#343 - Mary Katherine Backstrom | Finding Joy Where You Least Expect It

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Times, it's easy to be happy and excited and have a lot of joy, and it just comes so free. And then other days, not so much. It seems like everything around you is coming at you. So today we're going to talk about how you can get joy accessible to you. So accessible, in fact, it's a little crazy. So talking with my friend Mary Katherine Backstrom. She is the author of Crazy Joy, and check out the. Check out this title, Finding Wild happiness in the world that's Upside Down. Mary, thank you for hanging out with me, girl.

Thank you for having me. And, like, how. How real is that? I do feel like we're living in the Upside down sometimes.

Yes. Like, stranger things. Absolutely. Like, there's. Yeah.

I would not be surprised that God intended. And we're living on the other version of that.

We are. We are. Demi Gorgon's all over the place.

Everywhere.

Right. It's. It's like all the. All the. Like, corn is just, like, going to pot. And then there's this weird, like, spidery web stuff. Okay, maybe not that bad. Maybe it's not that bad.

I'm tracking with you. It is a hard world to find joy in, and that's why I wrote an entire book on it. I was like, what is something that people say about me that I want to address? So I'm kind of known for my silly videos. Like, people find me in my most unhinged moments, laughing in the camera, telling my funny stories. And so I became known as this woman that makes people laugh, and they associate joy with laughter, which is true. But I felt like I wasn't being 100% real. I was like, I feel like people are seeing the 5% of the time that I had got this unhinged laughter, and they're not seeing the underbelly of what that. What my real life is. And so this book was kind of like a confession. Like, hey, there's a lot more to me than these, like, moments of bright joy and laughter. But I still believe in joy. I still think it's accessible to everybody. And so I just. I put it all out there.

Yeah, that's so true. Because it does feel like it's so easy to kind of become, like, your surroundings. You know what I mean? Like, if you just. You just enter into the space, and the energy will kind of, like, seep into you. That's what I feel like. I love being. Working from home. I love having my own workspace, because I can kind of command that energy, you know?

Yes.

But it's just so easy to become part of the world. I mean, we're told that we're in the world but not of the world. But that's difficult when we're in the world to not become of the world because it seems like no matter where you go, there's like this, like this low energy.

Yeah. Pulls it out of you.

Yeah. Those energy vampires, you know, it's just like pulling it down.

Yeah, that's a good term. I love that.

So, so how in this world that's upside down, Tell me what's so upside down about this world?

I think, I think it's what we believe is going to make us happy. I think if I could pinpoint one thing that's truly causing us confus, it's the expectations that we hold in our hearts. So a very good example of this for me is I grew up in church and I grew up being a youth girl. I was a youth group girl. I prayed for my husband girl. I was so excited to meet my husband when I went to college. I was that.

When did you start praying for him?

Oh, like I was 13. Oh wow.

Okay. So I was nine. Hello. Here we are like little youngsters. Well, that's because I came across a romance novel and I was reading. I'm like, I kind of want this.

Seriously.

Not even lying. Oh, I don't even know. Like my parents owned a bookstore. Oh no, it wasn't a Christian one. Trust me. It was spicy.

I read spicy books now.

Oh my gosh. But here I am like a 9 year old and I like stumble. I was like in a supply closet right in my parents bookstore and I came across this spicy book and I'm like, hold up. What is this?

I need my life.

Yeah. If I can remember what that book was, I will ship it to you. As a matter of fact, I might just sell it on my store.

My current spicy book which is Acotar, a court of thorns and roses. I will have to. We'll exchange.

So we'll exchange our spicy. Yeah, but that's literally what I'm like. I kind of want this. And so I'll like at that age I'm like, I'm bringing everything to God. Like I've always brought every. I'm like, God, can I have a like hot, sexy, spicy relationship like this?

So I need to be hot, sexy, spicy. And holy would be great.

Holy would be awesome.

Like if he could play guitar, God, I'd really appreciate that because we also need that, right?

