#352 - Heather MacFadyen | Right Where You Belong, Mama

All right, guys. Sometimes you just feel like you don't really know your place in the world, and that's totally okay because that's what we're going to talk about today. Just figuring out where God wants you and how to prosper there. And things are moving so fast today. What does that mean for us as women, as moms, as believers? And so super excited. We have got Heather McFadden here today. She's the author of the book Right where youe Belong. So, yeah, you know her from our podcast, Don't Mom Alone. And that is such an important concept because we do kind of feel like we're alone out there sometimes as moms. So I want to talk about this. And, Heather, thank you so much for hanging out with us today.

Thank you, Hannah, for having me. I love it. So fun.

Oh, that's so. It's so fun. But I really want to dig into this idea of kind of like finding our place in the world. Like, Jesus said to go and occupy till he comes. And I know for moms, it feels totally different. And what does that mean to occupy? Like, we can see this, this big. You know, God's given me this purpose. I'm fulfilling this purpose. But I think sometimes moms get lost in that, what that means to really fulfill your purpose. And what. How do I marry my needs with my purpose? And so what even led to you wanting to talk about this?

You know, a lot of the concept came from a tweet that helped frame this conversation for me, aligned with a conversation I had with my friend Kat Armstrong. So I'll start with the tweet.

Okay, cool.

It said that humility in the expanded Hebrew definition. Now, there's lots of Hebrew words for humility that we find right? But there's one on a VA that means to fully occupy your God given space.

Okay.

So I thought, oh, my goodness. Okay. That means it's not like thinking less of myself or we think, oh, motherhood's so humbling.

Right?

We're so embarrassed. We're, like, stripped of self. No, it's like showing all the way up in whatever space he has given you. And a friend of mine, Kat Armstrong, she came on the show, she was talking about calling, and she said, you know, women who aren't married or don't have children struggle, because sometimes the church sets up marriage and motherhood as the highest callings.

Okay.

And they feel less than when we keep talking about it like that. And she said, I like to believe that as we follow Jesus, our greatest calling is to go and make disciples. That's what he said before he left. Where we do that are our various assignments. And for. Part of my assignment in this season is to mother my four boys. But it's not all of who I am. It is not all of the space he's given me. It is a portion of the space he's given me. And I found a lot of hope and freedom and comfort because sometimes motherhood, if that was my greatest calling, is coming up real empty. I'm not feeling like I'm doing it well. And it's not fulfilling me in the way that I would hope it would fulfill me. My kids. If I'm, like, putting all my hopes and of purpose in them, they for sure aren't turning out the way I'd hoped they would. Like the product of children, trophy children that's falling short because they're human.

My goodness, I'm so glad you're real. Like, seriously, though, Heather, seriously. Because I think so many times we need to have this intrinsic, you know, this look at me flourish in my role. And it is filling everything for me. And I think that's what sometimes the church puts out. And then we as moms and as women are like, so should I not crave more? Like, is that wrong of me to. To desire something else? And then. And then comes this, like, condemnation. We. And we know there's no condemnation in Christ.

Right. So then we know where it comes from.

Right, right, right. Straight from the enemy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I really found a lot of freedom in that because I've always been someone who had a something else. Like, as someone who likes to not just achieve and check off a list like, my husband likes to. He really does like to do the dishes and laundry. Those don't fulfill me because they are. You have to do them again. They're not.

Okay. I just.

Something you finish.

My husband loves doing the dishes in the laundry. Thank you, Jesus.

I'm thrilled. I'm never complaining about this. This is fantastic news. But it does not fulfill me. I need to have a something else that I see done. And podcasts episodes became that. And unless the Internet breaks down, they're not undone. Unless, you know, I delete it. Not undone. Or, like, crochet a blanket unless someone pulls the whole thread out. I made a thing. I finished a thing. And that felt rewarding and good to me.

Yeah.

And that's not wrong.

That is not wrong.

It's not wrong. To know how you're wired. Yeah.

