. So Hadley, you have hypoarousal where your blood pressure was going down, your everything is starting to slow down and shut down. Hyperarousal, on the other hand, may be what I experience where my heart rate goes up, my blood pressure goes up, I start sweating, I feel hot. And the last one is increased activity in the amygdala. So if you feel like your emotions are bigger, your sensitivities are bigger, your startle response is bigger, your mood swings are bigger. Those are indicators that you're not quite in sync because you're noticing these from more of a meta-objective experience.

Wow. That— yes, I love that. And would you— so the word that comes up when you're talking about this, and I'm curious if you would call it this, is dissociation. Is that what you would call it, or are you purposefully— do you purposefully not call it that?

I would call it dissociation for sure. I like to look at the subcategories under dissociation because sometimes people will resonate more with one versus the other. And so yes, what you're saying is totally correct.

Okay, I— because yeah, I feel like a lot of times people will think that it's the, the first one that you talked about where it's like it has to be like an out-of-body experience or something, but it's not necessarily. So dissociation could be all of those things that you just, that you just described. Okay.

Yeah, it's— I like kind of think of them as like a Venn diagram, like they have some overlapping parts, but the way you experience them may be just slightly nuanced.

Totally. Yeah. And I've experienced the second one that you were talking about really resonated with me because I, when I had mold exposure a few years ago and I like was like itchy all over my body, it was like a, I was, it wasn't like I was like on top of myself looking down or anything like that, but it was very much like I'm not in my body at all. I'm totally just separate from my body. So yeah, that is, that really resonates.

Yeah, it didn't feel— I imagine it didn't feel safe to be in your body, that your body and your mind, your sense of self, maybe felt like they were at odds or at war or couldn't exist together.

Well, and the thing is too that I'm grateful for that capability too because I literally didn't feel safe in my body because I wasn't really safe in my body. And so it was an adaptive mechanism that was actually benefiting me at the time. You know, and I, I have since then worked through those health issues with the mold exposure and everything. But, but yeah, it's— these things are, are here to serve us. And, and, and sometimes they become maladaptive over time if they, if they continue doing that. So.

Absolutely. They are here to serve us and they can become maladaptive. I think I talk about the sticky factor. And so it's like you live in Alaska in the winter and you adapt by putting on a coat, and then you move to Brazil and it's very warm. And if you don't continue to adapt and that coat is sticky, it's stuck on you, you don't adapt and take off the coat, then you will suffer. You will get symptoms that are coming as a result of that, what was a wise adaptation but has become sticky and is no longer an adaptation. It's a problem. It's a symptom.

Oh my gosh, it's so good. Okay, the sticky factor. I love that. That's great.

The sticky factor is also a great way to assess progress. And so as we're healing from panic and anxiety, is that it will always be a process of 2 steps forward and 1 step back, give or take, right? And so oftentimes people will imagine that healing is very linear, like I just get better and better and better and better, and I'm totally healed. And in my clinical practice, I see it as you're gesturing it. It's like that kind of up and down, like ocean waves. But the ocean waves should be having a net uphill kind of a directionality to it. But I feel like the hardest part— so if you're listening to this conversation and you're on this journey and you were getting some results, but now you're in a setback— is I hear you. And to please stick it out, because that I've seen with my clients. If we can get over that first one step back, if we can get over that first hurdle, then you're going to be in such better shape. But that discouragement that comes from, oh my gosh, I thought I finally found it. I feel like I finally got the answer. I'm getting better. My rash is going away. My panic attacks are less frequent. I feel like I'm finally getting there. And then you start to regress and you get a setback. And it's like this despair can set in for people and they're like, oh my God, I was wrong. I'm going to give up on this. It's not working, and I would encourage you to remember the sticky factor. So as you're getting better, the stickiness will start becoming less sticky. Kind of like as you chew chewing gum over time, it just starts to disintegrate in your teeth, right? It just breaks down. So maybe you'll take your coat off for like a second and then put it back on, and then you'll take your coat off for ten seconds and then put it back on. And then you know, as you get better and better, that's. That stickiness of the adaptation will become less prominent. So stick with it, stick with it, my friend.