Yes, yes, yes. We need some musical talent and if he, like, played sports too. If you could make his sweat smell good instead of bad. Awesome. Thank you.

So, girl, I was obsessed with this idea of being married. And I met my husband young. We got married very young. And then I ran up against the reality of marriage. And it was my first, like, not my first, but one of many moments in life where I was like, that's it. Okay. But the expectation was the problem, not marriage. The expectation was so upside down because I thought that my husband was. Was going to step into my life, swoop me off my feet and fix everything forever. That was it. That was end game. You get married happily ever after, right? So then you get into marriage and like, finances are hard and his poop stinks and everything is awful.

Wait, your husband's poop stinks? What? Oh, honey, we gotta do something about. I'll send you some supplements with that book. We'll get that. We'll get that fixed. Okay.

Okay. Another bottle. Just send me another one. But I do feel like what's really upside down is it's not even the experiences, it's the expectations of what they're supposed to bring to our life. Right. And so really it's a matter of like recalibrating those expectations through the filter of what God is saying. This actually should be right. Marriage is not supposed to be like a complete. You are a complete person. So my husband was never intended to come in and fix all of me. That requires me doing that work. And so now I'm in therapy and I'm fixing myself. He's in therapy, he's constantly fixing himself. And our marriage is just so full. It took 16 years to get here though. And I feel like that's just one small example of what it can look like to. If you're in the world and your expectations are this, then you're going to lose joy from the get go because you're going in with the wrong expectation. So I feel like that's mostly what's upside down, is what we think we're going to. What we think is going to fulfill us. And it's almost always the opposite.

It's so true. Because when you argue with reality, you lose 100% of the time. And so instead of like the arguing, what I love to hold this energy that I can feel anything and I can work through anything. And this is all working for me. So every time you walk into a situation like that, internal. Hold on.

Sorry. You're really feeling it. If you do not make that a gift later, I will. That is so.

Oh, that will. That will be a gift later. Okay, that's so funny. But that internal thermostat, I guess, is what I would come. Like, instead of a thermometer, where we're just, like, kind of revealing what the temperature is in this world, we can be that thermostat and say, you know what? No matter what I walk into, God's still God, and he's still working it out. And. And what if I could only get to that destination by walking this path? Am I willing to walk it 100%? Like, that idea that it should be different. What happens is we should all over ourselves. And then all of a sudden, it's like. It's like, wait, wait, why? What happened? Like, why am I so.

You know what? There's this uniquely American problem, too, I feel like. And it might be modern, but I can only speak for living here, where we're dreamers, right? Like, our country is one of dreamers. We love to, like, we can achieve big things. That's the American dream, is like, do the most, get the most. And I think because we are raised with that which isn't at its core, a bad thing, it can become something else. It becomes. Everything's out there waiting to be great, and we have a very hard time. What I've realized collectively as a country, with contentment, with being in the right now, even me right now, if you were to ask me, am I happy, I'm like. The very first thing I'll tell you is, like, well, I'm heavier than I want to be. But, like, what if this body is only here for six more months? Like, we have a very hard time living in the right now as if it's all we have. And I think that's another piece of that joy journey, is learning to say, okay, I'm a big dreamer, but let me make this moment smaller. Let me be in it. Right?

Yeah.

That's what I'm trying to focus on this year is my word this year. I don't. Everybody does different things, whether they do resolutions or words or whatever. I'm working on contentment. I think contentment is a big pillar. If you're trying to build joy in your life, that's like one you've got to start with big time.

You really do. And that is 100% always accessible. Here's the problem. And I think. I mean, this is what you're talking about right here. Mary is holding this idea that my contentment lies over there. I'm on the way to my contentment. You Know.

Yeah.

And even this idea of, okay, I'm gonna work on myself till I get to that place where I'm okay is still so screwed up and backwards. Because even in that middle of working on yourself, it's still accessible.

You.

There's joy available. And saying that we're walking into joy, you. You lost it. It's already there. It's already are sufficient right now.