Okay. To know how you're wired. That's so important. And so as women, we're wired in all different ways. So this morning, and I want to hear what your thoughts around this. So this morning I was listening to a church service from Sunday. It's a church that I follow. And they were talking about the Businessmen's Conference and all the men that are gathered and all the great strategies. And I'm like, where's the business women's conference? Like, where's that?

My friend, she has that. It's called Polished. And it's for women in the workplace.

Because, okay, there you go. There you go. Promo.

There it is. But that's so true. And I honestly, I'm like, it bothers me when we as moms or women rank like the super mom, stay home and homeschool and make the pasta. And the less like the tears go down when you don't homeschool.

Depending upon where your perception way.

Yeah, either way, if you are ranking a person based on how they manage their life. And this framework to me is like, okay, for me in my relationship with God, I go to God and I say God, in this time, in this place, with my wiring and my experiences, what do you have for me? What are you inviting me to join you? Because you're already working. It's like the old experiencing God. Henry Blackabee, you're already working. Where are you asking me to join you? And how can I do that fully? And if I spend enough energy on answering those questions with God, I'm not. I'm not comparing. I'm not contrasting.

There's no range.

Not feeling less now than. I'm not putting energy onto. Hannah, I need to tell you how to live your life.

Right?

I'm busy with my own life in my own space.

You know, my space. I've got my life and you've got your opinion. And that's great. We can all coexist wonderfully.

And I, and honestly, like, it's not about, okay, guard yourself from people and shut everyone out.

Right?

We still live in community, but I don't look to you for my value and worth and identity that comes from God alone. And then I live in relationship with you and I walk through life with you. And when something pops up, like an opinion or a DM or critique and it triggers something in me, I process with God. I process with community. Why is that so triggering to me? What is that resonating with from my past that I'm believing about myself or about who God is? That is not true.

Right?

So let's work that out. Because If I don't work that out in community, that takes up space.

Yeah.

It keeps me from doing the things I'm supposed to do.

Right. And that's not humility. That is. Now we've become the center of our world, and we're looking at everything around us with this gauge, like, do I measure up or not? And so when we get, you know, opinionated with other people and, well, I think you should be doing this, or this is the best thing you could be doing, or. Or you could be doing more. You should be doing this. What we're actually saying is this is the measure I hold on myself.

And can I just say, a lot of times what I see is it's women who are dissatisfied in their space not wanting to look at what's going wrong or right in their space, and so it feels better to critique yours.

Oh, that's so. So that dissatisfaction with where you are. Or sometimes I even think this. It's like I'm dissatisfied with my space, or I'm fearful that if I step out of the space, I wouldn't have that confidence. You know what I mean? Like, it's almost like an overconfidence. Okay, I mastered this. So now everyone needs to be like me and master this.

I've got. I've got this figured out.

I got this figured out. Right. I got this figured out. And you. If you don't have it figured out, something's wrong with you. Because if something was right with you, then it might make something wrong with me.

Or. Or God's inviting us into more. He's expanding our boundaries to a place where we have to lean on him and not our efforts and not our abilities. But we have to say, oh, gosh, I feel kind of small in this space. David against Goliath, I don't like. But David had full confidence because he knew who God was and he knew the experience he'd had, even though it was terrifying everyone around him. And it was a bigger space, and it was a bigger challenge than he'd had, you know, shepherding. I think sometimes we do shrink back or we stay stagnant because it's terrifying to take that leap that might require a faith that we might fail or look foolish.

Right, right. It does require faith. And so I think about, like, Davis brothers when he got there, you know, to deliver, like, sub sandwiches to the troops or whatever.

A little lunch. Yeah, Lunchables.

Lunchables, yeah. And your Capri Suns. But when he got there to deliver this, you know, to his brothers. His brothers, because they Lacked the confidence to occupy their space. Now, they criticized him. It was a much easier move than for them to develop boldness and confidence to occupy their space. Much easier to criticize David and say, well, shouldn't you just be with your sheep right now? Like, what are you. Like, look, I'm not talking to you.