And when you're in that like valley, even though the valley is higher than the last valley was, because so you guys can't, if you're not watching this on video, you can't see us, but you know, we're doing kind of these like peaks and valleys, but the, but the general line of growth is always, is going up. Like if you were to look at it, you know, on average, the average line is always going up. A lot of times it doesn't feel— it feels just as bad as the first valley. Like the one that's like actually way higher up on the graph feels just as low as the last one. But when you can actually— when you can identify, when you can look back, maybe you like journal when you're in your low points so that you can look back and be like, actually, I am so much better off now than I was before. That can be really, really helpful as well. Because sometimes we think that we fixed it, and then we fell off, and it's no longer fixed, and like, oh, we actually just failed at it. But that's not at all what is happening for almost everyone. So looking back and seeing, okay, I actually am further along than I was before, and looking at that sticky factor, I think, is a great way to do it.

I love what you're describing too. In the Holistic Wellness Collective, I have the wellness roadmap, which the whole first step is setting expectations of when we think of healing the mind, the body, the nervous system, recalibrating your immune system and your hormones and your gut microbiome, and rebuilding those roads and pulling out the old ones, is that takes time. And so what are your expectations? Are you expecting that you're going to start recalibrating your nervous system and then never have a panic attack again? And is that objectively reasonable? Or I've had the opposite where patients will come see me and they've been with a clinician for 10 years and they haven't made progress. That line that's going up towards improvement has just been plateaued the whole time. And their expectations were like, I just thought that I should have to suffer the rest of my life and we're just maintaining. And so that whole first step is to really get clear on your expectations and what is doable and reasonable, and then holding your treatment protocol accountable to making sure that you're meeting your metrics. So if you are seeing a clinician or if you're doing your own self-work, is like Hadlee says, is like write down your symptoms. I always say to do it on a Likert scale, a scale of like 0 to 10, 10 being the most intense. It's never been more intense for you. 0 is it isn't a problem, doesn't exist for you at all. And then doing that at the beginning of treatment and then say, okay, within 3 months, if I was to see a 20% improvement, what would that look like? Write that down and then schedule a time to go back and reassess. And, and so if you're not making the progress that you think is expected, then that may be an indicator that there's something missing in your protocol, or maybe you need to adjust something that you're using. Like maybe it helped you with one layer of the onion, but now you're in a deeper layer and it needs to be shifted. So that was actually a really good sidebar, Hadley, and I thank you for that. That was good.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was, that was really good. I think that's gonna be a really good tangible thing for people to take away. Like, you can do this right now. Like, where are you right now? You could even do it retro, like retrospectively. Like, what, where were you before? Just to see how far you actually have come since the last time. And so you can, you know, the last episode or, or whatever, you, you could even just say like an arbitrary date, you know, maybe one month ago. Or 2 months ago or whatever it is so that you can then go forward from here.

Yeah. So let's finish up with step 4 is we'll introduce that. And then if this is an interesting conversation for you and you guys want to hear more details about these, definitely let us know in the show notes. I would love it if you wanted to buy the book because we talk about this and there's tons more detail.

Buy the book. Buy the book.

Please. That would be amazing. And so we're going to get—

we're going to get Dr. Cain on the New York Times bestseller list. This is what I'm manifesting.

I am. That would be amazing. I would so, like, be tickled. My, my soul would be on cloud nine.

Yes. Yes. So buy the book. Buy the book if you— if, if this is something that, that is resonating with you.

Which it's so resonating with me. So.

Oh my gosh.

Why not? Okay.

All right.