You're reminding me so much. My. My husband is an emergency medicine doctor. We got married in undergrad. And so I got to watch him, like, walk through the expectation of, what's it going to be like to be a doctor, what it's really like to be a doctor. And he came home one day and he just had this, like, sad face. I was, what is going on? Like, what's wrong? He goes, you know what the hardest thing is for me in the ER is people come in and I have to give them these terrible diagnoses. And almost 100% of the time, they look at me and they're like, but I just retired. Or I. I just got married or I just did this thing. It's like. But I've been waiting for this moment to live, and. And now it's being taken away and it's in it. Really. That was like, such a gut punch to me, because it wasn't the fact that they were sick. It's the fact that they realized in that moment. But I've been waiting all this time to get started living right. Yeah. And I try and keep that in mind because right now I'm a mom with two young kids.

How old are yours, my girl? I'm in my 50s. Mine are. I have seven kids. They're all like 30 to 17.

You're incredible.

I got grandbabies.

So you can relate to every part of this journey. Right? But I'm in the journey right now where it's like, I've got one that's still six, so she's still kind of babyish. And then my heart's aching because she's losing the fat in the cheeks. And then I've got one that's like, he's playing Xbox. He's like, bro this and bro that. And I'm like, the baby is gone from that one. And there's this ache to, like, want to go back or go forward. Like, what are they gonna be like here? Like, I miss what they were then.

Yeah.

But, like, I've got to snuggle up next to that little stinky nine year old and, like, love him in the bro. Phase in order to truly experience joy. As a mother, I feel like motherhood is just packed full of joy, but it's like little nuggets that are hidden in moments that look like everyday life and sometimes frustrating ones, right?

Yeah. Yeah, totally. I'll never forget the time that my second oldest daughter, now my. She's. Now she has babies of her own, right? And she was little. She was like, 11, 12. And I remember, you know, that whole phase growing up, and you're giving them baths and you're taking care, and you're helping them become independent and. And I remember I heard her in the shower and I knocked on the door. I said, hey, do you need some help? She said, no, I got it. And I remember in that moment, Mary, I said, when was the last time I washed your hair? Like, I couldn't remember. Like, when was the last time I. You know, there's that time where you're sitting inside the bathtub and they have the toys all over their plane. You're like, okay, let me wash your hair, and you rinse out the hair with the clean water. And I couldn't remember when the last time was I washed your hair. And I thought, I wish I could have remembered. I would have treasured it. I would have held it more. It would have been a sacred moment for me.

I carried her in from the car.

Right, right, right.

Time's going to be. It just stops. And I remember being so angry when I. When I was first a mother and I had some postpartum depression, and older mothers would come up to me and be like, it happened so fast. You know, enjoy it now. And I'd be like, enjoy it now. I'm covered in people. And, like, you know, it's hard because sometimes wisdom, it can feel like it falls flat, right? Like you're. Like, you're not experiencing what I'm experiencing, and therefore, I don't want to hear what you have to say. But, my God, those women were right.

They. They really are. I'm telling you, they are.

They're right. It's hard to hear it.

It's hard to hear it, but I'd rather for young moms to hear it now because. And I think that was what going through as my children were when they were young. I always would try to remember that these are the good days. Like, even in the middle of the muck and the poop and all that, they are the good days. So when the opportunity opened, I would always try to calm myself. Not that I always did it right. Not that I was always successful. I tried to remember they are my magnum opus. They are the most important thing. So I would try to keep that in mind as they were little growing up, because I always thought to myself, I would rather like the biggest price I'm going to pay is regret. So I don't want to pay that price. So I'm willing to do what I. I'm willing to have the messy house. I'm willing to have the disorganization. I'm willing to have a bit of chaos now and then because I'm not willing to pay regret.