Or King Saul, who's like, okay, you're willing to do this. Let me give you what I have, right? My armor. My armor is like, no, that doesn't fit. That's not working for me. This is kind of. It literally says, like, this isn't fitting. So we think we're helping. Let's say our kids. Even we can hoop jump. If we consider our space our hoop. We can hoop jump and think, oh, I want to protect you. Here's some armor. Like, yeah, and it's ill fitting. And we're not really trusting that God is bigger and he's gonna maybe teach them something we can't teach them.

And so that a scary thought.

Terrifying.

Like, the idea that. It is terrifying that to. I need to release my children. Like, I have seven kids. They're all grown. You know, my. I only have one still at home in high school, but they're all grown. I have grandkids. But the idea that you have a space to fill, and I may not have the knowledge or the tools or the skills to pour into you. So, God, have at it.

Yeah.

Like, no, but you got to do it my way. It was so easy to think, our space. We know our space, and let me put my armor on you, and let me put my weapon in your hand, and now you can fight. It's like, that's not me.

And it's hard, especially for moms, because we start off that we share space with our littlest ones. And so it's this slow pulling back and. And letting that. My friend Nancy Houston calls it differentiation. Like, you be a whole person, I be a whole person, and we be in relationship with each other and not this enmeshed, codependent. But that's a hard process.

It's.

It's a bloodbath. It's a, like, ripping of, like, the soul is rocking out. Yes. Oh, it's awful.

What is it? Your soul is walking on the outside of your body.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, it's like, there they are, and then.

But the truth is, it's their soul. It's not even mine. But I didn't even make you, right. God made you, and you get to be your own person. But that has been in my journey of Motherhood. Probably the most excruciating thing is me letting my boys be their own people and make their own mistakes and not see it as a value statement of who I am.

Wow.

And I do think the more I lean into my space and my giftings and using my gifts to serve God, where he's assigning me to be, the easier it is because they can scoot their space and have their train wreck with grace. And I'm like, God and I, we're good. Because I didn't put my value and worth and how you turn out.

Okay. That we need to camp out on. I didn't put my value and worth on how you turn out. And that's so easy for us to. I think it's almost like. But I don't have anything else to validate me. You know what I mean? I think if we don't.

If we don't. Yeah. If we don't do the work of God. Yes, you've given me this assignment, this role for it to be a mom, but there is all of this, too, that you have for me and inviting our kids into that, because I remember seeing my mom use her gifts and talents growing up, and she even homeschooled us. Right. Which is a sacrifice, but she. She was using her gifts. I saw that happen. So it wasn't odd to me for a female to know where she's gifted and to do things whether she's paid for them or not, volunteer or, you know, you're loving your neighbor, doing the things with what you love to do. Like, I saw that modeled.

But it's harder, I think, for women who. Their value is not that. Not that it's wrong or right. Like, we're good. We're not like, putting any kind of gauge or measurement or ranking system on this. Right. That's like the first thing that's gone in this podcast.

Yes.

But the idea that pouring yourself into your children, it's almost like, how do I pull my value out of that when that is what I'm fully immersed in?

Yeah.

Like, I think that's a difficult thing is to say. How you turn out is no reflection on my value when that whole child rearing process is you.

I. I decided after talking to friends of mine who didn't grow up with moms. Maybe their mom passed away when they were little, or they, you know, maybe they, through adoption, they had a. Not their biological mom. Friends of mine who had hard stories, teen pregnancies, drug addictions. I kind of put all of their stories together and recognized that as moms, we are important, but we're not essential, that it matters. If it didn't, I wouldn't have mom ministry. If I'm like, you know what? Do whatever you want. Doesn't matter. Like your intention, your desire. I'm guessing if people are listening to this, you are already on the side of caring, loving. You intend to do a good job. The trick is believing the lie that you are essential to how your children turn out. Because my friends without biological moms.

Okay, I'm sorry. It was like.

It was a glitchy there for just a second. Yeah, it was going to.

Again for just a second. Yeah. Will you repeat that?

Yeah, yeah. Which part did you want me to start out?

That part that. Where we're like you. Yeah. Your. Your point that you're making this thing where you wiggle? No.