This is so funny. So step 4, this is all about restructuring and reorganizing your panic-producing patterns. And so I kind of touched on this just a little bit in that last sidebar. But when we go through life from arguably the moment before you were conceived, because we've seen in epigenetics and research into mice and how changes in RNA can be passed down through generations, more than 6 generations, and so you're receiving all of this data that you weren't a part of because you weren't even conceived yet. So I mean, arguably before you were conceived, but for sure from the moment of conception, your mind, your body, your nervous system, all of your other bodily systems have been making adaptations to what did or did not happen to you and those around you. And these could be for better or for worse. And so I— a lot of the language in that we use right now, we use language like trauma and triggers, but I feel like we need to— we have an opportunity to expand that language to make it a little bit more inclusive of the whole spectrum of experiences and not just like combat veterans. And yeah, so totally, we, we're seeing in neuroscience that all of these experiences, that you adapt to it. So if you have a shoe and you've been walking in these shoes and you're wearing the insoles a little bit, you're gonna hyper pronate, and then you're— it's going to affect your knees, and it's going to affect your hips, it's going to affect your back and your neck. Like, there's a whole body adaptation. The, the shoe wearing in such a way is neither good nor bad, it just is. And it's the same with all the experiences that you've had. And so these patterns have been encoded in your thoughts, in your feelings, in your behaviors, all of it. And now you have the opportunity to reprogram your life the way that you want it to be, because you have been being programmed. By your RNA, by your, your experiences, by epigenetics, by nutrition and habits and culture and marginalization and economics and climate change and all of the things, right? You have been being programmed, and now we have the opportunity to reprogram, and you can do that on yourself. And neuroscience shows us exactly how we can do that. And we also know that you can do that at any age. It used to be that people are like, oh, your brain stops growing in your early 20s, and so you're kind of stuck there.

Good luck.

They're like, good luck. And that's just not true. The brain is incredibly plastic, and there are things that we can do to increase brain plasticity. And so like that, beyond habits and strategies, Which is like Hadley's zone of genius and her group and her membership and all these things. It is that there are supplements and nutrients like brain-derived neurotrophic factor boosting supplements. There's herbs that increase brain plasticity. I'm thinking of Venus sativa or ginkgo biloba, things like that. And so you have the power to restructure, reorganize panic producing patterns so that you are no longer programmed to panic to begin with. So now that you've got your nervous system calm, you've onboarded your logical brain, you've restored that reciprocal relationship between the mind and the brain. And now from an integrated self, you can reorganize, reprogram, restructure those panic-producing patterns. And so we could totally get into a whole other conversation about how to do that. But one strategy that I like to teach about is yoga. And yoga does that in such a profound way. And I, can I just give like one example of a body position that yoga is doing that with?

Please do. Yes. This will be so helpful.

In orthopedic medicine. So I have a mentor and he teaches about how when we go into autonomic arousal, remember that's that fight, flight, freeze, our body will typically pull into a specific position. So think of like a boxer. So you're— you have a fist made, your elbows are in flexion, your elbows are bent, pulled up against your body, your shoulders are often rolled forward, your back is hunched, and your legs are straight and kind of imagine like pushing you off to run. And so when you get activated in panic or anxiety, you will go into this pattern oftentimes, and then reciprocally, If you find yourself in this pattern, it can tell your brain that you're in danger, even when, like, it wasn't there. It started with the body. It's a bottom-up process, right? Mm-hmm. And so what yoga has is this beautiful sun salutation where you do the opposite, where you extend your arms out, you put them into extension. You may extend them over your head, your hands over your head, standing tall. And then you may go into mountain pose and have your arms straight at your side, your shoulders rolled back. Chest up and your back straight. And there's even in yoga where we're bending our legs, and so we're getting into these wonderful cat-cow poses. And so our spine is being moved, it's in flexibility and mobility, our knees are bent. And so a simple vinyasa flow can be one of the ways to start reprogramming the way that your body is existing and the connections that it's making. So tell me what you think.

Oh my gosh, I love it so much because we've talked about before too, you know, when I'm thinking about a sense salutation, there's, there's, you know, kind of like the back bend and opening up like that. And then there's also the bend forward and you go back into that flexion state and then you do it again and you come back out of it. And that like it's not just forcing you to just, just open up because that can actually dysregulate your nervous system more. It's, it's having you open and then close back down and then open and then close back down. So it's just absolutely genius. And of course, the, you know, I love all things ancient Indian systems, including yoga. And so they, they were just geniuses. And I love that, that modern science is now seeing the proof of all of these things. It's so, so cool.