You know what this whole conversation makes me think of? Because I'm always trying to balance this tension of being hopeful, which I think that's the note that you always strike. But also not being, like, toxically positive, like, dismissing the struggle. Right. And where does Joy fit in in that tension? Like, I'm not. I don't want to be that mom that's like, oh, it goes by so fast, you know? And I also don't want to be the mom that's like, shut up. I am over here struggling. Like, there's got to be this place in the middle where we can. Can feel what's real. And in my book, at the very last bit of it. And this is not too much of a spoiler, I can share this with you. I talk about how, like, Joy comes bubbling up and sometimes the darkest moments. And I don't know if you're a Southerner, but almost everybody has at least seen Steel Magnolias, right?

Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Yes.

You know when, like, Sally Fields is in the graveyard and Shelby is gone, and she is just walking around, and she has this panic attack where she's, like, laughing, but then she's sobbing, and then she just loses it. And her. And then somebody pushes Weezer up, and they're like, here, just hit Weezer. Just get Weezer. Yeah. And she just starts tackling. And I was like, you know what that reminds me of? It's that two different stories here. Hang with me, because this is my adhd, and it's totally how I write books. So if your listeners are listening and they're like, where is this going? Trust me, this is how the whole book is written. So just get comfy. My husband's a surfer, and he is obsessed with this story called Mavericks. It's about. It's these waves that surfers can ride, and they're. They're incredible, but they're dangerous because you can get stuck under the wash. It's like a washing machine that Holds you down. And there was this moment in the movie about Mavericks where the kid is stuck in the wash, but he knows. He knows that he's going to have to come up for one gasp of air before he's pushed back down for another, like, two minutes. Right? So that's how the cycle of these waves works. But he's been trained, so he gets. He's underneath and he's struggling, and he's, like, about to die, and then he feels himself being pushed up, and he gets up there and he takes that big gasp of air. And to me, that was almost like that moment in the graveyard. Joy is like that. It comes gasping for air in the hard times. And so for me, like, to tell people, like, look, I know Joy sounds like something that's really, really hard to get to, but it's like, you have to train for the hard times. You have to be ready to come up and gasp for air. And sometimes that looks like dark humor. Like, here, hit Weezer. Sometimes it looks like I am. Today's like, you and I were talking about this. You asked me, how are you doing? Like, before we did the podcast, I was like, you know, frankly, I'm like, that was like, a real connected moment. I needed to talk to somebody. And sometimes claiming our joy and our struggle is just like, I'm going to choose this moment to connect with you because I have a moment. I'm going to do it. I'm going to be present in this moment. And I think if I could just impart anything at all in this podcast, which. I'm sorry, I'm like, verbal vomit on you today.

No, it's good. It's good.

It's about being present. It's about, like, seeking the connection in the moments that we have right now. And they're not. They don't have to be perfect or pretty. Like, you know, we were talking about, like, oh, enjoy this. It goes by so fast. Like, the reality is they go by fast. What do they say the years are? The nights are long, but the years are short. I think we have to remember that in the long night, you know, there's still joy to be found. Because there's a reason. All these moms look back and they're like, I missed that.

Right? I'm not willing to miss it.

Huh?

I am not willing to miss it because. And that's why I think we miss it only because we have the wrong idea of what it looks like.

Yes.

You know, like, we miss it because we think, yeah, oh, I'm sitting on the sofa, and it's clean, and we're reading books, and no one has a stinky diaper. And they. And we. And we're laughing together, like, okay, that could exist. However, most likely the joy exists right in that moment with the mess on the floor, with the spilled milk, with the. With the dirt and with the chaos. Because joy and chaos, they're not enemies. They actually can get along pretty well together, you know?

Right, Absolutely.

And so in the middle of chaos, if we're waiting for the chaos to leave, for joy to step in, we're forgetting that both can sit at the table and have a great time together. Like, that can be part of it.

You nailed it. I think you nailed it. That's. Honestly, that is 100% it. It's like sitting at the table with all the things. Like, this is it.

All the things.

These are my guests. This is what I'm living with.

You know what one thought I always like to go to is, what if it could just be fun?

I love that.