Oh, my gosh. So it's important, or else I wouldn't have a mom ministry. Like we matter. What we do matters, but not essential, because I have friends whose moms were not around and they still are doing what God had planned for them to do. They still have ministries and they're glorifying God. Or my friends whose moms were around poured everything in them. They had the train wreck of grace, teen pregnancy, drug addiction, and God still redeemed them and restored them.

Yeah.

Like he's doing something bigger and it's not dependent on us.

Yeah. Yeah. That's almost a hard truth though, you know?

Totally. Because we want to believe we're essential like you need.

We want to believe you will die without me or God.

God, you can't. You can't do this without me.

Right? Right.

Yeah.

And I think that's our need. Like, I think one of the biggest needs that moms have today is the need for significance. Like, that's one of the basic human needs. Right?

Yeah. Belonging and significance.

Yeah, right. Right. And so we have this huge need for significance, and we meet that through our role as moms. Saying, I am so essential, but the idea that maybe I'm not, that's like. That cuts a little bit. What about that woman? Who. Her need. Because everyone has a need for significance. It is currently being met as she occupies that role of moment. And I. I think that's beautiful, but it can also be shaky ground. You know what I mean?

I do. Because it is not healthy for you to find all your significance there when your children become adults or even middle school and teen years, because they need to be their own people and individuate then. And you're Just going to feel tension and you're going to be disappointed. As they do the normal thing, which is to go off. What is. It's Genesis, you know, leave and cleave. Right. Like, it's gross. If you're getting married, if you have a son and he's still enmeshed with his mom and married to his wife, it's like.

No. Kind of creepy.

That's not healthy.

No.

You. If you are that wife to a husband whose mom has done that, there might be bitterness there. Like, you don't want to be that person.

No.

So I think going through. I'm a big fan of therapy. Therapy to work through. Why am I needing this to be my place of significance? Can it be an addition to knowing I'm significant? Because I'm a child of the King and my inheritance is the, you know, my relationship with Jesus. Why am I not believing that to be true? Why is that not. And doing that work and inner. I'm a big fan of inner healing, prayer, too, and kind of getting to the root of that. There might be some relational hurt, some pain from a parental relationship that was lacking. And you're looking. You're turning to your kids to be that for you. And I don't think that ever turns out well.

No, it doesn't. And we can keep on deceiving ourselves and thinking it might will be the one case where it does, but it doesn't. I think, though, you're talking about I need my significance met in my relationship with God. But we have this desire for something tangible.

Yeah.

You know, I need to see evidence. And that's not. That's not wrong. That's not saying you're not, you know, believing, you know, how you're spiritual enough or it's just basically, I need to see the evidence. I need to see the manifestation here in this world, which I think is. Is that's why a lot of moms do struggle in that process of their children separating and becoming their own person. It's like, okay, what do I do now? I need to see a physical evidence. Like, okay, find your. Find your confidence in the Lord. Okay. But there's an empty bedroom.

Yeah. And I will tell you, there are needs around you outside of your kids. Or if you ask these questions about, you know, in. In the book, I go through the boundary lines of your space, and it doesn't have to be your kids. Like, there's ministry to be found in your neighborhood where your feet take you, the cashier. Your significance can come by being used by God. Where you are in a moment to moment basis that's significant is what I'm hoping people get right. Where you belong is like that belonging, that significance he is given you by giving you a body in this place in time and indwelling you with the Holy Spirit. Your position in Christ is significant.

Yes.

And that's the spiritual side. But he did say you're my hands and feet. So what are you doing with that? And if you're prioritizing all of your kids needs over being used by him and you could even flip this too and you could make serving everybody else more important than other things. I mean we. This is an individual process and exercise to communicate with God of like God, where is my significance found? Show me my purpose, show me my assignments right now and help me believe that is enough.

Wow, three words you said, Heather.

Yeah, what is that?

Moment by moment.

Moment by moment.

Yeah, like that's you. Because you talk about time, you talk about plays, the wiring, the experiences and that time, like so many, so often we as moms think I need to have all this figured out. Like I need to see the game plan. I need, I need to be like Jesus. I need to be the author and the finisher. Like I need to be the alpha and omega. You know, we want it. We want a he who began a good work in me. Well, I'll just finish it now.