Yes. Yeah, it's such a great— and even like 2 minutes a day is enough to really solidify those connections. So we were talking about why it's a 90-day reset is because you want to do it 90 days consecutively. And it doesn't have to be like 90 minutes for 90 days every single day. It can be quick. It can be 30 seconds. It could be 2 minutes. And so it doesn't have to take over your life like anxiety and panic does.

Totally. Can you give us, in closing, can you give us like a 30-second little thing to do that could be something that you do like on the— for those 90 days?

Yeah. So maybe you begin your day and you start by breathing and you start by belly breathing. So maybe you're— you get out of bed, so you wake up, you interrupt that kapha energy, you get out of bed, And you sit on the floor and your knees are bent in crisscross applesauce style. Maybe your arms are in extension, your shoulders are back, and you inhale through your nose. You draw the breath down into your belly. You feel the diaphragm push down, your belly goes out. Now you've activated your vagus nerve. You've filled your body with fresh breath. You exhale out carbon dioxide. You exhale out stress. So now we've calmed the nervous system with the breath, and you could do just 6 breaths. That could be enough. And then you can think about what you're grateful for. And so that can onboard your wise and analytical mind, is to think about like, I am grateful for the sun. I am grateful for the feeling of my seat on the, the, the solid ground. I am grateful for the breath. I am grateful for getting to talk to you on this, this podcast episode today. Something that will onboard your wise mind. Maybe you journal, you wake up and you just journal. It could be anything. And so maybe you breathe 6 breaths, you write down 3 things, 6 things that you're grateful for. And then we reintegrate your mind and body. So then maybe you stand up and you do a vinyasa flow. And/or 6 sun salutations. I'm kind of vibing with this, the 6 thing here. So whatever, whatever is your like sacred number, whatever you want. So you maybe you would do a vinyasa flow, or you could even journal what you're feeling in your body. So you just like sat, you followed the breath, you're thinking about gratitude. You can even just journal what you feel in your body. Like, I feel a little bit of tension when I breathe. And so that's just noticing your body's communications, which is that process of reintegrating mind and body can be really easy. And then that process of reorganizing panic-producing patterns is that you can maybe even be intentional. Like, this is a goal that I have is I want to be— I want to have less Sunday scaries, let's say that's your goal. And so while you're doing your yoga or your sun salutation or your breathing or your journaling is you notice that sensation of worry. And then while you're doing the breathing, you breathe into that sensation and you allow your body to get into a position that produces power for you, as opposed to that feeling causing you to get into a position of panic. So I feel

like

that's, that's kind of like just a shoot from the hip.

Yeah, that sounds like a great morning routine. And it's— and it can be so quick, right? Like, it's— it can be something that you could— like, it sounds like a lot of steps, but you can do this all kind of like in your head or maybe in a journal, but make it so that it doesn't have to be such a, like, a super long process. You can make it a longer process if you want, but it doesn't have to be.

I'm thinking you could do that all in like, like block off 5 minutes. Like wake up, get outta bed, do your 5 minutes of your like getting started routine. I know Hadlee, you have a really good getting started routine that you walk people through. Mm-hmm. And it's just a matter of being intentional and doing it every day in what way feels reasonable.

Totally. And in morning routines should look different for every person. Like it should just, it should actually be something that benefits you and your body and your needs in that moment. So yeah. I love that. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing so generously about all of this stuff. You guys, there's so much more in the book, though. Like, this is such a treasure trove, and there's so, so, so much more in the book. So definitely, definitely go buy the book. I am super excited for you to read it.

Thank you so much. I'm honored. There's just so much potential in healing from panic. It's such a story of hope. You don't have to be held prisoner by this. And if you remember that, like, I really want to drive home that point that if you're in that period of regression and you feel like things aren't working, is the sticky factor is huge. And it might mean that you need a little bit more data, you might need to adjust your protocol just a little bit, or it may just be that you're in that first 90 days. And those are the hardest, that's the hardest part.

Totally, just keep going and automate that stuff. And like, it gets so much easier.

Thanks for having us.

Thank you so much for sharing and just for all of your wisdom. I'm so grateful for you. Thanks, everyone. We love you.

We love you. See you later. Bye.