Like. Like, seriously, think about everything. Think about the finance problems. Think about the. The mess. Think about the moves. Think about the teen angst. Think about the toddler, you know, turmoil. Think about all that. What if it could just be fun? What if it's a whole symphony and we have to have all the different notes in order to create this beautiful orchestra and of just fun? And are you willing for all of it?

I think the best evidence that you're. What you're saying is true is the fact that we have dark humor at all. Like, the fact that we can look sideways at a funeral and be like, this is hilarious. Like, they're telling the story about Grandma. Like, that. I'll be. I'll sit at a funeral. My great grandmother was the meanest lady you've ever met. And they sat up there talking about how she was so sweet and all these sweet moments. Everybody in the church is looking at each other like we loved her. But is this the same person? And if you can't have dark, like, dark humor, to me, that is the proof that God gave us joy. That is, like, in the face of it all, making it fun, choosing to show up.

So this is how I know you and I are cut from the same cloth.

Okay.

Are you ready for this?

I'm ready.

My great aunt. No, she. Your grandmother has nothing, nothing on her. She is the meanest person who has ever existed on this planet. So when she. When she passed away and went to be with Jesus, I think so she's. So here's the funeral, Right. And here's the pastor. She never. She didn't go to that church. She didn't show up. And so here's the pastor talking about this wonderful woman and going on to be with the Lord. And. And my daddy comes up there and he starts talking. He said, well, I'm not sure which Gladys you're talking about, but this Gladys. Everyone in the church lost it, like, laughing so hard because everyone knew she was a. She was a pill, right?

Yeah.

And so that's how I know we're cut from the same cloth.

And they loved her.

Loved her. Yes. They loved her for all the obscenities and all that, like, yelling that you're walking through her living room and loved her for it.

Yep. I was. I meet with my pastor regularly right now. You know, I go to therapy. I got. But I also go talk to my pastor because we got all these different things moving in us. Right. And I gotta fix my spirit, too. So I'm doing that. And he. We were talking about funerals, because funerals entertain me for some reason. I'm very fixated on that subject right now. And he was like, you know, it's always a bummer to me as a pastor because people will come up to me and they'll tell me the funniest stories about their loved ones, and then they immediately go, but you can't tell that at the funeral because, like, why. Why? That's. That's the story to tell at a funeral.

That's the story to tell. Absolutely. Because that's authentic and that's real. And I think that's what we're getting down to. Like your. Your book, Crazy Joy, I think it mostly speaks of authenticity, and I love that, like, there's joy right in the middle of it. So what would you. What would you say to someone right now who's like, I just. Just one last thing you could tell them is you can find joy. It is crazy. And here's one way that you can leverage that today. What is one thing they could do?

One of the wisest things I've ever read, I believe, was Eleanor. It may have been Theodore Roosevelt, but it's one of the Roosevelts. And they said, comparison is the thief of joy. So it's very hard to define joy. I've learned that I wrote a whole book, and I still can't give you one, like, two, like, word definition for it. It's just. But it's very easy to identify what the thieves of joy are. So if I was to tell you, like, one thing it would be to stop looking elsewhere, stop looking left and right, because you can build joy. I think it happens naturally. But what we have a hard time with is we, we submit to these thieves in our lives. We're like, I'm happy until I look at what so and so's marriage looks like. I'm happy until I see what this other person car is. I mean, there's a million different ways to play that game. But I would say if you want to start seeing an immediate, like, take one of the vampires of energy out of your life, take one of the joy sucks. You want to see some immediate joy growth in your life, Stop comparing your life to other people's.

I love it.

It's not the suffering Olympics. It's not the success Olympics. It's just life. And that's maybe the first thing you have to accept in that journey. Oopsie. Sorry.

I love that. No, that's totally cool. I love that so much. Mary, thank you.

So sorry that the very end there.

Well, it was. It was an energy vampire anyway, so. So I'm glad you did that.

Yes, it was.

Thank you so much for hanging out with us. And remember, guys, Crazy Joy is a brilliant book and what a brilliant author. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

Absolutely.

Bye.

Bye.