Finish it. Yeah.

You know, we want to see the whole thing mapped out. But I think that those three words you said there are liberating. All I need to do is today. I remember one of my. A client I had was talking to me about, she was in AA and she said when she would go to her meetings over the back, there were two words on the back wall and they were the words just today. And that helped her so much to realize I don't have to have this whole thing figured out. Like when you're talking about operating and occupying your space and being right where you belong and being the hands and feet and the mouthpiece and, and you know, performing that great commission. All we have to do is just that moment by moment that just today I'm just going to walk into Target and I know there could be an opportunity to minister right there and like totally right there, right there in the close, you know, and we'll miss it.

If our brain is like, oh, I've got to be thinking of a non for profit. I need to start. Or I've got to think about this Instagram account. I need to start. It's like, you Just missed the invitation right in front of you. The only true space, like, truly, truly true space, is the millisecond where your two feet are, right? Like, that's the space you have control over and how you respond to it.

That is. So, guys, if you just, like, latch onto that one thing that Heather said. Because God, like, even Moses is like, all right, let's get this thing straight. So who do I tell him sent me, right? And he was giving him that. That 2 millimeter. He was giving him that secret. I am. Yeah, it's right now. You have. You don't have two seconds from now. Yeah, you have right now. I am your state, where you are, the thoughts you're holding, like, this energy. That's all you're in charge of. But you're right. We're like, well, I need to figure out this whole big launch.

Or. Or let's say, like, with Moses. A friend just shared this with me. Like, a friend who's younger than me but has kids with my kids age because she's their stepmom. But anyway, she is a mentor because she's encouraging me. She sent me a text about kids stuff I'm struggling through and, like, feeling like, oh, my gosh, did nothing stick? Like, why are you making these choices? I'm so disappointed. And she said, it's like Moses, she. She quoted. She said, it makes me laugh. God tells him, yeah, go talk to Pharaoh. Moses does. And Pharaoh makes it worse for the Israelites, right? He's like, no, now you make bricks, and I'm not going to give you any straw. And Moses is like. Goes to God and says, what's up? I thought you were going to deliver us. And she said, moses was just in the prologue, right? Like, he hasn't. There have been no plagues yet. They haven't even left Egypt. They haven't wandered the wilderness. He's just in the prologue of this whole dependency on God and what God's doing. And he's like, you didn't keep your promise. I did what I. You told me to do. I obeyed. And. And she said, with your kids, you're like, what's up? Look at all I've done. And this is what I get. She's like, your kids are in the prologue. God's just laughing like, heather, just wait. I'm not done. Story's not over.

You know, Heather, that is so powerful, right? I love that. If we could just position ourselves, like, it's just part of the story. I'm in it for the long haul. That is so powerful.

He's. He is a redeemer.

And he's never stopped being a redeemer.

No. And even I made sure there was a chapter. And this is what's so funny. I spilled green slime on my book.

Green slime. Like what? Athletic slime?

And I call it.

I thought you were, like, playing with the slime and doing your own little asmr.

It was a drink I was doing to be healthy. And it spilled. And it spilled on the chapter that's about the spaces that feel like prisons that are like, green, slimy, miserable spaces, and we're like, gosh, I don't want to be here. Because it was important for me that this isn't just all, oh, yay, this is your assignment, and it's amazing. And.

Yeah.

Oh, it could be you just got a cancer diagnosis. It could be your child passed away. I mean, hard, hard basis chapters.

Yeah.

That God has assigned you.

Yeah.

And we want to hit the escape button.

Like, yeah, I don't want to be here.

I don't want to be like that. How do I get out?

Yeah. Yeah.

How do I get out of this space? And I was really inspired by Paul and Silas, who are in a literal prison, in the inner prison, shackled, probably in their own excrement. And they're like, how do they respond? They praise because they had an audience.

Yeah.

Even in.

Even. Even in prison.

And then what was amazing to me was the wall. They knew who God was outside the space. They'd seen him deliver a girl from demonic oppression. They knew what God outside the space could do, and he did. He literally shook the walls. But they didn't escape this day. Right. Right. And they saw a soul be saved and his family souls be saved. And. And then the jailer says, go in peace. And I just think if we would trust that even in the hardest spaces, God is our deliverer. We can trust his timing. The key is, where do we fix our eyes? Where do we find our strength? What do our. What are we doing with our mouth in that place? The Israelites are in exile. Isaiah says, or Jeremiah says, pray for the welfare of that space. Are you praying for the welfare of even the terrible place you are? Yeah.

Yeah.

And.

It'S almost like we hold shame around the terrible place that we're in, and we think, well, as soon as I figure out how to get out of this man, it's going to be such a testimony. What if the testimony is right there? That's why. I think that's why it's called a Sacrifice of praise. Because it is the most counterintuitive thing you want to do in that place is to worship. Yeah, but that is why it's so powerful. That is. That is our weapon. It's our worship. It's our praise. And in that moment, we're like God. I know. I'm just seeing part of it right now. It's just part of it. I will. Everything in me wants to escape. But I know that there's going to be a going piece, that there's going to be something beyond this. If I can manage this little 2 millimeter space.

What. What do you want me to do right now with this? And. And we'll see. Over and over. You are my strength. You're my song. You're my. My friend said it's my strong song. You're my strong song. And that's where the strength comes. That's where the inner hold to make it through. Especially if you don't know when.

Yeah.

You know, Viktor Frankl wrote the book.

No One Knows When.

No. Well, he wrote a book called Man's Search for Meaning.

Right.

The psychiatrist, he's decides that he's going to put meaning to his concentration camp experience. He's going to be an observer. And he said what he noticed was those who lost their inner hold when he talked to them, it was because they didn't know when it would end.

Right.

Is it another month? Is it two more years? And like, when we're in those spaces, the waiting of like, when is this gonna end? Right. Can rob us, like you said. And like make us fix our eyes on the wrong thing. Right.

It's just. I know. And we almost like whitewash that feeling with faith. Like, I know God is my redeemer and. And this is. I'm going to get out of this. I'm going to praise my way out of. It's all focused on getting out instead of what is. What is the beauty right here? I know there's got to be something.

Yeah.

So I'm not going to miss it. I'm not. I'm here right now. I'm not going to miss it.

I just feel even that space. Space. Are you fully occupying that space in humility? Trusting God outside it.

So powerful. What, what do you want to. If you could, like, share? There's. There's probably someone listening is like, wow, you like, nailed it. Because I've been griping and complaining and I'm like talking about when I get out of this or when we finally are. I'm going to feel so good.

When this is over, when this season of parenting. Yeah.

Season is over, and this is finally, like, I'm out of this. I'm just going to feel so, so good. I'm going to feel so relieved. What would you say to that person right now before we wrap this up?

I really want, if anything, for people to know how to listen to God. I believe he still speaks. I believe he's moving all the time. And I think that there is a lack of training and teaching and practice and discipleship that looks like, hey, let me listen with you and let me sit together with you. And we're going to ask the Holy Spirit to bring to mind an answer and just, like, let go of all the distractions and the things that are pulling us away from hearing his voice. I. I just really feel passionately that if we could sit with God and he could communicate our identity and worth, a lot of these things would grow dim. Like, it's so good. I used to work with cochlear implant. Cochlear implant patients. And when we get the devices finally on, the parents would really communicate two things. One would be the child's name. Mary. Mary. And then mommy and daddy love you. Mommy and daddy love you. And I feel like our soul places. That is what God wants to communicate. Our identity and our worth, our belonging and our significance are found in that. And if we could make the time and spend the time to tune in to his voice, it changes any space we're in, whether we see it as important, whether it feels like a prison, a palace too big for us. That's what I hope.

That's so beautiful. So beautiful. Heather. It has been such a joy. I feel like we could just talk for another couple hours about this powerful concept. How can people get more of you?

Heather McFaddy and calm is my website. Or you could go to don't mom alone.com and then on Instagram, Don't Mom Alone.

Thank you so much for hanging out with us.

Thanks.

Amazing.

So fun.